Author Topic: [PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?  (Read 2180 times)

Offline Hallack

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[PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?
« on: December 31, 2013, 04:54:14 PM »
First we know that an Assassin is more than a class name.  In fact I'm pretty sure that we know that if we want to be an effective Assassin it is best not to have any of the class of that name.

And while in a mundane centric world Rogues and Ninjas make for skillful sorts we usually think of as Assassins I suspect that the Ranger would do better in that regard.

But what I have been pondering is which classes (outside god classes) would make great Assassins.  In a D&D world I can't imagine a great Assassin not having many and varied magics to assist him in his tasks.  So many of the most basic things and Assassin would need to be successful can be done by or augmented by magic. 

That said I was pondering the merits of Bard versus Magus versus Inquisitor for the role of Assassin.  I suppose that one could easily throw the Alchemist in there too but I was focusing on the first three with consideration towards what their classes, spell lists, and even archetypes bring to the table.

But for now, time to go buy some whiskey and head to get some table top time in. 

I'd welcome any thoughts while I'm gone sipping those fermented concoctions. 

Offline jameswilliamogle

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Re: [PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2013, 09:47:29 PM »
Binders and Dread Necromancers make for interesting Assassin types due to the Charisma focus and the Disguise / Bluff abilities and skills.  Cleric Assassins with Trickery domain is also a classic.

Naberius is king for penetrating an organization.
Just saw this was pf. Nevermind my numbskullery
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 10:19:57 PM by jameswilliamogle »

Offline linklord231

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Re: [PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2013, 10:58:16 PM »
I think he was looking for PF stuff.

What about a Vivisectionist Alchemist? There are several assassiny extracts, and Vivisectionists get Sneak Attack.
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Tohron

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Re: [PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2014, 12:18:02 PM »
A Conjurer Wizard could make a capable assassin - they divine out the capabilities of their target, then use specially-chosen summons (buffed with the appropriate spells) to breach their defenses and take them out.  Throw in Invisible Spell, and the summons are invisible.  Ideally, the actual assassin never gets directly involved, giving them easy deniability.
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Offline Hallack

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Re: [PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2014, 01:55:38 PM »
James, not biggie.  I started to make it a thread for both PF and 3.5 but decided to narrow it for the same of confining the parameters just a bit :)

In particular I was looking at Assassin options without being Full Caster.  As pointed out the best are probably those that can kill without even having to show up to the murder.

I was looking more for a discussion of the merits of Bard, Magus, Inquisitor, and yes the nifty Vivisectionist sorts as good Assassins that tend to be boots on the ground and do then kill themselves.


Basics:
Each of these classes have the same base 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Save chassis and they all have good to great Skill options.  In the case of the Magus that is mostly because of being Int base.

Social Skills Bards certainly come out ahead here probably with Inquisitor then Magus.  Bards have the skills and the Cha support.  Inquisitors have the skills but probably not the Cha support.  The Magus doesn't have the skills and probably dumped Cha to boot.  Smooth, a magus based Assassin probably is not :)

Spell Lists:
Bard's and Inquisitors both bring spells lists loaded with Assassiny helpful awesomeness to the party but they have the problem of having limited spells known. :(    These two spell lists are weighted with definitely different focuses but one of the biggest things that jumps out to me is the Bards greater number of mobility and travel related spells that would help with bugging out.  The Inquisitor brings some big dogs that the Bard does not though like Nondetection and it also brings more offensive and defensive buffs. 

The Magus brings loads of utility for purposes of getting in and out of a job from Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility, and gaseous form, to big dogs like Teleport.  Their list also contains plenty of sledge hammers too as you might imagine.  Perhaps the most important thing for a Magus Assassin is that they are not limited by Spells known.  They can learn their spells and prep as needed for each job.    I think a big hit on the magus list as compared to the Bard and Inquisitor is that lack of means to deal with and thwart Divinations or to charm/modify memories. 

The Alchemist has a pretty rockin list of Formulae (spells) for an assassin.  I'd not really looked it it much before. Loads of buffs, Invisibility, Fly, Gaseous Form, Nondetection, transmutations (polymorphs), and much more.  They have lots of mobility and transportation enhancing options including short range teleports.  For long range escape travel though they are locked into polymophed travel options, flight, or Shadow Walking.    The alchemist doesn't have much in the way of Make Nice (charm) but definately has some interesting and probably useful compulsions and such like Magic Jar :)  On looking I think they may have the best cross section of Assassin enabling goodies in their spell list, particularly for those not looking for a social focus.  Plus, they are not limited by Spells Known which I think is a huge boon.

Summation of some of my crazy random ponderings:
I think that each of the above could make effective Assassin themed characters.  Bards, certainly lend themselves more to the social intrigue on one end of the spectrum while Magus I think are going to be more Smack down oriented sledgehammer style Assassin.  Go figure right?  I think that the Inquisitor is somewhere between the Bard and Magus stylistically.  That is not to say that an Inquisitor can not bring the Smack.  I know they can, but their spike damage is not likely to be anything compared to what the Magus brings to bear.

For what I'm looking for though I think I may have found a winner in the Alchemist, a place I was not even looking towards as part of the discussion (thanks Linklord).  In particular the Vivisectionist I think will rock in this role.  They can sneak in (magically enhanced or not), kill by steel or by poison, and get the heck out of dodge all while having the means to thwart most magics that could be problematic.  The Alchemist just may have the best balance of tools for the job. 


Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: [PF] Assassin is as Assassin does, who's best?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2014, 04:04:29 PM »
Psicrystals fit into Tohron's idea too.


Find the target , via those skills and most Divinations.
Don't find Me , via the standard Hide + Sneak stuff, and psi Slayer PrC later.
Pshaw I'm not an Assassin, via Alter Self / Polymorph chain.
Glass Cannon delivery of Save-or-Sucks/Dies.
Conjuration does the Glass Cannon for you later.
(although obviously Conj could do this right from the start)

maybe say a Find Traps early ability, that intentionally
doesn't Spring the trap, to keep your cover.
Search but not Disable Device , kobold-esque reset trap.
Not a Face / Social rogue though.

Focused build going Feat Rogue 1 / Wizard 19 , with PF tweaks.
Your codpiece is a mimic.