Author Topic: [3.5]AC's Knight  (Read 5077 times)

Offline AfterCrescent

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[3.5]AC's Knight
« on: June 27, 2012, 10:48:33 PM »
Knight
Hit Die: d12
Alignment: Any Lawful
Important Stats: Str>Cha>Con>Int>Dex>Wis


Class skills: Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (any), Listen, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot, Swim
Skill Points Per Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Chart
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Class Abilities
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Knightly Mount
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 04:09:18 PM by AfterCrescent »
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 04:28:43 AM »
On first readthrough,the 14th level ability for Knight's path is very underwhelming at that level.  TWF effects probably shouldn't start any later than 6th honestly.  You might want to look at Agile Shield Fighter too.  The feat Improved Shield Bash is a necessary part of the archetype as well I believe and not granting it as a bonus feat seems like a bit of an oversight.

Offline Andion Isurand

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 08:37:11 AM »
A few points  to start with.

I would reduce the Knowledge skills available, perhaps just to just Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty).

I think Knight's Challenge should only affect foes with an intelligence of at least 3.
In the class table, would list the different uses of Knights Challenge in parenthesis, like what you do for Knight's Path.  Under where the abilities are explained, I would use a bullet list for the different functions of Knight's Challenge, similar to what you did for Knight's Path.

Knight's Challenge (Proclamation)
Knight's Challenge (Combat)
Knight's Challenge (Loyalty)
Knight's Challenge (Test of Mettle)
Knight's Challenge (Battle Call)

Offline AfterCrescent

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2012, 06:51:37 PM »
On first readthrough,the 14th level ability for Knight's path is very underwhelming at that level.  TWF effects probably shouldn't start any later than 6th honestly.  You might want to look at Agile Shield Fighter too.  The feat Improved Shield Bash is a necessary part of the archetype as well I believe and not granting it as a bonus feat seems like a bit of an oversight.

The Knight's Path ability at 14th level is a little weak, but I'm not sure what to do in its place.

It is worth it to note that it grants the entire TWF tree, so you get all 3 offhand attacks for free at a flat -2, which, if I'm reading it correctly, is what Agile Shield Fighter does.  So, effectively 4 feats at 14th level...  Improved Shield Bash not being granted is not an oversight. The class can't do everything for you, though. ;P

The class is a bit front-loaded with abilities, though, so I'm not sure what to remove or move down if we're going to move Shielded Combatant up to an earlier level. Ideas?

A few points  to start with.

I would reduce the Knowledge skills available, perhaps just to just Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty).

I think Knight's Challenge should only affect foes with an intelligence of at least 3.
In the class table, would list the different uses of Knights Challenge in parenthesis, like what you do for Knight's Path.  Under where the abilities are explained, I would use a bullet list for the different functions of Knight's Challenge, similar to what you did for Knight's Path.

Knight's Challenge (Proclamation)
Knight's Challenge (Combat)
Knight's Challenge (Loyalty)
Knight's Challenge (Test of Mettle)
Knight's Challenge (Battle Call)
Medieval knights were incredibly well educated. That's really the flavor I was going for with this class, so I kept the manners and education as strong as I could, hence the knowledge skills. You are welcome to change it in your campaign, but I think it fits and doesn't imbalance the class.

I think I had the Int 3 discussion with someone else before. It comes down to the fact that the Challenges don't affect the enemy (save for one), they boost the Knight. And the one with a save is totally something that an enemy doesn't need human intelligence to be affected by. If a Knight makes the most noise, or appears to be the biggest danger to an animal or vermin, that's who the creature will attack.

That's a great idea for formatting the Knight's Challenge uses. Don't know why it didn't occur to me before  :facepalm Thanks. :)
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 07:06:30 PM »

The Knight's Path ability at 14th level is a little weak, but I'm not sure what to do in its place.

It is worth it to note that it grants the entire TWF tree, so you get all 3 offhand attacks for free at a flat -2, which, if I'm reading it correctly, is what Agile Shield Fighter does.  So, effectively 4 feats at 14th level...  Improved Shield Bash not being granted is not an oversight. The class can't do everything for you, though. ;P

The class is a bit front-loaded with abilities, though, so I'm not sure what to remove or move down if we're going to move Shielded Combatant up to an earlier level. Ideas?

Granting the entire TWF line at 14 may not be the best idea.  It sounds like you could swap one of the beefier early level abilities for TWF/ASF, and then every few levels give the next step, if only for shields.  That way it's a gradual power increase as opposed to getting to 14th level and suddenly getting an extra three attacks.

I mentioned Improved Shield Bash because it just seems weird not to let the knight keep the shield's AC when he attacks with the shield, especially when you're pushing for him to make shield attacks.  If you don't put it in as a class feature, it's essentially going to be a feat tax somewhat akin to Natural Spell for druids.

Offline AfterCrescent

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 12:35:00 AM »
Added Improved Shield Bash. You're right Jack, it's basically required and not a huge feat. No point in taxing.

I moved some abilities in Knight's Path around to bring TWF in sooner and scale it.  Thoughts on the changes?

Summarized below for your convenience:
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Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie

Offline Garryl

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 08:57:12 AM »
  • Upon reaching 8th level, as long as Knight fights with a shield in his off hand, he may make one additional off-hand attack during a full attack for each attack he makes with his main hand.  When performing a full attack with a main hand weapon and a shield, a Knight takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, regardless of if the shield is light of heavy.  The Knight's mount gains a 20' circumstance bonus to its move speed.
You may wish to modify the wording of this. The current wording may have a number of unintended effects.
a) As written, the -2 penalty on attack rolls applies on all sword and board full attacks (unless you use your shield as the main hand weapon, I guess), even if you don't take advantage of the extra attacks.
b) Unlike TWF, ITWF, and GTWF, the extra off-hand attacks are at full attack bonus (excluding the -2 penalty on all attacks).
c) Much like Flurry of Blows, the extra attacks stack with TWF (although so would the attack roll penalty, but -2 isn't that much).
d) If you have a non-shield weapon in your off hand in addition to a shield (probably either a buckler so you can hold a weapon or armor spikes so you don't need a hand for your off-hand attacks), you can use that for your attacks rather than your shield.

Offline AfterCrescent

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 04:08:37 PM »
Fixed it to address the issues you pointed out, Garryl. Let me know if there's some other error I'm missing.
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie

Offline Garryl

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 04:29:05 PM »
It still stacks with TWF if you have it, btw. If you don't want that, just say "This ability cannot be combined with the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack."

Offline AfterCrescent

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2012, 04:37:03 PM »
I'm not seeing that. The class says the ability acts as the TWF tree, so they wouldn't stack.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [3.5]AC's Knight
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 04:44:32 PM »
No, it says it acts similar to the TWF tree. Regardless, the TWF feat tree is relatively unimportant, since all it does is modify the benefits you get from performing a Two-Weapon Fighting special attack as part of your full attack (lower penalties, more attacks, etc.). You aren't actually using Two-Weapon Fighting there.