[3.P] Who wants to be cursed and hopeless?

[SolEiji]

Aaahhh and I'm back.  Oh man I needed that nap baaaaad.

Might I be able to sneak in with a Sniper? I didn't really see you mention anything about homebrew, other than your D&DWiki stuff. (Incredibly, I still haven't played one, since the other games I've tried to use it in have all been DOA...)

Homebrew is "on approval" (as is my own stuff, after all while I love it all a BFG 9000 probably isn't approved for use).  So, let's check out this Sniper class.  Analyzing...

(click to show/hide)

Aim looks to be powerful, two stats to attack!  However in practice I'm thinking this to be a +2-+7 bonus which, while quite beefy, is mitigated by medium BAB.  Given the name of the class, accuracy seems to be the order of the day.  That damage boost though... d4s aren't huge, but I'm wary of XdX/level abilities you can deal more than once per round, which is what happens when you hit higher BABs.

Precise Shot... Trackless Step... No AoO for firing in melee, nice nice...

Light Step has a few nice utility powers effectively at will.  I can't imagine any situation you'd need multiple Spider Climbs for on a per encounter basis.  Likewise Fly, it's effectively Fly at will at 14th.  I wonder if the creator is aware... oh, you're the creator.  Makes sense.  Well, it looks like you can spread it to allies too, which helps consume uses, but still ends up being effectively at will.  Fly at will for an entire party?  I'll think about it.

Rangefinder, if I read it correctly, means you can literally shoot the moon at a -NI penalty to hit, since you do still have range increments.  Then at 16th level you get the amusing epic feat effect where you can somehow shoot an arrow to Alpha Centuri in 6 seconds.

Trick Shot, I'll get back to these.  Looks like a series of gimmick powers.

Keen Perception is eventually +10 Perception checks, makes sense.

Practiced Shooter is a good money-saving technique.

Fast Aim, standard action huh?  Alright.. Improved Snipe... Darkstalker...

Wis to Stealth.  Sometime tells me this class loves Wisdom. 

Greater Snipe leads to situation of invisible distant foes pinging away at people, with said people being likely unaware where it's coming from.  The sniper's sure to have optimized Stealth (and has Wis to buff it as well) while the same is not certain of opponents.  Thematic, maybe not fair.

Hide in plain sight... veteran shooter...

An attack as a move action?  What an unusual thing.

Superior Snipe, Mighty Aim...

Attacks as immediate actions, spellcasters shutter in fear at using concentration against base damage + 17d8 every time they cast something at any range.

Fire All gets amusing if you have someone with a well optimized perception or other extrasensory senses (it seems, even scrying) with arrows flying across the universe to smite everyone Majin Buu style.

And level 20 is a save or die.

------

My final analysis is that while the class is good (though possibly subject to unintended consequences) it's too strong for this level of game.  Its in that uncomfortable area of not being as versatile as your spellcaster, but still being absurdly good with your one trick pony to the point where I find it difficult to find appropriate counters.  So sorry, class is denied, but don't think of it as a criticism of your class making.  I quite enjoyed it.

[FireInTheSky]

Aaahhh and I'm back.  Oh man I needed that nap baaaaad.

Might I be able to sneak in with a Sniper? I didn't really see you mention anything about homebrew, other than your D&DWiki stuff. (Incredibly, I still haven't played one, since the other games I've tried to use it in have all been DOA...)

Homebrew is "on approval" (as is my own stuff, after all while I love it all a BFG 9000 probably isn't approved for use).  So, let's check out this Sniper class.  Analyzing...

(click to show/hide)

Aim looks to be powerful, two stats to attack!  However in practice I'm thinking this to be a +2-+7 bonus which, while quite beefy, is mitigated by medium BAB.  Given the name of the class, accuracy seems to be the order of the day.  That damage boost though... d4s aren't huge, but I'm wary of XdX/level abilities you can deal more than once per round, which is what happens when you hit higher BABs.

Precise Shot... Trackless Step... No AoO for firing in melee, nice nice...

Light Step has a few nice utility powers effectively at will.  I can't imagine any situation you'd need multiple Spider Climbs for on a per encounter basis.  Likewise Fly, it's effectively Fly at will at 14th.  I wonder if the creator is aware... oh, you're the creator.  Makes sense.  Well, it looks like you can spread it to allies too, which helps consume uses, but still ends up being effectively at will.  Fly at will for an entire party?  I'll think about it.

Rangefinder, if I read it correctly, means you can literally shoot the moon at a -NI penalty to hit, since you do still have range increments.  Then at 16th level you get the amusing epic feat effect where you can somehow shoot an arrow to Alpha Centuri in 6 seconds.

Trick Shot, I'll get back to these.  Looks like a series of gimmick powers.

Keen Perception is eventually +10 Perception checks, makes sense.

Practiced Shooter is a good money-saving technique.

Fast Aim, standard action huh?  Alright.. Improved Snipe... Darkstalker...

Wis to Stealth.  Sometime tells me this class loves Wisdom. 

Greater Snipe leads to situation of invisible distant foes pinging away at people, with said people being likely unaware where it's coming from.  The sniper's sure to have optimized Stealth (and has Wis to buff it as well) while the same is not certain of opponents.  Thematic, maybe not fair.

Hide in plain sight... veteran shooter...

An attack as a move action?  What an unusual thing.

Superior Snipe, Mighty Aim...

Attacks as immediate actions, spellcasters shutter in fear at using concentration against base damage + 17d8 every time they cast something at any range.

Fire All gets amusing if you have someone with a well optimized perception or other extrasensory senses (it seems, even scrying) with arrows flying across the universe to smite everyone Majin Buu style.

And level 20 is a save or die.

------

My final analysis is that while the class is good (though possibly subject to unintended consequences) it's too strong for this level of game.  Its in that uncomfortable area of not being as versatile as your spellcaster, but still being absurdly good with your one trick pony to the point where I find it difficult to find appropriate counters.  So sorry, class is denied, but don't think of it as a criticism of your class making.  I quite enjoyed it.

(click to show/hide)

Well, the simplest nerf - one I've been thinking about implementing on and off for a little while now anyway - is to make the aim damage 1dx/2 levels (rounded up), which brings it into line with Warlock what a Warlock should be.

Another easy one is to make the Light Step abilities all 1/encounter, or maybe 1/5level/encounter.

-------

Would those two tweaks do it?

Also, the "cursed" fluff reminds me of Elantris.

[SolEiji]

Aaahhh and I'm back.  Oh man I needed that nap baaaaad.

Might I be able to sneak in with a Sniper? I didn't really see you mention anything about homebrew, other than your D&DWiki stuff. (Incredibly, I still haven't played one, since the other games I've tried to use it in have all been DOA...)

Homebrew is "on approval" (as is my own stuff, after all while I love it all a BFG 9000 probably isn't approved for use).  So, let's check out this Sniper class.  Analyzing...

(click to show/hide)

Aim looks to be powerful, two stats to attack!  However in practice I'm thinking this to be a +2-+7 bonus which, while quite beefy, is mitigated by medium BAB.  Given the name of the class, accuracy seems to be the order of the day.  That damage boost though... d4s aren't huge, but I'm wary of XdX/level abilities you can deal more than once per round, which is what happens when you hit higher BABs.

Precise Shot... Trackless Step... No AoO for firing in melee, nice nice...

Light Step has a few nice utility powers effectively at will.  I can't imagine any situation you'd need multiple Spider Climbs for on a per encounter basis.  Likewise Fly, it's effectively Fly at will at 14th.  I wonder if the creator is aware... oh, you're the creator.  Makes sense.  Well, it looks like you can spread it to allies too, which helps consume uses, but still ends up being effectively at will.  Fly at will for an entire party?  I'll think about it.

Rangefinder, if I read it correctly, means you can literally shoot the moon at a -NI penalty to hit, since you do still have range increments.  Then at 16th level you get the amusing epic feat effect where you can somehow shoot an arrow to Alpha Centuri in 6 seconds.

Trick Shot, I'll get back to these.  Looks like a series of gimmick powers.

Keen Perception is eventually +10 Perception checks, makes sense.

Practiced Shooter is a good money-saving technique.

Fast Aim, standard action huh?  Alright.. Improved Snipe... Darkstalker...

Wis to Stealth.  Sometime tells me this class loves Wisdom. 

Greater Snipe leads to situation of invisible distant foes pinging away at people, with said people being likely unaware where it's coming from.  The sniper's sure to have optimized Stealth (and has Wis to buff it as well) while the same is not certain of opponents.  Thematic, maybe not fair.

Hide in plain sight... veteran shooter...

An attack as a move action?  What an unusual thing.

Superior Snipe, Mighty Aim...

Attacks as immediate actions, spellcasters shutter in fear at using concentration against base damage + 17d8 every time they cast something at any range.

Fire All gets amusing if you have someone with a well optimized perception or other extrasensory senses (it seems, even scrying) with arrows flying across the universe to smite everyone Majin Buu style.

And level 20 is a save or die.

------

My final analysis is that while the class is good (though possibly subject to unintended consequences) it's too strong for this level of game.  Its in that uncomfortable area of not being as versatile as your spellcaster, but still being absurdly good with your one trick pony to the point where I find it difficult to find appropriate counters.  So sorry, class is denied, but don't think of it as a criticism of your class making.  I quite enjoyed it.

(click to show/hide)

Well, the simplest nerf - one I've been thinking about implementing on and off for a little while now anyway - is to make the aim damage 1dx/2 levels (rounded up), which brings it into line with Warlock what a Warlock should be.

Another easy one is to make the Light Step abilities all 1/encounter, or maybe 1/5level/encounter.

-------

Would those two tweaks do it?

Also, the "cursed" fluff reminds me of Elantris.

The problem really stems from the encounter thing more than how many times it can be used.  Mind you I am a fan of per encounter mechanics, and its excellent for things you want almost at will but not quite, like many a maneuver.  They work best with things of short duration such as instant or 1 round effects, but things get odd with longer duration effects like Fly.  Namely that by the time the effect's duration expires, your per encounter has refreshed already.  So it becomes effectively at will.

As for the damage reduction... *Crunches numbers* with medium BAB it drops potential damage from 60d8 to 30d8 at 20th (I know we're not likely to hit there, but this is still thought exercises).  30d8 is average of 135 damage, and less if not everything hits, which seems to work out for me.  I'm ok with that.

Maybe make the encounter things daily, but keep a fairly high number of them?    It probably will only involve resource management at lower levels when you first get your various abilities before becoming irrelevant, but it'll be there.  If we figure that out, sure, I think we could run a Sniper.

Hopefully Prime will see my board request soon so I can make an official character sheet thread, among other things.    Since this is my first time, what IS the usual method of handling combat on these forums?  Maps or no?  Separate threads or no?  I aim to please.

I'll also be making more fluff dumps as character details come flowing through, and I'm here to answer questions as well.

[Raineh Daze]

It varies on a GM to GM basis.

[phaedrusxy]

I'm thinking of playing a Vitalist, but I want to be more than a walking bandaid. So looking for offensive/debuffing/CC options.

Maybe a (homebrewed/houseruled) Reserve feat?

[FireInTheSky]

The problem really stems from the encounter thing more than how many times it can be used.  Mind you I am a fan of per encounter mechanics, and its excellent for things you want almost at will but not quite, like many a maneuver.  They work best with things of short duration such as instant or 1 round effects, but things get odd with longer duration effects like Fly.  Namely that by the time the effect's duration expires, your per encounter has refreshed already.  So it becomes effectively at will.

As for the damage reduction... *Crunches numbers* with medium BAB it drops potential damage from 60d8 to 30d8 at 20th (I know we're not likely to hit there, but this is still thought exercises).  30d8 is average of 135 damage, and less if not everything hits, which seems to work out for me.  I'm ok with that.

Maybe make the encounter things daily, but keep a fairly high number of them?    It probably will only involve resource management at lower levels when you first get your various abilities before becoming irrelevant, but it'll be there.  If we figure that out, sure, I think we could run a Sniper.

Sweet! I made the changes to the class itself (rather than just playing it that way here, since, as I said, I've kinda been feeling a change was needed anyway). Aim damage is now 1dx/2 levels, and the Light Step uses are /day (Spider Climb = level, Water Walk = 1/2 level, Fly = 1/3 level).


So, was a decision made between 2nd or 3rd level?

[SolEiji]

The problem really stems from the encounter thing more than how many times it can be used.  Mind you I am a fan of per encounter mechanics, and its excellent for things you want almost at will but not quite, like many a maneuver.  They work best with things of short duration such as instant or 1 round effects, but things get odd with longer duration effects like Fly.  Namely that by the time the effect's duration expires, your per encounter has refreshed already.  So it becomes effectively at will.

As for the damage reduction... *Crunches numbers* with medium BAB it drops potential damage from 60d8 to 30d8 at 20th (I know we're not likely to hit there, but this is still thought exercises).  30d8 is average of 135 damage, and less if not everything hits, which seems to work out for me.  I'm ok with that.

Maybe make the encounter things daily, but keep a fairly high number of them?    It probably will only involve resource management at lower levels when you first get your various abilities before becoming irrelevant, but it'll be there.  If we figure that out, sure, I think we could run a Sniper.

Sweet! I made the changes to the class itself (rather than just playing it that way here, since, as I said, I've kinda been feeling a change was needed anyway). Aim damage is now 1dx/2 levels, and the Light Step uses are /day (Spider Climb = level, Water Walk = 1/2 level, Fly = 1/3 level).


So, was a decision made between 2nd or 3rd level?

Welcome aboard Sniper.    Got any background bubbling up?

[SolEiji]

Ahh I'm feeling kind.  We shall do level 3.  I can still work my evil with that.   

[Raineh Daze]

Meanwhile, I have an appearance. :O

[phaedrusxy]

Will anyone have any at will healing at all (regeneration/fast healing included)? If so, my Vitalist can spread that out so that we all can basically free-ride on it. This seems like a very cool class, much like the Society Mind from the original DSP work, but with a focus specifically on healing/life energy.

Edit: Maybe I should just take the Troll-Blooded feat, and constantly slather myself in that alchemical item that protects from sunlight?

[FireInTheSky]

What do you think about playing a Grippli from the swamps of Alaozar?

[Raineh Daze]

What do you think about playing a Grippli from the swamps of Alaozar?

... a toad?

[FireInTheSky]

What do you think about playing a Grippli from the swamps of Alaozar?

... a toad?

Explains why he likes to stay hidden...

[Raineh Daze]

But... why do you want to play a toad?

[phaedrusxy]

I'm thinking of playing a samsaran with the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait (assuming it can be used for psionics) to add a few spells from the psion/wilder list to the Vitalist list. Sound OK?

[FireInTheSky]

Another possibility I was considering was also Samsaran, maybe from Taphos, with their ancestor worship. Perhaps phae and I know each other?

[FlaminCows]

I was thinking of playing a Tibbit, from the Dragon Compendium. An arcane spellcaster of some some sort, with the Obtain Familiar feat as my third-level choice. A cat with a house cat familiar. Then use a whole lot of stuff from this article for me and my familiar.

[phaedrusxy]

Another possibility I was considering was also Samsaran, maybe from Taphos, with their ancestor worship. Perhaps phae and I know each other?

It's such an odd race... I read the srd entry, but I'm stil not sure how they're born... Are they born to human parents? It says they themselves have human children...

[FireInTheSky]

Another possibility I was considering was also Samsaran, maybe from Taphos, with their ancestor worship. Perhaps phae and I know each other?

It's such an odd race... I read the srd entry, but I'm stil not sure how they're born... Are they born to human parents? It says they themselves have human children...

It says that their human children sometimes reincarnate as Samsaran, but if no "new" samsarans are born except through this way, you would think that, eventually, the race would die out.

[SolEiji]

But... why do you want to play a toad?

Because Giant Frog of course, how else would be Giant Frog the Giant Fog pre-requisites?

I'm thinking of playing a samsaran with the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait (assuming it can be used for psionics) to add a few spells from the psion/wilder list to the Vitalist list. Sound OK?

Looks legit.

I was thinking of playing a Tibbit, from the Dragon Compendium. An arcane spellcaster of some some sort, with the Obtain Familiar feat as my third-level choice. A cat with a house cat familiar. Then use a whole lot of stuff from this article for me and my familiar.

Ah, its the Dread Nekomancer!  Surely on a path to try and turn into A Kitten That Walks.

Another possibility I was considering was also Samsaran, maybe from Taphos, with their ancestor worship. Perhaps phae and I know each other?

It's such an odd race... I read the srd entry, but I'm stil not sure how they're born... Are they born to human parents? It says they themselves have human children...

It says that their human children sometimes reincarnate as Samsaran, but if no "new" samsarans are born except through this way, you would think that, eventually, the race would die out.

It sounds like Samaran rarely perma-die, and also are rarely born, so it probably evens out.  Samsaran always struck me as Time Lords, regenerating in a blast of light.  Clearly favored class Doctor.