Author Topic: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting  (Read 200166 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #900 on: March 12, 2016, 08:07:42 PM »
That was almost three years ago. I'm shocked you remembered, I sure didn't.  :blush

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #901 on: March 12, 2016, 08:33:22 PM »
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Thanks for the repost. However it says that to get the speak with soul effect, you need at least the head/skull, and all Mao has now is a leg and some pools of blood. So Mao herself should know that the chances of this working were pretty slim.
Oh yes, with the lack of a head/central core thing it wouldn't work using the body so she was thinking that part of her soul lingered a bit behind where she died and she could speak with that.
Speaking of souls, with the lack of a known heaven/hell/similar, what actually happens to people's souls when they die? If souls are even a thing in that setting, that is.

Souls are a thing, and actually one of the highest arts of crafting consists of binding the souls of powerful monsters to items (exact mechanics pending for now though). Binding of humanoid souls however is usually highly forbidden. That doesn't stop cultists and less scrupulous organizations/nations from doing so though, like the Helsiana family.
 
"Free" souls usually end up drifting around in space, losing sentience and form until they become more background noise than anything else. Ones with particularly strong grudges may become ghosts or nastier.

Speaking of, I know Ritual Sacrifice is pretty broken but is it available for use? We're this late into the game so I have no way of hitting DC 30 but it'd be nice to use Planar Ally at some point.

I'll say no, both because it is borked and also because it doesn't really fit the setting, that with the lack of gods, and one thing that Dark Force never demanded were ritual sacrifices (it usually prefers good evil old fashioned murderizing).
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 08:35:05 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #902 on: March 12, 2016, 09:18:14 PM »
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That was almost three years ago. I'm shocked you remembered, I sure didn't.  :blush
Yeah, the long term memory is nice though it's mostly for useless stuff, like in this case. My short term memory is awful though. Guess I can thank my Asperger for it. >_>

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"Free" souls usually end up drifting around in space, losing sentience and form until they become more background noise than anything else. Ones with particularly strong grudges may become ghosts or nastier.
Got it! Is there a standard time span throughout which this happens? Maybe affected by the will of the fallen, with particularly strong souls lasting longer.
Also, does this affect the notion of the souls having to be willing to be resurrected? Especially once they lose sentience (and perhaps because there isn't much else to look forward to after death).

Oh, since they are great material for crafting purposes, they likely contain a lot of some kind of energy or other. Considering the amount the universe may contain may be finite (unless this is a renewable resource with infinite supplies, as long as you can generate life), does the process involve reincarnation? (soul-stuff being recycled by the universe for new life)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 09:33:37 PM by Anomander »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #903 on: March 13, 2016, 12:37:18 AM »
Souls are a thing, and actually one of the highest arts of crafting consists of binding the souls of powerful monsters to items (exact mechanics pending for now though).
Official content has you covered.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #904 on: March 13, 2016, 01:52:35 AM »
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"Free" souls usually end up drifting around in space, losing sentience and form until they become more background noise than anything else. Ones with particularly strong grudges may become ghosts or nastier.
Got it! Is there a standard time span throughout which this happens? Maybe affected by the will of the fallen, with particularly strong souls lasting longer.
Yeah, although exact precise numbers are still being debated.

Also, does this affect the notion of the souls having to be willing to be resurrected? Especially once they lose sentience (and perhaps because there isn't much else to look forward to after death).
Whatever research was conducted on that matter, the conclusions were that some souls do grieve their deaths and would love a second chance, however most quickly just stop caring, feeling "released" for not having to worry about the many sufferings of life anymore, feeling content just to travel freely through space and watch events unfold. Seems related to the fact that you no longer have a body producing hormones motivating you to do stuff. That's also why even the souls of vicious cruel monsters can be "tamed" into powerful items.

Once they lose sentience, they're basically gone forever.

Oh, since they are great material for crafting purposes, they likely contain a lot of some kind of energy or other. Considering the amount the universe may contain may be finite (unless this is a renewable resource with infinite supplies, as long as you can generate life), does the process involve reincarnation? (soul-stuff being recycled by the universe for new life)
As far as the studies go, soul energy is highly refined energy, but still energy, when decomposed it's the same as that radiated from stars. There is some degree of recycling, but it's no more reincarnation than plant->herbivore-> carnivore->poop->soil->new plant.

After all, there are artificial life forms being created like newtypes and whatnot, and sentient populations do grow as long as there's raw resources to sustain them. If there was always a limited amount of "life energy", where was it when the planets were just lifeless rocks?

Souls are a thing, and actually one of the highest arts of crafting consists of binding the souls of powerful monsters to items (exact mechanics pending for now though).
Official content has you covered.
Well, that's a bit too high level. Soul items shoud be available considerably earlier than when you get 8th level spells.

Also to be clear, it's not as much that you're using the soul as a resource for crafting, but that you're binding the soul to an item to gain some of the properties of the original owner. Like a brutish monster may improve an item to make you stronger/tougher, while the soul of a more mystic monster may result in an item that enhances your mental capacities.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #905 on: March 13, 2016, 03:53:33 PM »
Very well thought!

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As far as the studies go, soul energy is highly refined energy, but still energy, when decomposed it's the same as that radiated from stars. There is some degree of recycling, but it's no more reincarnation than plant->herbivore-> carnivore->poop->soil->new plant.
All right, so a soul energy cycle. You mentioned dark/light energy. Maybe they just share the name but does Dark Energy have any relation what we currently refer to dark energy? Mostly to get an idea of how it manifests in nature in that universe.
As for light energy... something like actually heat/light from the stars? I mean to ask, since the energy that composes souls when decomposed are the same as the kind radiated from stars, is there a link between them? If so its kind of poetic.

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After all, there are artificial life forms being created like newtypes and whatnot, and sentient populations do grow as long as there's raw resources to sustain them. If there was always a limited amount of "life energy", where was it when the planets were just lifeless rocks?
It could have been in-potentia like everything else. Such as the creation of stars. Its there in one form of another, waiting for the right conditions for emergence, but the stuff that allows it to be is limited by whats available for the universe to work with.
It'd be a bit weird to have soul energy popping in out of nowhere, increasing constantly the amount of energy present in the universe. A natural process could generate the soul in living organisms, using ingredients available to it. If there is not enough of those ingredients required for a soul to be generate (or sustained, as would be the case when the living organism dies and loses whatever thingy it had that served to sustain the soul), then soul starvation occurs and you get soulless living organisms.

It could be something linked to energy leaking in from other dimensions, in which case it would seem infinite but wouldn't be since it would soul-starve those other dimensions eventually in which case Dark Force could be part of a "natural process" or something engineered to channel light energy excesses in the world back to another dimension.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:56:23 PM by Anomander »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #906 on: March 13, 2016, 04:47:05 PM »
Given that the PS universe was originally fantasy, I don't think the dark energy would have a relation.

Probably negative energy.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #907 on: March 14, 2016, 02:35:47 AM »
Sounds possible. Though with Dark Energy being such a puzzler it could be the same the one as well.

@Osle: Oh, since clones are copies, does a clone get a copy of the soul as well? Or maybe it is soulless and the soul goes back to it if the original is dead?
That or they share the original soul with all the other copies/original, which could explain their instant hostility to each other as the soul's potential main bodies go Highlander?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 02:37:32 AM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #908 on: March 14, 2016, 03:10:54 AM »
Very well thought!
Thanks!

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As far as the studies go, soul energy is highly refined energy, but still energy, when decomposed it's the same as that radiated from stars. There is some degree of recycling, but it's no more reincarnation than plant->herbivore-> carnivore->poop->soil->new plant.
All right, so a soul energy cycle. You mentioned dark/light energy. Maybe they just share the name but does Dark Energy have any relation what we currently refer to dark energy? Mostly to get an idea of how it manifests in nature in that universe.
As for light energy... something like actually heat/light from the stars? I mean to ask, since the energy that composes souls when decomposed are the same as the kind radiated from stars, is there a link between them? If so its kind of poetic.
Dark energy would be negative energy, anti-(most)life and stuff, not "really hard to see energy". Darker monsters thrive in Dark energy though.

Which in turn would mean that yes light energy would be positive energy that's also what's radiated by the sun and stars.

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After all, there are artificial life forms being created like newtypes and whatnot, and sentient populations do grow as long as there's raw resources to sustain them. If there was always a limited amount of "life energy", where was it when the planets were just lifeless rocks?
It could have been in-potentia like everything else. Such as the creation of stars. Its there in one form of another, waiting for the right conditions for emergence, but the stuff that allows it to be is limited by whats available for the universe to work with.
It'd be a bit weird to have soul energy popping in out of nowhere, increasing constantly the amount of energy present in the universe. A natural process could generate the soul in living organisms, using ingredients available to it. If there is not enough of those ingredients required for a soul to be generate (or sustained, as would be the case when the living organism dies and loses whatever thingy it had that served to sustain the soul), then soul starvation occurs and you get soulless living organisms.

It could be something linked to energy leaking in from other dimensions, in which case it would seem infinite but wouldn't be since it would soul-starve those other dimensions eventually in which case Dark Force could be part of a "natural process" or something engineered to channel light energy excesses in the world back to another dimension.

Hmmmm:
-There technically is a limited amount of energy that could generate life in this universe. However since it's same energy that powers up stars, that would normally not be a limitation until one starts approaching an heat death scenario.
-However Dark Force has been crystallizing light energy to power up its schemes and minions over the millenia, preventing it from being recycled. Even when Dark Force gets stomped, most of the light energy crystals it had trapped remain unaccounted for. It is said that Dark Force itself will possess any particulary strong soul it meets, granting itself an even more powerful form, and sometimes even reaching a gestalt of light-dark energy.
-Dark Force is not part of any "natural process". If anything, studies point that if you go back in time there are no signs of Dark Force's activity at all until its first catastrophic appearance, leading to the theory that something or someone banished Dark Force (or something else that led to the creation of Dark Force) into this universe from somewhere else.

@Osle: Oh, since clones are copies, does a clone get a copy of the soul as well? Or maybe it is soulless and the soul goes back to it if the original is dead?
That or they share the original soul with all the other copies/original, which could explain their instant hostility to each other as the soul's potential main bodies go Highlander?
Kinda all of the above. Souls can be copied, but demands more exotic/magic processes are is necessary for a clone to operate and thus soulless beings can exist. An original's soul will often seek a soulless clone to inhabit. A single soul can also be fragmented over different bodies. With a bit of luck and a lot of work a fragment may grow into a fully fledged new soul.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 03:13:53 AM by oslecamo »

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #909 on: March 14, 2016, 04:03:43 AM »
Pretty cool! Thanks!

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #910 on: March 14, 2016, 03:42:41 PM »
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"By the way, since you let her pal escape I like have to worry about that and clean that mess up too."
I unfortunately do not have the time to make an IC post. Already all in my head, just gotta find time to do it. I'll note though that Baha wouldn't be able to know the Mag escape since it did so after he left the room.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #911 on: March 14, 2016, 05:22:00 PM »
Call it assumption since I have no idea of the timeline. Baha was there when it came out, saw it trapped, wasn't there when the planar thingy went down? (yeah pretty sure that happened before later site inspection), and now Mao is all PO'ed.

Anyway, I forgot about stealing her gear off of her at the time. Seriously that would have helped debuff her too >.>
But as for her knowledge that was always intended to be shared. I've been working a recruitment angle before you even attacked her and while I planned to use the teenaged form as an implied excuse (Baha lacks the bluff ranks to call it directly) it doubled down as the reason her soul isn't in the afterlife. :)

Is there an exact reason why I didn't drag her kicking and screaming back? Boredom mostly, besides if she can cast Forcecage she might have some Spells I want her to cast for Bahamut and she can't do that in an AMF.  :P

Offline ketaro

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #912 on: March 14, 2016, 08:33:10 PM »
Bwahahaha, Kat is now Mao's only wholely trustworthy ally. Gooood, blood, the plan goes well ;)

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #913 on: March 15, 2016, 01:31:18 AM »
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Bwahahaha, Kat is now Mao's only wholely trustworthy ally. Gooood, blood, the plan goes well
That's possible, but even friction is quite possible. Mao is very, very lawful good. She'll never be able to really relax and not worry about XYZ things around chaotic people.
I mean, look at Aryk, she was probably chaotic good too. When people with good intentions commit crimes, it doesn't make them immune to punishment.
Sad to say but she would likely have an easier time working with a Lawful Evil creature than a Chaotic Good one.
Either way, Goodness shall prevail!  :D
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Call it assumption since I have no idea of the timeline. Baha was there when it came out, saw it trapped, wasn't there when the planar thingy went down? (yeah pretty sure that happened before later site inspection), and now Mao is all PO'ed.

Round1 : Baha leaves to chase after Aryk. Aryk stumbles into a room full of anti_Esper bots ready for her and gets shot down.
Round 2 to X : Mao chats with the Mag. Could take a round or three depending on free action speech. Dimensional lock is off and Mao reaches the scene instantly.
Round 2 to X : Baha makes a show of eating Aryk. Could take a round or two. Then she leaves to do stuff in her Mech which takes quite a while (many spells to cast).
Round Y+ :  Mao checks the scene.
Round Z : Baha returns.

So it is quite possible that Mao would have witnessed Baha eating Aryk. She could have resurrected her as well (or try to, at least).

The Mag's escape is actually doubtful. It could easily still be in the room (didn't seem in no hurry to leave) or have been taken care of when Mao left the cage.
Mao also isn't pissed off. She cannot even be angry. Its not part of her range of emotions. She can understand anger, to a point, in the same manner that we understand, say, photosynthesis. If I described her as angry at any point thought that would be my mistake and out of character. She should be able to be annoyed, at most, which would be a mix of confusion (common when encountering errors in calculations) and eagerness toward.
What she is though is being very suspicious. Certainly not paranoiac, but very worried and careful. Especially now that she can concentrate on the aftermath of the event rather than ways to accomplish the objectives.

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But as for her knowledge that was always intended to be shared. I've been working a recruitment angle before you even attacked her and while I planned to use the teenaged form as an implied excuse (Baha lacks the bluff ranks to call it directly) it doubled down as the reason her soul isn't in the afterlife. :)
Sure, but they had already prepared a perfectly lawful way to get it done anyway. Criminal initiatives to accomplish the same goal are likely to be very badly welcomed by an extremely lawful government.

Great job with the background information on your royal House, by the way! I love a good read and the little details.

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So we'll have to murder it at some point.
Mao doesn't really care about it though she would prefer it to be somewhere it cannot cause unnecessary trouble. Its inanimate shell would look nice on a shelf, though.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 02:30:06 AM by Anomander »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #914 on: March 15, 2016, 10:37:07 AM »
The Mag's escape is actually doubtful. It could easily still be in the room (didn't seem in no hurry to leave) or have been taken care of when Mao left the cage.
It's probably going to make a ploy to rescue it's master through. As great as Baldy will be to stalk & question her he'll suck in any direct combat so we'll have to deal with it either way.

Great job with the background information on your royal House, by the way! I love a good read and the little details.
Thanks.

@Ols I can't decide if I want to revamp "Lumpy", who isn't even statted yet, into a Succubus for the pun or into a Beholder Mage.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 03:59:33 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #915 on: March 15, 2016, 11:48:49 PM »
There's some other stuff I want to reply to here, but for now just want to clarify some points.

Round1 : Baha leaves to chase after Aryk. Aryk stumbles into a room full of anti_Esper bots ready for her and gets shot down.
Round 2 to X : Mao chats with the Mag. Could take a round or three depending on free action speech. Dimensional lock is off and Mao reaches the scene instantly.
Round 2 to X : Baha makes a show of eating Aryk. Could take a round or two. Then she leaves to do stuff in her Mech which takes quite a while (many spells to cast).
Round Y+ :  Mao checks the scene.
Round Z : Baha returns.

So it is quite possible that Mao would have witnessed Baha eating Aryk. She could have resurrected her as well (or try to, at least).
Maia only disabled the anti-teleportation measures after Aryk was confirmed devoured taken care of.

@Ols I can't decide if I want to revamp "Lumpy", who isn't even statted yet, into a Succubus for the pun or into a Beholder Mage.
(click to show/hide)
Tyrant magic only works on classes, not prestige classes.

Even if it did, the beholder class does specify that you can only take Tyrant mage after it is completed.

Edit - So I'm pretty sure you knew and it's intentional.
If the Sharn takes a dual-casting prc like Mysthic Theurge, it can keep advancing at double rate, counting its Sharn casting for both the divine and arcane advancement.
Sharn 6 / MT 6 gets dual 9ths at ECL 12. If you figure Theurgics typically cost 3 levels of multiclassing it's the same difference.[/spoiler]

Mysthic Theurge simply allows the Sharn to keep gaining double spell slots/known as before.  CL and spell level progression were never doubled.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 12:46:51 AM by oslecamo »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #916 on: March 16, 2016, 11:20:32 AM »
Tyrant magic only works on classes, not prestige classes.
You should append it to saying "base class" instead of "class" so it's a little more clear, and I never found anything addressing Beholder Mage beyond Nanshork's comments which is what drew me to the text. Even looking back at it now knowing you prefer to call it "Tyrant Mage" the thread is utterly devoid of any discussion on it.

And it's the same with Sharn's MT stacking. It can keep advancing at double rate counting its Sharn casting for both divine and arcane advancement really only builds one idea. Just copy the typical innate spellcasting entry twice, one for Sorcerer and the other for Favored Soul, which is what the Sharn get to begin with, and things will be a hair less confusing on the reader's end.

And I made a Succubus anyway using one of the 2nd level followers. Yeahee implied perversion!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 03:25:02 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #917 on: March 16, 2016, 03:17:28 PM »
Succubus, singular. Succubi, plural.

I get it, Latin is weird with the 'S's. (Double pun intended.)
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #918 on: March 16, 2016, 03:26:09 PM »
Latin doesn't hold a candle to English.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #919 on: March 16, 2016, 03:28:46 PM »
Does that make Portuguese a clan of ninja assassins or something?
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

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