Author Topic: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting  (Read 200166 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #940 on: March 26, 2016, 12:55:25 PM »
Given that the other fight ended in 'one character nearly dying' and even less leads, I don't think loot's that important.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #941 on: March 26, 2016, 01:31:07 PM »
Given that the other fight ended in 'one character nearly dying' and even less leads, I don't think loot's that important.
When we started things were more flavorful and interactive so having a dragon wanting to be a super-dragon wasn't a big deal but since the separation you're right on us pretty much sucking at Encounters.

On the one hand pragmatically we won and it felt like a challenge so at the time is was hats off to Ols. But this second Encounter was a total flop, so yeah probably need to step things up a hair. I should probably buy out the rest of my wealth, finish stating my minions, and figure out how much power I can leech of Ayrk and/or my background that I've never been motivated to finish. And I'm working on it, slowly, :p

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #942 on: March 26, 2016, 04:19:38 PM »
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Eh you've got you're wires cross a hair. On my end you've been purposely shoving metagame knowledge to grief the hell out of me for no reason.
Nothing personal. Mao is only unto Baha because she smells treachery since that slip up.

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I mean if loot was a big deal you...
It isn't. I really couldn't care less about loot, which is which Mao, as she has already stated, is going to simply have it all handled by AA people where they can work on it. Meaning she isn't getting anything out of it. Even the staff is going to be worked on by AA scientists to get more data.


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(she never used her boots?)
All right, I went and looked it up:
Quote from: Aryk
May mother forgive me. Gala das bruxas!

Aryk's  shoes start glowing violet and suddenly she's sprinting at extreme speed, entering the corridor connecting the room to the exterior in the blink of an eye. A moment later there's the loud sound of blasts and guns being fired, followed by some screams.

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Who knows *shrugs*. You could have came to me too really since I really could care less about the loot and have already offered to split it
If Baha offered Mao goods she stole from the AA, that wouldn't have ended well at all.
This isn't an OOC issue. I'm not thinking you're trying to get loot all for yourself or anything like that. Its all about Mao trying to fulfill objectives. The AA does not want Esper related stuff going around and she is part of the AA.
Simple as that.

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But you really should remember I really haven't watched the super bot series and "Phantasy Star" to me is a video game full of half naked lolis. "Esper" is next to a meaningless term for me.
Same here. I just played PSO episode 1&2. I have no clue about anything that wasn't in that game. And even then I'm far from an expert on that game's lore. Espers are totally new to me. All I know is the basic stuff in the lore and what Maia told Mao: That Espers almost always eventually turn into Dark Force and become a menace to society.

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And judging from you're response, I must have derailed one of the most important stories to you or maybe she's packing some kind of MacGruffian Artifact and you don't want to risk me being in charge of splitting up the loot rather than you.
Yeah, no. This is a side mission that just happened without expecting it. I think it happened to give us something to do while the rest of the team was off fighting maids and it would progress the investigation somehow.
Getting the information is part of why they are cloning Aryk.
If the gear is returned or otherwise secured nobody is gonna get it. Baha will be paid for the service, with which he can buy his own loot. Not sure Mao is even paid anything for this and it isn't a concern for my character. Nor one of mine. Mao also implied that as a form of reward the AA could also support Baha with his ascent to the throne. If that wasn't an effort to promote further partnership between our characters despite the situation I don't know what is.

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Which in reflection also means I managed to get something out of the Encounter and Mao/Anodmander won't unless he gets loot. Maybe that's why he's pushing so hard.
All I see is that we had something to do and we won. Mao didn't do much during the capture itself but the idea proposed to trap her in prepared area rather than at her home, on her own turf (which Maia reported doesn't usually work so well) suffices me by far.
I'm not pushing hard. Didn't need to metagame either since Mao is actually certain Aryk is dead. She mostly questions his motivations.
Baha talks of Espers in the presence of the Esper, why? -> Aryk panics and tries to flee -> Aryk dies and most of her gear disappears. Getting her stuff wouldn't have been possible if she had been simply captured so he had to force the hostilities.
The motivation seems to be greed, which would make sense from Baha.
Not so bad. That aside, if Mao later learns that Aryk survived or that her gear was smuggled, she will report it.
Her loyalty is clearly not to some bounty hunters whose vision of how the world should be differs so much from hers.

It isn't personal. I'm trying to keep or characters together and avoid a lot of problems later. Such as actual PvP.
You decided that Baha trying to rip off and betray the AA was in character. I decided that Mao protecting their interests was in character. That's all.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 04:27:03 PM by Anomander »

Offline ketaro

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #943 on: March 26, 2016, 08:18:01 PM »
That quote about aryks shoes glowing doesn't actually provide evidence for or against the shoebeing magical or mundane. That really just looks like aryk casting expeditious retreat lol.

@Rainy
Whoa whoa whoa, nobody almost died in the other encounter! Not even close, definitely not :D

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #944 on: March 26, 2016, 08:37:03 PM »
That quote about aryks shoes glowing doesn't actually provide evidence for or against the shoebeing magical or mundane. That really just looks like aryk casting expeditious retreat lol.
Eh, all the shoe talk made me post it. But one of them was chewed up regardless, the other has been next to Mao this entire time. Because regardless of what Anomander wants to claim in this OOC thread, he doesn't really care what's going on in game. He's too busy shoving his metaknowledge into Mao during this entire speal. And as you can tell, he doesn't really care at all to resolve things, cus Mao doesn't  :rolleyes
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 08:43:39 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #945 on: March 26, 2016, 09:42:56 PM »
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Because regardless of what Anomander wants to claim in this OOC thread, he doesn't really care what's going on in game. He's too busy shoving his metaknowledge into Mao during this entire speal. And as you can tell, he doesn't really care at all to resolve things, cus Mao doesn't  :rolleyes
I see that's how you feel about it.
From my perspective, either you made a mistake with your character or your character made the mistake.
Now it's backfiring and you don't like it. I'm giving you opportunities to retract out of it but you're not taking them, insisting on assuming what your character did all the way. I can respect that but if you insist on betraying the AA after giving Mao a trail, I won't stop only to make you feel better since you clearly don't care about my *cough* feelings either.

I mean, you say you want things to be resolved, but your reaction is to actively try to make things worse.

At this point if Baha doesn't get confirmed as guilty, Mao will accept it but she will be very cautious and the AA will likely hesitate to involve Baha with stuff involving secrets from then on. Mao at least would no longer recommend it.
If he fesses up then Maia might scold her with about the same severity she used when we blew up the central dome. And that's it. We still don't know Aryk is still alive so you keep your new pet. (though that's getting harder now since you just had to mention what Aryk said and give even more things to ask questions about. You could have simply returned later with the info, saying stuff like 'I consulted my spy network on Espers and we got something on an Anna and some seal on Ragol' after consulting them on the matter to make it true.)

I can understand your frustration, to a point. Now you say things like "Anomander wants..." as if you knew me.
You can please stop that. I'm not playing Mao this way to get at you and won't no matter how much you're trying to anger me. If you want to resolve this, pushing it to PvP isn't the way to go.
I don't see how I could have Mao let go of Baha with so much cause for suspicion.
Your suggestion for resolution was to split the loot. That doesn't work for me at all in-character.
You're also not taking any possibility I give you to solve things in-character. I don't see what resolution you're trying to get to beyond things going completely your way and me pretending I didn't see notice the slip-ups, back-tracking to that point. Or if we all agree that Baha never made them. Though that may affect whether Aryk would have tried to escape or not. If she hadn't she'd likely have been surrounding by bots while in a Dimensional Lock and an AMF. If Aryk panicked for another reason, though, then things would have gone as they have anyway, minus Mao having increasing reasons to doubt Baha's motives.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 09:49:14 PM by Anomander »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #946 on: March 26, 2016, 09:58:01 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but can we please not hinge the entire damn story on 'what the AA would like'? Over half the cast are mercenaries. Which makes it dubious to have things locked into 'and this is what a single organisation of nebulous intent wants, when other people can also pay'.

Ammy's backstory had her as their enemy. Since, well, merc. :lmao

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #947 on: March 26, 2016, 10:35:49 PM »
Sure, but they kind of are the guys actually giving us the entire quest. They are also those paying the mercenary characters right now, and helping a lot of people start a new life on a new planet. So even though I'm playing the only AA representative, what they want does matter for now.

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Ammy's backstory had her as their enemy. Since, well, merc.
Yes, how dare they end their slavery and end the war.  :P
That's all behind us now.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #948 on: March 26, 2016, 10:41:00 PM »
The AA's overarching goals are of no importance to every other character's the point. Nor are their particular motivations. :p

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #949 on: March 26, 2016, 11:07:21 PM »
Indeed. The AA's goals and motivations matter really only to Mao.
If everyone avoids stepping on the toes of another character's goals and motivations there shouldn't ever be any significant conflicts.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 11:14:48 PM by Anomander »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #950 on: March 26, 2016, 11:23:23 PM »
Provided that this doesn't require acting in sync with an organisation the rest of us only care about so far as they pay us. xD

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #951 on: March 26, 2016, 11:33:53 PM »
From my perspective, either you made a mistake with your character or your character made the mistake. Now it's backfiring and you don't like it.
Who said it's backfiring? Ols already posted saying Baha break items (and Baha did) and gave me a report from Ayrk's interrogation. It's working.

Oh wait, gimme a sec here...
You can please stop that. I'm not playing Mao this way to get at you and won't no matter how much you're trying to anger me. If you want to resolve this, pushing it to PvP isn't the way to go.
Previously on PH.
Baham then ignores Mao and walks back towards the facility. Over the radio com but over Mao's traitorous staff, "She's you're problem not mine. Ayrk's statement about my talent being able to ID the monolith could be a trap through, formal request for a 28 ran on an possible Anna's in connection with Ayrk for review."
Baham is literally walking away from Anomander's bitchfest to continue the plot that really hasn't advanced since for almost six months with, or without, him and turning it over to w/e is supposed to be in game to deal with Mao's problem.

But as you tell it, things are backfiring and I'm totally trying to PvP you. I mean look at this.
Your suggestion for resolution was to split the loot. That doesn't work for me at all in-character.
There isn't a better way to describe selfishness than that.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #952 on: March 26, 2016, 11:37:28 PM »
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Over the radio com but over Mao's traitorous staff

Uh, Soro, the fuck is that meant to mean? O_o

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #953 on: March 26, 2016, 11:58:50 PM »
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It's working.
Thing is, it would have worked anyway. Even if she had been killed.

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Baham is literally walking away from Anomander's bitchfest to continue the plot that really hasn't advanced since for almost six months with, or without, him and turning it over to w/e is supposed to be in game to deal with Mao's problem.
Maia ordered the mecha's search. If Maia wants you out of this situation, she just has to send the word.

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and turning it over to w/e is supposed to be in game to deal with Mao's problem.
Indeed. She should receive her orders soon on how to deal with the problem. It could fix the situation.

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But as you tell it, things are backfiring and I'm totally trying to PvP you. I mean look at this.
That threat Baha made does imply going in PvP at some point, and he even had the great idea to mention it to her so if it did happen they would know who to blame for it. It does feel like its backfiring.
He's had his foot in his mouth the whole operation.
He's doing so well you're trying flattery, then insult and provocation (as if his attempt to cause trouble wasn't so clumsy it would require any amount of metagaming to bring great suspicion. I suspected Baha was on to treachery and mentioned it in-game before he even ate Aryk), then threats in-game. Doesn't work. But you're determined to get Baha through without being caught out despite having everything he said (and didn't) during the conversion incriminating him further, perhaps because it would wound your ego and that's a big no-no.
You see now that you won't talk him out of it or will make things even worse if you keep trying (though you're doing great at covering his tracks with his minion. I'll admit that's impressive enough I'd probably be tempted to push it all the way myself if I was in your shoes), so he's leaving.
You can call that trying to move unto other things if you wish. It's a good call and would be nice indeed. You bluff better than your character.

If Maia decides Baha isn't a potential threat to the AA or that he is worth the effort, then he'll be able to simply walk away indeed. That would be the best scenario at this point, provided we never discover Aryk is still alive.

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Your suggestion for resolution was to split the loot. That doesn't work for me at all in-character.

There isn't a better way to describe selfishness than that.
Why is it so hard to understand that a character won't appreciate the gesture if the loot you share with her is a proof that you betrayed her? Why is Baha even betraying her to begin with? Not selfishness, surely.

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formal request for a 28 ran on an possible Anna's in connection with Ayrk for review."
In case you didn't make the connection, Anna is the Erinye Prototype. Elle called her 'sister' before shutting her down.
Seeing how it didn't happen that long ago in-game, Baha should be able to make the connection unless he wasn't paying much attention then.
Considering Elle got detained, that we went to meet and trap an Esper not long after saving Elle and that this Esper has a connection to Anna, Elle's sister, which again we recently rescued, both of which are currently under AA quarantine because of the purple cell thing and Anna for being a catatonic organic-android specimen... the connection isn't hard to figure out.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 02:07:07 AM by Anomander »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #954 on: March 27, 2016, 12:19:29 AM »
I'm sure glad no one read Hugo's backstory all of a sudden.  :D
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #955 on: March 27, 2016, 12:41:46 AM »
I'm sure glad no one read Hugo's backstory all of a sudden.  :D

I don't think you have a class in your stub that is 'BEHOLD MY BACKGROUND', you're good.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #956 on: March 29, 2016, 01:58:12 AM »
Finally got some time to answer a bunch of questions from Soro here. If anyone has any OOC questions I missed let me know.

(click to show/hide)

Now to clarify what appears to be some misunderstandings.

But you really should remember I really haven't watched the super bot series and "Phantasy Star" to me is a video game full of half naked lolis.
(click to show/hide)

"Esper" is next to a meaningless term for me. Like Ol's intro says magic is rare but you guys have created some of the most OP magic spamming homebrew I've ever seen and it's a gestated game that allows you to pick up Arcane Pilot on top of that.
I guess I need to work more on the background. But to try to be simple, while in other fantasy franchises you have technology masquerading as magic, in PS you more usually have magic masquerading as technology. "Forces" are commonplace spellcasters that use "safe", standardized, refined and mass-produced magic that most of the population sees as technology. But then you have Espers that keep records of more ancient, exotic and risky spells, forcing them to operate under the radar, and then corrupted Dark cultists/Chaos Sorcerors that believe that the end always justifies the magic means and most civilized governments order to be shot on sight. Those last still appear in PS games as mid-late enemies. You usuall start fighting "sci-fi" enemies like alien lifeforms, mutants and machines, but when you notice it you're in some kind of ancient stone ruins surrounded by maddening runes and you're facing tainted laser centaurs and golems and dark swordsmen.
(click to show/hide)
Technically they all use the same kind of magic, but Forces limit themselves to safe, true-and-tried spells without nasty secondary effects and thus they're widely trusted by the public, to which the Force's magic techniques are presented as technology for convenience's sake, since you don't want people to go look for ancient tomes of forbidden lore, but rather to check the open market catalogue.

And apparently Dimensional Lock, an 8th level Spell, is reduced to the rarity of a ship wide button buff according to you.
That however wasn't a 8th level spell, simple Pure Iron

Esper is just forgotten and meaningless background fluff. Coincidentally, I'm banking on everyone else's interest to let me know when Ols is ripping of it's storyline so I know when to complicate matters.
Forgotten yes, meaningless no. PS I, II and IV all had at least one Esper party member that was part of a bigger organization. However progressively in each game they became more and more of a reclusive faction, going from having direct ties with the local government to hiding in some mountains isolated from everything else. In parallel however, while in PS I you had the male human warrior unable to use magic, in PS II, III and IV everybody but a few androids can use spells techniques of some sort, more expanded with each game, meaning that despite the esper increased isolation, certain types of magic were becoming more widesperead.

Thus the basis of their fluff for this campaign.

Also the Android Administration kinda hates magic and prefers cold metal and circuits, so they're more agressive towards espers and make relatively less use of Forces than other factions.

Something involving some esper who got killed and then... walls of text?
In a tl;dr.

Mission to a planet to steal a rock for plot reasons.
You were just supposed to check it out, Anomander's character was the one who decided to take it to the ship.

Tangent to question a spellcaster about said rock because these people can cast 8th level Spells but not Detect Magic (not even joking here).
She escaped, DM had to step in using bots that single handedly won the entire Encounter off screen because the show must go on.
The Android Administration can't use 8th level spells. They were already pretty sure that the esper could cast magic spells and the plan A was just to send the bots to violently capture her once they had her identification from another interrogation, but Anomander's character wanted to try to talk to her peacefully.




Really through, I don't feel the FAQ doesn't cover anything about this. It covers expected Slots if you dip into Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard which can only be extrapolated by example on how it'd work with Beholder Mage or even simple the Bard. The section before the table might be what you mean
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I want to play a spellcaster monster!
Monsters that cast as "class X" like the dragon and Rakshasa will stack their spellcasting with the respective classes.

Other monsters like the mind flayer don't actualy cast as "class X", but if they multiclass to certain caster classes they gain powerful bonus. Notice however this only works towards actual base classes that grant spellcasting, not prestige classes that grant spellcasting out of nowhere like ur-priest and chamaleon.
But Psionics aside, your Mindflayer & Ulitharid are SLA based and neither of them grant any direct benefit for multiclassing, what they get that would be stacking would be the combo of eating a brain and gaining a bonus to their Spell DCs, which your FAQ nerfs to apparently base-class only. So that sentence more or less equals a massive broad spectrum ban of being able to use any of any none-caster monster ability with any PrC. Like a Gloom wanting to enter Assassin is basically fml'ed thanks to the incompatibility the FAQ created.

But the Rakshasa is exempt from this because it does cast as Class X well the Beholder is Su based not pseudo-caster SLAs like the Mindflayer and does explicitly stack with Class X like the Rakshasa. I'm not really trying to be argumentative here, which would be pretty pointless if I were thanks to dual editor/DM power there, but are you picking up what I'm laying down? I went there because the text goes there and the text really doesn't refute it. The easy out is to explain it, not necessarily invoke more that need explanations attached unless you're seeking for some feed back on that. And I'll try when I get around to it but I am slow.
You're complicating by extrapolating way too much. Let's keep it simple:
1-Is beholder an actual caster with spell slots and spells known? No.
2-Does the beholder class offers synergy with certain casting classes? Yes.
3-Does the FAQ clarifies that monsters that aren't actual spell casters but offer synergy with caster gain said synergy only from base caster classes? Yes.
4-Thus if A=B, and B=C, then A=C.

The only way your argument makes sense is that the FAQ actually means the exact opposite of what is written, aka that when I say that you can't qualify for chameleon/ur-mage, that I actually meant that you automatically qualify for chamelon/ur-mage, aka you're saying that 1=-1.

And yes, the intention from the start was that pseudocaster monsters couldn't jump into a casting prc right away, and they would need to dip at least one level of a base class so they don't get to skip progressions.

If that somehow means that the Gloom can't enter the assassin prc, I have honestly zero fucks to give about that, because the Gloom already is an epic monster.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 02:09:00 AM by oslecamo »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #957 on: March 31, 2016, 12:43:45 AM »
Most electronic systems have simplified interfaces, Profession and Knowledge checks can be used to interact with it as appropriate depending on the kind of technology. Cellphones have a wide range of costs from basic 50 meseta models that just send and receive to 50 000 meseta deluxe models with integrated super AIs and photon fields.
I feel like I should know what a meseta is, also lol on candy crush.

Btw, idk if it's entirely relevant or not. But BoVD has a Major Artifact called the Staff of Tongues, it can permanently alter a creature's form. It how if ever asked I planned on explaining things about a mixed dragon deal or how we had *a* race before going dragon classed, etc.

Also there was a ton of background info in there, the Star games, the campaign, Q/A on monster classes, nice catch up but this post would be enormously long if I tried commenting on it all. Thought on the last, chillax a hair. Gloom may be an Epic Monster in official content but in your homebrew you can start at ECL 1 and as always multiclass out later on. It misses your love!

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #958 on: March 31, 2016, 12:48:48 AM »
I think it raises interesting questions on whether embarking on an epic level monster and abandoning ship halfway should really be considered for PrC requirements. I'd think not; the idea of those things is to avoid dipping.

Offline ketaro

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #959 on: March 31, 2016, 01:16:16 AM »
I feel like I should know what a meseta is, also lol on candy crush.

Meseta is PS money. Basically translated to 1 Meseta = 1 Gp