Author Topic: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion  (Read 8361 times)

Offline ImperatorK

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Chara did nothing wrong.
    • View Profile
    • Kristof Imperator YouTube Channel
Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« on: October 14, 2012, 06:51:33 AM »
I didn't find a discussion thread, so I'm starting this one.

Something I want to discuss (or rather ask): How would the 10th level builds fare in a one-on-one battle against a war troll? They can use only mundane, non-masterwork weapons and armor and armor is limited to Core only.
Magic is for weaklings.

Alucard: "*snif snif* Huh? Suddenly it reeks of hypocrisy in here. Oh, if it isn't the Catholic Church. And what's this? No little Timmy glued to your crotch. Progress!"
My YT channel - LoL gameplay

Offline InnaBinder

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Onna table
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 09:29:56 AM »
I didn't find a discussion thread, so I'm starting this one.

Something I want to discuss (or rather ask): How would the 10th level builds fare in a one-on-one battle against a war troll? They can use only mundane, non-masterwork weapons and armor and armor is limited to Core only.
By "they," do you mean the war troll or the builds?  Generally speaking, a 10th level build is presumed to have magic items appropriate to its level, so removing that is intentionally weakening the build somewhat. . . in some cases, somewhat drastically.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded.

shugenja handbook; talk about it here

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
  • Not very active here but still active online
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 11:22:50 AM »
While I do love the imagery, is there any reason the "Death From Above" build isn't using a sparrow Hengeyokai? You wouldn't have to waste a feat on wild cohort and you wouldn't have to make ride checks. According to the table, as a sparrow, you have: STR 1, DEX 23, CON 10; AC 24 (+8 size, +6 dex), 1 foot land speed; base fly speed of 50 feet (no maneuverability is given, but given what I've seen sparrows be able to do IRL, I'd say "perfect").

Does the extra 30 ft. fly speed from the hawk outweigh the Hengeyokai's advantages?
 
Please, call me Count :).

Offline ImperatorK

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Chara did nothing wrong.
    • View Profile
    • Kristof Imperator YouTube Channel
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 12:54:10 PM »
By "they," do you mean the war troll or the builds?  Generally speaking, a 10th level build is presumed to have magic items appropriate to its level, so removing that is intentionally weakening the build somewhat. . . in some cases, somewhat drastically.
Both.
I know it weakens the build, but that's how the rules are.
Magic is for weaklings.

Alucard: "*snif snif* Huh? Suddenly it reeks of hypocrisy in here. Oh, if it isn't the Catholic Church. And what's this? No little Timmy glued to your crotch. Progress!"
My YT channel - LoL gameplay

Offline Maat Mons

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2012, 05:33:18 PM »
“Death from Above” started out as a druid build, but I was having trouble getting a good ranged attack on it.  If you're looking into alterations, here are some thoughts. 

Unlike other spell-like abilities, invocations require somatic gestures.  This is directly stated on page 71.  A few other sections make oblique reference to it.  Eldritch blast is an invocation.  You need to refer to the errata for this, since the book says the opposite.  The surrogate spellcasting feat (Savage Species) would allow the sparrow form to supply the somatic components of spells.  I imagine most DMs would allow it to work for invocations too. 

At higher levels, when you're guaranteed to make the concentration check, you can have your mount move both before and after you cast. 

One you get magic items, it becomes inconvenient to rely on changing form. 

Anthropomorphic bat or raven (Savage Species) would be another option for gaining flight at 1st level.  Their fly speeds are 20 feet, and they don't have as high an attack bonus as the muckdweller or sparrow hengeyokai. 

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
  • Not very active here but still active online
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2012, 07:02:11 PM »
“Death from Above” started out as a druid build, but I was having trouble getting a good ranged attack on it.  If you're looking into alterations, here are some thoughts. 

Unlike other spell-like abilities, invocations require somatic gestures.  This is directly stated on page 71.  A few other sections make oblique reference to it.  Eldritch blast is an invocation.  You need to refer to the errata for this, since the book says the opposite.  The surrogate spellcasting feat (Savage Species) would allow the sparrow form to supply the somatic components of spells.  I imagine most DMs would allow it to work for invocations too. 

At higher levels, when you're guaranteed to make the concentration check, you can have your mount move both before and after you cast. 

One you get magic items, it becomes inconvenient to rely on changing form. 

Anthropomorphic bat or raven (Savage Species) would be another option for gaining flight at 1st level.  Their fly speeds are 20 feet, and they don't have as high an attack bonus as the muckdweller or sparrow hengeyokai.

Ah okay, makes sense.
Please, call me Count :).

Offline DavidWL

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 03:59:19 AM »
2 more level 1 builds:

Alter Self Specialist
Wizard 1
Specialist (Transmutation) / Focused Specialist, Trait)
spellgifted (Transmutation),
H) Otherworldly,
F) Assume Supernatural Ability (Nightmare - Astral Projection / Etherealness),
F) Precocious Apprentice (Alter Self),
1) Reserves of strength

Spells:  Alter Self, Summon Monster 1, Unseen Servant, power word: pain.  Gear: Vanguard of Kord. CL 6 Alter Self, outsider type, breaks 5HD cap.  Nightmare abilities.

can turn into Nightmare and use Astral Projection / Etherealness at at 1st level.

Another kobold cleric caster

"Venerable Dragonwrought Beguiler 1 (or Witch)
(""child of eberron"" for Spontaneous Druid Spells or
""master of the hoard"" for spontaneous Cleric spells)"

Heighten Spell, Versatile Spell, Dragonwrought, (Later on: Initiate of Mystra, Reserves of Strength, alternate form, Supernatural Transformation)

Spontaneously cast any Cleric, Beguiler (Witch), or a few selected domain spells, of up to 2nd level, at 1st level!  (And you're venerable)

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1578
  • I am Concerned
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 05:36:18 AM »
On the Alter Self specialist: Reserves of Strength requires Iron Will.


A flaw using upgrade to Mr Dog's "Wizard OR Sorcerer Optimization"

Level:1

Class: Wizard

Race: Illumian

Racial Feature: Krau Sigil

Flaws: Noncombatant, Murky Eyed

Feats: Precocious Apprentice, Improved Sigil Krau, Reserve Feat (Fiery Burst, Winter's Blast, Acidic Splatter)

Designate your PA spell with your Improved Sigil and you have an effectively 3rd level spell to power your reserve feat. This build also gets around the sometime arguement against PA granting "the ability to cast 2nd level spells." It states that PA only gives you a single 2nd level spell and the requirement is plural. ISK can give you a second if that's a consideration.

Incidently, if you wish to bar evocation, it may be a bit tricky to find a correctly typed 2nd level spell. Icy Knife and Body of the Sun from the Spell Compendium are Conjuration and Transmutation respectively. If you are limited to core spells for some reason the fire and cold feats are out (unless you can get your DM to give Pyrotechnics the Fire descriptor) and you'll have to make do with Melf's Acid Arrow and the Acidic Splatter Feat.

Books Required
Races of Destiny: Illumian Race, Improved Sigil Krau feat
Complete Mage: Reserve feats
Complete Arcane: Precocious Apprentice
Spell Compendium: Icy Knife spell, Body of the Sun spell
Player's Handbook: Wizard or Sorcerer class, Melf's Acid Arrow spell
Unearthed Arcana: Flaws


Drow High Dex High Damage Build
Level:2
Class: Swordsage1, Fighter1
Race: Lesser Drow from Savage Progressions
ACF: Drow Fighter
Stance: Child of Shadow
Feats: Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse
Abilities: Dex 20 (16 pts)

Shadow Blade grants dex to damage. Drow Fighter both allows you to qualify for and pick up Weapon Finesse at level 2 and grants dex to damage a second time against flatfooted enemies. It gives +2 initiative into the bargain so you'll usually catch someone flatfooted at the beginning of combat. The Sapphire Nightmare Blade manuver from Diamond Mind will make an enemy flatfooted again, and the Wolf Fang Strike manuver from Tiger Claw grants two weapon fighting to double up on your high damage mod.

Sources Required
Player's Handbook
Tome of Battle: Swordsage, Martial Disciplines, Shadow Blade feat
Drow of the Underdark: Drow Fighter ACF
Savage Progressions Web Article: LA +0 Drow

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 10:58:36 PM »
By "they," do you mean the war troll or the builds?  Generally speaking, a 10th level build is presumed to have magic items appropriate to its level, so removing that is intentionally weakening the build somewhat. . . in some cases, somewhat drastically.
Both.
I know it weakens the build, but that's how the rules are.
It depends on the build. The Master of Shrouds builds I posted should mop the floor with a war troll, even with 0 magic items. They were specifically made for an arena setting where no one had magic items. The general tactic was Meld into Stone, summon a bunch of incorporeals (and other stuff), and wait for them to do your dirty work while you hide safely inside the ground.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline TiaC

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 182
  • Is this to be?
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2013, 09:21:46 PM »
I was reading CC and I noticed just how insane Water Devotion is at level 1. A Cleric can easily summon 6+ Elementals with it.

Offline Frogman55

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
  • I'm not very new!
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 12:44:41 PM »
Here's a new level 4 build (I had posted it in the discussion on the old boards, but it never got added.  :shakefist)

Scary Scales, the Dragonborn Hexblade.

Race: Dragonborn with the breath weapon, base race: Any without a Cha penalty. Cha bonuses are nice too.

1: Hexblade, Intimidating Strike*
2: Hexblade
3: Hexblade, Entangling Exhalation
4: Hexblade, Dark Companion

Notes: Max out Intimidate. The Dark Companion sidles up and lowers your enemy's saves. Then use your breath weapon to entagle the enemy (or keep him that way). Then, using a reach weapon and intimidating strike, make the BBEG shaken, and finally curse them when their saves are the lowest. In two or three rounds you can leave your foe with -6 to attacks, -6 to saves, -4 to checks, -2 to damage and AC, -4 dex, and half speed. And you can do that without expending any resources, other than the 1/day curse, but frankly that's the least of your debuffs.

Also, unlike a lot of other debuffers built around fear, this guy remains flexible in a fight against undead or others immune to fear/mind-effects. Entanglement works against just about anything (remember that Dragonborn can cherry-pick the energy effect with each blast, and there is no save against the entangling so long as the target takes some damage from the breath attack. Dark Companion also works against 'any enemy.'

If you can talk your GM into allowing the 'Official' Hexblade 'Fix,' then so much the better. This guy works all right even without it.

*I like intimidating Strike because of its long duration - Making a foe shaken for the encounter is nice. However, Daunting presence is an acceptable alternative if you don't mind the shorter duration and want to stay out of melee.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 12:49:10 PM by Frogman55 »

Offline Waazraath

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 177
  • Bla
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 02:17:00 PM »
Is the original thread still being updated? If so, I'd like to submit some low level builds.

Offline Frogman55

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
  • I'm not very new!
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 04:20:41 PM »
Is the original thread still being updated? If so, I'd like to submit some low level builds.
Well, phaedrusxy is still around, so it's not an entirely lost cause.

Offline Maat Mons

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2015, 12:55:11 AM »
I know the Compilation hasn't been updated in three years, but I'm posting a build here anyway.  It's for the 2nd-level, no flaws category

Trip Monk-ey (by Maat Mons)
(click to show/hide)

While creating this, I became painfully aware of the prerequisite on exotic weapon proficiency, base attack bonus +1.  As such, I've noticed that the Arashikage build (1st level, with flaws) is illegal.  Also, the Brutal Tripper build (3rd level, with flaws) needs the order of its feats changed around. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 01:10:55 AM by Maat Mons »

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2015, 12:13:58 PM »
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 12:15:37 PM by phaedrusxy »
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2015, 01:19:40 PM »
Fistbeard Beardfist
(click to show/hide)
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Maat Mons

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2015, 01:16:21 AM »
Added!

Thanks! 

Say, if I could impose on you a little more…  I noticed some minor grammatical errors in my post.  Also, I somehow put an entire sentence in the wrong paragraph.  I've corrected my post now.  Could you update the build in the Compilation?  Just delete the old one and paste the corrected one in? 

Offline zook1shoe

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4930
  • Feeling the Bern
    • View Profile
Re: Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2016, 09:28:57 PM »
So happy this handbook is around
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
- All Spells
- playground