Author Topic: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards  (Read 167704 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #700 on: August 22, 2018, 06:07:13 AM »
Anomander:
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Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #701 on: August 22, 2018, 07:27:29 AM »
The only part of that assault against Kat that I actually feel might be defeating me is that absolute information overload I can't figure out how to process this wall of text.

What is she doing, dodging Kat's point cause "there's worse ppl than me out there"?  :lmao

I've definitely got to admit though, I think I just lost all motivation to fight right now haha -_-'
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 08:29:10 AM by ketaro »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #702 on: August 22, 2018, 10:33:22 AM »
The only part of that assault against Kat that I actually feel might be defeating me is that absolute information overload I can't figure out how to process this wall of text.
There is a lot going on and like in the middle of it we're getting plot exposition and NPC backstory that blames Hugo for like, everything wrong with her life. What an ex amiright?

Now I get to figure out some calculus before vacation if I can.

Edit - You know, I'm sensing a recurring theme here.
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« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 02:13:31 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #703 on: August 22, 2018, 02:43:32 PM »
Osle, it's fine if Nei is wrong about all those, but puh-leeze don't blame Dark Force's ressurrection on Hugo. We all know the one behind that clusterfuck is Red Ring Rico, and Hugo didn't get to tap THAT ass.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #704 on: August 22, 2018, 05:09:53 PM »
I'll attempt to parse what the hell's going on in dialogue when not in the middle of dissertation writing. Should be some time this weekend.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #705 on: August 23, 2018, 04:45:15 AM »
The only part of that assault against Kat that I actually feel might be defeating me is that absolute information overload I can't figure out how to process this wall of text.

What is she doing, dodging Kat's point cause "there's worse ppl than me out there"?  :lmao

I've definitely got to admit though, I think I just lost all motivation to fight right now haha -_-'

It was supposed to be Nei pointing out that there's more shades of grey than white and black and every conflict has casualities one way or the other, but seems to have done the trick of calming down Katherine.

The only part of that assault against Kat that I actually feel might be defeating me is that absolute information overload I can't figure out how to process this wall of text.
There is a lot going on and like in the middle of it we're getting plot exposition and NPC backstory that blames Hugo for like, everything wrong with her life. What an ex amiright?

Now I get to figure out some calculus before vacation if I can.

Edit - You know, I'm sensing a recurring theme here.


(click to show/hide)

Osle, it's fine if Nei is wrong about all those, but puh-leeze don't blame Dark Force's ressurrection on Hugo. We all know the one behind that clusterfuck is Red Ring Rico, and Hugo didn't get to tap THAT ass.

Wait, you're not claiming that one?   :o

Then you have found a new secondary quest objective, get your Nei and Red Ring Rica together to talk it out (RRR's hanging with the rest of the party BTW).

Also I don't see how your swift etherealness would work to get inside a cockpit. Even ignoring the part where you'll take a bunch of Aoos from mecha weapons along the way besides anybody using any immediate actions, Murakumo and Hugo are going ethereal at the same time. Thus Hugo still needs a move action to exit Murakumo, and Hugo spent a standard action getting inside Murakumo and at least another action closing the distance so you're already at negative actions before worrying about needing to enter Nei's cockpit and you still need to spend at least another action for self-buffing. You're taking way too many actions in a single round and don't even have Zeal as a known spirit.

I'll attempt to parse what the hell's going on in dialogue when not in the middle of dissertation writing. Should be some time this weekend.

Dissertation first of course. I finally "lucked" out in having finished the writing for my previous work and the lab equipment for the next work being in need of repair so yay couple "free" days. :)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 04:51:49 AM by oslecamo »

Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #706 on: August 23, 2018, 06:27:05 AM »
I feel like Hugo's turn could be made to work if he actually was just screwing around with illusions. Illusions have infinite actions  :lmao

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #707 on: August 23, 2018, 12:24:02 PM »
One thing I'll ask now:

Quote
Then 30+32+32+33+31 damage all rending.

Do these count as separate attacks? I want to know if That Won't Work Twice would block the latter four.

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #708 on: August 23, 2018, 01:46:55 PM »
The only part of that assault against Kat that I actually feel might be defeating me is that absolute information overload I can't figure out how to process this wall of text.

What is she doing, dodging Kat's point cause "there's worse ppl than me out there"?  :lmao

I've definitely got to admit though, I think I just lost all motivation to fight right now haha -_-'

It was supposed to be Nei pointing out that there's more shades of grey than white and black and every conflict has casualities one way or the other, but seems to have done the trick of calming down Katherine.

The only part of that assault against Kat that I actually feel might be defeating me is that absolute information overload I can't figure out how to process this wall of text.
There is a lot going on and like in the middle of it we're getting plot exposition and NPC backstory that blames Hugo for like, everything wrong with her life. What an ex amiright?

Now I get to figure out some calculus before vacation if I can.

Edit - You know, I'm sensing a recurring theme here.


(click to show/hide)

Osle, it's fine if Nei is wrong about all those, but puh-leeze don't blame Dark Force's ressurrection on Hugo. We all know the one behind that clusterfuck is Red Ring Rico, and Hugo didn't get to tap THAT ass.

Wait, you're not claiming that one?   :o

Then you have found a new secondary quest objective, get your Nei and Red Ring Rica together to talk it out (RRR's hanging with the rest of the party BTW).

Also I don't see how your swift etherealness would work to get inside a cockpit. Even ignoring the part where you'll take a bunch of Aoos from mecha weapons along the way besides anybody using any immediate actions, Murakumo and Hugo are going ethereal at the same time. Thus Hugo still needs a move action to exit Murakumo, and Hugo spent a standard action getting inside Murakumo and at least another action closing the distance so you're already at negative actions before worrying about needing to enter Nei's cockpit and you still need to spend at least another action for self-buffing. You're taking way too many actions in a single round and don't even have Zeal as a known spirit.

I'll attempt to parse what the hell's going on in dialogue when not in the middle of dissertation writing. Should be some time this weekend.

Dissertation first of course. I finally "lucked" out in having finished the writing for my previous work and the lab equipment for the next work being in need of repair so yay couple "free" days. :)

Your mistake lies in assuming Hugo was inside Murakumo at the start of his action.

IF he could somehow remotely see through his illusions (he can't, unless there's an illusion spell that can do that at his current level) then he'd just use an illusion to get through to Nei instead. He could also use a standard to teleport right up in front of the Neikapool's cockpit (via free action drawing disk + standard to break it) and his move to 'walk' into the cockpit proper (between, say, expeditious retreat + Haste and/or a shitton of other movement enhancers I think he can still make it). Alert would take care of any (one) AoOs he might incur on the way.

Now see, there's probably a dozen ways to do this via spells without Hugo having to invent new spy gear for that specific purpose, and I just don't feel like going through each and every one of them to slow down the resolution of this turn for you to shoot down every one.

As for Murakumo's actions, he's sentient and shares Hugo's IQ, meaning he knows what to do by himself.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #709 on: August 23, 2018, 04:48:47 PM »
C'mon, even if your mecha gets wrecked Baha will be perfectly fine, that's a significant part of the the fun of mecha. You even took Expendable Machine.
I took Expendable Machine because I didn't want to be permanently penalized for your "fun of mecha".

Also your Guard's secondary clause would still trigger reducing damage to 1/3 for that hit.
That's actually nice, with Defend/Reflex stacking as it should maybe only the last attack would hit Baha, barring w/e escape pods do, and it'll be reduced enough s/he'll survive it.

Exact numbers will have to wait a bit, on a 24 and I start vacation tomorrow.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #710 on: August 23, 2018, 07:27:21 PM »
One thing I'll ask now:

Quote
Then 30+32+32+33+31 damage all rending.

Do these count as separate attacks? I want to know if That Won't Work Twice would block the latter four.
They are, but That Won't Work Twice doesn't work against attacks you're being hit in the current round, only the previous.

Your mistake lies in assuming Hugo was inside Murakumo at the start of his action.
Geez, I wonder why.

If we're running on rule of cool, then I get to teleport into my own mecha even if you won't let me teleport things into other mecha.

But back to the present.

IF he could somehow remotely see through his illusions (he can't, unless there's an illusion spell that can do that at his current level) then he'd just use an illusion to get through to Nei instead. He could also use a standard to teleport right up in front of the Neikapool's cockpit (via free action drawing disk + standard to break it) and his move to 'walk' into the cockpit proper (between, say, expeditious retreat + Haste and/or a shitton of other movement enhancers I think he can still make it). Alert would take care of any (one) AoOs he might incur on the way.

Now see, there's probably a dozen ways to do this via spells without Hugo having to invent new spy gear for that specific purpose, and I just don't feel like going through each and every one of them to slow down the resolution of this turn for you to shoot down every one.
However you don't get a dozen ways in a single round, you got one way. Had one way. You had over a month of real-time to think of something specific for your turn and this is the best you came up with:

For the sake of expediency, assume I broke like four disks to buff and reposition myself. I'll pick the exact spells later.
You only said you were only using disk magic to reposition yourself meaning only teleport. Hugo didn't declare any move actions, so at best now he's standing in the middle of a mecha battle. With no spirits active. Mind you this is still your round so you can go change your current actions to try your ethereal move trick now, specifying exactly which spells you're gonna use, but then you'll have to wait for the reactions of Nei and her crew.

As for Murakumo's actions, he's sentient and shares Hugo's IQ, meaning he knows what to do by himself.

You still need to declare his actions.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 07:41:39 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #711 on: August 23, 2018, 09:25:12 PM »
You're missing a far more important point here, Osle: namely, that this is at LEAST the second round in which you say "dude you can't do that" and explicitly block my actions. Or rather, this is actually the continuation of the first round in which you did that.

Now, I'm telling you there are myriad ways to accomplish the exact same effect as I'm doing now (one of my personal favorites is using Limited Wish to give me the ability to see via my illusions temporarily since, as Ketaro mentioned, illusions have infinite actions). I'm not even doing something outrageous like one-shotting a character, I'm only having him use his class abilities to move in close so he can talk to someone. I could use DD to move in close to Nei's cockpit and then use my move to enter her cockpit while Murakumo supports me by making a bazillion identical Hugos show up on the battlefield that are still at least as real as me and therefore not as easily dismissable as illusions. I could use Limited Wish to force Nei to fail her save against teleportation while sending in a single teleport disk via Murakumo and throwing her into the goddamn ocean, or even simpler, forcing her to fail a save against Suggestion to tell her to get out of the cockpit.

You can argue "mecha master race" all you want, but for fuck's sake, would you quit arbitrarily nerfing my character and instead accept that I'm doing stuff he can totally do by the rules?

Yes, mecha shows don't ordinarily have D&D wizards, we get it. This one does. I'm not even doing tier 2 and above stuff like breaking the action economy. I have in point of fact made it a point to play Hugo more to his concept than his mechanical advantages. I'm doing that PRECISELY to avoid stressing everybody out with endless arguments.

All I'm asking in return is: let me do the shit I want to do, make me roll some dice if you have to, just don't outright block me.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #712 on: August 23, 2018, 10:12:42 PM »
@Kuro, this is also the second time you tried jumping into someone's cockpit in a row so your imaginary character could put his imaginary hands all over an imaginary women.

Forgot Ols's vague description of mechs, treat them as worn armor with an extra HP pool like they are supposed to be. There is no such mechanical thing as moving into the cockpit, you can only move into Nei's space exactly like an incorp Shadow can move into a horse's space. You target, and interact, with the entire sum because it is one creature and that is all. In otherwards, you can't target Nei's separate body becuase the mech is part of her body.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #713 on: August 23, 2018, 10:20:23 PM »
Jumping into a cockpit specifically seems like a good way to jump into a wall. Often you're barely going to have room for one person, so trying to teleport without occupying the same space as someone else would be... trouble. <_>

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #714 on: August 23, 2018, 10:54:48 PM »
@Kuro, this is also the second time you tried jumping into someone's cockpit in a row so your imaginary character could put his imaginary hands all over an imaginary women.

Forgot Ols's vague description of mechs, treat them as worn armor with an extra HP pool like they are supposed to be. There is no such mechanical thing as moving into the cockpit, you can only move into Nei's space exactly like an incorp Shadow can move into a horse's space. You target, and interact, with the entire sum because it is one creature and that is all. In otherwards, you can't target Nei's separate body becuase the mech is part of her body.
Have you even read what I posted as Hugo? Really? Get your head outta the gutter for a minute.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #715 on: August 23, 2018, 10:55:56 PM »
Jumping into a cockpit specifically seems like a good way to jump into a wall. Often you're barely going to have room for one person, so trying to teleport without occupying the same space as someone else would be... trouble. <_>
Yeah, that's why this time I'm moving in ethereally. Which, you know, Osle actually said could be done, just probably not fast enough to go in and out on the same round.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #716 on: August 23, 2018, 11:24:01 PM »
You're missing a far more important point here, Osle: namely, that this is at LEAST the second round in which you say "dude you can't do that" and explicitly block my actions. Or rather, this is actually the continuation of the first round in which you did that.

Now, I'm telling you there are myriad ways to accomplish the exact same effect as I'm doing now (one of my personal favorites is using Limited Wish to give me the ability to see via my illusions temporarily since, as Ketaro mentioned, illusions have infinite actions). I'm not even doing something outrageous like one-shotting a character, I'm only having him use his class abilities to move in close so he can talk to someone. I could use DD to move in close to Nei's cockpit and then use my move to enter her cockpit while Murakumo supports me by making a bazillion identical Hugos show up on the battlefield that are still at least as real as me and therefore not as easily dismissable as illusions. I could use Limited Wish to force Nei to fail her save against teleportation while sending in a single teleport disk via Murakumo and throwing her into the goddamn ocean, or even simpler, forcing her to fail a save against Suggestion to tell her to get out of the cockpit.

You can argue "mecha master race" all you want, but for fuck's sake, would you quit arbitrarily nerfing my character and instead accept that I'm doing stuff he can totally do by the rules?

Yes, mecha shows don't ordinarily have D&D wizards, we get it. This one does. I'm not even doing tier 2 and above stuff like breaking the action economy. I have in point of fact made it a point to play Hugo more to his concept than his mechanical advantages. I'm doing that PRECISELY to avoid stressing everybody out with endless arguments.

All I'm asking in return is: let me do the shit I want to do, make me roll some dice if you have to, just don't outright block me.

Limited Wish can't force saves to auto-fail, that's only for non-limited Wish.
Normal and greater teleport can't force saves in the first place, it's willing-only.

And that's one of my problem with Hugo's current actions, you're borderline ignoring the game's rules now and wanting to play freeform. Which I can play along now and then, but not in actual battle.

Doubly so when you're just retroactively changing actions.

If you want to be a wizard, then act like one. Cast specific spells. You can't just declare the end result and then go "I'm a wizard, I don't need to pick spells", and you can't either just let your actions in the air until everything else's resolved then redo your entire turn.

Last turn it wasn't just you trying to teleport inside the cockpit, it was also you trying to teleport dozens of objects inside the cockpit which is simply not possible by basic teleport's rules and even if it was your disks wouldn't break on their own. Your plan had multiple holes no matter how one looks at it before taking in account I specifically blocked teleporting inside cockpit in the first place. In the other hand going ethereal inside cockpit is something I'm willing to entertain since ghosts sometimes do that in Gundam or something, but you still need to actually close in and survive the point-defenses to do so.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #717 on: August 23, 2018, 11:38:30 PM »
Have you even read what I posted as Hugo? Really? Get your head outta the gutter for a minute.
It's kind of hard when no matter how you claim to read it, Hugo is invading her personal space and has to remind her in every single paragraph that she used to be his girlfriend. >.>

We're at the point where from Mei's imaginary point of view she hates Hugo so much she thinks he summoned the uber devil to kill us all and you still haven't gotten the hint to use a radio or cell phone to talk to her instead of trying to be so close Hugo can tell when she last showered. :(
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 11:40:20 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #718 on: August 24, 2018, 12:00:28 AM »
You're missing a far more important point here, Osle: namely, that this is at LEAST the second round in which you say "dude you can't do that" and explicitly block my actions. Or rather, this is actually the continuation of the first round in which you did that.

Now, I'm telling you there are myriad ways to accomplish the exact same effect as I'm doing now (one of my personal favorites is using Limited Wish to give me the ability to see via my illusions temporarily since, as Ketaro mentioned, illusions have infinite actions). I'm not even doing something outrageous like one-shotting a character, I'm only having him use his class abilities to move in close so he can talk to someone. I could use DD to move in close to Nei's cockpit and then use my move to enter her cockpit while Murakumo supports me by making a bazillion identical Hugos show up on the battlefield that are still at least as real as me and therefore not as easily dismissable as illusions. I could use Limited Wish to force Nei to fail her save against teleportation while sending in a single teleport disk via Murakumo and throwing her into the goddamn ocean, or even simpler, forcing her to fail a save against Suggestion to tell her to get out of the cockpit.

You can argue "mecha master race" all you want, but for fuck's sake, would you quit arbitrarily nerfing my character and instead accept that I'm doing stuff he can totally do by the rules?

Yes, mecha shows don't ordinarily have D&D wizards, we get it. This one does. I'm not even doing tier 2 and above stuff like breaking the action economy. I have in point of fact made it a point to play Hugo more to his concept than his mechanical advantages. I'm doing that PRECISELY to avoid stressing everybody out with endless arguments.

All I'm asking in return is: let me do the shit I want to do, make me roll some dice if you have to, just don't outright block me.

Limited Wish can't force saves to auto-fail, that's only for non-limited Wish.
Normal and greater teleport can't force saves in the first place, it's willing-only.

And that's one of my problem with Hugo's current actions, you're borderline ignoring the game's rules now and wanting to play freeform. Which I can play along now and then, but not in actual battle.

Doubly so when you're just retroactively changing actions.

If you want to be a wizard, then act like one. Cast specific spells. You can't just declare the end result and then go "I'm a wizard, I don't need to pick spells", and you can't either just let your actions in the air until everything else's resolved then redo your entire turn.

Last turn it wasn't just you trying to teleport inside the cockpit, it was also you trying to teleport dozens of objects inside the cockpit which is simply not possible by basic teleport's rules and even if it was your disks wouldn't break on their own. Your plan had multiple holes no matter how one looks at it before taking in account I specifically blocked teleporting inside cockpit in the first place. In the other hand going ethereal inside cockpit is something I'm willing to entertain since ghosts sometimes do that in Gundam or something, but you still need to actually close in and survive the point-defenses to do so.

And yet you're making my point for me: I only mentioned a couple of the possible plans and your first impulse was to shoot them down.

I could go with "you can't use teleport that way because teleport doesn't work that way". Instead, I had to go with "you can't use teleport that way because it wrecks my precious mechas even though D&D magic logic somehow has no effect on how the world runs". Nevermind that there WERE a number of ways I could have set off the discs regardless (like maybe arranging them so they are broken in a specific order then Shocking Grasping through the first one with an otherwise harmless (to me) effect).

The only reason I'm even retroactively changing actions is because you're telling me after I posted them that they can't be used that way.

And I'm getting to the point where I'm wondering if I should BOTHER to post said actions in detail if you're going to shoot them down anyway, especially when I look around and I see that doing so is no more or less likely to make me succeed, judging from the other players ALSO getting aspects of their characters ignored in favor of your desired outcome. SorO being only the simplest case.

Have you even read what I posted as Hugo? Really? Get your head outta the gutter for a minute.
It's kind of hard when no matter how you claim to read it, Hugo is invading her personal space and has to remind her in every single paragraph that she used to be his girlfriend. >.>

We're at the point where from Mei's imaginary point of view she hates Hugo so much she thinks he summoned the uber devil to kill us all and you still haven't gotten the hint to use a radio or cell phone to talk to her instead of trying to be so close Hugo can tell when she last showered. :(

Dude, I'm kind of trying to keep her from attacking more of you here, and MAYBE set some redeeming qualities for this guy, so again, would you kindly put your view of things aside for a second?
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #719 on: August 24, 2018, 12:02:56 AM »
Ugh, fine. I'm giving you an actual rundown of the actions. AGAIN. I just hope it's not wasted by bullshit this time.
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