Author Topic: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards  (Read 167580 times)

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #540 on: May 09, 2018, 09:18:24 PM »
I am surrounded by phillistines.  :shakefist
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #541 on: May 10, 2018, 12:10:33 AM »
Parrying the tail attacks with Parry. Are they adapting things mid combat and still following-up with tentacle attacks?
Forgot the first attack was avoided by moving away but she'd move after attempting to parry the first attack to gauge what the creature can do.
I'll try to post all my turn's actions tomorrow. Got way too much on my plate these days.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 12:14:04 AM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #542 on: May 10, 2018, 01:04:34 AM »
Parries fail, and yes they still follow up with tentacle attacks.

I'll try to post all my turn's actions tomorrow. Got way too much on my plate these days.
I suspected as much since you've been way too silent recently.

Been quite busy myself, like just noticed the bio-monsters didn't need Clear Mind to ignore Miss Chances since they already could do it from another of their abilities, hahaha.

Plus Stephanie and Teresa seem to have some immediate/free actions of their own left to do, so no big hurries.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #543 on: May 10, 2018, 07:27:46 AM »
Sound. I'll note though that an auto-hit effect such as strike does not prevent a parry since parry actually only applies on attacks that hit to negate them. If they hit all the same I'll probably just tank them.

Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #544 on: May 10, 2018, 02:18:55 PM »
Sorry I'll have my post up tomorrow. We are just dealing with the action on the enemy's turn right now, correct?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #545 on: May 11, 2018, 08:24:40 PM »
Sound. I'll note though that an auto-hit effect such as strike does not prevent a parry since parry actually only applies on attacks that hit to negate them. If they hit all the same I'll probably just tank them.
It's for another reason so they still hit.

Sorry I'll have my post up tomorrow. We are just dealing with the action on the enemy's turn right now, correct?
Yes, but if you can post your turn actions right away that would be even better.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #546 on: May 11, 2018, 09:40:41 PM »
Given the 50-page thread limit is still in place for software reasons, shouldn't we be moving onto a new IC thread?

Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #547 on: May 12, 2018, 01:36:47 PM »
Wondering; if a super robot paired weapon includes a dynamic melee weapon. And one is set to 'ranged weapon mode' (pretty much the case with the Gunlash at the moment). When/If the weapon combines into a heavy weapon, can it then be used as both melee and ranged/have to choose which/fails to combine?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #548 on: May 13, 2018, 03:37:26 AM »
Paired can only be used for melee, so since that's the default state, the combined weapon will be melee too, although it will inherit the hybrid property and can thus be changed.

Also just in case, the Conscience Android's spirit discount does not apply to spirits that don't have actual targets, like all of the self-buffs one. So Hope works, something like Bravery/Guard/Vigor does not.

EDIT: Also shouldn't there be some iterative penalties for your full attack? And after the first attacks expend your "one attack" spirits, do you have any other ability to help bypass DR/hardness?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 04:20:03 AM by oslecamo »

Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #549 on: May 13, 2018, 05:30:57 AM »
I'm sorry I don't understand the order of operations here and definitely feel like turns we're skipped between the enemy attacking and then the enemy attacking again and what is going on here

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #550 on: May 13, 2018, 06:11:04 AM »
Rough order, first party:
-Katherine flies in, triggering readied action from mass produced valsiones.
-Baha casting buff.
-Aryk armoring up.
-Hugo closes in, Nei uses some immediate action stuff to get some space from clingy ex.
-Amaterasu readies action for Overwhelming presence.

Then enemy actions:
-Ancient Armor Chalybus (that had only talked until now) closes in and punches Katherine's mecha.
-Amaterasu's action is triggered.
-Nei's pirates pull a tactical retreat.
-The mass produced valsiones don't act because they already had used their readied actions. Not 100% sure myself at this point but things are a bit blurry so I'm actually rounding in your favor, if you want I can also have the 5 non-stunned mass produced valsiones shoot some more.

And now party's turn again. No enemy had more than 1 round worth of actions so far.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #551 on: May 13, 2018, 09:08:57 AM »
Quote
Paired can only be used for melee, so since that's the default state, the combined weapon will be melee too, although it will inherit the hybrid property and can thus be changed.
Sound!
Quote
Also just in case, the Conscience Android's spirit discount does not apply to spirits that don't have actual targets, like all of the self-buffs one. So Hope works, something like Bravery/Guard/Vigor does not.
Not sure what you mean. The half spirit cost ability seems to apply to any kind of spirit provided it targets either of the two pilots. Self-buffs have a clear target: Yourself.
Some spirits are easier to share since they both pilot the same mecha. Though I now wonder, should Prayer also be able to target the other pilot of the mecha the same way it works between pilots of a combined mecha?
Quote
EDIT: Also shouldn't there be some iterative penalties for your full attack? And after the first attacks expend your "one attack" spirits, do you have any other ability to help bypass DR/hardness?
Aye, forgot about the iterative penalty. Thanks! That reminds me why I had initially decided to burn the last iterative attack on breaking the Alert, though depending on what whether there is a target switch earlier in the attacks the one bypassed may not be the fourth. Depending on what happens I might even just stick to one target so I'll just roll the Alert'd attack too just in case and apply the penalty to the results.
Forgot to apply Vigor to Lyubit via Copy/Paste.
No hardness/DR bypass for the attacks beyond the first of each pilot.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #552 on: May 13, 2018, 09:18:46 AM »
Quote
Paired can only be used for melee, so since that's the default state, the combined weapon will be melee too, although it will inherit the hybrid property and can thus be changed.
Sound!
Quote
Also just in case, the Conscience Android's spirit discount does not apply to spirits that don't have actual targets, like all of the self-buffs one. So Hope works, something like Bravery/Guard/Vigor does not.
Not sure what you mean. The half spirit cost ability seems to apply to any kind of spirit provided it targets either of the two pilots. Self-buffs have a clear target: Yourself.
It's not so clear to me, and definitely not the intention when I wrote the ability.

Some spirits are easier to share since they both pilot the same mecha. Though I now wonder, should Prayer also be able to target the other pilot of the mecha the same way it works between pilots of a combined mecha?
No.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #553 on: May 13, 2018, 09:29:25 AM »
Quote
It only costs half spirit to use if used while adjacent or piloting the same mecha as her Conscience companion and targeting either of them.
That's how it is written. But just to be clear... if Mao uses a self-buffing spirit, it does not actually count as targeting her? Because that's what's preventing me from using the extra Boss actions to use actions that targets herself.
I used the class spirit discount on Hope and Cloak. Are spirits that target mechas an invalid choice?
Sad for prayer. It seemed quite appropriate.

I'll update my post to add in a summary of the numbers for simpler reference and with the updated results, including iterative penalties and such. Noticed I forgot the bonus on disarms for wielding a single weapon.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 07:49:49 PM by Anomander »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #554 on: May 13, 2018, 11:02:50 AM »
How far away is everyone from Baha? Like Nei & Kat.

Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #555 on: May 13, 2018, 06:36:35 PM »
Rough order, first party:
-Katherine flies in, triggering readied action from mass produced valsiones.
-Baha casting buff.
-Aryk armoring up.
-Hugo closes in, Nei uses some immediate action stuff to get some space from clingy ex.
-Amaterasu readies action for Overwhelming presence.

Then enemy actions:
-Ancient Armor Chalybus (that had only talked until now) closes in and punches Katherine's mecha.
-Amaterasu's action is triggered.
-Nei's pirates pull a tactical retreat.
-The mass produced valsiones don't act because they already had used their readied actions. Not 100% sure myself at this point but things are a bit blurry so I'm actually rounding in your favor, if you want I can also have the 5 non-stunned mass produced valsiones shoot some more.

And now party's turn again. No enemy had more than 1 round worth of actions so far.

Oookay....I suppose that makes sense. Well, I guess I at least still have guard up then.

How do all those pirates manage to avoid provoking AoOs from me btw?

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #556 on: May 13, 2018, 07:29:10 PM »
How do all those pirates manage to avoid provoking AoOs from me btw?
Ready Actions technically take place before the Trigger. So my guess is if they were allowed to Ready against a hostile display which was further ambiguously defined as you moving close enough to punch them they would have shot you before you could reach them.

Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #557 on: May 13, 2018, 07:43:36 PM »
The pirates weren't the ones shooting me and the vaselions ranged weapons I wasn't going to waste aoos on anyways. I'm just talking about the pirates current move actions to go around and past me

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #558 on: May 17, 2018, 08:58:39 AM »
Oookay....I suppose that makes sense. Well, I guess I at least still have guard up then.
Correct.

How do all those pirates manage to avoid provoking AoOs from me btw?
High Tumble skillz for leet aerial maneuvers.

How far away is everyone from Baha? Like Nei & Kat.
Nei is now roughly 500 mu away from Baha, Kat is 150 mu (and that's why I'm not uploading maps since everybody's all over the place).

Quote
It only costs half spirit to use if used while adjacent or piloting the same mecha as her Conscience companion and targeting either of them.
That's how it is written. But just to be clear... if Mao uses a self-buffing spirit, it does not actually count as targeting her? Because that's what's preventing me from using the extra Boss actions to use actions that targets herself.
Good point, updated the Boss's limitation to not use the word target at all.

I used the class spirit discount on Hope and Cloak. Are spirits that target mechas an invalid choice?
Yes, but for now let's just roll with it since I'll admit the wording wasn't that clear. You may've noticed there's been a bunch of extra updates but they'll only apply after the current battle. You'll probably want to change your character too since I'll be adding a broad "no cheesing extra mecha upgrades through non-SRW classes that use mecha rules" ruling.

Sad for prayer. It seemed quite appropriate.
You also considered appropriate to stack spirit reductions until you can spam a bunch of the most expensive ones every turn, which is kinda the opposite of what spirits are supposed to be. Well, my bad for making several of those in the first place, added anti-stacking clause for that so enjoy it for this battle.

I'll update my post to add in a summary of the numbers for simpler reference and with the updated results, including iterative penalties and such. Noticed I forgot the bonus on disarms for wielding a single weapon.

Which reminds me you claim your first attack is bypassing Alert, however the closest ability of yours I can find is Fury from Bravery, but:

-Fury does not bypass Alert just as it does not bypass miss chances or any other effect that simply prevents you from hitting somebody.

Fury had already been explicitly pointed out as not bypassing Alert for quite some time, so that's a ruling that will be enforced this battle.

Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #559 on: May 17, 2018, 03:58:27 PM »
Hmm, damn. For some reason I felt sure larger weapons were harder to disarm but that's apparently wrong. Guess I'm losing my swords again cause I need a nat20 to even match that disarm check.

Couldn't find how disarming built-in weapons works tho.