Author Topic: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons  (Read 8463 times)

Offline Halia

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[PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« on: August 01, 2013, 11:38:54 PM »
So I had an... interesting realization. Cannons are unwieldly and take multiple full round actions from an entire team to reload, but are very powerful. It's the reason gunslingers only use them if they're going after something like a fortified gate. However. We're looking at 6d6 per shot, which is honestly pretty good for actual weapon damage, but that's because, you know, it's a siege weapon

Here's the thing though. The Dead Shot deed allows you to pool all your iterative attacks into one singular massively powerful shot. a level 11 gunslinger with a haste buff and the rapid shot feat is looking at a single cannonball dealing 30d6+(x5 dex) damage. 40d6+(x5 dex) if it's a fiend's mouth cannon, and really, you want it to be if you're already dumping thousands of gold into this strategy. Plus, if you manage to critical with even one shot, you have a very good chance of quadrupling the damage from the whole shebang.

Oh, yes, and as a little extra gravy, the damage is dealt as one lump sum, so Damage Reduction? What's that?

Let's take a level 20 gunslinger for a moment. If he has rapid shot and a haste buff, he technically has seven iterative attacks. Assuming he's using this with a fiend's mouth cannon, that's 56d6 damage.

We can assume he has a minimum of a +10 dexterity bonus, which is quite frankly not all that large for the level it's at, which bumps the damage up to 56d6+70.

Assuming he's also taken Improved Critical (Cannon), he has a 10% chance per hit to make it a critical hit, which on such a weapon is x4 damage. If you do the math, that's a 52% chance to critical hit with this thing, so you're looking at 224d6+280 damage.

This sets the damage at 404 damage minimum. 1064 damage on average. 1624 at most.

Assuming I didn't miss something, this makes a gunslinger with a bunch of cannons he can pull out of a bag of holding one of the highest direct damage classes in the game. I've been known to miss glaringly obvious things though, so if someone catches it, let me know. Even if it doesn't get a critical hit, that's still an average damage of well over 200; high enough to turn most enemies into paste, or at least leave them feeling like they shouldn't continue fighting anymore.

Offline ketaro

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2013, 02:56:01 AM »
Um, there is no mention of dropping on some sort of auto-reloading magic despite that you mentioned it takes several rounds from a team of people to reload.
Jus' sayin' :p

Offline veekie

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2013, 04:04:34 AM »
So, basically something like this?

But more seriously, as a Siege Engine, transportation would be the main obstacle to deployment. It takes 2 hours to assemble, and they are also large enough that the game didn't bother to set a weight. Fiend's Mouth cannons are fixed emplacement, you have to break down the whole thing to move it at all.

Maybe if you had a really large portable dimension.
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Offline ketaro

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2013, 04:39:23 AM »
So, basically something like this?

But more seriously, as a Siege Engine, transportation would be the main obstacle to deployment. It takes 2 hours to assemble, and they are also large enough that the game didn't bother to set a weight. Fiend's Mouth cannons are fixed emplacement, you have to break down the whole thing to move it at all.

Maybe if you had a really large portable dimension.

Probably something more like this:p
It has to have something to transport it, fully assembled, after all.

Offline Halia

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2013, 01:52:59 PM »
Hmm. Reasonably speaking, wouldn't it be possible to create an emplacement site inside, say, a bag of holding or a portable hole? That way, just opening up the hole would do it, I suppose.

That said, commandeering the druid's animal companion as a mobile turret? Genius. I think the Mammoth rider Prestige Class would let you have a companion capable of carrying at least a cannon, if not a fiend mouth.

Offline CaptRory

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2013, 02:18:51 PM »
As far as weight issues, you might have to make it a Mithril Cannon. That'd cut the weight right in half. Could you animate the cannon, or at least the reloading bits, so the gunslinger could crew it by himself?

Offline Halia

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2013, 03:57:16 PM »
Animate Object would technically work on a set of rigging, I think. You can instruct it to reload the cannon when you're not using it, and fire something like a musket or pistol in the interim. If the GM argues that you can't animate the rigging because it's part of the cannon, you just can't enchant the cannon for the spell to work. After that, make a permanent sack of abundant ammo filled with cannonballs - enchantments cast on the abundant ammo sack tranfer to the otherwise nonmagical cannonballs, so you could even load these things up with adamantine balls and a mithril cannon and you'd never run out.

Hilarious note; abundant ammo with shots made of adamantine gives you an unlimited amount of adamantine.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2013, 04:11:58 PM »
Toward the end of the BG version of this board,
there was a serious discussion about the PsyWar
soulknife-y ACF and it's maximum possibilities.
You could use Call Weapon to get a Ballista for instance.

But yeah ... how to fire it quickly , wasn't discussed.
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2013, 11:31:13 AM »
Since siege weapons count as exotic weapons....

DANCING CANNONS!
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Offline veekie

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 03:45:46 PM »
Dancing being melee only, that might be a little difficult.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
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Offline CaptRory

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 06:06:57 PM »
Put bayonets on them? Hehehe.

*Rolls up a Paladin with a Mithril Cannon with a bayonet*  :)

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2013, 11:49:08 AM »
Err... use it as an improvised weapon?  Maybe dip into drunken master
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Offline Halia

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 08:46:37 PM »
Quote from: SRD
Bayonets are close combat weapons designed to fit into the grooves or muzzles of crossbows and firearms.
Looks like nothing prevents Bayonets from being affixed to cannons

Offline phyxion

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 04:20:49 PM »
You don't necessarily need to use cannons for this. Consider the large musket, 3d6 base damage and can be used by (for example) Tieflings with the large limbs trait. For those with accommodating GMs or as a purely theoretical exercise, Gargantuan muskets at 6d6 (same as medium cannon) could be used if you spend the cash for a scroll of PAO and use it to become a Cloud Giant (huge, with the Oversized Weapon (Ex) ability, and according to the Polymorph table this change scores a 9, meaning it's permanent). Of course, then you're huge, so you'd be the obvious enemy target... but that's really quite well justified when you can put out ~1k+ DPR.

To make this absurdly silly, throw in Mythic. (This came up because I might be playing in the Wrath of the Righteous AP soonish.) I have a build that can do (max, assuming crits and power expenditure) a bit over 17500 damage in the surprise round, before anyone else can act, using just a large musket. As a standard action, with no MP spent or any other special circumstances, it does 18d6+534+1 point of str or dex damage. I would imagine (and I'll probably post a followup with the build tomorrow) that this could get cranked way up as a cloud giant.

Offline Slippery_Chicken

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Re: [PF] Gunslingers and Cannons
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2014, 10:28:57 PM »
Well, if you can get around the reload time, the aiming time, and the deployment time, it would be a fine weapon  :D

So, basically something like this?

But more seriously, as a Siege Engine, transportation would be the main obstacle to deployment. It takes 2 hours to assemble, and they are also large enough that the game didn't bother to set a weight. Fiend's Mouth cannons are fixed emplacement, you have to break down the whole thing to move it at all.

Maybe if you had a really large portable dimension.

Probably something more like this:p
It has to have something to transport it, fully assembled, after all.

Maybe you could mount a cannon on a gyro-copter. They "typically" mount double hackbuts and culverins, so it might be possible. If you can get the pilot to contribute move actions to reloading, you could fire it every round.