Author Topic: What to do about excessive character-swapping?  (Read 4842 times)

Offline RedWarlock

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What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« on: January 31, 2013, 05:21:56 PM »
I've got a problem. Several players in my current game keep swapping characters. I'm trying to figure out a way to curb this without driving them off all together.

Right now, my players can bring in a new character at the average XP/party level. I don't generally have a problem with this, as it lets new players jump in and not feel left behind, but I've got a few abuser players who have alt-itis, swapping out every 3-4 weeks, which this table-rule facilitates.

I'm debating swapping it up, saying that they start at half or three-quarters the XP total of the rest of the party. This would put them a few levels behind, with the gap increasing with levels. (At 1/2 XP, a level 20 party gets a new character at level 14. At 3/4 XP, a level 20 party gets a new character at 17.) They're lower on XP, so the standard XP chart puts them gaining XP faster to make up the difference, so they will catch up, but only if they stick with it.

What do you guys think?
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Offline Bauglir

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 05:31:37 PM »
If you've talked to them and they refuse to listen, then I suppose you need to do something mechanical, yeah. This works as well as anything, but you might want to up the multipliers for being behind in XP, so that they catch up faster. Starting out at a lower XP total, and thereby having less character to work with, hopefully will be incentive enough. Do make sure you explain why you're doing it. Probably go with 3/4 - level 14 characters in a level 20 party will have significant trouble contributing, and you don't want to punish them so harshly that the game stops being fun at all.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 08:35:46 PM »
If you think it's a big deal, you can start them out lower level, but I wouldn't do more than one level. Anything more than one level, and they won't even be able to justify a spot at the table. If you follow the XP rules as written, they'll catch up fairly quickly.
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Offline GenghisDon

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 01:55:58 AM »
eh, put them one level behind; that ought be enough.

Personally, I usually give such characters the same XP/level, but considerably less than standard WBL.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 01:57:39 AM by GenghisDon »

Offline linklord231

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 03:15:55 AM »
eh, put them one level behind; that ought be enough.

Personally, I usually give such characters the same XP/level, but considerably less than standard WBL.

This hurts certain characters a lot more than others.  For instance, most martial types need significantly more WBL to stay competitive relative to caster types.  A level 20 fighter with lvl 18 WBL is worse off than a lvl 18 fighter with lvl 20 WBL. 
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 09:12:24 AM »
eh, put them one level behind; that ought be enough.

Personally, I usually give such characters the same XP/level, but considerably less than standard WBL.
In addition to linklord's complaints, the other problem with hitting starting wealth instead of XP is that the system is designed to catch you up in XP, but it doesn't handle wealth the same way.
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Offline GenghisDon

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 10:26:25 AM »
I'm aware of both points, but am quite willing to punish "excessive character-swapping" so as to discourage it. One level behind is a good start, if it fails, however...

As for hurting some types more than others, well, the amount less is variable. If they are bringing in a tier 1 type they can be hit hard (possibly even naked :???), while a tier 4 might be only a level behind on WBL. In truth, it's mostly a hypothetical situation for me, as nearly all my players don't want to switch characters often, or do so only with good reason. The OP is describing a situation of a player(s) doing it willy-nilly. He sounds like he wants it to stop.

I'd guess such a lack of investment in their characters is indicative of dissatisfaction with the game in more areas than just their PC.

Offline Kethrian

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 08:26:50 PM »
Here's another rule that you could implement: 1st character in a campaign, full starting xp/wealth, so that new players are able to get in without problem.  Characters after the 1st, however, start at -2 levels, with minimum xp to get that level, so they will be behind compared to even a Raised character.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 11:56:04 PM »
Mechanically its not a problem (so long as XP and WBL are conserved). Plot-wise things get wonky. The biggest reason its an issue is the time to review/learn characters. Players must respect the DM's time.

Offline SolEiji

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2013, 07:41:13 AM »
Oh hey, when did the boards return?  I'm so out of the loop!

Amusingly I had this same issue not long ago.  The players gave me a nice idea; you can have all the backup characters you want but you can only play one at a time, and you keep playing them until they die (and you choose not to revive) or you retire them.  It cuts down on swapping and makes swapping a bigger deal, since there's no swap-backs.
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Offline Empirate

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 06:01:36 PM »
Novel idea maybe: make them care about their characters, so they don't want to swap. Devote story arcs to their (latest) characters, tie them into the game, make sure they understand [personX] is an integral part of the game now. Maybe even give them something (mechanically) nice. You know, carrots.  :flutter

If they don't bite, whip out the sticks, of course.  :shakefist Lower level might work, but constraining their options might work even better. "You wanna make a new character for no reason but that you want a new one? Well, we have a Fighter 20 spot available at the moment, how's that sound? Other positions? We're good, sorry!"
Another option would be to constrain point buy: if the old character didn't die 'honorably' (let the group as a whole decide what that means), replacements get -4 build points. Cumulatively.

Offline Cyclone Joker

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 06:21:39 PM »
Figure out why they keep swapping character. If they're bored, make them play a Chameleon, Binder, something equally flexible, or, if you're up to it, a prep-caster. They might not get bored with the ability to change so much whenever they feel like it. Either way, work with them.

Offline veekie

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2013, 11:23:32 PM »
Novel idea maybe: make them care about their characters, so they don't want to swap. Devote story arcs to their (latest) characters, tie them into the game, make sure they understand [personX] is an integral part of the game now. Maybe even give them something (mechanically) nice. You know, carrots.  :flutter
I tried that before. It wound up clusterfucky because when they change characters anyway(because their primary consideration was the new character, it didn't really matter to them), plot hooks and arcs tied to the old PC becomes shredded instead.
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Offline Empirate

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2013, 03:49:18 AM »
Yeah, well, in that case you're good to go "guys, you're wrecking the game and have no consideration for how hard my job actually is even without you morons fucking with me. Cut it out, or there'll be consequences". They don't listen, sticks again. Big sticks. So, basically, diplomacy.

Sounds to me like you got a case of the gamer type who's more interested in playing his own game, rather than your (as in, the whole group's) common game. They like to create characters and see them in action for a bit, then try something new. Newsflash for them: this isn't what roleplaying is all about, unless you're keeping it really oldschool (where character death often necessitated swapping). They want to keep it up, they're welcome to assist you DMing by creating and statting up interesting NPCs, how's that sound?

Other than that, make it utterly unattractive to switch - maybe even to the point they're horribly afraid of stupidly losing their current characters. Or just forbid it outright. Having a talk with them, or better yet, with the group as a whole, would be only decent beforehand, though, but I guess you know that already. To me it sounds like they make the game harder on you and potentially less fun for at least you and maybe the rest of the group as well - so you're within your rights to do something about it.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2013, 07:28:03 PM »
I think Empirate may have hit it one the head.

You'll need to either severely penalize them for trying to switch or ban it. Either way explain why them changing is causing you too much extra work.

Example: from now on, there's a cumulative -1 level each time you swap/switch characters.

Also giving them another outlet for these 'urges', by making rough npcs might help.

If they continue with the severe penalties, then you know they're either unhappy, or said before, just wanting to see a new build/idea in action and aren't there for the same reasons as the rest of you.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 07:53:23 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 08:59:51 PM »
I would be inclined to go with a straight up, "I'm sorry but I just don't have the time or energy to deal with vetting builds and incorporating new characters while also progressing the game for the existing characters" and ban swapping rather than penalizing it. It's more honest and less likely to seem punitive because it makes it about the players being nice to the DM rather than the DM being mean to the players. Also, certain breeds of mechanics heavy players will take a swapping penalty as a challenge and that's the last thing you want.

Offline Bauglir

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2013, 10:05:15 PM »
That is a good point. Since they seem to be accomplishing some swaps by way of cataclysmic stupidity, you're basically in a position of having to kick them out of the game if they go for the swap, though. You've got a hard line to walk between letting them keep playing after a legitimate and unexpected death, and them gaming whatever leniency you're prepared to allow. There's a significant risk of accusations of favoritism, so be prepared.

EDIT: I might be thinking of a different thread. If they're not accomplishing swaps by being deliberately stupid, disregard.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 01:09:45 AM by Bauglir »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: What to do about excessive character-swapping?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 04:18:03 PM »
(iffy sketchy situation)


The classes could go via degree of complicatedness:
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They'd all play very different, and lack of knowledge
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