Author Topic: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!  (Read 17206 times)

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« on: November 06, 2011, 08:55:26 PM »
Doll Judgement


"Of course I'm happy living only surrounded by dolls. They never complain of anything!"-Alice Margatroid, Doll Judgement Master

History
(Suggested theme music)

Legend says the first Doll Judgement user was a merchant that sold her soul in hell to learn magic and eventualy settled in a mysterious forest after her dark master was defeated by a powerfull priestess and she had no interest in world-conquest plans. Since she had no more need for money or mortal allies, she took doll crafting as a hobby on her breaks from studying the arcane mysteries, an art she had first learned when she was still mortal. Altough she could easily craft any dolls she wanted with magic instantly, there was a certain satisfaction doing it by hand trough mundane means. It created a special connection.

After a century of this lifestyle, the magician had learned how to channel her spirit trough her dolls. They weren't exactly independent constructs and ultimely were manifestations of her own will, and thus they would answer instantly to her commands. She took particular pleasure in fighting with this unique skill the few creatures that challenged her and many stories were written and forgoten about her.

The magician never took disciples, but did abandon several of her dolls for unknown reasons, that ended up on the hands of others. Altough not all of the new doll owners had magic powers, they each were capable of stablishing a connection with the dolls and learn the Doll Judgement discipline.

Now Doll Judgement users can be found a little everywhere. Usually solitary creatures, many would question their sanity for their choice of weapon, but a Doll Judgement user rarely cares about what others think of her anyway. Their dolls are all the companionship they really need, and they don't give them few worries. They give them none.

Any creature tha hast a level of a ToB class may swap one of his availables disciplines for this one.

Key skill:Craft(doll). Doll Judgement maneuvers only work with hand-crafted dolls (no magic or magicitems involved on their creation), and thus any user of this discipline must know how to supply herself. Creating something with your own hands imbues it with a special spirit that cannot be replicated by any magic. Asking others for help on the creation process also ruins the doll for the purpose of this discipline.

Favored Weapons:
Any weapons wielded by your dolls automatically count as favored weapons for Doll Judgement.

New Equipment: Doll

(click to show/hide)

New Feats:

(click to show/hide)

Maneuver List


1st level

Artful Sacrifice: Strike–sacrifice doll to deal damage to anoponent.
Dolls in Sea: Boost–All your dolls can make a 5-foot step.
Doll Veredict:Strike-Doll fires ray of energy.
Doll Placement:Counter– Reposition one doll.
Puppeteer Theater: Stance–deploy and control dolls.

2nd level
Little Legion: Strike–Attack one oponent with multiple dolls.
Straw Doll Kamikaze: Strike–Sacrifice Doll to deal damage in an area.
Volatile Doll : Counter–make doll explode when destroyed.
Reincarnated Doll: Boost–recover destroyed dolls.

3rd level
Return Inanimateness: Strike–sacrifice doll to deal greater damage to one oponent, may daze.
Blue Benevolent  Dolls:Stance- As Puppeteer Theater, but control less dolls and they can now perform attacks of oportunity.
Wonderfull Dolls: Strike-Dolls blind anyone nearby.
Doll Arrangement :Strike- dolls attack in coordination and perform a basic combat maneuver.

4th level
Doll's War: Strike–Attack multiple oponents with multiple dolls.
Soulless Folk Dance: Boost–Dolls attack better for the round.
Crimson Doll:Strike-Doll releases larger beam of energy
Doll Activation : Boost-Doll performs one of your special attacks.

5th level
Cursed Doll: Boost–Attach an attacking doll to the target, cursing it.
Guardian Doll: Counter-Sacrifice a doll to protect yourself.
Returning Dolls:Strike-Send Dolls to attack a distant target, then pull them back.
High-Explosive Pawn:Strike-sacrifice doll to deal massive damage to area, may daze.

6th level
Hanged Immortal Doll-Counter-redirect attack on a doll to an enemy.
Doll Cremation :Strike–Sacrifice doll to engulf an area in scorching energy.
Scarlet Haired Dolls: Stance–As Blue Benevolet Dolls, but controll less dolls and they now block line of sight and effect to oponents.
Traditional Elegant Dolls:Boost-Recover and reposition multiple dolls.
Goliath Doll Prototype: boost-make one of your dolls grow to huge size.

7th level
Dolls of the Round Table: Counter-Dolls sacrifice themselves to protect and avenge you.
Suicide Squad: Strike–sacrifice multiple dolls to unleash devastation.
Thousand Spear Dolls : Strike-All dolls attack in simultaneous.

8th level

Futuristic Puppet:Boost: Temporaly place your consciouness inside a doll.
Eerily Luminous dolls: Stance–As Scarlet Haired Dolls, but control less dolls for superior stats.
Seeker Dolls: Strike- dolls release storm of beams.
Goliath Doll Test:boost-make one of your dolls grow to gargantuan size, and they gain a pair of powerfull armblades.

9th level
Lunatic Goliath Doll:Stance- Make one of your dolls grow to colossal size.
The Phantom of the Grand Guignol: Strike–unseal a disturbing Doll that terrorrizes your oponents.



Doll Judgement users never fight alone.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 05:26:03 AM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2012, 07:22:07 PM »
Maneuvers explanations:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 05:29:39 AM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 11:57:28 AM »
-Added "base" and "tactical" feats.
-Cleaned up a bit and added new images.
-High-Explosive pawn reworked to be more interesting, check out the new doll grenade!

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 04:03:46 PM »
Rainbow Puppeteer now allows you to use your Dex as your casting stat.

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2013, 09:07:05 PM »
Questions about the Special Doll feat:

-Is it, like a familiar, supposed to have an effective HD equal to the character level of its maker?

-It benefits from spells and boosts used on yourself but can you channel your abilities through it like the other dolls?

-Any balance reason why you can use the Immortal Doll with DJ stances and not the Special Doll? (besides maybe making it impossible to use both the Special Doll and the Immortal Doll to trigger Seeker Wire?)

-What happens when you enter a DJ stance? Does it just deanimates and falls to the ground where it was, enter some kind of suspended animation until you leave the stance or does it work like dolls do when you leave the stance (you drop it somewhere within range or retrieve it inside your clothes)?

-It has a speed of 30ft and is limited to the range of the strings but does move like stance dolls do, floating/hanging in mid-air or do they walk around?

About dolls in general: Can they really only be equipped with a single weapon as written? Mostly wondering if they can have a 1h-weapon and a shield (as depicted in many pictures), or a projectile weapon along with the ammo required to shoot it.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2013, 05:55:35 PM »
-No. "effective HD equal to something else" most often than not ends up being more headache than it's worth.
-Yes, it still counts as a Doll as the described new item.
-Because Special Doll was made because of that Negima-Mary-Sue-vampire-loli-that-I-can't-remember-the-name-now, and she only ever uses one doll at a time (if that, she seems to have retrained midseason).
-Deanimates and falls.
-Walks.

I'm assuming doll shields are just decorative props, like their ribbons, clothes and whatnot. And no ranged weapons because that would make many of the maneuvers drastically stronger when suddenly your dolls can focus fire a target at a time regardless of their position. That's for what the doll beam maneuvers are.

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2013, 06:53:01 PM »
-Then what is their HD when they are targeted by effects that depend on the HD of the target?
-Alright.
- o_O
-Alright.
-I guess it'll make a good rider.  :plotting

Not sure about the ranged weapons. I recall most of the DJ doll-attack maneuvers from being melee only anyway.
Sounds good for the shield (in the cases where a shield isn't used as a melee weapon).

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 08:35:04 AM »
Things are a bit slow and I felt like reviewing the discipline for possible corrections. Thought it'd be a good idea before I start using the maneuvers in there.

Overall I find it to be one of my favorites here. I'd even say I prefer it to most of my own work. I like the general structure in design, concept and build flexibility.

I think my only disappointment, and it is relatively minor, is that most of the names of the spellcards/skills have been shortened. Shanghai and Hourai have been removed, among other things and I'm not sure where some maneuver come from if not perhaps from very different translations (Doll Veredict, Puppet Theater, Wonderfull Dolls, Guardian Doll, Traditional Elegant Dolls, Goliath Doll Prototype/Lunatic Goliath Doll).
Alice has an impressive selection of spellcards to choose from but the idea that you were willing to make some up anyway for design purposes is something I approve. Especially considering you had decided to only use spellcards for your disciplines.

It is excellent work.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2013, 12:34:51 PM »
Thanks for the compliments! :D

Still gotta polish Gate Guard some more, but I guess this should take priority as you want to use it.

But before that, I must say that this was the first ToBhou school I made. Just loved how Alice used the dolls in the different games, and I had to implement some analogue to D&D when I noticed there wasn't anything remotely close in the rules. You notice some of my design philosophies here, like removing/replacing the names of people or places from the original spellcards (altough Goliath Doll was more of a matter of not knowing where to put it, thus ending up making two maneuvers and one stance).

Immortal Doll-Why would you ever want to sacrifice the Immortal Doll? You'll usually have other dolls for that job. If anything, I want to give a reason so that the Immortal Doll is the last you want to sacrifice if anything.

Lemming's Parade-You have a point in that's a lot of attacks. However since I intend to limit down the "All dolls attack" maneuvers, that should cut down the offensive potential.  "A stream of dolls" is easy to say, but I simply couldn't figure a way to stat it up in a turn-based game.

Rainbow Puppeteer-Completely intentional, as the idea was to give some love to sorcerors and non-specialized wizards. And anti-adapative style writing is intentional as well.

Special Doll- I must ask, why the insistence on wanting to sacrifice your most expensive dolls instead of the mass produced expendables? :psyduck Anyway if my memory doesn't fail me, this feat's intended effect was to make "one-doll user" more viable. Thus giving it synergy with the lots-of-dolls stances just wouldn't make much sense. I guess I can swap the need for a stance and put the need for a maneuver (done).

Artful Sacrifice-Added clause about doll movement at the start of maneuvers.

Doll Veredict-Doll sniping is an intended feature, not a bug.

Dolls In sea-Thing is, if you take a 5-feet step, your dolls move 5 feet in the exact direction you took. With Dolls in Sea, each doll takes a 5-feet step in the direction you want them.

Puppeteer Theater-Ups, added range. As for movement, they accompany your movements in the exact way, meaning your relative positions remain the same. You go 30 feet forward, they all go 30 feet forward. You take a 5 feet step left, they all take a 5-feet step left.

Volatile Doll-Changed to affected instead of destroyed.

Reincarnated Doll-Same square as enemy if it suicide bombed them, weapon returns to them from whatever position it is now.

Wonderful Dolls-Hmm, put a capped DC increase.

Doll Arrangement-Eeerrr, it already says you can use your own size. If you have a Goliath out, you can just direct channel grapples trough her instead of using this maneuver. Anyway halved the bonus for stacking dolls.

Doll's War & Little Legion-Put a cap on how many dolls you can use to focus fire a target, with Little Legion being able to get one more attack (but at a single target). Also I believe I already had explained in the PS ooc thread, the dolls attack as if you were in their position, except you use the doll's weapon stats instead of your own (if any).

Doll Activation-White Raven Tactics is still lower level, gives a full turn worth of actions, no limitations or sacrifices and can be used on allies. And Ending Sign "ignores harmful effects" ranks pretty high to me.

Cursed Doll-But making it trigger on aoos would make it impossible to use it for its intended purpose of wanting to curse who you want... :(

High-Explosive Pawn-Cleaned up all around, added clause that it self-destructs if forced to stop.

Scarlet Haired Dolls-Must re-enter the stance.

Suicide Squad-Cleaned up as well. We must always remember that People die when they're killed Dolls are destroyed when they self-destruct. :p

Thousand Spear Dolls-Added cap as done with Little Legion and Doll's War, lower as well. Anyway pounce isn't usually something you can usually grab while mantaining full initiator level, and charges have plenty of limitations of their own (lemming's parade for example would be self-defeating because the dolls cannot charge), so if you can pull it off, you kinda deserve to deliver a whooping to your enemy if you ask me.

Futuristic Puppet-The doll is still channeling your abilities, so its base speed is equal to your own. Anyway I would say the biggest advantage is adding your full ranks in Craft (Doll) to attack and damage rolls for 1 round, whereas other school's lower level boosts are adding considerably smaller bonus. You can also use it as an expendable long-range scout to check mysterious areas and whatnot, which is also something I didn't want to add too early. If you think it's too weak I guess I could add the super self-destruct explosion from the game.

Goliath Doll Test-
Hmm, I can see why you complained about Futuristic Puppet after seeing this one. Anyway the secret penalty is that you're attacking with the goliath doll's natural weapons, instead of some haxxorz magic stick. Anyway nerfed it a bit (only ignores half DR now) and overhauled Futuristic Puppet. (trivia: the Goliath Doll line was added after the other maneuvers were when Prime32 pointed out Cirno's boss battle. And that's how 9th level ToBhou stances started).

Lunatic Goliath Doll-Clarified that the stance doesn't stack with the Goliath boosts. Anyway it's supposed to be pretty much indestructible, since not even the Strongest could defeat it directly. Notice however that, like the other Doll Judgement stance, it takes a Fullround action to initiate it (and I'm pretty sure you can't enter a Stance if you're already on it).


The Phantom of the Grand Guignol-
Added confusion clause that doesn't make it default to ganking on whoever's attacking them, clarified blindness and daze. As for threat level, well, added a new delay mechanic. Takes 4 turns to unleash now, but having your controlled dolls in the area speeds it up. Also means more sinergy with the school, since something that always irked me was that this maneuver didn't really have any direct connection with dolls like the others.


Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 10:30:40 PM »
Immortal Doll
Quote
-Why would you ever want to sacrifice the Immortal Doll? You'll usually have other dolls for that job. If anything, I want to give a reason so that the Immortal Doll is the last you want to sacrifice if anything.
That is the issue I put forward. It can be sacrificed but doing so is a very bad idea unless you really are desperate.
Which is why I suggested to have those dolls get a special sacrifice option that does not auto-destroy them.
Most of our discipline feats allow the adept to use its special mechanics more effectively. Divine Flame gives better Heat/Overheat control, Riverside View has that feat that gives a money bank and so on. This one could help by giving you a doll that doesn't get destroyed when used with maneuvers that sacrifices the doll, maybe only while it replaces one of the dolls controlled by the stances. It is a reliable doll that allows you to use all your maneuvers even if it is your last remaining doll.

Lemming's Parade-
Quote
You have a point in that's a lot of attacks. However since I intend to limit down the "All dolls attack" maneuvers, that should cut down the offensive potential.  "A stream of dolls" is easy to say, but I simply couldn't figure a way to stat it up in a turn-based game.
I recall you made rules for creating mobs. Could perhaps make a 'mob of dolls' creature or something like that that temporarily helps you. For one round or as long as a given trigger is always met. With concentration or some such.

Rainbow Puppeteer-
Quote
Completely intentional, as the idea was to give some love to sorcerors and non-specialized wizards. And anti-adapative style writing is intentional as well.
Alright. I thought they already had a lot of love compared to the less orthodox arcane spellcasters.
New thought though: Since the maneuvers are prepared and injected into the spellcasting system, should they also be able to be modifier by metamagics?

Special Doll-
Quote
Anyway if my memory doesn't fail me, this feat's intended effect was to make "one-doll user" more viable. Thus giving it synergy with the lots-of-dolls stances just wouldn't make much sense.
The problem is that "one-doll user" isn't much of a viable approach to this discipline. You might as well go into something else.

(click to show/hide)

Just to put things into perspective, as it currently is, the Special Doll is mostly a familiar/companion that you want to use with any discipline but Doll Judgement. Especially considering the doll would also benefit from that other discipline's stance.

=======================

Quote
Doll Veredict-Doll sniping is an intended feature, not a bug.
Well aware. I wasn't saying that it was a mistake. Just saying the range is probably scaling higher than it should. The sniping effect could be reached early with a high starting range that then scales slower. Just an opinion.

Quote
Dolls In sea-Thing is, if you take a 5-feet step, your dolls move 5 feet in the exact direction you took. With Dolls in Sea, each doll takes a 5-feet step in the direction you want them.
I thought so. It doesn't change much to my thoughts on it. I think it a good alternative would be that it would allow it to relocate dolls more effectively whenever the adept moves. Instead of exactly following your movements the dolls can move wherever you want them move.

Quote
Puppeteer Theater-Ups, added range. As for movement, they accompany your movements in the exact way, meaning your relative positions remain the same. You go 30 feet forward, they all go 30 feet forward. You take a 5 feet step left, they all take a 5-feet step left.
Alright. So one should adapt his movement so the dolls don't get blocked by obstacles.
I think they are supposed to provoke AoO by movement though. Your new clause prevents that since it doesn't say they do (and stances are also maneuvers, except when they aren't).
Otherwise, dolls are two sizes smaller than their maker, so they can be, say medium dolls if the maker is huge. Even large if he's gargantuan.
No matter their actual size, this stance makes them act as difficult terrain and some maneuvers send them into the space of a target. To work as difficult terrain I imagine they don't actual occupy space as a creature does, except for other dolls since they cannot share space. A doll being moved as you move toward an obstacle to stop there and a doll running into that doll would be stopped as well. Sounds simple enough in theory so it should be simple to enact in practice. Good!

Quote
Wonderful Dolls-Hmm, put a capped DC increase.
Increase of DC is a good idea but tricky since it can easily be achieved the moment you have access to it.
The increase can be progressively raised since it can be as high as a level 9 maneuver, so perhaps the maximum DC increase could rise at the same rate.
I was thinking that perhaps it could work a little like the picture you used; if you have dolls adjacent to you they could do a radius effect centered on you that increases for each doll adjacent to you. Or perhaps just have the dolls adjacent to each-other with the radius being determined by one doll of your choice or even all of them, depending on the radius.

Quote
Doll's War & Little Legion-Put a cap on how many dolls you can use to focus fire a target, with Little Legion being able to get one more attack (but at a single target). Also I believe I already had explained in the PS ooc thread, the dolls attack as if you were in their position, except you use the doll's weapon stats instead of your own (if any).
Its even better than I thought. The caps on the attacks is pretty generous but at least it prevents the crazies.

Quote
Doll Activation-White Raven Tactics is still lower level, gives a full turn worth of actions, no limitations or sacrifices and can be used on allies. And Ending Sign "ignores harmful effects" ranks pretty high to me.
I'm not comparing it to White Raven Tactics, I'm comparing it to Ending Sign. I don't understand why you even bring it up since you decided to get rid of maneuvers like it, even using it as an example of those you were not going to use. So whatever it can do and cannot do is irrelevant.
Ending Sign is right where it is and I think this one would be right as a level 5 instead of 4.
If you want to keep things as they are, I am happy to let you do just that. Just being honest here.

Quote
Cursed Doll-But making it trigger on aoos would make it impossible to use it for its intended purpose of wanting to curse who you want... :(
I'm not saying you should make it trigger only upon doll AoOs. I'm saying that it might be a good idea to make it a counter.
Since it would be a counter with an initiation time of an Immediate Action, and that the trigger requires an attack that harms from the doll, it would then be possible to initiate it from a doll's AoO.
Thinking about this maneuver, I thought I'd comment that I find wise that worded that the duration and doll resets if it is destroyed by attacking it. Sure, you can reset it yourself by attacking your own doll but at least you can't just use that doll for a maneuver that would sacrifice it to have that destruction make the reset.

Sacrificing Dolls
I mentioned that it would be a good idea to keep the terminology consistent across the maneuvers, always mentioning that a doll is sacrificed whenever it is the case instead of insinuating that it is.
The main use of staying consistent in the terminology, I think, would be that if you make a feat or some other effect that allows certain things to happen whenever a doll is sacrificed each instance where it would apply will be very clear. I concede that is quite minor. Perhaps I just really like consistency as a mean to clarify intent.

Quote
Thousand Spear Dolls-Added cap as done with Little Legion and Doll's War, lower as well. Anyway pounce isn't usually something you can usually grab while mantaining full initiator level, and charges have plenty of limitations of their own (lemming's parade for example would be self-defeating because the dolls cannot charge), so if you can pull it off, you kinda deserve to deliver a whooping to your enemy if you ask me.
I am of the opinion that no maneuver should allow that particular kind of whooping. Especially considering it isn't that difficult to get and the sacrifices involved are not that penalizing. Doll limit per target or not, nothing in this game should allow a single individual to make that many full attack actions per round, no matter his build, never mind just one ability.

Quote
Goliath Doll Test-Hmm, I can see why you complained about Futuristic Puppet after seeing this one. Anyway the secret penalty is that you're attacking with the goliath doll's natural weapons, instead of some haxxorz magic stick. Anyway nerfed it a bit (only ignores half DR now) and overhauled Futuristic Puppet.
Not after seeing this one. This one has a problem of its own.
It does have haxxorz magic sticks: they make two attacks per attack. That certainly isn't how natural weapons work.
The maneuver would be perfect if that detail was removed. Don't mind the DR bypass at all.
The rending is crazy enough already. Even Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip can't reach those numbers and rending damage is all it does.

Quote
Lunatic Goliath Doll-Clarified that the stance doesn't stack with the Goliath boosts. Anyway it's supposed to be pretty much indestructible, since not even the Strongest could defeat it directly. Notice however that, like the other Doll Judgement stance, it takes a Fullround action to initiate it (and I'm pretty sure you can't enter a Stance if you're already on it).
Isn't being pretty much indestructible a problem rather than an interesting niche?
I noticed the fullround action initiation time. Not much an issue when the doll gets it own action set.
If it falls in battle somehow, you can pop a new one right away. If it is getting weak, very debuffed or very low you could even leave your stance with a swift action and enter it again with a fullround action.

Quote
The Phantom of the Grand Guignol- Added confusion clause that doesn't make it default to ganking on whoever's attacking them, clarified blindness and daze. As for threat level, well, added a new delay mechanic. Takes 4 turns to unleash now, but having your controlled dolls in the area speeds it up. Also means more sinergy with the school, since something that always irked me was that this maneuver didn't really have any direct connection with dolls like the others.
Unavoidable confusion delayed or not is still unavoidable. Not sure the conclusion clause is a solution as opposed to tweaked odds, like a 50% chance to act normally and 50% to do pretty much nothing) but it does prevent the adept from manipulating the confused targets into wasting their round into attacking dolls. But I appreciate that you made a change to it.
That aside, I love the idea of the delayed mechanism. You can still use it on the same round, plan for the round it takes effect or even initiate it before battle begins to save in actions later. Either way, the real charm of it, imo, is that it goes well with its name. To use the maneuver quickly, you have to "set the stage" by getting the dolls together and then the puppet-show performance begins (no perform check required :p). Seen in that light I think the possible blindness isn't fitting, since the enemies would watch the show that dooms them. Maybe they should cower instead or some other fear effect or even (morbid) fascination? The radius the dolls have to be within is also probably too large. It is only half the maximum distance they can go from you so meeting the range requirements is way too easy. Within 15-30 ft. from the adept or doll (if channeled) seems like a good range. Perhaps the delay reduction should be for every 6 dolls with a bigger equivalent for the Lunatic G Doll. A 3/5 ratio would require more than half the dolls to be on the show, leaving the adept some leeway to get things done even if some dolls got wrecked since the fight begun (if he didn't use this maneuver on the first round after initiating a stance, getting all his dolls right where he needs them to be. He can then adjust next round since they are confused on their turn.) Lunatic could worth 18 dolls to maintain the 1 round delay. Else it could follow the proportion and be worth 16 dolls, though that would work best with a 5 dolls per delay reduction rate, obviously.
The increase to the DC is unnecessary.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 05:34:03 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 11:04:41 AM »
(click to show/hide)

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 02:42:22 PM »
I like the new Lemming Parade.

Rainbow Puppeteer
Quote
Specialist wizards get a lot more love than non-specialized ones. Sorcerors are outright hated by quite a bit of people.
I'm not talking about specialist wizards but about unorthodox arcane spellcasters like the wujen, the warmage, bard, jester.
And that was the idea. If people outright ban sorcerers, it is maybe because they have too much love already. Not talking about sentimental love, but love in terms of how much material is available to them as opposed to other casters. I thought that was what you meant by love since it was what you meant the last time you used that term for a similar topic.
Quote
No. Niet. Não. Non. Never.
Good.

Special Doll
I'm actually taking that feat even if it sucks right now. But not for the normal reasons.

Puppeteer Theater
Quote
It says they do. It has always said that. Right after the part where they move with you.
Ah, indeed. Read it too fast looking for 'Aoos' after it was used in the maneuver explanation's header. My bad.

Wonderful Dolls
Quote
Too much calculations for my taste. Also blindness isn't that bad of a status effect. Many creatures won't even give a single damn about it.
Dolls x 5ft radius isn't that hard, but again it was just an idea. Many other creatures really do mind about blindness.
It was mostly a point of not making exceptions to raising DCs for anything way higher than they are by default at that level, such as a 3rd level maneuver having the DC of a 9th level maneuver, but whatever.

Doll Activation
Quote
White Raven tactics is still relevant because I use it as a power ceiling. If one of my maneuvers looks like "It's hard to decide whetever I should pick WRT or this", then I know I need to tone it down.
If on the other hand it's strictly worse than WRT, then I'm probably on the right path.
Yes but you don't need to convince me that it is worse than WRT. I'm comparing it to Ending Sign.

Goliath Stuff
All is great. Not sure if the 24h cooldown on Lunatic Doll is too harsh or exactly what it needed, which is probably a good sign.

The Phantom of the Grand Guignol
Alrighty.
When I spoke of doll range for activation I meant from the maneuver's emanation point, be it a channeled doll or the adept himself. Not the actual maneuver's range.


Sounds like a wrap. Thanks for the corrections.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 05:37:24 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 08:17:19 AM »
Updated Special Doll feat to have better sinergy with the maneuvers as per Anomander's suggestions in the Phantasy Star campaign (and also added pic and fluff quote).

Offline Vladeshi

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
  • Feel free to ignore me.
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2017, 08:20:54 PM »
New Equipment: Doll

Dolls are constructs two size category smaller than the creator with 1 HP and no natural armor or hardness and a special filling for a total cost 1 silver. The filling explodes when activated in the right way by a small magic trigger. This trigger is unique to each Doll crafter, so only her may make them explode.

What is the craft DC for dolls?

For the purpose of Doll Judgement, dolls must be hand-crafted whitout any magic aid, be it items, spells, Su abilities, psionics and anything besides the user's own hands, mundane tools and self dedication.

Does this mean that Scarlet Haired Dolls can not be used to aid another you to speed up your crafting?
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2017, 02:36:08 AM »
High-quality item, DC 15.

And no, you can't use dolls to help you make more dolls.

Offline QuadraticGish

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2019, 05:33:15 PM »
Hey Oslecamo, could you give an example on how Rainbow Puppeteer would function with a Sorcerer? It's a little difficult for me to decipher. Do you learn Doll Judgement maneuvers and stances in place of spells? How does using a maneuver affect your spellslots compared to casting a spell? In addition, would it be possible to have Special Doll be a Familier ACF for familiar granting classes that have a Doll Judgement maneuver?

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2019, 04:23:11 AM »
Of course! First you're right there was no clear way for a sorceror to actually learn the spells, so clarified that they need to either study a script or a token doll to make their own token doll of each maneuver/stance.

Then let's say you're a 1st level sorceror with 18 Cha, that gives you 3 1st level daily spell slots plus 1 bonus.

You can then "prepare" a 1st level Doll Judgement or Stance on each of your 1st spell slots. Any leftover ones can be used for normal magic. After you expend said maneuvers, you can recover them all 1 minute of meditation.

Hope that's clear enough.


Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2020, 12:37:33 PM »
Can an Immortal Doll be used to channel you abilities with little or no action on your part since it is "alive"? Or would that jiat be extra actions for it at the cost of your own?
So do both you and the special doll get full round action? Also sounds like it can benefit from two stances with the bit of it being able it to be combined from any none Doll Judgement stance while also beingable to benefit from you stances.
High Explosive Pawn is listed twice in Special Doll rulings. I believe the second one is supposed to be Doll Cremation.
High Explosive Pawn has no daze on successful save. Does this mean the intial target is dazed either way because theres a direct attack on him?
Thousand Spear Dolls, is that one attack per doll, or do the dolls get one attack on each target in reach?

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Doll Judgement-New ToB Discipline for martial and arcane alike!
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2020, 05:29:37 AM »
Can an Immortal Doll be used to channel you abilities with little or no action on your part since it is "alive"? Or would that jiat be extra actions for it at the cost of your own?
You still need to spend your own actions to channel your abilities through a doll, immortal/special or otherwise.

So do both you and the special doll get full round action? Also sounds like it can benefit from two stances with the bit of it being able it to be combined from any none Doll Judgement stance while also beingable to benefit from you stances.
Yes, both get full round actions and yes the special doll could get their own stance plus another one from the PC themselves.

High Explosive Pawn is listed twice in Special Doll rulings. I believe the second one is supposed to be Doll Cremation.
Ups, yes, fixed. :blush

High Explosive Pawn has no daze on successful save. Does this mean the intial target is dazed either way because theres a direct attack on him?
No, the attack roll just decides where the dolls explode.

Thousand Spear Dolls, is that one attack per doll, or do the dolls get one attack on each target in reach?
One attack per doll.