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Creative Corner => Homebrew Archive => Homebrew and House Rules (D&D) => Avatar d20 => Topic started by: dman11235 on March 12, 2012, 09:59:01 AM

Title: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 12, 2012, 09:59:01 AM
Post all your general discussion of the system here.

All updates completed.  I may have missed something.  It's kind of a large project.

I do need a discussion on monsters.  I hadn't planned on making new monsters (instead just re-fluffing existing ones seems like a good instruction), but if there needs to be a specific monster, let me know.  I'd be happy to get some help in this aspect, if anyone wishes to design monsters (*cough*bhu*chough*).
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: Risada on March 13, 2012, 06:35:43 PM
I am reading through your work right now (awesome stuff, BTW) and noticed this:

Quote from: Control Winds
You control the wind speed in a large area.  The DC required to change the wind speed varies based on how much you wish to change the wind speed and how high the speed already is.  Choose a location within range for the origination point

It looks like something is missing from Control Winds's text...

@Monsters: aside from the flying bison and some other random animal... what kind of monsters need to be created?
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: Prime32 on March 13, 2012, 08:12:41 PM
@Monsters: aside from the flying bison and some other random animal... what kind of monsters need to be created?
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Fauna in the World of Avatar (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Fauna in the World of Avatar)
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 13, 2012, 08:56:21 PM
I am reading through your work right now (awesome stuff, BTW) and noticed this:

Quote from: Control Winds
You control the wind speed in a large area.  The DC required to change the wind speed varies based on how much you wish to change the wind speed and how high the speed already is.  Choose a location within range for the origination point

It looks like something is missing from Control Winds's text...

@Monsters: aside from the flying bison and some other random animal... what kind of monsters need to be created?

There should be a table giving the wind speeds.  Apparently I don't have one?

Also, I'm going to change to organization of this a bit soon.  All of the rules threads will be moving somewhat, seed lists moving to posts in the overview for one.

EDIT: First off, moving around of things is done.  Second off, I have no idea what happened to the other half of that seed.  I think it got cut on accident with whatever was after it, but I'll try to rebuild it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 16, 2012, 01:14:01 PM
I added my mundane fire fixes to this.  Even though I want that used in all campaigns, it's more applicable to this project.  I actually wrote those fixes for this project, but posted them early because they are still applicable to normal campaigns.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: Sodalite on March 22, 2012, 09:07:47 PM
Will you be including content from Legend of Korra? Things like those weird, presumably anti-bending, suits some of the Equalists wear?
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 23, 2012, 09:22:13 AM
Eventually, probably.  My setting is an alternate universe from that one, althoguh potentially not.  It takes place 500-1000 years after the original series takes place, after an event that wipeout out much of the technology.  I still need to come up with items and the creatures of the show, although the classes/feats/PrCs were the only thing I needed to finish to post this.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 23, 2012, 09:31:57 AM
Unless I missed it you probably need "wall of" along with something along the lines of Move Earth in the bender...
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 23, 2012, 12:24:08 PM
huh?  Earthbending should have the Wall of Earth and Move Earth seeds in it.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 23, 2012, 12:38:46 PM
You may want to put a link to the seeds in the bender class, its rather odd having a class split over two threads. Other than that, you may have to be careful to avoid the truenamer problem with your bending skill checks.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 23, 2012, 12:52:40 PM
I knew I forgot to do something!

As for the skill checks: it's not a skill.  If you read the bending overview, it's a class bonus+wis+misc. check.  I specifically changed it to this to avoid the Truenamer problem.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 23, 2012, 02:48:20 PM
There are several aspects of that problem, the high bonuses are the one you solved. The other is having a chance to fail to use your class abilities is not good.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 23, 2012, 07:28:12 PM
I did solve that problem too.  There's no scaling DC (a DC 20 blast will be DC 20 always), and you can take 10 in most situations, including combat, so you should be able to do level appropriate effects at all times.  Again, these things should be in the overview.

Actually, this thing is so far off from the Truenamer that it's not even a fair comparison anymore.  It's not skill, it's class level, and it doesn't scale, and you can take 10, and I actually paid attention to expected levels of power.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 24, 2012, 03:06:11 AM
Why bother using a DC at all if you cant fail. And if you can fail it comes back to wasted combat actions.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 24, 2012, 11:33:27 AM
Two reasons, one: if you want/need a more powerful version, and two: you can't take 10 if threatened.  Due to the way augments work, even if you roll you might not have a chance of failing.  If you use an increase augment to up the DC beyond what you automatically hit, then you have a chance of failing, but if you don't, you can just cash in on exceed augments if you roll well, or just have a slightly weaker version if you roll poorly.

Again, read the overview.  All of your concerns have been addressed in there.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 24, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
I have read it, my major point is WHY bother using a DC based scaling system, it doesn't really add all that much to the game.

If you intend to keep to level relevant effects then why give the option of using higher level ones?
If you need to augment to remain relevant then you get the failure issues (as you cant take 10 in combat)
If you don't need to augment to remain relevant then why risk failing.

In any case other than that I had a look over the earthbending stuff, and grabbed anything that looked like it needed thought:
Earthbending-
1. Armor seed is pitiful +9 AC at level 20 and unable to wear medium/heavy armor sucks. Also Duration: Concentration makes it even worse
2. Density needs a line about unattended nonmagical objects as per every other ability that grants a save to objects.
3. Dirt spray is bad compared to similar effects like glitterdust and Blindness/Deafness (and blindness is a bad spell) ]
4. Dust cloud seems like it should be air bending.
5. Earth blast references a chart but has no link
6. the Headcracker description seems like it should be a save or die, not a way of ignoring hardness.
7. Probably add some way of crushing the person you have Imprisoned by making the box smaller.
8. Might want to make the DC on Puppet higher considering its nearly a non mind effecting Dominate Monster.
9. Quake's wording needs some work, expanded see below. Also think about making the DCs scale from the user. 
10. Rubble wave is just bad, compare to earth wave.
11. Possibly grant tectonic an augment for a larger than 5' change.
12. In general there is a lot of bull rushing here, consider clarifying how bending interacts with feats.

Quake:
Quote
The squares affected become difficult terrain, and creatures attempting to pass through must use 4 squares of movement or take 1d4 damage.  Those unconcerned with the damage may move through using 2 squares of movement.
Unconcerned is a strange word to use and is confusing, does that mean unaffected creatures or creatures that feel no pain?
Quote
Subjects may make a balance check to move at half speed or full speed through the affected area.  The DC is 20 for half speed, and 30 for full speed.  A failure of 4 or less means they cannot move further that turn.  A failure of 5 or more means they fall prone.

Anyone damaged by Quake loses speed as if they stepped on a caltrop.  When used on sand or loose dirt, the spikes do not remain on subsequent rounds.

There is a lot of text referencing speed modifiers, why would you bother taking the 1d4 damage if it counted as you stepping on a caltrop and affected your speed anyway? Does the balance check allow you to ignore the 1d4 damage or 1/4 speed penalty (I assume so but it is laid out in a confusing manner)


Anyway, hopefully the criticism is constructive. If you like I can look at the other bending disciplines later tonight.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 24, 2012, 04:53:11 PM
For your first three "ifs":

if you try to go above your "take 10" value, then you're taking a risk, and if you succeed, then your seed is more powerful than what it normally would be.  If you fail, you fail and the attempt to be more powerful was wasted.  You can still take 10 in most situations, including combat (this is NOT A SKILL, it follows different rules, and the only thing that prevents you from taking 10 is being threatened).  The only reason to risk failing is if you, for some reason, need extra power.  Otherwise there are uses for rolling wihtout a risk to fail.  The exceed augments don't increase the DC of the seed.  So, for instance, Boulder Toss.  You start with a DC of 30, and can either take that as is, or increase it by 6 points to affect an additional target.  If you do increase the DC, it is now DC 36, and you'd need a check of +26 to take 10 and succeed.  If I instead had a check of +35, I could roll, and not risk failure, but have a chance at getting an even higher bonus to the bull rush, so if I rolled a 5 I'd get +1, if I took 10 I'd get a +2, and if I rolled a 17 I'd get +4.

I am expecting most people to just take 10 pretty much all the time, but the rolling allows for some chance in the power.  You will almost never even have a chance at failing a bending check, because you can always choose to just not increase the DC, and with most seeds, it'll still be relevant thanks to the exceed augments.

1: I forgot to add the augment that makes the concentration a swift/free action, and the DR is supposed to be the real power.  I may up the AC bonus, but it shouldn't be much of a problem (it's 1/2 Inertial Armor progression, but you add DR and energy resistance to it).  The main power from this one comes from the exceed (well, it should be exceed) augment that grants DR.

2: I'll add it, it should have been there already.

3: It's not an area blinding.  It's a targetted effect that deals damage and has a chance to blind on a failed save, and on a successful save they still take a penalty.  And again, you can increase the DC, damage, or duratino of the blinding using augments.  The save is an exceed augment, so you can forgo most of the damage to force them to make a high DC save against the blinding.  Not only that, but I'm not basing my balance on tier 1 classes or casting in general.  Screw casting.

4: It's also an airbending seed.  The difference: air uses wind to whip up dust, and earth moves the individual particles to whip up the dust.

5: I'll add more words, but it's referencing the Bender class chart.

6: Why?  It's not an SoD.  It's not changing to one.

7: I took that out.  I didn't want it in there, and there's a different way of doing that.  This isn't intended to be a SoD, it's more of a capture thing rather than the spell Imprison.  The PrC Agent of the Dai Li has a more advanced version, where they take you into the ground, rather than this one, where you shoot arms of earth up to grab someone.  This does not pull you into the ground like the spell does.

8:  First off, it lasts only a few rounds.  Also, it ends when you lose sight of the target.  Finally, it can't force the target to take any mental action.  So it's more limiting in many ways, but less limiting in some others.  With that in mind, is it still too powerful?  Oh, and you can't affect just anyone, it has to be a creature with the Earth subtype.

9: The "unconcerned" thing is supposed to be "you can move through using only 2 squares of movement, but you automatically take damage".  There's some extra words that shouldn't be in that seed though.

10: Okay...what's the problem?  One is a line, the other is a cone.  One moves creatures better, the other deals more damage.  I'm going to switch the damage though, it should have been 1d6 for the rubble, and 1d4 for the wave.

11: There is.

12: is there any confusion?  If not it's fine, but if there's confusion, then I will clarify where needed.  So where's the confusion?
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 24, 2012, 06:55:27 PM
Quote
You can still take 10 in most situations, including combat (this is NOT A SKILL, it follows different rules, and the only thing that prevents you from taking 10 is being threatened).

I assume by threatened you mean "While in a threatened square", rather than the rules on taking 10 that define combat itself as a threat. Forgive me for the confusion.

1: I forgot to add the augment that makes the concentration a swift/free action, and the DR is supposed to be the real power.  I may up the AC bonus, but it shouldn't be much of a problem (it's 1/2 Inertial Armor progression, but you add DR and energy resistance to it).  The main power from this one comes from the exceed (well, it should be exceed) augment that grants DR.
I would also drop the limitation on armor, it seems overly penalizing. Why have it concentration based rather than duration based anyway? It would probably work fine as an hour/level buff to be honest.

Quote
3: It's not an area blinding.  It's a targetted effect that deals damage and has a chance to blind on a failed save, and on a successful save they still take a penalty.  And again, you can increase the DC, damage, or duratino of the blinding using augments.  The save is an exceed augment, so you can forgo most of the damage to force them to make a high DC save against the blinding.  Not only that, but I'm not basing my balance on tier 1 classes or casting in general.  Screw casting.
The reason people would use this seed rather than one of the more damaging ones is for the blindness. I understand you are not balancing off casters but try not to nerf your effects too much. Blindness/deafness gets permanent blindness for a 2nd level spell and its not anywhere near a good spell.

Quote
4: It's also an airbending seed.  The difference: air uses wind to whip up dust, and earth moves the individual particles to whip up the dust.
Probably needs a new description along those lines then, currently it references wind whipping up dust.

Quote
6: Why?  It's not an SoD.  It's not changing to one.
I suggest working on the description, not the effect. Manipulating peoples bones should do more than ignore hardness...

Quote
7: I took that out.  I didn't want it in there, and there's a different way of doing that.  This isn't intended to be a SoD, it's more of a capture thing rather than the spell Imprison.  The PrC Agent of the Dai Li has a more advanced version, where they take you into the ground, rather than this one, where you shoot arms of earth up to grab someone.  This does not pull you into the ground like the spell does.

Just seemed like that effect should be there, that's all. I have obviously been watching too much naruto recently... (Gaara does this a lot)
Quote
8:  First off, it lasts only a few rounds.  Also, it ends when you lose sight of the target.  Finally, it can't force the target to take any mental action.  So it's more limiting in many ways, but less limiting in some others.  With that in mind, is it still too powerful?  Oh, and you can't affect just anyone, it has to be a creature with the Earth subtype.
Just consider that Dominate Monster is a 9th level spell, I am not saying it is too powerful but I would look carefully at the DC.

Quote
9: The "unconcerned" thing is supposed to be "you can move through using only 2 squares of movement, but you automatically take damage".  There's some extra words that shouldn't be in that seed though.
Gathered as much, just confusingly laid out.

Quote
10: Okay...what's the problem?  One is a line, the other is a cone.  One moves creatures better, the other deals more damage.  I'm going to switch the damage though, it should have been 1d6 for the rubble, and 1d4 for the wave.

Why are they different seeds, you have a whole augment system for this kind of difference.

Quote
11: There is.
I would split the additional squares augment into target squares and amount changed. As it is it is illegal to target an underground square due to line of sight/effect.

Quote
12: is there any confusion?  If not it's fine, but if there's confusion, then I will clarify where needed.  So where's the confusion?
Can you apply your feats to the bull rush effects? (I wouldn't have thought so but it should be clarified) It could be important if someone wants to build a bull rush type earthbender.




I don't know if its just the general difficulty working out the tone of a post (and if it is I apologise) but you come off as rather confrontational. I had assumed you wanted some critical input but if you don't forgive me and I shall leave you alone.

Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 24, 2012, 07:27:35 PM
1: The seed has you make armor out of earth, so it wouldn't even fit.  Not only that, but armor bonuses don't stack, so wearing armor beneath it would be useless, aside from stacking enhancements.  It's concentration because that's the flavor.  Just about every duration based seed is concentration, because they require constant attention, unlike magic which has the energy concentrate on it for you.  The concentration won't be a probelm for this by level 10 or so.  And earlier, it'll be worth the action.

3: Look in ToB.  There's a maneuver that's basically this same thing.  It's damage, plus an effect that is indeed very powerful at low levels.  At higher levels it's less effective less often, but still effective.  This blinding has a similar duration to Glitterdust, btw.  You have a chance at blinding someone for an encounter, basically.

4: Really?  That's odd.  I actually wrote this one first and copy/pasted to Air, so if anything it sould be the other way around.

10: They are completely different in both effect and flavor.  One is a cone spray of debris, the other is a wave of earth (not a spray, it's like that spell that lets you move around on a wave, only made of, well, earth).

11: That's not an issue.  You can only raise the earth or lower it, and since you can target the same square multiple times, you can raise/lower it multiple levels.  I'll clarify though.

12: no, they do not apply (unless it specifically states that they do).
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 24, 2012, 08:03:36 PM
1: The seed has you make armor out of earth, so it wouldn't even fit.  Not only that, but armor bonuses don't stack, so wearing armor beneath it would be useless, aside from stacking enhancements.  It's concentration because that's the flavor.  Just about every duration based seed is concentration, because they require constant attention, unlike magic which has the energy concentrate on it for you.  The concentration won't be a probelm for this by level 10 or so.  And earlier, it'll be worth the action.

Flavour is all fine and good but the armor is a pain to use (Concentration is horrible for buffs) and gives crappy bonuses. I would make the AC bonus untyped, so it can stack with your armor (you gave earth benders armor for a reason right?) and add a low cost augment (1 or 2 points)  to maintain as a free action. Otherwise it is just not worth using, sustaining it as a swift action is not viable.

Quote
3: Look in ToB.  There's a maneuver that's basically this same thing.  It's damage, plus an effect that is indeed very powerful at low levels.  At higher levels it's less effective less often, but still effective.  This blinding has a similar duration to Glitterdust, btw.  You have a chance at blinding someone for an encounter, basically.
Which manuver? Clinging shadow strike I assume but that does significantly more damage (it adds 1d6 to your normal damage) whereas dirt spray only deals 1d6. Honestly, people will only want to use it for the blind effect not the chance at around 3 points of damage. Sure you could augment it but the scaling is going to be incredibly slow. like 1d6 per 4 levels slow.

Quote
4: Really?  That's odd.  I actually wrote this one first and copy/pasted to Air, so if anything it sould be the other way around.
Quote
Using a gust of wind, you create a large dust cloud that obscures vision.

Quote
10: They are completely different in both effect and flavor.  One is a cone spray of debris, the other is a wave of earth (not a spray, it's like that spell that lets you move around on a wave, only made of, well, earth).
Different in flavour maybe, but effect wise one is an 8 cube thick line (because you never specified the wave cant be one cube thick and 8 long) and the other is a 15' burst that does less damage. I know which I would use, every single time.

Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 24, 2012, 08:31:05 PM
1: I'm probably going to increase the AC bonus, but not by much (+1/3 bending levels).  It is meant to replace your armor though, so it's definitely not going to stack.  As for concentration, I did mean to add an augment to make it a free action maintain, but it's definitely not going to be a +1 or 2 (those are reserved for tiny bonuses, like +1 to a skill or something).  it'll be about a +8.  That makes it so you won't be able to reliably do it until level 6 or so.  And I don't know why it's a move action concentration right now, it should be swift.  I thought I changed that.  I didn't even notice it until right now.  It did used to be more powerful (justifying the move action concentration, restricting you to bending as a combat means, and no movement), but right now it's intended to act as an alternative to armor, and it should end up slightly more powerful, but in a different way, than regular armor.  Would you recommend going back to the powerful, deserving the move action concentration, or acting as an armor replacement?

3: It scales MUCH faster than that.  it scales at 1d6/4 points, which is about 1/2 levels (probably slightly faster), as you gain +1 point per level, +1 point every time your wis bonus increases, and +2 points at 3 and every 4 levels past that.  And then you can increase it further with feats, although that won't be much.  There is also the successful save still having a penalty, although it's not a big penalty.  i really should add -2 to attacks for that (non-stacking, of course).

10: ah, yeah, that's a problem.  The line is supposed to be that: a line.  The cone is supposed to deal more damage, and I did say I was going to switch them.  Good eyes.

4: :facepalm
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 25, 2012, 12:23:39 AM
Updated earthbending.  Still working on that second half of the air seed.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 25, 2012, 04:58:52 AM
3: It scales MUCH faster than that.  it scales at 1d6/4 points, which is about 1/2 levels (probably slightly faster), as you gain +1 point per level, +1 point every time your wis bonus increases, and +2 points at 3 and every 4 levels past that.  And then you can increase it further with feats, although that won't be much.  There is also the successful save still having a penalty, although it's not a big penalty.  i really should add -2 to attacks for that (non-stacking, of course).
Put it this way, to deal the same amount of damage an a completely unoptimised blaster at level 20 (20d6) you need to hit a DC 91 check. I know you are not trying to balance off casters but optimised blasting is awful and unoptimised blasting is even worse.

Plus you have to hit with an attack for it to even work, the ability has 2 failure conditions. Miss attack = no effect at all, they pass save = minor debuffs.

Assuming a level 20 character started with 18 Wis and boosted that at every level they should have a bending modifier of:
+9 from Wis 28 (22+6 from items)
+10 from the Advanced bending bonus
+20 from ranks
Total +39. Take 10 for 49. Compare with the DC 91 check needed to match an unoptimised blaster wizard on damage.

With a 49 you could do... 9d6 damage.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on March 25, 2012, 10:26:51 AM
And.....it should be about 10d6 damage, that was my goal.  Because it is touch attack with damage and blindness.  Do keep in mind that no matter what, the target takes a 10% miss chance for the duration, whether they are affected by the blindness or not.  I should probably change this though.  I'm going to make it 1d6 damage per two bending levels, and then change the damage augment to instead introduce the miss chance.  It'll be +4 DC for +5% miss chance, maximum 60%, and this will last twice as long as the seed's effects do.  This miss chance will, as it already is, be automatic as long as you hit.  I'm lowering the base DC to 10 as well.  This seed should be accessible from level 1 easily.  At level 1 you'll have a +5 usually, so this'll let you either increase the duraction by 1 or cause a 5% miss chance.

Huh, I'm surprised you haven't brought up the Dust Cloud issue yet.  Not the flavor, but the maintainance action is currently standard with no way to reduce it.  There will be an ammendment to that shortly.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on March 25, 2012, 02:20:42 PM
And.....it should be about 10d6 damage, that was my goal.
Why is your goal an average of 35 damage at level 20? I get that it has a rider effect but its a single target touch attack ability, the damage should be a lot higher unless its your intention for people to basically ignore the damage at higher levels.

Other thoughts: you want to clarify weather the "1d6 bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing damage." on Rubble wave is 1d6 damage split evenly or 1d6 bludgeoning, 1d6 slashing and 1d6 piercing. I imagine its the former but it could do with clarification. Same argument as above for the DC increase for damage, at 3 points per d6 that is a DC77 for 20d6 damage and there is a save for half too.

Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on April 24, 2012, 01:53:12 PM
Okay, I added the content that was missing from Control Winds.  However, I'm not sure about the area that it should use.  I'd rather give more control to the, er, controller and have it be a shape able number of cubes, but that's more the purview of Funnel, so I was thinking about having it be a cone instead.  The cone is what it is now, but the augment for size is still the cubes.  I'm currently leaning towards a 60' cone, with an augment of +5'/2 increase.  I'm also considering upping the increase for wind speed change to 5, and adding a stipulation that changing direction costs the number of increases that the wind currently is.  So example: there's a Strong wind blowing east to west, you want to change it to North.  So you need to up the DC by 10 to change the direction, and then any other increase to DC lets you increase the speed as well.  So to make it Windstorm going North, you need a DC of 30.  That might be a tad low though.  And by a "tad" I mean "wow, this annihilates archetypes easily and locks down the Terrasque".  Dang I wish I still had the original version of this.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: Garryl on April 24, 2012, 02:05:12 PM
Have you considered having the effects of the wind be dependent on the Control Winds effect, rather than the predefined wind categories that exist already? Like saying that it has a DC of X and does Y to missile weapons, which get augmented by A and B, such that it doesn't really fit into the existing categories but explicitly counts as one or the other categories for the purpose of other effects that care about that thing?

Ex: (numbers are all made up and have no correlation to your system because I haven't read through it yet)
Normal: Causes a -4 penalty to ranged attacks and checks Medium or smaller creatures (DC 20). This counts as a strong wind for the purpose of other effects.
Augment: For every +3 to the bending DC, the ranged attack roll penalty increases by 1 and the save DC increases by 1. For every 10 point increase in the bending DC, this wind checks creatures of one size category larger and counts as wind conditions one category more severe.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on April 24, 2012, 02:41:17 PM
I have, but if I don't do it this way, then Airbenders have no way to change the wind around them.  The penalty on attacks is taken care of by Babylon Control, actually.  This is actually changing what the winds around an area do.  Hmm....that makes me think I should change it to a cylinder instead.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: Amechra on May 17, 2012, 03:22:50 AM
I just noticed that Water has two templates, Earth has one, and Air has none, while Fire has 3~4. Just mentioning it.

Also, how would you represent a bender studying with another style? I remember that lightning redirection was created by studying waterbending forms; will there be rules on doing something like that?
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on May 17, 2012, 09:32:22 AM
The "rules" are there.  It's just that they don't have specific rules.  It's more represented by your feat selection and play style.  I mean, I do have lightning as an option (and the Dai Li feats, and the PrCs), but this is an evolving project (as Kora is still going on), so there will be more things added eventually.

For templates: this is true, and it's mostly because fire lends itself more easily to templates.  I'm not going to add templates for the sake of templates, but I am looking for new seeds to add, and indeed I want to have more templates on the other three.  Again, Korra will help.  I was thinking of adding a new template to Air that made them do sonic damage with their stuff (replacing the damaging sound seed), but it ended up being a seed instead.  I'm about at 60/40 seed/template on that decision, so it might change eventually.

Also: minor update done, no rules changes made, just clarifications of grammar and such.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on May 21, 2012, 09:51:19 AM
I fixed Dust Cloud and changed Dirt Spray.  See if you like that one better littha.  I upped the damage slightly, and altered the focus of the augments.  Hopefully it's more clear that this is primarily a debuff seed, not a damage seed.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on May 21, 2012, 11:12:41 AM
It is a little clearer but I would have removed the ability to augment damage completely so as not to create a trap unintentionally, a lot of people wont do the math on the damage and just assume its ok. Plus Dust cloud still references using a gust of wind to lift the dust rather than just bending off the ground.

Irritation from dust cloud seems like it shouldn't work on nonliving creatures. Cant see a skeleton or golem being particularly bothered. (The effect is fine, just the description)
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on May 21, 2012, 09:43:53 PM
Try the Air version.  That's the one that's different.  I still need to copy over the new versions for Earth.  And I thought I fixed the fluff of that one?  That was one of the first things I thought I did...

EDIT: Okay, fixed Earth's Dust Cloud fluff, fixed Earth's versions of Dust Cloud and Dirt Spray.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on May 22, 2012, 02:16:32 PM
Both are much better now, both power wise and they don't draw people into trying to do their damage with them.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on December 14, 2012, 11:37:44 AM
Okay, been a long time (holy balls, 120 days +???!!!???), but I'm coming back.  I just modified Dodge and Mobility.  Now, Dodge lets you ignore AoOs from movement from one target.  And Mobility avoids all AoOs from movement.  I'm probably going to tweak or revert them.  But you know, I'm back.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on December 14, 2012, 03:36:01 PM
Those are really going to screw with lockdown builds and they were one of only a few decent melee strategies.
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: dman11235 on December 14, 2012, 10:45:28 PM
Yeah, that's why I realized a better way to handle them literally 5 minutes after I posted them.  The new way, which will be updated later, will be "Dodge grants a bonus to all AoOs, and Mobility makes you immune to movement based AoOs one your dodge targets."  For feat investment, I think it's fine that it invalidates somewhat a lockdown.  You still provoke for getting up, for instance.  And you provoke for ranged combat (unless you have a different feat, PBS), and you provoke for casting and stuff.  I may change it to "first 5' of movement don't provoke", how about that?
Title: Re: Discussion
Post by: littha on December 14, 2012, 11:27:30 PM
Why make the change at all? it just screws with lockdown builds. I know Dodge and Mobility are bad feats but there is no reason to shut down a lot of builds just because of that.

Also you would need some clarification on what happens when it interacts with thicket of blades