Author Topic: Swashbuckler Rewrite  (Read 9977 times)

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Swashbuckler Rewrite
« on: February 16, 2014, 12:36:09 AM »
    Here's my rewrite for the swashbuckler.  It was quite the interesting challenge, ensuring it would be distinctly different from my fighter rewrite.  I ended up deciding that flanking is a good tactical strategy for melee characters, and built abilities to utilize it, while keeping with the agile, lightly armoured style of the original.


Swashbuckler

Hit Die: d10

Alignment: Any


Saves
Lv   Base Attack Bonus   Fort   Ref     Will   Class Abilities
1+1+2+2+0AC Bonus, Weapon Finesse
2+2+3+3+0Bonus Feat, Savvy Strike 1d6
3+3+3+3+1Acrobatic Charge, Masterful Finesse
4+4+4+4+1Lucky 1/day, Improved Flanking
5+5+4+4+1Evasion, Quick Draw, Savvy Strike 2d6
6+6/+1+5+5+2Acrobatic Skill Mastery, Bonus Feat
7+7/+2+5+5+2Savvy Flanker, Uncanny Dodge, Lucky 2/day
8+8/+3+6+6+2Confounding Tactics, Savvy Strike 3d6
9+9/+4+6+6+3Acrobatic Manoeuvrability, Slippery Mind
10+10/+5+7+7+3Rapier Wit, Bonus Feat, Lucky 3/day
11+11/+6/+1+7+7+3Disruptive Timing, Savvy Strike 4d6
12+12/+7/+2+8+8+4Improved Uncanny Dodge, Acrobatic Assault
13+13/+8/+3+8+8+4Devastating Critical, Lucky 4/day
14+14/+9/+4+9+9+4Greater Rapier Wit, Bonus Feat, Savvy Strike 5d6
15+15/+10/+5+9+9+5Chink in the Armour
16+16/+11/+6/+1+10+10+5Improved Evasion, Lucky 5/day
17+17/+12/+7/+2+10+10+5Greater Disruptive Timing, Savvy Strike 6d6
18+18/+13/+8/+3+11+11+6Superior Rapier Wit, Bonus Feat
19+19/+14/+9/+4+11+11+6Free Movement, Lucky 6/day
20+20/+15/+10/+5+12+12+6Ultimate Flanker, Savvy Strike 7d6


Class Skills (6+int mod skill points per level, x4 at 1st level): Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Rope (Dex)

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: A swashbuckler has proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, and light armour.  Many class abilities require wearing armour no heavier than light to function.  Elf swashbucklers are also proficient with the elven lightblade, elven thinblade, and elven courtblade (all three weapons are found in RotW, page 165).

AC Bonus (Ex): Swashbucklers are adept at avoiding blows, using grand, flourishing movements to distract and confound their foes.  A swashbuckler can add her Charisma bonus, if any, to her AC, up to a maximum equal to her swashbuckler level.
    This bonus applies against touch attacks and when the swashbuckler is flat-footed.  She loses the bonus when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears armour heavier than light, or when she carries a load heavier than light.

Weapon Finesse: A swashbuckler is masterful at quick, agile weapons, and gains the Weapon Finesse feat for free at 1st level.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, swashbucklers gain a bonus feat.  It can be any feat from the following list, but the swashbuckler must still meet all requirements before being able to take it.
    Acrobatic Strike, Close-Quarters Fighting, Combat Acrobat, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Backstab, Craven, Deft Opportunist, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Bounding Assault, Rapid Blitz, Force of Personality, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Intimidating Strike, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Improved Precise Shot, Staggering Strike, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Two-Weapon Defense, Greater Two-Weapon Defense, Dual Strike, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (only for weapons that can be used with Weapon Finesse).

Savvy Strike (Ex): A swashbuckler is always ready for the slightest opening.  As long as the swashbuckler is wielding a weapon that benefits from Weapon Finesse and in which she is proficient, is wearing either light or no armour, and is not carrying a load heavier than light, she gains bonus dice to damage against flanked foes, 1d6 at 2nd level, and an additional 1d6 every three levels thereafter.
   The bonus damage is of the same type as that which the weapon deals.  If the swashbuckler is wielding a weapon that deals non-lethal damage, the bonus damage from Savvy Strike is also non-lethal.  If the weapon deals multiple types of damage, such as a flaming rapier, she may divide the damage between each type as she sees fit.  She cannot gain the bonus damage when not wielding her weapon optimally, such as dealing non-lethal damage with a lethal weapon at a -4 penalty.
    Against foes with Improved Uncanny Dodge, swashbuckler levels count as rogue levels for the purposes of being able to flank effectively.
    Against creatures immune to critical hits, the swashbuckler still benefits from extra damage from Savvy Strike, but the extra damage is halved.  If the target has cover or concealment, she cannot use Savvy Strike.
    With regards to requirements and abilities which use Sneak Attack, Savvy Strike counts as Sneak Attack.

Acrobatic Charge (Ex): A 3rd level swashbuckler learns how to utilize her agility when charging a foe.  She can charge across difficult terrain, slip through allies' spaces, and even swing on ropes or the like when charging, though she may still need to succeed on appropriate checks to complete the action, such as balance, jump, or tumble.  She must still abide by all other rules for charges, however.

Masterful Finesse (Ex): Also at 3rd level, the swashbuckler's agile strikes become more deadly.  She can use both her Dexterity and her Strength for determining damage with any weapon which she is proficient and can use Weapon Finesse with, as well as with one-handed thrown weapons.  Add both modifiers together before adjusting for 2-handed weapons or off-hand weapons.  For instance, a swashbuckler with a 14 in both abilities wielding a rapier would deal 1d6+4 damage, while an elf swashbuckler using an elven courtblade would do 1d10+6 damage.

Lucky (Ex): Swashbucklers believe in the old adage, "better lucky than good", though they think they are both.  After reaching 4th level, swashbucklers gain a reroll, usable once per day, reflecting that luck.  This reroll can be used on any attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw the swashbuckler makes.  The reroll must be declared before the results of the original roll are determined.  The new result must be used, even if worse than the original roll.  The swashbuckler gains an additional daily use every three levels thereafter (7, 10, 13, 16, and 19).

Improved Flanking (Ex): Also at 4th level, the swashbuckler improves her ability to flank and keep her foes off balance.  She improves her bonus from flanking foes by another +2, and grants an extra +2 bonus to her flanking partner(s) as well.  Also, against foes with Improved Uncanny Dodge, the swashbuckler's effective rogue level is treated as 4 higher to determine if she is capable of flanking.

Evasion (Ex): A 5th level swashbuckler gains the ability to avoid large blasts and other unusual attacks with panache.  If she makes a successful Reflex save against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as Fireball), she instead takes no damage.  Evasion can only be used if the swashbuckler is wearing light or no armour, and is not helpless.

Quick Draw: The swashbuckler also gains Quick Draw as a bonus feat at level 5.  If she already has this feat, she may instead pick a different feat, but must meet its prerequisites.

Acrobatic Skill Mastery (Ex): Upon reaching 6th level, the swashbuckler masters her acrobatic skills.  With Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble, she may always take 10, even when under duress or while distracted.

Savvy Flanker (Ex): Starting at 7th level, the swashbuckler gains the ability to flank from other angles than normal.  She may either flank with one-handed thrown weapons, so long as she is within the 1st range increment (treat as if she has a reach weapon to determine whether flanking or not); or with a melee weapon, she may choose an adjacent square to her position to count as where she is for the purposes for flanking, in addition to her actual location, regardless of whether the chosen square is occupied by a creature or other obstacle.
   She may now deal Savvy Strike damage with thrown weapons as well, so long as they are light, and she is able to count as flanking from Savvy Flanker.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Also at 7th level, a swashbuckler can react to danger before her conscious mind registers it.  She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.  However, she still loses the bonus if immobilized.
    If a swashbuckler already has Uncanny Dodge from another source, such as levels in another class, she automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead (see below).

Confounding Tactics (Ex): Starting at 8th, the swashbuckler gains the ability to use her charms and flourishes to further enhance her combat ability.  She can now add her Charisma bonus to all opposed rolls for trip, disarm, grapple, bull rush, sunder, and feinting in combat.  This means that her Charisma bonus will essentially apply twice to feinting in combat.

Acrobatic Manoeuvrability (Ex): A 9th level swashbuckler gains even greater skill at acrobatic manoeuvres.  She gain a +10' bonus to her base speed, doubles her jump distances, and can now run along walls for up to half her movement distance for the turn.  She may run in any direction on a wall, but must end her movement on a surface she could normally stand on or fall automatically as soon as she stops moving.  She may use the wall run even during a charge.

Slippery Mind (Ex): A swashbuckler that reaches 9th level also gains the ability to shrug off mental influence.  If she is affected by a mind-affecting spell or effect and fails her save against it, she can attempt the save again 1 round later at the same DC.  She only gets one extra chance to succeed on the save.

Rapier Wit (Ex): A swashbuckler of at least 10th level can begin to alter others' minds with her charm and wit.  All of the various uses granted by this ability are sonic, mind-affecting, and language dependant, have a range of 30', and have a Will save DC of 10 + ½ her swashbuckler level + her Charisma modifier.  They also require a standard action to use, affect only a single target, and last a number of rounds equal to the swashbuckler's Charisma score, unless stated otherwise.  If the target succeeds at the Will save, it cannot be affected by that particular use of Rapier Wit again for 24 hours, though a different use may be used.  Rapier Wit can be used a number of times per day equal to her Charisma bonus (minimum 1), regardless of which option is taken, including the greater versions.
   At level 10, the options are: Enrage, Fear, and Heroism.
   Enrage: Through stinging taunts and crude gestures, the swashbuckler seeks to enrage her foe.  If he fails his save, he gains a -4 penalty to all attack rolls and a -5 penalty to concentration checks, but also gains a +2 to weapon damage rolls.
   Fear: By preying upon her foe's weaknesses, she seeks to undermine his resolve.  The swashbuckler may affect all foes in a 20' radius out from her.  Upon a failed save, an affected foe is shaken.
   Heroism: The swashbuckler may also make a particularly rousing and encouraging comment aimed at one of her allies.  The ally affected gains the effects of the Heroism spell for the duration.  The swashbuckler may not target herself with this.

Disruptive Timing (Ex): Once per round, a swashbuckler of 11th level or higher may draw and throw a single one-handed thrown weapon as an immediate action in response to an enemy beginning to cast a spell or use a spell-like or supernatural ability.  If the spell or ability uses a free, swift, or immediate action, Disruptive Timing cannot be used against it.  If the attack hits, deal damage normally, and apply Savvy Strike if it applies as well.  The spell or ability is disrupted unless the struck creature makes a concentration check against DC 15 + damage dealt + spell level.  In order to use this ability, the enemy creature must be within 3 range increments of the weapon to be thrown.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Swashbucklers gain Improved Uncanny Dodge at 12th level, meaning they can no longer be flanked.  This defence denies rogues from being able to flank the swashbuckler, unless the rogue has at least four levels more than the swashbuckler.
    Levels from multiple classes that can grant Improved Uncanny Dodge stack for determining the level a rogue needs to flank the swashbuckler.

Acrobatic Assault (Ex): Also upon reaching 12th level, the swashbuckler's combat grace blossoms further.  If the swashbuckler makes a DC 30 tumble check as a move action, +2 for each creature whose threatened area she moves through, then she may move up to her speed without provoking attacks of opportunity, and may make a full attack at the end of the movement as a standard action.  The DC increases by 10 if she wishes to pass through an opponent's occupied space during the move.  It also increases by 10 if the swashbuckler wishes to move at double speed when using this ability.  Terrain may add further modifiers to the tumble check, as well.
   If the swashbuckler wishes to charge instead, she will still gain a full attack at the end, so long as she succeeds on the tumble check, but must include the 'double speed' increase to the DC, regardless of whether she needs to move that far or not.  She must also abide by the rules for charging, though may still benefit from Acrobatic Charge.

Devastating Critical (Ex): The luck and skill of a swashbuckler in combat is truly an amazing thing to behold.  At 13th level, she gains Devastating Critical, which affects any weapon she is proficient with and either can be used with Weapon Finesse or is a one-handed thrown weapon, increasing the critical threat range by 1, after other effects which may affect the threat range, and stacks with things like Keen or Improved Critical.  It also increases the critical multiplier of these weapons by 1.  For instance, a Keen rapier normally has a critical of 15-20/x2, which with Devastating Critical becomes 14-20/x3.

Greater Rapier Wit (Ex): Upon reaching 14th level, the swashbuckler gains Greater Rapier Wit, which adds the following options to her list for Rapier Wit: Charm, Confusion, and Greater Fear.  In addition, the level 10 options now may be used as a move action, and the radius for Fear increases to 30'.
   Charm: Through the use of guile and raw charisma, the swashbuckler can manipulate a person's heart.  It takes 10 full minutes of conversation with a creature, but if successful, she enraptures it, making it believe she is its closest companion.  The creature is treated as if it is under the effects of a Charm Monster spell on a failed save, which lasts for 1 hour or until the swashbuckler leaves its presence for at least 1 full minute.  After the effect wears off or on a successful save, the creature does not automatically realize how it was manipulated unless it succeeds at a Sense Motive check opposed by the swashbuckler's Bluff check.  Also, how it was treated and used during this time affects its outlook afterward, at the DM's discretion.
   Confusion: By layering a multitude of illogical, confusing, and conflicting distractions upon a foe, the swashbuckler may leave it temporarily loopy.  On a failed save, the target is affected as if under the effects of a Confusion spell.
   Fear, Greater: Through superior observations, the swashbuckler may deliver an even more effective assault upon her foes' morale.  All foes in a 20' radius centred on her are affected, and any who fail their save are frightened.

Chink in the Armour (Ex): A swashbuckler of at least 15th level has learned to study her foes more closely.  Against a flanked target, she can spend a swift action to study their defenses, and for the rest of the turn, her melee attacks with finessable weapons are treated as melee touch attacks against the flanked foe.  If she is using a one-handed thrown weapon to flank with, she can make ranged touch attacks with them against the flanked target.  A creature that is immune to flanking cannot be affected by this ability.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 16th level, swashbucklers gain Improved Evasion, which functions like Evasion, except that on a failed Reflex save against a spell or effect that allows a save for half damage, the swashbuckler takes half damage.  If she cannot use Evasion, she cannot use Improved Evasion.

Greater Disruptive Timing (Ex): At 17th level, the swashbuckler can use Disruptive Timing as a free action instead of an immediate action, in response to any attempted use of a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability by an enemy in range, regardless of the action required to use the spell or ability.  It may only be used once per provocation, however.

Superior Rapier Wit (Ex): At level 18, the swashbuckler masters her Rapier Wit, and these final additional options: Superior Fear, Greater Heroism, and Sympathy/Antipathy.  The level 10 options are now usable as a swift action, with Fear's radius increasing to 50', and the level 14 options of Confusion and Greater Fear are now move actions, while Charm now requires only 1 minute to activate.  Greater Fear also has its radius increased to 30'.
   Fear, Superior: With utmost skill at crippling an opponent's surety, the swashbucker seeks to drive her foes into fleeing.  All foes within a 20' radius of her must make their Will save, or become panicked.
   Heroism, Greater: Through carefully cultivated words, the swashbuckler can rally an ally to untold heights.  The targeted ally gains the benefits of Greater Heroism for the duration.
   Sympathy/Antipathy: With careful manipulation, the swashbuckler may be able to alter a person's perceptions toward a specific subject to an extreme.  If the target fails its save, it suffers the effects of either Sympathy or Antipathy, as chosen by the swashbuckler, toward the chosen object or location as if it were the specific kind of creature defined in the spell.

Free Movement (Ex): At level 19, a swashbuckler becomes capable of slipping free of any sort of bindings, grapples, and even confining magic easily.  This ability duplicates the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell, except that it is always active and is not magical in nature.  The swashbuckler loses the benefits of this ability if she wears armour heavier than light or carries a load heavier than light.

Ultimate Flanker (Ex): A swashbuckler that has reached level 20 has attained true mastery in distracting combat.  She gains a permanent +2 bonus to both her Dexterity and her Charisma.  Also, she is now able to successfully flank any creature, and is able to use all of her flanking-based abilities against them as if the creature was not immune to flanking.  Her flanking parnter(s) also gain flanking bonuses against such creatures.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 08:26:52 PM by Kethrian »
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 02:59:34 AM »
Warning: Stream-of-consciousness. I'm not going to hit backspace unless I make a typo.

First Impression: GEEZ this would be an amazing dip. Free Weapon Finesse, Dex-to-Damage, and CHA-to-AC?

Masterful Finesse: Do you multiply your DEX by 1.5 for those rare Finesse, 2H weapons?

Savvy Strike... why not use Sneak Attack? Seems like it would grant you all the same things.

Acrobatic Charge / Lucky / Improved Flanking: I like.

Improved Flanking: If you get a +x to your flanking from something else, (I believe the Kenku get +1?), does it stack? Or do you only get the +4 (because it's better than +3)? If you stack them, does the person you're flanking with get the +4, or the improved one?

Evasion - Improved Evasion: I like. Confounding tactics especially; makes me really think of charismatic swashbucklers fighting with their wits / needling people with insults in order to get an edge.

Devastating Critical: Can I ask why? I didn't see anything about criticals before in the class, so it kinda comes out of the blue. Don't get me wrong, I like it - I'm just wondering if... wait, that's dumb, most WF weapons have a high crit, like rapiers and scimitars.

Chink in the Armor: Yes. Good. I love it. Who needs armor? You're a swashbuckler, it's all about speed. That armor just gets in other people's way.

Free Movement: Expounding upon the "all about speed", armor slows you down, hence: freedom of movement. Powerful, makes sense as a 19th-level feature, and still effective at that level. I like it.

Ultimate Flanker: With Savvy Strike, Adaptable Flanker, and Improved Flanking, the capstone's pretty good. +4 to hit and +7d6 damage, just for having a friend that also threatens that target? Sounds great. Does your friend also get the flanking bonuses, though? You're able to flank them... does that include granting a bonus to them? Also, is the last line about using your abilities as if they weren't immune to flanking necessary, given that you are able to flank them?

All-in-all, a wonderful class; really relies on the DEX/CHA focus that makes me think "Swashbuckler", while being able to use STR (extra damage), INT (skills), and CON (hp/fort) effectively.

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 04:03:10 AM »
Warning: Stream-of-consciousness. I'm not going to hit backspace unless I make a typo.

First Impression: GEEZ this would be an amazing dip. Free Weapon Finesse, Dex-to-Damage, and CHA-to-AC?

Masterful Finesse: Do you multiply your DEX by 1.5 for those rare Finesse, 2H weapons?

Yeah, I know it feels a bit front-loaded, but those abilities, I feel, should be available to the swashbuckler right from the start.  Maybe I should delay adding Dex to damage until level 3?

Yes, you multiply your Dex by 1.5 for 2-handers, and by 0.5 for off-hand weapons.  Just like with your Str.

Savvy Strike... why not use Sneak Attack? Seems like it would grant you all the same things.

Yes, they are similar, but I only wanted Savvy Strike to work for flanking, and wanted it to still give bonus damage against crit-immune creatures (it does 1/2 damage to them).

Acrobatic Charge / Lucky / Improved Flanking: I like.

Improved Flanking: If you get a +x to your flanking from something else, (I believe the Kenku get +1?), does it stack? Or do you only get the +4 (because it's better than +3)? If you stack them, does the person you're flanking with get the +4, or the improved one?

You're right, I should just change it to a stackable +2 to flanking bonuses for both the swashbuckler and her flanking partner(s).

Evasion - Improved Evasion: I like. Confounding tactics especially; makes me really think of charismatic swashbucklers fighting with their wits / needling people with insults in order to get an edge.

Devastating Critical: Can I ask why? I didn't see anything about criticals before in the class, so it kinda comes out of the blue. Don't get me wrong, I like it - I'm just wondering if... wait, that's dumb, most WF weapons have a high crit, like rapiers and scimitars.

Well, the original version has Wounding Critical and Weakening Critical, which add 2 points of Con or Str damage to their crits.  So I figured some kind of a crit bonus should be in the remake, as well.  I should probably just reinstate the original two instead, probably at 13 and 16.  Does that sound better?

Chink in the Armor: Yes. Good. I love it. Who needs armor? You're a swashbuckler, it's all about speed. That armor just gets in other people's way.

Free Movement: Expounding upon the "all about speed", armor slows you down, hence: freedom of movement. Powerful, makes sense as a 19th-level feature, and still effective at that level. I like it.

Ultimate Flanker: With Savvy Strike, Adaptable Flanker, and Improved Flanking, the capstone's pretty good. +4 to hit and +7d6 damage, just for having a friend that also threatens that target? Sounds great. Does your friend also get the flanking bonuses, though? You're able to flank them... does that include granting a bonus to them? Also, is the last line about using your abilities as if they weren't immune to flanking necessary, given that you are able to flank them?

Yes, I should fix Ultimate Flanker.  I didn't originally plan for the partner to get flanking as well against things immune to it, only let the swashbuckler get the bonuses if she's otherwise set up for it.  As for the last part, I just reiterated it for the sake of clarity.  But, I would like to hear what you have to say about changes to this ability.

All-in-all, a wonderful class; really relies on the DEX/CHA focus that makes me think "Swashbuckler", while being able to use STR (extra damage), INT (skills), and CON (hp/fort) effectively.

Thanks!  I was really going for that Dex/Cha focus, because it screams "swashbuckler" to me, too!
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 10:06:40 AM »
I would say delaying Dex-to-damage for a level or two would make it great - they can survive the first level with Weapon Finesse and CHA-to-AC, then pick up more damage as monster HP scales up.

Ahh, I understand Savvy Strike better now. .__."

(To be clear, the "wait, that's dumb" was to myself, about why it was there, because WF weapons are often high-crit)
Hm. I think I'd be happier with it how it is; it just surprised me for a second. I like it, on review.

About Ultimate Flanker, the only thing I have to say is that it feels a bit off if you don't run into flank-immune stuff. At my table, I don't think we've ever really seen anything unflankable in... months, at the very least. Otherwise, I like it how it is; granting flanking to your allies would just be a bonus.


Offline Leviathan

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 10:21:54 AM »
Since Dex-to-damage is pretty important to the class (thematically and mechanically), I would recommend giving a "lite" version at level 1 or 2 and a "full strength" version later on. I like giving the better of Strength or Dexterity to damage (the damage equivalent of Weapon Finesse) at level 1, and waiting until level 3 or so to add both ability modifiers.

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 12:17:19 PM »
Nuts, you beat me to the punch of putting up a swash rewrite.  For the smeg of it, might I post the notes I had going before?

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 10:14:47 PM »
I would say delaying Dex-to-damage for a level or two would make it great - they can survive the first level with Weapon Finesse and CHA-to-AC, then pick up more damage as monster HP scales up.

Ahh, I understand Savvy Strike better now. .__."

(To be clear, the "wait, that's dumb" was to myself, about why it was there, because WF weapons are often high-crit)
Hm. I think I'd be happier with it how it is; it just surprised me for a second. I like it, on review.

About Ultimate Flanker, the only thing I have to say is that it feels a bit off if you don't run into flank-immune stuff. At my table, I don't think we've ever really seen anything unflankable in... months, at the very least. Otherwise, I like it how it is; granting flanking to your allies would just be a bonus.

I think I will change it so Ultimate Flanker allows the swashbuckler's partners to flank as well.  Makes the class work even better with a team that way.

Since Dex-to-damage is pretty important to the class (thematically and mechanically), I would recommend giving a "lite" version at level 1 or 2 and a "full strength" version later on. I like giving the better of Strength or Dexterity to damage (the damage equivalent of Weapon Finesse) at level 1, and waiting until level 3 or so to add both ability modifiers.

Thinking of sticking with just Weapon Finesse at 1st, and +Dex to damage for 3rd, to keep it simple and easy.

Nuts, you beat me to the punch of putting up a swash rewrite.  For the smeg of it, might I post the notes I had going before?

If you wanna post your own homebrew swashbuckler in its own thread in the homebrew section, go right ahead!  Never hurts to have more options for people to pick from!

Edit: updated.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 10:31:13 PM by Kethrian »
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16075
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 09:12:41 PM »
Can Lucky be used on different rolls in a single round if you have multiple uses?  For example could it be used for an Attack roll and a Save?  Is using it an action such as an Immediate or Swift Action?

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 09:39:41 PM »
Can Lucky be used on different rolls in a single round if you have multiple uses?  For example could it be used for an Attack roll and a Save?  Is using it an action such as an Immediate or Swift Action?

Lucky does not take an action to use, so yes, you can use it on multiple rolls in the same round.
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 04:32:41 PM »
While working on some other class rewrites, I realized that there was one major flaw in my swashbuckler's design, something I had taken care of for the fighter rewrite, and which the ninja did not need, due to its reliance on manoeuvres.  And that flaw was the inability to make more than a single attack per round unless you weren't moving more than a 5' step.  So, I moved Improved Evasion to 16 and added Acrobatic Assault in at 12.
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Djtooth

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2014, 09:07:19 PM »
So looking at this I noticed there is an opportunity for great synergy on Acrobatic Charge and Acrobatic Assault. Although currently despite their similarities they cannot be used with each other. Would be cool to be that guy who assists his allies in combat by tumbling over the enemy to get behind them during a charge for a full attack with flanking bonuses.

Offline RobbyPants

  • Female rat ninja
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8182
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 10:45:17 AM »
I like a lot of the class. I do have two critiques:

1: I'd recommend capping the +Cha to AC bonus granted at level 1 at your class level or your Cha bonus, whichever is lower. Being able to wear light armor already gets you +3/4 AC at level 1, and you don't really need another +3/4 on top. +1 is nice, and it will scale with the first few levels, and will keep it from being such a good dip for other classes. I've seen several published classes that grant +Int to AC do the same thing.

2: As written, this really strikes me as a 10-level class. It doesn't have any abilities that scream "high level" to me. Sure, it gets really good at turning people's kidneys into kabobs, which is good, but it lacks a lot of stuff that high level characters and monsters do. So, it really leaves two options: turn it into a 10-level base class, or add in higher level abilities that will change the way the class feels.


If you go the high-level route, it's up to you if you want to give it actual supernatural (Su) abilities, or if you want to let them go awesome things as (Ex) abilities. Either can work. It's just a matter of the flavor you want.
My creations

Please direct moderation-related PMs to Forum Staff.

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 12:39:31 PM »
I like a lot of the class. I do have two critiques:

1: I'd recommend capping the +Cha to AC bonus granted at level 1 at your class level or your Cha bonus, whichever is lower. Being able to wear light armor already gets you +3/4 AC at level 1, and you don't really need another +3/4 on top. +1 is nice, and it will scale with the first few levels, and will keep it from being such a good dip for other classes. I've seen several published classes that grant +Int to AC do the same thing.

That's a good suggestion!

2: As written, this really strikes me as a 10-level class. It doesn't have any abilities that scream "high level" to me. Sure, it gets really good at turning people's kidneys into kabobs, which is good, but it lacks a lot of stuff that high level characters and monsters do. So, it really leaves two options: turn it into a 10-level base class, or add in higher level abilities that will change the way the class feels.


If you go the high-level route, it's up to you if you want to give it actual supernatural (Su) abilities, or if you want to let them go awesome things as (Ex) abilities. Either can work. It's just a matter of the flavor you want.

What sort of things would you suggest I add?  I'd like to stick to (Ex) abilities for the class.
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline RobbyPants

  • Female rat ninja
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8182
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 02:36:50 PM »
What sort of things would you suggest I add?  I'd like to stick to (Ex) abilities for the class.

If you're going Ex, you're going to have more limitations before you start straining the willing suspension of disbelief. Bear in mind that high level casters can:
  • Fly
  • Teleport
  • Plane Shift
  • Attack an enemy's weakest defense
  • Gather info by asking outsider from their own living room
  • Set up defenses against a wide variety of attacks (Freedom of Movement, Mind Blank, True Seeing, Death Ward)
  • Affect targets a thousand feet away.

At a minimum, you'll want increased mobility, good defenses, multiple attack forms, and a way to do something other than just melee.

  • You won't really be able to pull off flight as an Ex ability. The best you can get is balancing on the air, ludicrous jumps, and wall-running.
  • For wider attacks, consider things that will make enemies have to make different types of saves. Fort save vs being nauseated when hit, Ref save to avoid an area-of-effect thousand-cuts that hits every adjacent target, Will saves that prevent being dazed, etc. Being able to target saves is a lot of what makes casters so successful in their actions. Also, you will need to be able to mitigate an increasingly wide array of damage reduction.
  • For Ex defenses, having Slippery Mind is a good start. Freedom of Movement could totally work as an Ex ability on a swashbuckler. Also, being able to reroll saves via Lucky will help with survivability.
  • You'll have to think how you want to handle things that aren't melee. Obviously, firing a bow is mundane, but it doesn't scream "swashbuckler". Consider giving them some abilities that mimic spells such as Charm Person, Suggestion, and Rage, being fluffed as the effects of the swashbuckler's banter during a combat.
My creations

Please direct moderation-related PMs to Forum Staff.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 02:47:42 PM »
On the ranged front, Swashbuckler types are usually seen as being ridiculously good with throwing weapons, especially daggers and the like. So that's one avenue to go down when trying to frustrate casters, especially since swashbucklers usually seem to have throwing as an immediate action. Would probably end up something like this:

Disruptive Timing (Ex): Once per round, a swashbuckler may draw and throw a single dagger (or other weapon) as an immediate action in response to an enemy beginning to cast a spell or use a spell-like or supernatural ability. If the attack hits, roll damage normally. The spell or ability is disrupted unless the struck creature makes a concentration check vs 15 + damage dealt. At Xth level, the swashbuckler can use this ability in response to every attempted use of a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability by an enemy during the round. In order for him to use this ability, the enemy creature must be within range of his thrown weapon.

The concentration check isn't the biggest drawback, so something else might be appropriate (Dazing?), but that's the general idea.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:15:52 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2014, 02:58:46 PM »
On the ranged front, Swashbuckler types are usually seen as being ridiculously good with throwing weapons, especially daggers and the like. So that's one avenue to go down when trying to frustrate casters, especially since swashbucklers usually seem to have throwing as an immediate action. Would probably end up something like this:

Disruptive Timing (Ex): Once per round, a swashbuckler may draw and throw a dagger (or other weapon) as an immediate action in response to an enemy beginning to cast a spell or use a spell-like or supernatural ability. If the attack hits, the spell or ability is disrupted unless the struck creature makes a concentration check vs 15 + damage dealt. At Xth level, the swashbuckler can use this ability an unlimited number of times a round.

The concentration check isn't the biggest drawback, so something else might be appropriate (Dazing?), but that's the general idea.

The concentration check would be more of a drawback if Savvy Strike damage got dealt if the target is within the first range increment or something like that.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 03:07:30 PM »
Problem is Savvy Strike keys off of flanking & Weapon Finesse, both of which are impossible at range. So there'd need to be additional class features or text in the ability to sort that out. Certainly doable though.

Could also borrow some abilities from the halfling warsniper for throwing weapons too.

Offline RobbyPants

  • Female rat ninja
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8182
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 03:10:50 PM »
On the ranged front, Swashbuckler types are usually seen as being ridiculously good with throwing weapons, especially daggers and the like. So that's one avenue to go down when trying to frustrate casters, especially since swashbucklers usually seem to have throwing as an immediate action. Would probably end up something like this:

Disruptive Timing (Ex): Once per round, a swashbuckler may draw and throw a dagger (or other weapon) as an immediate action in response to an enemy beginning to cast a spell or use a spell-like or supernatural ability. If the attack hits, the spell or ability is disrupted unless the struck creature makes a concentration check vs 15 + damage dealt. At Xth level, the swashbuckler can use this ability an unlimited number of times a round.

The concentration check isn't the biggest drawback, so something else might be appropriate (Dazing?), but that's the general idea.

You might want to reconsider the "unlimited number of times a round" verbiage. Otherwise, you just do it infinity times until the guy fails his check (or is dead, if the attack actually deals damage. It isn't clear that it actually damages the target).
My creations

Please direct moderation-related PMs to Forum Staff.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 03:16:26 PM »
Cleaned it up. Should make it less prone to breakage. And also put a range on it, which was missing.

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Swashbuckler Rewrite
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2014, 03:21:20 PM »
Here are all the notes I had for my own swashbuckler rewrite:

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:26:34 PM by Jackinthegreen »