Min/Max Boards

Meta Board => Board Business => Topic started by: Prime32 on April 14, 2012, 06:01:55 PM

Title: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Prime32 on April 14, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
We've been looking at replacing the current Reputation score with a new system, which allows you to give a thumbs-up to individual posts (rather than users). You get only one vote per post, though you can change/remove it at any time. Hopefully when you get +1'd in this system you should have a better idea of why.

However...

I've turned on the new system for Board Business - you should see an upwards arrow above this post and others here (excepting your own posts), along with that post's score if it has one.


EDIT: This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 14, 2012, 06:04:31 PM
Upvoted the OP to show off the system.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on April 14, 2012, 06:22:28 PM
I got the email.

I don't see where to upvote -- there's a "+1" near the upper right of the OP, but when I mouseover the cursor changes to a big question mark and it isn't clickable.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Prime32 on April 14, 2012, 06:24:07 PM
Does it appear now?

EDIT: To be safe
This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on April 14, 2012, 06:26:26 PM
I clicked it and the arrow became green.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Kajhera on April 14, 2012, 06:30:30 PM
Interesting.

I didn't get the e-mail for this, the only announcement I've gotten from the boards was regarding the Forum Staff account.

Edit: Whatever way you decide the system works I'd prefer one where I could go through and +1 every homebrew monster oslecamo's made that I've used in the space of a few minutes. Recognition as it is currently, with the wait, and not showing what post it's for doesn't lend itself to such swift acknowledgments. (Other homebrew I use in bulk too.)
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: DonQuixote on April 14, 2012, 06:38:13 PM
I do feel like some sort of cumulative "respect" counter can be useful, since it gives new people a better idea of who they're listening to.  Yes, it encourages some man-part-measurement, but it's helpful to be able to gauge whether the person just posts a lot, or whether they actually get feedback for their posts.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 14, 2012, 06:47:49 PM
On a related note, do you think you'd be more likely to upvote specific posts on impulse on a per-post basis than you are with the current system? Would this be different between upvotes with total scores and without?
(This is more my own curiosity than trying to decide between one or the other.)
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Kajhera on April 14, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
I don't think my impulsivity would change one way or the other, but I'd be more likely to vote up things that haven't been recently posted, but often referenced, since there would be a much clearer indication of what the recognition's for.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: McPoyo on April 14, 2012, 07:09:20 PM
I got the email announcement just fine.

Is there a way it could be tracked what section of the boards the cumulative vote score is for a given person? Say, someone is really active on Homebrew, you'd see that their massive score was mostly from homebrew and not, say Ask a Question, and would help gauge where that person has their strengths/spends most of their time?

Impulsivity for myself is unlikely to change, primarily because I just plain forget it's there sometimes. I like the present system well enough (though I don't have a preference between the two), but would like if you could input a reason why you gave credit to a person so they could know what they got positive rep for.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 14, 2012, 07:22:46 PM
I still think Karma is a horrible horrible system.

Like I was sitting at 27ish then I argued about SA and went up five points. Verbally beating the crap out of idiots is fun and new people think I'm awesome, sounds like that's what I should do if I want to be a cool kid. Flame war ftw!

Real respect is earned without a karma system. I can say I'd take Sin's advice on MtG or I shouldn't read anything made by TSS and certainly no number below their avatar is going to help that out. If you must have a system, forget per post and do not allow it to ever be awarded for arguing. In fact, the only shiny thing in my profile I've been awarded that I like is my Handbook Writer title and I've long thought we should have a handbook rating system as not all guides are created equal.

Maybe only accounting for quality guides is one method, I mean if you feel so strongly Skirmish is over overpowered and free then you'd be willing to write a thesis on why and then I can rate it the lowest score possible. Now a newer person knows not to take that person's advice as some of word of god.

P.S. On the subject of email. I check my secondary emails like once a never so I have no idea it worked or even which email I used here to know which one to check. Even my primary is only checked once a week when dealing with personal business, email and voice mail is like a giant sink hole around me.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Kajhera on April 14, 2012, 07:33:27 PM
Tracking it by section as proposed would help with that sort of deal, for cumulative, to see if people are valuing your input in debates / shoring up their side of the argument in true hunter-gatherer band democracy style, writing valued handbooks, constructing useful homebrew or helpfully answering peoples' questions.

Whether this is something we should be tracking about a person is another question, but we already have statistics by board so it would be pretty cool. Little complicated though.

And, obviously, if it's just by post it's pretty obvious what the post is about.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Prime32 on April 14, 2012, 07:34:46 PM
Is there a way it could be tracked what section of the boards the cumulative vote score is for a given person? Say, someone is really active on Homebrew, you'd see that their massive score was mostly from homebrew and not, say Ask a Question, and would help gauge where that person has their strengths/spends most of their time?
Afraid not. The closest that's possible is enabling it on some boards only.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: altpersona on April 14, 2012, 07:38:24 PM
i know the karma system has had its troubles in the past...

up/down voting a thread post, and a running total shown in the posters area seems reasonable.

it would take a lot of effort to track down every post someone made to neg them to death..

i would take the existing kudos down and just use the thread up/downs to replace it.

i'd also show both ups and downs instead of a sum of the two.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: TSS on April 14, 2012, 07:46:38 PM
i know the karma system has had its troubles in the past...

up/down voting a thread post, and a running total shown in the posters area seems reasonable.

it would take a lot of effort to track down every post someone made to neg them to death..

i would take the existing kudos down and just use the thread up/downs to replace it.

i'd also show both ups and downs instead of a sum of the two.

I could name a half dozen different posters that would follow certain users around and -1 every single post they make. I will not name those posters, but all of the problems with a karma system (certain posters +1ing people constantly because they argue with people they don't like, certain posters going from 0 to 20 or more in days simply because they made dozens of posts in a row all attacking an unpopular poster) would be magnified if there were also a -1 system.

The intention of the system is to +1 good posts but very few people use it for that. Despite what some would claim that's what I use it for. Most people either use it to encourage attacks or to promote a circle jerk.

Overall I don't particularly care about the system one way or another.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Slaughterhouserock on April 14, 2012, 07:54:14 PM
  • Should a cumulative "Respect" score be displayed under your username, based on the reputation of your posts?
  • Is a karma system even worth having, or should we scrap it altogether? Any suggestions for alternative systems?
  • This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?

1.  No, see 2.
2.  No.  In every message board I've seen with a karma/respect/etc. system, it either got abused or ignored and meant pure fuckall in both cases.  People will always side with those they agree with, leading to inflation of numbers for those people, even if said people are wrong ninety percent of the time.  New people(generally younger people IME) then see these high numbers and assume those are the people they should listen to, leading to misinformation being spread like the plague.  People will also give kudos/karma/etc. for the wrong reasons, e.g. arguing against someone a poster doesn't like, as SorO pointed out.  These systems always look good on paper, but never work in practice.
3.  I got it and it was unobtrusive.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Kajhera on April 14, 2012, 08:13:44 PM
... If you're looking for proposals on alternative systems: Private kudos system. PMs are too small for me to go around telling everyone 'hey this post is helpful', and saying 'I liked this' is rarely a helpful contribution to a thread, so... +1 system visible to those who posted.

Reasons make me happy too, even if it seems to be getting into should be doing something else territory, I'd be much happier giving +1 with a reason than PMing someone or posting (owing to obtrusiveness).
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: InnaBinder on April 14, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
  • Should a cumulative "Respect" score be displayed under your username, based on the reputation of your posts?
  • Is a karma system even worth having, or should we scrap it altogether? Any suggestions for alternative systems?
  • This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?

1.  No, see 2.
2.  No.  In every message board I've seen with a karma/respect/etc. system, it either got abused or ignored and meant pure fuckall in both cases.  People will always side with those they agree with, leading to inflation of numbers for those people, even if said people are wrong ninety percent of the time.  New people(generally younger people IME) then see these high numbers and assume those are the people they should listen to, leading to misinformation being spread like the plague.  People will also give kudos/karma/etc. for the wrong reasons, e.g. arguing against someone a poster doesn't like, as SorO pointed out.  These systems always look good on paper, but never work in practice.
3.  I got it and it was unobtrusive.
Slaughterhouserock hit all my salient points, though I got emailed twice in a row about the announcement (to the same account; I don't use any sock-puppets here).
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Kajhera on April 14, 2012, 08:39:19 PM
Slaughterhouserock hit all my salient points, though I got emailed twice in a row about the announcement (to the same account; I don't use any sock-puppets here).

So you're the filth what stole my rightful letter.  :shakefist
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Prime32 on April 14, 2012, 09:05:22 PM
I got emailed twice in a row about the announcement (to the same account; I don't use any sock-puppets here).
I think that's because you're in multiple membergroups. That should be avoidable in future.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: wotmaniac on April 14, 2012, 09:12:32 PM
What about something like they have over on Enworld?  Where people can comment on the post itself, and those comments are parsed at the bottom of the post their commenting on.

did that even make sense?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Nanshork on April 14, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
I didn't get the e-mail.

If we are going to have any kind of karma system I say A) No negative anything and B) I like getting feedback on specific posts instead of vague numbers.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: McPoyo on April 15, 2012, 12:04:13 AM
I hate Enworld's way of doing that so much I specifically avoid their forums.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Monotremeancer on April 15, 2012, 07:32:20 AM
This
I hate Enworld's way of doing that so much I specifically avoid their forums.

And this
If we are going to have any kind of karma system I say A) No negative anything and B) I like getting feedback on specific posts instead of vague numbers.

I got the e-mail
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: InnaBinder on April 15, 2012, 08:58:18 AM
Does it appear now?

EDIT: To be safe
This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?
To update: I still don't see any method of upvoting any posts in this or any other thread.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 15, 2012, 09:09:56 AM
Does it appear now?

EDIT: To be safe
This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?
To update: I still don't see any method of upvoting any posts in this or any other thread.
That's weird. There should be an arrow on the top right of posts, right next to the quote button, that turns green when you mouse over it. If you still don't see it, what browser and OS do you use?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: InnaBinder on April 15, 2012, 09:13:28 AM
Does it appear now?

EDIT: To be safe
This is the first time we've used the Announcement feature for a topic. Did everyone get an email? Is it too obtrusive?
To update: I still don't see any method of upvoting any posts in this or any other thread.
That's weird. There should be an arrow on the top right of posts, right next to the quote button, that turns green when you mouse over it. If you still don't see it, what browser and OS do you use?
It's not showing for me.  Firefox, Windows Vista.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: veekie on April 15, 2012, 09:15:24 AM
Mind taking a screenshot?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: InnaBinder on April 15, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
Mind taking a screenshot?
Not generally savvy enough to post those coherently.  The only things I see up in the corner are "quote" and "modify," not the green up-arrow bit that briefly showed in Agita's screenshot before he ninja'd it out in an edit.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on April 15, 2012, 09:26:36 AM
Have you looked at someone elses post rather than yours? Because I don't think you can upvote your own posts, so maybe that's why you don't see the arrow.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 15, 2012, 09:26:55 AM
Ninja'ed by IK.

Mind taking a screenshot?
Not generally savvy enough to post those coherently.  The only things I see up in the corner are "quote" and "modify," not the green up-arrow bit that briefly showed in Agita's screenshot before he ninja'd it out in an edit.
That would be your own post, assuming you don't somehow have the rights to edit other's posts. What about on other people's posts?

EDIT: Hmm. The Forum Staff account can't see the arrows either, but in that case it's just due to not having enough posts to be allowed to upvote, I'm pretty sure. Is anyone else having this problem?

EDIT2: What usergroups are you in, Inna? I'm not sure off the top of my head how to check for myself. Any others than Handbook Writer? Maybe something went wrong with usergroup permissions.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: InnaBinder on April 15, 2012, 09:32:10 AM
Ninja'ed by IK.

Mind taking a screenshot?
Not generally savvy enough to post those coherently.  The only things I see up in the corner are "quote" and "modify," not the green up-arrow bit that briefly showed in Agita's screenshot before he ninja'd it out in an edit.
That would be your own post, assuming you don't somehow have the rights to edit other's posts. What about on other people's posts?

EDIT: Hmm. The Forum Staff account can't see the arrows either, but in that case it's just due to not having enough posts to be allowed to upvote, I'm pretty sure. Is anyone else having this problem?
I apologize for including the fact that I can see "Modify" on my own posts, as it apparently gave the impression that they're the only ones I was looking at.  To clarify: On my own posts, I can see the "Quote" and "Modify" buttons in the upper right (as I face the screen) corner; on all posts that are not my own, I only see the "Quote" button in that area.

Edit: Off the top of my head, I'm a handbook writer and whatever usergroup you've lumped the general population into based upon post count.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Prime32 on April 15, 2012, 10:21:38 AM
Edit: Off the top of my head, I'm a handbook writer and whatever usergroup you've lumped the general population into based upon post count.
Urgh...
Handbook Writer replaces your normal permissions with a different set, rather than adding to them. It's already caused a few oddities, though nothing that couldn't be fixed.

I've added the permissions to Handbook Writer now. Forum Staff can't vote, for the sake of fairness.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on April 15, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
Edit: Off the top of my head, I'm a handbook writer and whatever usergroup you've lumped the general population into based upon post count.
Urgh...
Handbook Writer replaces your normal permissions with a different set, rather than adding to them. It's already caused a few oddities, though nothing that couldn't be fixed.

I've added the permissions to Handbook Writer now. Forum Staff can't vote, for the sake of fairness.

I only got 1 email, even though I'm a member of like 29435894 different groups.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: InnaBinder on April 15, 2012, 10:58:36 AM
Upvote visibility is now enabled, thanks to whatever forum voodoo Prime32 and the rest of you did.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Ziegander on April 15, 2012, 04:18:59 PM
I'm with some other posters in saying that if we're going to have a Karma system, that I would rather have it be based on specific posts rather than just something ambiguous under our Avvy. I like what's proposed here better than what we have.

EDIT: Would we have a way, through our UserCP or some other means, to view all of our posts that have been +1'd? Or something to that effect?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Unbeliever on April 16, 2012, 09:07:29 PM
I find the karma system useless.  It's too coarse and too easily gamed.  I never pay attention to it. 

Ziegander's suggestions are good ones.  I think the "+1" type of posts that were the norm work just fine.  Though perhaps some way to search them more easily would be nice.  It's unclear to me what the benefits of the up voting are, except for maybe keeping the post count down(?). 
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Prime32 on April 20, 2012, 05:41:19 PM
The post-based system has now been rolled out throughout the boards, and the old karma system has been disabled. Right now cumulative scores are displayed, though that can be turned off.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Nanshork on April 20, 2012, 07:29:46 PM
How do you find out what posts got plusses?  Or are the current scores just whatever points we got from the old system?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 20, 2012, 07:35:33 PM
How do you find out what posts got plusses?  Or are the current scores just whatever points we got from the old system?
Points have been reset with the system change. For finding out what posts got upvoted, for now the only possibility is looking for them (for starters, this one (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4588.msg64177#msg64177) by you got three). We're investigating means of searching for upvoted posts.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on April 20, 2012, 09:01:24 PM
Can Moderators see who gave Respect to a post?
I would like to suggest that, instead of summing up all the respects attained, the score should show the highest Respect that any of our posts have.
For example: I have 3 upvoted posts. First has 2 respects, second has 3 and third has 1. Instead of 6, the score should be 3.
What does it do? It shows which people are helpful or contribute enough to get multiple upvotes on one post. It shows that they write quality posts. Who is more worth respect, the guy who wrote a post that got him 10 upvotes or the guy who got 10 upvotes but each for a different post?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Nanshork on April 20, 2012, 09:18:09 PM
How do you find out what posts got plusses?  Or are the current scores just whatever points we got from the old system?
Points have been reset with the system change. For finding out what posts got upvoted, for now the only possibility is looking for them (for starters, this one (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4588.msg64177#msg64177) by you got three). We're investigating means of searching for upvoted posts.

I would LOVE a way to search for upvoted posts!
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: McPoyo on April 20, 2012, 09:45:41 PM
Can Moderators see who gave Respect to a post?
I would like to suggest that, instead of summing up all the respects attained, the score should show the highest Respect that any of our posts have.
For example: I have 3 upvoted posts. First has 2 respects, second has 3 and third has 1. Instead of 6, the score should be 3.
What does it do? It shows which people are helpful or contribute enough to get multiple upvotes on one post. It shows that they write quality posts. Who is more worth respect, the guy who wrote a post that got him 10 upvotes or the guy who got 10 upvotes but each for a different post?
it may mean that guy number one just posts on the most trafficked portions of the boards.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on April 20, 2012, 09:59:22 PM
All I'm saying is that IMO the score should indicate quality rather than quantity of good posts.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: StreamOfTheSky on April 20, 2012, 10:38:22 PM
I don't see why a karma system is needed at all...
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 20, 2012, 10:42:23 PM
I don't see why a karma system is needed at all...
Same.

Also, shot ahead of the pack yet again. And while I may have rolled in the "leet" points. Class Boosters (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=477.0), the single best thread here, has one "like". Proof the system is borked, I mean that post is cooler than me :p
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Maat Mons on April 20, 2012, 11:04:33 PM
And while I may have rolled in the "leet" points. Class Boosters (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=477.0), the single best thread here, has one "like".

I gave you 15 for Bunko's Bargain Basement and 2 for Class Boosters.  I just went through the reference threads I use a lot and marked the posts that contained the content.  (I missed the second post in Class Boosters initially.) Maybe the lesson here is to make sure to split handbooks across as many posts as possible. 
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Garryl on April 20, 2012, 11:35:20 PM
I take it you're the fine fellow who gave me 17 points for Free D&D?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on April 21, 2012, 12:23:16 AM
If the system is going to get abused then it's better if there's no system at all.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 21, 2012, 12:25:41 AM
I gave you 15 for Bunko's Bargain Basement and 2 for Class Boosters.  I just went through the reference threads I use a lot and marked the posts that contained the content.  (I missed the second post in Class Boosters initially.) Maybe the lesson here is to make sure to split handbooks across as many posts as possible.
Thanks, also I know who my creepy stalker is!

If the system is going to get abused then it's better if there's no system at all.
idk, I like him.

Eer yes. Bad system. Karma sux.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on April 21, 2012, 12:42:00 AM
I like the karma system, but there's no point if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Slaughterhouserock on April 21, 2012, 07:46:47 AM
I like the karma system, but there's no point if it doesn't work.

They never work as intended, which is why I find them pointless.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: oslecamo on April 21, 2012, 08:58:37 AM
I find a certain irony on the same people who complain about D&D alignment and claim it's a very subjective thing then proceed to build-in a one-dimensional alignment karma system on this very forums.

I know facebook and google love to do it, but do we really need to jump in the "like" bandwagon? Why don't just let people express their opinion of a post the good, old fashioned way-by typing replies?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 21, 2012, 06:01:01 PM
I know facebook and google love to do it, but do we really need to jump in the "like" bandwagon? Why don't just let people express their opinion of a post the good, old fashioned way-by typing replies?
+1

The good ole fashionde way, via reply and agreeance.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on April 21, 2012, 09:37:23 PM
I find a certain irony on the same people who complain about D&D alignment and claim it's a very subjective thing then proceed to build-in a one-dimensional alignment karma system on this very forums.

I know facebook and google love to do it, but do we really need to jump in the "like" bandwagon? Why don't just let people express their opinion of a post the good, old fashioned way-by typing replies?
Sheep of evil corporations. Baaaaaaah

I don't think I've used the respect system and I won't use this one. I only clicked the karma one once but that's gone down the memory shoot.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: TheGeometer on April 22, 2012, 12:06:08 AM
The thing that isn't fair about a traditional karma system is that any noob (myself not excluded) can click and raise a person's prestige. If somebody should be respected, they need to earn that respect from people that are respected themselves.

Therefore, I propose an "infectious" karma system. The moderators start out with 5 points, and everyone else starts with 0. Points can be given only by those with more than 5 points. Thus, only those respected on the forum can recognize others as truly worthy of such respect. Is there a way to code for a system like that?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Sinfire Titan on April 22, 2012, 12:26:51 AM
I find a certain irony on the same people who complain about D&D alignment and claim it's a very subjective thing then proceed to build-in a one-dimensional alignment karma system on this very forums.

I know facebook and google love to do it, but do we really need to jump in the "like" bandwagon? Why don't just let people express their opinion of a post the good, old fashioned way-by typing replies?

Because it allows the lurkers to show that they give a damn.

The thing that isn't fair about a traditional karma system is that any noob (myself not excluded) can click and raise a person's prestige. If somebody should be respected, they need to earn that respect from people that are respected themselves.

Therefore, I propose an "infectious" karma system. The moderators start out with 5 points, and everyone else starts with 0. Points can be given only by those with more than 5 points. Thus, only those respected on the forum can recognize others as truly worthy of such respect. Is there a way to code for a system like that?

This is a fairly bad idea in my opinion. We're human, and while we are trying to be responsible moderators, we make mistakes. And a system like that would mean next to nothing. I, for one, have only ever used the previous rep system twice; a system such as that one would also cause elitism far beyond the current or previous ones.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: TheGeometer on April 22, 2012, 12:42:19 AM
Therefore, I propose an "infectious" karma system. The moderators start out with 5 points, and everyone else starts with 0. Points can be given only by those with more than 5 points. Thus, only those respected on the forum can recognize others as truly worthy of such respect.

This is a fairly bad idea in my opinion. We're human, and while we are trying to be responsible moderators, we make mistakes. And a system like that would mean next to nothing. I, for one, have only ever used the previous rep system twice; a system such as that one would also cause elitism far beyond the current or previous ones.

I disagree that the system would mean next to nothing. We're giving people a number to represent how much respect they've gotten. If we're going to have a karma system, it should translate to actual respect, by respected individuals. And if you don't think that you are giving credit where it is due, or if you're not one to use the karma system for other reasons, then don't; there's no pressure to do so.

It would unquestionably cause elitism, but the regular karma system only avoids that effect by having no meaning. If it actually represented what it was supposed to - how much respect a member deserves - then it would create that same effect. The only reason that problem would arise is because my system works. I would much prefer the dismantling of the entire karma system, but if it must exist, let it do its job.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Halinn on April 22, 2012, 12:48:46 AM
I prefer a more old-fashioned respect system myself. Simply read a user's post, then decide from the content if it's worth anything. I know that it's more modern to have other people judge things for you, but I'm weird like that.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Bozwevial on April 22, 2012, 01:12:40 AM
I prefer a more old-fashioned respect system myself. Simply read a user's post, then decide from the content if it's worth anything. I know that it's more modern to have other people judge things for you, but I'm weird like that.
Honestly, I don't think it makes much of a difference. We threw out the old karma system and that worked fine. Then we migrated over here and installed the original one, and I might have used it once or twice for something particularly insightful.

Ahaha no, let's be serious here. I used it when people made especially clever puns.

I've been a member for quite a while now, so most of the opinions I've formed of people have been formed based on discussions I've read rather than on initial impressions from the old karma system. That makes me supremely unqualified to judge the old system--or indeed any of them--since by the time the system produced any measurable results, I'd already come to a conclusion independently.

I will concede that this is an improvement over the old system in that users can now get a more accurate sense of what sort of behavior is praiseworthy. I'm just kind of apathetic toward the whole thing, I guess.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on April 22, 2012, 01:47:45 PM
Yeah, we need to find some way of searching for upvoted posts (maybe there's a way to show "recently upvoted posts" on the whole board or something?), because I recently acquired 3 respect and I have no idea where it came from... and it's really not time-effective to look through every post I've made.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Tshern on April 23, 2012, 08:15:51 PM
I like the karma system, but there's no point if it doesn't work.

They never work as intended, which is why I find them pointless.
It is equally pointless to display the post count of all users.

I doubt anyone here is rooting for the continuing existence of the karma system, because they feel its vital or excessively useful to the posters. While I see no particular reason to have such a system, I don't understand why some people stand so adamantly against it. So far I haven't seen it cause any problems on this board.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: linklord231 on April 23, 2012, 10:08:31 PM
I don't know, I kind of like having the post count shown.  It gives you a general idea of how active people are on the forums. 
I also like how we can now give respect for individual posts, rather than per poster.  On the other hand, I don't think keeping a running tally of how many upvotes your posts get is a good thing.  It subconsciously reinforces the "appeal to authority" fallacy - 'Oh, since this guy has +1198 respect, he's probably right about everything.'  Don't get me wrong, it's fine to track the total number of upvotes a poster has, but don't display it under his/her avatar. 
And I second (or third, or whatever) the request for a "popular posts" feature that lists both the most heavily upvoted posts of all time, and the most recently upvoted posts. 
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: McPoyo on April 23, 2012, 10:19:41 PM
I like seeing the post count, personally. Helps me track activity.

That said, I also like seeing karma scores. Makes me feel happy inside when I see that someone liked something I said enough to recognize me for it.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Maat Mons on April 24, 2012, 02:59:10 AM
I notice we can't up-vote posts in the trash (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=11.0).  Do posts that get moved to the trash lose existing up-votes?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 24, 2012, 03:18:39 AM
I notice we can't up-vote posts in the trash (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=11.0).  Do posts that get moved to the trash lose existing up-votes?
I'm not sure, but testing it shouldn't be hard. Post a test post and I'll upvote and trash it.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Maat Mons on April 24, 2012, 03:37:40 AM
Test Post
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 24, 2012, 03:44:10 AM
The upvote doesn't show up in the trash, but it appears to still count towards your total. Now we know.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Garryl on April 24, 2012, 07:34:38 AM
Can you test undeleting the upvoted and deleted test post and see if it's still upvoted?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Agita on April 24, 2012, 08:18:44 AM
Can you test undeleting the upvoted and deleted test post and see if it's still upvoted?
Done (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4588.msg66926#msg66926). Still upvoted.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Garryl on April 24, 2012, 02:41:15 PM
Have you tried not just trashing but completely deleting a post? I know that reduces post count (I don't think post count is reduced while the post is still in the Trash subforum).
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: The_Laughing_Man on April 24, 2012, 06:10:57 PM
I think the easiest way for me to see, what I'm doing right, would be to have those +1s in the posts in the Profile->Summary->Show Posts.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: DonQuixote on April 26, 2012, 10:40:19 PM
Yeah, some sort of upvote-seeing mechanic would be nice.  Apparently, I forgot to turn off my MinMax when I went to sleep last night, because I woke up covered in Respects.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: McPoyo on April 27, 2012, 07:26:25 AM
Hah, when you put it that way, it sounds like falling asleep watching television and waking up covered in doritos or something.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SneeR on May 03, 2012, 01:08:03 AM
Yeah, we need to find some way of searching for upvoted posts (maybe there's a way to show "recently upvoted posts" on the whole board or something?), because I recently acquired 3 respect and I have no idea where it came from... and it's really not time-effective to look through every post I've made.
This to a million. I am disinclined to search through 1087 posts to find out which one people liked.

EDIT: But what's terrible is that I am going to look back at every single one because I am so curious which got upvoted!!!! IT BETTER NOT BE SOMETHING INSIGNIFICANT!

EDIT AGAIN: Sigh.. It was something I posted that calmed a flame war. Boring. At least I didn't have to sort through more than 100 posts to found out. Imagine if someone liked my Intro thread! I'd be at it for hours until I found that (going back in chrono order, of course)
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SneeR on May 03, 2012, 01:52:59 PM
At least I didn't have to sort through more than 100 posts to found out. Imagine if someone liked my Intro thread! I'd be at it for hours until I found that (going back in chrono order, of course)
In retrospect, that made me wide open for trolling...  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: TSS on May 03, 2012, 01:56:17 PM
At least I didn't have to sort through more than 100 posts to found out. Imagine if someone liked my Intro thread! I'd be at it for hours until I found that (going back in chrono order, of course)
In retrospect, that made me wide open for trolling...  :rolleyes

:lol

It's funny because I wasn't the only one that went for it.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: McPoyo on May 03, 2012, 02:02:22 PM
At least I didn't have to sort through more than 100 posts to found out. Imagine if someone liked my Intro thread! I'd be at it for hours until I found that (going back in chrono order, of course)
In retrospect, that made me wide open for trolling...  :rolleyes

:lol

It's funny because I wasn't the only one that went for it.
I wasn't the first person there to do it, either.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: EjoThims on June 23, 2012, 04:34:03 PM
I did not get the announcement either.

Also, if this system is telling the person receiving the vote what post it's for, that is a plus.

But it already feels a bit spammy.

And yes, abuse abuse blah blah... Any tool can be wielded for poor purposes, but the idea of this type of system is the exact same as that of having a listed post count. Except this one is slightly harder to just spam up.

And both, I feel, still serve enough purpose to be worth some effort, especially if not actively being abused.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on June 30, 2012, 09:07:11 PM
How come the karma is only visible (& awardable) on certain boards?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 30, 2012, 09:31:39 PM
So far I've noticed it can't be given in the Play By Post area, but that's it.  Which is fine I'd say since it's all just recruiting and playing and such.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on June 30, 2012, 09:37:01 PM
Well, it can't be given on my Stratovarius board in Homebrew...
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 30, 2012, 09:43:34 PM
I'd say that one is a problem then, yes.  More karma, respect, or whatever it wants to be called!
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on June 30, 2012, 09:47:08 PM
I'd say that one is a problem then, yes.  More karma, respect, or whatever it wants to be called!

Lol.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Quillwraith on July 10, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
I find myself to give respect a bit more lightly with this system.
That may be a good thing (I don't upvote for just anything; but more often than before), or it might not.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: RedWarlock on July 10, 2012, 11:21:43 PM
I like the system, the only part I dislike is that I have to quote Rodney Dangerfield: "I get no respect!"

I at least had a few props from before, but now I feel like an unloved buffoon.  :P
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Libertad on July 11, 2012, 01:10:04 AM
I still can't find where I got that +3 Respect!  I know that 2 were from a post in the Munchkinmaxer Fallacy, but that elusive 3rd post...  Arrrgh!
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Halinn on July 11, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
I'm glad I don't feel a need to compulsively search my posts to find which were upvoted.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SneeR on July 11, 2012, 09:32:24 AM
SO MUCH RESPECT

CANNOT FIND IT ALL

FREAKING OUT, MAN
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: littha on July 11, 2012, 09:45:14 AM
SO MUCH RESPECT

CANNOT FIND IT ALL

FREAKING OUT, MAN

I wish I had that issue  :lol
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Nanshork on July 11, 2012, 09:57:26 AM
I gave up on finding mine awhile ago.   :(
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: ImperatorK on July 11, 2012, 10:26:01 AM
Mine are easy to find. 3 out of 4 are for the same post.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: SneeR on July 11, 2012, 10:28:02 AM
Is it just me, or is the Respect score not showing up in certain parts of the boards?

EDIT: Notably PbP
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 11, 2012, 10:31:10 AM
Is it just me, or is the Respect score not showing up in certain parts of the boards?

EDIT: Notably PbP

How come the karma is only visible (& awardable) on certain boards?

Haven't gotten an answer yet, but for PbP I think it's mostly because that's not really the area for insightful posts and such.  I could be totally off of course, but it seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: sirpercival on July 11, 2012, 10:43:23 AM
Is it just me, or is the Respect score not showing up in certain parts of the boards?

EDIT: Notably PbP

How come the karma is only visible (& awardable) on certain boards?

Haven't gotten an answer yet, but for PbP I think it's mostly because that's not really the area for insightful posts and such.  I could be totally off of course, but it seems reasonable.

It would still be nice to be able to upvote really awesome writing...
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: Quillwraith on July 11, 2012, 10:48:56 AM
I like the system, the only part I dislike is that I have to quote Rodney Dangerfield: "I get no respect!"

I at least had a few props from before, but now I feel like an unloved buffoon.  :P
I have now stopped forgetting to upvote your houserules/rewrites.
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: linklord231 on July 16, 2012, 02:19:31 AM
How the fuck do I know which of my posts got Karma or Respect or whatever the fuck it's called now? 
I can see how much respect other people's posts have got in the top right corner, is it the same thing for posts that I made?
Title: Re: Looking for user input: New karma system
Post by: veekie on July 16, 2012, 02:45:56 AM
Yep, the only difference is you don't have an up-arrow for your own posts.