Wraith plague

[Dragon lord]

If the bbeg managed to cram 100 wraiths into a large fragile ghost touch wooden box and lobbed it over the walls of Sharn during a siege just after dusk. Would the inhabitants be able contain them and if so how many would need to be lobbed over to create a runaway plague?

[phaedrusxy]

This is pretty much impossible to answer, as it is very DM dependent.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

2nd

**

Now, lets assume we're just working with
200 000 Commoner 1s versus the 100 Wraiths.
The rest of the populace are higher level npcs.
And nobody raises an alarm for Hela's sake.

Each Wraith can maim/kill 1 Commoner in ~5 rounds.
And then each almost dead Commoner becomes
a Wraith on average 5 rounds later;  for some 
somewhat easier maths this way.
10 rounds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour.
1 wraith kills 120 Commoners, all but 1 of which
have risen (so far) as wraiths themselves.

OK fancy math guys = go!

[Dragon lord]

Well looking at your math we could simplify it further by saying that each wraith can kill and raise 1 commoner/minute (assuming they take 30 seconds to find their next victim) which means that their number doubles every minute.  Binary counting says that if they can keep that up, in 16 minute there would be 6,553,600 wraiths.  Realistically it would take them longer than that to traverse the city so we know that's false maths as it's missing loads of variables. However it would only take 5 minutes for there to be over 1000 wraiths to deal with.  Assuming no one responded that was capable of dealing with all of them.

My question is really, based on what people know about Sharn and ebberron does the city have the capability to deal with that many wraiths in a concentrated area before the wraiths multiply out of control and how would they do it.

[PsyBomb]

Wraiths are smart enough to avoid enemies which can easily engage them. Assuming you had some way to compel the first 100 (the spawn would be listening to the originals) to keep them from hunting you down, the master wraiths will use the spawn as waves of pawns to wear down tougher defenders. 99% of cases, anything smaller than a small city will not have anything able to deal with even the first 100.

In essence, unless you have a contingent of Necromancers/Clerics/Force Mages several thousand strong or else a Ghost Touch legion, any mortal that needs to sleep will eventually die to the wraiths. Perhaps not without killing several thousand, but simple lack of sleep will eventually kill you. Assuming one Wraith gets killed every round by each of 15 capable defenders who do not run out of resources (thus discounting Arcane Spellcasters other than necromancers fighting fire with fire), a Metropolis of one million victims (discounting combatants who could take at least one enemy out before dying and those who could escape) would take 4.6 days of constant combat to clear out. around day 1.2, I'd assume any wraiths left would leave the area to go to the next town.

This is a terrifyingly effective tactic, if you can guarantee the loyalty of the first 100. Mind if I steal it? My players need a good challenge, and they're pushing level 15.

[Dragon lord]

Feel free, and my bbeg is a lich at at the period of history he did this he was at the head of an undead army setting up the empire that the players are going to be playing in.

So feel free to borrow it.

[phaedrusxy]

This game had a modified zombie plague (contagious, more like D&D ghouls, really) which worked kind of like this. It was pretty fun being a PC in it.

[Dragon lord]

Cool, glad to see I wasn't the first to think of it?

[ksbsnowowl]

Back in early 3.5 (before most people realized that the incorporeal subtype had been altered), people commonly proposed casting the avalanche and heavy snowfall type spells from Frostburn, so as to bury a town, then unleash a few wraiths, who could travel through the snow into the homes and murder people.

That would work with 3.0 incorporealness, but in 3.5 it was changed to require that the creature stay next to the exterior of the object that it entered.

[Dragon lord]

Cool, good to keep in mind

[altpersona]

a 5ft layer of snow would be very effective i think.

[ksbsnowowl]

a 5ft layer of snow would be very effective i think.

True.  Even ten feet would still work, so long as the homes are standard, above-ground affairs.  People might still be able to get out and walk around with the appropriate equipment, if their homes have dormer windows, or something like that.  But drop it on a region where people don't already have snow shoes, and they'd pretty well be stuck in their homes.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

The other 12 000 npcs could be statted.
A large portion would be Warrior 1s, and they'd be dead.

A smaller portion would be Adept 1s, Aristo 1s
and Expert 1s.  Those might survive a little while
if they were tossed a useful item, maybe lasting +1 round.
Similar the 1st level PC classes from a normal town/city.

The lowest level Max npc from the largest city and with
the lowest dice roll would be:
1 level 13 npc from each of the PC classes
1 level 16 Commoner
1 level 13 Expert
... etc , including the 1/2 of the level same class underlings.

That's about ~30 PC classes above the level of the Wraiths.
Not including Leadership or Summons.

I bet they could win or will win.  Especially if they use
all the other 211 000 npcs as cannon fodder.  You know,
because they're all LG but We Must Survive To Save The World.
 

[SorO_Lost]

Per ADM, the 30 seconds it took to kill the first 100? Hmm...

Say you started with 10,000 Commoners. However the alarm was raised and rather than fighting the remaining 90,900 flee. So at 36 seconds 100 Wraiths start chasing new targets. They have +4 to track but are unable to overcome anything over DC 10. As an irony in the rule, by cross Aid-ding each other in 5ft intervals even a mob of people leave so little of a trail the Wraiths are unable to fully pursue. But let's donate another 900 souls for mishaps and stragglers.

9,000 Commoners regroup away from town to battle the remaining 1,000 Wraiths. They turn to Pelor, the most well known Good-Aligned Deity of Light & Healing for guidance and help. For successfully fleeing the Encounter they were awarded XP and 10% of them spend Retrain into Clerics giving us 900 Clerics which is far more than enough to handle the job. They choose the Glory & Sun Domains, half the group take Improved Turning and the other half takes Combine Turning as their 1st level Feats, and pool their wealth to obtain as Flametouched Iron as they can for holy symbols. Any Humans in the group additionally take Exalted Turning as a back up. In groups of two they split up and run around gathering several Wraiths into a group around them then they unleash the Sun Domain's power to destroy them. The last two uses of Turn Undead are used for tactical retreats, and through Exalted Turning several are damage with no means to heal them selves. The victorious Clerics bank their XPs hoping to level up. And CR 5 vs two CR1s, I'm sure it only takes an Encounter or two for that to happen (no DMG on my 3rd flash drive).

This repeats NI times until the Wraiths are dead. The population moves back and now contains several Clerics of Pelor, each probably sitting around th 3rd level. Zombie Apocalypse? Yeah, this town is quite prepared for it now.

[phaedrusxy]

Sounds like a great campaign beginning.

[PsyBomb]

Per ADM, the 30 seconds it took to kill the first 100? Hmm...

Say you started with 10,000 Commoners. However the alarm was raised and rather than fighting the remaining 90,900 flee. So at 36 seconds 100 Wraiths start chasing new targets. They have +4 to track but are unable to overcome anything over DC 10. As an irony in the rule, by cross Aid-ding each other in 5ft intervals even a mob of people leave so little of a trail the Wraiths are unable to fully pursue. But let's donate another 900 souls for mishaps and stragglers.

9,000 Commoners regroup away from town to battle the remaining 1,000 Wraiths. They turn to Pelor, the most well known Good-Aligned Deity of Light & Healing for guidance and help. For successfully fleeing the Encounter they were awarded XP and 10% of them spend Retrain into Clerics giving us 900 Clerics which is far more than enough to handle the job. They choose the Glory & Sun Domains, half the group take Improved Turning and the other half takes Combine Turning as their 1st level Feats, and pool their wealth to obtain as Flametouched Iron as they can for holy symbols. Any Humans in the group additionally take Exalted Turning as a back up. In groups of two they split up and run around gathering several Wraiths into a group around them then they unleash the Sun Domain's power to destroy them. The last two uses of Turn Undead are used for tactical retreats, and through Exalted Turning several are damage with no means to heal them selves. The victorious Clerics bank their XPs hoping to level up. And CR 5 vs two CR1s, I'm sure it only takes an Encounter or two for that to happen (no DMG on my 3rd flash drive).

This repeats NI times until the Wraiths are dead. The population moves back and now contains several Clerics of Pelor, each probably sitting around the 3rd level. Zombie Apocalypse? Yeah, this town is quite prepared for it now.

Except that this both assumes all the Commoners are alert, have perfect teamwork, perfect availability of a campaign-specific material, easy egress from the area, and notably dumb wraiths (which they aren't, Int 14). Also assumes they get very lucky while running away, since hiding tracks while within 60ft of one of the Wraiths is a god way to waste a turn of movement. Even in this case, the 10,000 commoners end up losing a third of their number (+2 turn resistance and the statistical certainty of lucky crits or bad damage rolls or this kind of sample size) before the plague is done, making this as effective as the Black Plague. 3,000 kills is not a bad starting point for the effort it would take to crate up the hundred starting wraiths.

Now, let's go ahead and tack on situational modifiers. All attacks will take place at night or at least away from the sun, due to daylight powerlessness. Hide +11 and making no sound due to Incorporeal, most of those clerics are going to end up ambushed at night by mobs of Wraith Spawn charging from 100-120 feet away (-10 or 12 to Spot, assuming they have Low-Light or Darkvision that far). Assume all the Cleric-Candidates have Wis16 (generous) and took maximum cross-class ranks in Spot (unlikely), we're looking at any Human having a whopping +5 total check (Elves are all the way up to +7), for a total required roll of... well, minimum 17 (15 for an Elf) assuming one of the ambush party wraiths rolled a 1 instead of taking 10. This is on clear nights, any situation where a Human couldn't see 60 feet (nights of new or crescent moon, heavy overcast, any precipitation, etc) means that they can't even make the spot checks and WILL be surprised. This is discounting that the Wraiths are at +7 initiative, and conveniently none of their enemies have more than a +5 check (since none have Improved Initiative, and this assumes an Elf Commoner had 16 Wis and 20 Dex while retaining enough Cha for decent turn checks and Int to follow tactics)

Now, I'm not saying it'll be a total-city kill... but if more than 5% escape the Plague I'd be surprised. These 5% would be the ones under the immediate guard of level 5+ PC parties or 7+ NPC parties that include sufficient casters and/or wealth for Ghost Touch. Even a party of mid-optimization level 5 PCs will have trouble when their enemy comes in groups of 10+ CR5.

[SorO_Lost]

<snip>

You missed the point of my post just as I missed the point of yours (people still get away and become Clerics!). *best guru impression ever* But every party needs a pooper and that's why they invited you. */end*

However, since you were so nice to me allow me to return the favor. Not even Dwarf and Drow towns are not built in outerspace or in a single exit dungeon-cave. Urban environments provide Total-Cover at every turn ( ) And your hyper realism example of omg Hide vs Spot has the would be Cleric conquers (whom murder using ready actions that ignore hide checks) returning at night for some retarded reason also ignored all possibilities of Spellscasting (such as your inescapable place being flooded with blessed water), you know. On top of it's obvious problem

I mean really, if you post a thread asking for a level 1 Cleric to beat a Wraith in an Op Forum, you're going to get an answer.

[PsyBomb]

<snip>

You missed the point of my post just as I missed the point of yours (people still get away and become Clerics!). *best guru impression ever* But every party needs a pooper and that's why they invited you. */end*

However, since you were so nice to me allow me to return the favor. Not even Dwarf and Drow towns are not built in outerspace or in a single exit dungeon-cave. Urban environments provide Total-Cover at every turn ( ) And your hyper realism example of omg Hide vs Spot has the would be Cleric conquers (whom murder using ready actions that ignore hide checks) returning at night for some retarded reason also ignored all possibilities of Spellscasting (such as your inescapable place being flooded with blessed water), you know. On top of it's obvious problem

I mean really, if you post a thread asking for a level 1 Cleric to beat a Wraith in an Op Forum, you're going to get an answer.

Eh, we both misread the point, I was just talking about out in that field. Didn't call it inescapable, either, just more difficult than plain running. You got me curious, though... I think I'm going to ask that in CharOpt

[Dragon lord]

I think that you both missed the point that the city is currently under siege by an undead army which lobbed the wraiths over the wall in a crate, so there's no escaping to the countryside.  ( I'm thinking swarms of skeletons and zombies in full plate under the command of more intelligent undead)

[PsyBomb]

I think that you both missed the point that the city is currently under siege by an undead army which lobbed the wraiths over the wall in a crate, so there's no escaping to the countryside.  ( I'm thinking swarms of skeletons and zombies in full plate under the command of more intelligent undead)

... yep, we both missed that. Mid-siege that would be a whole 'nother beast, I was under the assumption of a stealth attack.