Author Topic: Discussion Thread  (Read 8837 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Discussion Thread
« on: December 05, 2016, 07:37:30 AM »
Go ahead and post comments here :)
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 08:35:45 AM »
OK so, the ACFs are in progress, and feats are getting trimmed down in the process. I'll be writing more feats in general - that's the main way to beef up fighters. If anyone wants to add more adaptations for existing PrCs, or at the very least wants to start compiling a list of published PrCs that need adaptation, please feel free to do so! (hint hint)
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 10:42:10 AM »
What's new and could use a perusal?

Edit: Anything besides the ACF's that is.

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2016, 10:34:53 PM »
Share Training power has a misplaced tag in the Augment.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 10:35:12 AM »
What's new and could use a perusal?

Edit: Anything besides the ACF's that is.
Hm. I think... the new version of the Blademaster prc? And the published PrC stuff in the same thread.

Share Training power has a misplaced tag in the Augment.
Whoops, thank you.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 11:57:39 AM »
Furious Gladiator seems effectively worse than normal Rage until level 17 when it becomes amazing.

I see no issue with the other ACFs.

I actually really like the adaptation for Bear Warrior.

All the other adaptations look nice.

On the Blademaster, Duty is heavier than a mountain is mettle and evasion combined which sets of alarm bells but at that level I don't think it's a legitimate problem.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 02:10:54 PM »
Furious Gladiator seems effectively worse than normal Rage until level 17 when it becomes amazing.
This came about from me wondering how to integrate Bladecraft & barbarian without continuing to make barb way better than fighter. The answer I came up with was: stealth-nerf rage with some minor Bladecraft bonuses. I'm not super happy with the result. Any ideas?

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I see no issue with the other ACFs.

I actually really like the adaptation for Bear Warrior.
Awesome! Except that I've now removed Raging Bladeform in favor of that barb ACF. So... yeah.

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All the other adaptations look nice.
Rock on.

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On the Blademaster, Duty is heavier than a mountain is mettle and evasion combined which sets of alarm bells but at that level I don't think it's a legitimate problem.
That was my thought as well. It's a capstone on a 5-level prc, sure, but you still have to make your saves.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 02:45:06 PM »
I'll think about ways to improve Furious Gladiator.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 10:52:03 AM »
I'll think about ways to improve Furious Gladiator.
What if, for the Tireless Rage thing, instead of having it be automatic, you can make a Bladecraft check to have the round not count towards duration in place of retaining a tag? That should help with the huge jump in power at 17th level.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2016, 12:12:57 PM »
I'll think about ways to improve Furious Gladiator.
What if, for the Tireless Rage thing, instead of having it be automatic, you can make a Bladecraft check to have the round not count towards duration in place of retaining a tag? That should help with the huge jump in power at 17th level.

That sounds good, but I'm still not sure if the rest of the ACF is good enough.  Sorry, this had fallen off my radar.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2016, 11:31:05 AM »
Added more ACFs, removed more feats. I'm done removing feats - I have several more ACFs to write, and then I want to add a bunch more fighter-style feats.

I took out Furious Gladiator because I'm still not sold on it; here's the current text, for reference as we overhaul:

(click to show/hide)
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2016, 12:56:32 PM »
ACFs
Animatrix of War looks fine except why would a Dread Necromancer want to be in the thick of things with it's horrible BAB?

Blade Dancer has some typos (see you dance/see you sing are used interchangeably). 

Deadly Hunter doesn't say Deadly Hunter in the spoiler.  As a side note, I like the idea of this replacing combat styles from a thematic standpoint.

Devious Assailant could get a little high with damage dice.  At 9th level it's 5d6 sneak attack vs 4d8 bladecraft which isn't bad.  But at 14th level you're talking 7d6 sneak attack vs 12d6 bladecraft dice (and it gets worse from there).

Devoted Soldier looks just fine.

Eremite looks fine.  However, it brings up some questions.  Does an off-hand unarmed attack count for the Rend tag?  There should probably be a "Bladecraft while unarmed" section.

Mobile Duelist brings up the same potential damage issues as Devious Assailant now that I'm thinking about it.



Furious Gladiator Discussion
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2016, 05:39:52 PM »
ACFs
Animatrix of War looks fine except why would a Dread Necromancer want to be in the thick of things with it's horrible BAB?
  :sparta

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Blade Dancer has some typos (see you dance/see you sing are used interchangeably). 
Derp. Fixing.

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Deadly Hunter doesn't say Deadly Hunter in the spoiler.  As a side note, I like the idea of this replacing combat styles from a thematic standpoint.
Blah. Also, yay!

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Devious Assailant could get a little high with damage dice.  At 9th level it's 5d6 sneak attack vs 4d8 bladecraft which isn't bad.  But at 14th level you're talking 7d6 sneak attack vs 12d6 bladecraft dice (and it gets worse from there).
Ok, but I will remind you that a rogue doing this is doing it in melee. And in a Basic Form. It becomes more situational as you get higher in level.

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Devoted Soldier looks just fine.
You know it...  :smirk

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Eremite looks fine.  However, it brings up some questions.  Does an off-hand unarmed attack count for the Rend tag?  There should probably be a "Bladecraft while unarmed" section.
Uh.... yeah. OK I'll add that section.

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Mobile Duelist brings up the same potential damage issues as Devious Assailant now that I'm thinking about it.
Indeed. Though significantly less so, because it's just less damage.



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Furious Gladiator Discussion
Yes, I was aware of all that. The problem I have is that Barb is the best non-ToB pure melee class, and adding Bladecraft to the mix just powers it up, which is problematic.

Unless... what if I change it so that you CAN'T use techniques while raging? And so that this Fury becomes a side-grade because you're replacing better stat bonii with the ability to use techniques??
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2016, 05:59:45 PM »
On Furious Gladiator, there are lots of alternate rages already.  Why not just make a whole new type of rage instead of trying to tone down normal rage?  Or base it off another type of rage.

Example: Base it off of Whirling Frenzy, replace the extra attack with the form switching.  Remove the Reflex bonus since you removed the Will bonus from normal rage.

New Comparison:
Level 1 Rage: +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Will, -2 AC
Level 1 Furious Gladiator: +4 Str, +2 AC, enter form when raging

Level 11 Rage: +6 Str, +6 Con, +3 Will, -2 AC
Level 11 Furious Gladiator: +6 Str, +3 AC, enter form when raging

Level 17 Rage: +6 Str, +6 Con, +3 Will, -2 AC, no fatigue at end of rage
Level 17 Furious Gladiator: +6 Str, +3 AC, enter form when raging, make bladecraft checks to prolong rage

Level 20 Rage: +8 Str, +8 Con, +4 Will, -2 AC, no fatigue at end of rage
Level 20 Furious Gladiator: +8 Str, +4 AC, enter form when raging, make bladecraft checks to prolong rage



You could say that techniques and rage aren't compatible, but in that case be prepared to have a barbarian who knows techniques to be a rarity unless you make it a feat tax or wrap it into a prestige class or make it a higher level rage ability, etc.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2016, 11:51:03 PM »
Added the rest of the ACFs. I'll be doing feats and special combat rules tomorrow.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2016, 04:29:10 PM »
More ACFs

Analytical Mystic looks very good.

Captain looks better than normal Marshal.  This isn't a bad thing.  Also your list is broken.

Cunning Versatility looks fine.

Curse-Slayer looks better than normal Hexblade.  Again, not a bad thing.

Daimyo - Holy crap a samurai option that isn't godawful.

Fox is interesting.

Furious Gladiator - Aww, you used my example alernative.  That makes me happy.

Ithron has too much bolding!  Again, this one is actively interesting.

Soul Assassin looks fine.

Uhlan looks good but familiar.  Was this created to replace a feat?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2016, 07:10:45 PM »
More ACFs

Analytical Mystic looks very good.

Captain looks better than normal Marshal.  This isn't a bad thing.  Also your list is broken.
Whoops, fixed.

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Cunning Versatility looks fine.

Curse-Slayer looks better than normal Hexblade.  Again, not a bad thing.

Daimyo - Holy crap a samurai option that isn't godawful.
:D

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Fox is interesting.

Furious Gladiator - Aww, you used my example alernative.  That makes me happy.

Ithron has too much bolding!  Again, this one is actively interesting.
Derp, also fixed.

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Soul Assassin looks fine.

Uhlan looks good but familiar.  Was this created to replace a feat?
Most of it came from the Cavalier's Bladeform feat, yes.
[/quote]
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2016, 09:34:47 PM »
Deadly Hunter also has too much bolding.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2017, 08:34:07 PM »
Have you integrated whatever changes came from the temporary board back into this?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2017, 12:41:40 AM »
Have you integrated whatever changes came from the temporary board back into this?
Not yet - it was just a couple of edits for the techniques, right?

Added a new type of feat - [Style] feats. Only have the first four done right now, but the others will be up soon. Also, I really want a Bladecraft version of the Weapon Focus tree, but I haven't figured out how I want to do it yet. Any suggestions for both of those, or for the special combat rules (I have some notes involving mounted Bladecraft, but not the rest) would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Also added the Mystic Blade feat, which was long overdue. However, I'm having second thoughts, thinking that this maybe should fall under "Special Combat Rules" instead. Thoughts? Better language for clarifications?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 12:55:54 AM by sirpercival »
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.