Author Topic: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)  (Read 79883 times)

Offline McPoyo

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2012, 11:01:42 AM »
According to AEG, you can add armor enchantments to Bracers of Armor... also, if you can Magic Vestment you should be able to add armor enhancement bonus since the robe simply applies an armor bonus.

Aye? A ruling on this?
RAW, no. The bracers thing was a one-off because you normally can't, and the FAQ states non-armor clothing isn't valid for armor enchantments. GMV works because it calls it out in the spell. Also, robes are a separate magic item slot bonus, they don't occupy the armor slot.

Your call, though.

Incorrect. Armor occupies the "Body" slot, as do Robes. Check the MIC's lists of items by slot.
Well look at that!

Doesn't negate the other stuff, though.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2012, 11:11:08 AM »
It might not be RAW, but what we've done in my group is allow people to enhance their robes as armor, following all of those rules, and making the person pay the layering cost (50%) for any magic robe abilities.

The precedent is the fact that there are robes that have an enhancement bonus to AC, and there are some that have properties that can come on armor also.

Still, I don't see any reason to disallow it, as it is pretty much the point of the layering cost rules to do stuff like this.
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #102 on: February 02, 2012, 11:34:27 AM »
It's cool if you pay the layering cost.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #103 on: February 02, 2012, 11:43:26 AM »
Sweet!  I'll adjust my equipment then.
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #104 on: February 02, 2012, 01:12:39 PM »
Just going to throw the issue of general game type up into the air again. I think the campaign will probably be at least partially sandbox(there's no way in hell I'm even going to try to restrain this party to a set of railroads), but would you still like a mostly linear story, or am I going to just set you loose in a setting I sketch up real quick and then watch the explosions from a safe distance?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2012, 02:48:32 PM »
Either way is good for me.

Some more bizarre questions:

~I buy a Portable Hole.  I cast Drawmij's Instant Summons on the Hole.  I go inside the Hole and cast Magnificent Mansion.  I enter the Mansion and close the door.  Then I trigger the Summons so that the Hole is in my pocket.  What happens? Can I plane shift out?

~I create a mindraped Ice Assassin of myself, once I have a continuous item of Friendly Fire.  We stand next to each other and I cast Enervation on the assassin, and he deflects it back at me, and I deflect it back at him, ad nauseum while we go around adventuring.  Then, as a non-action, as soon as we see someone we dislike, one of us bounces it at the offender.  We do this with any number of spells.  Yes or no?
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #106 on: February 02, 2012, 02:56:31 PM »
A: Excellent question. To avoid any major mindfucks, I'm going to say you wind up wherever the hole was, with the hole in your pocket. The mansion is still inside the hole.

B: where is friendly fire from?

Offline HeadofVecna

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #107 on: February 02, 2012, 03:15:23 PM »
Color me interested. I'm leaning towards planar shepard. Not sure if any other prc would help rather than hurt, although picking up UMD as a class would be great for sonorous him during time bubble shenanigans. Race would probably be venerable anthropomorphic bat. I'm out of town and afb though, so all details are subject to change.

Sorry, I've disallowed changing the time traits of custom demiplanes, because A: I don't think the text of genesis actually implies that you can do that, and B: It puts unlimited actions at your disposal, such it's sort of an infinite loop(minus the loop part)

I think he's talking about the Planar Shepherd + Dal Quor Planar Bubble, with 10:1 time.

EDIT: Can a robe of arcane might be enchanted/magic vestment-ed like armor?
Yep. Dal Quor was what I had in mind. That or possibly a layer of the Abyss with similar qualities. But maybe action spam is not the way to go. Early access to mind switch via Ardent then Illithid savant? Still afb, so I'm not sure if its feasible.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #108 on: February 02, 2012, 03:34:48 PM »
Don't need Mind Switch.  Be a changeling with Racial Emulation.  Emulate a Incarnate Construct Effigy Illithid.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #109 on: February 02, 2012, 03:36:02 PM »
A: Excellent question. To avoid any major mindfucks, I'm going to say you wind up wherever the hole was, with the hole in your pocket. The mansion is still inside the hole.

Could have it be a closed loop.... but then what happens when you go out the door?  Probably best to just fix it.

Quote
B: where is friendly fire from?

Exemplars of Evil.  Best spell EVAR.
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #110 on: February 02, 2012, 03:53:52 PM »
Fairly sure the friendly fire thing won't work. the spell is continually reflected between you and your Ice Assasin. However, since each reflection happens on the same turn as the last, we get into an infinite loop of the spell bouncing back and forth, until one of you reflect it into something else. But you don't get to take any actions until that happens(you could possibly keep using celerity to get a move action to keep moving, but that would deplete a lot of slots).

Still, friendly fire is crazy broken.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #111 on: February 02, 2012, 03:57:09 PM »
Fairly sure the friendly fire thing won't work. the spell is continually reflected between you and your Ice Assasin. However, since each reflection happens on the same turn as the last, we get into an infinite loop of the spell bouncing back and forth, until one of you reflect it into something else. But you don't get to take any actions until that happens(you could possibly keep using celerity to get a move action to keep moving, but that would deplete a lot of slots).

Still, friendly fire is crazy broken.

That's fine.  I'm just looking for more game-breakage, and I happened upon a couple that actually were broken.  :)

Don't you love the spell?? Even without custom items, the kicker is that it's PERSISTABLE.  And it's abjuration, so a divine magician DMM persister rocks it hard.
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #112 on: February 03, 2012, 06:36:02 AM »
Alright, I'm at work 4 hours early due to work shenanigan, so assuming I don't pass out when I finally get home, I should have at least a skeleton up later today.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #113 on: February 03, 2012, 08:39:46 AM »
Hey Aye, did you get a chance to glance at the 4 (current) proposed custom items?  They're in the build post.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #114 on: February 03, 2012, 10:08:06 AM »
More mindbending questions!

1) Say I cast a Shadow Genesis using Invisible Spell.  What does the resulting demiplane look like?

2) My invisible demiplane has normal, fertile, invisible dirt.  Say I then cast an invisible shadow TC to get 60 cubic feet of assorted seeds (grass, oak trees, shrubberies), which I then plant in my invisible dirt using an army of invisible unseen servants.  Then I get a Druid, cast invisibility on him (hey, why not?) and have him hit the whole shebang with plant growth.  Do invisible plants grow?

3) Say I then get into genetic experimentation and create a crossbreed between a pixie and a dwarf, let's call it a Dwixie, which is a naturally invisible stoneworking race.  I then import a whole bunch of them onto my invisible demiplane and have them start mining invisible stone and metal, which they combine with invisible wood from question 2 and create invisible siege engines.  Then I train my dwixies to create an invisible army outfit with invisible equipment, and go to conquer Spain.

When one of my invisible dwixie catapult crews fires an invisible stone from its invisible catapult, what happens? Do the catapult and/or the stone turn visible again?  The invisibility of the wood and stone parts is separate from the invisibility of the dwixies (who have greater invis anyway) that are actually "making the attack."

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Offline AyeGill

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #115 on: February 03, 2012, 10:28:36 AM »
Custom items are good, and that is the best plan ever. RAW, things that are invisible from invisible spell don't become visible if they make an attack, so your siege engines would be fine.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #116 on: February 03, 2012, 10:31:30 AM »
My Dwixie army will take over the world!  :evillaugh
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #117 on: February 03, 2012, 10:45:46 AM »
Note to self: True Sight on absolutely everything.

This is looking more and more likely to devolve into a conflict for world domination with the party as one superpower

Offline McPoyo

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #118 on: February 03, 2012, 10:51:23 AM »
Nah, just use gust of wind and huge piles of flour. Way cheaper.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Madness? This! Is! MINMAX!(Or the ministry of ungentlemanly DnD)
« Reply #119 on: February 03, 2012, 10:59:23 AM »
Nah, just use gust of wind and huge piles of flour. Way cheaper.

Include several dozen commoners with the Chicken-infested flaw (for eggs), a hundred cows, Earthquake, Fire Storm, and some sugar & vanilla, and voila!  The plane of Cake.
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