Author Topic: Arhosan Seedcasting Index & Discussion  (Read 73351 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2016, 03:00:41 PM »
Added Spells with Multiple Seeds to Rules thread
Added Rolling Mist and Repulsion to Seeds thread

Quote
The ones in the special category (arc, cage, etc.) say which types they work with and how they combine them. Anything that works with one of their categories (unless restricted to a specific targeting type within that category) should work with it. Or am I misunderstanding your question? I think I'm misunderstanding your question.

As an example that might illustrate it, how would you deal with a spell effect that allows only one of the two types for a special? Does it still work? And so the Special targeting options are a sort of separate category that's always available, provided you can meet the component parts (like area + continuous for Flood). If so, a Repulsion Flood is an area that keeps pushing creatures to the edge of it every round, even though it doesn't allow continuous target options?

If you just wanted a repeating Repulsion in an area, you'd use a Pulse. The spell as a whole would use a continuous spell's emanation for its area, and each round it would apply the instantaneous area spell effect of Repulsion within it. Since the spell as a whole is as an emanation, it could be dispelled by an area Dispel Magic type of effect, which would make the Repulsion stop repeating every round.

Flood is for if you wanted to combine it with another seed that's working as a continuous spell. For example, Repulsion (area) + Rolling Mist (continuous) as a Flood would create a zone of fog that pushes people out of it every round.

Hmm, would it maybe be clearer with different terminology? Say, "emanation" or "zone" instead of "continuous"?

Okay, the combining two effects thing was the part I missed - the name Flood didn't suggest it to me, honestly. And I think Emanation is a better name than Continuous, at least from a clarity point of view. Nanshork, thoughts?

Edit: Started writing up the basic general rules, using the Ancient Spell Seed rules as a base. Do these all look good? They do not cover everything, and given he's currently got all the targeting, etc., under his belt, I'll let Garryl focus on any rules around those.

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« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 03:13:26 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2016, 03:13:56 PM »
Everybody stop talking while I'm trying to talk!  :P


@Garryl

Retributive - Language needs to be clearer then, I interpreted it as pick a single target option for the retribution.

Sphere - I meant a sphere that goes through walls/ceiling/floor but then I looked it up and none of the spells I could come up with actually do that so nevermind.

Special targeting needs examples to explain them better (not neccessarily an example spell writeup, just something like what you wrote for flood.
Quote
The area's filled with constant stuff (ex: filled with fog, or a zone of bad luck that gives a -2 on saves while you're in it). Then, every round, something happens (ex: a burst of fire damage, or everyone in the area risks getting hit by a permanent curse).



@Strat


Casting Time - I don't like the word cost if we're not actually spending points on the Rules section. I prefer something like the following:

"Some durations have a cost reduction.  When choosing a duration with a negative point value, that number is reduced from the total point value of the choices you made for Duration, Range, and Targeting of the spell.  (Effectively the negative number is added to the amount of points you can allocate to those choices.)  It does not effect the number of spell points the caster can spend on a spell, but it does allow him to pick better Duration, Range, and Targeting options than he would otherwise be able to do."

Targeting - You always bring up NWN as examples.  Nobody else remembers the rules for those games. :P

Persistent/Permanent - How about you restrict those durations to specific targeting?  That should reduce abuse.  I can see a reason for them from a conceptual perspective.




Ugh, another post!  Stop that!

Yes, changing the name away from Continuous will probably make it less confusing to me.  Something like Emanation or Aura or Ambient or Atmospheric (yes, I looked at a thesaurus).

The Spells with Multiple Seeds section looks fine, man this is going to be a complicated system.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2016, 03:21:48 PM »
Everybody stop talking while I'm trying to talk!  :P

Not only did I not, I edited in more material while you were talking.


@Strat

Casting Time - I don't like the word cost if we're not actually spending points on the Rules section. I prefer something like the following:

"Some durations have a cost reduction.  When choosing a duration with a negative point value, that number is reduced from the total point value of the choices you made for Duration, Range, and Targeting of the spell.  (Effectively the negative number is added to the amount of points you can allocate to those choices.)  It does not effect the number of spell points the caster can spend on a spell, but it does allow him to pick better Duration, Range, and Targeting options than he would otherwise be able to do."

Noted. I shall tweak.

Targeting - You always bring up NWN as examples.  Nobody else remembers the rules for those games. :P

I spent seven years writing and rewriting every single bit of player side code in that game. At this point, it's seared into my memory.

Persistent/Permanent - How about you restrict those durations to specific targeting?  That should reduce abuse.  I can see a reason for them from a conceptual perspective.

I actually mind them a lot less on spells that don't target creatures. A permanent duration wall of fire is a neat trick. A permanent duration polymorph buff is just abusing the system. So maybe only allow Continuous/Emanation target options to be made permanent, and nothing that targets a creature?

Ugh, another post!  Stop that!

Hahahahaha, never!  :blah

Yes, changing the name away from Continuous will probably make it less confusing to me.  Something like Emanation or Aura or Ambient or Atmospheric (yes, I looked at a thesaurus).

I think Emanation is the best, honestly. We've already got Aura in use somewhere else.

The Spells with Multiple Seeds section looks fine, man this is going to be a complicated system.

Oddly enough, I think once players are use to it, it won't be too bad. Learning curve will be one of those systems where you need an experienced hand to show you around though.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2016, 03:26:14 PM »
Can't be bothered to write it out now, but we need a point blank range option specifically for spells like lines and cones and self-centered bursts that has a range equal to the spell's radius (or line's length). Also possibly a variation on Area (Burst) and Continuous (Circle) for spells centered on yourself that makes you unaffected (it only hits things near you, not you).

Also, need to rename Continuous (Emanation) to Emanation (Zone).

Everybody stop talking while I'm trying to talk!  :P

No.

Quote
@Garryl

Retributive - Language needs to be clearer then, I interpreted it as pick a single target option for the retribution.

Not terribly surprising.

Quote
Sphere - I meant a sphere that goes through walls/ceiling/floor but then I looked it up and none of the spells I could come up with actually do that so nevermind.

Special targeting needs examples to explain them better (not neccessarily an example spell writeup, just something like what you wrote for flood.
Quote
The area's filled with constant stuff (ex: filled with fog, or a zone of bad luck that gives a -2 on saves while you're in it). Then, every round, something happens (ex: a burst of fire damage, or everyone in the area risks getting hit by a permanent curse).

Yeah, definitely a good idea to have examples, especially for the more complex options.

Quote
The Spells with Multiple Seeds section looks fine, man this is going to be a complicated system.

Hmm, building spells from their basic blocks every time you cast, with an intent behind the system of being able to build damn near every existing spell (at least the concept of them, if not the exact mechanics) from an already horrendously versatile system with a bazillion and one options. Complicated?

Nah, I just don't see it.

Multiclassing
Multiclassed characters with more than one spell point pool do not share their spell points between classes, nor do they share their seeds. Likewise, caster level and class levels do not stack. They otherwise remain able to cast their spells as per normal.

If you're multiclassed, but don't share your seeds between classes, can you learn the same seed in multiple classes? I expect yes, but it's best to make it crystal clear.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2016, 03:37:16 PM »
@Strat

Ugh, I said I don't like the word cost and then forgot to edit out the word cost.   :banghead  Delete the entire first sentence for my casting time rewrite.

Quote
I actually mind them a lot less on spells that don't target creatures. A permanent duration wall of fire is a neat trick. A permanent duration polymorph buff is just abusing the system. So maybe only allow Continuous/Emanation target options to be made permanent, and nothing that targets a creature?

I don't see any issues with that.

The Spellcasting general rules section looks fine.

@Garryl

You want too many targeting options.  :P

Write up some examples then, you know what you meant when you wrote those things! Nanshork cracks his slave-driving whip.


Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2016, 03:40:08 PM »
Can't be bothered to write it out now, but we need a point blank range option specifically for spells like lines and cones and self-centered bursts that has a range equal to the spell's radius (or line's length). Also possibly a variation on Area (Burst) and Continuous (Circle) for spells centered on yourself that makes you unaffected (it only hits things near you, not you).

Maybe just have a 1 point option that makes the caster immune to the effects of that particular spell?

Yeah, definitely a good idea to have examples, especially for the more complex options.

We are going to need a lot of examples :banghead

Quote
The Spells with Multiple Seeds section looks fine, man this is going to be a complicated system.

Hmm, building spells from their basic blocks every time you cast, with an intent behind the system of being able to build damn near every existing spell (at least the concept of them, if not the exact mechanics) from an already horrendously versatile system with a bazillion and one options. Complicated?

Nah, I just don't see it.

On the other hand, once you have a fun set of spells set up, you just jot them down and reuse. It's just first time setup that's the problem. Course... if you keep tweaking, that's all the time. Still, I think people would learn. :D

Multiclassing
Multiclassed characters with more than one spell point pool do not share their spell points between classes, nor do they share their seeds. Likewise, caster level and class levels do not stack. They otherwise remain able to cast their spells as per normal.

If you're multiclassed, but don't share your seeds between classes, can you learn the same seed in multiple classes? I expect yes, but it's best to make it crystal clear.

Yes, you can.

Updated the general rules I snuck in in an edit earlier with a (hopefully) clear example of spell point cost calculation.
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2016, 03:42:46 PM »
@Strat

Ugh, I said I don't like the word cost and then forgot to edit out the word cost.   :banghead  Delete the entire first sentence for my casting time rewrite.

The Spellcasting general rules section looks fine.

See post just posted :P

Quote
I actually mind them a lot less on spells that don't target creatures. A permanent duration wall of fire is a neat trick. A permanent duration polymorph buff is just abusing the system. So maybe only allow Continuous/Emanation target options to be made permanent, and nothing that targets a creature?

I don't see any issues with that.

I'll add in a notation somewhere. Probably on the duration list itself, so it's not duplicated across every spell seed?

@Garryl

You want too many targeting options.  :P

Write up some examples then, you know what you meant when you wrote those things! Nanshork cracks his slave-driving whip.

You are cruel, Nanshork.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2016, 03:54:18 PM »
@Strat

Ugh, I said I don't like the word cost and then forgot to edit out the word cost.   :banghead  Delete the entire first sentence for my casting time rewrite.

The Spellcasting general rules section looks fine.

See post just posted :P

Correction on the duration section of the rules post you just made.

It does not effect affect

That was my bad.

Quote from: Strat
Quote
I actually mind them a lot less on spells that don't target creatures. A permanent duration wall of fire is a neat trick. A permanent duration polymorph buff is just abusing the system. So maybe only allow Continuous/Emanation target options to be made permanent, and nothing that targets a creature?

I don't see any issues with that.

I'll add in a notation somewhere. Probably on the duration list itself, so it's not duplicated across every spell seed?
Yes, any limitations on a duration should be specified on that duration itself.

Quote from: Strat
@Garryl

You want too many targeting options.  :P

Write up some examples then, you know what you meant when you wrote those things! Nanshork cracks his slave-driving whip.

You are cruel, Nanshork.

You guys bring it upon yourselves.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2016, 03:58:59 PM »
Yeah, definitely a good idea to have examples, especially for the more complex options.

We are going to need a lot of examples :banghead

Single-Target Spells (Single)
Single-target spells target or affect a single subject.
  • Missiles (1, or 0 if only one target): Magic Missile (duh).
  • Ray (1): Scorching Ray, Ray of Frost.
  • Individual (0): Daze.
  • Touch (0): Shocking Grasp, Owl's Wisdom.
Multiple-Target Spells (Multiple)
Multiple-target spells target or affect multiple subjects.
  • Dispersed (1/target beyond the first): Haste, Slow.
  • Multi-touch (1/2 targets): Chill Touch.
  • Retributive (1+): Death Armor.
  • Ring (1+): Blade Barrier.
  • Wall (1+): Blade Barrier.
Area Spells (Area)
Area spells affect all subjects within their area as they are cast. Once the spell is cast, entering or leaving the area has no effect on whether a creature or object is affected. Area targeting components cost 1 SP less than normal for spells composed solely of effects that require a Reflex save.
  • Bolt (2): Call Lightning.
  • Burst (3): Glitterdust.
  • Cone (3): Cone of Cold.
  • Line (3): Lightning Bolt.
  • Pulse (0+): Storm of Vengeance, or at least its basic concept for the earlier rounds.
  • Radiating (3+): Wall of Fire
  • Shaped (5): I can't think of any spells like this, only the Scuplt Spell metamagic and the Shape Breath metabreath. More than a few emanations like this (see Sculpted).
  • Spread (4): Fireball.
Continuous Spells (Continuous)
Continuous spells affect their area and all subjects within it as long as they remain there. A subject that leaves the area ceases to be affected, and a subject that enters the area (whether or not it was originally affected at the time of casting) becomes newly affected (saving throws, spells resistance, and the like apply anew each time it enters the area).
  • Beam (3): Gust of Wind.
  • Circle (4): Magic Circle Against Evil.
  • Cloud (4): Fog Cloud.
  • Cylinder (4): Sleet Storm.
  • Emanation (3): Darkness.
  • Quadrant (3): Not sure if there are any spells that actually work like this. I'm pretty sure I've seen some homebrew ones, though.
  • Sculpted (5): Antipathy.
  • Spray (4): Detect Magic.
  • Stream (4): Sunbeam, or close to it.
Special
Some targeting options don't neatly fit into one category or another. These targeting options specify which types of spell seed effects they can be used with.
  • Arc (2/target): Lightning Leap, if it was broken down into multiple jumps instead of a single line. Lightning Leap itself would be a variation on this that using a single-target instead of a multiple-target.
  • Aura (4+): Ghoul Touch.
  • Cage (5+): Can't think of any spells that use this, it's just a really, really, really cool thing. General idea is it's like a cage. Inside, it's filled with bad stuff (like fog or lions). And when you cross the barrier, different bad things happen (like fire damage or bears).
  • Flood (1+): Acid Fog, Entangle, Incendiary Cloud, Web.
  • Shield (2+): Fire Shield.

Offline Amechra

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2016, 04:03:56 PM »
I might have to have a fiddle with this later.

Garryl, how would you build a spell that, say, lit evil creatures on fire if they leave the cage? (More generally, how do I make spell that targets only a specific alignment/creature type/widget)?
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2016, 04:14:27 PM »
I might have to have a fiddle with this later.

Garryl, how would you build a spell that, say, lit evil creatures on fire if they leave the cage? (More generally, how do I make spell that targets only a specific alignment/creature type/widget)?

That's a good question, we need the ability to do this.

Edit: Any issues with me creating a bunch of seeds?

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2016, 04:56:38 PM »
I might have to have a fiddle with this later.

Garryl, how would you build a spell that, say, lit evil creatures on fire if they leave the cage? (More generally, how do I make spell that targets only a specific alignment/creature type/widget)?

That's a good question, we need the ability to do this.

I'd probably recommend a special "extra" that can be chosen as an addition rider to Targeting.
  • Focused (3): Chose a single alignment or racial type. All of the spell's effects only apply to creatures with that alignment or racial type.
Also, we only started work yesterday. Even Garryl and I combined aren't that good. :P

Edit: Any issues with me creating a bunch of seeds?

As long as you're prepared for me grumping at you  :flutter

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2016, 05:24:48 PM »
Hey, you were complaining just the other day that I wasn't homebrewing for you. :P

A target for alignment/race sounds good.  Hooray racist spells.  Are you elven and going to war?  Make sure that your emanation buffs only help elves!

Can't decide how to write right now: Teleportation, Illusion (including invisibility), Teleportation, Stat boosters, Save boosters, Charm/Dominate/Command spells, Feather fall/Fly, Light/Darkness, Negative Levels, Bringing people back to life, Telekinesis, Detection spells (person,alignment,object,whatever), Lock/Unlock (also glyphs/trap spells), Anti-magic

All of the below probably need some tweaking.



Accelerate: Flavour (General Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Personal, Touch, Close
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch, Multi-touch, Dispersed
  • Duration: Any except Instantaneous
  • Save: None
  • Seed Effect: For 4 spell points gain an additional move action each turn for the duration.  This move action can come before, after, or between other actions, but not during a full-round action.
  • Extra Effect: For an additional 2 spell points, if the target takes a full-attack action it can, instead of taking an extra move action, make one additional attack at its highest attack bonus.
Decelerate: Flavour (General Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Personal, Touch, Close
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch, Multi-touch, Dispersed
  • Duration: Any except Instantaneous
  • Save: Will Negates
  • Seed Effect: For 4 spell points, the target is staggered for the duration.  The target gets a new saving throw against this spell at the end of each of its turns; a successful save ends the duration of the spell.
  • Extra Effect: For an additional 2 spell points, if the target fails the first saving throw it is staggerd for the entire duration.
Borrow Future: Flavour (General Seed) NOT NEEDED
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Touch, Close
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch
  • Duration: Instantaneous 
  • Save: None
  • Seed Effect: For 8 spell points, target an ally. They take either a standard action and a move action or a full-round action immediately after a wordspell with this effect word is cast (maximum once per round). The target skips its next turn, but any effects that would occur on its turn or spell effects that would expire on its turn occur normally. The target is not helpless on its next turn, but can take no actions.
  • Extra Effect: For 4 extra spell points, instead of losing its next turn the target is staggered instead.
Cramp: Flavour (Condition Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Divine, Nature, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Any except Unlimited
  • Targeting: All
  • Duration: Any but Instantaneous
  • Save: Fortitde negates.
  • Seed Effect: For every spell point spent, the targets of this spell have their base land speed reduced by 5 feet (to a minimum of 0 feet).
  • Extra Effect: For an extra 2 points, all movement speeds of the targets are affected.
Dash: Flavour (General Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Nature, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Personal, Touch, Close
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch, Multi-touch, Dispersed
  • Duration: Any except Instantaneous
  • Save: None
  • Seed Effect: For every spell point spent, the targets of this spell have their base land speed increased by 5 feet.
  • Extra Effect: For an extra 2 points, all movement speeds of the targets are affected.
Translate: Flavour (General Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Divine, Nature, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Personal, Touch
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch
  • Duration: All
  • Save: None
  • Seed Effect: For 1 spell point, the target can read text written in one particular language, including the language of magic. The caster picks the language when the spell is cast. For the duration, the target can read that language as if fluent in it. If the caster chooses magic as the language, the target can decipher scrolls, glyphs, and other magic writing without triggering them. This spell does not impart the ability to determine what a given language is based on its appearance; the caster must already know the language or guess what language the writing is in to do so.
  • Extra Effect: For 4 spell point, the target can read, write, speak, and understand one particular language, chosen by the caster. The language can be any that the caster is aware of, even racial languages or regional dialects.  For 8 spell points, the target can read, write, speak, and understand all languages of intelligent creatures, whether racial languages or regional dialects.
Force Armor: Flavour (General Seed?) NOT NEEDED
  • Seed Type: Arcane
  • Descriptor: Force
  • Range: Personal, Touch
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch
  • Duration: All
  • Save: None
  • Seed Effect: For 2 spell points, gain a +4 armor bonus to AC. This armor is made of force and provides protection against the attacks of incorporeal creatures. If the target has a greater armor bonus from another source, this spell instead increases that armor bonus by +1 and allows it to provide protection against the attacks of incorporeal creatures.
  • Extra Effect: For each additional 2 spell points spent, gain an extra +1 armor bonus.
Force Shield: Flavour (General Seed?) NOT NEEDED
  • Seed Type: Arcane
  • Descriptor: Force
  • Range: Personal, Touch
  • Targeting: Individual, Touch
  • Duration: All
  • Save: None
  • Seed Effect: For 2 spell points, gain a +4 shield bonus to AC. This shield is made of force and provides protection against the attacks of incorporeal creatures. If the target has a greater shield bonus from another source, this spell instead increases that armor bonus by +1 and allows it to provide protection against the attacks of incorporeal creatures.
  • Extra Effect: For each additional 2 spell points spent, gain an extra +1 shield bonus.
(Not sure if Force Shield should auto-block missiles or not.)


Edit: Wtf?  I can't increase the spacing between the spells unless there's a little comment at the end.  That annoys me.

Edit Edit: I had some shapechanging spells but I removed them for more tweaking.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2016, 05:44:02 PM »
QUESTION!

I'm writing up shapechanging spells that aren't game breaking.

I have two ways to go about this.  Generic and Specific.

Generic: general seeds, reflavor what you look like however you want.

Specific: turning into a humanoid is a different seed /seed tree than turning into an animal or whatever.


What is preferred?

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2016, 05:49:50 PM »
So, one thing I'll point out already is that these aren't (mostly) seeds - they're spells by a different name. They don't scale via points, which most of them should do. For instance, Armour and Shield (also, better names needed) should be +1 Armour bonus per spell point and +1 Shield bonus per spell point, like Warded Form. If it's a bonus or penalty, it should never be flat in this system. It should always be +/-X per spell point.

Accelerate should also have Extra Effect options to get a Standard action, and maybe even a full-round, eventually. Also, is there some reason this doesn't allow Emanations? An Emanation that increases the speed of everyone in it would be quite a fun ability to drop.

Decelerate I'd rather use the slow effect (it's not quite the same as Staggered). Also, why the random extra saves? Slow doesn't grant those, and it just adds a complication. Finally, same targeting complaint as Accelerate - doesn't let it be used in enough targeting options.

Borrow Future and Accelerate are too close in function to coexist easily. Also, does not need to mention ally - if the caster wants to target an enemy with it, let him. And why can the caster touch himself, but not use personal range?

Cramp/Dash should both be +/-5 feet of speed per spell point, with Cramp noting that a target can be immobilized by having a 0 ft. speed.

Decipher and Translate need to be combined, and extra effects added on. As it currently stands, no reasonable caster would take the seed.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2016, 06:05:03 PM »
So, one thing I'll point out already is that these aren't (mostly) seeds - they're spells by a different name. They don't scale via points, which most of them should do. For instance, Armour and Shield (also, better names needed) should be +1 Armour bonus per spell point and +1 Shield bonus per spell point, like Warded Form. If it's a bonus or penalty, it should never be flat in this system. It should always be +/-X per spell point.

The extra effect is scaling via points.  I just didn't want them to be shittier than the core spells at low levels.  Also, I didn't see Warded Form which negates the need for the armor and shield spells anyway.

Quote
Accelerate should also have Extra Effect options to get a Standard action, and maybe even a full-round, eventually. Also, is there some reason this doesn't allow Emanations? An Emanation that increases the speed of everyone in it would be quite a fun ability to drop.
I have no idea at what level that would be level appropriate for so I don't know how to balance the cost for that.

Right now we have no way to make an emanation with selective targeting.  Also I have no idea how to write Range + Emanation with this system.

Quote
Decelerate I'd rather use the slow effect (it's not quite the same as Staggered). Also, why the random extra saves? Slow doesn't grant those, and it just adds a complication. Finally, same targeting complaint as Accelerate - doesn't let it be used in enough targeting options.
Slow = staggered plus a speed penalty and some debuff unless I'm missing something. 

Well I could drop the extra saves and bump up the cost of the spell by 2 points to make it in line with Slow if you'd prefer.

Same emanation answer as above.

Quote
Borrow Future and Accelerate are too close in function to coexist easily. Also, does not need to mention ally - if the caster wants to target an enemy with it, let him. And why can the caster touch himself, but not use personal range?

Not having personal was an oversight but if you don't see a need for it there's no reason to fix it.

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Cramp/Dash should both be +/-5 feet of speed per spell point, with Cramp noting that a target can be immobilized by having a 0 ft. speed.

Fixed.

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Decipher and Translate need to be combined, and extra effects added on. As it currently stands, no reasonable caster would take the seed.

Combined into Translate.



Edit: Accelerate and Decelerate now have an extra effect.

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2016, 09:46:21 PM »
So... this looks pretty awesome so far! :clap

Utter Collapse spell seed (condition) - extra effect for an additional 3(?) SP beyond exhausted, target is unconscious?

Blackening Whip spell seed (damage) - extra effect for negative levels? or for ability damage? (or maybe this is a separate spell seed - possibly under "healing"?)

Mending Touch spell seed (healing) - special note for doing damage to undead?

EDIT:
Solar Glare: Flavor (Condition Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Divine, Nature, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Any except Unlimited
  • Targeting: All
  • Duration: Any but Instantaneous
  • Save: Fortitde negates.
  • Seed Effect: Target(s) become Dazzled. (2 points)
  • Extra Effect: For an additional 3 points, the target(s) are instead Blinded.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 10:08:44 PM by FireInTheSky »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2016, 11:00:47 PM »
Shapechanging seeds!

Trying for an astral construct-esque thing here.  It isn't working so well, I don't know if it's salvagable or should be scrapped.

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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2016, 07:00:28 AM »
The extra effect is scaling via points.  I just didn't want them to be shittier than the core spells at low levels.  Also, I didn't see Warded Form which negates the need for the armor and shield spells anyway.

Why not? It's not like Wizards, etc. really need the help at low levels, honestly. It's the only time they're actually balanced.

Warded Form doesn't really negate these - it's a different type of armour bonus. Now, the question becomes just how many +1 per 1 or 2 spell point armour bonus seeds we want, because you can have a ton with all the different types.

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Accelerate should also have Extra Effect options to get a Standard action, and maybe even a full-round, eventually. Also, is there some reason this doesn't allow Emanations? An Emanation that increases the speed of everyone in it would be quite a fun ability to drop.
I have no idea at what level that would be level appropriate for so I don't know how to balance the cost for that.

Right now we have no way to make an emanation with selective targeting.  Also I have no idea how to write Range + Emanation with this system.

Take a look at Chronomancy - all of those effects are used as slices over there.

You mean an allies only circle, roughly? Give Garryl a poking on that one, that's his realm :P

And depending on how you'd want to target it, you'd have a range of say, Close, and then an emanation of Cloud. That gets you an area of accelerated time.

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Decelerate I'd rather use the slow effect (it's not quite the same as Staggered). Also, why the random extra saves? Slow doesn't grant those, and it just adds a complication. Finally, same targeting complaint as Accelerate - doesn't let it be used in enough targeting options.
Slow = staggered plus a speed penalty and some debuff unless I'm missing something. 

Well I could drop the extra saves and bump up the cost of the spell by 2 points to make it in line with Slow if you'd prefer.

It'd be only a one point bump (Slow is a 3rd level spell, so that's five points), and dropping the saves. Which would make it a much stronger seed. Although... Slow might be a good effect to combine with Paralyzed as the rider.

So... this looks pretty awesome so far! :clap

Utter Collapse spell seed (condition) - extra effect for an additional 3(?) SP beyond exhausted, target is unconscious?

Maybe... It's probably the best place to put it as a condition effect, and it's no different really than being paralyzed, petrified, etc.

Blackening Whip spell seed (damage) - extra effect for negative levels? or for ability damage? (or maybe this is a separate spell seed - possibly under "healing"?)

At least under the previous system, ability damage and energy draining were each their own seed, so I'll probably keep it that way this time around too.

Mending Touch spell seed (healing) - special note for doing damage to undead?

Yeah, should put that in there. Course, it complicates the seed a fair bit, because now it also deals damage :banghead

EDIT:
Solar Glare: Flavor (Condition Seed)
  • Seed Type: Arcane, Divine, Nature, Skill
  • Descriptor: None
  • Range: Any except Unlimited
  • Targeting: All
  • Duration: Any but Instantaneous
  • Save: Fortitde negates.
  • Seed Effect: Target(s) become Dazzled. (2 points)
  • Extra Effect: For an additional 3 points, the target(s) are instead Blinded.

Dazzled I think can be a 1 point effect - it's a pretty weak condition. But I'd keep the Blinded cost at the same level - it's only a 2nd level spell after all.

Shapechanging seeds!

Trying for an astral construct-esque thing here.  It isn't working so well, I don't know if it's salvagable or should be scrapped.

Maybe try a different approach? For instance, I'll whip something up using Animalism as the base. Couple different options as a result. I, personally, favour the Woodland Form approach, which would have one seed per racial group (roughly, as you can see).

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Offline Garryl

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Re: Spellcasting Rebuild Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2016, 12:57:29 PM »
So, what sort of mutators are we looking at? I'm talking about ways of altering a spell's targeting in a general way that isn't necessarily tied to shape or spell seed.
- Allies or enemies only.
- Alignment-based.
- Type-based.

That being said, I think it might be better to do it by putting in those restrictions in the relevant seeds themselves. This doesn't work if you want these options to be super-general, but I'm not sure it would be the best idea for them to be super-general.
- Holy/Unholy/Axiomatic/Anarchic Barrier: +Ac, +saves, summoned creatures can't touch subjects (or enter the area, if an emanation). Only applies against the opposite alignment.
- Sympathetic Charm: Makes a creature of your type into a friend. Spend more SP to dominate it and/or to affect creatures of any type.
- Deific Fortune: Grants a +1 bonus to allies on attack rolls and saves against fear, or imposes a -1 penalty to enemies. Can spend extra SP to have the bonus/penalty apply to more things (damage rolls, all saves, skill checks, etc.), or to have both bonuses to allies and penalties to enemies.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 12:59:30 PM by Garryl »