Author Topic: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!  (Read 3790 times)

Offline Endarire

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Greetings, all!

I put this on a Google Spreadsheet for ease of data entry.  Remember, there are tabs at the bottom of the spreadsheet!  The first tab is a length explanation I won't reprint here.

Yes, this Sorcerer is more powerful than the PHB one.  It's meant to be - and is more fun in general for being that way!  It's also meant to avoid Monk Syndrome - conflicting abilities that should synergize, but don't due to poor authorship.

I'm looking for specific critique on what's too powerful, what's too weak, and what abilities we can add and tweak to make this more magnifique!  (Level 13 & 14 feel light on class features, but at least every level gives something.)  My benchmarks are what I commonly saw people do with Sorcerers and Wizards - enter Incantatrix ASAP and stay there for 10 levels, then hop to Archmage to finish their builds.  It's not what WotC had in mind when making Sorcerers and Wizards originally, but it's how people dealt with what they were given and had fun along the way.

Version 1.1 - May 22, 2015
-I revamped the Fun, Powerful Sorcerer.  Things look better, make more sense, and may be better balanced!  I still seek your opinions!

-Thank you to everyone who contributed feedback!  I considered it when making this version!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:12:53 PM by Endarire »

Offline Bronzebeard

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Re: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2015, 10:29:20 AM »
This seems to be very powerful.
Much test is needed.

I do have a few things to say:
Charismatic Will - level 9 looks to me as very far. I'd have it where evasion or mettle come into play: the first 4 levels.
Spell Focus - giving spell focus in every school would cover all the school by end-game. Moreover, sorcerers don't play around with school things. It's for wizard specialists. I would change it to "choose 3 spells each time you gain spell focus for all intents and purposes."

Can you focus me on what specific changes are you unsure about?

Offline Endarire

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Re: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 09:13:27 PM »
Updated!  Click the first post's link for more readin'!

Offline Endarire

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Re: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2015, 03:19:34 AM »
Updated again!  Now it looks prettier, has fewer bugs (none that I noticed upon review), and has more abilities!

Whatchya think of things now?

Offline Endarire

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Re: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 07:08:50 PM »
I updated it yet again with more balance.

Version 1.4
-Nerfed Spell Power (High Arcana) to a flat +1 caster level and +1 DC.
-Tweaked Arcane Ray (High Arcana) to be usable at will for 5d6 damage with the ability to invest a single Sorcerer spell slot for +2d6 damage per slot level.
-Nerfed Living Arcana's (High Arcana) duration to 1 round per Sorcerer level.  The ability now requires a swift action to activate and an immediate action to deactivate.
-Fixed bugs, but that's not why you're here.
-I added a general rule to the Sorcerer section (before the Class Features section) about the required action and side effects of investing extra spell slots to fuel Sorcerer stuff.
-Nerfed Sorcerous Conversion to be usable 2/day (down from 3).  It can only convert spells from other arcane classes, such as Wu Jen and Bard.
-Removed Sorcerous Conversion.  The ability to spend spell slots to cast from -any- spell list is probably an Epic ability.  (Yes, Epic!)
-Added Previously Personal Sorcery (Common Arcana).
-Sorcerer-granted spell-like abilities can be affected by metamagic feats, but not by feats that only affect SLA, like Quicken Spell-like Ability.  (Balance reasons.)

Offline Endarire

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Re: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2016, 04:43:47 PM »
I have yet again updated the class.  It's on version 1.9 now.  The most recent changes (besides mild bug fixes and clarifications) is the Lichdom High Arcana.

Offline Nifft

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Re: [D&D 3.5] The Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (FPS) seeks critique!
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 01:35:16 PM »
Skimming through, it looks like you took a bunch of feats & PrC class features, and made them into Sorcerer class features.

So you're basically saying: "You won't want to PrC out of Sorcerer ... because I put a bunch of PrC into Sorcerer!"

It's possible to make that method technically sound from a balance perspective, but IMHO it's pretty unsatisfactory, because making every Sorcerer into a hybrid Sorcerer + Archmage means that there's fewer interesting combinations across campaigns... and I haven't actually seen if your method is actually technically sound.

Some of these ideas seem like attempts to emulate Wizard flexibility, but without the associated costs. For example, being able to swap out one known spell for another is more like Cleric flexibility -- since you don't need to locate the replacement spell, nor pay to scribe it, etc. -- which takes out an element of... maybe balance, maybe just a reward for thinking ahead.

Other ideas seem like they're pointed at specific CharOp arguments against Sorcerer (e.g. "Use Cha for Spellcraft" => Incantatrix justification). I'm not sure why Knowledge skills got dragged along, though.

All in all: I mostly see a bump in numbers, and some huge flexibility increases which might be broken, but no distinct niche or playstyle enabled (other than intruding into the Wizard's shticks).

== == ==

Here's what I did for Sorcerers in my games:

- All Wizards must be Specialists.
- Wizards don't get bonus [Metamagic] feats. They must use their bonus feats for [Item Creation], Spell Focus, and stuff that has their school specialization as a prereq.

- Sorcerers get 0 + bonus spell slots (but no spells known) at every odd level. This keeps them competitive with Wizards for entering PrCs.
- Sorcerers get Eschew Materials at 1st level, and a bonus [Metamagic] feat every 5 levels.
- Sorcerers can use [Metamagic] feats on spells without increasing the casting time.
- Sorcerers get 4+Int skill points, and a better skill list.

If I were going to do my campaign houserules over, I'd probably do a bit more for the Sorcerer, but that little bit above was sufficient to make them as playable as Wizards in my jungle -> urban -> planes -> martian dungeons -> more cities -> more planes campaign.