Author Topic: Magic weapons for TWFing  (Read 2420 times)

Offline ImperatorK

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Magic weapons for TWFing
« on: December 17, 2015, 07:23:59 AM »
A while ago I suggested a rule that let a TWFer transfer some of his primary weapon's magic into his secondary weapon, partialy fixing the problem with TWFing being costly due to having to buy multiple magic weapons. Now I came up with a different rule that, I think, is better.
When creating a magic weapon you can choose to make two weapons be "bonded" together, in which case you only pay as if you enhanced one weapon, but both would get the benefits, but only when you wielded them both in combat.
So, on one hand, you get two magic weapons for the price of one. OTOH, you're forced into TWFing and you're screwed if for some reason you can't TWF.
What do you think?
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 08:55:21 AM »
I would still allow the benefits to apply to the primary weapon, regardless of whether the other one is wielded. Otherwise, I like the idea. Gave me the impetus to go back and finish my initial two weapon fighting improvement.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 11:15:57 AM »
Yeah, but then everyone would just have a second weapon for free.
Magic is for weaklings.

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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 11:19:32 AM »
Yeah, but then everyone would just have a second weapon for free.

Which puts them on an even footing with two handed fighters.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 03:12:03 PM »
When creating a magic weapon you can choose to make two weapons be "bonded" together, in which case you only pay as if you enhanced one weapon, but both would get the benefits, but only when you wielded them both in combat.
So, on one hand, you get two magic weapons for the price of one. OTOH, you're forced into TWFing and you're screwed if for some reason you can't TWF.
Honestly, 3E has always been pretty specific on what items you need to have. People frequently get specific laundry lists of items they want for their build. Getting a pair of bonded swords is no different than getting a single weapon of a type you're not specced for, or getting any other item you just don't care about.

It's probably fine.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2015, 12:58:09 AM »
For some reason I can't quick quote posts...

@ Stratovarius
Hm. I see what you're saying. I guess, they way you worded it, it could work. I mean, two-handers (can) only use one weapon (unless you cheese it out with armor spikes), so this houserule wouldn't really help them, but... what would be the point then? Making it that way only leaves room for abuse. Besides, I intended it to be something specifically for TWFers. That's why I think I'll keep it this way.

@ RobbyPants
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that a free weapon wouldn't be a problem because if you aren't TWFing it's useless to you?
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 07:21:36 AM »
@ Stratovarius
Hm. I see what you're saying. I guess, they way you worded it, it could work. I mean, two-handers (can) only use one weapon (unless you cheese it out with armor spikes), so this houserule wouldn't really help them, but... what would be the point then? Making it that way only leaves room for abuse. Besides, I intended it to be something specifically for TWFers. That's why I think I'll keep it this way.

I just don't see the abuse - it's letting TWFers (who are at a fairly heavy feat disadvantage already) compete on an even cost basis for weapons with THF, which is and always has been a superior method of combat. That feat problem is why I rebuilt the TWF feats yesterday, and stuffed tons of the feats that hung off the basic chain into the base line. If you're worried about a THF/Armour Spikes user abusing it, just specify that the benefits only apply if the character's primary weapon is one-handed.

This is what I'll be using going forward:

Weapons in Harmony
Prerequisites: Two Weapon Fighting
Benefit: When fighting with two weapons and with a one-handed weapon as your primary, if your primary weapon has a +1 or better enhancement bonus, you may treat your off-hand weapon as if it had a +1 enhancement bonus. As you improve your skills with two weapon fighting, you learn how to transfer more magical energy from your primary weapon to your off-hand weapon. If you have Improved Two Weapon Fighting and your primary weapon has a +2 or better enhancement bonus, you may treat your off-hand weapon as if it had a +2 enhancement bonus. If you have Greater Two Weapon Fighting and your primary weapon has a +4 or better enhancement bonus, you may treat your off-hand weapon as if it had a +4 enhancement bonus. If you have Improved Two Weapon Fighting and your primary weapon has one or more +1 weapon special abilities, you may treat your off-hand weapon as if it had a single one of those +1 weapon special abilities. If you have Greater Two Weapon Fighting and your primary weapon has one or more +1 or +2 weapon special abilities, you may treat your off-hand weapon as if it had up to two of those +1  or +2 weapon special abilities. If you have Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, you may treat your off-hand weapon as if its enhancement bonus and weapon special abilities are an exact copy of your primary weapon (unless such abilities are inapplicable). If there is more than one eligible weapon special ability, you may choose to alter the choices you have made as a move action.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 07:24:47 AM by Stratovarius »

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Magic weapons for TWFing
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 08:49:49 AM »
@ RobbyPants
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that a free weapon wouldn't be a problem because if you aren't TWFing it's useless to you?
Yes, if I understood you correctly. The idea is that the bonded weapon only works in pairs, right? So, you can't just give the other to your buddy or sell it at full price.

This approach is "balanced" in the sense if you don't worry about the number of magical weapons a person has, but you worry about their overall offensive output. The three general approaches people try are:
  • Few (relatively) weak attacks + a defense bonus
  • Many weak attacks
  • Few strong attacks
Obviously, those are never fully balanced, and people tend to regard sword and board as a suckers game. That being said, depending on the build, TWF and THF can be somewhat balanced against each other. Once you start throwing feats like Shock Trooper or abilities like Sneak Attack on to get your actual damage up, the minutia of whether or not you are holding one or two magical weapons in your hands somewhat falls by the wayside. Class features/feats scale in damage faster than the weapon bonuses do.

Similarly, without Shock Trooper/Sneak Attack, the benefit to having a second weapon dealing extra damage is offset by the investment in TWF feats you need and the -2 attack penalty to TWF in the first place. Honestly, TWF is pretty underpowered unless you seriously spec for it.
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