Author Topic: Illurien  (Read 18366 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Illurien
« on: December 02, 2011, 05:10:26 PM »
Illurien



HD:d8
LevelBabFortRefWillFeature
1+1+0+2+2Illurien body, Tempest Lash, Telepathy, +1 Int
2+2+0+3+3Living Mystery, Tempest Technique
3+3+1+3+3Droplet Shield, Fast Healing, +1 Int
4+4+1+4+4Watery Composition, Tempest Technique
5+5+1+4+4Walking is Bothersome, Arcane Sight, +1 Int
6+6+2+5+5Pointed Knowledge, Tempest Technique
7+7+2+5+5Cloud of Foresight , Uncanny Dodge, +1 Int
8+8+2+6+6Tempest Technique,  Knowledge Feed
9+9+3+6+6Plane Wander, Storm of Visions, +1 int
10+10+3+7+7Growth, Tempest Technique
11+11+3+7+7Analyze Dweomer, Cold Logic, +1 Int
12+12+4+8+8Hidden Library, Tempest Technique, +1 Int
13+13+4+8+8Rain Essence, Collector of Memories, +1 Int
14+14+4+9+9Tempest Technique, Blindsight, +1 Int
15+15+5+9+9Rejuvenation, Ancient Rain,+1 Int

Skills:8+int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level,  all skills are class Skills for the Illurien

Proficiencies: The Illurien is proficient with simple weapons, one martial weapon of its Choice and the Tempest Lash.


Features:

Illurien Body: The Illurien loses all other racial bonus and gains outsider traits (basicaly darkvision 60 foot). She's a medium sized outsider with a base speed of 30 feet. She doesn't need to breath but also cannot speak.

In adition she gains a bonus to natural armor equal to her Int modifier.

Tempest Lash: An Illurien attacks by lashing her foes with a knife-like weapon formed from the droplets that surround her. It counts as a normal dagger for all purposes, except it dissolves into water after a few seconds of leaving the Illurien's hands, after which the Illurien can instantly make a new one from her body (or was it the same one that somehow returned to her hands? None can tell). Thus it can perform iterative attacks (including iterative thrown attacks) and cannot be disarmed or sundered. It cannot be enchanted as a normal weapon, but it can be boosted by other Illurien abilities.

Anyone struck by the tempest lash must succeed on a DC 10+1/2 HD+Int mod Will save ot take 1d4 points of Intelligence damage, that is multiplied on a critical hit. At 8 HD this can affect even creatures normally immune to it, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves (except if they have an Int Score of -).

Telepathy: The Illurien has telepathy with a range of 40 feet plus 10 feet per HD.

Ability Score Increase: The Illurien gains +1 Int at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, for a total of +10 Int at 15th level.

Living Mystery: Nobody knows where Illuriens come from, or even if there's more than one Illurien, but either way she's clearly up to no good. At 2nd level the Illurien gains the [Evil] subtype and her attacks count as Evil and Magic for bypassing DR, plus resistance to Acid  and Electricity each equal to her HD.

Tempest Technique: Despite being a creature of knowledge, the Illurien seems to revel in close combat, and has actually developed an peculiar fighting style to take advantage of her own unique abilities. At 2nd level and every 2 other levels thereafter, picking one of the following options. Several of those mention your ranks in Knowledge, which correspond to the ranks in your highest Knowledge skill.  For every other maxed Knowledge skill you have, you can count your number of ranks as 1 higher for Tempest Technique purposes. Each can be used every 1d4 rounds, and they're all supernatural abilities.

(click to show/hide)

In addition, now Illurien levels grant full Initiator Level if she multiclasses to a martial class (or picks Martial Study).

Droplet Shield: At 3rd level the Illurien gains DR/good equal to ½ her HD and SR=11+HD. She may lower or raise her SR at any time as a free action.

Fast Healing: At 3rd level the Illurien gains fast healing equal to 1/3 her HD.

Watery Composition: At 4th level the Illurien becomes Immune to Disease and Poison.

Walking is Bothersome: At 5th level the Illurien becomes able to fly at twice her base Speed with perfect maneuverability.

Arcane Sight: At 5th level the Illurien is permanently under an Arcane Sight effect.

Pointed Knowledge: At 6th level the Illurien understands all languages, and she instantly knows facts about creatures she speaks to telepathically, such as their age, where they were born, and the important events of their life.

This also allows the Illurien, as an Immediate action, to add her Int mod to any single Save, attack roll, damage roll, ability check or skill check against any creature inside her telepathy range. The decision to use this ability must be made before the roll.

Cloud of Foresight: At 7th level drawing on her boundless lore, Illurien uses opponent's tendencies and desires against them. This causes her opponents to have a 20% miss chance that can't be overcome in any known way. Plus once per round, as an immediate action, the Illurien can impose a penalty equal to - (1+1 per 2 HD) on a single roll, check or saving throw made by an opponent whitin 60 feet.

Uncanny Dodge: At 7th level the Illurien gains Uncanny Dodge as the Barbarian ability. If she would gain Uncanny Dodge again from other class, she gains Improved Uncanny dodge instead.

Knowledge Feed: At 8th level The Illurien heals 5 HP for every point of Int damage her Tempest Lash deals.

Plane Wander: At 9th level the Illurien can use Plane Shift as a SLA 1/day per 8 HD, except she can enter inside extradimensional spaces and private dimensions as long as she somehow learns of them. Save DC is 10+1/2 HD+Int mod.

Storm of Visions: At 9th level the watery drops that surround Illurien are the collected fragments of the knowledge she has accumulated. As a swift action, enemies whitin 30 feet of her must succeed on a DC 10+1/2HD+Int mod Will save or be dazed for 1 round, as visions of xotic truths captivate their minds. This is a mind-affecting effect, and cannot be used more than 1/round.

At 10 HD even oponents immune to mindaffecting can be affected by this, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves.

At 13 HD this ability may be used as a free action.


Growth: At 10th level the Illurien grows one size category. On top of all other usual changes her Tempest Lash now deals 1d8+Str mod damage.

Analyze Dweomer: At 11th level the the Illurien can use Analyze Dweomer as a SLA 1/day per 3 HD. Save DC is 10+1/2 HD+Int mod.

Cold Logic: At 11th level, the Illurien may add her Int mod to an attack roll, a damage roll, an ability check and a save as a free action every round even if it isn't her turn. She must decide to use this ability before doing the respective roll, and each kind of action may only be freely boosted 1/round.

Hidden Library: At 12th level the Illurien has dreams of an extraplanar repository, hidden in some mysterious planar wilderness. From now on she may use Plane Shift to arrive precisely within the center of her Hidden Library, which is stashed with ancient tomes, scrolls and plenty of other reading material accumulated by an unknown hand. Those provide a +10 competence bonus to all knowledge checks made by the Illurien while inside it, but the tomes are mystically bound and cannot be removed from the Hidden Library. For every twelve new books the Illurien brings and binds to the Hidden Library, the competence bonus increases by 1, up to a total no bigger than the Illurien's HD (so at 12th level 24 books would maximize the bonus untill other level up).

The Hidden Library is filled with traps and guardians that make it immune to all divination effects and others teleporting in. The Illurien instinctively knows how to avoid the dangers and how to guide others in and out, but she would be wise to decide with who she shares her special place.


Rain Essence: At 13th level the Illurien becomes immune to electricity, polymorph effects against her will, sleep, paralysis and stunning, and her base speed increases by 10 feet.

Collector of Memories: At 13th level whenever the Illurien deals Int damage with her Tempest Lash, she can choose to steal 1 skill rank the victim had, which results in the victim forgetting a part of his memories related to the skill. This doesn't allow the Illurien to go over her normal skill ranks limits (she can still remove the skill rank and steal the memories anyway), and she cannot gain more extra skill points total with this ability than 10xHD. You automatically learn all the skills on which an enemy has ranks when you hit them with Tempest Lash.

Defeating the Illurien in a combat (or other kind of agreed challenge) allows one to recover their lost skill points and memories.


Blindsight: At 14th level the Illurien gains Blindsight with a range of 60 feet.

Rejuvenation: At 15th level, if killed, the Illurien reappears in her Secret Library two days later with full gear and no XP loss (her old body and gear automatically dissolve into normal water when she's killed). The one who killed her however starts geting dreams about the Hidden library. If not killed within 1 month, he'll be able to find a safe way into the Illurien's haven, both reaching it trough planar travel and evading the traps and guardians. If they die, they forget this info even if somehow brought back to life (or unlife), thinking it all a crazed dream.

Ancient Rain: The ultimate Tempest Technique, combining a myriad of different martial arts to deliver a devastating blow customized to the enemy.
1/day as a standard action make a basic attack with your Tempest Lash. If you hit you deal additional damage equal to 3 times a knowledge check from you (following the same knowledge rules of Tempest Technique) and your opponent must succeed on a save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Int mod (you pick what kind of save they make) or be rendered permanently dazed, stunned, paralyzed, dead, blinded, fatigued, disabled, exhausted or deafened (pick two). You may end any of those conditions other that dead as a move action while adjacent to the target. Even if your opponent saves, they still take Int damage from Tempest Lash (no save) and they're sickened, shaken and dazzled for 1 round.

Ancient Rain cannot be recovered by Punish the Ignorant.

New Feats
Expanded Tempest Tecnique [Racial]
Prerequisites: Illurien, Tempest Tecnique
Benefit:You learn one extra Tempest Tecnique you qualify for.
Special:You can gain this feat multiple times, each time learning a new Tempest Tecnique you qualify for.

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« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 05:50:00 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 12:08:59 AM »
Illurien of Myriad Glimpses


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« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:41:41 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 08:51:39 AM »
Tempest Lash: Its knife-like and deals damage like a dagger. Can it be thrown like one or is it somehow attached to Illurien?
Is counting as both a natural weapon and as a manufactured weapon, like fists? (mostly for the weapon rules and to know if it can be upgraded with items like the Amulet of Mighty Fists or get enchanted with Craft Weapon feats normally)
Good questions, I'll be making it count as a non-enchantable dagger. You can always pick Sacred Planar Lash to give it boosts.

Telepathy: I think the range is very short. Especially considering it is its method of communication.
Well, why would she want to communicate at big ranges anyway? The Illurien's a solo thief after all. :p

Tempest Technique: The maneuver-like approach is interesting. I'll admit that your Scholar's Plain History maneuvers made me think of Illurien. Had you considered making her a maneuver user?
Actualy I did, but basing it on warblade progression didn't feel right, swordsage and crusader aren't OGL, the scholar was kinda too focused on range and the Illurien still had a significant amount of other powerful abilities. In the end I ended up just making 14 tecniques instead of a making up a whole new martial school and a new recovery method.

Are they supernatural abilities or extraordinary ones? Putting the (Ex) and (Su) tags after the name of each ability would help determine that so DMs and Players know what stays and what drops within AMFs.
Fine, put in clause that all tempest tecniques are supernatural abilities.

Knowledge Corruption feels like an upgraded Knowledge Treason. Being able to get both seems a bit redundant.
It's however not a complete upgrade, because the treason will have a better chance against oponents immune to mindaffecting, and also saves you the trouble of making a Cha check to force a dominated person attack an ally.

Rain over the Land allows Illurien to turn a Tempest Tech into an area effect. Is working like an area effect or must she make attack rolls against every enemies within the radius? (Does it need LoE or is it working like a spread effect, is it attacking creature regardless of the creature being seen or Illurien even knowing it is there, etc?)
Clarified those.

What I feel is lacking is any fullattack maneuver-like ability (ei: Flashing Sun, Time Stands Still). Illurien has full BAB but is built to use mostly single attacks for its Tempest Techs.
Intended. Fullattack maneuvers are relatively rare, and this way you have to choose before unleashing a full attack or striking just once. Mind you the swift-action techs and Sacred Planar Lash have good sinergies with full attacks.

Some ability that removes memories, or otherwise actually removes knowledge from the enemy as a debuff, seems to be missing.
Improved Collector of Information so it explicitly steals memories/skill ranks from the target.

Pointed Knowledge: I think it is gained a bit early. Tongue itself is a 3rd level spell and learning so much is quite powerful.

Droplet Shield: Acquired a bit late. Maybe swapping it with Pointed Knowledge.
Sounds good, done.

Cold Logic: Just to make sure something was intended... Since it can apply to ability checks, and that Initiative is a dexterity check, Cold Logic thus grants Int modifier to Initiative.
I'll admit I didn't notice it right away, but Int to Iniative at 11th level doesn't sound too bad.

Hidden Library: Something unique about Illurien, is that she has two domains in the Outlands. The hidden Athenaeum Nefarious and the Shrouded Dispensary, which is located by the central spire. Illurien is one of the only creatures immune to the spire's anti-magic/supernatural effect. Now, Hidden Library is described as an extrapalanar repository, hidden in some mysterious planar wilderness. Is this saying that it is some kind of private plane?
Who knows? That's the point, it's a mysterious place and it's not very clear how you can get in or out from it. :P

(plus I wanted to make the Illurien non-depedant on any particular cosmology)

Collector of Information: Its a cool ability. When used to its fullest it pretty much grants a busy Illurien the ability to almost max around 1/5 of all relatively useful skills with this ability alone. If I'm reading this right, Illurien is not stealing the rank, just gaining it.
Changed to stealing now so there's also a "steal knowlede" ability. Also changed the name to Collector of Memories because it sounds better.

Rejuvenation: I find the wording a little confusing. Does it mean that people killing Illurien learns the Hidden Library's location after a year or only how to move within it and avoid the traps like she does? If the creature is killed then resurrected, does it keep that knowledge or must it kill Illurien again?
Just as I posted the class I had the suspicion that doubt may arrive but was too tired to clear it up. Should be clarified now. Also yes if the Illurien kills them they're suposed to forget even if ressurected (added). Also changed the time to 1 month since by then the campaign would probably be over or the Illurien at least have doubled in level.

Ancient Rain: The ability states that it is a Tempest Technique. Does that mean it can be combined with Rain over the Land?
Yes.

All in all: Marvelous work. I sweet take on one of my favorite monsters. Thank you.
You're welcome. :D

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 12:19:09 PM »
That clarified a lot, but gave birth to new questions.

Tempest Lash: Since it works like a dagger and can be thrown in combat, and that Tempest Techniques just need a hit, does that mean they can be initiated at range with a thrown Tempest Lash?

Rain Mirror: Does it take any action to activate?

Telepathy: Unless its in a party. Party members using long mid range spells/effects won't be able to communicate. I compared it to the telepathy range of other creatures with it and its about the shortest. The starting range is okay but its range increases per HD is very bad. IE: The original Illurien monster has a better telepathy range than Balors and Pit Fiends but it has been granted one much shorter than the telepathy given to devils and demons.

Collector of Memories: What happens when Illurien has maxed her stolen rank gains? Can she still, say, damage the Int of a creature to remove Knowledge (the planes) ranks to make it forget what an Illurien is, even though she cannot gain the removed ranks anymore?

About maneuver use, perhaps giving synergy to multiclass into martial classes could be good. Like make her levels count as their full initiator level for one martial class. Like the pseudo casting thing.

About (Su) and (Ex) tags, I meant that it might be a good idea to put them on every monster class abilities. (Sometimes it's obvious, but not always)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 01:39:38 PM »
Tempest Lash: Since it works like a dagger and can be thrown in combat, and that Tempest Techniques just need a hit, does that mean they can be initiated at range with a thrown Tempest Lash?
Yes to both.

Rain Mirror: Does it take any action to activate?
Immediate action, added.

Telepathy: Unless its in a party. Party members using long mid range spells/effects won't be able to communicate. I compared it to the telepathy range of other creatures with it and its about the shortest. The starting range is okay but its range increases per HD is very bad. IE: The original Illurien monster has a better telepathy range than Balors and Pit Fiends but it has been granted one much shorter than the telepathy given to devils and demons.
Fair enough, increased the speed at which it grows. Since she gains it right at first level, it'll pull ahead of all the infernals.

Collector of Memories: What happens when Illurien has maxed her stolen rank gains? Can she still, say, damage the Int of a creature to remove Knowledge (the planes) ranks to make it forget what an Illurien is, even though she cannot gain the removed ranks anymore?
Yes.

About maneuver use, perhaps giving synergy to multiclass into martial classes could be good. Like make her levels count as their full initiator level for one martial class. Like the pseudo casting thing.
Sounds good, added.

About (Su) and (Ex) tags, I meant that it might be a good idea to put them on every monster class abilities. (Sometimes it's obvious, but not always)
Here are you being funny again. I already explained that's something I don't do because D&D is quite crazy about what's extraordinary and what's supernatural (again, singing well is Su, shattering the magic around you by flexing your muscles is Ex, go figure). I'll let the players and DM decide about that, in particular when the only thing in the whole game that truly cares about that is AMF, and that's really a not very common effect.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 01:42:33 PM »

Tempest Lash: It requires a saving throw to avoid Int damage but does not specify which kind. (Most likely a Will save). Also, is the Tempest Lash "drawn" as free action or as a move action, like an actual dagger. Could Iaijutsu Focus skill checks even work with a Tempest Lash? (that could result in a nasty Gnome Quick-Razorish combo).

Illurien Body: Perhaps Int to AC should be more like a monk or a swordsage/scholar rather than a natural armor bonus. Fluent water over rock-hard water feels like a better fit for the kungfu theme.

Tempest Tecnique: Please fix the typos.  :-\
Since Ancient Rain is a Tempest Technique, it seems like it could be interpreted that Punish the Ignorant can also recover it.
Repository Orb; as written it allows an Illurian to cast True Strike as a swift action every 1d4 round, among other things. That sounds a bit heavy at HD8.

If you're fine with the PrC, I'll put it in my first post of this thread. Comments/Suggestions/Corrections welcomed, as always.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 04:11:46 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 10:36:16 AM »
Illurien of Myriad Glimpses:
-Clarify from which schools the IoMG can pick. Even if you intended for all of the "base" ones, homebrew Tob schools are extremely common out there (I myself did four so far after all)

Planar Pact- What's the actions to create the "lesser" portals? Can you replace old ones with news once you reach the cap? What's the limitations on picking the exit point?

Acorn of Harvest alert! Basically, when you say "allowing her to interact with its surroundings as if she was there". Does it mean she benefits from benefical planar effects from a plane of her choice?

What's the action to make the verbal pacts? It it valid if the enemy was mind controled/compulsed?

-Everything else looks fine and spiffy.

Quote
Tempest Lash: It requires a saving throw to avoid Int damage but does not specify which kind. (Most likely a Will save). Also, is the Tempest Lash "drawn" as free action or as a move action, like an actual dagger. Could Iaijutsu Focus skill checks even work with a Tempest Lash? (that could result in a nasty Gnome Quick-Razorish combo).
Drawn like an actual dagger, thus can be combined with Iaijutsu focus, but it won't count as a gnome razor.

Quote
Illurien Body: Perhaps Int to AC should be more like a monk or a swordsage/scholar rather than a natural armor bonus. Fluent water over rock-hard water feels like a better fit for the kungfu theme.
The original monster has nat armor, that stays (and still fits the kungfu theme of hardening one's body)

Quote
Tempest Tecnique: Please fix the typos.  :-\
Grammar isn't my strong point and I'm not exactly swimming in free time. By all means fix them yourself and I'll edit them in.

Quote
Since Ancient Rain is a Tempest Technique, it seems like it could be interpreted that Punish the Ignorant can also recover it.
You're right, clarified that it can't.

Quote
Repository Orb; as written it allows an Illurian to cast True Strike as a swift action every 1d4 round, among other things. That sounds a bit heavy at HD8.
I don't really believe so, in particular because the Illurien has plenty of other things to do with her swift actions, so she'll want a more lasting effect.

Quote
If you're fine with the PrC, I'll put it in my first post of this thread. Comments/Suggestions/Corrections welcomed, as always.
I like where it's going, but still needs some polishing.

Which reminds me, the joystealer still needs some polishing as well, need to find some time to properly check on that one.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 12:04:35 PM »
Quote
-Clarify from which schools the IoMG can pick. Even if you intended for all of the "base" ones, homebrew Tob schools are extremely common out there (I myself did four so far after all)
I worded it that way to include homebrew, but will be more clear.

Quote
Planar Pact- What's the actions to create the "lesser" portals? Can you replace old ones with news once you reach the cap? What's the limitations on picking the exit point?
8 hours. I tried to imply that both portal types were included by "any of these portals"

Quote
Basically, when you say "allowing her to interact with its surroundings as if she was there". Does it mean she benefits from benefical planar effects from a plane of her choice?
It is for the purpose of her Telepathy ability only. She can communicate telepathically with people around the gate and whatever else telepathy can do.

Quote
What's the action to make the verbal pacts? It it valid if the enemy was mind controled/compulsed?
Speech is a free action; so a free action. But mind control won't do. I'll put a clause on it.


I'll post a spoiler button with the corrections and delete it after you edit it in.
Gotta check back on the joystealer, coulda sworn I had finished it.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 11:14:47 PM »
(click to show/hide)
All that's left is replacing Tecnique by Technique in the table.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 11:19:45 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 06:31:30 AM »
Applied the corrections, and I can't see anything else wrong with your prc.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 05:18:03 AM »
I've seen the Illurien come up in the build section and after looking at it again there are a few things I've been wondering.

The requirements to get Tempest Techniques are based on HD rather than Illurien levels, so perhaps it would be a better idea to turn Ancient Rain into a normal Tempest Technique by removing the permanent effect and maybe the auto-int damage and adding another level 8 conversion and at least the level 9 strike.
Reasoning being that the Illurien rewards straying off its monster class by multiclassing into a martial class so it may well gain access to the higher level Tempest Techniques before it finishes the base monster class.
Even if it sticks with it and doesn't enter the PrC, it could still get the higher Tempest Techniques after meeting their HD requirement via the Expanded Tempest Tec(h)nique feat.

The HD 16 ones could be Ancient Rain and Glimpses of the Far Away Land (The Legend of the Far Away Land, doing the very same thing but maybe without imitating Tempest Technique buffs)
THe HD 18 one (if the stance isn't converted) could be Total Absorption/Total Collection/Total Extraction  (Total Purification). It would do the same but take a standard action instead of fullround action. Affect a single target within dagger range. It would pull the hit target to the new location and make it a comatose being at 0 Int as if the tempest lash fully drained it on a failed save or if slain by the technique instead of petrifying it.
If the stance is converted, the adaption on the mechanism could be that after leaving it all technique recovery, its own included, are maximized. So 4 rounds of cooldown instead of 1d4.

To get an idea of how the conversion would be done (a simpler process than I imagined), I compared all techniques to the maneuver they are based on to get a feel of how you made them.
Two felt like inferior versions of their maneuver counterpart.

Sacred Planar Lash: While it limits you to the upgrade of the tempest lash and doesn't let you change it's shape to another weapon, it doesn't let you use Boost and Counter-like techniques. What I find strange with the original maneuver though is that it is a stance that requires a standard action instead of the usual swift action (which would allow you to summon the weapon and actually use it in the same round).
It would actually be convenient to have it be swift because of the downtime it would create between the change in style. The Illurien has a high BAB and can make iterative attacks and can use it to get better attacks but to be able to make good fullattacks, it must waste a round's standard to get into 'fullattack mode', and then lose it as soon as it decides to use any other technique for any reason, and so needing to spend another round going back to 'fullattack' mode (and maybe not even get to use it if you need to use a counter technique before then). Also, if it ends upon using another technique, do you still get the benefit from the tempest lash's enhancement bonus to attack/damage on the hit of the technique that ends it?

Drown the Lost: It follows the same pattern as the others, being done as a standard action instead of a fullround action with dagger range instead of insane scaling range, but requires a hit as well as saves to get through. However, unlike the maneuver it does not offer an alternate use, the original's being a heal and curing of ailments.


Also, I was wondering if those Tempest Technique would count as Plain History maneuvers/stances for the purpose of meeting the requirements of the Plain History feats. They seem to fit the creature perfectly.
If a particular distinction must be done for what works as a stance, perhaps Sacred Planar Lash and Rain over the Land could work as stances like techs with stance durations that do not stack with stance maneuvers. The former enhancing tempest lash attacks and the later allowing techniques to have more than one 'point-blank' range target.

-----

On another topic, I've been thinking that perhaps it would be a good idea to make Pointed Knowledge optional people communicated by telepathy. I believe that it might get bothersome for the DM to give all those details to the player every time he has the character mindspeak something to a new npc, especially if he doesn't care to learn the stuff.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 04:30:21 PM »
I've seen the Illurien come up in the build section and after looking at it again there are a few things I've been wondering.

The requirements to get Tempest Techniques are based on HD rather than Illurien levels, so perhaps it would be a better idea to turn Ancient Rain into a normal Tempest Technique by removing the permanent effect and maybe the auto-int damage and adding another level 8 conversion and at least the level 9 strike.
Reasoning being that the Illurien rewards straying off its monster class by multiclassing into a martial class so it may well gain access to the higher level Tempest Techniques before it finishes the base monster class.
Even if it sticks with it and doesn't enter the PrC, it could still get the higher Tempest Techniques after meeting their HD requirement via the Expanded Tempest Tec(h)nique feat.

The HD 16 ones could be Ancient Rain and Glimpses of the Far Away Land (The Legend of the Far Away Land, doing the very same thing but maybe without imitating Tempest Technique buffs)
THe HD 18 one (if the stance isn't converted) could be Total Absorption/Total Collection/Total Extraction  (Total Purification). It would do the same but take a standard action instead of fullround action. Affect a single target within dagger range. It would pull the hit target to the new location and make it a comatose being at 0 Int as if the tempest lash fully drained it on a failed save or if slain by the technique instead of petrifying it.
If the stance is converted, the adaption on the mechanism could be that after leaving it all technique recovery, its own included, are maximized. So 4 rounds of cooldown instead of 1d4.
I'll consider that. Right now I find it somewhat strange to include options that cannot be taken whitin the normal monster advancment.

To get an idea of how the conversion would be done (a simpler process than I imagined), I compared all techniques to the maneuver they are based on to get a feel of how you made them.
Two felt like inferior versions of their maneuver counterpart.

Sacred Planar Lash: While it limits you to the upgrade of the tempest lash and doesn't let you change it's shape to another weapon, it doesn't let you use Boost and Counter-like techniques. What I find strange with the original maneuver though is that it is a stance that requires a standard action instead of the usual swift action (which would allow you to summon the weapon and actually use it in the same round).
It would actually be convenient to have it be swift because of the downtime it would create between the change in style. The Illurien has a high BAB and can make iterative attacks and can use it to get better attacks but to be able to make good fullattacks, it must waste a round's standard to get into 'fullattack mode', and then lose it as soon as it decides to use any other technique for any reason, and so needing to spend another round going back to 'fullattack' mode (and maybe not even get to use it if you need to use a counter technique before then). Also, if it ends upon using another technique, do you still get the benefit from the tempest lash's enhancement bonus to attack/damage on the hit of the technique that ends it?
Actually, that's a leftover from the original Sacred Treasure Sword. Lessened the restriction so that it only ends when you use standard action or higher tempest tecnique. Also that it still applies for that attack.

Drown the Lost: It follows the same pattern as the others, being done as a standard action instead of a fullround action with dagger range instead of insane scaling range, but requires a hit as well as saves to get through. However, unlike the maneuver it does not offer an alternate use, the original's being a heal and curing of ailments.
Healing isn't exactly the Illurien's style. Also since you're hiting them with the lash you're dealing basic lash damage.  But you're right it still seemed a tad weak so increased the duration of the status ailments to 2 rounds.

Also, I was wondering if those Tempest Technique would count as Plain History maneuvers/stances for the purpose of meeting the requirements of the Plain History feats. They seem to fit the creature perfectly.
If a particular distinction must be done for what works as a stance, perhaps Sacred Planar Lash and Rain over the Land could work as stances like techs with stance durations that do not stack with stance maneuvers. The former enhancing tempest lash attacks and the later allowing techniques to have more than one 'point-blank' range target.
Or simply just grab an actual Plain History stance with either feats or a dip in Scholar?

On another topic, I've been thinking that perhaps it would be a good idea to make Pointed Knowledge optional people communicated by telepathy. I believe that it might get bothersome for the DM to give all those details to the player every time he has the character mindspeak something to a new npc, especially if he doesn't care to learn the stuff.
It seems you misread it. Pointed Knowledge gives you facts. Not all facts.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2013, 10:26:03 PM »
Aye. If you do elect to complete the Tempest Techniques up to level 9, there might be a need to replace Ancient Rain for something else, if anything.
Perhaps an upgrade to an ability already in its kit or something new, like having her deal ability drain instead of damage. Maybe a passive bonus against enemies whom had their Int damaged by her.

Looking again, two more minor details caught my attention.

Rejuvenation states that the Illurien must slay those whom slayed her to remove their knowledge of how to find her, but if the monster class is taken by a PC within a party, odds are that she won't be the one inflicting the killing blow. Or enemies might suicide or die as part of some death throes to later maybe return to life with the knowledge intact. Perhaps requiring instead that they perish by Illurien's hand or while having at least some of their Int score damaged by her.

Upon gaining Growth, her Tempest Lash damage goes from 1d4 to 1d8. Seeing how it gets two size increases instead of one even though it is meant to behave as a dagger in every way, I wonder if the damage is supposed to be altered whenever the size changes. It seems that the damage jumps to 1d8 even if she choses not to grow since it gets a seperate note instead of just increasing as part of all the normal size increase effects.
Unless there was meant to be a rise to 1d6 first somewhere in between or to begin with.

Your fix on the planar lash should spell; "This effect demands your extreme concentration"


Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 07:27:45 PM »
Enemies now forget hidden library if they die in any way. So the Illurien can finish them trough a 3rd party or whatnot. More simple that way as well.

1d8 tempest lash is because that's what the original monster damage is. That's what the sacred planar lash damage becomes, regardless of actual size.

Extra tempest techniques will have to wait, since I'm seeing if I can finish some of my actual ToBhou school drafts this August (which reminds me Septette for the Dead still doesn't have finished feats). And keep updating campaigns when I can. And advancing the request list. And beach sessions tiring me out. :p

« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 07:30:32 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 10:38:34 PM »
Alrighty, and I agree.

For the tempest lash damage being 1d8, I know that's the damage of their stat block but it was featured as a dagger with natural weapon undertones in its inability to be permanently enchanted. I was mostly pointing it out because it jumps from 1d4 to 1d8 instead of progressing it in die size with 1d6 somewhere in the middle.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2013, 07:36:14 PM »
For Collector of Memories, does Illurien steal ranks on a 1-to-1 basis with points of int damage, or simply 1 rank each time she deals int damage, regardless of the damage? The way it's worded reads like the latter. It's quite potent so I suppose that even though it's likely to be a fairly slow process getting up to max stolen ranks, it'd still be difficult to make it up to 130 successful attacks at 13th level before maxing out or even gaining a level. Illurien would probably never conceivably gain max ranks that way, I think.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2013, 08:09:00 PM »
The idea is that if you want to maximize the extra skill ranks at high level, you go out there and whip some low level people, which won't be giving you any exp at all.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2013, 10:11:51 PM »
Gotcha, just wanted the clarification. It definitely makes sense, and Illurien is technically evil. Though at a high level, I'm not sure what useful information she could steal from a low-level mook that would improve her skill in something. Definitely good for shoring up more obscure skills, I'd imagine.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2013, 10:14:20 PM »
The idea is that if you want to maximize the extra skill ranks at high level, you go out there and whip some low level people, which won't be giving you any exp at all.

You seem to like making classes go around beating the crap out of nobodies. :lmao

Offline Anomander

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Re: Illurien
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2013, 11:35:30 PM »
It certainly makes the Illurien one of the monster PCs would hate the most. They come out of nowhere, permasteal you a rank or two and then vanish, forcing you to abandon your quest for a while to hunt them down and get your skill points back. Must be very annoying.