Author Topic: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]  (Read 11646 times)

Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class *WIP* [PEACH]
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2017, 10:16:33 AM »
Looking it over, it seems fairly good. It looks to be around where a Warblade would be, but with some better defensive abilities.
I appreciate your feedback, but I feel this isn't so good.
Isn't good in that the feedback is vague, or that being like a warblade isn't what you're targeting?

Feedback is kinda vague, I know it isn't too good in general, and according to some others it does have balance issues. But the "isn't so good" was targeted towards the class itself, not your comment.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2017, 10:33:13 AM »
Personally, I'd stick with just one resource mechanic. Since it's a martial adept, I'd have it use maneuvers and stances, as normal.

I'd forgo the mana resource, and have all of the dragon-themed abilities either be at-will and/or have them trigger by expending a maneuverer if they need to be limited. The one exception I might make is having a breath weapon be every 1d4 rounds, just because that's how they tend to work in 3E.

This suggestion comes not from a point of balance, but more of ease of playing at the table, as well as ease for people understanding what the class can really do.
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2017, 10:47:33 AM »
Personally, I'd stick with just one resource mechanic. Since it's a martial adept, I'd have it use maneuvers and stances, as normal.

I'd forgo the mana resource, and have all of the dragon-themed abilities either be at-will and/or have them trigger by expending a maneuverer if they need to be limited. The one exception I might make is having a breath weapon be every 1d4 rounds, just because that's how they tend to work in 3E.

This suggestion comes not from a point of balance, but more of ease of playing at the table, as well as ease for people understanding what the class can really do.

Fair point, I guess I was looking for scalable SLAs anyways. Any suggestions on costs? I guess I could just make the SLA themselves per day as normal, so I'd just have to figure out costs for the other abilities...

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2017, 05:21:33 PM »
Setting them to be 1/day each is probably more book-keeping than just tracking a mana cost.

I'd lean toward making the abilities ether always on, at-will, or used by expending a maneuver. If you don't like any of those options, you can always just leave it as mana.
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 09:14:37 AM »
Setting them to be 1/day each is probably more book-keeping than just tracking a mana cost.

I'd lean toward making the abilities ether always on, at-will, or used by expending a maneuver. If you don't like any of those options, you can always just leave it as mana.

It is? Guess I'll just do a combo of at will and maneuver cost. Should be up in a few hours.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2017, 12:37:12 PM »
Setting them to be 1/day each is probably more book-keeping than just tracking a mana cost.

It is?
It's just that tracking mana is a single number, but if you have ten different SLAs, you have ten different Y/N variables you have to keep track of. It's not the end of the world, or anything. The Crusader has their delayed damage pool and a per/day smite to keep track of in addition to their maneuvers.
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 01:45:53 PM »
Okay, base class changed. Working on feats. If it seems a bit much, I can remove the bonus feats.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2017, 09:24:21 AM »
Are all of the Prana Burst abilities at-will, now? If they take mana, I missed that.

What is the "area" of the AoE Prana Burst ability? You list the size, but not the shape. I'm assuming you're listing the size of the radius of an emanation burst, but I'm not sure.

I'm wondering if Font of Power would be easier to read as a sub-table in the entry.

Table: Font of Power
Class




Level
2468
4
1/day---
8
3/day1/day--
12
5/day3/day1/day-
16
at will5/day3/day1/day
20
at willat will5/day3/day


Anyway, looking at what's here, I'd say the class is stronger than a warblade in most ways, but not in a way that would be game-breaking (IMO).
  • You get 40% of the discipline access of the warblade, but you can pick any two schools. They're probably going to come from Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw, or White Raven, but they don't have to. This loss is not a big deal, given how good several of the disciplines are.
  • The move-action to recover a maneuver makes it relatively easy to do in battle. Granted, you can't make a strike or use a full-attack action, but you can still standard-action attack or use a spell (at 4th level and higher), which is probably just fine. Once you get to level 8, you have enough spells per day that you can probably be using a spell or maneuver every round of each fight.
  • Assuming Prana Burst is at will, its a solid boost to the class, but again, not one that breaks the game. Having strikes at range and AoE damage is a good way to help keep the class relevant outside of melee. Being able to strike someone from 20 feet away won't break the game, although it will make that throwing PrC from ToB cry. It's not like it's a strong PrC, anyway.
  • The SR and other defensive boosts aren't too bad, for the most part. SR will keep him fighting longer, but it certainly doesn't make him invincible.
  • The biggest thing that's going to determine how effective one member of this class is compared to another is the spells he selects with Font of Power. Taking Wraithstrike as a 2nd level power is going to be way better than Scorching Ray or something similar at high levels. Having the ability to take something like Glitterdust really gives this class a lot of versatility outside of hitting things.
If the power level you're targeting is "better than ToB, but not as strong as casters", it looks like you're right about there.
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2017, 10:48:46 AM »
Yea sorry, added that it is indeed a burst.

Yea I'll add that chart.

Hmm, perhaps I should remove the ability to cast spells the round you recover maneuvers, at least damaging ones.

Hopefully clarified Prana Burst being at will a bit.


Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2017, 11:01:17 AM »
Hmm, perhaps I should remove the ability to cast spells the round you recover maneuvers, at least damaging ones.
Honestly, damage-dealing spells tend to be the worst, unless you're abusing the crap out of metamagic feats (which is largely beyond this class). If I made one of these, I'd be gravitating toward Wraithstrike or Glitterdust, neither or which are damage-dealing.

It's up to you if you want people casting, or not when they recover a maneuver. There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer, here. If you only want people to be able to attack when recharging, you might want to reword how they recover maneuvers. One option is to change it to a standard action to recover, and add a caveat that they may make a single, melee attack as part of that action. I'd keep in the part about not using a maneuver the same round you recover it. It'd leave you open to making an attack to recover a boost and using it round after round.
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2017, 11:09:39 AM »
Hmm, perhaps I should remove the ability to cast spells the round you recover maneuvers, at least damaging ones.
Honestly, damage-dealing spells tend to be the worst, unless you're abusing the crap out of metamagic feats (which is largely beyond this class). If I made one of these, I'd be gravitating toward Wraithstrike or Glitterdust, neither or which are damage-dealing.

It's up to you if you want people casting, or not when they recover a maneuver. There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer, here. If you only want people to be able to attack when recharging, you might want to reword how they recover maneuvers. One option is to change it to a standard action to recover, and add a caveat that they may make a single, melee attack as part of that action. I'd keep in the part about not using a maneuver the same round you recover it. It'd leave you open to making an attack to recover a boost and using it round after round.

I think I'll just leave it as is as of now.

Thanks for the help.

Oh, what about Draconian Progress and the feats I have so far? My brain is telling me that it should perhaps come up earlier on the class chart. At first it was mostly a fill in, which is way it didn't come till later.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 11:14:40 AM by YuweaCurtis »

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2017, 01:25:57 PM »
Oh, what about Draconian Progress and the feats I have so far? My brain is telling me that it should perhaps come up earlier on the class chart. At first it was mostly a fill in, which is way it didn't come till later.
The only thing I see as a problem is the enhancement bonus granted by Blade's Breath. It gets way bigger than what a weapon would normally have. I'd change it to +1 for every two class levels, and note that the raw enhancement bonus (not spent on abilities) cannot exceed +5. It's still a faster progression than what you'd get just buying the weapon, but it keeps everything bound to the normal limits.

Also, how often can that feat be used? You list a duration, but not a number of uses per day (or whatever).
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2017, 02:07:27 PM »
Oh, what about Draconian Progress and the feats I have so far? My brain is telling me that it should perhaps come up earlier on the class chart. At first it was mostly a fill in, which is way it didn't come till later.
The only thing I see as a problem is the enhancement bonus granted by Blade's Breath. It gets way bigger than what a weapon would normally have. I'd change it to +1 for every two class levels, and note that the raw enhancement bonus (not spent on abilities) cannot exceed +5. It's still a faster progression than what you'd get just buying the weapon, but it keeps everything bound to the normal limits.

Also, how often can that feat be used? You list a duration, but not a number of uses per day (or whatever).

Oh yea, I miscalculated the total bonus thing for some reason, hence the 1 per level thing. I'm not sure how to say it, but the duration is 1 round per level, and those rounds can be used separately.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2017, 02:53:54 PM »
One round per level ever? Per day? Per level?

If you're level 8, does this mean you get 8 rounds to use this each day? Or 8 rounds until you get to level 9? When (if ever) does the 1 round/level refresh?
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2017, 02:58:51 PM »
One round per level ever? Per day? Per level?

If you're level 8, does this mean you get 8 rounds to use this each day? Or 8 rounds until you get to level 9? When (if ever) does the 1 round/level refresh?

Per day, guess that's what I'd put. And clarify that they don't have to be used together... Oh think I forgot time for activation. Give me a few minutes and that'll be corrected.

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2017, 03:39:02 PM »
That works.
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Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2017, 10:56:54 AM »
Eh clarified Primeval Force gives Dragonblood subtype at first.

Cut the rate climb of the SLA per day.

Added time to switch stance function. Added "no limited use enhancement" clause. It overwrites current weapon enhancements.

Hmm I just need to figure if i want to put more Draconian Progress and work on more feats.


Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2017, 02:40:36 PM »
So this is good then? Any more comments?

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2017, 04:40:04 PM »
Well, I think it's a bit of a shame the capstone is simply being able to use an 8th level spell twice a day. I'm a fan of the idea that taking a full 20 levels in a class should at least give you something unique as compared to dumping it earlier--I'm sure there's something else I could spend those last three levels on.

Quote
Possessing the soul of a dragon, it's only natural one would gain some magical ability. At 4 level they can pick a spell from the sorcerer list of 2 level or lower. As they gain levels, they become able to use it more times while learning other spell like abilities which also gain more uses. See the chart below for details.
They use IL in place of CL for these spells, and they cannot choose a spell with experience or expensive material costs. These spells count as prepared for the purposes of Reserve feats.

Aside from wording (I'd say that their CL is equivalent to their IL, shouldn't change much), I see this gives you four SLAs over the course of 16 levels. Okay, but can I change my decision at any point? Or am I permanently locked in to the SLA choice I made at level 4?

I think some proof-reading might be in order in general, though I'll need to find ToB again to check a few particulars.

Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: DragonSoul Initiator (Pendragon) 3.5 Base Class [PEACH]
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2017, 04:49:01 PM »
Edited it as you suggested, and yes they are permanent choices. Thanks for the input. I want to make sure this is usable over all and not just for the character I'm making it for.