Author Topic: Character Generation and Discussion  (Read 24163 times)

Offline Rekmond

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2017, 11:01:43 AM »
I agree with ketaro about that, although many things from the Races books are probably also non-exotic.


On a different topic, I'm usually against revealing major villain information before the Knowledge check, but a recent conversation has lead me to believe we might like to do some calibrating. I want to make sure I'm challenging you guys, not annihilating you.

In the course of this campaign, you're going to come up against many different types of threats, and though they were design to kill each other, they'll be pretty good at killing you, too. For instance, we can all rest assured that there's not much point in overbuilding followers up to level 3, because the odds they'll survive for any significant length of time are really, really low.

On the other side of it (and I wish I weren't spoiling him), there's a villain with a breath weapon that hits a large area and does anywhere from 21 to 189 fire damage. The save is pretty low for his CR, but even at his median damage, that might be enough to reenact a Logi on your character's bones. It's probably the most egregious example of army-leveling goonery... but is this something you can withstand, or should I re-calibrate some of these threats?

I'll try to get some of my build put together so I can answer this question. I assume it's a Reflex save?

Yes it is. Not something I wish to be on the wrong end of, understandably. Especially since I've got cold subtype...and fire REALLY hurts.
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Offline Chemus

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2017, 11:19:56 AM »
I agree with ketaro about that, although many things from the Races books are probably also non-exotic.


On a different topic, I'm usually against revealing major villain information before the Knowledge check, but a recent conversation has lead me to believe we might like to do some calibrating. I want to make sure I'm challenging you guys, not annihilating you.

In the course of this campaign, you're going to come up against many different types of threats, and though they were design to kill each other, they'll be pretty good at killing you, too. For instance, we can all rest assured that there's not much point in overbuilding followers up to level 3, because the odds they'll survive for any significant length of time are really, really low.

On the other side of it (and I wish I weren't spoiling him), there's a villain with a breath weapon that hits a large area and does anywhere from 21 to 189 fire damage. The save is pretty low for his CR, but even at his median damage, that might be enough to reenact a Logi on your character's bones. It's probably the most egregious example of army-leveling goonery... but is this something you can withstand, or should I re-calibrate some of these threats?

I'm hoping that my calculation of 21d8 is correct (as I calculated your number range to indicate, though 189/21=9, so I could be wrong), but MY PC, a 9HD undead (d12) only has 60 HP (64 if getting 6.5/level rather than 6). Even at average damage (105 from your numbers) my PC and non-mook cohorts and followers would all be just about dead even on a save (52.5 damage average on a save).

Now, my army has a bit of ranged damage potential, some of which is force damage, to a range of 150' (at -8 penalty to hit) for the force javelins (1d6+str) that some of my cohorts and followers have, and 250' for my apparently ignorable flying mookey warlocks (2-3d6, IIRC, EB 1-2d6+ Chas. Fell Power for +1d6). This potential means that I might lose some to him once, but perhaps focused fire will prevent a second loss. Depending on how many of my army survive. Or if my PC survives charging a 'dragon'.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:36:02 AM by Chemus »
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Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2017, 11:22:33 AM »
I agree with ketaro about that, although many things from the Races books are probably also non-exotic.


On a different topic, I'm usually against revealing major villain information before the Knowledge check, but a recent conversation has lead me to believe we might like to do some calibrating. I want to make sure I'm challenging you guys, not annihilating you.

In the course of this campaign, you're going to come up against many different types of threats, and though they were design to kill each other, they'll be pretty good at killing you, too. For instance, we can all rest assured that there's not much point in overbuilding followers up to level 3, because the odds they'll survive for any significant length of time are really, really low.

On the other side of it (and I wish I weren't spoiling him), there's a villain with a breath weapon that hits a large area and does anywhere from 21 to 189 fire damage. The save is pretty low for his CR, but even at his median damage, that might be enough to reenact a Logi on your character's bones. It's probably the most egregious example of army-leveling goonery... but is this something you can withstand, or should I re-calibrate some of these threats?

I'm hoping that my calculation of 21d8 is correct (as I calculated your number range to indicate, though 189/21=9, so I could be wrong), but MY PC, a 9HD undead (d12) only has 60 HP (64 if getting 6.5/level rather than 6). Even at average damage (105 from your numbers) my PC and non-mook cohorts and followers would all be just about dead even on a save (52.5 damage average on a save).

Now, my army has a lot of ranged damage potential, some of which is force damage, to a range of 150' (at -8 penalty to hit) for the force javelins that some of my cohorts and followers have, and 250' for my apparently ignorable flying mookey warlocks.

Pretty much this for my guys too. But if we got the drop, or the breath was aimed at mooks, we might win. But it would be pretty much instant death to everything it hit.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2017, 11:31:23 AM »
Hey Drammor, how does the Void Mind ability of Ahazu (Dungeon 148, pg 82) actually work? RAW, you spend a standard action in the morning after you bind Ahazu, and then, as long as you have it bound (i.e. for the rest of the day), you're immune to mind-affecting.
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Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2017, 11:51:13 AM »
Drammor: Gravetouched ghoul is LA2, so its not allowed, right?

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 11:54:53 AM »
Understandable math on the face-melter, but it's only effectively 21 dice. I'm just gonna yoke him down a little bit, though. Free up a feat for something less nuclear.

Hey Drammor, how does the Void Mind ability of Ahazu (Dungeon 148, pg 82) actually work? RAW, you spend a standard action in the morning after you bind Ahazu, and then, as long as you have it bound (i.e. for the rest of the day), you're immune to mind-affecting.

According to RAW, apparently. There are not a lot of possible interpretations for what's written there.

Drammor: Gravetouched ghoul is LA2, so its not allowed, right?

Correct.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2017, 12:28:02 PM »
Hey Drammor, how does the Void Mind ability of Ahazu (Dungeon 148, pg 82) actually work? RAW, you spend a standard action in the morning after you bind Ahazu, and then, as long as you have it bound (i.e. for the rest of the day), you're immune to mind-affecting.

According to RAW, apparently. There are not a lot of possible interpretations for what's written there.
Yeah that was my thought - I was giving you the opportunity to nerf it if you want, but hey I'm fine with it lol. It's a feat tax (I'd have to take Ignore Special Requirements unless we're going to be on the 73rd layer of the Abyss EVERY DAY) for immunity to mind-affecting. Welp.

Next question: how often can one use the Divination ability of Astaroth (Dragon 357, pg 68).

EDIT: Next next question. How does Otiax's Air Blast interact with actually wielding a weapon? Can I use it as an extra weapon? Does it count as wielding 2 weapons?

EDIT CONT'D: Does its damage change if you aren't Medium-sized? It seems to imply that the stats given are for Medium, since if you're Large, 10 feet away isn't a reach weapon. How does the "reach" part of it function if you're not Medium?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 12:40:29 PM by sirpercival »
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Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2017, 12:48:01 PM »
Necropolitan Githzerai(Binder 4) // Totemist 6 is a fine undead cohort for undead leadership, right?
(Using the githzerai racial class from complete psionic, which is effectively LA 2, but gives its abilities in dribs and drabs to prevent getting plane shift at level 3.)

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2017, 12:51:38 PM »
Hey Drammor, how does the Void Mind ability of Ahazu (Dungeon 148, pg 82) actually work? RAW, you spend a standard action in the morning after you bind Ahazu, and then, as long as you have it bound (i.e. for the rest of the day), you're immune to mind-affecting.

According to RAW, apparently. There are not a lot of possible interpretations for what's written there.
Yeah that was my thought - I was giving you the opportunity to nerf it if you want, but hey I'm fine with it lol. It's a feat tax (I'd have to take Ignore Special Requirements unless we're going to be on the 73rd layer of the Abyss EVERY DAY) for immunity to mind-affecting. Welp.

Next question: how often can one use the Divination ability of Astaroth (Dragon 357, pg 68).

EDIT: Next next question. How does Otiax's Air Blast interact with actually wielding a weapon? Can I use it as an extra weapon? Does it count as wielding 2 weapons?

EDIT CONT'D: Does its damage change if you aren't Medium-sized? It seems to imply that the stats given are for Medium, since if you're Large, 10 feet away isn't a reach weapon. How does the "reach" part of it function if you're not Medium?

1) Once per day. Twice per day at EBL 13, and three times per day at EBL 19.
2) What a sticky wicket. No, it doesn't count as wielding a weapon (or two), so you can use it as an extra weapon even if your hands are full.
3) Its damage doesn't change if you're more than Medium-sized, but its effective reach does.

Necropolitan Githzerai(Binder 4) // Totemist 6 is a fine undead cohort for undead leadership, right?
(Using the githzerai racial class from complete psionic, which is effectively LA 2, but gives its abilities in dribs and drabs to prevent getting plane shift at level 3.)

It's fine with me, but make sure your cohort picks up Undead Meldshaper, because it would be embarrassing if your totemist cohort couldn't shape soulmelds.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2017, 12:59:20 PM »

Necropolitan Githzerai(Binder 4) // Totemist 6 is a fine undead cohort for undead leadership, right?
(Using the githzerai racial class from complete psionic, which is effectively LA 2, but gives its abilities in dribs and drabs to prevent getting plane shift at level 3.)

It's fine with me, but make sure your cohort picks up Undead Meldshaper, because it would be embarrassing if your totemist cohort couldn't shape soulmelds.

Of course.  :) 

By the way, can my cohort/followers count as being made by their master for the purposes of undead mastery (+4 str and dex, +2hp/level on creatures made by dread necromancer 8 )

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2017, 01:03:59 PM »
OK cool. I think I'm going to stay away from Ahazu, it just feels like cheese to me. It's more optimal than Otiax (esp. w/ the 45-foot blindsight), but I think Otiax will be more fun. :D
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Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2017, 01:08:13 PM »
Of course.  :) 

By the way, can my cohort/followers count as being made by their master for the purposes of undead mastery (+4 str and dex, +2hp/level on creatures made by dread necromancer 8 )

Sure, that's what I did.

[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2017, 01:14:19 PM »
UGH MORE QUESTIONS. I just realized I've been operating under two assumptions:
1. Feats gained via vestiges can be used to meet prereqs ( <~~ why Otiax vs Ahazu matters, since I'd be sticking w/ the same 2 vestiges at all times)
2. Retraining is allowed.

Are both of those ok? How does #2 work?

The specific things I was planning on were (a) retraining my Weapon Focus to Bastard Sword (whose proficiency I get from binding Kas), and (b) retraining a feat into Trained Opportunist (since I'm planning on getting Combat Reflexes from Otiax).

Thoughts?
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Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2017, 01:23:21 PM »
Feats gained via vestiges can be used to meet prereqs, although any time the vestige isn't bound, you don't have the feat, as normal.

Retraining is allowed in general.

However, as a corollary, you cannot retrain a feat being given to you by a vestige, because the knowledge isn't yours.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2017, 01:26:52 PM »
Feats gained via vestiges can be used to meet prereqs, although any time the vestige isn't bound, you don't have the feat, as normal.

Retraining is allowed in general.

However, as a corollary, you cannot retrain a feat being given to you by a vestige, because the knowledge isn't yours.
Right, that shouldn't be a problem. I want both of my vestige feats :D
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Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2017, 01:41:37 PM »
By the way, you meant Clever Opportunist, right?
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2017, 01:50:00 PM »
By the way, you meant Clever Opportunist, right?
Trained Opportunist is a Bladecraft feat. Gives you extra AoOs equal to your Bladecraft ranks, which you can only use for Blade Techniques.
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Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2017, 02:16:16 PM »
Trained Opportunist and Combat Reflexes? That's hilarious. All you need now is a way to move between AoOs and you could practically fight an army all by yourself!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2017, 02:33:56 PM »
Trained Opportunist and Combat Reflexes? That's hilarious. All you need now is a way to move between AoOs and you could practically fight an army all by yourself!
Opportunistic Tactician, Dragon #340 pg 87. Take a free 5-foot step after making an AoO.

Combine with Improved Combat Reflexes (same source) to make 2 AoOs every time you get to make an AoO. (If I had BAB +11, I could also include Greater Combat Reflexes to get a 3rd AoO each time.)

I'm not taking Opportunist Tactician, though. It requires Dodge and Mobility, which suck.

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Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2017, 02:40:06 PM »
I see you've thought this through. Bravo.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.