Author Topic: PF Bard Countersong Conundrum  (Read 1457 times)

Offline zook1shoe

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4930
  • Feeling the Bern
    • View Profile
PF Bard Countersong Conundrum
« on: July 26, 2019, 02:03:20 AM »
Earlier tonight, we had a heated debate on how a Bard's countersong actually works. There seems to be 2 different stages, and the 2nd is fairly clear cut. It was the initial part that caused the discussion.

Quote from: Core Rulebook v6 Lite
Countersong (Su): At 1st level, a bard learns to counter magic effects that depend on sound (but not spells that have verbal components). Each round of the countersong he makes a Perform (keyboard, percussion, wind, string, or sing) skill check. Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself ) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard’s Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a noninstantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the bard’s Perform skill check result for the save. Countersong does not work on effects that don’t allow saves. Countersong relies on audible components.

Person 1: Believes that the effect is similar to a reroll.
Where, you use the better roll, regardless of a natural 1 (on either die, since a natural 1 doesn't auto-fail a skill check). Referenced the Fortune Hex, despite not having the same language.

Person 2: Believes that the effect is not a reroll.
You roll the die and add your bonuses. Use the final result as your total or the Perform total. But the die roll does matter when it involves a natural 1, since that is an auto-fail regardless of the total. This is because the ability mentions using the result, not the Perform die roll.

________

What are your opinions on how it works, and why you think so.
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
- All Spells
- playground

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1661
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Re: PF Bard Countersong Conundrum
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 04:16:50 AM »
This to me isn't a reroll.  It's like using Diamond Mind Concentration maneuvers instead of saves.

Offline Power

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 687
  • Rolling a boulder up a hill
    • View Profile
Re: PF Bard Countersong Conundrum
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2019, 01:41:36 AM »
This is not a reroll, but it still doesn't apply natural 1s. If you use the Perform check, you are clearly not using the saving throw at all (because the entire saving throw is being replaced), so a natural 1 from your saving throw would not matter.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 01:44:41 AM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4930
  • Feeling the Bern
    • View Profile
Re: PF Bard Countersong Conundrum
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2019, 01:52:27 AM »
Thx
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
- All Spells
- playground