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Creative Corner => New Mechanics and Subsystems => Homebrew and House Rules (D&D) => Oslecamo's Improved Monster Classes => Topic started by: oslecamo on March 27, 2013, 07:35:27 PM

Title: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on March 27, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
Titanic Creature
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_136.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/oslecamo/Extras/Ultralisk_by_Mr__Jack_zps908a7533.jpg~original)

Prerequisites:
-Must be a creature that eats a LOT.

HD:d12
Level Bab Fort Ref Will Feature
1+0 + 2+0+0Titanic Body, Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
2+1 +3+0+0Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
3+2 +3+1+1Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
4+3 +4+1+1Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
5+3 +4+1+1Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
6+4 +5+2+2Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
7+5 +5+2+2Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
8+6 +6+2+2Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
9+6 +6+3+3Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
10+7+6+3+3Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
11+8+7+3+3Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
12+9+7+4+4Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
13+9+8+4+4Size Matters,  Bigger is Better, +1 Str, +1 Con
Skills:2+int modifier per level, x4 if taken at first level.
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Diplomacy, Jump, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Profession (any),Perform (any), Swim, Survival.

Proficiencies:A Titanic creature gains no new Proficiencies

Features:
Titanic Body: If the Titanic creature was smaller than medium, it grows to medium sized. It also gains a bonus to Nat armor equal to its Con bonus. If it already had an equal or better Nat armor, increase it by 1 instead.


Bigger is Better: At each level of Titanic creature, it can pick one of the following options. You can only pick each once unless noticed otherwise
(click to show/hide)

Ability Score Increase: The Titanic Creature gains +1 Str and +1 Con at each level, for a total of +13 Str and +13 Con at  13th level.

Size Matters: Starting at 2nd, the Titanic Creature picks one of the following options at each level. Unless otherwise noticed, each can only be picked one time and used once every 1d4 rounds, as the titanic creature recover its balance. Alternatively pick another from Bigger is Better.

(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 27, 2013, 07:40:21 PM
ECL 33 Titanic Tarrasque. :D
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Draconas on March 28, 2013, 05:17:18 AM
Here are a few ideas for Bigger is Better and Size Matters

Bigger is Better
Big Picture- The Titanic Creature’s sense organs adapt to their larger size, and the larger amount of data they receive. This grants you a bonus on either spot checks, listen checks, or search checks equal to the number of size categories over medium you are. Can be chosen up to three times, each time for a different skill.

Just a Scratch- This one could be one of two, depending on how you look at it.
Either
Due to wounds being proportionally smaller, you gain fast healing equal to the number of times you have taken Growth.
Or
Due to wounds being proportionally smaller, any damage you would take from an attack is reduced by (either a fraction of HD or a flat number) for every size category you are larger than the opponent. This does not apply to attacks that target an area, although it does apply to ones that can have multiple targets without affecting an area such as chain lightning.
(This one basically represents the fact that due to increased size, things that would have been grievous injuries are much smaller on your body, but they might also therefore heal much faster)

Slow metabolism- You only need half as much food and water as a creature of your size normally would.
(Actually, does it say anywhere what the food requirements are for each size? The only thing I could find was that small characters need half as much food and water as medium characters.)

Size Matters
Vacuum- lets you pull creatures toward you if they fail a strength check. Possibly usable as a move, swift, or free action so you can draw creatures toward you and hit them in the same round
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Threadnaught on March 28, 2013, 02:08:16 PM
The original template was also pretty dull, basically just bigger numbers and a trample attack. Time for list of abilities!
Two of them actually, one for passive stuff, another for active special attacks. I sought to add iconic abilities one expects from big badass monsters. May add some more if I get the inspiration or someone offers interesting ideas.

Yeah, my favourite is the Moving Terrain, reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus and a class someone called ErrantX was working on over at Giantitp, well some of my suggested abilities for the class. I just enjoy the whole Discworld concept of a massive creature with life on it's back.

Quote
Original template suposedly was just to vermins and animals, but screw that, I got those custom “bigger than colossal“ rules, may as well use them.

What, you mean +1 to Natural Armour per size increase?

ECL 33 Titanic Tarrasque. :D

With Monster of Legend, 35HD, flight and a fort on it's back. :plotting

Ooh, here's a truly ridiculous sized creature, Xixecal, Mega Huge size. Earth is Mega Gargantuan.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 28, 2013, 02:36:23 PM
Monster Hybrid Tarrasque/Monster Of Legend/Titanic Creature/Xixecal. Rearrange Tarrasque or Xixecal.

How big is the sun? :P
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on March 28, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
Here are a few ideas for Bigger is Better and Size Matters

Bigger is Better
Big Picture- The Titanic Creature’s sense organs adapt to their larger size, and the larger amount of data they receive. This grants you a bonus on either spot checks, listen checks, or search checks equal to the number of size categories over medium you are. Can be chosen up to three times, each time for a different skill.

Just a Scratch- This one could be one of two, depending on how you look at it.
Either
Due to wounds being proportionally smaller, you gain fast healing equal to the number of times you have taken Growth.
Or
Due to wounds being proportionally smaller, any damage you would take from an attack is reduced by (either a fraction of HD or a flat number) for every size category you are larger than the opponent. This does not apply to attacks that target an area, although it does apply to ones that can have multiple targets without affecting an area such as chain lightning.
(This one basically represents the fact that due to increased size, things that would have been grievous injuries are much smaller on your body, but they might also therefore heal much faster)

Slow metabolism- You only need half as much food and water as a creature of your size normally would.
(Actually, does it say anywhere what the food requirements are for each size? The only thing I could find was that small characters need half as much food and water as medium characters.)

Size Matters
Vacuum- lets you pull creatures toward you if they fail a strength check. Possibly usable as a move, swift, or free action so you can draw creatures toward you and hit them in the same round

All great ideas, added them with a few tweaks of my own! What do you think?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Threadnaught on March 28, 2013, 05:43:32 PM
Vacuum-As a swift or move action you produce either a cone with 5 feet per HD (doubled for each size category you're bigger than medium). Creatures and objects smaller than you inside the cone must suceed on a Str check against you (taking a -1 penalty for each size category they're smaller than you), or be pulled towards you 10 feet for each point they failed the check, until reaching a square adjacent to you. This movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

You mention a cone and describe the effects of a cone, but there's no option for a line. Is there supposed to be an option for a 10 foot line per HD, or is the "either" something you forgot to delete when editing?


Also the second pic, is that Samus, or something from Warhammer?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Draconas on March 28, 2013, 05:44:12 PM
All great ideas, added them with a few tweaks of my own! What do you think?
They're great! Certainly improved over what I put down. :clap
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on March 28, 2013, 06:12:27 PM
Nice!

Vacuum is just suposed to be a cone, fixed the leftover typo.

The second pic is an ultralisk facing a terran marine. You can check one in glorious action here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BlQ2tMQzg80#t=64s).
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Threadnaught on March 28, 2013, 06:47:02 PM
Hi, me again. I just had a glance at it to make sure there wasn't anything left over and the action to activate Vacuum is.

Vacuum-As a swift or move action

I'll never get a job as a proof reader. :(

Love watching StarCraft. Probably too complex to play.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: VennDygrem on March 28, 2013, 06:50:40 PM
This is a fantastic addition to Awakened Monstrous Crab in addition to Monster of Legend and in place of Paragon. :D
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: DavidWL on March 29, 2013, 02:15:26 AM
Thank - full of awesome.

Quote
Improved Area Attack-Double the width, length and height of your area attacks and increase any of their DCs by 1. You can pick this multiple times, it stacks, but no more times than you picked Growth.

Raw Power- Hit Point damage from a special attack other than poison or trample increases one die step and any save DCs increase by 1. You can pick this multiple times (for example, if you had a breath weapon that dealt 1d6 per HD, it now deals 1d8 per HD, and if you picked it another time it would deal 2d6 per HD). You cannot pick this more times than you picked the Growth option.

Either individually can have impressive results.

Doubling area (which is a real-world item) 4 times --> *16 in each dimension.  an attack that targets 1 square becomes an attack that targets a 16 square radius ... pretty boss. 

And the damage you deal from a number of natural attacks increase with size anyway, so this stacking would allow massive damage with natural attacks.

While there isn't an obvious way of combining them, I'm sure it is out there.

Then I asked myself - is an area effect melee attack which is a save or die so bad at levels in the low teens and frankly, I think this is all ok.

Quote
Moving Terrain-

Very cool.

Quote
Shrug it Off-If you sucessfully save against any area effect that didn't fully cover your area, you don't suffer any ill effects. Single-target effects always count as smaller size than you. If you would suffer an ill effect from a creature smaller than you whitout save, you can attempt a normal Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD of the attacker+Attacker's highest stat mod to fully resist it.

A Wow-cool ability.  Sort of like mettle+evasion.  Great flavor.  A little strong - perhaps make it 2 picks total?

Quote
Right Under Your Nose

Lol!  Awesome.

Quote
Big Picture

This is a little weak ... the bonuses are ~+4 at 20th level to a few skills and + 20' to range?  Perhaps beef this up?

Quote
Size Matters: Starting at 2nd, the Titanic Creature picks one of the following options at each level. Unless otherwise noticed, each can only be picked one time and used once every 1d4 rounds, as the titanic creature recover its balance. Alternatively pick another from Bigger is Better.

I think the bigger is better picks are ... well ... better :).  I suspect if it were me, I'd focus on a more limited offense (1 or 2 ways of effective offense) and great defense.


Best,
David
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on March 29, 2013, 02:45:55 AM
Thank - full of awesome.

Quote
Improved Area Attack-Double the width, length and height of your area attacks and increase any of their DCs by 1. You can pick this multiple times, it stacks, but no more times than you picked Growth.

Doubling area (which is a real-world item) 4 times --> *16 in each dimension.  an attack that targets 1 square becomes an attack that targets a 16 square radius ... pretty boss.

That's probably why the ability specifies that you double the "width length and height" of the area rather than saying "double the area." An attack that hits one square has a width and length of 5ft. Doubled, that's 10ft. 
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on March 29, 2013, 04:06:21 AM
Vacuum: Good thing this is Dnd because I have tried drawing a penny towards me with air inhalation alone and can't manage it. Can more easily blow it away though.

Right Under Your Nose
Very weird ability. High level medium monsters could ironically just take a dip in Titanic for the sole purpose of getting a one ability bundle deal to instantly become a ninja. Getting into Titanic not to get bigger and better at being bigger, but only to become a ninja. Very weird.

Moving Terrain
Depending on the size difference of those on the creature (Ie; a huge creature walking on a gargantuan creature platform comparent to a small creature on the same platform being), it might be a good idea to have them roll Ride checks when the creature is moving or fighting without caring for the well-seatedness of his passengers to avoid the violent motions throwing them off-board. Can still actively try to shake hem off, but its more logical that way. I mean, it shouldn't be that easy to stay on it when the platform creature is, say, tumbling.

Crash
Wouldn't range increment doubling be more appropriate by making it in relation to how much bigger you are than the thrown creature? Throwing a rat far is easier than throwing a cow.

Body Slam
Might want to put a size requirement on this one. Medium creature gets a 5ft area attack.
We get the idea but for clarity you might want to specify that you roll attack once against the Ac of those within the space of the attack instead of just having your attack become an area effect. Mostly because area effects usually do not require attack rolls and there is no saving throw indicated for half or negated damage.
Also perhaps the area of effect should be two size category smaller than the creature, since the fist of a medium sized creature is considered tiny sized, with maybe taking it again allowing for one size smaller than you instead.

All the same, very neat template you just made - especially considering how unexciting the original is.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on March 29, 2013, 08:19:58 AM
Hi, me again. I just had a glance at it to make sure there wasn't anything left over and the action to activate Vacuum is.

Vacuum-As a swift or move action

I'll never get a job as a proof reader. :(
It is suposed to be activeable as either move or swift action.

Love watching StarCraft. Probably too complex to play.
I'll admit that ladder is pretty cutthroat, however the campaign is pretty nice (customize your army weee), and then there's the arcade where there's hundreds of player-made mods for all tastes.

Thank - full of awesome.
Yet still didn't get a single +1 respect. :P

And the damage you deal from a number of natural attacks increase with size anyway, so this stacking would allow massive damage with natural attacks.
Raw Power only applies to special attacks, which doesn't include natural weapons.

Quote
Shrug it Off-If you sucessfully save against any area effect that didn't fully cover your area, you don't suffer any ill effects. Single-target effects always count as smaller size than you. If you would suffer an ill effect from a creature smaller than you whitout save, you can attempt a normal Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD of the attacker+Attacker's highest stat mod to fully resist it.

A Wow-cool ability.  Sort of like mettle+evasion.  Great flavor.  A little strong - perhaps make it 2 picks total?
Done.

Quote
Big Picture

This is a little weak ... the bonuses are ~+4 at 20th level to a few skills and + 20' to range?  Perhaps beef this up?
Big Picture now adds Spot and Listen as class skills and allows you to use Con instead of Wis for them.

Quote
Size Matters: Starting at 2nd, the Titanic Creature picks one of the following options at each level. Unless otherwise noticed, each can only be picked one time and used once every 1d4 rounds, as the titanic creature recover its balance. Alternatively pick another from Bigger is Better.

I think the bigger is better picks are ... well ... better :).  I suspect if it were me, I'd focus on a more limited offense (1 or 2 ways of effective offense) and great defense.
I would say that's up to the player. If you want to load up on passives and just get 1-2 tricks you can, but the class still offers the option of gaining combat variety every level except first for those who want more variety.

Vacuum: Good thing this is Dnd because I have drawing a penny towards me with air inhalation alone. Can more easily blow it away though.
Added option to push things away from you with vacuum.

Right Under Your Nose
Very weird ability. High level of medium monsters could ironically just take a dip in Titanic for the sole purpose of getting a one ability bundle deal to instantly become a ninja. Getting into Titanic not to get bigger and better at being bigger, but only to become a ninja. Very weird.
Good point, added prerequisite of having to pick Growth at least once to pick Right Under Your Nose.

Moving Terrain
Depending on the size different of those on the creature (Ie; a huge creature walking on a gargantuan creature platform comparent to a small creature on the same platform being), it might be a good idea to have them roll Ride checks when the creature is moving or fighting without caring for the well-seatedness of his passengers to avoid the violent motions throwing them off-board. Can still actively try to shake hem off, but its more logical that way. I mean, it shouldn't be that easy to stay on it when the platform creature is, say, tumbling.
I'll admit that makes sense, but I also feel like that will add just another layer of complication for too little gain. The whole point of that ability is making the titanic creature a viable mobile plataform for fortresses/cities/armies, so forcing ride checks from everyone inside whenever combat starts will just bog down the game if you ask me.

Crash
Wouldn't range increment doubling be more appropriate by making it in relation to how much bigger you are than the thrown creature? Throwing a rat far is easier than throwing a cow.
Done.

Body Slam
Might want to put a size requirement on this one. Medium creature gets a 5ft area attack.
We get the idea but for clarity you might want to specify that you roll attack once against the Ac of those within the space of the attack instead of just having your attack become an area effect. Mostly because area effects usually do not require attack rolls and there is no saving throw indicated for half or negated damage.
Also perhaps the area of effect should be two size category smaller than the creature, since the fist of a medium sized creature is considered tiny sized, with maybe taking it again allowing for one size smaller than you instead.
It is suposed to combo with other single target attacks as well, tried to clarify as best as possible. Also changed the area of effect to be two size category smaller than the creature.

In other note, This Isn't Even My Final Form now grants some stacking combat buffs as well when you transform in battle, as long as you don't repeat a previous shape.

All the same, very neat template you just made - especially considering how unexciting he original is.
Thanks! I've grown to quite enjoy the challenge of picking up those dull templates and coming up with abilities to fill them in. :D
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on March 29, 2013, 02:26:57 PM
Moving Terrain
Well, it isn't that much of a complication considering there are rules for handling armies quickly.
Otherwise I think there is a reason airliners don't do barrel rolls.
If the titanic creature is a dumb giant turtle with an island on its back, it can be trained to move gently at all times for the sake of its passengers.
It feels a little more fair that way considering that, like a mount, it grants free move actions to everyone on it.

Right Under Your Nose
Maybe it should just work against smaller creatures. As in the classical 'so big you don't notice it'.
I don't mind the mindblank while hiding but I don't think it is quite the effect you had in mind. Maybe just make it undetectable by divination spell and effects.
It otherwise leads to strange situations where the creature under an heroism effect loses the benefits while hiding as part of movement. Or activating it to temporarily to cancel a mindaffecting effect since the act of hiding technically doesn't need an action by itself and isn't dependent on a success. You can hide under a cardboard box while jumping around, playing a trumped and swinging a flail at enemies and declare you're hiding, just with huge penalties.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 29, 2013, 02:29:36 PM
Moving Terrain
Well, it isn't that much of a complication considering there are rules for handling armies quickly.
Otherwise I think there is a reason airliners don't do barrel rolls.
If the titanic creature is a dumb giant turtle with an island on its back, it can be trained to move gently at all times for the sake of its passengers.
It feels a little more fair that way considering that, like a mount, it grants free move actions to everyone on it.

In the case of doing a barrel roll: I think it's fairly easy to rule that people fall out or end up in horrible positions in that sort of situation. :p
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on March 29, 2013, 02:57:43 PM
Moving Terrain
Well, it isn't that much of a complication considering there are rules for handling armies quickly.
Otherwise I think there is a reason airliners don't do barrel rolls.
There's also a reason most modern people don't willingly go to dangerous warzones in order to attempt to gain fame and fortune by fighting in the frontlines. Or we don't just walk into fires (pfft, just 1d6 damage?)

Alas, in D&D a regular griffon mount can do barrel rolls and spins and whatnot, and the ride DC will be exactly the same as if it was flying in a straight line at minimum speed.

If the titanic creature is a dumb giant turtle with an island on its back, it can be trained to move gently at all times for the
sake of its passengers.
Upon which someone will come complaining how it would make more sense for the giant turtle to have a random chance to go bersek based on damage taken/weather/time of the year, adding yet more layers of complication, and... Why do you hate mounts so much? Why do you want to make it completely inpratical to ride a giant beast into battle? :(

It feels a little more fair that way considering that, like a mount, it grants free move actions to everyone on it.
Yes, that's kinda the purpose of the ability. You know, to have an actual mechanic benefit, since you didn't pick one of the other options that helps you stay alive or helps you hit harder.

Right Under Your Nose
Maybe it should just work against smaller creatures. As in the classical 'so big you don't notice it'.
I don't mind the mindblank while hiding but I don't think it is quite the effect you had in mind. Maybe just make it undetectable by divination spell and effects.
It otherwise leads to strange situations where the creature under an heroism effect loses the benefits while hiding as part of movement. Or activating it to temporarily to cancel a mindaffecting effect since the act of hiding technically doesn't need an action by itself and isn't dependent on a success. You can hide under a cardboard box while jumping around, playing a trumped and swinging a flail at enemies and declare you're hiding, just with huge penalties.
You can't hide while being observed whitout some special ability.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 30, 2013, 11:20:49 PM
Holy crap this is awesome. Can't wait to see the mobile fortress monstrous crab in the Heroes Reborn game take this.  :lmao
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 30, 2013, 11:39:23 PM
And then the Brain in a Jar can build his mobile fortress with ease after all!

Hmm... I wonder if you can turn the back of a moving creature into a god's personal domain thingy if it starts counting as scenery. :lmao
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on March 30, 2013, 11:45:53 PM
Hmm... I wonder if you can turn the back of a moving creature into a god's personal domain thingy if it starts counting as scenery. :lmao

What would happen if a god took a level of this class and designated itself as its own godly realm?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 30, 2013, 11:50:26 PM
Divide by Zero when it gets that 'regenerate at your Godly Realm in 1d10 days' ability?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on March 31, 2013, 02:50:31 AM
Quote
Shockwave- You scream loudly or clap your limbs or just stomp the ground, but either way the effect is the same. As a standard action you produce either a cone with 5 feet per HD or a line with 10 feet per HD (doubled for each size category you're bigger than medium). Creatures and objects in the area take 1d6 sonic damage per HD and are left deafened for 1d12 rounds. A sucessful Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod halves this damage and negates being knocked down and deafened. Creatures take a -1 penalty on their save for each size category they're smaller than you, and a +1 bonus for each size category they're bigger than you. You can pick this up to three times, the second you can use this as a move action, the third you can use it as a swift action.

Being knocked down is mentioned in the successful save section but not in the previous section that describes the effects of the attack.

Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on March 31, 2013, 04:14:24 PM
Hmm... I wonder if you can turn the back of a moving creature into a god's personal domain thingy if it starts counting as scenery. :lmao

What would happen if a god took a level of this class and designated itself as its own godly realm?
You need to spend a week in an area to make it your godly realm, but since you can't stand over yourself, you cannot design your back as your godly realm.


Quote
Shockwave- You scream loudly or clap your limbs or just stomp the ground, but either way the effect is the same. As a standard action you produce either a cone with 5 feet per HD or a line with 10 feet per HD (doubled for each size category you're bigger than medium). Creatures and objects in the area take 1d6 sonic damage per HD and are left deafened for 1d12 rounds. A sucessful Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod halves this damage and negates being knocked down and deafened. Creatures take a -1 penalty on their save for each size category they're smaller than you, and a +1 bonus for each size category they're bigger than you. You can pick this up to three times, the second you can use this as a move action, the third you can use it as a swift action.

Being knocked down is mentioned in the successful save section but not in the previous section that describes the effects of the attack.


Leftover from an earlier edition, is just suposed to deafen.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ariasderros on March 31, 2013, 05:03:08 PM
Thank - full of awesome.
Yet still didn't get a single +1 respect. :P

Given.

Seriously, this does make about 7 things I am currently working on that use your classes much more streamlined and overall easier.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 01, 2013, 09:05:04 AM
Hmm... I wonder if you can turn the back of a moving creature into a god's personal domain thingy if it starts counting as scenery. :lmao

What would happen if a god took a level of this class and designated itself as its own godly realm?
You need to spend a week in an area to make it your godly realm, but since you can't stand over yourself, you cannot design your back as your godly realm.

Dvati/Tarrasque Hybrid with Deceptively Innocent Form?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 01, 2013, 09:16:26 AM
I think all of you has to be in the realm for it to count. Otherwise that'd be an amusing idea. Alter Size salient divine ability would serve in place of DIF.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 01, 2013, 09:22:57 AM
Well, if you designate your entire body as your Godly Realm, then you're entirely inside it by default, and if you pull that off, you can be on top of yourself as well. :D
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on April 02, 2013, 11:27:43 AM
Only your back can count as terran for puting effects on it, not your whole body.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 02, 2013, 11:30:40 AM
Lie on your back?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: zook1shoe on April 03, 2013, 12:40:23 AM
Subjective gravity of Acheron?

I think it should be a Balance check to stay on one vs. A Ride/Handle Animal check.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on April 04, 2013, 07:49:47 AM
Put in clause against you being your own personal terrain to prevent more sillyness.

Added possibility of using Balance/Ride to stay on top of the Titanic Creature instead of the reflex save.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 04, 2013, 08:03:25 AM
Quote
altough it can do so for other creatures)

So we need two of them to make a mobile godfortress? Got it. :D
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ariasderros on May 24, 2013, 05:10:34 PM
(These questions are not for Veres)

For "Raw Power"does this affect all of your abilities, like "Improved Area Attack", or does it only augment one ability?
If it only augments one, can you later change what ability it augments, or is it a "choose at time taken" type?

For all of the BiB options that state "You can pick this multiple times, it stacks, but no more times than you picked Growth", can you still take it once, even if you haven't taken "Growth" yet?

Crazy question: Can you still choose "I don't want to grow!" when choosing "Growth" from BiB?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 05:28:50 PM
For "Raw Power"does this affect all of your abilities, like "Improved Area Attack", or does it only augment one ability?
If it only augments one, can you later change what ability it augments, or is it a "choose at time taken" type?
Only one, picked when taken.

For all of the BiB options that state "You can pick this multiple times, it stacks, but no more times than you picked Growth", can you still take it once, even if you haven't taken "Growth" yet?
You need to have taken Growth at least once to start picking those up.

Crazy question: Can you still choose "I don't want to grow!" when choosing "Growth" from BiB?
You could, but then you don't gain the Growth ability at all, and it thus wouldn't count towards unlocking the titanic abilities that need it.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 25, 2013, 04:46:02 PM
Hm, looking at this again has drawn it to my attention that taking, say, five levels of this at level 16-20 is better than taking it at all from level 2-14. In the first case, you get to grow up to Colossal+, whilst you'd only get to Gargantuan in the second case. Or an extra few levels in the first one to pick up some of the other abilities.

I'm not sure if it's good, bad, or neither that the class is vastly more useful the later you take it, but there we are. @_@
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on May 25, 2013, 05:11:36 PM
It's a good sign if you ask me. Power grows considerably with level in D&D, so a level gained at 15th should be worth more than one level gained at 5. One of the nicer things about ToB classes.

Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 25, 2013, 05:17:29 PM
What is a bit depressing is the inability to get into beyond-colossal with something labelled Titanic Creature until the border of Epic. :(

... though this is possibly just a side effect of wanting to have a swarm of Colossal+ hellwasps or something. @_@

Hm, question: if Growth from this (or other monster classes) is applied to a creature with the swarm template, does the creature or the swarm increase in size? I think it's the swarm in the case of the actual class, but otherwise...
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 25, 2013, 05:19:35 PM
I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 25, 2013, 05:22:26 PM
I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.

But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ariasderros on May 25, 2013, 07:15:40 PM
You are also only looking at choosing Growth at every chance. There are a lot of other options. If you wait until the last minute for it, that means you aren't able to take as much else. Some of those options are pretty good.

Also, since you can take BiB options as Size Matters, you can even wait until later than 16. But, again, you are missing out on other features and choices that are quite comparable to whatever else you'd be getting.

Lastly, you are also saying that you got up to that power level without that size and other features. If you are wanting the size, it means that it would benefit you, and you haven't had it. Why wait for that power, when having it now can make it more likely to survive the battles that gain you your levels?

Also, you'd need to be playing at levels that this would be relevant.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 25, 2013, 07:17:50 PM
Well, if you're only going to fit into 20 levels, the best option to milk this is probably 7 something 13 this.

... that's an annoying number, really.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on May 26, 2013, 10:33:16 AM
Hm, question: if Growth from this (or other monster classes) is applied to a creature with the swarm template, does the creature or the swarm increase in size? I think it's the swarm in the case of the actual class, but otherwise...
That creature type is specifically limited to creatures of a certain size by definition (diminutive-tiny). There's no such thing as a swarm of colossal anything, just as there aren't spellcasters whitout caster level.

More in particular, this prc only applies to a single creature, and a swarm is a group of creatures.

I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.

But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.

15th level characters can fall from orbit to take a swim in a lake of lava. They clearly have much better body structure than 5th level ones.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 27, 2013, 05:42:38 PM
I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.
But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.

15th level characters can fall from orbit to take a swim in a lake of lava. They clearly have much better body structure than 5th level ones.

Also, a 15th lv human who takes 5 levels of Titanic Creature may grow faster than a 1st lv human who takes 15 levels, but they'll still cap out at gargantuan by lv 20, so a Titanic Giant is still bigger than a Titanic Human.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 27, 2013, 05:48:58 PM
I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.
But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.

15th level characters can fall from orbit to take a swim in a lake of lava. They clearly have much better body structure than 5th level ones.

Also, a 15th lv human who takes 5 levels of Titanic Creature may grow faster than a 1st lv human who takes 15 levels, but they'll still cap out at gargantuan by lv 20, so a Titanic Giant is still bigger than a Titanic Human.

Large, Huge, Gargantuan, Colossal, Colossal+.  Why would they cap at Gargantuan? :huh
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 27, 2013, 06:07:09 PM
I misread this post:

Hm, looking at this again has drawn it to my attention that taking, say, five levels of this at level 16-20 is better than taking it at all from level 2-14. In the first case, you get to grow up to Colossal+, whilst you'd only get to Gargantuan in the second case. Or an extra few levels in the first one to pick up some of the other abilities.

I'm not sure if it's good, bad, or neither that the class is vastly more useful the later you take it, but there we are. @_@

I thought you'd done the math and worked out that a medium creature could only get to gargantuan by 20 HD.

However, it seems you were actually comparing a 14 HD creature to a 20 HD creature.

EDIT: I now see what your issue was. It is a bit odd but not worth nerfing the class over. Instead, maybe Titanic Creature could be put on the list for the Extra Option feat (or given a similar feat of its own)? That way, filling out the class early won't lock you out of further growth.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on June 03, 2013, 01:13:49 PM
Or... you could just take Titanic levels when your HD allows you to pick Growth again. You don't have to take them in succession.
This template can easily be used to reach Colossal+ early if the base creature has some growth of its own. Especially if it applies more than one growth just by reaching higher HD once you get that class ability.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 03, 2013, 01:19:29 PM
It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.

We just need to come up with even more options.

Also, Titanic Monstrous Spider. I think that's Colossal+++++ by level 20. That's one big spider.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Threadnaught on June 03, 2013, 03:08:49 PM
Also, Titanic Monstrous Spider. I think that's Colossal+++++ by level 20. That's one big spider.

Won't work.

In order to get the full 13 Growths made possible by this PrC, you'd have to have 52HD. Since 13x4=52.
So you'd also need another 39HD from other sources.


Incidentally, for a creature to grow from Medium to Mega Gargantuan (that's Planet size) on Osle's guidelines. 92HD.
Atuin anyone?  :lol


Actually I forgot about the other 12 Growths made possible by Size Matters. 100HD total with an end size of Mega Titanic.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 03, 2013, 03:12:42 PM
Also, Titanic Monstrous Spider. I think that's Colossal+++++ by level 20. That's one big spider.

Won't work.

In order to get the full 13 Growths made possible by this PrC, you'd have to have 52HD. Since 13x4=52.
So you'd also need another 39HD from other sources.

Um... that's not 13 Growths, that's the basic spider Growths + the Growths this class enables by 20HD. @_@
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on June 03, 2013, 03:25:28 PM
She's right.

M Spider grows to colossal over 11 levels. Give it 5 titanic levels over HD 20 and it does reaches colossal +x5

If you want to spice it up, (there may be a better option, but this one is hilarious) give it Monster Blooded + Hybrid and give it the 3 Flail Snail levels before you get your first M Spider growth.
Maybe by starting as a flail snail and then getting monstrous spider levels.

Anyway. Doom spider. Colossal + x8
Flail Snail 3 / Monstrous Spider 11 / Titanic 5
Last level could be anything. Say, Pseudonatural Creature for more WTF.


Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 03, 2013, 03:34:31 PM
Last level could be anything. Say, Pseudonatural Creature for more WTF.

Nah, make it a level of Worg. Then you're a wolf spider. :D
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on June 04, 2013, 02:56:50 AM
Or, if it becomes an Extra Option feat choice, one or two Titanic level(s) could be traded for...
One level of Death Knight, Skeleton, Vampire or Zombie followed by one level (or two) of Swarm-Shifter.

Ridiculously huge undead spider made of gillions of mini undead spiders.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on June 04, 2013, 07:42:09 AM
It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.
It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 04, 2013, 07:43:25 AM
It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.
It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.


Not even with a clause like saint, requiring you to have X levels of Titanic Creature first?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Draconas on June 04, 2013, 08:11:07 AM
For the elementals that can change sizes, if they pick growth can they be any size category down to small if they pick growth?
And a cool Prc that could be based off of this and require construct/undead/elemental would be the ability to turn into a living city.
I'd do it myself, but I can never stay on one project for long enough, although I do have some ideas for class features typed up if you want to look at it, like having workshops and markets inside you, or the ability to build housing and charge rent.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on June 07, 2013, 07:31:28 PM
It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.
It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.


Not even with a clause like saint, requiring you to have X levels of Titanic Creature first?
Hmm... Ok, put it in with the condition you need to have taken 13 levels of Titanic creature.

For the elementals that can change sizes, if they pick growth can they be any size category down to small if they pick growth?
Yes.

And a cool Prc that could be based off of this and require construct/undead/elemental would be the ability to turn into a living city.
I'd do it myself, but I can never stay on one project for long enough, although I do have some ideas for class features typed up if you want to look at it, like having workshops and markets inside you, or the ability to build housing and charge rent.
I would be definetely in hearing more about that, even if it's just drafts. :p
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: DavidWL on June 07, 2013, 11:57:17 PM
And a cool Prc that could be based off of this and require construct/undead/elemental would be the ability to turn into a living city.

Yes.  Very cool!

You might even be able to spawn your own adventurers ... :p
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Draconas on June 10, 2013, 09:38:13 PM
I've got a picture for each type that can select it, the castle is Rook from Demigods and the other two are city mechs from Dragonmech, which is a 3rd party D&D supplement involving mechs and evil moon stuff.
I also got the idea from Dragonmech. And don't worry about changing it a lot, I don't mind.

(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/b/b9/Demigod_Rook.png)
(http://www.goodman-games.com/images/MM10Sharlorn.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0a4mAv8IyYE/TplyyyknYsI/AAAAAAAACJg/LlWuQBEl9nU/s1600/mech%2B4.jpg)

"living" city- requires you to be  Colossal+ and undead, construct, or elemental
Can let people live inside, has x amount of space for sufficient housing for medium creatures, with it increasing by x each size increment above Colossal+(was going to use city mechs in dragonmech, but you can do whatever). Housing for a larger size class costs twice the previous in space(for instance, housing for a large creature costs 2 space instead of 1). Does not start out with comfortable housing.  Can change internal structure with meditation over the course of 24 hours, but cannot heal damage. Can communicate with people inside and vice versa but not very quickly. After has lost 1/3 health, people inside will start to take damage. Starts with one of below options and can gain more over course of class.

market- gets money based on amount of people not in party inside you from percentage payed by shopkeepers(probably smaller amount then housing), can sell items for higher amount as well as buy things for lower prices due to innate knowledge of market since it's inside you and you can observe it

Housing- Housing that forms inside is now comfortable enough that people will buy if you charge rent. Selling is inadvisable due to legal implications of selling bits of your body, up to GM how high rent can go before people start leaving or don't rent.

battlements- ranged attacks can be fired by inhabitants, and range of attack by inhabitants is doubled, and then increased by original range again each size above Colossal+

communications- allows inhabitants to use aid another action on living city for mental skills as well as just plain communicate with character and other inhabitants as if right next to each other.

craft- can give up space worth one creature of a particular size to create a same-sized workshop with masterwork tools for one craft skill and any similar ones (example is woodworking and bowcrafting or weapon and armor making). Tools cannot be removed from workshop and workshop does not come with raw materials or fuel for forges/ovens/etc. Can reverse process to regain space.

Servitors- ability to make 1 unseen servant per unit of space and control them or grant control of them to people.

Troops- can make and maintain 1 human skeleton for every 3 space, but skeletons type and subtype is same as living city and immunities, resistances, and DR type(but not amount) are changed to living cities' as well.(probably some better way to do this)

Siege weapons-

Slaughterhouse- allows one to butcher and sell killed beings made of flesh or of the plant subtype at a rate of ? gp for medium creatures, with each size category above medium selling for double the next smallest and each size category below selling for half the next largest. Dragons sell for double the price, aberrations sell for 1/2 the price, and undead and constructs made of flesh sell for 1/4 the price.

menagerie- allows one use space to store living(includes animate undead and constructs) non-sapient creatures, and sell them at any time for x gp per hd. Certain creatures may be higher or lower at DM's discretion.

prison- prison for sapient creatures and interrogation. Uses space food each prisoner.

cooperative casting chamber- check dragonmech for cooperative/combined casting feat, all casters in this chamber can use it.(didn't check before lost interest)

Weapon of the people- allows you to have a ranged or melee weapon you wield gain a +1 enhancement bonus per x HD of people inside you(assume the average person has 1 HD unless stated otherwise). Enhancement bonus can be also be spent on these enchantments(constructs get ones involving animating, spells, and that only affect the weapon; undead get ones involving negative/positive energy, negative levels, fear, and life/death; and elementals get ones involving planes, elements, and acid/electricity/sonic/fire/cold)

Upsize- you grow one size category. You may choose this option more then once

Exradimensional Structure- Changing size has no effect on the amount of space you have. In addition, people inside you can no longer be damaged if you are.

Bulwark- you are no longer damaged by environmental conditions, and the people inside you are not affected either. Environmental conditions includes temperature, weather, wind, and natural meteors.(The natural meteors because that's what the city mechs in Dragonmech are supposed to protect from)

Pathfinder
all
+1
Conserving
Distance
Allying
Bane
Benevolent
Courageous
Cunning
Defending
Distance
Furious
Guardian
Huntsman
Jurist
Keen
Ki focus
Limning
Lucky
Menacing
Merciful
Mighty cleaving
Mimetic
Neutralizing
Reliable
Valiant
+2
Advancing
Anarchic
Axiomatic
Designating, lesser
Furyborn
Holy
Ki intensifying
Stalking
Unholy
+3
Lucky, greater
Reliable, greater
Repositioning
Speed
+4
Brilliant energy
Designating, greater
Nimble shot

undead
+1
Conductive
Cruel
Deadly
Ghost touch
Grayflame
Heartseeker
Ominous
Vicious
+2
Defiant
Disruption
Glorious
Invigorating
Lifesurge
Wounding
+5
Vorpal

construct
+1
Adaptive
Called
Conserving
Countering
Dispelling
Glamered
Impervious
Throwing
Spell storing
Returning
Seeking
+2
Anchoring
Endless Ammunition
Impact
Negating
+3
Nullifying
Spellstealing
Transformative
+4
dancing
Second Chance

elemental
+1
Corrosive
Flaming
Frost
Grounding
Quenching
Shock
Thawing
Thundering
Planar
Phase locking
Seaborne
Shocking burst
+2
Corrosive burst
Dispelling burst
Flaming burst
Icy burst
Igniting
+3

D&D 3.5


Also gains spell-like ability usable 1/day per HD at start/end(don't know which to pick) of class depending on type. Has caster level equal to HD
Construct- can cast animate objects, but ability has a range of long instead of medium, and can animate 4 objects per caster level

Elemental- can create 5 5-foot cubes per HD of elemental matter within a range of long. Blocks must be touching either the ground or another block, although they can be held up from any side(this means you can make ceilings, not just walls and floors). Elemental matter has the hardness of stone, and a different ability depending on your elemental subtype.
Air- You may designate any number of creature who can pass through the matter freely, as well as attack and see through it. You can change who is allowed at will.
Fire-?(not sure, only things I can think of is cause damage, but that would invalidate structures; or produce illumination, but that wouldn't be as good as the rest)
Water- You can spend a standard action to move any number of blocks 5 feet.
Earth- Has hardness and hit point per inch of adamantine.

Undead- can cast animate undead, but ability has a range of long instead of touch


This thing is mainly supposed to be a support class, although that doesn't mean you can't carry an army with you to do battle. It just doesn't really help you attack directly.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: DavidWL on June 14, 2013, 01:52:30 AM
Could a swarm shifter take Titantic Ceature?  How would that work?

Thanks,
David
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: zook1shoe on June 14, 2013, 03:58:04 AM
How would this work w a hengeyokai's animal form? Would the sparrow form jump from fine to medium+ , since its a class feature to become that size.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on June 14, 2013, 11:29:47 AM
Answering both questions at once, if you have some special ability that turns you into another creature with a fixed size independent of your usual size, titanic creature growths don't carry over to said other form.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 05:36:45 PM
That is a little problematic as the ability to change form into another shape with a fixed size comes from a race with a fixed size as well, yet titanic increases it.
Which form is the 'real' one that increases when they are all technically the real one? You chose which?
Also, if, say, a Dragon with Deceivingly Innocent Form at 1st level becomes Titanic and grows can it increase the DIF instead of the dragon form?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
That is a little problematic as the ability to change form into another shape with a fixed size comes from a race with a fixed size as well, yet titanic increases it.
Which form is the 'real' one that increases when they are all technically the real one? You chose which?
Also, if, say, a Dragon with Deceivingly Innocent Form at 1st level becomes Titanic and grows can it increase the DIF instead of the dragon form?


... why would you want  to increase the size of DIF? You can use the class to grab Monster Lord at no Feat cost. :huh
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on June 14, 2013, 06:33:55 PM
That is a little problematic as the ability to change form into another shape with a fixed size comes from a race with a fixed size as well, yet titanic increases it.
Which form is the 'real' one that increases when they are all technically the real one? You chose which?

Your "real" form is the one first described in your race rules.

And yes, it kinda defeats the purpose of DIF if you start making it grow.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 08:09:49 PM
Not really.
If your normal race is very small and you want to keep that smaller size form and also have a bigger one. Progressing DIF allows for bigger size potential than starting with the Small and smaller race.
Works even if your normal race is a medium or a long creature. Your DIF is a (tall) one. One might prefer to have a larger humanoid type creature than whatever form the normal race is. Especially one limited in appendages. Say, a brain in a jar.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on June 14, 2013, 08:23:58 PM
The feat isn't called Deceivingly Innocent Form for nothing. It was created to allow monster players an easy way of geting a form that doesn't get too much attention in humanoid areas. Not to try to stack size modifications.

Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 08:28:43 PM
And for maintaining size bonuses, there's Monster Lord.

Now, if you're a Brain in a Jar, you naturally want to be huge. You'll get a Mindflayer cult following you.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 31, 2014, 09:04:31 PM
Quote
Trample-  As a standard action, The Titanic Creature can move up to its speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The Titanic Creature merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the Titanic Creature’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the Titanic Creature moves over all the squares it occupies.

Just noticed a distinct lack of damage dice.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on April 01, 2014, 01:33:17 PM
Ups, fixed. :blush
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 01, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
Ups, fixed. :blush

Also is it meant to be possible to up the size for Collapse/Tremor/Shockwave to ~5 miles by level 20? :lmao
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on April 03, 2014, 11:59:19 AM
Sure!
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 03, 2014, 12:04:39 PM
I was wondering because I statted up something that could level a city if they got a little tetchy. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13066.0) :lmao
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 28, 2014, 07:34:20 PM
Quote
Catch Insect-You ignore cover and concealment from smaller opponents  for purposes of being able to make attacks of opportunity against them, and you can make an extra number of Aoos per round equal to your Con mod.

You appear to be able to attack things you can't see through rather large walls.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ketaro on October 29, 2014, 12:06:20 AM
Well, to be technical, cover & concealment ARE different from Total Cover & Total Concealment. They're two (rather 4) separate conditions if I remember correctly.

The cover & concealment pages in the SRD have separate sections just for explaining their Total versions because of that.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: TC X0 Lt 0X on October 29, 2014, 07:51:42 AM
Might be best to just specify partial cover/concelament though.
Altho piercing Total Concealment miss chance would probably be fine, the issue is more ignoring walls.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 29, 2014, 09:37:55 AM
Quote
Send Flying-As a free action when you hit a melee attack (even if it isn't your turn), the target must make a reflex save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Str mod, taking a -1 penalty on the save for each size category they're smaller than you, or a +1 bonus for each size category they're bigger than you. If they fail, they're pushed 5 feet per point of failed save in a straight line in a direction of your choice away from you other than down and then knocked prone. If they hit an object or another creature that would block its movement, they both take 1d6 bludgeoding damage for each 10 feet it still had to move. You can pick this up to four times, each  extra time reducing the “cooldown” by 1 and gaining +1 to opportunity attack rolls, to a minimum of zero rounds cooldown. This movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Mentions reducing a cooldown, does not list a cooldown.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Rakoa on October 29, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
Quote
Send Flying-As a free action when you hit a melee attack (even if it isn't your turn), the target must make a reflex save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Str mod, taking a -1 penalty on the save for each size category they're smaller than you, or a +1 bonus for each size category they're bigger than you. If they fail, they're pushed 5 feet per point of failed save in a straight line in a direction of your choice away from you other than down and then knocked prone. If they hit an object or another creature that would block its movement, they both take 1d6 bludgeoding damage for each 10 feet it still had to move. You can pick this up to four times, each  extra time reducing the “cooldown” by 1 and gaining +1 to opportunity attack rolls, to a minimum of zero rounds cooldown. This movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Mentions reducing a cooldown, does not list a cooldown.

Quote
Size Matters: Starting at 2nd, the Titanic Creature picks one of the following options at each level. Unless otherwise noticed, each can only be picked one time and used once every 1d4 rounds, as the titanic creature recover its balance. Alternatively pick another from Bigger is Better.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 29, 2014, 12:03:51 PM
Oh yeah, forgot that.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ketaro on October 29, 2014, 12:05:22 PM
Might be best to just specify partial cover/concelament though.
Altho piercing Total Concealment miss chance would probably be fine, the issue is more ignoring walls.

Giant creatures bust through walls in feats of dramatic destruction all the time to get the hero on the other side!
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: TC X0 Lt 0X on November 01, 2014, 09:13:30 AM
Might be best to just specify partial cover/concelament though.
Altho piercing Total Concealment miss chance would probably be fine, the issue is more ignoring walls.

Giant creatures bust through walls in feats of dramatic destruction all the time to get the hero on the other side!

Well they do.
Id probably prefer some kind of check to break through a wall based on it's hardness.
Afterall only the toughest creatures should be busting through 5ft walls of adamantine or similar.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on November 02, 2014, 06:54:45 PM
Can't think of a way to implement it that wouldn't be either absurd or clunky (wanna make an aoo? Roll Str check, let me check the hardness, wait there's multiple walls in between and one is made of magic force...)

For now updated to ignore cover less than total and all concealment for Aoo purposes.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 02, 2014, 07:20:06 PM
I'd possibly add an exception for stuff like 'medieval house walls'. You know, dried shit and reeds for wattle and daub stuff. In general, some sorta dirt over wood at its thickest. XD
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: TC X0 Lt 0X on November 05, 2014, 09:04:40 AM
For the Just a scratch ability, do you also apply any growth from other monster classes, or only once from the Bigger is Better class feature?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on November 07, 2014, 12:04:41 PM
Added clause to Catch Insect to ignore total cover granted by stuff you could break in a natural 1 (in which case it is destroyed).

And any mentions to "how many times you picked growth" refer to BiB picks only.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Psysama on January 05, 2015, 03:08:31 AM
I am sorry, call me dumb, but whenever Growth is selected, does that have the same effect as a size increase (+str, -dex, +con, etc)?  Sorry, I must have rolled a 1 on my knowledge check (doh!).
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on January 05, 2015, 07:53:27 AM
I am sorry, call me dumb, but whenever Growth is selected, does that have the same effect as a size increase (+str, -dex, +con, etc)?  Sorry, I must have rolled a 1 on my knowledge check (doh!).

No. That's somewhere in one of the stickies.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: VennDygrem on January 05, 2015, 09:40:51 AM
Specifically, in the post titled "Introduction and FAQ- Read This First! (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=269.0)"
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Psysama on January 05, 2015, 09:06:25 PM
Thank you very much, and sorry for the trouble!
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: jojolagger on April 16, 2015, 10:02:30 PM
It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.
It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.
Not even with a clause like saint, requiring you to have X levels of Titanic Creature first?
Hmm... Ok, put it in with the condition you need to have taken 13 levels of Titanic creature.
I don't suppose the 13 level requirement could be specific to the growth option? Trying to keep up with Improved Area Attack, Giant step, and Growth without missing the other goodies is hard enough without waiting until max level to spend feats on them.

Also, might I suggest Big Picture give a little bit more range increase per size category? Even just 10 ft per instead of 5 ft, so at the high sizes they grow at the same rate as Space/Reach.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on April 18, 2015, 08:00:30 AM
Considering that Giant Step and Improved Area attack are doubling effects, I don't feel like it would be a good idea to make them easier to spam, in particular when you can already swap Size Matters options for Bigger is Better ones.

Buffed big picture a bit, increasing special sense range by 10 feet per size and doubling the skill bonus.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: jojolagger on April 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Just realized something stupid.
This:
I don't want to grow!
If a monster class would make you grow but you would rather stay in your previous size, you may instead simply gain a +2 to a physical stat of your choice.
Means that titanic creature's growth power can be used to not grow and still unlock a new step of Improved Area Attack and Giant Step.
Spend 2 class levels for +2 to physical stat of your choice, double speed, and double AoE size? Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2015, 06:27:18 AM
You're not first person to suggest that.
Crazy question: Can you still choose "I don't want to grow!" when choosing "Growth" from BiB?
You could, but then you don't gain the Growth ability at all, and it thus wouldn't count towards unlocking the titanic abilities that need it.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Yasahiro on October 18, 2017, 06:46:24 AM
Sorry for necromancing but I realized it.'s a good place for this, relevant to class and all.

There's an issue regarding AC and Attack roll penalties past colossal. In some cases, such as the most obvious combo I utilize, by taking 7 levels of a giant class and all of titanic, hell even just 5 of titanic, you can reach size category of Colossal++++, what's the problem? In your FAQ you said penalties to AC and Attack roll past colossal increase by 4 for each size past colossal. So at C++++ it is at -26 to AC and Attack Roll. Basically making impossible to use with any regular attack, and as I mentioned in Chaos template thread, some abilities utilize Attack roll as DC or just for its effects, but even if they get bonus effects for being bigger, DC actually becomes lower. That really penalized any concept that focuses on Size. Even if you pick overwhelm, that's a +1 increase to DC and some stuff per size categories. Doesn't offset it.

It's an issue I noticed in some cases, as the stat increases don't really keep up. Most D&D monsters utilized the bonus strength from size increase which at Gargantuan already is +24. And the particularly big monsters had a lot of HD, offsetting its penalties to attack. Can't something be done to make attacking with weapon or such at big sizes viable?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on October 18, 2017, 07:24:28 AM
Quote from: FAQ

I combined two monster classes with gestalt/monster hybrid and now I'm suposed to grow beyond colossal! What happens?

Your character's space and reach increase by 10 feet, height is doubled, its natural armor increases by an extra 1, its natural weapons increase one die size, gain an extra +4 on grapple/bullrush/trip and similar maneuvers that care about size.
There is no mention of scaling penalties. You only gain bonus after colossal here.

Also:
It's an issue I noticed in some cases, as the stat increases don't really keep up. Most D&D monsters utilized the bonus strength from size increase which at Gargantuan already is +24.

That is false. The bloody table with stat boosts for growth is only for DMs advancing monster through HD-and only for that. Actual monsters already stated have whatever ability progression the author feels like. For a simple example take the black dragon. Juvenile is medium and has 17 Str, young adult is large and has 19 Str. Ancient has 33 Str and is huge, Wyrm has 35 and is Gargantuan. A good part of what inspired me to start this whole project was precisely that there is no rhyme nor reason to how monsters get their stats in 3rd edition, the authors just threw numbers at the wall until they felt they were big enough, and that's one of the main reasons there's no balanced way of making them playable beyond complete rewrites.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Yasahiro on October 18, 2017, 07:45:28 AM
Quote from: FAQ

I combined two monster classes with gestalt/monster hybrid and now I'm suposed to grow beyond colossal! What happens?

Your character's space and reach increase by 10 feet, height is doubled, its natural armor increases by an extra 1, its natural weapons increase one die size, gain an extra +4 on grapple/bullrush/trip and similar maneuvers that care about size.
There is no mention of scaling penalties. You only gain bonus after colossal here.

Also:
It's an issue I noticed in some cases, as the stat increases don't really keep up. Most D&D monsters utilized the bonus strength from size increase which at Gargantuan already is +24.

That is false. The bloody table with stat boosts for growth is only for DMs advancing monster through HD-and only for that. Actual monsters already stated have whatever ability progression the author feels like. For a simple example take the black dragon. Juvenile is medium and has 17 Str, young adult is large and has 19 Str. Ancient has 33 Str and is huge, Wyrm has 35 and is Gargantuan. A good part of what inspired me to start this whole project was precisely that there is no rhyme nor reason to how monsters get their stats in 3rd edition, the authors just threw numbers at the wall until they felt they were big enough, and that's one of the main reasons there's no balanced way of making them playable beyond complete rewrites.


No penalties? Oh. Ohmy. I'm sorry for doubting you ever, Oslecamo. Please accept my thanks and apologies
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 18, 2017, 09:10:15 PM
The STR bonuses these classes give pretty much offset the size penalties all the way up to Colossal (+1 Str/+1 Con classes generally get colossal at around level 16, at which point they've gotten +16 STR so +8 to hit... completely nullifying the attack penalty and getting the size benefits and extra damage/HP), so there's not a reason to worry about losing out on attack as compared to normal progression.

Hell, AC generally derives somewhat from CON so you also negate THAT penalty.

Just do something about your abysmal touch AC.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 18, 2017, 09:19:58 PM
For a simple example take the black dragon. Juvenile is medium and has 17 Str, young adult is large and has 19 Str. Ancient has 33 Str and is huge, Wyrm has 35 and is Gargantuan. A good part of what inspired me to start this whole project was precisely that there is no rhyme nor reason to how monsters get their stats in 3rd edition, the authors just threw numbers at the wall until they felt they were big enough, and that's one of the main reasons there's no balanced way of making them playable beyond complete rewrites.
*Feels warm inside*
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Yasahiro on December 22, 2017, 06:56:29 PM
So how do abilities based on how many categories you're bigger than a creature interact if titanic creature is attacking a SWARM? Is it dependent on size of each individual creature or size of swarm?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on December 22, 2017, 09:37:49 PM
Swarm size.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Raineh Daze on December 23, 2017, 02:07:20 AM
Have to say, isn't that implicit in the swarm rules? They're treated as a creature of the swarm size. O_o
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Yasahiro on December 23, 2017, 06:37:24 AM
So a 10 foot by 10 foot swarm of fine sized creatures counts as large?
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on December 23, 2017, 09:17:20 AM
Correct.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Yasahiro on December 23, 2017, 10:17:39 AM
If I can offer opinion on this, that doesn't make sense. That's a group of fine sized creatures trying to damage the titanic creature. The Titanic's abilities shouldn't care about number but rather how big each creature is
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on December 23, 2017, 10:22:02 AM
Counter-opinion:
-A rat has 1 HP and deals max of 1 damage, thus dying to any stiff breeze and unable to penetrate any type of DR.
-A swarm of rats has 18 HP and deals 1d6 damage, meaning it can tank minor area effects and penetrate small amounts of DR.

The whole point of swarms is precisely that the group is greater than the sum of individuals.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: Yasahiro on December 23, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
Counter counter point.
They're still small individually. And unless I remember pathfinder or something else a Swarm can divide, change how many spaces it occupies and decrease in spaces it occupies due to lost hp and still deal same damage as a larger swarm.

Edit: SRD lists size of swarm as size of individual creatures, it's just they occupy bigger space and have different rules for that.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on December 23, 2017, 10:45:27 AM
You're remembering pathfinder. D&D swarms (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm) can only change their shape, but area stays the same regardless of other factors.

Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ketaro on December 23, 2017, 10:46:04 AM
Counter counter counter counter counter point:

Swarms are only classified by the size category of their individual components. That they happen to take up a 10ft square is, in itself, a separate rule within the Swarm type description; however not necessarily actually called out as a "Large" creature despite it's occupied space on the map.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm)

Quote
Swarms are dense masses of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that would not be particularly dangerous in small groups, but can be terrible foes when gathered in sufficient numbers. For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet—gigantic hordes are actually composed of dozens of swarms in close proximity.

Quote
Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space

Quote
In order to attack, a single swarm moves into opponents’ spaces, which provokes an attack of opportunity. It can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey, but remains a creature with a 10-foot space. Swarms never make attacks of opportunity, but they can provoke attacks of opportunity.

Unlike other creatures with a 10-foot space, a swarm is shapeable. It can occupy any four contiguous squares, and it can squeeze through any space large enough to contain one of its component creatures.

It goes on saying that swarms larger than a 10ft square are merely made up for multiples of regular, smaller swarms. *shrugs*

In short, Swarms don't have sizes. The creatures that make up the swarms do.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on December 23, 2017, 10:55:47 AM
Ah well I guess you're right then and Titanic creature is super effective against swarms.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: ketaro on December 23, 2017, 10:58:17 AM
I mean, considering the amount of AoE attacks being big can get you, it feels like it'd make sense as being super effective vs swarms -_-'
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: RegalKain on February 14, 2018, 03:54:12 AM
So I'm a bit curious as to how much of an issue it might cause if "Growth" from other classes counted for the purposes of Titanic Creature ability limits? For instance the Minotaur gets Growth, would it get completely borked if it's natural Growth's counted as taking instances of Titanic Creature's Growth ability?

Edit: Also any chance it'd be possible to add in an option either in BiB or SM that lets you exclude allies from your massive AoE attacks?

Edit2: I was also thinking of another possible ability. To Big to Fail: The titanic creature treats the minimum roll on any damage roll as 1 higher. (For instance if they roll 2d6 and get a 1 and a 5 it counts as a 2 and a 5) You may take this a number of times equal to the times you've taken Growth, each time increasing your minimum by 1. (1 and 2s become 3s, 1, 2 and 3s become 4s etc.)
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on February 19, 2018, 06:51:55 AM
So I'm a bit curious as to how much of an issue it might cause if "Growth" from other classes counted for the purposes of Titanic Creature ability limits? For instance the Minotaur gets Growth, would it get completely borked if it's natural Growth's counted as taking instances of Titanic Creature's Growth ability?
An interesting question. In one hand it may not be broken per se, but in the other hand it would feel like a "win more" where Creatures that are already quite big would benefit exponentially more from Titanic Creature when it's more supposed to help smaller creatures go big. Plus some monster classes like the Animated Object get really fast growths (and the giants get a bunch of free growths per HD with a dip),  so I feel like not making it stack is better.

Edit: Also any chance it'd be possible to add in an option either in BiB or SM that lets you exclude allies from your massive AoE attacks?
Added Gentle Giant to Bigger is Better.

Edit2: I was also thinking of another possible ability. To Big to Fail: The titanic creature treats the minimum roll on any damage roll as 1 higher. (For instance if they roll 2d6 and get a 1 and a 5 it counts as a 2 and a 5) You may take this a number of times equal to the times you've taken Growth, each time increasing your minimum by 1. (1 and 2s become 3s, 1, 2 and 3s become 4s etc.)
Now that seems a bit clunky to use in actual play and all you gain is slightly bigger numbers whitout any real tactical considerations.
Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: dman on August 25, 2019, 11:30:45 PM

Technical questions:
Does Monster Lord allow a titanic creature to damage, reach, grapple, trample, swallow, and shrug off as if he were a Colossal+ size while still being medium size?

Does Shrug Off make him immune to all special abilities that allow a save that come from creatures smaller than Colossal+?

Does Shrug Off(2) turn all saves to Con saves or just saves from no-save abilities?

Title: Re: Titanic Creature
Post by: oslecamo on August 28, 2019, 01:59:20 AM

Technical questions:
Does Monster Lord allow a titanic creature to damage, reach, grapple, trample, swallow, and shrug off as if he were a Colossal+ size while still being medium size?

Does Shrug Off make him immune to all special abilities that allow a save that come from creatures smaller than Colossal+?

Does Shrug Off(2) turn all saves to Con saves or just saves from no-save abilities?
-Yes.
-Only if they actually make the save.
-Only no-save abilities.