Author Topic: Tier 3 Summoner  (Read 2447 times)

Offline ImperatorK

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Tier 3 Summoner
« on: November 10, 2013, 01:23:07 AM »
I want to make a Tier 3 Summoner. Here are the changes I'm making:
- Removed spells (I assume the source of most of his T2 power);
- Eidolon can be summoned as a standard action a few times per day;
- Eidolon and summons can be used at the same time;
- Bonus evolution points equal to Summoner's Cha mod.;

Is this enough for a T3 class?
If not, what other houserules could I add?
Which spells from his list would you consider essential to the Summoner?
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: Tier 3 Summoner
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 01:51:49 AM »
I want to make a Tier 3 Summoner. Here are the changes I'm making:
- Removed spells (I assume the source of most of his T2 power);
- Eidolon can be summoned as a standard action a few times per day;
- Eidolon and summons can be used at the same time;
- Bonus evolution points equal to Summoner's Cha mod.;

Is this enough for a T3 class?
If not, what other houserules could I add?
Which spells from his list would you consider essential to the Summoner?
Well for "essential" I think of the spells that directly affect the Eidolon - specifically, Rejuvenate/Restore Eidolon (unless each summon/day has full HP, etc), Unfetter, Evolution Surge, Life Conduit, and Transmogrify.

You may want to let them take Augmented Summoning, etc feats; with no spells, it's a literally useless feat tax for Spell Focus (Conjuration) unless they're multiclassing, in which case their Eidolon is suffering for it.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Tier 3 Summoner
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 05:42:11 AM »
By essential I mean spells that the Summoner couldn't function properly without. For example the standard action summon is a spell. Without any spells the Eidolon becomes more-or-less the primary and biggest feature of the Summoner, so it can't take a whole minute to summon. To clarify - it still takes 1 minute, but a few times per day the Summoner can do a standard action summon.
Unless you can't heal/restore Eidolons the normal way, these spells aren't essential. Same with Life Conduit.
I don't know about Unfetter. I think I'll just make the maximum distance bigger.
Transmogrify, 1/day, maybe?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 04:27:54 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: Tier 3 Summoner
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2013, 03:06:51 PM »
True with the point about being able to heal them normally making Restore/Rejuvenate, but the Summoner doesn't have any way to do that, and without the Eidolon healing naturally (which it doesn't), the Summoner can't heal the Eidolon on his own... and not everyone is part of an adventuring party (even if it's the case for most games, it's not for most NPC's).

Offline veekie

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Re: Tier 3 Summoner
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 04:03:21 PM »
Well, Summoner's strengths:
-Eidolon makes for a very good pouncer, and in it's own right, qualifies the class for mid range T4 already, but no more.
-Summon Monster SLA is plentiful, fast, long lasting and flexible. This would give it low T3 status on it's own, but the summons aren't that spectacular in combat without the buff spells.
-The spells supply much needed BFC, buffs and debuffs to let the summons excel, and carry out essentials. However, at 6th level progression with a limited know-list, it's not much of a caster, and offensive spells will have pretty crappy DCs.
What makes it T2 are specific spells mostly, and you could bring it down to T3 by trimming these: Charm/Dominate Monster, Contact Other Plane, Major/Minor Creation(in groups where abusing creation is possible), Planar Binding, Create Demiplane(though you lack the Greater version for time and morphic traits), and Gate.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Tier 3 Summoner
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 03:24:47 AM »
It's easier to just remove spells.
There's always UMD for healing. Or maybe some summons have healing spell-likes.
Magic is for weaklings.

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