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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: What new horizons are there to explore at this point in 3.P's life?
« on: October 31, 2014, 12:58:09 PM »
Good read Endarire, thanks.
What I think is difficult, is that there are two kinds of 'fun' that combine badly. The fun of wonder, the difficulties of solving new situations, new riddles and new challenges, match badly with the fun of optimizing. The first depends on not knowing what happens and trying to find out (wether it is "omg I'm being grappled by an ogre how am I going to get out and how will I survive" or "omg my spells and items are not working what is going on"). The second demands a great mastery of the system (which makes sure that not only do you know the grapple rules by hart, you also know what the ogre's modifier is, and what you need to roll to escape, and hell you are an optimizer so you activiate your anklet of translocation or shadow jaunt feat; or which lets you know you are in an AMF, which probably covers this and that area, so you can walk out and do whatever)
Especially in a system like 3.5, that has rules for everything, you can't have both at the same time very well. Maybe this is easier in fifth, I understood there are much less rules and much more that's up to the DM. I haven't read the PHB yet, but for me that would seem like a good development. Under 3.5, a DM who adds new stuff, to invoke that sense of wonder and unpredictability ('what is happening') with experienced players might feel forced to invent rules, use artifacts, unique effects, to prevent the situation where a party already knows all the answers and solutions (or in any case the spells/effects necessary to get to them). If you're unlucky, players might even grow resentfull of that, and see it as a nerf or 'not playing by the rules'. If 5th really is more open and less strict with rules, it should be easier for a DM to create new, wonderous situations. Another example: magic items. In 3.5, experience players know exactly what is what and what each character needs at what level to have maximum survivability/power; in 5th, every item is (if I understood well) strange and unique and rare. That should help.
About what horizons there are to explore, for me plenty. I started out just like you with 3.0, played and DM'd lots and lots of characters. But with the variety 3.5 offers, there are always new classes, races, and concepts to play. The all powerful uber-caster who 'wins d&d' never stroke me as very attractive, so it never was an 'end point' for me, only something to try out of curiosity and then forget about.
I'll happily continu with 3.5, will continue in my first greyhawk campaign, play my first bard and first psion in another, and in a few months an Al Quadim campaign for the first time. Plenty to explore. And maybe in some time I'll join the Fifth as well, and I might even skip going into all the optimizing and game mastery, and try to find out through the game (and not through mastery of the game rules) what the hell is going on.
Anyway, game on
What I think is difficult, is that there are two kinds of 'fun' that combine badly. The fun of wonder, the difficulties of solving new situations, new riddles and new challenges, match badly with the fun of optimizing. The first depends on not knowing what happens and trying to find out (wether it is "omg I'm being grappled by an ogre how am I going to get out and how will I survive" or "omg my spells and items are not working what is going on"). The second demands a great mastery of the system (which makes sure that not only do you know the grapple rules by hart, you also know what the ogre's modifier is, and what you need to roll to escape, and hell you are an optimizer so you activiate your anklet of translocation or shadow jaunt feat; or which lets you know you are in an AMF, which probably covers this and that area, so you can walk out and do whatever)
Especially in a system like 3.5, that has rules for everything, you can't have both at the same time very well. Maybe this is easier in fifth, I understood there are much less rules and much more that's up to the DM. I haven't read the PHB yet, but for me that would seem like a good development. Under 3.5, a DM who adds new stuff, to invoke that sense of wonder and unpredictability ('what is happening') with experienced players might feel forced to invent rules, use artifacts, unique effects, to prevent the situation where a party already knows all the answers and solutions (or in any case the spells/effects necessary to get to them). If you're unlucky, players might even grow resentfull of that, and see it as a nerf or 'not playing by the rules'. If 5th really is more open and less strict with rules, it should be easier for a DM to create new, wonderous situations. Another example: magic items. In 3.5, experience players know exactly what is what and what each character needs at what level to have maximum survivability/power; in 5th, every item is (if I understood well) strange and unique and rare. That should help.
About what horizons there are to explore, for me plenty. I started out just like you with 3.0, played and DM'd lots and lots of characters. But with the variety 3.5 offers, there are always new classes, races, and concepts to play. The all powerful uber-caster who 'wins d&d' never stroke me as very attractive, so it never was an 'end point' for me, only something to try out of curiosity and then forget about.
I'll happily continu with 3.5, will continue in my first greyhawk campaign, play my first bard and first psion in another, and in a few months an Al Quadim campaign for the first time. Plenty to explore. And maybe in some time I'll join the Fifth as well, and I might even skip going into all the optimizing and game mastery, and try to find out through the game (and not through mastery of the game rules) what the hell is going on.
Anyway, game on
