Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Inspiration | Special | Soulmelds | Essentia | Chakra Binds |
1st | +0 | +0 | +2 | +2 | 2 | Inspiration, awakened defense, subliminal knowledge | 1 | 1 | 0 |
2nd | +1 | +0 | +3 | +3 | 3 | Awakened essence, fugue state (1 maneuver), fugue stance | 2 | 1 | 0 |
3rd | +2 | +1 | +3 | +3 | 3 | Chakra bind (crown), extraction | 2 | 2 | 1 |
4th | +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 | 3 | Impose will, lucid projection 20% | 3 | 2 | 1 |
5th | +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 | 4 | Chakra bind (feet, hands), fugue state (2 maneuvers) | 3 | 3 | 1 |
6th | +4 | +2 | +5 | +5 | 4 | Awakened offense | 3 | 3 | 2 |
7th | +5 | +2 | +5 | +5 | 4 | Awakened capacity, fugue state (3 maneuvers) | 4 | 4 | 2 |
8th | +6/+1 | +2 | +6 | +6 | 5 | Improved extraction, lucid projection 40% | 4 | 5 | 2 |
9th | +6/+1 | +3 | +6 | +6 | 5 | Chakra bind (arms, brow, shoulders) | 4 | 5 | 2 |
10th | +7/+2 | +3 | +7 | +7 | 5 | Fugue state (4 maneuvers) | 5 | 6 | 3 |
11th | +8/+3 | +3 | +7 | +7 | 6 | Contagious awakening | 5 | 7 | 3 |
12th | +9/+4 | +4 | +8 | +8 | 6 | Fugue state (5 maneuvers), lucid projection 60% | 5 | 7 | 3 |
13th | +9/+4 | +4 | +8 | +8 | 6 | Greater extraction | 6 | 8 | 3 |
14th | +10/+5 | +4 | +9 | +9 | 7 | Chakra bind (throat, waist) | 6 | 9 | 4 |
15th | +11/+6/+1 | +5 | +9 | +9 | 7 | Fugue state (6 maneuvers), we need to go deeper | 6 | 10 | 4 |
16th | +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 | 7 | Awakened transcendence, lucid projection 80% | 7 | 11 | 4 |
17th | +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 | 8 | Fugue state (7 maneuvers) | 7 | 12 | 4 |
18th | +13/+8/+3 | +6 | +11 | +11 | 8 | Supreme extraction | 7 | 13 | 5 |
19th | +14/+9/+4 | +6 | +11 | +11 | 8 | Chakra bind (heart) | 8 | 14 | 5 |
20th | +15/+10/+5 | +6 | +12 | +12 | 10 | Dream disruption, fugue state (8 maneuvers), lucid projection 100% | 8 | 16 | 5 |
The Extractor cannot ready the same maneuver multiple times to use it more than once during the same day.Shouldn't that be encounter?
Upon achieving 4th level, an Extractor gains a Lucid Projection, which functions as a cohort of his Extractor level -3. However, the Projection does not exit all the time.:P And why is it his ECL-3, instead of -2 like a normal cohort? I think you should play an Extractor, and have your new character be his (or her) Projection. :D
Just looking it over for now. Noticed this:Yes, thank you!QuoteThe Extractor cannot ready the same maneuver multiple times to use it more than once during the same day.Shouldn't that be encounter?
Just saw your edit. Fixed the typo.QuoteUpon achieving 4th level, an Extractor gains a Lucid Projection, which functions as a cohort of his Extractor level -3. However, the Projection does not exit all the time.:P And why is it his ECL-3, instead of -2 like a normal cohort? I think you should play an Extractor, and have your new character be his (or her) Projection. :D
Still looking through this myself. I'm actually starting with the soulmelds, for some reason. I haven't actually gotten very far, yet.Fixed & clarified on all counts.(click to show/hide)
Bracers of Projection (Arms): Same problem. You have to declare your target (see the second sentence) before you get the benefit. Your target must be within reach, thus negating the benefit.Alright, how do I make this work the way I intend?
Brooch of Stars (Heart): By the time you get this, you'll be making the save on a 1. Just say you take half damage from attacks and be done with it, removing the risk of any the issue (which can still exist with certain Improved Evasion abilities, a Ring of Evasion, and who knows how many homebrew abilities).Hm. I'd still like there to be a save. Maybe a Ref save vs their attack roll?
On a related note, this effect has two particular things I hate in its mechanics. Fixed save DCs, and making a save against your own ability to impede your opponents' attacks.
Fixed DCs are bad because eventually you just make them on a 1.
Saves against your own ability are weird, counterintuitive, and deny the standard mechanics. Your save DC boosters apply (working against you), but your opponents have no method to make their own attack form more effective.
Bracers of Projection (Arms): Same problem. You have to declare your target (see the second sentence) before you get the benefit. Your target must be within reach, thus negating the benefit.Alright, how do I make this work the way I intend?
QuoteBrooch of Stars (Heart): By the time you get this, you'll be making the save on a 1. Just say you take half damage from attacks and be done with it, removing the risk of any the issue (which can still exist with certain Improved Evasion abilities, a Ring of Evasion, and who knows how many homebrew abilities).Hm. I'd still like there to be a save. Maybe a Ref save vs their attack roll?
On a related note, this effect has two particular things I hate in its mechanics. Fixed save DCs, and making a save against your own ability to impede your opponents' attacks.
Fixed DCs are bad because eventually you just make them on a 1.
Saves against your own ability are weird, counterintuitive, and deny the standard mechanics. Your save DC boosters apply (working against you), but your opponents have no method to make their own attack form more effective.
Thank you! lol.Bracers of Projection (Arms): Same problem. You have to declare your target (see the second sentence) before you get the benefit. Your target must be within reach, thus negating the benefit.Alright, how do I make this work the way I intend?
Whenever you would make a melee attack, before declaring the target of your attack, you can choose a single subject as a free action. Make a Lucid Dreaming check against a DC equal to the subject's AC. If you succeed, your reach increases by 10 feet for this melee attack, but only for the purpose of attacking the subject. Even on a failure, you can still choose to attack another valid target you threaten.
How about "DC = 10 + the amount the attack roll beat your AC by"?QuoteQuoteBrooch of Stars (Heart): By the time you get this, you'll be making the save on a 1. Just say you take half damage from attacks and be done with it, removing the risk of any the issue (which can still exist with certain Improved Evasion abilities, a Ring of Evasion, and who knows how many homebrew abilities).Hm. I'd still like there to be a save. Maybe a Ref save vs their attack roll?
On a related note, this effect has two particular things I hate in its mechanics. Fixed save DCs, and making a save against your own ability to impede your opponents' attacks.
Fixed DCs are bad because eventually you just make them on a 1.
Saves against your own ability are weird, counterintuitive, and deny the standard mechanics. Your save DC boosters apply (working against you), but your opponents have no method to make their own attack form more effective.
Gonna fail. Attack bonuses outscale saves.
How about "DC = 10 + the amount the attack roll beat your AC by"?
I like the class overall, but much of what you have written up in the Extraction material is already in the Lucid Dreaming skill itself (as I know you noticed after writing this... :P ). The information in the spoiler is a step in the right direction. The main difference between just someone with ranks in Lucid Dreaming and what this guy is doing is the actual information gathering part, right? So the mechanics of Extraction should definitely focus on that, and only mention briefly the parts that just use the skill's mechanics (if at all).Yeah, that's kind of the idea. I want this to be a sort of mental combat system, but using skill checks instead of attack rolls & crap. The idea is to make it something you actually get to roleplay out.
In the movie, they did the trick with the safe. I think that's great, and should definitely be included. This is basically letting you use your Open Lock skill instead of Bluff to get the target to give you some information. All of the other parts of the setup just facilitate that. So how about just having it work like that (use Open Lock instead of Bluff to trick the target into "giving" you the information you want)?
You could allow the same kind of thing with other skills, as alternatives to get the information.
And why the penalty on the check to draw them into the dream based on distance? Do you think that's something that should be included in the skill itself? It seems very odd that a class specialized in using a skill would be worse at some aspects of it than someone who didn't take the class, but instead just used the skill normally...I dunno... the lore goes both ways. I was including it to kind of represent the whole "we have to be close to you to hook you up to the machine" thing... but in, for example, Tel'ara'rhiod, you can find someone's dreams from anywhere and pull them into dream shards. So I'm kinda torn.
Easier, just do the DC as normal, 10+(1/2 BAB)+ Stat.Hm, yeah that's better. Done!
I dunno... the lore goes both ways. I was including it to kind of represent the whole "we have to be close to you to hook you up to the machine" thing... but in, for example, Tel'ara'rhiod, you can find someone's dreams from anywhere and pull them into dream shards. So I'm kinda torn.I went for the first one, obviously. :P It makes sense in the movie to have to be close, but in D&D it doesn't, really. The existence of souls and minds outside of their bodies is well established, even in specific regard to dreaming.
Locate Dreamer/Dreamwalker: A Dreamwalker may cast their mind across the Plane of Dreams to find the dream of a specific individual. If the individual that they are searching for is within the same Dreamscape as them, then the DC for this check is only 10 plus the number of dream levels separating them.
If they are in separate dreams, then the DC is based on the familiarity the Dreamwalker (the person making the check) has for the Dreamer (the person they're trying to find). If they are intimate friend, then the DC is only 15. For close friends, the DC is 17. For less well known friends and associates, the DC is 20. For someone they've seen only once (including via Scrying), the DC is 25. For someone they've only heard of, the DC is 30.
I dunno... the lore goes both ways. I was including it to kind of represent the whole "we have to be close to you to hook you up to the machine" thing... but in, for example, Tel'ara'rhiod, you can find someone's dreams from anywhere and pull them into dream shards. So I'm kinda torn.For T'A'R, you need to be physically close or more importantly, spiritually close to find a particular person/dream, unless the dream is particularly strong or noticeable in some other way. So it's twofold, you have to be physically near them unless you have a pre-existing close relationship or some other connection.
Hmm... I guess I could make it a set of modifiers, rather than static DCs based on specific relationships, and incorporate physical distance as well. That's not a bad idea at all... I'll put that into the skill writeup, so it doesn't have to be part of this class (and hence a nerf at how they use the skill :P ).I dunno... the lore goes both ways. I was including it to kind of represent the whole "we have to be close to you to hook you up to the machine" thing... but in, for example, Tel'ara'rhiod, you can find someone's dreams from anywhere and pull them into dream shards. So I'm kinda torn.For T'A'R, you need to be physically close or more importantly, spiritually close to find a particular person/dream, unless the dream is particularly strong or noticeable in some other way. So it's twofold, you have to be physically near them unless you have a pre-existing close relationship or some other connection.
I haven't seen the movie.
Read the description of the class, and started to think of the greek philosophers who laid the groundwork for existential thought. Specifically, Plato's Theory of Forms. Then I read the "designers note".(click to show/hide)
Very well-written and interesting class.
Table in the Extraction rules is 'broken'. Row tag isn't closed.
So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.
That's a good point. After all, a dreamscape could be nearly infinite, for all practical purposes. So you could set your "maze" up outside their current "field of view", but in a way that connects with their current dreamscape, and then lure them into it so that it seems like a natural, seamless transition, and doesn't alert them or their subconscious that something is "afoot".So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.
More like re-word it so that you super-impose the dreamscape you design into their dream so that it becomes their dreamscape.
Something else I thought of: this "extraction" should be capable only within the target's mind. That's why building and maintaining the dreamscape is so difficult and taxing (as opposed to normal): you're not making it in your own mind, but rather manipulating someone else's in such a way as to trap them within it, and trick them into revealing their secrets to you.Actually, in the movie it's the extractor who's the dreamer (or a member of the extractor's team), and the target is pulled in and populates with its own subconscious projections. I was going to have "populate" be a defending tactic...
If all of this was done within your own mind, then your secrets would be the ones revealed in the end (when you crack the safe, etc).
The way its written now, it sounds like you're constructing this within your own mind and drawing them into it, but that's now how it worked in the movie, and I don't think that really makes sense here, either.
So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.
Actually, in the movie it's the extractor who's the dreamer (or a member of the extractor's team), and the target is pulled in and populates with its own subconscious projections. I was going to have "populate" be a defending tactic...Just finished it. And this is indeed how it worked there. Thing is, this class already deviates a little. Here, she was right. Though seppuku would still not work as intended.
Thoughts? :DActually, in the movie it's the extractor who's the dreamer (or a member of the extractor's team), and the target is pulled in and populates with its own subconscious projections. I was going to have "populate" be a defending tactic...Just finished it.
And this is indeed how it worked there. Thing is, this class already deviates a little. Here, she was right. Though seppuku would still not work as intended.Yeah, I think I'll have to change it to go with what you & phae suggested.
Still, amazingly fun and versatile class. Like a mental Sublime Rouge, in that it is a skillful class, that has unique methods to solve problems. And the way in which it uses Manouvers (from one school), Soulmelds, and Inspiration, yet manages to blend then in a simple and sensical manner is awesome.I'm glad you like it!
Seriously, each one has its contributions, yet none of them over-power the others, and each one is presented in a way that you can almost pick up and go with it.
Flavour: awesome
Mechanics: awesome
Most of your classes, I regard as interesting, and they're things I'd use as a DM. Warcrafter is something I want to try as a PC. This one I have to play.
Just a personal preference point:I think that would probably be ok. I need some feats, actually... I'd forgotten.
Would a feat that switches Wis for Int of the class features, and for Lucid Dreaming, be reasonable?
Thoughts? :DThe ending was 'meh', but the rest was really good.
QuoteJust a personal preference point:I think that would probably be ok. I need some feats, actually... I'd forgotten.
Would a feat that switches Wis for Int of the class features, and for Lucid Dreaming, be reasonable?
Minor thing I just noticed, but the weapon proficiencies still include weapons created by Infinite Shore maneuvers, which of course only create weapons with which you're proficient.Hm... right. OK, I'll fix that.
Soporific vambraces grant your touch the ability to put people to sleep. You may make a melee touch attack as a standard action; if it succeeds, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or fall asleep. On a failed save, or if your opponent is immune to sleep effects, the opponent is fatigued instead, for 1 round.
Yup. I shall fix.Quote from: Soporific VambracesSoporific vambraces grant your touch the ability to put people to sleep. You may make a melee touch attack as a standard action; if it succeeds, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or fall asleep. On a failed save, or if your opponent is immune to sleep effects, the opponent is fatigued instead, for 1 round.
Should that be "on a successful save..." ?
When a Lucid Projection appears, is it considered to have performed any actions necessary to set up its powers?Hm. I meant to say it was an Extractor. So... I'll fix that.
That is, would a Wizard Lucid Projection appear with spells already prepared? Would a Ritualist Projection appear with a full complement of charged Rituals, etc?
Are you at all concerned that Wandering Shoes essentially let anyone spend a feat (Shape Soulmeld) to gain a floating feat? Two feats (adding Open Least Chakra) removes the movement requirement, so any feat at all will work, rather than just a limited but significant subset.I've thought about it... there are so many characters I've had where a floating feat would be nice.... hopefully it's not broken XD
Are you at all concerned that Wandering Shoes essentially let anyone spend a feat (Shape Soulmeld) to gain a floating feat? Two feats (adding Open Least Chakra) removes the movement requirement, so any feat at all will work, rather than just a limited but significant subset.I've thought about it... there are so many characters I've had where a floating feat would be nice.... hopefully it's not broken XD