Author Topic: Custom Design: Classes and Such  (Read 6765 times)

Offline Nifft

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Custom Design: Classes and Such
« on: March 05, 2017, 05:55:30 PM »
In the spirit of Stratovarius' base class design thread (here), this is a generic ask-for-design thread which welcomes design requests and responses.

Prompt replies are NOT promised.

Feel free to chime in with a new / different / better design for anything which has already gotten a response, too.

Offline Chaos_Blade

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2017, 02:19:11 AM »
Sorry for the uh necro, and I'm fine if this gets deleted.

But I'm wondering about like, kinda anime class concept best I can tell. A character who is possessed, like the fluff in eberron makes Elans, except with actual interaction with the possessing critter.

I like the idea of just some kind of 'super form' that draws on some pacted/possessing spirit? Like the best example I can find is an anime, Naruto, later on.

I doubt it's really anythingt hat'd interest you, but.

I'd like it as a base class, just because someone with a headvoice and transformation and such as a base class has always interested me!

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 04:33:25 AM »
Sorry for the uh necro, and I'm fine if this gets deleted.

But I'm wondering about like, kinda anime class concept best I can tell. A character who is possessed, like the fluff in eberron makes Elans, except with actual interaction with the possessing critter.

I like the idea of just some kind of 'super form' that draws on some pacted/possessing spirit? Like the best example I can find is an anime, Naruto, later on.

I doubt it's really anythingt hat'd interest you, but.

I'd like it as a base class, just because someone with a headvoice and transformation and such as a base class has always interested me!

Okay, going to need more than that. Just "possession" isn't enough. Super form? Bit better, but are we talking Barbarian Rage style boost or are we talking Metamind capstone? Something the class uses for every significant fight of the day, or something they only pull out when a particular target needs murderstomped?

What subsystem? Psionics, Spells, Bardic Music/[Divine] feat shared uses for several abilities mechanic, Incarnum, Truenaming, Shadowcasting, Martial Initiating, Binding... What subsystem you want? I can work out some basic stuff for you to refine the idea further, if you give me a starting point.

Heck, I'd be down for any homebrew subsystem you can link, if you can give some level of description as to how to use it. I'd love to try working with Remnant Casting(links to subforum it's in), which is a system of unlimited daily use powers without using actions, as it's an amazing subsystem for any Gish style setup. Due to not using actions and being unlimited daily use. Actually manages to avoid being entirely broken, interestingly enough. Although there's action economy issues, for me, in that the pure caster ones don't actually have anything to use their actions on that's able to fill the workday.

Although Spirit Magic would work better with possession, having mechanics for the character to be screwed over by the possessing entity and get almost unconditional massive help, I'm not at all familiar with the balance point of that subsystem. It's incomplete to the point where it doesn't even have it's spell list equivalent done, so I can only use the base mechanics and implied mechanics. Like 8 Concessions per Concession level, going by the fact that there's a d8 used for the random selection. Which means needing to make 24-40 spell-like effects to penalize the character, on top of however many Dogmas are needed to be functional.

A third homebrew subsystem to use would be Outcasts, which have mechanics heavily rooted in transformation and alien perspectives. The mechanics are fairly simple, overall, and most of the work is class-segregated. It's really just the basic mechanics of Blemishes Learned and Readied and the currently-universal theme of "outsider" present. Not in the sense of Celestials and Fiends, but it the sense of being, well, an Outcast. Apart from typical society, whether by choice, nature or reaction.

So... What kinda subsystem do you want? I can explain any of these subsystems, including the list of first-parties at the top, to you more clearly, if you need more information.

Offline Chaos_Blade

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2017, 04:48:20 AM »
I was thinking like something between a Barbarian's Rage and something like a Warlock and ...

See,the idea I had was this warrior that transformed into increasingly more monstrous forms, either partially or completely, doing things like become some sort of... were-horror or just turning an arm into a cannon of magic energy. Looking at what you linked, the general theme of transforming due to some horrible power fits well with the Outcast homebrew subsystem. I could totally in theory change the concept from possessed to someone who's filled with like an ...

Well anyway, enough rambling just before bed ; the idea I was getting towards is that the Outcasts work well fromw hat I read over for what I had in mind.

Some sort of Barbarian / Warlocl / Outcast, possibly with a weaker 'rage' without a time limit (But you have to make a will save to exit) sounds really in line with what I was thinking. I think. I'm pretty sleep deprived at this point.

Sorry.


Offline YuweaCurtis

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 10:24:03 AM »
How about Sword Art Online skills as a Discipline?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 11:33:09 AM »
This sounds kinda like a reflavoring of Scaleshaper from my Ethos of the Wyrm... but it does sound like a fun class to play, and I'd be happy to take a gander at it if no one else wants to.
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Offline Chaos_Blade

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 03:01:49 PM »
Something like this?
Not quite. The fluff is very good, and the extra damage thing is also nice, but the transformations are limited in timeframe and -constantly- seem to risk you losing control of your character. Even if you burn feats all you get is the creature inside you saying it won't attack your allies.

This sounds kinda like a reflavoring of Scaleshaper from my Ethos of the Wyrm... but it does sound like a fun class to play, and I'd be happy to take a gander at it if no one else wants to.
So I checked out your Ethos of the Wyrm and... Mechanically speaking yeah, the Scaleshaper fits very well what I had in mind. I would greatly appreciate if you made an attempt at the possessed transformer class using something similar to that. I'm more awake now, so if you had any more-specific questions, I'd be able to better answer them probably!

Offline Nifft

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2017, 03:08:24 PM »
Sorry for the uh necro, and I'm fine if this gets deleted.

But I'm wondering about like, kinda anime class concept best I can tell. A character who is possessed, like the fluff in eberron makes Elans, except with actual interaction with the possessing critter.

I like the idea of just some kind of 'super form' that draws on some pacted/possessing spirit? Like the best example I can find is an anime, Naruto, later on.

I doubt it's really anythingt hat'd interest you, but.

I'd like it as a base class, just because someone with a headvoice and transformation and such as a base class has always interested me!
I was thinking like something between a Barbarian's Rage and something like a Warlock and ...

See,the idea I had was this warrior that transformed into increasingly more monstrous forms, either partially or completely, doing things like become some sort of... were-horror or just turning an arm into a cannon of magic energy. Looking at what you linked, the general theme of transforming due to some horrible power fits well with the Outcast homebrew subsystem. I could totally in theory change the concept from possessed to someone who's filled with like an ...

Well anyway, enough rambling just before bed ; the idea I was getting towards is that the Outcasts work well fromw hat I read over for what I had in mind.

Some sort of Barbarian / Warlocl / Outcast, possibly with a weaker 'rage' without a time limit (But you have to make a will save to exit) sounds really in line with what I was thinking. I think. I'm pretty sleep deprived at this point.

Sorry.
3.5e Warlock can already do the basics for that, I think.

Start with Eldritch Claws (the feat which gives you claws that deal + Eldritch Blast damage). That's your level 1 "corruption", and it stacks with any shape-shifting you do later on.

For the more powerful later transformations, I think you're right that a Barbarian's Rage is a good way to model that. In effect, you'd have a customizable Binder hybrid with a Warlock chassis, and the most powerful options would be an increasingly powerful daily-limited effect, which Fatigued you after using it (for the rest of the encounter).

Which system is this for? I'm assuming 3.5e, but in 5e you could probably do something cool with a 5e Warlock.

Offline Chaos_Blade

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 03:23:17 PM »
3.5e Warlock can already do the basics for that, I think.

Start with Eldritch Claws (the feat which gives you claws that deal + Eldritch Blast damage). That's your level 1 "corruption", and it stacks with any shape-shifting you do later on.

For the more powerful later transformations, I think you're right that a Barbarian's Rage is a good way to model that. In effect, you'd have a customizable Binder hybrid with a Warlock chassis, and the most powerful options would be an increasingly powerful daily-limited effect, which Fatigued you after using it (for the rest of the encounter).

Which system is this for? I'm assuming 3.5e, but in 5e you could probably do something cool with a 5e Warlock.

Yeah, 3.5.

Eldritch claws was something I didn't know about, which sounds pretty cool. I'd considered at some point something similar to a Knight of the Sacred Seal binder mxied with barb and warlockas  a sort of hybrid class, but Knoght of the Sacred Seal is a PrC.

Sirpercival's Scaleshaper looks pretty cool too, and if he's willing to take a shot at brewing up a class based on my idea with a similar working to the Scaleshaper, I'm actually kinda excited for that.

Thanks for the reply / feedback!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:52:30 PM by Chaos_Blade »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 03:44:58 PM »
Something like this?
Not quite. The fluff is very good, and the extra damage thing is also nice, but the transformations are limited in timeframe and -constantly- seem to risk you losing control of your character. Even if you burn feats all you get is the creature inside you saying it won't attack your allies.

I agree that I'm not a fan of the losing control of the character aspect, but all of the Harrowings are permanent and that's where I've gotten my transformations from when I played the class.

Offline Nifft

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2017, 05:04:48 PM »
Yeah, 3.5.

Eldritch claws was something I didn't know about, which sounds pretty cool. I'd considered at some point something similar to a Knight of the Sacred Seal binder mxied with barb and warlockas  a sort of hybrid class, but Knoght of the Sacred Seal is a PrC.

Sirpercival's Scaleshaper looks pretty cool too, and if he's willing to take a shot at brewing up a class based on my idea with a similar working to the Scaleshaper, I'm actually kinda excited for that.

Thanks for the reply / feedback!

I'd just use Eldritch Claws as a balance point, along with Totemist soulmelds.

IMHO the features of this class would be:
- All-day at-will moderate power (base power like Warlock / DFA / Totemist)
- Daily limited exceptional power (limit mechanics based on Barbarian rage)

If you have enough to go on, then I guess there's no hurry, but I'll probably look into this concept eventually. It's an archetype that could have a lot of different applications, and IMHO it looks like a fun thing to play.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 08:41:13 PM »
By the way, I have to point out that the Binder is almost exactly what you're talking about. But I've already started working on something :)
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Offline Chaos_Blade

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 09:34:00 PM »
By the way, I have to point out that the Binder is almost exactly what you're talking about. But I've already started working on something :)

Even if Binder with Sacred Seal is exstant already, after finding your Scaleshaper I was likely to end up playing that and just refluffing it some instead, but if you're working on something I'm all kinds of hype to see what you come out with!

Thank you kindly.

Offline Nifft

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 03:09:38 AM »
By the way, I have to point out that the Binder is almost exactly what you're talking about. But I've already started working on something :)
Binder has the right thematics, but the wrong mechanics.

Binder can swap power-packages; this guy cannot.
Binder has no transformative Rage-mode; this guy should.
Binder gets multiple power-packages (eventually); this guy oughtn't.
(Etc.)

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 06:04:20 AM »
Binder has the right thematics, but the wrong mechanics.
Actually, Binder doesn't. Unless the class is actively calling Outsiders to possess them, then it isn't the right thematics. This is about having horrible things locked away within oneself and deriving power from it.

Quote
Binder can swap power-packages; this guy cannot.
Well, overall powerset, no. Swapping between horrific deformations/terrible esoteric bullshit on a per-transformation basis is kinda vital to functioning properly.

Quote
Binder has no transformative Rage-mode; this guy should.
Not entirely contrary to Binder, as it's entirely possible to tie Binding to a rage mode, or have Vestiges only grant certain, transformative abilities during said Rage-mode.

Quote
Binder gets multiple power-packages (eventually); this guy oughtn't.
(Etc.)
Actually, multiple power packages can be a thing. It can be how the "progressively more monstrous" thing works.


Offline Nifft

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2017, 10:10:02 AM »
Binder has the right thematics, but the wrong mechanics.
Actually, Binder doesn't. Unless the class is actively calling Outsiders to possess them, then it isn't the right thematics. This is about having horrible things locked away within oneself and deriving power from it.

Quote
Binder can swap power-packages; this guy cannot.
Well, overall powerset, no. Swapping between horrific deformations/terrible esoteric bullshit on a per-transformation basis is kinda vital to functioning properly.

Quote
Binder has no transformative Rage-mode; this guy should.
Not entirely contrary to Binder, as it's entirely possible to tie Binding to a rage mode, or have Vestiges only grant certain, transformative abilities during said Rage-mode.

Quote
Binder gets multiple power-packages (eventually); this guy oughtn't.
(Etc.)
Actually, multiple power packages can be a thing. It can be how the "progressively more monstrous" thing works.
This must be some kind of nitpick-trolling shitpost.

You almost got a bite, but you gave it away by using "Actually, ..." twice.

(Or am I giving too much credit here?)

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 07:18:37 PM »
This must be some kind of nitpick-trolling shitpost.

You almost got a bite, but you gave it away by using "Actually, ..." twice.

(Or am I giving too much credit here?)
It is nitpicking. Not quite a trolling shitpost, as it's pointing things out. Using "actually" twice is just me being bad at wording in many situations. It's technically proper grammar, which is why I'm prone to such errors.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 11:47:27 PM »
By the way, I have to point out that the Binder is almost exactly what you're talking about. But I've already started working on something :)

Even if Binder with Sacred Seal is exstant already, after finding your Scaleshaper I was likely to end up playing that and just refluffing it some instead, but if you're working on something I'm all kinds of hype to see what you come out with!

Thank you kindly.

Here you go, let me know what you think so far :)
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Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Custom Design: Classes and Such
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2017, 05:37:05 AM »
So, to add a second request to this thread, how about a re-deriving of Vancian magic? D&D added spell slots and spell levels to the concept, while the system made by Jack Vance just had flat spells and how many you can memorize. No levels of spells. Prismatic Spray, in Vance's work, was basically guaranteed death for anything hit by it. Time Stop was essentially

My thinking is to focus on memorizing as a mechanic, rather than the limited use side. Essentially, the class's main "thing" could be having bonuses based on memorized spells, with actual use of the spells being nearly, if not actually, encounter-solving outright, but being somewhat careful to make sure each spell only solves narrow kinds of encounters and having memorization benefits that make casting a spell to solve one encounter deprive you of bonuses needed for a largely different kind of encounter. For example, memorizing a massive-scale AoE spell that exists to clear out large groups of weak creatures could have the attached bonus of increasing stealth skills, so wiping out that Orc village deprives you of the ability to sneak past the guards of the fortress you were on your way to when you ran into said village.

Why? It's magic based on memorizing extremely complex higher-dimensional mathematics. The mental effects need not be related to the magical ones.

So... Balance points, as in t2 or t3, mechanics details, as in how it should scale, general direction to go with it, like whether to have the core Martial functionality be on the chassis or in the spell-memorizing-bonuses, are all welcome discussion for this idea. And someone else just flat out making the entire friggin subsystem would also work, but I'd prefer to have it be an actual discussion.