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Gaming Discussion => D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder => Min/Max 3.x => Topic started by: zook1shoe on October 02, 2013, 06:30:37 PM

Title: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 02, 2013, 06:30:37 PM
continued from Fun Finds 4.0 (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10070.new#new)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 02, 2013, 06:43:06 PM
Something really weird that I found out about the Fiend of Blasphemy PRC:

Quote from: 123456789blaaa
One very interesting option could be psionic's in general:

Quote from: SRD
Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)
The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.


Take the Magic Mantle and PLA's count as SLA's. Thus you could then give your psionic ability with Blood Oath. I have no idea how this works.

The only 3 classes I know of that grant Mantles are the Ardent, ACF Wilder, and the Divine Mind. Wilder is Cha-focused and Divine Mind is crap. Ardent is actually the best choice because they're are Wis-focused so there isn't MAD and because ardents have a unique way of selecting powers so they don't get crippled as much by ML loss.

Go Ardent 10 (for the dominant ideal ACF)/FoB 2/Psychic Theurge 4/Ardent 4 (not in that order). Not a bad build at all (assuming the psionic transfer isn't crappy).


Quote from: 123456789blaaa
If you wanted to go the Mantled Wilder route, you could combine it with the phrenic template actually. Just make sure you're using LA buyoff.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 02, 2013, 06:44:37 PM
Whu?

I don't-

Whu?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on October 02, 2013, 06:57:10 PM
well, wasnt this a fun find
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 02, 2013, 06:58:40 PM
Whu?

I don't-

Whu?

FoB's can transfer their SLA's to cultists who have participated in a Blood Oath ritual. It's a PRC that's in the Fiend Folio.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nanshork on October 02, 2013, 07:24:19 PM
That's...interesting.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 02, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Whu?

I don't-

Whu?

FoB's can transfer their SLA's to cultists who have participated in a Blood Oath ritual. It's a PRC that's in the Fiend Folio.

I got that; I'm just not sure how that would work mechanically.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on October 02, 2013, 10:09:15 PM
isn't the ability to manifest psionics actually technically separate from the individual psionic powers; ie: learning / knowing?

however, i see it effectively making the character count as "psionic" for purposes of feats, prestige, etc...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on October 02, 2013, 10:09:32 PM
whoops, double post.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ananse on October 03, 2013, 01:56:17 AM
If psi-like abilities are spell like abilities, then Ability Focus and anything else that can boost the latter can boost the former. Start with Quicken Spell-Like Ability and go to town.

And claiming Spellcasting in Ex is a fundamental failure on your part worthy of total ostracization as you have fully and whole heatedly proven your inability & lazyness to preform proper research into a topic while simultaneously showcasing your creative imagination to fabricate your desired results without any regard to what is real or not.

Anyone advocating total ostracization of someone just because they're wrong about something should themselves be totally ostracized.

... wait, did I just totally ostracize myself?

Not necessarily. The term "something" is ambiguous. If it means "any thing in particular" -- as most english speakers would believe it does -- then your contention would be a justification for ostracization for only one particular thing. Regardless of its validity, that is not a hypocritical or inconsistent worldview on its face.

And before anyone asks, an active policy of ostracizing people who deliberately ignore self-deprecating humor for the sake of philosophical clarity would be redundant.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on October 03, 2013, 12:15:52 PM
Something weird I noticed in the DMG, specifically the community wealth & population section, page 137. The example for max value of x item you can get based on how much the town has is 30 longswords for a hamlet of 90 people.
1/2 the max spend on 1 item + 1/10 the population.
This means that at any given time, a metropolis with a population of 25001 people, the smallest possible, will have, readily available, 8,333,666 longswords.
(100,000 limit / 2 * 25001 population/10)=50,000*2500.1= 125005000 gp worth on longswords.
Longswords cost 15 gp, and 125005000 gp/15 gp per sword = 8333666.6(repeating) longswords.

Bring this up next time the DM complains about you buying in bulk, or if you want to know why they have over 300 swords per person.

Seriously, what the hell is this.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Demelain on October 03, 2013, 02:23:08 PM
Bring this up next time the DM complains about you buying in bulk, or if you want to know why they have over 300 swords per person.

Seriously, what the hell is this.

America.

Alternatively, many of those longswords could be masterwork, assuming that the two still count as the same item for availability purposes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on October 03, 2013, 03:17:27 PM
America.
America has ~ 90 guns per 100 people. Really high, but still not allowing everyone to dual wield.

Alternatively, many of those longswords could be masterwork, assuming that the two still count as the same item for availability purposes.
Argument for is kinda weak (noticeable difference in quality). And even if they are all masterwork, it's still >15 swords per person.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 03, 2013, 05:07:32 PM
3.0e Psi is listed in that DMG as (su).
3.5e Psi gets that XPH listing as (ps) ... {=(sp)}.
It was pointed out to me early, that it was very uncouth of you youngster, to bring up such things ...  :rolleyes
T.O. then?


Also Mantled Erudite acf, Mantled PsyWar acf, one of the Psions can get Life mantle.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on October 04, 2013, 08:17:18 AM
Alternatively, many of those longswords could be masterwork, assuming that the two still count as the same item for availability purposes.
Argument for is kinda weak (noticeable difference in quality). And even if they are all masterwork, it's still >15 swords per person.

I fail to see the problem here.
(click to show/hide)

On more serious terms... maybe "available" means "after smelting down all the utensils / armour / pots / pans and misc metals, we'd have enough metal to make X-thousand longswords.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on October 04, 2013, 08:23:35 AM
America.
America has ~ 90 guns per 100 people. Really high, but still not allowing everyone to dual wield.

Real hunters use bows.

Hey Ed, did you get anything with your fully automatic assault rifle?
I think I found a hoof... Ooo, and it still has some fur attached!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on October 04, 2013, 01:03:55 PM
America.
America has ~ 90 guns per 100 people. Really high, but still not allowing everyone to dual wield.

Real hunters use bows.

Hey Ed, did you get anything with your fully automatic assault rifle?
I think I found a hoof... Ooo, and it still has some fur attached!

real hunters use their hands (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/oyama.html).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 04, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
real hunters each tofu ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on October 04, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
real hunters each tofu ;)
Humans used to hunt by running down their prey until it collapsed.

Yes, even deer. We hunted deer by having ridiculous CON scores, and Endurance and Run as racial bonus feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 04, 2013, 01:25:18 PM
now the average Con is 2 or 3 :-p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 04, 2013, 02:47:52 PM
Humans used to hunt by running down their prey until it collapsed.

Yes, even deer. We hunted deer by having ridiculous CON scores, and Endurance and Run as racial bonus feats.

Note that while endurance hunting is a thing, there's really no evidence that it was quite so widespread as the people who came up with this theory believe.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on October 04, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
Humans used to hunt by running down their prey until it collapsed.

Yes, even deer. We hunted deer by having ridiculous CON scores, and Endurance and Run as racial bonus feats.

Note that while endurance hunting is a thing, there's really no evidence that it was quite so widespread as the people who came up with this theory believe.

JaronK
Even if only one person did it, it's crazy! Deer are fast.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 04, 2013, 03:03:35 PM
Actually humans can out run almost any animal on the planet.

Think of the turtle vs the hair really. Sure a deer runs fast, but only for a mile before it wants to collapse on the ground. Sure cheetahs run amazingly fast, but they have even less stamina. Over time, humans beat everything. Through in practical context there are still few animals that out pace us even when we start talking about distance in miles. Which is why we tie them to sleds and carriages...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on October 04, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
Found an interesting exotic weapon from Dragonlance - Holy Orders of Ansalon called the Emmide.  Just going to quote and spoiler it all other than the base statistics.

Base stats: Exactly like a quartersatff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#quarterstaff), only it costs 1 gold/steel instead of being free.

(click to show/hide)

Basically it functions as a quarterstaff if you don't have the exotic proficiency with it, but if you are fully proficient it becomes a double reach weapon that can also hit adjacent foes.  Being proficient in it also allows using it for trip attacks.  Besides all of that, it's also a special monk weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 04, 2013, 04:22:32 PM
So, like a Spiked Chain but trading 2d4 damage and +2 disarm for double weapon and special monk weapon?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on October 04, 2013, 05:23:22 PM
2d4 down to 1d6 is only a difference of 1.5 average, if it's only used for one hit.  Using it as a double weapon complicates things more than I want to analyze right now.  Losing the +2 disarm isn't a huge issue.  Treating it as a special monk weapon would be nicer if monks themselves were better, but on the right build it's awesome.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: bobtheapple on October 04, 2013, 11:06:27 PM
Well, to add some fuel to the Ability Focus(Spells) debate (which seems to be as old as the first Monster Manual itself), Ability Focus was updated in MM4 and MM5 to include any special ability that allows a saving throw, not just special attacks.  Regardless of your stance on what type of special ability spells are, I feel its pretty safe to say that the general consensus is that the natural spellcasting abilities of creatures ARE special abilities.  As such, there is no longer any need to reference antiquated monster stat blocks.

The question now comes down to whether you need to specify a particular spell (such as Ability Focus(Finger of Death)) or whether Ability Focus(Spells) gives a +2 save DC to all spells of that creature.  Towards that end, I would like to put forward a few examples:

Mindshredder Zenthal from MM3 has Ability Focus (NOT spell-like ability focus) taken for each of its spell like abilities individually.  Witchknifes (MM3) also have Ability Focus, taken only for one of its SLAs but not the others, as does the Vitreous Drinker from MM4.  Those were the only examples I could find from the books I have at hand of monsters taking ability focus with regards to "lumped" abilities.  What I was really hoping to find was something like a beholder with Ability Focus(Gaze) or some other notable counter-example, so if anyone could come up with a creature like that it would be appreciated. 

Anyway, I think it should be fairly clear that at least as far as SLAs go, one must take Ability Focus for each individual "spell", which is in keeping with the Spell-Like Ability Focus feat.  From there we can use some logical extensions.  Obviously warlocks would have to take ability focus for each "spell" individually; to do otherwise would go against all known examples of AF(SLA), the spirit of feat balancing, and the RAW of SLAF.  Phaerrim and Sharns, who transform their spellcasting ability into SLAs, would also have to take the feat for each spell individually.  Likewise, a wizard who shapeshifts into a phaerrim would have to take the feat individually for each spell.  Following the pattern, it would make sense that such a wizard would have to take the feat individually for each spell when not a phaerrim as well, and by extension, all spellcasters have to take ability focus for each spell individually.  (And yes, this is a hasty generalization, but I can't find any examples except from SLAs.)

To get back on the main topic, I guess I'll dust off an old Fun Find: Widen Supernatural Ability from Tome of Magic is missing a critical line that appears in Enlarge Supernatural Ability: "A continuous use ability (such as a gaze attack) can only be enlarged for 1 round."  This means that any ability widened with Widen Supernatural Ability stays widened for as long as it is active.  There are a whole slew of uses for this, though my particular favorite is for aura-like abilities.  YMMV on how you interpret 'Using' the ability that you are widening, and whether WSuA can be applied to innate supernatural effects (for a random example, an Atropal's negative energy aura, which can never be turned off, thus might be interpreted as never 'usable').
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 05, 2013, 01:04:19 AM
@widen... Nice!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on October 05, 2013, 01:10:19 AM
toward the direction of taking AF once per spell, i would like to restate the silliness of the at will or always on item of Alter Self and the free floating feat that humans get. AF should now cover all your warlock and individual spell needs, assuming you need +2 dc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on October 05, 2013, 01:14:44 AM
toward the direction of taking AF once per spell, i would like to restate the silliness of the at will or always on item of Alter Self and the free floating feat that humans get. AF should now cover all your warlock and individual spell needs, assuming you need +2 dc.

Quote from: srd
1 extra feat at 1st level.
Don't think that's a 'Bonus feat'. Could be wrong, but don't think so.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on October 05, 2013, 01:58:28 AM
real hunters use their hands (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/oyama.html).
Wow nij that site is freaking awesome. (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=24252828982)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 05, 2013, 05:38:35 AM
real hunters use their hands (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/oyama.html).
Wow nij that site is freaking awesome. (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=24252828982)
Sabin suplexed a train (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYhKuzsTq4). Your argument is invalid.   ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on October 05, 2013, 11:21:48 AM
real hunters use their hands (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/oyama.html).
Wow nij that site is freaking awesome. (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=24252828982)
Sabin suplexed a train (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYhKuzsTq4). Your argument is invalid.   ;)
Kefka made Sabin suplex HIMSELF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zExDUoaZPo).  His argument is very valid!   :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 05, 2013, 12:59:34 PM
real hunters use their hands (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/oyama.html).
Wow nij that site is freaking awesome. (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=24252828982)
Sabin suplexed a train (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYhKuzsTq4). Your argument is invalid.   ;)
Kefka made Sabin suplex HIMSELF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zExDUoaZPo).  His argument is very valid!   :P
I think this website deserves its very own thread for further discussion (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/dndnonmajors.html). :P Mods?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 05, 2013, 01:43:33 PM
Well, to add some fuel to the Ability Focus(Spells) debate (which seems to be as old as the first Monster Manual itself), Ability Focus was updated in MM4 and MM5 to include any special ability that allows a saving throw, not just special attacks.
Special Attack is an offensive list of Special Abilities. So anything that is a Special Attack, is also a Special Ability. And if something is incorrectly listed as a Special Attack...

Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Argent Fatalis on October 05, 2013, 05:56:51 PM
Some interesting feats from a 3.0 book, Bastards and Bloodlines most are pretty tame, but some get outright silly.

Lockjaw pg 91
- Get trip as a wolf with your natural bite attack.
- Strangely this is also a Fighter Bonus Feat.
- Isn't a Bloodline feat oddly enough.

Hardy Stock pg 91
- Get 2 + HD bonus hit points each time you take it.
- Fighter Bonus Feat and General Feat.
- Just to make Toughness that much more useless.

Old Blood pg 92
- Chose a race rather other than your own. You count as both.
- General Feat, 1st level only.
- Can be any two races effectively at once, with one feat - oh, and it specifically says it qualifies you for "prestige classes..." and that you "...count as a member of that race." I'm sure this has some uses somewhere, namely for qualifying for prestige classes you'd regularly be ineligible for as well as certain racial feats or bonuses.

Rake pg 93
- When you make a successful grapple check, you can make all your claw attacks at full bonus.
- General Feat, and strangely enough again a Fighter Bonus Feat.
- Would probably be a neat combination with a Feral creature and or Black Blood Cultist build.

So all those were pretty tame, useful here and there, but I think this one certainly could have its uses somewhere along the line...

Lost Tradition pg 91
- "Choose one spellcasting class."
- "You may change which ability score governs spellcasting with that class."
- General Feat, 1st level only.
- Example shows us a cleric taking Charisma instead of Wisdom to base her spells off of and contains this statement, "... and any other calculation regarding cleric spells." and that's after it outright says pretty much everything spell related for the cleric is now based off of Charisma instead of Wisdom.
- This isn't even a Bloodline feat - literally anyone could use this.
- Wait... Wait what? So... I had to check to see if this had any other limitations or stipulations (except that you can't do this again, not that you even could really in the first place), but no, you can base your spellcasting for one casting class off of any ability score. That means you can have absurdities such as Strength based spellcasting, where you outright muscle spells into existence just because you can - but hey, that's not the strangest thing in D&D to date.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on October 05, 2013, 08:02:53 PM
real hunters use their hands (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/oyama.html).
Wow nij that site is freaking awesome. (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=24252828982)
Sabin suplexed a train (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYhKuzsTq4). Your argument is invalid.   ;)
Kefka made Sabin suplex HIMSELF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zExDUoaZPo).  His argument is very valid!   :P
I think this website deserves its very own thread for further discussion (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/dndnonmajors.html)
Topic Created (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11501.0)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 05, 2013, 09:58:03 PM
Old Blood pg 92
- Chose a rather other than your own. You count as both.
- General Feat, 1st level only.
- Can be any two races effectively at once, with one feat - oh, and it specifically says it qualifies you for "prestige classes..." and that you "...count as a member of that race." I'm sure this has some uses somewhere, namely for qualifying for prestige classes you'd regularly be ineligible for as well as certain racial feats or bonuses.
Beholder Mage (or Illithid Savant) here I come! Yeehaw! :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 05, 2013, 10:34:30 PM
Beholder Mage (or Illithid Savant) here I come! Yeehaw! :P
Why is there an "or" in that statement?  :plotting
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 06, 2013, 01:44:53 AM
Screw the Dragonwrought Kobold debate, now anybody can be a True Dragon!

Also, from that same book:
Large:
You are now size Large.  You take a -1 to hit and AC, but you get 10' reach, +10' speed, and double carrying capacity.

Requires a Bloodline from a normally Large or larger race, can be taken after first level.  Does the book ever define what a "bloodline" is, or can you just say "My character is descended from dragons" and call it a day?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Argent Fatalis on October 06, 2013, 08:45:38 AM
Screw the Dragonwrought Kobold debate, now anybody can be a True Dragon!

Also, from that same book:
Large:
You are now size Large.  You take a -1 to hit and AC, but you get 10' reach, +10' speed, and double carrying capacity.

Requires a Bloodline from a normally Large or larger race, can be taken after first level.  Does the book ever define what a "bloodline" is, or can you just say "My character is descended from dragons" and call it a day?

The feats section says these horrifically vague bits about Bloodline feats specifically:

"Bloodline feats are special abilities that only members of certain bloodlines may take."


And...

"In general these represent a character developing some natural ability to a greater degree, perhaps even exceeding the ability of a full-blooded parent."

Page 91 offers us this tidbit as well...

"The expression 'blood' or 'bloodline' always describes the heritage of a pure-blood ancestor; for example, 'elven blood' indicates the half-breed traces ancestry from at least one elven forebear."

Which warrants actually checking the book for what it defines as a "bloodline" specifically...

Page 5 gives us this, its fluff, but intent might be what counts at this point given how vague its been thus far:

(Previously discussing inclusion of this book in a game.) "Someone who is described as 'human' may in fact have elven blood dating back six generations. Allowing players to claim such obscure heritage for their characters opens up many of the options presented in the following chapters without discounting previous histories."

That helps some, but a "Bloodline feat" isn't explicitly mentioned here; this does suggest, however, that a bloodline many generations old, and thus lacking in an actual half-breed from the book, is entirely valid - we might have progress yet.

I'd read more right now, but can't stay conscious enough to do so, but from what I can tell, anyone can take a Bloodline feat more or less, provided you have a valid (DM approved) roleplaying reason and not just because the feat's prerequisites didn't state you needed X or Y.

Strangely enough though, a blurb on page 7 mentions something about "savage humanoid" creatures and feats, but not once is it ever brought up in the feat section itself or the table (Table 4-1: Feats, page 88). It seems as if it is an unfinished concept and that they abandoned it altogether.

Also...

A first level dip in the "Autarkic" PrC can grant immunity to Death Effects. That's nifty.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 06, 2013, 02:16:35 PM
This is the Star Wars d20 guy, yes?


Some interesting feats from a 3.0 book, Bastards and Bloodlines ...


Lost Tradition pg 91
- "Choose one spellcasting class."
- "You may change which ability score governs spellcasting with that class."
- General Feat, 1st level only.
- Example shows us a cleric taking Charisma instead of Wisdom to base her spells off of and contains this statement, "... and any other calculation regarding cleric spells." and that's after it outright says pretty much everything spell related for the cleric is now based off of Charisma instead of Wisdom.
- This isn't even a Bloodline feat - literally anyone could use this.
- Wait... Wait what? So... I had to check to see if this had any other limitations or stipulations (except that you can't do this again, not that you even could really in the first place), but no, you can base your spellcasting for one casting class off of any ability score. That means you can have absurdities such as Strength based spellcasting, where you outright muscle spells into existence just because you can - but hey, that's not the strangest thing in D&D to date.

Gish-apalooza !!
3.0e psionics cries yet one more death.

Dex Cleric Archer ; Str Sorc EK ; Con Druid Totemist.
Would have strange troubles with some otherwise normal PrCs.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Cyrocloud on October 06, 2013, 05:38:08 PM
Nothing like the a Feral  Loth-touched Half Minotaur Incarnate Construct Warforged  Wizard 13/Ab Champ 5/Spellsword 1// Cleric 9/Warhulk 10 with his +32 to STR, before he uses some spell to enlarge himself on top of it to, Giant Size, righteous might maybe...+6 enchant, +4 levels, +5 tome, +24 size, that's what +71 to strength so he'll have what 88 strength as his casting stat, granted this is cheesy as hell and gesalt, but any Caster capable of changing their size or assuming different forms could easily get huge STR scores to pump their DC's and get bonus spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 06, 2013, 06:18:54 PM
The mighty contender of Kord prestige class (Dragon 283, p46) has two cool abilities.  Feat of strength, given at 1st level, lets you use the granted power of the strength domain a number of times per day equal to your “unmodified” str modifier and lets levels in the prestige class stack with cleric levels for the granted power of the strength domain.  Surge of strength, given at 3rd level, makes the granted power of the strength domain last for 1+1d4 rounds.  The domain focus ACF (Dragon 347, p91) for cleric doubles the benefit of a domain but costs you the other one and your spontaneous casting ability.

So, a cleric (domain focus: strength) 8 / mighty contender of Kord 3 / cleric +9 could gain a +40 enhancement bonus to strength for 1+1d4 rounds as a free action some number of times per day.  On the down side, mighty contender of Kord only advances casting at even-numbered levels, so you're behind by two on casting.  Another downside is that you need to stick with cleric or those few prestige classes that stack for domain granted powers.  I can only think of ordained champion (which isn't compatible with Kord) and paragnostic apostle. 

They called me mad … mad!  Well who's mad now‽ 

Also, it was hard to construct that quote since the thread it's in is locked and no longer has quote buttons.  In particular, working out that the time stamp should be 1360220119 was a pain. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on October 06, 2013, 07:59:22 PM
The mighty contender of Kord prestige class (Dragon 283, p46) has two cool abilities.  Feat of strength, given at 1st level, lets you use the granted power of the strength domain a number of times per day equal to your “unmodified” str modifier and lets levels in the prestige class stack with cleric levels for the granted power of the strength domain.  Surge of strength, given at 3rd level, makes the granted power of the strength domain last for 1+1d4 rounds.  The domain focus ACF (Dragon 347, p91) for cleric doubles the benefit of a domain but costs you the other one and your spontaneous casting ability.

So, a cleric (domain focus: strength) 8 / mighty contender of Kord 3 / cleric +9 could gain a +40 enhancement bonus to strength for 1+1d4 rounds as a free action some number of times per day.  On the down side, mighty contender of Kord only advances casting at even-numbered levels, so you're behind by two on casting.  Another downside is that you need to stick with cleric or those few prestige classes that stack for domain granted powers.  I can only think of ordained champion (which isn't compatible with Kord) and paragnostic apostle. 

They called me mad … mad!  Well who's mad now‽ 

Also, it was hard to construct that quote since the thread it's in is locked and no longer has quote buttons.  In particular, working out that the time stamp should be 1360220119 was a pain.

bloodlines?

heirophant / spell power?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 06, 2013, 09:20:54 PM
Nothing like the a Feral  Loth-touched Half Minotaur Incarnate Construct Warforged  Wizard 13/Ab Champ 5/Spellsword 1// Cleric 9/Warhulk 10 with his +32 to STR, before he uses some spell to enlarge himself on top of it to, Giant Size, righteous might maybe...+6 enchant, +4 levels, +5 tome, +24 size, that's what +71 to strength so he'll have what 88 strength as his casting stat, granted this is cheesy as hell and gesalt, but any Caster capable of changing their size or assuming different forms could easily get huge STR scores to pump their DC's and get bonus spells.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly where my head went, as well. Don't forget Necrotic Empowerment! :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Vampireshado on October 06, 2013, 09:51:12 PM
No, no, no. Festering anger + cancer Mage. Any be a gnome just cause. Then you just sit. You just sit and be the most patient, angry lil guy in the whole world. You become so angrily patient that your power becomes cosmically phenomenal. Beyond, of course, what it was already.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 07, 2013, 12:56:49 PM
Nothing like the a Feral  Loth-touched Half Minotaur Incarnate Construct Warforged  Wizard 13/Ab Champ 5/Spellsword 1// Cleric 9/Warhulk 10 with his +32 to STR, before he uses some spell to enlarge himself on top of it to, Giant Size, righteous might maybe...+6 enchant, +4 levels, +5 tome, +24 size, that's what +71 to strength so he'll have what 88 strength as his casting stat, granted this is cheesy as hell and gesalt, but any Caster capable of changing their size or assuming different forms could easily get huge STR scores to pump their DC's and get bonus spells.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly where my head went, as well. Don't forget Necrotic Empowerment! :P
I like, don't understand this series of posts.

First of all, Necromantic Empowerment doesn't give a bonus to Strength. Seconded, WotC official let's you have nearly 70 Charisma without Race/Class being factored, 2nd Party level kicks this up to an easy 82ish. TO insane Incarnate Construct shenanigans and Gestated comes up with an 88? Ok...

No, no, no. Festering anger + cancer Mage. Any be a gnome just cause. Then you just sit. You just sit and be the most patient, angry lil guy in the whole world. You become so angrily patient that your power becomes cosmically phenomenal. Beyond, of course, what it was already.
Much better.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 07, 2013, 05:49:46 PM
... and Shambling Mound or Zegulak (?) cheese.



Pounce Barb 1 / Dungeoncrasher 6
is now a viable caster build lead-in.  Ha.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 07, 2013, 08:14:05 PM
All the physical stats can go infinite with only templates.

this means, with Fist of the Forest 1, normal/touch/ff AC, saves (Steadfast Determination for Will, and initiative infinite

also, you can have infinite attacks
----
here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040904a) is a 8ecl PC with 10 HD
----
someone previously mentioned gaining the template multiple times and I think cited the WotC site. Where was that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 08, 2013, 07:25:50 PM
Here's a "fun find"; by a strict reading, a Crusader's delayed damage pool does not actually delay damage. It says that "any hit point damage you take is added to your delayed damage pool", and mention nothing about reducing the amount of damage you take that round.

In other words, if you have Steely Resolve 10 and are hit by an attack that deals 20 damage, you take 20 damage, set the pool to 10, and then take 10 damage next round as the pool empties.

Now, the rest of the ability indicates that the RAI is that the damage is delayed (including the example given, which says that the damage is "shifted" into the pool), but the RAW makes me go wha?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 08, 2013, 07:55:16 PM
I just realized something about this feat from Dragon 359 (page 125). 

Quote
NAME OF THE MAGE

By plumbing the depths of eldritch knowledge, you have discovered dire secrets no mortal was ever meant to know.

Prerequisites: arcane caster level 20th.

Benefit: Anyone other than you who speaks your name becomes greatly unnerved, as are all who hear it (other than you). If the creature who speaks your name has as many or more Hit Dice as you, he is shaken for 3 rounds (no save); if he has fewer Hit Dice than you, he is frightened for 1d4+1 rounds (no save). Creatures who hear your name must make a Will save (DC 10 + your arcana spellcasting level + your Cha bonus) or become frightened for 3 rounds. Even those who succeed on the saving throw are shaken for 1 round. Neither your presence nor knowledge of you has any effect on this ability. Your name itself has gained an inherent power all its own.

This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

As long as someone in the campaign setting has taken that feat, you can say his name and automatically render everyone around you shaken.  Also, there's nothing stopping you from saying the name again for another shot at frightened. 

By speaking the name, you'll be frightened yourself, but immunity to fear takes care of that. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 08, 2013, 08:00:04 PM
You know what you do with that?

You play a Wizard. And, as part of your character's personality, throw in a ton of alternate names (pretty much every common name in the setting.)

Then watch society fall apart because no-one can say anyone's name. You can also work it out with somehow preserving a bajillion clones of yourself that all have different names.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 08, 2013, 08:01:57 PM
Heck with that, I'm renaming myself "Boo" before taking that feat.  Or if I'm really being cruel, I'll go with "and".

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on October 08, 2013, 08:22:04 PM
Just watch out for lv20 Monks of the Healing Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-healing-hand).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 08, 2013, 09:17:59 PM
Heck with that, I'm renaming myself "Boo" before taking that feat.  Or if I'm really being cruel, I'll go with "and".

JaronK

How about 'is'?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on October 08, 2013, 11:08:11 PM
or, depending on your culture, 'eh', or even just 'e'.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 08, 2013, 11:23:00 PM
I totally love that section in Dr359

Bestow Curse, say my name at very awkward times?

Even meaner? Have your alternate names the names of a bunch of gods. Then every time a clergyman prays, they need to make ~100 saves vs fear
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 09, 2013, 10:23:25 AM
I just realized something about this feat from Dragon 359 (page 125). 

Quote
NAME OF THE MAGE
Did anyone else think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKrCs1rFRI)? :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Bauglir on October 09, 2013, 11:50:00 AM
That means you can have absurdities such as Strength based spellcasting, where you outright muscle spells into existence just because you can - but hey, that's not the strangest thing in D&D to date.
I'm not the only one who thought of Muscle Wizards (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RosIoQisA)?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 09, 2013, 12:40:51 PM
That means you can have absurdities such as Strength based spellcasting, where you outright muscle spells into existence just because you can - but hey, that's not the strangest thing in D&D to date.
I'm not the only one who thought of Muscle Wizards (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RosIoQisA)?
Is that a South Park clip?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 09, 2013, 01:59:17 PM
No, that's just some 4chan crap made into a video.

I think Muscle Wizard roots back to 3.0's Psionics. Where you literally had Powers based off your Strength Score. 4chan ran with things at some point and it became a meme.

Edit - Fullmetal Alchemist has an entire character based on the ideals of it. It's where the mustached look comes from.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Bauglir on October 09, 2013, 03:20:07 PM
SorO's words are all correct, to the best of my knowledge.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 09, 2013, 06:30:50 PM
<snip>  " ... Louis Armstrong ... "


jazz snob sigh  :pout
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on October 09, 2013, 11:32:48 PM
No, that's just some 4chan crap made into a video.

I think Muscle Wizard roots back to 3.0's Psionics. Where you literally had Powers based off your Strength Score. 4chan ran with things at some point and it became a meme.

Edit - Fullmetal Alchemist has an entire character based on the ideals of it. It's where the mustached look comes from.
(click to show/hide)

i remember reading a series where one of the characters had a seemingly str/con based magical ability.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 09, 2013, 11:50:15 PM
Do Muscle Wizards use cabers as wands and redwoods as staffs?  Do they carve their spells into mountains using their fingernail?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 10, 2013, 01:16:16 AM
It strikes me that the metallic dragon domain (Dragon 344, p107) is really good at 1st level.  It's granted power is DR 1/adamantine, which improves by +1 per 5 cleric levels. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 10, 2013, 02:25:34 AM
*bump*
someone previously mentioned gaining the template multiple times and I think cited the WotC site. Where was that?

also, there was something that came up with really strange die, like a d28 or something. What was this?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on October 10, 2013, 11:06:22 AM
someone previously mentioned gaining the template multiple times and I think cited the WotC site. Where was that?
The relevant line is on whichever page has the chimeric creature template. Can't remember which one it is. The line has words to the effect of "as long as the creature still qualifies, you can take the template again."

no clue for the d28 one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on October 10, 2013, 11:38:22 AM
Indeed, ask and ye shall receive: Opponents with lots of heads (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070608a) states:
Quote from: Chimeric Chimera
Okay, so applying the chimeric template from Monster Manual II to a chimera may seem odd, but it's perfectly legal. You can add a template more than once to the same creature as long as it continues to qualify. Some serious magical genetic experimentation is required, so this might well be a unique creature.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on October 10, 2013, 11:40:54 AM
Do Muscle Wizards use cabers as wands and redwoods as staffs?  Do they carve their spells into mountains using their fingernail?
They cast one spell. And that spell is FIST.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 10, 2013, 11:46:54 AM
Besides the earlier psionics trick, it's suprising how interesting that FoB transfer SLA ability is. For example, be a warlock with a two level dip in FoB and now you can share all of your all-day invocations with all your party members for free  :drool. This thread  (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303147) has a bunch more stuff on the PRC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 10, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
@ jojo and Ith... Thanks!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 10, 2013, 01:41:55 PM
Indeed, ask and ye shall receive: Opponents with lots of heads (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070608a) states:
Quote from: Chimeric Chimera
Okay, so applying the chimeric template from Monster Manual II to a chimera may seem odd, but it's perfectly legal. You can add a template more than once to the same creature as long as it continues to qualify. Some serious magical genetic experimentation is required, so this might well be a unique creature.
Oh yeah, Robert Wiese's pink slip. The Chimeric Template cannot be applied to a Magical Beast to begin with ;)

P.S. For those of you looking at: "Since the sample chimeric creature uses a magical beast as the base creature, the template must apply to magical beasts" it's wrong for two reasons. First is example is not rules (abjuration champion & mage armor anyone?), and the Chimeric Template is 3.0 Rules. The example creature's, an Ankheg, Type is the depreciated Beast Type in the 3.0 Rule Set. So basically the guy incorrectly handled a 3.0<->3.5 Update and then opposed rules. I wouldn't place enough value in his statement to trump Libris Mortis even if he slipped me a hundred bucks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Vampireshado on October 10, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
There are some fun finds in the Ravenloft material.

From Van Richten's Arsenal:

The viper bite weapon mod allows administration of a liquid with a hit. Specifically, if you beat an opponent's touch AC then the liquid splashes out on the target and on all adjacent squares. This occurs even if you wouldn't actually hit your target with your attack. If you beat their full AC it only affects the target. It specifically states that you can load any kind of liquid into the weapon, but when you hit it's treated as if you had hit them with a flask of the liquid, which somewhat limits it's usefulness.

The spell insight grants a +10 insight bonus to spot and search checks for 1 round/level. It's a second level spell.

The spell awaken guilt is a third level spell that renders the target flat footed and unable to take any actions at all for 1d6 minutes. It's touch range, and mind affecting, and can also change your alignment to the opposite of what it was? But this is left up to the DM.

The deconstruct spell lowers a construct's DR by ten points.

The diminish undead spell lowers an undead's turn resistance by 3.

The eternal slumber spell, among other things, removes a lich from it's body.

The shackle spell paralyses (sort of) a creature with no save. 3rd level spell.

The epiphany spell allows another saving throw against an evil spell or profane effect. I have no idea what constitutes a "profane effect."

The binding weapon enhancement is a +3 weapon ability that can be applied to a slashing or piercing metal weapon. It turns non-elemental/fey/outsider/incorporeal creatures into ghosts when you kill them with the weapon.

The heartseeker weapon enhancement is a +5 weapon ability that instantly kills the target on a critical hit. It has a short and vague list of immune creatures, and outsiders get a fortitude save, but everyone else is insta dead.

The ivory amulet of the beast gives you the lycanthrope template while worn.

A ring of reversion will return anything to it's original body with no save. The body must be within 50 miles.

A soul searcher medallion gives true seeing, as well as revealing the true alignment, active curses, illusions, shape shifting, magical dweomers, and so forth? (Whatever that means).

A bed of meditation can give an "effective" +10 bonus to intelligence and wisdom for one hour per use.

A censor of warding prevents undead with SR less than 16 from entering a structure. Why? No idea.

The Medallion of Set gives any character a dread familiar. It's like a familiar, but way too loyal.

Catalytic Poison alters a poison to affect only one creature.

Corporeal Purgative can transfer all diseases from one target to another.

Spiritual Purgative does the same, but with curses.

Essential Cogulant stores the soul of a dying or recently dead creature and allows it to be placed into another body.

A philosophical child is a nearly exact copy of any creature that you take a tissue sample from. Under your control entirely. Forever. Broken broken broken.

Enlightened child is the same thing, but gives three bonus abilities off of a list that includes immortality, the ability to liquefy itself, and EX alter self at will.

The portents feat grants a free augury once per day. The only requirement is a 15+ wisdom score.

The pistoleer prestige class grants the ability to shoot around cover with gunpowder weapons.

From Van Richten's guide to the walking dead:

The composite walking dead template allows combining some abilities from a couple of creatures onto another.

It has a ritual section that states if an hour long ritual (with apparently no cost) is conducted before casting animate dead, then the undead gains 1d4+1 intelligence and +1 turn resistance. This intelligence increases by 2 per century the undead lives, to a maximum of +6 from three centuries.

The reign undead skill allows you to make a check to control uncontrolled mindless undead.

The bind undead feats allow you to spend Xp to permanently bind undead to your will, while removing them from your animation and/or control pool.

The bind salience feat to permanently add salient abilities to undead. Some of the salient abilities are pretty wild. For instance, leaping grants an unnamed +30 bonus to jump checks, and doubles jumping distance. Deathless warrior grants nigh immunity to damage. Other near abilities include spawn creation and telepathy. Someone could honestly write an entire handbook just on salient abilities.

From champions of darkness:

The manipulator prestige class grants a funny bardic music ability based off of diplomacy. And you gain it all at first level.

The mesmerist prestige class has the ability to lower will saves against their hypnotisms. This effect apparently lasts forever and stacks.

The energy drain feat allows you to spend a turn attempt to drain a number of levels or hit dice equal to you charisma modifier. This can be used after you succeed on any melee touch attack.

The ethereal touch feat lets you touch and harm incorporeal creatures. It also has an odd clause about allowing the character to possess the corrupting touch ability of a ghost, but it doesn't grant it. So I guess it's nice if you were prohibited from having that ability for some reason.

There is another version of the extra domain feat.

The feral rearing feat gives you the animal type instead of whatever type you had before. I'm sure this opens up tons of cheese. At the very least, it allows you to be a target for awaken animal. It also gives some other benefits and makes you illiterate.

The hollow feat makes you soulless, which, among other things, makes you immune to energy drain, magic jar, trap the soul, malevolence, and all other forms of possession.

The life force sacrificing feat allows you to damage yourself in order to swap out your prepared spells for any other spell that you could prepare. The damage is small, but it can't be healed by magical means.

From heroes of light:

The kiss of dawn feat refreshes all of your spells every day at dawn. Apparently regardless of if you rested or not.

The wealth feat gives you gold each month. The amount is entirely insignificant, but it's sort of unique that it's a feat that gives you a steady income for doing nothing.

From player's guide to ravenloft:

The ghostsight feat grants permanent see ethereal, but without the invisibility piercing part.

The curse rules are nasty. They can be used by any character, but require a charisma check to take effect. The save doc can get really high, and it doesn't require line of sight or line of effect. It seems like it has infinite range. Also, as an amusing side note, it doesn't seem to say what sort of save the target gets. Out of the book curses include -8 to an ability score, instant death, permanent transformation into a monster (could be a blessing), and lycanthropy.

Whew. This was a much longer post than I intended. I just kept running into more things. I'm sure I missed a bunch, but I will post them as I find them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 11, 2013, 01:06:54 AM
Is Ravenloft information available anywhere? I can't find it on Dndtools and google searches pretty much come up blank but I would love to find more info on a lot of these items and classes, feats, etc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Vampireshado on October 11, 2013, 08:23:26 AM
I'm reading out of the books, and am unaware of any online locations to find the information, but I did find something else that's pretty neat.

In player's guide to ravenloft there are rules for the path of corruption. For committing certain evil is acts, or just being an all around ass the dark powers give you some super good bonuses. You also get a curse each time this happens, but many curses have no effect at all, or are actually beneficial. Want some daily sla's? Want +20 to an ability score? Tow of speed increases? Or free feats? Do some evil deeds. Or just commune with the dark powers and ask nicely. The only downside is that if you get to the end of the path the dark powers permanently trap you in your own domain in ravenloft. You get your own domain, which is cool, but you can't leave it, which is bad. You can, however, trap other people there with you. And the only way for them to get out is to kill you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 11, 2013, 10:29:47 AM
The paths of corruption have always been my favorite element of Ravenloft.

EDIT: There are a bunch of fun feats in the Ravenloft Player's Guide.

Cold One requires that you have lost at least one level to energy drain. In exchange, mindless undead ignore you, intelligent undead have to make a DC 13 Wisdom check to notice that you're not undead, and you bleed out at half the normal rate. A bit more flavorful than Lichloved, I think.

Haunted gives you a geist friend (essentially, think a ghost that can't do anything in combat.) Only people who can see ethereal creatures can see it; you can take 1 point of Charisma damage to get a reroll on all Search, Spot, and Listen checks for an indefinite amount of time, and you can ask the geist if they saw anything while you were asleep or something. They immediately demanifest if another intelligent living creature enters the scene. Also known as "a great way to know if your secret hidey-hole has been compromised."

Lunatic gives a variable bonus to Fortitude and Reflex saves, attack rolls, and charisma skill checks based on the moon's phase. It's a +1 to each if the moon is more than half full, and a +2 to each in the 3-night period of the full moon. You get a -2 to those things on the full moon, though. You get a penalty/bonus to Will Saves equal to the inverse of the bonus or penalty. For those of you who want to simulate being a lycanthrope without taking the template.

Redhead gives you either 1 1st level or 2 0th level Druid spells as 1/day SLAs, with a CL equal to your ECL. It must be taken at 1st level, but since it is really good at that level...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Meiliken on October 11, 2013, 11:14:12 AM
I remember there being a sort of moss that grows in heavily magical areas.  The moss supposedly heals you(both curing and healing spells) if you sleep on it for 8 hours among other effects.  I cannot remember where I saw it.  Been pouring over books and dragon magazines and can't find it.  Any help in finding it would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nanshork on October 11, 2013, 12:52:38 PM
I remember there being a sort of moss that grows in heavily magical areas.  The moss supposedly heals you(both curing and healing spells) if you sleep on it for 8 hours among other effects.  I cannot remember where I saw it.  Been pouring over books and dragon magazines and can't find it.  Any help in finding it would be much appreciated.

That sounds like something out of an adventure I played through the beginning of once.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Dkonen on October 11, 2013, 01:16:57 PM
It from Forgotten Realms, it's in 2ed Myth Drannor. I think it's called blueglow moss, and grows only in very magically enhanced parts of the ruins.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Meiliken on October 11, 2013, 04:16:52 PM
It from Forgotten Realms, it's in 2ed Myth Drannor. I think it's called blueglow moss, and grows only in very magically enhanced parts of the ruins.

Thank you very much.  That's what I was looking for.  Always thought it would be cool if a hospital was made with all the beds being Blueglow moss.  Now that's a successful hospital! :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 12, 2013, 12:35:12 AM
Pools of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor, 3.0 product, page 77.  It heals 1d4 damage an hour, and after 6: Remove Disease, Darkvision at will, levitate self (nekkid, extra weight for extra time, max 1000lbs.) at will, detect poison at will, +2 to some saves and after 12 hours regenerate.  Blueglow moss expressly only exists in a Mythal, as do its abilities.

From the same adventure is the Mythal Ghost (pg 84).  Spend 9 days in Myth Drannor, get 9 years of the Mythal Ghost template.  Which is like minor Astral Projection shenanigans for melee types.  You basically create a flying, mute double that also happens to be immune to cold, fire mind effects, negative energy and level draining while you sit around helpless.  But if your double dies you need to reacquire the template.

And both of those are effects of the same epic spell.

Spectral Blade (pg 79) is interesting 10k for at will chill touch.  Most of the rest of the items were republished since.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: widow on October 12, 2013, 01:29:17 AM
If you are going Third party I always thought the "Absorb Familiar" feat from Races of Renown-Plot & Poision, A guidebook to Drow was pretty funny with an item familiar. 

You absorb your familiar into your body, giving you greater power.
Prerequisite: Must have a familiar.
Benefit: Your familiar becomes a part of you, totally subsumed into your
being. Any numerical special benefit your familiar grants you (such as the +2
bonus on Move Silently checks from a cat familiar) is doubled. These benefits
become permanent extraordinary abilities
. You lose access to the familiar's
other abilities, and you may never again take a familiar. If your familiar does
not grant you a numerical bonus, this feat grants no benefit.
This feat may be chosen as a wizard bonus feat.

Really funny with an Item Familiar from Unearthed arcania.  A +6 to all stats belt becomes a +12 and works in anti-magic clouds.  I am sure there is a pile of abilities that would be quite fun doubled and ex in nature.  +10% experience points sounds like a numerical bonus to me.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on October 12, 2013, 08:38:51 AM
Spectral Blade (pg 79) is interesting 10k for at will chill touch.  Most of the rest of the items were republished since.
The 3.5 Spectral Dagger is 6k in the MIC, and the 3.0 version was reprinted in Magic of Faerun. Chill touch in place of an attack and letting you apply dagger-based feats/abilities is also quite a bit better than at-will.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 12, 2013, 02:41:43 PM
If you are going Third party I always thought the "Absorb Familiar" feat from Races of Renown-Plot & Poision, A guidebook to Drow was pretty funny with an item familiar. 

You absorb your familiar into your body, giving you greater power.
Prerequisite: Must have a familiar.
Benefit: Your familiar becomes a part of you, totally subsumed into your
being. Any numerical special benefit your familiar grants you (such as the +2
bonus on Move Silently checks from a cat familiar) is doubled. These benefits
become permanent extraordinary abilities
. You lose access to the familiar's
other abilities, and you may never again take a familiar. If your familiar does
not grant you a numerical bonus, this feat grants no benefit.
This feat may be chosen as a wizard bonus feat.

Really funny with an Item Familiar from Unearthed arcania.  A +6 to all stats belt becomes a +12 and works in anti-magic clouds.  I am sure there is a pile of abilities that would be quite fun doubled and ex in nature.  +10% experience points sounds like a numerical bonus to me.

wow  :twitch

Throw in a Familiar based lesser Supermount !

edit --- OH and what happens when you target your familiar with Buff spells ?!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 12, 2013, 05:13:21 PM
edit --- OH and what happens when you target your familiar with Buff spells ?!
"You lose access to the familiar's other abilities,"

Share Spells is one such Familiar Ability...
And you know Stacking rules well enough to answer that question anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 12, 2013, 07:02:26 PM
Even without Item Familiar cheese, Hummingbird or Octopus would be pretty decent. Be a Psionic race so you can take a Psicrystal if you still want to abuse Share Spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 12, 2013, 08:31:03 PM
Spectral Blade (pg 79) is interesting 10k for at will chill touch.  Most of the rest of the items were republished since.
The 3.5 Spectral Dagger is 6k in the MIC, and the 3.0 version was reprinted in Magic of Faerun. Chill touch in place of an attack and letting you apply dagger-based feats/abilities is also quite a bit better than at-will.
Well my memory clearly failed me.  I shall have it flogged.



As to the familiar- Elven Generalist, double those bonuses again.  Hummingbird for +12 initiative sounds fun.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 14, 2013, 10:01:53 PM
It occurs to me that straight-classed level 12 Warlocks are pretty much the only class besides wizard that can take full advantage of the Fleshwarper PRC. A wizard is still much more powerful of course but the Warlocks aren't wasting any fleshwarper class features either.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 15, 2013, 05:15:01 AM
So, I found a bunch of Ravenloft books online and have just started reading through them. Already found a few interesting things.

Half-Vistani: +2 Wis, -2 Cha. +2 Wilderness Survival, despite being supposedly updated to 3.5, should probably be Survival. The bonus increases to +4 when making fires. During a full moon must make a DC 15 Will Save or run wild under the full moon.

Now the fun part. Depending on their Vistani parents tribe, they receive a bonus of some type. Here are the tribal bonuses.

Canjar: +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft checks.
This bonus rises to +4 when attempting to learn new
spells. Favored Class: Wizard.
Corvara: +2 racial bonus on Open Lock and
Sense Motive checks. Favored Class: Rogue.
Equaar: +2 racial bonus on Handle Animal
and Ride checks. Favored Class: Ranger.
Kamii: +2 racial bonus on any metal-based
Craft checks (e.g., blacksmithing) With a successful
Appraise check, Kamii can identify metals and
determine where any metal item originated. Favored
Class: Rogue.
Naiat: +2 racial bonus on Perform checks.
Naiat have a base Outcast Rating of 0. Favored
Class: Bard.
Vatmska: +2 racial bonus on Heal and Profession
(herbalism) checks. Favored Class: Cleric.
Zarovan: Racial bonus of (Idl0-ld4) to initiative.
Roll at the start of each encounter. Favored
Class: Sorcerer.

Zarovan get a potentially HUGE Bonus to Initiative. Wonky since it is anywhere from a -3 to a +9, but that could still be pretty interesting.

Classes:

Barbarian Rage: This operates as stated in the
Player's Handbook. However, barbarians enjoy an
additional +4 bonus to Fear, Horror, and Madness
checks while enraged. Barbarians not currently in
the throes of rage when one of these checks arises
do not gain the +4 bonus.

Tales of Death and Madness
At the DM's discretion, an evil bard can
perform so chillingly (such as singing a dirge,
enacting a play of foul murder, or telling a tale
about one man's descent into corruption) that
he frightens his audience. If the bard succeeds
by 10 or more on his Perform check, members
of; the audience are required to make a Fear
check

• Bonus Feats: Fighters add Back to the Wall,
Courage, Dead Man Walking, and Jaded to their
list of possible bonus feats.

Back to the Wall is the only one that is decent. And even then, it is kinda meh.
Back to the Wall [General]
You are at your best when your situation is at
its worst. The minions of evil may overwhelm
you, but the gods be damned if you don't take a
few of them down with you.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls
and Armor Class when you are at one quarter or
less of your maximum hit points.

Divine Grace: The paladin's noble spirit
bleeds out into the world around her, subconsciously
placing virtuous minds at ease and
sinister minds on edge. The paladin can apply her
divine grace bonus when attempting to improve
the reactions of good NPCs (effectively allowing
her to count her Charisma bonus twice). However,
this modifier counts as a penalty when attempting
to improve the reactions of evil NPCs (effectively
negating the paladin's Charisma bonus). Note also
that the divine grace bonus applies to all Fear,
Horror, and Madness saves.

Aura of Courage: Although the Ravenloft
paladin remains immune to magical fear, she is not
immune to "natural" Fear saves, which are the
product of her own sense of survival. (In a sense,
playing a PC immune to fear in a horror campaign
is simply missing out on the point.) Instead, the
paladin receives the Courage feat for free at 2nd
level.

Special Mount: A paladin's special mount is
a dread companion. See the "Dread Companions"
sidebar. In Spoiler. It is long.

(click to show/hide)
SKILLS:

Bluff
(click to show/hide)

Craft now has a Gunsmithing and Clockmaking option.

New Skill
Hypnosis:
(click to show/hide)

Feats: Some interesting options.

Ghostsight
(click to show/hide)

Haunted:
(click to show/hide)

Redheaded:
(click to show/hide)

Reincarnated:
(click to show/hide)

New Cleric Domains
(click to show/hide)

Interesting rule regarding certain items as improvised weapons:
Death by Pitchfork
The minions of darkness have a habit of
striking when heroes are ill prepared to face
them. All too often, heroes may be forced to
defend themselves with common objects.
Furthermore, many characters who heroes
encounter in Ravenloft, from mobs of irate
villagers to thieving goblinfolk, are more
likely to wield such weapons of opportunity
than true military arms.
Tool-grade weapons are similar to the
military-grade weapons listed in the Player's
Handbook. Characters wielding such items
suffer a -1 penalty to attack and damage
rolls, however. The tools listed below are
considered simple weapons. No character
can be proficient with an item that lacks an
obvious grip or handle, such as a wooden
plank. Listed below are several tool-grade
weapons and the military-grade weapons
they resemble.
Axe: Battleaxe
Crowbar: Light Mace
Flail, Grain: Light Flail
Gaff: Light Pick
Hammer: Light Hammer
Hatchet: Handaxe
Hoe:* Quarterstaff
Machete: Scimitar
Pick: Heavy Pick
Pitchfork: Trident
Poker, Fireplace: Halfspear
Scythe: Scythe
Shovel:* Quarterstaff
Sickle: Sickle
Sledge: Warhammer
* Unlike a quarterstaff, these tools are
not double weapons.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Bauglir on October 15, 2013, 10:16:08 AM
Who actually has the transformation ability for a Changeling Wizard's familiar?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 15, 2013, 01:20:52 PM
Yet more from Ravenloft:

Nine Lives is a general feat that allows you to take 2 points of Cha drain to reroll a Fortitude or Reflex save that would reduce you to -10 or fewer hit points. You may do so repeatedly for the same save, but may only ever make a number of such rerolls equal to your Cha score at the time you took the feat at character creation.

Portents also a general feat, allows you as a Standard Action, to use Augury, as a sorcerer of you character level. No components required. Can be used 1/day, but requires you to get 8 hours of sleep as a spellcaster. It is a Supernatural ability, that does not provoke AoOs, though it can be disrupted. Requires a Wisdom 15+, but hey, it is Augury as a Su, that takes a STANDARD action rather than 1 minute. Seems like this could be abused in some way. If not, it is still pretty cool and flavorful.

Unseen: Another General feat. Requires Skill Focus Bluff and Hide. As a Free Action, you can become INVISIBLE. You break the invisibility if you take ANY action, including talking or moving. But that is sort of cool.

The Crypt Raider has a nifty ability at 1st level of the PrC, to pick items up as a Free Action. Sure that could be used somehow.

Also the Dirgist PrC gets some interesting Bardic music abilities based on Ranks in Perform and Intimidate, however they get the abilities at 1st level but can't use them until they have the requisite ranks. Might be an okay 1 level dip. Also get an ability to know secrets about dead or undead related topics. Similar to Bardic Knowledge, but can be used to get information that no living source could have, and mimic Speak with Dead.

The Guardian Seeker is a Divination specialist for either Divine or Arcane, who gets to add +1 on Odd Levels to their Will Save vs Mind Affecting Effects. Also gets a Bardic Knowledge ability related to Evil Intelligent items or Artifacts. And if on a quest directly related to destroying such, gets +1 Morale bonus to attack, damage, skills, and saves, becomes +3 at 6, +5 at 10th, and advances casting at every level. Can also recognize evil intelligent items or artifacts with a Spellcraft check. Could All of that comes at 1st or 2nd level, so could make an okay dip.

Knight of Shadows is a Full BAB PrC that gets some casting of their own(Divine Wis Based.). Sacred Bonus to Diplomacy when dealing with good aligned creatures that starts at +1 at 1st, then goes up by 1 at each Odd Level. Also gets a +1 bonus to attacks, saves and skills vs evil creatures if an intelligent good aligned creature is in danger, within line of sight. This boosts to +2 at 5th, +3 at 10th.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Unbeliever on October 15, 2013, 02:05:43 PM
Spectral Blade (pg 79) is interesting 10k for at will chill touch.  Most of the rest of the items were republished since.
The 3.5 Spectral Dagger is 6k in the MIC, and the 3.0 version was reprinted in Magic of Faerun. Chill touch in place of an attack and letting you apply dagger-based feats/abilities is also quite a bit better than at-will.
I've always wondered about this:  do targets gain SR vs. the Spectral Dagger's attack? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 15, 2013, 02:21:31 PM
Nine Lives is a general feat that allows you to take 2 points of Cha drain to reroll a Fortitude or Reflex save that would reduce you to -10 or fewer hit points. You may do so repeatedly for the same save, but may only ever make a number of such rerolls equal to your Cha score at the time you took the feat at character creation.

Dark Chaos Shuffle approves.

Quote
Portents also a general feat, allows you as a Standard Action, to use Augury, as a sorcerer of you character level. No components required. Can be used 1/day, but requires you to get 8 hours of sleep as a spellcaster. It is a Supernatural ability, that does not provoke AoOs, though it can be disrupted. Requires a Wisdom 15+, but hey, it is Augury as a Su, that takes a STANDARD action rather than 1 minute. Seems like this could be abused in some way. If not, it is still pretty cool and flavorful.

The usual Augury abuse involves repeated castings before drawing from a Deck of Many Things, so I'm not sure what sneakiness you can really get away with here.

Quote
Unseen: Another General feat. Requires Skill Focus Bluff and Hide. As a Free Action, you can become INVISIBLE. You break the invisibility if you take ANY action, including talking or moving. But that is sort of cool.

Now that's a fun stealther feat!  I assume you can at least make Spot Checks?

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 15, 2013, 02:29:40 PM
It says AS THE SPELL for that feat. Here is the exact wording:

Unseen [General]
Provided you remain perfectly still you can hide in plain sight. Through some perplexing trick of the light or the mind, other creatures seem to simply overlook you.
Prerequisites:

Skill Focus Bluff, Skill Focus Hide.

Benefit: Whenever you are not being observed, you can conceal yourself as a free action, making yourself invisible as though effected by the spell Invisibility. You can take no actions while concealed, including moving or talking. The effect lasts as long as you take no actions. This is an extraordinary ability, though See Invisibility, True Sight, and similar spells will reveal your presence. In all other respects this ability it is treated as a glamer, and may be disbelieved.

So. Somehow it acts like a spell. But isn't a spell. And can be used in an Anti-Magic Field. Very Interesting.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 15, 2013, 03:03:54 PM
Portents also a general feat, allows you as a Standard Action, to use Augury, as a sorcerer of you character level.

Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 15, 2013, 04:39:56 PM
raw Ardent likes the Half-Vistani, mostly for dual casting.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on October 16, 2013, 12:09:08 AM
In all other respects this ability it is treated as a glamer, and may be disbelieved.

How do you disbelieve invisibility?  :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 16, 2013, 12:25:15 AM
You run into the invisible guy, thus triggering the will save.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on October 16, 2013, 01:14:52 AM
Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day.
They're also a LA +0 giant, and so allow for a LA +0 Primordial Giant character.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 16, 2013, 02:11:52 AM
Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day.
They're also a LA +0 giant, and so allow for a LA +0 Primordial Giant character.

Actually, despite being much more giant blooded than the Half-Giant, they are in fact humanoids.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 16, 2013, 02:55:02 PM
Is there an online source for the Menta Cyclopean?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 16, 2013, 05:38:55 PM
It says AS THE SPELL for that feat. Here is the exact wording:

Unseen [General]
Provided you remain perfectly still you can hide in plain sight. Through some perplexing trick of the light or the mind, other creatures seem to simply overlook you.
Prerequisites:

Skill Focus Bluff, Skill Focus Hide.

Benefit: Whenever you are not being observed, you can conceal yourself as a free action, making yourself invisible as though effected by the spell Invisibility. You can take no actions while concealed, including moving or talking. The effect lasts as long as you take no actions. This is an extraordinary ability, though See Invisibility, True Sight, and similar spells will reveal your presence. In all other respects this ability it is treated as a glamer, and may be disbelieved.

So. Somehow it acts like a spell. But isn't a spell. And can be used in an Anti-Magic Field. Very Interesting.

... kinda like the 2nd level psi power Cloud Mind.
But way better.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 16, 2013, 10:27:20 PM
The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal is interesting in that it advances the caster level of all your other classes. The features are kinda boring, but you can get awaken as an SLA which is kinda fun.

Also, the Philosophical Alchemy is pretty much really awesome as an entire subsystem, primarily for E6. The earlier mentioned Enlightened Child can be the recipient of a soul, and is a solid route to immortality. You get a permanently young body of one of many corporeal types, and it acts as if you were reincarnated into it. In E6, it's one of the cooler ways to raise the dead. And of course, the cheaper Ice Assassin stuff.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 17, 2013, 11:11:31 AM
Ugh, people keep calling that spell Ice Assassin.  It's not.  It lasts 1 round per caster level.  A good spell?  Yes.  But nothing like ice assassin!  I swear, it's like calling Alter Self "a low level Planar Binding".

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 17, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
Ugh, people keep calling that spell Ice Assassin.  It's not.  It lasts 1 round per caster level.  A good spell?  Yes.  But nothing like ice assassin!  I swear, it's like calling Alter Self "a low level Planar Binding".

JaronK

I called no spell Ice Assassin. I called a ritual in Van Ritchen's Arsenal that lets you create a templated copy of something that's totally under your control for a few thousand gold cheaper Ice Assassin. Ravenloft, not your beloved KoK Jaron, don't worry.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 17, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
I called no spell Ice Assassin. I called a ritual in Van Ritchen's Arsenal that lets you create a templated copy of something that's totally under your control for a few thousand gold cheaper Ice Assassin. Ravenloft, not your beloved KoK Jaron, don't worry.

Ah!  Yes, I thought this was that Out of the Mirror spell again.  So is Enlightened Child the ritual you meant?  That wasn't clear... I don't actually have this book.

I don't know why everyone thinks I love KoK though.  I just found a few neat spells I liked in it and objected to the idea that it's so much worse (balance wise) than any other setting.  This is going to be like the "JaronK loves Factotums above all other classes!" thing again, isn't it?

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 17, 2013, 01:31:20 PM
This is going to be like the "JaronK loves Factotums above all other classes!" thing again, isn't it?
Things are what you choose to make them appear to be.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 17, 2013, 01:46:45 PM
Things are what you choose to make them appear to be.

Nah, it's just that some folks see the world in black and white.  If you defend something and say it's not literally the worst ever, you must love it.  If you criticize something and claim it's not the best, you must hate it.  I was only said to love Factotums above all things because I disagreed with the claims that they were incredibly weak... as I recall, I was disagreeing with Ubernoob's claims that Rogues were far stronger and that Factotums were terribly weak, a statement that now is considered absolutely foolish.  And I showed at the time why it was foolish (seriously, you have flexible spell casting, the ability to play havoc with the action economy, and on demand skill use!). 

Same deal here, really. I have never claimed to love KoK, not once.  I simply said it wasn't the most unbalanced setting ever to the point of unusability (I believe I said most of it was pretty weak, but there were a few really powerful things in it, and that I thought it was like most settings in that regard).  And I think that's still true... some of it is stupidly good (the surprise spell is I think the winner there for most ridiculous option).  Other bits are cool and worth using (I like that they have a martial weapon Pike, for example, and some of the spells are pretty neat.  The scalable spells have a lot of potential).  Other bits are basically trash (most of the PrCs).  The same can be said of most settings.

But since one person claimed it was basically the setting that showed that non WotC sources are terribly balanced and that using it at all is lazy optimization, and I said that wasn't the case, I must love it.  In actuality, I think it's just another source of material worth considering a look at.

Basic black and white thinking.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 17, 2013, 05:31:36 PM
I think it's just the way "I love KoK" rolls off the tongue ...  :P ... (inappropriate smiley face)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 17, 2013, 05:36:10 PM
The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal is interesting in that it advances the caster level of all your other classes.
Huh, a few levels could be useful in a CL build
like Bauglir's unfinished CL guide back at BG.
At least 1 level with a major bloodline (of course).

Quote
The features are kinda boring, but you can get awaken as an SLA which is kinda fun.
My kitty avatar don't usually work that cheap, but ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 17, 2013, 05:40:27 PM
I was quite surprised when I found this item (in Dungeon 126, on page 95). 

Quote
Torque of Lucid Raging

Crafted by savage shamans for use by barbarian commanders, these thick metal chokers allow raging wearers to retain a measure of control despite their battle frenzy. This magic item only aids characters with the rage extraordinary ability. Those that rage while wearing this item are not restricted in the use of skills, feats, or abilities they possess. Thus, a barbarian who rages while wearing a torque of lucid raging can use all skills, any feat, and any ability requiring patience or concentration, as well as can cast any spell and activate any magic item (as long as he possesses such skills, feats, or abilities) as if he were not raging. A torque of lucid raging uses the same space as a magic necklace.

Moderate enchantment; CL 7; Craft Wondrous Item, calm emotions; Price: 9,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Finally, a way to cast spells while raging.  This is perfect for rage cleric (Dragon 333, p86). 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 17, 2013, 05:48:37 PM
... or Rage Mage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on October 17, 2013, 05:50:03 PM
Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day.
They're also a LA +0 giant, and so allow for a LA +0 Primordial Giant character.

Actually, despite being much more giant blooded than the Half-Giant, they are in fact humanoids.
Well, damn. I guess I'll have to stick to dropping out of the Half-Giant racial class from CompPsi after the first level to get my LA +0 giant.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 17, 2013, 07:39:33 PM
I think it's just the way "I love KoK" rolls off the tongue ...  :P ... (inappropriate smiley face)

Well, that's fair.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on October 18, 2013, 12:49:44 AM
You run into the invisible guy, thus triggering the will save.

But... invisibility does not work that way, was my point. Its save is not "Will disbelief (if interacted with)" but "Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)", which is entirely different.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Bauglir on October 18, 2013, 01:54:57 AM
You run into the invisible guy, thus triggering the will save.

But... invisibility does not work that way, was my point. Its save is not "Will disbelief (if interacted with)" but "Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)", which is entirely different.
Aye, but the feat adds additional rules, likely because the author doesn't know how the spell works and thought it was clarification. So now its save is "Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object) or Will disbelief (if interacted with)".
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 18, 2013, 12:26:10 PM
Nah, it's just that some folks see the world in black and white.  If you defend something and say it's not literally the worst ever, you must love it.  If you criticize something and claim it's not the best, you must hate it.
Far from it. Recall you jumped into defending KoK's content. Then in humor of the attempt to optimize KoK material you posted a whole thread dedicated to it. to which I quickly requoted what's been said before and each and every single one of those were rebuttal or ignored because you couldn't find a way to comment about them. That's not optimizing KoK content, that's trolling to defend. And just now you read the words "The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal" & "Philosophical Alchemy" and instantly jump in citing KoK's Off the Mirror isn't broken as all fracking get out because Ice Assassin. Like that's some how an excuse, like you need to defend KoK, like what the hell are you even doing? Randomly poping into threads to continue a KoK defense, that's what.

And I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but you've always been like that. You argue the finest strawman across multiple threads because you think that if one of those elements (IC>OtM, ps it's not) some how utterly invalidates the main scope of things (OtM is the f'ing shit). And you do this to such an extent that three or four pages of threads later you still cannot even bring your self to comment that OtM is even a decent Spell, it's weaker than Ice Assassin is your only comment and you will randomly pop into threads just to argue that.

The devision of black and white comes from you.

I think it's just the way "I love KoK" rolls off the tongue ...  :P ... (inappropriate smiley face)
:lol

And in that I'm reminded of offering people jobs planting tulips...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 18, 2013, 02:26:27 PM
Nah, it's just that some folks see the world in black and white.  If you defend something and say it's not literally the worst ever, you must love it.  If you criticize something and claim it's not the best, you must hate it.
Far from it. Recall you jumped into defending KoK's content.

I defended against the claim that it was so bad as to make it lazy optimizing to ever use anything from it.  I defended against the claim that it was so bad that it was the very reason why third party material isn't trusted.  That's not saying you love something.  I then went on to say it was kinda like most other settings, with some broken stuff and a lot of weak stuff.  I said it was a lot like core that way.  That's... true.

Quote
Then in humor of the attempt to optimize KoK material you posted a whole thread dedicated to it. to which I quickly requoted what's been said before and each and every single one of those were rebuttal or ignored because you couldn't find a way to comment about them.   That's not optimizing KoK content, that's trolling to defend.

You clearly hadn't read much of what you just copypasta'd.  Much of it didn't work as claimed.  Some things did, which I left to stand.  If you put up simply wrong material, don't get surprised when someone just tells you as much.  And a lot of what you copied wasn't nearly as strong as implied in addition to being wrong, like that feat chain that just lets you force will saves or enemies flee... at a really low DC, and it was mind affecting, making it nearly useless at higher levels.

Quote
And just now you read the words "The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal" & "Philosophical Alchemy" and instantly jump in citing KoK's Off the Mirror isn't broken as all fracking get out because Ice Assassin. Like that's some how an excuse, like you need to defend KoK, like what the hell are you even doing? Randomly poping into threads to continue a KoK defense, that's what.

Again, I never said it wasn't powerful, I said it wasn't ice assassin (because it's nothing like that).  I even straight up said that comparing it to ice assassin is like saying Alter Self was like Planar Binding... notice how those are both overpowered spells.  And since the last thing we'd been talking about where someone vaguely mentioned ice assassin was that spell, it's natural to assume when someone does the same thing that they're also talking about that spell.

It's not defending Kalamar to say that Off the Mirror is overpowered but not like Ice Assassin, any more than it's defending core to say that Alter Self is overpowered but not like Planar Binding or that Planar binding is overpowered but not like Shapechange.  Face it, they're dramatically different spells, and your original claim about Ice Assassin only came about because you read it online somewhere and had never seen the spell itself.

Quote
And I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but you've always been like that. You argue the finest strawman across multiple threads because you think that if one of those elements (IC>OtM, ps it's not) some how utterly invalidates the main scope of things (OtM is the f'ing shit). And you do this to such an extent that three or four pages of threads later you still cannot even bring your self to comment that OtM is even a decent Spell, it's weaker than Ice Assassin is your only comment and you will randomly pop into threads just to argue that.

And now you've actually lost track of reality.  Look at what you're saying... that I cannot bring myself to comment that OtM is even a decent spell.  Here's the last thing I said about it:

"Ugh, people keep calling that spell Ice Assassin.  It's not.  It lasts 1 round per caster level.  A good spell?  Yes.  But nothing like ice assassin!  I swear, it's like calling Alter Self "a low level Planar Binding"."

I stated right there that it's a good spell, just not like ice assassin.  Did I say it was weak?  No.  I said it was good.  I compared it to another overpowered spell, in fact.  And before that, I said it was like a very expensive Dominate Monster or a low level Ethereal jaunt.  Which, you know, it is.  And both of those are powerful spells.  I'm not even saying it's weaker than Ice Assassin... I'm saying it's simply not ice assassin... it does completely different things.  Ice Assassin gives you permanent minions.  Ice Assassin is similar to spells like Animate Dread Warrior or Simulacrum, and at lower level Animate Dead.  This spell gives you a short term ability to duplicate one off magic items (such as scrolls) or to create a temporary dominated enemy clones, which could be very powerful when combined with material component cost reductions or the usual Astral Projection item duplication tricks.  Powerful?  Yes.  But nothing like Ice Assassin in its usage.

Hey, let's do this: can you ever quote me, even once, saying Off the Mirror isn't a powerful spell?  Go for it.  If you can't... it's just you.  Or are you going to go for the excuse of "I didn't read that because it's too long" or something like that?  If you can't show me ever saying it's weak, then this is all in your head.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 18, 2013, 02:51:24 PM
I foresee a humongous debate that clogs this thread in the near future. Why not either create a new thread or decide to cease arguing?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 18, 2013, 02:55:06 PM
Fair enough.  I see no point to continuing said madness.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 18, 2013, 08:31:47 PM
So it seemed to be overlooked in the war of KoK, but does anyone have the Menta Cyclopean issue on line? I would really like to see that. I had never heard about it and would love to read about that race. Thanks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on October 18, 2013, 09:01:55 PM
2 kinds, both humanoid:
+2con, -2dex (or also +2str for -2int)
medium 30' darkv 60'
the 3/day other people augury thing or instead +1init & refl insight
-2search, spot & ranged rolls
auto common & giant, some other manual languages
LA+0 favored wizard or bard
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 18, 2013, 11:48:49 PM
2 kinds, both humanoid:
+2con, -2dex (or also +2str for -2int)
medium 30' darkv 60'
the 3/day other people augury thing or instead +1init & refl insight
-2search, spot & ranged rolls
auto common & giant, some other manual languages
LA+0 favored wizard or bard

So I did a ton of digging and found that Dragon mag online. The interesting thing is that in the Racial Traits, they are not listed as either Humanoids, or Giants. They are routinely described as Giants, until it starts talking about their appearance, at which it refers to them being large humanoids. So the article clearly describes them as both, and their official stats do not call them out as either. Were they ever updated anywhere else? Otherwise, it seems like DM's choice. Personally, I would lean toward allowing them as Giants as that is what the majority of the fluff suggests, and there is no Rules material to counter it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 19, 2013, 12:23:54 AM
Actually, it's cyclopes that are called giants.  Cyclopeans are only ever called humanoids. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lunarambling on October 19, 2013, 01:46:08 AM
Actually, it's cyclopes that are called giants.  Cyclopeans are only ever called humanoids.

That is incorrect. Here are a couple of quotes.

"Known as Feral-Kind, these cyclopeans are violent and savage, like many other types of giants." This clearly implies that they are in fact giants.

"As befitting their Giant ancestry, Cyclopeans have short, simple names." Again referencing their giant heritage.

Personally, I think that the author foolishly used the term humanoids to reference other creatures with a humanoid shape, such as Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, etc. Humanoid does have a meaning in the english language beyond the rules of creature types. If reading with context, that general English meaning fits perfectly in every place where humanoids are referenced. This would clear up why they are called out above as being giants.

Personally, for me the first quote solidifies the intent of what creature type they were meant to be.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: DavidWL on October 19, 2013, 03:53:53 AM
The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal is interesting in that it advances the caster level of all your other classes. The features are kinda boring, but you can get awaken as an SLA which is kinda fun

Very cool!

Also makes me think that a warlock's abilities would also be advanced. 

A bard / sublime chord would have both CLs advanced ... big perk!
Knight of the weave becomes a fabulous dip ... would be interesting to make a build.

Bard 4
Warlock 1
Cleric 3
Hallowed Witch 2
Sublime Chord 1
Knight of the Weave 1
Hallowed Witch +8
-->
11th level Warlock abilities
10th level Knight of the weave casting
13th level cleric casting.
14th level bard casting
10th level sublime chord casting

Not uber powerful, but cool.

Also, order independent (you don't "advance" previous CL ... you "stack" with them).

Best,
David
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 19, 2013, 01:25:54 PM
Known as Feral-Kind, these cyclopeans are violent and savage, like many other types of giants.

Alright, I did miss that one.  Now I'll agree that it's ambiguous. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 19, 2013, 02:15:35 PM
The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal is interesting in that it advances the caster level of all your other classes. The features are kinda boring, but you can get awaken as an SLA which is kinda fun

*Stuff*

Best,
David

Note that there's a 70% chance that it in fact only advances Caster Level, not full spell advancement. So it's pretty much only good for pumping your CL, not so much for advancing a bunch of classes. For example, a Spellthief 1/Bard 1/ Beholder Mage 10/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Arcane Caster X 1/ Hallowed Witch 5 gets you a CL of silly.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 19, 2013, 03:32:17 PM
That's the most Div action going on in an LA+0 Commoner.
Wouldn't these guys survive + thrive, in The Singularity ?!



So what happened to the KoK Fight ?
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 20, 2013, 07:45:33 PM
So what happened to the KoK Fight ?
Someone called stop.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 21, 2013, 01:39:46 AM
so I was making a Monk for a campaign the other day and I took a look at the Shiba Protector prestige class from Oriental Adventures, pg 223, and came across something interesting regarding its wording of its 1st level ability.

No Thought (EX): Shiba Protectors add their Wisdom modifier if positive, to their attack and damage rolls.

 now it does not specify weapon damage, just plain old damage. so hello things such as inflict spells, ice axe, and shivering touch, flame acorns (dont know for sure if that is the right name of this one).

practicality aside that is an interesting way the ability is worded.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 21, 2013, 01:49:56 AM
Might be nice as a small dip as a Dragonfire Adept...

Actually, don't most class features that add an ability score to damage not specify weapon damage?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 21, 2013, 02:07:55 AM
probably a fair point there, never looked much into the rest of the x stat to damage abilities were worded to see if they qualified. this one i thought was interesting because it would potentially be a great dip for either a cleric or druid.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 21, 2013, 02:16:02 AM
Also the Vodan is an amazing divine caster that gets 9th level spells, imbue with spell ability as a class feature and MULTIPLE turning pools such as undead, outsider, fey, and animal

you can find it on pg 174 of Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends in the Ravenloft campaign setting.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 21, 2013, 10:59:58 AM
probably a fair point there, never looked much into the rest of the x stat to damage abilities were worded to see if they qualified. this one i thought was interesting because it would potentially be a great dip for either a cleric or druid.
Ability Damage is not Damage just because they share one word.

The argument is so old even the FAQ jumped in and said no.
Quote
Do feats that affect damage, such as Weapon Specialization, increase the amount of ability damage done with an attack such as a shadow’s touch attack?
Although they do use the same word, damage and ability damage are completely different. Feats and other sources that give bonuses to damage do not affect ability damage unless they specifically say so.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on October 21, 2013, 11:05:33 AM
probably a fair point there, never looked much into the rest of the x stat to damage abilities were worded to see if they qualified. this one i thought was interesting because it would potentially be a great dip for either a cleric or druid.
Ability Damage is not Damage just because they share one word.

The argument is so old even the FAQ jumped in and said no.
Quote
Do feats that affect damage, such as Weapon Specialization, increase the amount of ability damage done with an attack such as a shadow’s touch attack?
Although they do use the same word, damage and ability damage are completely different. Feats and other sources that give bonuses to damage do not affect ability damage unless they specifically say so.

Thank you. The intent has always seemed braindead obvious to me. Do you think it would work on spells and breath weapons though?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 21, 2013, 11:29:27 AM
Sor0, ability damage was never mentioned. Or implied. He was referring to the X Stat to Y Bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread.

We're not that dumb, you know  :D.

That said, if it is based off of damage and not weapon damage, it applies to stuff like breath weapons or other abilities that deal flat damage that are otherwise kinda a pain to enhance otherwise.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 21, 2013, 12:53:29 PM
That's odd.  I got the opposite impression from Rules Compendium. 

Quote
Damage reduces a target’s current hit points, unless it’s specified as some other sort of damage. Certain attacks, creatures, and magical effects can cause other sorts of damage, such as ability damage, energy drain, or nonlethal damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 21, 2013, 01:15:22 PM
probably a fair point there, never looked much into the rest of the x stat to damage abilities were worded to see if they qualified. this one i thought was interesting because it would potentially be a great dip for either a cleric or druid.
Ability Damage is not Damage just because they share one word.

The argument is so old even the FAQ jumped in and said no.
Quote
Do feats that affect damage, such as Weapon Specialization, increase the amount of ability damage done with an attack such as a shadow’s touch attack?
Although they do use the same word, damage and ability damage are completely different. Feats and other sources that give bonuses to damage do not affect ability damage unless they specifically say so.

Thank you. The intent has always seemed braindead obvious to me. Do you think it would work on spells and breath weapons though?


thanks for the clarification. could someone link the faq though? ability damage and regular damage were always thought to be modified by such things by my DM and it would be nice to start doing it right for once. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on October 21, 2013, 01:48:03 PM
That's odd.  I got the opposite impression from Rules Compendium. 

Quote
Damage reduces a target’s current hit points, unless it’s specified as some other sort of damage. Certain attacks, creatures, and magical effects can cause other sorts of damage, such as ability damage, energy drain, or nonlethal damage.
:twitch

Rules Compendium trumps FAQ. Now, this is a fun find.

Rules compendium even calls ability damage a subtype of damage in the ability damage section too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 21, 2013, 02:08:08 PM
Holy. Fuck.

Now excuse me, I've got some Ghosts to build...

"You deal HOW MUCH ability damage?"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on October 21, 2013, 02:20:51 PM
E6 build that takes advantage of this:
(using partial BAB/Saves)
Cloistered Cleric 1/Marshal 1/ Master of Shrouds 4.
Summon Shadows, boost their strength damage with your aura.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 21, 2013, 02:21:33 PM
Delicious.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 21, 2013, 02:35:46 PM
Factotums can add their Int bonus to any damage roll.  This makes Shivering Touch and Lahm's Finger Darts even nastier for them.  Not many things enjoy someone sneaking up and landing 3d6+Int bonus dex damage.  Yay, dragons are even more screwed.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on October 21, 2013, 02:38:22 PM
The FAQ answer and the RC wording work perfectly together though and are not contradictory in the slightest.  So why suddenly ignore the FAQ ruling?  :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 21, 2013, 03:14:55 PM
I'm having a tough time reading that RC ruling as anything other than "ability damage is a subset of damage".  In that case, any thing that applies to "damage" can also be applied to ability damage.

How are you reading it?

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Zionpopsickle on October 21, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
The fact that something belongs to a group as a whole does not mean it belongs to a subgroup with a shared characteristic.  Ability damage is a damage in that it reduces ability scores in a characteristically similar way to how damage reduces hit points.  In some ways this is like assuming a truck tire for an F-150 will fit on a semi since both are trucks and both use truck tires.  Damage and ability damage are clearly spelled out as being different in the RC quote, but are said to have a number of similarities as well.

Now I think it is very poorly worded and lacks clear intent.  This is a place where there is no real RAW because it relies on how one decides to interpret the two provided quotes since they are not necessarily mutually exclusive but could be.

And now we see why you should use technical writing when making rules sets.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on October 21, 2013, 04:03:41 PM
I'm having a tough time reading that RC ruling as anything other than "ability damage is a subset of damage".  In that case, any thing that applies to "damage" can also be applied to ability damage.

How are you reading it?

JaronK
I'm reading it that true "damage" deals HP damage.  But there are other things that are harmful to creatures and damage them in some form or another but are separate and distinct, not a subset of the HP dealing damage.  But just because something work on an ability that deals HP damage does not mean it works with EVERY type of damage.  Heck, the RC quote lists energy drain.  So now can you get a vampire that gets WIS to "damage" for the number of levels he drains thanks to Shiba Protector?  :o
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on October 21, 2013, 04:17:44 PM
On the other side of the coin, if feats like Weapon Spec. and other things affect ability damage it may mean that ability damage is affected by DR.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 21, 2013, 04:32:37 PM
(again?) ... Titles and Adjectives and Compound Words, oh my.


Does KoK have damage subtypes ... OK I'll stop.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 21, 2013, 04:41:47 PM
Does KoK have damage subtypes ... OK I'll stop.

KoK damage is no laughing matter.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on October 21, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
Not the ability damage shit again...   :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 21, 2013, 05:27:19 PM
Sor0, ability damage was never mentioned. Or implied. He was referring to the X Stat to Y Bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread.

We're not that dumb, you know  :D.

That said, if it is based off of damage and not weapon damage, it applies to stuff like breath weapons or other abilities that deal flat damage that are otherwise kinda a pain to enhance otherwise.
Spot failed on my part, I seen the "damage abilities" and like a dyslexic person flipped it.

Also you spoke too soon ;)
Maat Mons took away an Enervation Spell is modified by Weapon Specialization, despite "Damage" as a mechanical term literally being stated as to reduce HP in his own provided quote and other types of harm such as Energy Drain never having referred to it's self as damage in the history of 3rd. All because he could not correctly interpret a message and hung up on a single word.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 21, 2013, 05:48:38 PM
Except the RC says damage reduces HP except when it specifically does something else.  And then it lists even Energy Drain as an example of this.  That's just... weird.  That RC quote certainly does look like it's trying to say ability damage and energy drain both count as damage.

...I really don't like the RC.

Jaronk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 21, 2013, 06:14:34 PM
That RC quote certainly does look like it's trying to say ability damage and energy drain both count as damage.
Even if you can't understand how one word can mean more than one thing, mindful as the RC has stated that "damage" always means HP damage unless the rules in question directly state otherwise. Shiba Protector's No Thought (and the like) of course do not specify otherwise, so take a second to realize what that means. There is no nor ever has been ambiguity and the FAQ's entry, like virtually all the others it contains, is because common sense is a rarity.

Also the FAQ entry is marked red, it came out post RC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 21, 2013, 08:12:57 PM
My understanding of the RC quote is that the reference to "unless the rules in question directly state otherwise" is talking about the very next thing it says, namely ability damage (the rules for that state it applies to abilities, not HP) and Energy Drain (the rules for that state it applies to levels, not HP) and so on.  Why even reference those types in a thing about damage unless they were listing these as examples of damage that, due to directly stating otherwise, don't damage HP?

Of course, the FAQ obviously disagrees here (and is more specific to the case in question).  Between FAQs trumping it and the newer core books trumping it, does the RC have any purpose at all?  It seems like absolutely everything trumps it at this point and the book has no purpose whatsoever.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on October 21, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
Of course, the FAQ obviously disagrees here (and is more specific to the case in question).  Between FAQs trumping it and the newer core books trumping it, does the RC have any purpose at all?  It seems like absolutely everything trumps it at this point and the book has no purpose whatsoever.

Quote from: Rules Compendium, Introduction on page 5
When a preexisting core book or supplement differs with the rules herein, Rules Compendium is meant to take precedence. If you have a question on how to play D&D at the table, this book is meant to answer that question.
Actually, RC trumps everything.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 21, 2013, 10:39:48 PM
My understanding of the RC quote
And that's it right there. Your understanding.

Your understanding of a word found in a single sentence posted on the forums. You refute the intent of the passage because it goes against how you understand things but you have never once read the paragraph it's contained in. You cite Ability Damage & Energy Drain are damage as your understanding is not based on their primary rule entries. You dub the RC useless because you choose not to understand it's purpose. Then ignore the FAQ and claim it's wrong because as you understand things Wizards of the Coast are the ones that incorrect in the rules they have created and in how they choose to update them.

So know this since we are talking about understandings. I understand you have never read the material in question, I understand WotC makes the rules not you, and I understand that an accurate interpretation would be in agreeance with a majority of the content and not be based an over empathized word. Does that make me right? Well, I understand that one of these days you will successfully convince me that my understanding of the mentally handicapped is just as limited as I see you are now and is that not the point to take away from this? WotC's ruling is clear and precise with no room to argue, prolonged discussion has nothing to do with the rules, but instead only about the people arguing with them.

Which for topic's sake, should be allowed to die so we might move onto better, on-topic, discussions.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on October 21, 2013, 10:43:28 PM

Quote from: Rules Compendium, Introduction on page 5
When a preexisting core book or supplement differs with the rules herein, Rules Compendium is meant to take precedence. If you have a question on how to play D&D at the table, this book is meant to answer that question.
Actually, RC trumps everything.

Check the emphasis
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 21, 2013, 11:05:40 PM
I foresee a humongous debate that clogs this thread in the near future. Why not either create a new thread or decide to cease arguing?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on October 21, 2013, 11:07:26 PM
Just fuck already and leave this thread to Fun Finds rather than whatever personal vendetta you have that you keep bringing up everywhere.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 21, 2013, 11:12:13 PM
I never did get why SorO is so personal about me.  But he does this on a regular basis.  Whatever, no point in engaging.  I'd prefer to actually just talk about rules and fun finds and the uses of those finds.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Zionpopsickle on October 21, 2013, 11:26:22 PM
I never did get why SorO is so personal about me.  But he does this on a regular basis.  Whatever, no point in engaging.  I'd prefer to actually just talk about rules and fun finds and the uses of those finds.

JaronK

Passive aggressive bullshit like this is no better than Soro's blunt confrontation.  Don't make a fucking post to talk about how you aren't going to engage someone.  Just don't engage them.

To contribute... I'll re-add my favorite little thing ever.  With Reserves of Strength and a sufficiently high CL you can cast a Horde Gullet spell large enough to contain buildings.  Thus allowing for Dungeons in Dragons.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on October 22, 2013, 12:59:34 AM
Okay, now THAT screams campaign hook to me.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 22, 2013, 01:35:30 AM
Also the Vodan is an amazing divine caster that gets 9th level spells, imbue with spell ability as a class feature and MULTIPLE turning pools such as undead, outsider, fey, and animal

you can find it on pg 174 of Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends in the Ravenloft campaign setting.

I'd like to bring this back up since I finally took a look see. It's a fantastic class! Everything you ever wanted your Spirit Shaman to be, all wrapped up in one pleasant little tier 1 divine spell caster. They get 9th level spells off the bard, cleric, druid and ranger lists in two schools, and 8th level ones in the rest due to quirky casting mechanics. That's nearly Archivist levels of spell access, without the need for a prayer book. Plus, share your personal buffs as an innate part of the class. And if the Turning works as Turn Undead, you can make the classic PBMC uber rebuker but use it on your choice of 2 of Animals, Elementals, Fey, Outsiders, or Undead. Plus, it occupies that nice niche where it's clearly really good, but not Darklight Wizard broken, so you've got a decent shot of actually getting it allowed.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 22, 2013, 02:07:41 AM
Also the Vodan is an amazing divine caster that gets 9th level spells, imbue with spell ability as a class feature and MULTIPLE turning pools such as undead, outsider, fey, and animal

you can find it on pg 174 of Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends in the Ravenloft campaign setting.

I'd like to bring this back up since I finally took a look see. It's a fantastic class! Everything you ever wanted your Spirit Shaman to be, all wrapped up in one pleasant little tier 1 divine spell caster. They get 9th level spells off the bard, cleric, druid and ranger lists in two schools, and 8th level ones in the rest due to quirky casting mechanics. That's nearly Archivist levels of spell access, without the need for a prayer book. Plus, share your personal buffs as an innate part of the class. And if the Turning works as Turn Undead, you can make the classic PBMC uber rebuker but use it on your choice of 2 of Animals, Elementals, Fey, Outsiders, or Undead. Plus, it occupies that nice niche where it's clearly really good, but not Darklight Wizard broken, so you've got a decent shot of actually getting it allowed.

Now this is a topic worth discussing. I had no intention for this thread of devolving due to my previous post concerning Shiba Protector.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 22, 2013, 03:04:43 AM
Also the Vodan is an amazing divine caster that gets 9th level spells, imbue with spell ability as a class feature and MULTIPLE turning pools such as undead, outsider, fey, and animal

you can find it on pg 174 of Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends in the Ravenloft campaign setting.

I'd like to bring this back up since I finally took a look see. It's a fantastic class! Everything you ever wanted your Spirit Shaman to be, all wrapped up in one pleasant little tier 1 divine spell caster. They get 9th level spells off the bard, cleric, druid and ranger lists in two schools, and 8th level ones in the rest due to quirky casting mechanics. That's nearly Archivist levels of spell access, without the need for a prayer book. Plus, share your personal buffs as an innate part of the class. And if the Turning works as Turn Undead, you can make the classic PBMC uber rebuker but use it on your choice of 2 of Animals, Elementals, Fey, Outsiders, or Undead. Plus, it occupies that nice niche where it's clearly really good, but not Darklight Wizard broken, so you've got a decent shot of actually getting it allowed.

Now this is a topic worth discussing. I had no intention for this thread of devolving due to my previous post concerning Shiba Protector.

I failed to mention they get spontaneous spells off a domain of their choice, although no other features. You're also encouraged to create gods for them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 22, 2013, 08:33:50 AM
I never did get why SorO is so personal about me.  But he does this on a regular basis.  Whatever, no point in engaging.  I'd prefer to actually just talk about rules and fun finds and the uses of those finds.

JaronK

Passive aggressive bullshit like this is no better than Soro's blunt confrontation.  Don't make a fucking post to talk about how you aren't going to engage someone.  Just don't engage them.

To contribute... I'll re-add my favorite little thing ever.  With Reserves of Strength and a sufficiently high CL you can cast a Horde Gullet spell large enough to contain buildings.  Thus allowing for Dungeons in Dragons.
That may be the funest find ever.  You could even have a veritable nesting doll forest of Dragons in Dungeons in Dragons in Dungeons.  (Dragon) Turtles all the way down.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 22, 2013, 01:23:55 PM
Pile a bunch of Yuan-Ti together and as each one gets near death they vomit out the other. Then you can call the collective Orochimaru ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 22, 2013, 06:16:35 PM
From Ravenloft-Champions of Darkness pg. 40
The Worldbreaker is a prestige class is a NPC class that can be entered by both Arcane and Divine casters. Its first level class feature is quite interesting.

Chakra Mastery (SU): At 1st level, this ability allows the Worldbreaker to add her Charisma Bonus to All saves. Additionally, the priestess may dance silently in place of praying when casting a spell. The Worldbreaker must make a performance check against a DC of 10 + the spells level. if the check is successful, she can cast that spell as if it were prepared using the Silent Spell feat, Without using up a spell slot

Now surely that must be a typo but I find this class very interesting.

Also I am not sure but it MIGHT grant an arcane caster the Destruction, Evil, Healing, and Trickery domains. I find the wording unclear.

Oops. one must be a female cleric and posess the destricion domain since first level but it advances either arcane or divine casting for some reason.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 22, 2013, 06:45:31 PM
Sounds like Halloween Night at a planar Dance club.


... With Reserves of Strength and a sufficiently high CL you can cast a Horde Gullet spell large enough to contain buildings.  Thus allowing for Dungeons in Dragons.

Ha.
Take a Troll in there and torture it to death ... you  know , that fire + acid heartburn.
Title: Spellcasting Classes Trivia
Post by: Captnq on October 22, 2013, 11:00:11 PM
(If you count only "official" 3.0/3.5 published books.)

When you count only classes that can cast spells there are:
24 Base Classes
6 Paragon Classes
280 Classes that add at least +1 to a caster level of another class.
57 Classes that have stand alone spell lists

Out of the base classes:
1 Class can be either Arcane or Divine.
3 are Prepared Arcane
8 are Spontaneous Arcane
9 are Prepared Divine
3 are Spontaneous Divine

1 Class can be based on any attribute.
9 based on Cha (All Spontaneous)
6 based on Int (4 Prep, 2 Spont)
8 based on Wis (All Prep)

Out of the PrCs that add to another class:
146 classes can add +1 to any spellcasting class
57 Add to any Arcane
1 Adds to 2 different arcane classes
5 Add to arcane and divine
4 Add to arcane and other
1 Adds to only bard
1 Adds to only cleric
60 Add to any divine
2 Add to Divine and other
1 Adds to only ranger
1 Adds to only sorcerer
1 Adds to only wizard

There are 125 PrCs that do not add to your caster level with the 1st level of the class
Only 46 PrCs expand your spell list (Mostly through adding extra domains.)

Out of the PrC that give you Spell Levels you can cast with.
1 is either Arcane or Divine depending on what you need.
8 are prepared arcane (7 Int, 1 Cha)
14 are spontaneous arcane (10 Cha, 3 Int, 1 Taint)
29 are prepared divine (all Wis)
5 are spontaneous divine. (3 Cha, 1 Wis, 1 Int)


There are 7 total spellcasting (Base+PrC) classes that are halved to determine what your caster level is.

There are 7 PrC that can cast level 9 spells.
There are 15 base classes that can as well.

Beholder Mage, Blighter, and Ur-priest are the top three classes for casting 9th level spells the fastest.
Only the PrC Recaster can cast ANY spell from ANY list (But you can only select two spells, ever.)

Only 7 PrCs give you cantrips.
6 Base classes don't. Out of those, only Dread Necromancer advances past 4th level spells.

For most PrCs, Minimum Entry Level seems to be either 5th or 7th level 90% of the time.

Nar Demonbinder and Sublime Chord are the only two classes that give spells and DON'T start with 1st level spells. (The both start with 4th)

7 PrCs have only 3 levels of spells.
Title: Re: Spellcasting Classes Trivia
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 23, 2013, 07:32:43 AM
Only the PrC Recaster can cast ANY spell from ANY list (But you can only select two spells, ever.)
To add to the Recaster comment, the MiC's Runestaffs allow you to channel an open/unused Arcane Slot through it to cast an Arcane Spell of the type the Staff was made with. There are three limitations to note, first the MiC suggests custom made Staffs to have only 3~5 Spells, second is only one such Staff can be used at once, and the third is the Spell cast must be on your Spell List. However a Staff is a Magic Item and subject to UMD. UMD in this case and proof is fully intended to meet such requirements as seen with Scrolls and such. Therefor, depending on your creator, a Runestaff allow you to cast any 5 Arcane Spells ever printed.

Also deserving of notation, per Oriental Adventures a Sorcerer can substitute his entire Sorcerer Spell List for the Wu Jen's Spell List. Prestige Bard adds the Bard Spells to any Arcane Class, Rainbow Savant adds the Cleric List to any Arcane Class, and a True Dragon can make usage of Child of Eberron to substitute their Cleric Spell Access for Druid Spell Access. It also means a Child of Eberron Steel Dragon Sorcerer 3 / Prestige Bard 1 / Rainbow Savant 10 / Epic Progression 5 can create a Runestaff containing any mixture of Druid, Cleric, Bard, and Wu Jen Spells to augment your inherent Wizard/Sorcerer capabilities.

Silver Pryomancer (I think) adds the Paladin Spells to any Divine Class and any Divine Spellcaster can make usage of a single Domain Staff. It works like a Runestaff, but Spell Choice is limited to a single Domain List. And the Spell Domain has Anyspell which lets a Cleric use his 3rd level Domain Slot to prepare any 2nd level Arcane Spell from a Spellbook (or scroll, but it's consumed), it's Greater version uses your 6th level Domain Slot for a 5th level Arcane Spell. So a Wizard/Prestige_Bard's Spellbook to a Cleric is worth it's weight in Astral Diamonds.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on October 23, 2013, 10:03:28 AM
Silver Pyromancer adds Paladin spells to the spell list of any Arcane class. Your Wizard can now legally add all Paladin spells to their spellbook.

It, however, has a proviso that prevents you from adding it to, say, Warmage.

As in it explicitly disallows you from adding it to the Warmage class list, or any other list caster.

They got wise to us  :P.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on October 23, 2013, 11:25:18 AM
I had the other classes, but missed the silver pyromancer/paladin spell list thing.

Ya mind checking to see if I missed anything else?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5044.msg73050#msg73050

I want to make sure it's accurate before I add it to The Spellbook's Zip File and upload it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 23, 2013, 11:42:55 AM
its just 3.0/3.5 1st party material? or are dragon mags included?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on October 23, 2013, 11:43:21 AM
Silver Pyromancer adds Paladin spells to the spell list of any Arcane class. Your Wizard can now legally add all Paladin spells to their spellbook.

Damn. Now I wish I kept track of which ones needed spellbooks.

Arcane Casters who need to prepare spells ahead of time:

They all "prepares and casts spells just as a wizard does."

Corrupt Avenger*
Cultist of the Shattered Peak
Ebonmar Infiltrator
Hoardstealer
Merchant Prince*
Prime Underdark Guide*
Telflammar Shadowlord
Thayan Slaver

Only the * specifically list the need for spellbooks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on October 23, 2013, 12:22:27 PM
its just 3.0/3.5 1st party material? or are dragon mags included?

Just 1st party. I need to draw the line somewhere. Not that dragon magazine isn't interesting, mind you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 23, 2013, 04:14:02 PM
Silver Pyromancer adds Paladin spells to the spell list of any Arcane class. Your Wizard can now legally add all Paladin spells to their spellbook.
I thought it was Divine Based not Arcane, good to know. :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 23, 2013, 06:53:15 PM
 :huh , I wonder what 2 spells a Recaster could pick
that would be the least accessible to other casters?

Something like 1 Psi 9 discipline list only power
brought over via a Chameleon Crafted scroll,
and 1 weird Cleric Domain 9.

Or a Sorc Only 9 with a Druid Only 9.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: JaronK on October 23, 2013, 08:18:45 PM
Well, you can get Trapsmith spells, which are the same as normal ones but MUCH lower level.  Things level level 3 Fabricate.  Not sure that's the best use, but you can do it.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on October 23, 2013, 09:30:51 PM
Wu Jen or Shujenja spells?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on October 23, 2013, 11:43:44 PM
I'm terribly sorry, but I am often guilty of beating dead horses... because I'm not sure I understand if its dead or how we are beating it.

Quote from: Rules Compendium
Damage reduces a target’s current hit points, unless it’s specified as some other sort of damage. Certain attacks, creatures, and magical effects can cause other sorts of damage, such as ability damage, energy drain, or nonlethal damage.
I feel it necessary to distill what this is grammatically saying.

the reference to "unless the rules in question directly state otherwise" is talking about the very next thing it says, namely ability damage (the rules for that state it applies to abilities, not HP) and Energy Drain (the rules for that state it applies to levels, not HP)
I understand what you are saying and this is very common sense to me. So far, I agree (though I do like the RC! sorry JK!)

Also the FAQ entry is marked red, it came out post RC.
Can I get the dates?

KoK damage is no laughing matter.
I don't know. Depends on how you damage it. ;)

Now this is a topic worth discussing.
No its not because it isn't legal for 3.0/3.5

On the other side of the coin, if feats like Weapon Spec. and other things affect ability damage it may mean that ability damage is affected by DR.
I get where you're going but am having difficulty finding the rules quote I want.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 24, 2013, 12:50:06 AM


Now this is a topic worth discussing.
No its not because it isn't legal for 3.0/3.5

Actually The Ravenloft campaign setting is and "official Wizards of the Coast licensed product". Their Logo is right there on the 2nd page of the book I referenced. It might not be first party material but it is second party material.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 24, 2013, 08:10:43 AM
I'm terribly sorry, but I am often guilty of beating dead horses... because I'm not sure I understand if its dead or how we are beating it.
You are quite guilty. I will answer the date question through. RC is 08/2007 and the FAQ entry is marked red (thus new) in the final 06/2008 release.

It is also worth noting that the quoted section in the previous discussion stems from the Attacks & Damage entry, a topic that in overall discusses how to attack, the differences between melee and ranged, the entry on touch attacks, what a Full-Attack is, and the natural 1 & 20s rules on Attack Rules. It so happens to also contain three paragraphs on damage as the result of an attack. The quote is found in the description of this area which then goes on to to give a vague idea on damage modifiers (basically, stuff mods it), minimum damage (1 point min), and damage multiplication (extra dice ignored, see page 42), and specifying if the damage dealt is lethal or not (see page 72).

It is not the entry on Ability Damage, Energy Drain, or even Lethal/Nonlethal damage. In all truth, it's addressing the Attack side of combat. After all, "other sorts of harm" and it's following unquoted sentence "When you hit with such an attack, apply the effects of the attack as that attack’s description dictates." can be used to accurately describe how to handle effects like Antimagic Ray or Dimensional Anchor. Both of which require you to Attack even through you deal no damage. Which certainly the over empathized forum quote would decree as "damage". [sarcasm]Because Weapon Specialization should give +2 to turning people into Stone![/sarcasm]. As descriptive text, would have correctly fulfilled it's job if it attempt to explain it's intent as such was done a little more clearly but this is D&D, and not MtG, we're discussing. It's almost to be expected.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 24, 2013, 11:38:12 AM
Actually The Ravenloft campaign setting is and "official Wizards of the Coast licensed product". Their Logo is right there on the 2nd page of the book I referenced. It might not be first party material but it is second party material.

that makes them officially licensed, since the book was published by a 3rd party. that puts them in the same boat as Dragon mags and KoK... i mean Kalamar

so it's really up to him to choose to include all of the licensed material, which is about 2-3x the WotC material
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on October 24, 2013, 12:30:59 PM
Actually The Ravenloft campaign setting is and "official Wizards of the Coast licensed product". Their Logo is right there on the 2nd page of the book I referenced. It might not be first party material but it is second party material.

that makes them officially licensed, since the book was published by a 3rd party. that puts them in the same boat as Dragon mags and KoK... i mean Kalamar

so it's really up to him to choose to include all of the licensed material, which is about 2-3x the WotC material

It's more about avoiding mission creep and usability. I KNOW what I'm making is "official". In so much as you might exclude specific books, but you can't say you are excluding the material because it wasn't "approved". Also, I don't have EVERYTHING. But I do have all the "official" books both in hard copy and on PDF. So I feel comfortable working with those. I welcome and encourage others to take my work, steal it, and go further.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 24, 2013, 12:50:04 PM
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting book is 1st party, but like KoK & Dragon Mag (and apparently Ravenloft) it's subsequent Expansions are 2nd Party as well. Which technically creates this oddity that non-Humans can take the Dragonspawn Template freely in 1st party, whereas in 2nd party they must also take the Dragonspawn Abomination Template as well.

I welcome and encourage others to take my work, steal it, and go further.
Philosophical question here, if you offer something up for free can it truly be stolen? ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 24, 2013, 02:34:44 PM
It's more about avoiding mission creep and usability. I KNOW what I'm making is "official". In so much as you might exclude specific books, but you can't say you are excluding the material because it wasn't "approved". Also, I don't have EVERYTHING. But I do have all the "official" books both in hard copy and on PDF. So I feel comfortable working with those. I welcome and encourage others to take my work, steal it, and go further.

I totally understand why you chose to do just 1st party stuff, I'm fine with that :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 25, 2013, 04:46:35 PM
Has anyone tried to define tightly and/or complied a list of:
pseudo-1st party  "official" stuff that isn't Official-y enough.

The old psi board list (still exists) of sources by 7th Geas included
further afield stuff.  Idk the criteria for that list, never bothered.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on October 28, 2013, 01:00:41 AM
Has anyone tried to define tightly and/or complied a list of:
pseudo-1st party  "official" stuff that isn't Official-y enough.
I have (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10871)
(click to show/hide)



Now this is a topic worth discussing.
No its not because it isn't legal for 3.0/3.5

Actually The Ravenloft campaign setting is and "official Wizards of the Coast licensed product". Their Logo is right there on the 2nd page of the book I referenced. It might not be first party material but it is second party material.
This doesn't contradict what I said. ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 28, 2013, 03:18:59 AM
Has anyone tried to define tightly and/or complied a list of:
pseudo-1st party  "official" stuff that isn't Official-y enough.
I have (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10871)
(click to show/hide)
[/spoiler]



Now this is a topic worth discussing.
No its not because it isn't legal for 3.0/3.5

Actually The Ravenloft campaign setting is and "official Wizards of the Coast licensed product". Their Logo is right there on the 2nd page of the book I referenced. It might not be first party material but it is second party material.
This doesn't contradict what I said. ;)

what do you mean by "lapsed license"? Did Wizards of the Coast go back and officially say that the Ravenloft Campaign setting was no longer legal despite their logo existing on the books saying that they have licensed it? Just wondering. I would like to know what makes it so different from either the Dragonlance setting or Dragon Magazine. I was always under the assumption that the Wizards logo was the go to indication that the material was OK to use,other than what my DM says is good.

Im wondering what causes Ravenloft to be excluded from being acceptable other table to table interpretations of what is legal. If I cannot trust the Wizards logo than what is the point of its existence in the first place.
 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 28, 2013, 07:11:52 PM
PLZ = thanks = awesome.


... If I cannot trust the Wizards logo than what is the point of its existence in the first place.
What makes you think, Wizards wasn't leading you around by your nose the whole time?
 :D ;)



Many of the book writers put out web expansions of material
they had worked on for whatever specific book, but didn't
make the final editing cut.  Like Ed Bonny here:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_main.htm

I guess this is a category like Hyperconscious.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 28, 2013, 07:30:12 PM
@deadkitten, many of the companies have had the licensing revoked.

anything they created before getting or after losing the license, are officially UN-licensed.

anything created while they HAD the license is officially licensed.

the biggest was Paizo's Dragon/Dungeon magazines.

myself, along with some others, consider these licensed material from other companies as '2nd party material'.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 29, 2013, 07:36:12 AM
myself, along with some others, consider these licensed material from other companies as '2nd party material'.
Indeed, I'm one of them. The concept is quite well spread too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 29, 2013, 11:23:16 AM
What? We agree on something? :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on October 29, 2013, 11:34:44 AM
The Sang Kauw acts as a double weapon and comes with a "buckler" shield. However, by RAW, it does not come with an armor check penalty or arcane spell failure. A shield for a wizard that doesn't need to be mithral. Nice change of pace.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 29, 2013, 12:13:47 PM
hmm... weird

edit:

Raptor Arrow in MIC has no HD requirement for the True Believer feat!!!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on October 29, 2013, 02:08:05 PM
That feat doesn't have a HD pre-req usually.  :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 29, 2013, 06:15:17 PM
The feat doesn't, but the relics do.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 30, 2013, 03:39:51 PM
PLZ = thanks = awesome.


... If I cannot trust the Wizards logo than what is the point of its existence in the first place.
What makes you think, Wizards wasn't leading you around by your nose the whole time?
 :D ;)



Many of the book writers put out web expansions of material
they had worked on for whatever specific book, but didn't
make the final editing cut.  Like Ed Bonny here:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_main.htm

I guess this is a category like Hyperconscious.

I am aware of the Ravenloft web expansions and am not counting them. they do not have the wizards logo and I automatically assumed that they were not legal. however the books do have the wizards licencing logo on them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on October 30, 2013, 04:58:25 PM
@deadkitten, many of the companies have had the licensing revoked.

anything they created before getting or after losing the license, are officially UN-licensed.

anything created while they HAD the license is officially licensed.

the biggest was Paizo's Dragon/Dungeon magazines.

myself, along with some others, consider these licensed material from other companies as '2nd party material'.

I know that their license reverted back to Wizards in August of 2005. the books I have from the ravenloft setting were published prior to this date.
For example:
Champions of Darkness (2002)
Denizens of Darkness (2002)
Heroes of Light (2002)
legacy of the Blood (2004)
Ravenloft Campaign Setting 3.0 (2002)
Ravenloft Campaign Setting 3.5 (2003)
Ravenloft Dungeon Masters guide (2003)
Ravenloft Gazetteer 1 (2002)
Ravenloft Gazetteer 2 (2003)
Ravenloft Gazetteer 3 (2003)
Ravenloft Gazetteer 4 (2004)
Ravenloft Gazetteer 5 (2004)
Secrets of the Dread Realms (2002)
Van Rictens arsenal 1 (2002)
Van Rictens guide to the walking dead (2003)

So if they were published BEFORE the license reverted back to Wizards then they would be 2nd party correct?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 30, 2013, 07:08:09 PM
Absolutely :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on October 30, 2013, 09:05:56 PM
And whether you find them therefore still legal depends on if you think retroactive actions are acceptable. Its the KoK stuff all over again.  :beathorse
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on October 30, 2013, 10:15:30 PM
Dammit, this thread doesn't need another KoK fight.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 30, 2013, 10:22:32 PM
Dammit, this thread doesn't need another KoK fight.
Isn't KoK fighting illegal in all 50 states now?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 31, 2013, 01:08:34 AM
Here's a great new find!!!!! NOTHING :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 31, 2013, 04:28:23 PM
Having a KoK fight in Ravenloft ... and exactly at Halloween ...  :o


There are no coincidences.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 31, 2013, 05:38:32 PM
Needs more Monk Unarmed Strikes ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 31, 2013, 06:51:52 PM
And then the Succubus said "Are you proficient with that?"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on November 01, 2013, 12:12:31 AM
And then the Succubus said "Are you proficient with that?"
"Want me to show you a weapon drill?"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 01, 2013, 11:17:04 AM
And then the Succubus said "Are you proficient with that?"
"Want me to show you a weapon drill?"
"With your base? Perhaps if you were better equipped..."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 01, 2013, 01:53:26 PM
There's a paragraph in the RC about pounce:

Quote
Pounce
When a creature that has this extraordinary special attack charges, it can still make a full attack even if it charged while restricted to a single action. All its attacks receive the +2 bonus on attack rolls gained from charging. If it uses its attacks to successfully start a grapple, and it has the rake ability, it can also make rake attacks.

First line says pounce still works even when the character is slowed and such (restricted to a single action).  Second line makes it absolutely clear that all attacks on a pounce get the +2 from the charge.  Third line contradicts the actual rake rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#rake) which say:

Quote
A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

Although the RC's Rake entry does clarify this by saying:
Quote
A monster that has the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake. It can’t begin a grapple and rake during the same turn unless it has the pounce ability or some other ability that allows it to start a grapple and rake during the same turn.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 01, 2013, 03:31:29 PM
Upgrades!

Brings out the minor rules problem of:
how good a movement you have to have,
before you get Slowed, and yet can still
use the Charge part of the Pounce.

Surreal didn't index Rake. 
Boldly go where no C.O. has gone before.
(weenie filter strikes before I can search = dang not again)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on November 01, 2013, 04:22:13 PM
There's a paragraph in the RC about pounce:

Quote
Pounce
When a creature that has this extraordinary special attack charges, it can still make a full attack even if it charged while restricted to a single action. All its attacks receive the +2 bonus on attack rolls gained from charging. If it uses its attacks to successfully start a grapple, and it has the rake ability, it can also make rake attacks.

First line says pounce still works even when the character is slowed and such (restricted to a single action).  Second line makes it absolutely clear that all attacks on a pounce get the +2 from the charge.  Third line contradicts the actual rake rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#rake) which say:

Quote
A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

Although the RC's Rake entry does clarify this by saying:
Quote
A monster that has the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake. It can’t begin a grapple and rake during the same turn unless it has the pounce ability or some other ability that allows it to start a grapple and rake during the same turn.

That's funny, because Leopard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/leopard.htm)s can rake on a charge without even starting a grapple.

Quote
Pounce (Ex)
If a leopard charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 01, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
Specific over General

kind of like some creatures being able to imp grab larger creatures
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on November 01, 2013, 11:07:08 PM
Thaalud Stone Armor
- ANAUROCH: THE EMPIRE OF SHADE (3.5)
heavy armor; cost 2,800 gp; armor bonus +12; max Dex bonus +0; armor check penalty –8; arcane spell failure 40%; speed 30 ft./20 ft., 20 ft./15 ft.; weight 180 lb.

Okay, make it out of blended quartz -20 % arcane spell failure.
Githcrafted -5%
Thistledown -5%

How do I get that last 10% of arcane spell failure gone from my suit of armor?
I'd prefer not to use feats or classes. Items only, please.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on November 01, 2013, 11:21:03 PM
+1 Twilight.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 02, 2013, 12:12:59 AM
+1 Twilight.

I hate Stephanie Meyer.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on November 02, 2013, 12:59:21 AM
+1 Twilight.

Ah. Explorer's Handbook. Forgot about that. Thank you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on November 02, 2013, 03:31:49 AM
I was going to nitpick about using a special material that replaces metal for armor normally made of stone, but it turns out blended quartz doesn't specify what material it replaces.  I guess you could make blended quartz padded armor if you wanted to.  I wanted to come up with an example with armor that's flexible and has a high arcane spell failure chance, but there isn't a convenient place to find all the obscure types of armor yet (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11653). 

The most recent printing of the twilight armor ability is in Player's Handbook II (on page 21).  It also appeared in Book of Exalted Deeds, which is older than Explorer's Handbook, but less obscure. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 02, 2013, 03:12:12 PM
That's true for Deep Crystal (talks about bows and slings) but Mundane specifies metal when used for weapons and armor. But says any other item can be made from the crystal.
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm#crystalMundane)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on November 02, 2013, 03:52:33 PM
The most recent printing of the twilight armor ability is in Player's Handbook II (on page 21).  It also appeared in Book of Exalted Deeds, which is older than Explorer's Handbook, but less obscure.
Pretty sure most recent printing is MIC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 02, 2013, 04:19:53 PM
I think there is a Dragon mag option that could help, along w Reinforced for +1 armor bonus, Segmented for +1 max Dex.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on November 03, 2013, 10:14:00 PM
+1 Twilight.

I hate Stephanie Meyer.
Wouldn't that be a -2 Cursed Twilight?  :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on November 04, 2013, 05:35:51 AM
I'm probably wrong but, a monk with:
Quote
Shadow Blend (Su): In any conditions other than full daylight, a 7th-level Dark Moon Disciple can disappear into the shadows, gaining total concealment.
Artificial light does not negate this ability, though a daylight spell does.

And a persistent Cloak of Dark Power (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/cloak-of-dark-power--1190/)
Quote
Cloak of dark power creates a dusky haze around the subject.
The haze does not interfere with vision, but the subject and anything she wears or carries is protected from the effects of full sunlight, even under the open, daytime sky of the surface world.
A drow subject suffers no blindness or bright light combat penalties while under the effects of a cloak of dark power.
The subject also gains a +4 resistance bonus on saves against light or darkness spells or effects.

One of the "effects" of full sunlight is that you are in full sunlight and can be seen by everyone. So by a RAW reading you could say this first level spell makes Shadow blend even more ridiculous.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on November 04, 2013, 07:42:12 AM
wrong thread  :shakefist   :bigeyes
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 04, 2013, 11:39:14 AM
And a persistent Cloak of Dark Power (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/cloak-of-dark-power--1190/)
Drow 1? That must be a Domain which means a single dip into Cleric can pull it off (planning/undeath domain, pick up persist in a spare Feat slot).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on November 04, 2013, 11:48:19 AM
Strange Observation:

For anyone who would argue that 3.0 is not part of 3.5 cannon:

LIVING CORAL
- STORMWRACK (3.5)
Coral armor is heavy and difficult to craft (see page 15 of the Arms and Equipment Guide). An expensive alternative is growing a casing of living coral over the wearer.

One of the last books ever published of official 3.5 cannon, Stormwrack, directly references, by page number, the A&EG, which is so 3.0 it is not funny.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on November 04, 2013, 12:08:47 PM
And a persistent Cloak of Dark Power (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/cloak-of-dark-power--1190/)
Drow 1? That must be a Domain which means a single dip into Cleric can pull it off (planning/undeath domain, pick up persist in a spare Feat slot).

That, or paying an Artificer for a custom continuous item, if you don't want to be a Drow.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 04, 2013, 05:49:51 PM
... or have Lolth spying on you all the time.  Lolth is worse than the NSA, trust me I know.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on November 04, 2013, 06:15:22 PM
Strange Observation:

For anyone who would argue that 3.0 is not part of 3.5 cannon:

LIVING CORAL
- STORMWRACK (3.5)
Coral armor is heavy and difficult to craft (see page 15 of the Arms and Equipment Guide). An expensive alternative is growing a casing of living coral over the wearer.

One of the last books ever published of official 3.5 cannon, Stormwrack, directly references, by page number, the A&EG, which is so 3.0 it is not funny.
:twitch It's right there. Page 106.
 :lmao
Wonderful find.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 05, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Have we mentioned the Ring of Anticipation yet? 8K, +2 Spot and Listen, and the constant benefit of being able to roll twice and take the better result on any Initiative check.

In case I didn't make that last part clear, it's a constant benefit. DotU.

Edit: And apparently DotU has an item that gives you Abrupt Jaunt 3/day. The Shadow Cloak costs 5,500gp, gives a +1 Deflection bonus to AC, and 3/day as an immediate action you can either get Concealment for one round or teleport 10ft.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 05, 2013, 11:02:25 AM
Have we mentioned the Ring of Anticipation yet? 8K, +2 Spot and Listen, and the constant benefit of being able to roll twice and take the better result on any Initiative check.

In case I didn't make that last part clear, it's a constant benefit.
Yeah, that's one of the items I always buy as soon as I can afford it for almost all characters.
Title: Beekeeper Monk
Post by: Captnq on November 05, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
Okay, go HERE (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11730.msg199829#msg199829) and tell me if the beekeeper Outfit can (not) be used to give a monk armor.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on November 05, 2013, 04:57:13 PM
you can already put armour magic things on normal outfits, iirc.

so yeah, monks are fine wearing +1 beesuit, but they are just as fine wearing +1 monks outfit.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on November 05, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
you can already put armour magic things on normal outfits, iirc.

so yeah, monks are fine wearing +1 beesuit, but they are just as fine wearing +1 monks outfit.

Well, actually, That's not RAW.

A monk's outfit has no AC. The beekeeper outfit is the only outfit that actually gives an Armor Bonus.

In order to make something into magic armor, it must be masterwork armor.

While you can make anything masterwork, it is not clear that a masterwork monk outfit, in anyway is masterwork armor. However, if you know where it states I can put Armor Special Abilities in masterwork clothing, I would love the book and page number.

A masterwork beekeeper Outfit would be absolutely, 100% masterwork armor, since it does grant Armor Bonus. Yet, it is not listed as Light, med, heavy armor, so it would not fall under armor classification to affect a monk.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on November 06, 2013, 02:12:24 AM
you can already put armour magic things on normal outfits, iirc.

so yeah, monks are fine wearing +1 beesuit, but they are just as fine wearing +1 monks outfit.

Well, actually, That's not RAW.

A monk's outfit has no AC. The beekeeper outfit is the only outfit that actually gives an Armor Bonus.

In order to make something into magic armor, it must be masterwork armor.

While you can make anything masterwork, it is not clear that a masterwork monk outfit, in anyway is masterwork armor. However, if you know where it states I can put Armor Special Abilities in masterwork clothing, I would love the book and page number.

A masterwork beekeeper Outfit would be absolutely, 100% masterwork armor, since it does grant Armor Bonus. Yet, it is not listed as Light, med, heavy armor, so it would not fall under armor classification to affect a monk.

I'd recommend just using an Obi of the White Louts (from Dragon 325). Grants +4 Armors bonus to AC, plus miss chance if you're a normal monk.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on November 06, 2013, 07:16:09 AM
I'd recommend just using an Obi of the White Louts (from Dragon 325). Grants +4 Armors bonus to AC, plus miss chance if you're a normal monk.

Except yours is Dragon Magazine, likely to be banned at most tables.

Bee Keeper Suit is Arms and Equipment guide, which is 3.0 and legal for 3.5 due to never being updated/errata'd/disqualified, and actually as was pointed out recently by Captnq I think, the A&EG is called out and referenced in Stormwrack, an unarguable 3.5 book.

So basically, it's way more likely to be approved in actual play, making it practical optimization.


My opinion on the armour, it's a valid way to get armour enhancements on a monk. I cannot see how a DM could disallow it without breaking lots of other stuff. or just banning it...which is no fun.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 06, 2013, 08:06:50 AM
My opinion on the armour, it's a valid way to get armour enhancements on a monk. I cannot see how a DM could disallow it without breaking lots of other stuff. or just banning it...which is no fun.
MiC 233, adding Common Effects to Existing [Magic] Items. You can add AC bonuses you any item you buy, including a Monk's Belt or Hat of Disguise.

You should read the entire back section of the MiC page to page. Like around 225 or so it flat out says Players can buy Partially Charged Wands which is an argument ender into it's self. Lot's of cool stuff in there to see if you've never read it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on November 06, 2013, 09:09:27 AM
My opinion on the armour, it's a valid way to get armour enhancements on a monk. I cannot see how a DM could disallow it without breaking lots of other stuff. or just banning it...which is no fun.
MiC 233, adding Common Effects to Existing [Magic] Items. You can add AC bonuses you any item you buy, including a Monk's Belt or Hat of Disguise.

You should read the entire back section of the MiC page to page. Like around 225 or so it flat out says Players can buy Partially Charged Wands which is an argument ender into it's self. Lot's of cool stuff in there to see if you've never read it.

Oh yes. I agree.

However, I have had agruments with people who said flat out:
NO COMBINING MAGIC ITEMS.
NO CUSTOM MAGIC ITEMS.

Then I get into the "What about WSAs, ASAs thing?" And they go, "You are adding it to armor and that's how it's written, but you can't add them to unique weapons or armor... blah blah blah..."

DMs limit games in weird ways. And I can understand, I mean, the triple dagger. That thing is just broken. But you can't count on every method always being available. So every option must be explored so that should I be giving advice to someone who wants to play a monk for a DM who refuses to play with all the MIC combining magic item rules (Which is the entire basis for my Extrapolated Weapon Special Ability Section of my Weapon Handbook, BTW), then this is a fall back.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on November 06, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Talisman of Malar (Dragon #289, p94) is a holy symbol of natural armor +1. A lycanthrope wearer also gets a +4 deflection bonus to AC, for less than the cost of a normal deflection bonus item.

The alchemist's flask (1,800gp) from the same issue is pretty cool - "fluids, powders and leaves" poured into it mix quickly and evenly (even if normally immiscible), and a command word causes each component to pour out separately. Uses mentioned include making tea, extracting poisons, and checking the quality of water.
The rose of kings (10,000gp) is a flask that prevents all the people who drink from it from lying to each other (but not other creatures) for 1 hour with no saving throw, though the specifics make it impossible to trick people into it.
The spy glass (16,000gp) lets you see through any wall you place it against... but only walls, and they must be constructed or carved.

Golden the Clockwork Cat from #299 is a 12,000gp construct that can be designated as its owner's familiar, gaining all standard benefits.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 07, 2013, 12:12:18 PM
Has anyone tried to define tightly and/or complied a list of:
pseudo-1st party  "official" stuff that isn't Official-y enough.
I have (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10871)
(click to show/hide)
[/spoiler]



Now this is a topic worth discussing.
No its not because it isn't legal for 3.0/3.5

Actually The Ravenloft campaign setting is and "official Wizards of the Coast licensed product". Their Logo is right there on the 2nd page of the book I referenced. It might not be first party material but it is second party material.
This doesn't contradict what I said. ;)
You have Planar Handbook listed as an unupdated 3.0 supplement.  It is absolutely a 3.5 book.

In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, Abjurant Champion is an amazing class to add to a dragon.  Dragon's have a BAB that far surpasses their caster level.  The 5th level ability of Abj. Champ. is to set your CL equal to your BAB.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 07, 2013, 05:15:15 PM
Great book list PLZ.

iirc - Power of Faerun has 1 useful crunch in it, the uncapping of (non-epic) Leadership.

(been a long time, very hazy on details at this point)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 07, 2013, 06:19:40 PM
iirc - Power of Faerun has 1 useful crunch in it, the uncapping of (non-epic) Leadership.
There is an Initiate Feat that adds Time Stop to the Cleric (and Paladin's List) floating in there somewhere too.

Court Herald also has super Authypnosis. You can take a snapshot of everything you see around you and retain it forever. But it could single handedly replace dozens of Knowledge checks if you snap a picture well placed scrolls, depending on your DM of course ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on November 07, 2013, 08:00:12 PM
Thanks KSBSO, I often mixup MotP and PlH. My bad.
Great book list PLZ.

iirc - Power of Faerun has 1 useful crunch in it, the uncapping of (non-epic) Leadership
Ty and unfortunately no. The Rulership feat looks good but appears to use optional rules. The Epic leadership stuff specifically doesn't help the non-epic PCs (p154 on).

Kasz we don't normally worry about DMs that ban Drag Mags or don't allow "tome" of battle or say no to psionics because it is "broken" ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 08, 2013, 03:34:43 PM
Oops.
My old kitty avatar might have known some of that, but my newer sexier kitty avatar is licking his "wounds" right now.
 :tongue  :hmm  :puke hair balls
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 09, 2013, 05:48:35 PM
Harpooned is a condition, is there a way to give them a condition besides spearing them?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 09, 2013, 07:23:46 PM
Harpooned is a condition, is there a way to give them a condition besides spearing them?
Gynecology check ups?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on November 11, 2013, 11:12:54 PM
You can (well, I did) cheese your way into Shadowcraft Mage at level 1.

Human Sorcerer 1; Con 13+ Wis 13+
Human: Earth Sense,
Level 1: Heighten Spell,
Flaw: Earth Spell,
Flaw: Versatile Spellcaster,
Two more feats from whichever way you like (I used Pact Insidious)
Spell Focus (Illusion) and [Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell) or Metamagic School Focus (Illusion)]
Have one of the Illusion [Shadow] level 1 spells as your spells known, and two of the Illusion cantrips.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on November 12, 2013, 05:49:38 AM
Never mind, it's too early and I'm an idiot.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 14, 2013, 06:23:15 PM
I vaguely remember seeing something about using metamagic feats on psionics... Where is this from?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on November 14, 2013, 06:30:26 PM
There was a feat (or was it a class feature?) in a Dragon Mag that let you do that, I think.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 14, 2013, 07:39:56 PM
Hmm... I was remembering more of a variant or something listed in a book.

Windghost (MM2) has darkvision as a SA!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 15, 2013, 04:17:32 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/oqXxgWe.png)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Skevvix on November 15, 2013, 04:46:56 AM
Where is that hatch?  I want to stay as far away as possible.   :(
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on November 15, 2013, 06:09:31 AM
The adventurer's that choose hatch B are going to have a tough couple of rounds...

This is stupid and probably doesn't work but is a nice and silly reading of RAW.
Quote from: Fist of the Forest
Feral Trance (Su): Once per day, you can enter a feral battle trance. While you are in this state, the raw power of the beast flows through you. Your hands and feet become clawlike (destroying any shoes or gloves you are wearing)

So if I have boots made from adamantine, then wear them, then trance. They're destroyed?

Put on a pair of artifact gloves, then destroy them by growing claws?

Put on a pair of Colossal boots as a medium character, apparently my medium sized toenails shred them instantly?

It's RAWtarded, I know.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 15, 2013, 08:04:57 AM
Where is that hatch?  I want to stay as far away as possible.   :(
The ridiculous thing is that that's from a 2E adventure, where you have a lot less hp than in 3.5...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 15, 2013, 08:57:55 AM
Where is that hatch?  I want to stay as far away as possible.   :(
The ridiculous thing is that that's from a 2E adventure, where you have a lot less hp than in 3.5...
lol, better have a Feather Fall prepared.  :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on November 15, 2013, 11:34:23 AM
Where is that hatch?  I want to stay as far away as possible.   :(
The ridiculous thing is that that's from a 2E adventure, where you have a lot less hp than in 3.5...
lol, better have a Feather Fall prepared.  :lol
Glyph for 14d4 + 60hp maximum on PWK... that's average of (effectively) 95 HP damage, and I don't see a save listed. Assuming that you did have Feather Fall, even... and in 2e, that's a hell of a lot more health than it sounds like, yeah? (123 effective if you take the 8d6 falling)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 15, 2013, 01:02:25 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/oqXxgWe.png)
My favorite and most memorable 2e module.  I think I'm going to run a 3.5 converted version of it after my viking game finishes up (still over a year from now).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 15, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
I vaguely remember seeing something about using metamagic feats on psionics... Where is this from?
There was a feat (or was it a class feature?) in a Dragon Mag that let you do that, I think.

Yep.
Dr#349 Cerebremetamagic feat goes either way, or make scrolls of psi powers via the
Chameleon Crafting feat and have the party Wiz/Archivist eat the slightly higher cost.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on November 15, 2013, 04:21:17 PM
(click to show/hide)
My favorite and most memorable 2e module.  I think I'm going to run a 3.5 converted version of it after my viking game finishes up (still over a year from now).

(click to show/hide)
I think there was a very similar trap in Ruins of Myth Drannor, though I think it had a Blade Barrier.  I just remember a TPK was only avoided due to a ring of regeneration.  For extra fun, the tunnel only let to a second hatch that released a bunch of Devils from stasis.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on November 15, 2013, 04:25:29 PM
Dark Sun PrC2 - Obstinate Soul = +1 level existing class features @ 1st level for Dwarves ECL 5.

Dwarves for the bloodline god!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 15, 2013, 06:48:06 PM
Not so much a "fun" find as an annoying one: The Improved Overrun (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedOverrun) feat doesn't get rid of the AoO.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on November 15, 2013, 06:58:55 PM
Not so much a "fun" find as an annoying one: The Improved Overrun (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedOverrun) feat doesn't get rid of the AoO.
While annoying, I can kind of understand why.  Normally, Overrun gives your opponent the choice to just avoid it or to make an AoO against you at the risk of being knocked over.  Improved Overrun means they no longer get to make the "just avoid it" choice, so in the interest of balance, the designers made it not a "lose-lose" feat for the opponent.  They missed a number of key factors (namely Overrun sucks) on their decision and I am not saying they did a good job, but I can understand why they did it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 19, 2013, 04:10:40 PM
The feat Fiendish Legacy gives anyone willing to invest 2 feats Teleport 1/day with a CL equal to their character level (significantly easier investment than Greater Dragonmark, although it lacks uses/day and item/feat/PrC support). Complete Mage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 19, 2013, 05:06:56 PM
... character level 9 is right on time. 
Also gets SM5 and Unholy Blight.
Prereq feat is situational decent.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on November 19, 2013, 05:20:35 PM
Paired is a +1 Shield Enhancement. Technically, you don't have to actually touch anyone else, and since there is no facing, anyone in a square next to yours with a paired shield grants you a bonus to your AC.

Wrapping is a +1 Shield enhancement that lets you "stick" to a target. Both you and the target suffer a -5 to your rolls and a -2 to hit.

Get a platoon of men with Paired Wrapping shields. They swarm someone. They shield bash then activate the wrapping. Each man clinging to you is another -2 to hit and -5 to all other rolls. Each man gains a +1 to his AC. Keep sticking city guards on someone until they collapse from the sheer weight and penalties.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on November 19, 2013, 07:31:48 PM
Paired is a +1 Shield Enhancement. Technically, you don't have to actually touch anyone else, and since there is no facing, anyone in a square next to yours with a paired shield grants you a bonus to your AC.

Wrapping is a +1 Shield enhancement that lets you "stick" to a target. Both you and the target suffer a -5 to your rolls and a -2 to hit.

Get a platoon of men with Paired Wrapping shields. They swarm someone. They shield bash then activate the wrapping. Each man clinging to you is another -2 to hit and -5 to all other rolls. Each man gains a +1 to his AC. Keep sticking city guards on someone until they collapse from the sheer weight and penalties.
Did we just find a way to make a katamari ball?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 19, 2013, 08:26:31 PM
Dark Sun Prestige 1 has a 3.5 PrC of the Soulknife! So be a Soulknife 10/Soulknife 10 ;)
Dune Trader grants a cohort, which stacks w other cohorts.

#2 Dragon Warrior grants a roc animal companion at 9th total level.
Judaga Warrior gets the ability to coup de grace as a free action.
Royal Animator can change corpses' abilities for animation.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on November 19, 2013, 09:45:21 PM
A female Avebury circle megalith (Dragon 297, p49) is an epic magic item that allows anyone who casts reincarnate while touching it to choose the new form instead of rolling randomly.  Despite explicitly being an epic item, it only costs 162,400 gp. 

A lesser folio (Dragon 297, p45) is a non-epic item, despite being written up inside the writeup of an epic item.  It gives a +10 enhancement bonus on perform checks involving words or music for a price of 12,800 gp.  If your DM allows un-updated 3.0 material without adjustment, that's a nice addition to whatever competence bonus you're already getting. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 20, 2013, 10:54:03 AM
Master Alchemist can make a potion of wish and miracle!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on November 20, 2013, 11:57:37 AM
Dark Sun Prestige 1 has a 3.5 PrC of the Soulknife!

ara, i've been mentioning that prestige for nigh on a year now. =P

and don't forget the prestige qualifies for most soulknife feats, and usually gets twice the benefit! practiced mind blade, anyone?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on November 20, 2013, 12:09:06 PM
For the cost of 2 feats from Dragon Compendium, any spontaneous arcane caster can turn undead:  Necromantic Bloodline + Kin Mastery.  Would that then qualify you for Extra Turning perhaps and open up other fun stuff?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 20, 2013, 12:23:25 PM
What? I've been looking for that kind of thing! Thanks Ith
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 20, 2013, 12:51:48 PM
Let's take Slayer's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) Enemy Sense ability out of context and say it can also apply to a ranger's favored enemies.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 20, 2013, 01:18:29 PM
Let's take Slayer's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) Enemy Sense ability out of context and say it can also apply to a ranger's favored enemies.
Eh, Nemesis is better.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on November 20, 2013, 01:21:25 PM
Yeah, especially considering the actual PrC from XPH specifies illithids.  They just aren't OGL, so the SRD can't use their name.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 20, 2013, 01:23:08 PM
Let's take Slayer's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) Enemy Sense ability out of context and say it can also apply to a ranger's favored enemies.
Eh, Nemesis is better.
So long as one qualifies as Exalted, I agree.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on November 20, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
Play a warforged artificer. Get your hands on a light crossbow with the steel crossbowDr349 upgrade (allowing it to be used as a melee weapon), then use it to create an arbalesterMoE homunculus (feel free to upgrade it through extra HD and the Improved Homunculus (http://dndtools.eu/feats/magic-of-eberron--9/improved-homunculus--1510/)MoE feat). Now take the lv5 warforged artificer substitution level from Races of Eberron and designate the steel crossbow as your weapon familiar.

Exactly what benefits the arbalester would get from this are unclear, but under one possible interpretation it would gain Improved Evasion, hardness, and bonus hp equal to half your own.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 20, 2013, 05:01:02 PM
The Battle Trickster PrC can be adapted to use Fighter Bonus Feats instead of Skill Tricks, making it an excellent 3-level dip (full BAB, d10HD, +3 feats, decent skills). Likewise with the Uncanny Trickster (although it specifies "feats that enhance mobility" and doesn't give a guideline as to which ones).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 20, 2013, 05:11:42 PM
... pity the fools that took the Fighter Base class and had multiclassing penalties.
 :P
That's enough pity.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 20, 2013, 05:14:45 PM

... Soulknife / Soulknife ...

... soulknife ...

Don't forget the un-updated 3.0e Soulknife PrC
and the 17 Dead Soulknives major Bloodline.
 = Soulknife / Soulknife / Soulknife / Soulknife.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 20, 2013, 05:40:09 PM
Likewise with the Uncanny Trickster (although it specifies "feats that enhance mobility" and doesn't give a guideline as to which ones).
Hmmm.... would Improved Skirmish fall under that purview?

I will look into these more closely when I get home...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 21, 2013, 09:25:09 AM
I will look into these more closely when I get home...
I have it on my laptop so allow me.

Quote from: Battle Trickster
Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, you gain a bonus feat for which you meet the prerequisite. This feat must be selected from the list of fighter bonus feats.

Adaptation
The battle trickster is already a very generalized prestige class that can easily fit into any campaign setting. It does rely on the new rules for skill tricks, however, so it is not suitable for a campaign that does not incorporate them. Replacing bonus tricks with extra feats from the fighter list can repurpose the character as a combat specialist with a more generalized approach to skills.
I'd say any Feat, this thing replaces Fighter much like a Warblade.

Edit - Wait I see it. He's talking about the Uncanny Trickster.
Quote
Bonus Trick (Ex): At each level, you gain a bonus skill trick for which you meet the prerequisite. These bonus tricks do not cost skill points and do not count against your maximum number of skill tricks available.

Adaptation
The uncanny trickster is already a very generalized prestige class that can easily fit into any campaign setting. It does rely on the new rules for skill tricks, however, so it is not suitable for a campaign that does not incorporate them. Replacing bonus tricks with extra feats that enhance movement and defense can repurpose the character as a sneaky combatant with a more generalized approach to skills.

Edit 2 - Man, that really empowers the Hellfire Warlock / Uncanny Trickster(hellfire) / Legacy Champion(uncanny) combination. Instead of a ton of Skill Tricks you have a ton of Feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 21, 2013, 11:17:45 AM
Quote
Replacing bonus tricks with extra feats that enhance movement and defense...
So, that would include:
Dodge [maybe]
Mobility
Spring Attack
Flyby Attack (and improved)
The various improvements to Flyby Attack from Savage Species and Draconomicon
Improved Flight (RotW)
Improved Maneuverability (Drac)
Improved Skirmish
Hover
Wingover

I'm sure there are tons more; that was just off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on November 21, 2013, 11:58:18 AM
Quote
Replacing bonus tricks with extra feats that enhance movement and defense...
So, that would include:
Dodge [maybe]
Mobility
Spring Attack
Flyby Attack (and improved)
The various improvements to Flyby Attack from Savage Species and Draconomicon
Improved Flight (RotW)
Improved Maneuverability (Drac)
Improved Skirmish
Hover
Wingover

I'm sure there are tons more; that was just off the top of my head.
... How could you forget the glory that is Run?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 21, 2013, 12:10:23 PM
I find the Steeldance spell from SpC interesting. You have relatively high atk/dmg since it's based on your CL and spellcasting attribute, and you can use daggers with nice enchantments. Nice kinda low-op spell, if only it was persistable...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 21, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Defense really opens a bunch too. Like the +2 to a Save line, Steadfast Determination, or Exotic Armor Proficiency.

Roll with It (or it's 3.5 dragon alternative endure blows) would be a great one for tank-style play. Stacking DR 2/- per level of Uncanny Trickster. Add Legacy Champion 10 and Heavy Adamantine Armor to the mix and that's DR 25/-
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 21, 2013, 12:42:29 PM
Unless a feat specifically says it can be taken multiple times, it can't.  The language for Endure Blows (http://dndtools.eu/feats/draconomicon--92/endure-blows--3207/) only allows it to stack with something like heavy adamantine armor, not let it be taken multiple times.  However, Roll With It (http://dndtools.eu/feats/savage-species--47/roll-with-it--2468/) does have that specific wording so a lenient DM might allow that version.

And let's not get into the issue of it being "unupdated" because the update has a different name.  It is very clearly the same effect done exactly the same way.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 21, 2013, 01:22:34 PM
Unless a feat specifically says it can be taken multiple times, it can't.
I know, what I didn't was Endure Blows lacked the same cause Roll with it did. Improved Damage Reduction and Thick Skin stack just fine as well. And speaking of;

And let's not get into the issue of it being "unupdated" because the update has a different name.  It is very clearly the same effect done exactly the same way.
So, you're saying  the Monsterous Dragon-Only nonstacking Endure Blows is a clearly a 3.5 update to the General Roll with it that provides a stacking Bonus without a single rules quote?

What, am I to believe the infinitely stacking Warforged-Only Improved Damage Reduction Feat is a clear update to the Monstrous stacks-only-to-double-the-original-value Thick Skin as well?  :rolleyes

Edit: Oh wait, forgot Damage Reduction. A 3.0 Epic Feat that provides a stacking +3/- bonus that made it into the 3.5 SRD. Boy I wondered what you think that was updated to...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 21, 2013, 02:09:26 PM
Thick-Skinned (http://dndtools.eu/feats/savage-species--47/thick-skinned--2904/) is very clearly not the same as Improved Damage Reduction (http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/improved-damage-reduction--1464/).  The benefits are entirely different.  Are you trying to use hyperbole or something?

Damage Reduction (http://dndtools.eu/feats/epic-level-handbook--41/damage-reduction--501/) from the EPH was updated to Damage Reduction (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/damage-reduction--500/) in CW.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 21, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
Nah just pointing out a load of crap when I see it.

There is nothing backing up your claim Endure Blows is the 3.5 update to Roll with it and the two, as you so aptly put, are quite different. Not to mention Savage Species per word of god counts as 3.5 Material anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 21, 2013, 02:33:41 PM
I said that Thick-Skinned is quite different from Improved Damage Reduction, which anyone can tell they are at a glance.  The benefits are not done the same way and Thick-Skinned isn't even valid in 3.5 due to getting rid of DR/+1 and such.

SS counts as 3.5 per word of god eh?  I guess it's a good thing I'm agnostic and apatheist.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FlaminCows on November 21, 2013, 03:19:04 PM
Quote
Replacing bonus tricks with extra feats that enhance movement and defense...
So, that would include:
Dodge [maybe]
Mobility
Spring Attack
Flyby Attack (and improved)
The various improvements to Flyby Attack from Savage Species and Draconomicon
Improved Flight (RotW)
Improved Maneuverability (Drac)
Improved Skirmish
Hover
Wingover

I'm sure there are tons more; that was just off the top of my head.
... How could you forget the glory that is Run?

Don't forget Freerunner (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/freerunner--1192/). Trade your skill tricks for... twice as many skill tricks!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 21, 2013, 03:38:26 PM
 :lol that's hilarious ; and cute!


'Course the BT has a this tall to ride, set of pre-reqs,
whereas Fighter is open to zombie babies.


BT at 3rd level has:
Tricky Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, you have mastered incorporating skill tricks into your combat routines. In any round when you perform a skill trick, you gain a +1 competence bonus on the next attack roll you make that round.

Any of the skill tricks take Free Actions?
(idk way too long since book access)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 21, 2013, 07:21:49 PM
Any of the skill tricks take Free Actions?
There are quite few. Most of them trigger as part of another Action or are Swift based additions.

Example, you walk into a room and see an opponent, the Knowledge Check triggers Collector of Stories and you decide to spend a Full-Round Action Charging your opponent, triggering Twist and/or Nimble Charge, but as you do you leap into the air spending a Swift Action to use Extreme Leap, you toss in a Tumble Check for freebie Acrobatic Backstab for bonus points and after you successfully hit you use Mosquito's Bite to delay your opponent's reaction.

Then during the next round you realize you just used 6 Skill Tricks to your single Attack and probably should have banked a few to make usage of Tricky Fighting. ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 22, 2013, 04:59:01 PM
New Sorcerer based gish combo: Persist Ghost Form & Ghost Trap = Charisma replaces Strength.
(arguably, ghost form + ghost touch weapons works, not 100% spelled out in the rules through)

Ghost Form grants the Incorporeal Subytype. It's important to obtain the Subtype over simply becoming Incorporeal if you never want to hear someone like Jackinthegreen making up counterspell updates, so use the SpC version of the Spell (12/05 printing) rather than the one in LM (10/04 printing, woot).

Ghost Trap forces Incorporeal Creatures to become Corporeal which per LM's Losing Incorporealness on page 143 your Strength Score now equals your permanent Charisma Score. Now, you're "permanent" charisma can change with Leveling, Templates, and Epic Creatures smacking you around so what effects apply could vary between DMs. The exact wording is;
Quote
The now-corporeal creature gains a Strength score equal to its Charisma score (not including any nonpermanent modifiers to Charisma, such as an eagle’s splendor spell). Its incorporeal touch attacks become normal touch attacks (and it uses its Strength modifier on attack rolls unless it has Weapon Finesse).
Me, I'd allow stuff like Inherent, Racial, Age, & Pacts. And could probably be talked into anything without a duration (yep, cloak of charisma +6 works).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 22, 2013, 10:45:43 PM
Speaking of Sorcerers, has there ever been an in-depth look at the Dragonpacts mechanic from Dragon Magic? Trade 1 spell slot for several SLAs, most with multiple uses, all for a little GP.

Granted not all of them are good, but we've come to expect that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on November 23, 2013, 02:08:01 AM
Speaking of Sorcerers, has there ever been an in-depth look at the Dragonpacts mechanic from Dragon Magic? Trade 1 spell slot for several SLAs, most with multiple uses, all for a little GP.

Granted not all of them are good, but we've come to expect that.

There's definite potential there.
Devious Whispers of the Master makes you a decent enchanter.
Friend of Wind and Rain has spells that I wouldn't mind having every day.
A few others are nice. There are also rules for making your own.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 23, 2013, 10:44:23 AM
Speaking of Sorcerers, has there ever been an in-depth look at the Dragonpacts mechanic from Dragon Magic? Trade 1 spell slot for several SLAs, most with multiple uses, all for a little GP.

Granted not all of them are good, but we've come to expect that.
Of course :)

Some are handy, like trade a 7th level Spell with Shadow for almost party wide Nondetection, you'll also pick up DDoor & Shadow Walk, not as direct as Teleport or Greater Planeshift but you can use them to get where you need to go without costing Known Slots. Desert Sun comes with Silent Image and Hallucinatory Terrain which can skip entire Encounters when used creatively and you can apply Quicken Spell-Like Ability to Blur which helps out a bit with you're own defense. Then last by not least Unbridled Fury single handedly picks up the blasting role. Pick up Extraordinary Concentration and Call Lightning deals 3d6 damage per round as a Swift Action while Maximized Call Lightning Storm is up to 50 damage per round. And during those rounds you can freely let loose with Chain Lightning or Shocking Grasp without ever touching your Spell or Known Slots. Hows this for a sale tag; The Role of Blaster, it's only worth a 9th level Slot.  ;)

The others are kind of meh. The Sidebar for creating your own Dragonpacts is of course your best option.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 24, 2013, 03:54:15 AM
Spellguard of Silverymoon can cast any spell normally as a full round action. Even spells with a longer casting time are reduced!

cast Apocalypse from the Sky in a single round instead of a full day.

how would explosive apocalypse work when some creatures are unaffected? Do they take 'falling damage' when other things hit them at neh-infinite speed? Would that propel the unaffected outwards too, at least a little?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on November 24, 2013, 03:37:41 PM
Anima Mage lets you do it as an Immediate action, iirc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 24, 2013, 11:04:59 PM
But that's at much higher level and only 1/day
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Aliek on November 26, 2013, 12:41:41 AM
If we're going for this kind of op, it isn't far fetched that you'd persist unfettered heroism before. Anima mage can be entered very early on, but yeah, it's still a capstone.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 26, 2013, 12:02:29 PM
Page 72 of the Player's Guide to Eberron says half elves born from a human and elven parent instead of to 2 half elves can manifest a human or elven dragonmark.   I have no idea if this would ever be useful to anyone, but it was an unexpected find.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on November 26, 2013, 12:14:39 PM
Well, that contradicts every Eberron book.  Including itself.  Subraces sidebar on page 47 for example.  How nice of them.   :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 26, 2013, 02:38:08 PM
Of all the weird "miscegenation" rules ...

2 Half-Elves make a normal Half-Elf.
Elf and a Human make a new Half-Elf/Half-Human race (even though it's the same as).


I will only eat Green Ham & Eggs, not the other one.  I hate those guys.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on November 26, 2013, 08:07:20 PM
Well it makes sense that a first generation half elf couldn't have the Mark of Storm or Mark of Detection since they can't actually be a descended from one of those families.  The other Half Elves have been an established race of their own for a long enough time to have long since started calling themselves Koravar and have their own culture.  Its essentially two races using the same rules as each other... other than for Dragonmark access.

But every other source says that the only exception to the one mark, one (sub)race rule is House Tharkaash, and their Orc kin get screwed in the deal. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 26, 2013, 08:13:42 PM
Well it makes sense that a first generation half elf couldn't have the Mark of Storm or Mark of Detection since they can't actually be a descended from one of those families.  The other Half Elves have been an established race of their own for a long enough time to have long since started calling themselves Koravar and have their own culture.  Its essentially two races using the same rules as each other... other than for Dragonmark access.

But every other source says that the only exception to the one mark, one (sub)race rule is House Tharkaash, and their Orc kin get screwed in the deal.

Well, if you don't count House Tarkanan... It is nice to give Half-Elves a leg up, but still.

Speaking of, Drow of the Underdark has a very nice feat in the back of the book that turns a Half-Elf into a Half-Drow (and gives free EWP: Hand Crossbow).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Childe on November 26, 2013, 09:31:25 PM
Right next to that feat is a hilarious tidbit.

Quote from: Drow of the Underdark
In the core DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game, the offspring of drow and humans are standard half-elves. The union of a drow and any other creature does not produce children.

Drow cannot have children with other drow. For that matter, pure-blooded Drow only exist in a single generation, it seems (and their origin is a mystery). "Don't worry, guys. We just have to outlast them."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on November 26, 2013, 09:50:57 PM
Right next to that feat is a hilarious tidbit.

Quote from: Drow of the Underdark
In the core DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game, the offspring of drow and humans are standard half-elves. The union of a drow and any other creature does not produce children.

Drow cannot have children with other drow. For that matter, pure-blooded Drow only exist in a single generation, it seems (and their origin is a mystery). "Don't worry, guys. We just have to outlast them."

On top of that, somehow HUMANS, an entirely separate race, are more genetically compatible with drow than ANY OTHER ELF.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on November 26, 2013, 10:02:17 PM
The D&D world is a silly place.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on November 26, 2013, 11:39:22 PM
Also the Dragoloth (a type of half-fiend drow) doesn't exist. Nor do any other hlaf-drow half-fiends, half-dragons, or half-celestials.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 27, 2013, 01:30:48 AM
how strange  :twitch
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on November 27, 2013, 04:51:41 AM
Also the Dragoloth (a type of half-fiend drow) doesn't exist. Nor do any other hlaf-drow half-fiends, half-dragons, or half-celestials.
Specific trumps general?  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on November 27, 2013, 07:02:33 AM
Also the Dragoloth (a type of half-fiend drow) doesn't exist. Nor do any other hlaf-drow half-fiends, half-dragons, or half-celestials.
Specific trumps general?  :smirk

Maybe the demon has to polymorph into a human first?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 27, 2013, 10:50:16 AM
Also the Dragoloth (a type of half-fiend drow) doesn't exist. Nor do any other hlaf-drow half-fiends, half-dragons, or half-celestials.
Specific trumps general?  :smirk

Maybe the demon has to polymorph into a human first?
Not according to Salvatore...  :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 28, 2013, 11:56:01 AM
Sometime in the last week or two someone made a post referencing a Class that picks up certain Magic Item creation Feats a level early, anyone recall it? I'd love to know the name of the Class.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on November 28, 2013, 04:18:36 PM
How many Necropolitans do you know? Do they know about the Lifebond feat, from Libris Mortis? If not, they should. It gives +4 Turn Resistance and +2 untyped bonus to all saves as long as a certain someone is alive and within 60ft. Your familiar counts, as do the other party members.

It also can be taken multiple times, and the effects stack (not just the Turn Resistance but the save bonus too). I know a bunch of Dread Necromancer players who would be very happy with a couple instances of that feat, just for the extra security.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 28, 2013, 06:53:51 PM
Evil Creatures Undead get all the cool stuff.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on November 29, 2013, 07:51:57 PM
Digging around old articles on the Wizards site:

The lawnmower golem (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030418a)
Quote
As a full-round action, a razor golem can separate itself into its component razor disks. This attack form duplicates the effect of a blade barrier spell (set vertically) as if cast by a 15th-level cleric, except that the razor golem can move at half speed while in this state.[...]While in wall form, the golem can attack by merely moving through foe's spaces, which forces opponents to make Reflex saves (DC 18) or take damage from the blade barrier effect.
Note that a CL15 blade barrier is 300ft wide...


Also: bladesong (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010126a). Just bladesong.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 29, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
Digging around old articles on the Wizards site:

(snip)

Also: bladesong (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010126a). Just bladesong.

Holy...   :twitch  :) :D :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on November 29, 2013, 08:12:11 PM
Digging around old articles on the Wizards site:

(snip)

Also: bladesong (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010126a). Just bladesong.

Holy...   :twitch  :) :D :lol
My god...

Combine it with Winter Mask!  Anything else we can combine it with for fun?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on November 29, 2013, 09:52:41 PM
Also: bladesong (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010126a). Just bladesong.

Wasn't that updated to Bladeweave in SpC, which has a Will save to negate the dazing?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 30, 2013, 12:37:24 AM
Also: bladesong (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010126a). Just bladesong.

Wasn't that updated to Bladeweave in SpC, which has a Will save to negate the dazing?

Technically there is no official stance on that update, at least within the book, but Bladeweave does indeed look like an update since it's uncannily similar.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on November 30, 2013, 01:17:56 PM
Melee touch attack... thus no save. Granted, it's not caster only, but it's 1 rd per level (touch spells aren't persistable, are they?)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 30, 2013, 02:36:29 PM
General Grevious was a piker.
 :D ... but you already knew that.

How many Necropolitans do you know? Do they know about the Lifebond feat, from Libris Mortis? If not, they should. It gives +4 Turn Resistance and +2 untyped bonus to all saves as long as a certain someone is alive and within 60ft. Your familiar counts, as do the other party members.

It also can be taken multiple times, and the effects stack (not just the Turn Resistance but the save bonus too). I know a bunch of Dread Necromancer players who would be very happy with a couple instances of that feat, just for the extra security.

Wow is that I.P. gold or what ?!
Grateful Dead custom major Bloodline gets 10 of these.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on December 01, 2013, 02:33:46 AM
Everyone knows about the Anthropomorphic Bat, but what about the Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale?
For three monstrous humanoid HD and zero LA you get:

They make just amazing Psywars or Swordsages.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 01, 2013, 02:59:08 AM
An Ultraloth with Supernatural Transformation (Binding) can lock you away for eternity.  As a supernatural ability it can't be dispelled, and I'm pretty sure it can't be Disjoined, either.  The only way to get free is temporarily inside an AMF, or to have the Ultraloth dismiss the Su effect.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 01, 2013, 02:28:46 PM
Ouch !!

Everyone knows about the Anthropomorphic Bat, but what about the Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale?
For three monstrous humanoid HD and zero LA you get:
  • Size Large
  • Stats +8, +4, +4, +0, +4, +0
  • Blindsight 120'!
  • +9 NA
  • Swim 40' and hold breath
  • Tail attack(1d4)

They make just amazing Psywars or Swordsages.

... and Bard with a touch of in-breeding

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 01, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
The Eternal Vortex magical location (CM) lets you 1/day auto-Repeat an instantaneous evocation spell of 6th level or lower. There has to be some way to abuse this. Obviously Contingency won't work, and a lot of the better spells aren't instantaneous, but still.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 02, 2013, 07:31:53 AM
Double post because I'm tired and don't even care.

For those Incarnum users starving for essentia, the Planar Touchstone (Bastion of Souls) feat gives you 1 extra essentia. The higher-order ability is meh (bind an extra chakra, once, before you have to recharge), but the base ability is nice.

EDIT: Also, being a member of the Pentifex Order lets you buy incarnum magic items at 75% market price with a level check.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 02, 2013, 09:38:08 PM
Triple post, baby. You guys can't keep up, whoa.

Some stuff from Dragon 311:

The Spellstrike feat allows you to add the Concussive template to any spell which deals hit point damage. What does Concussive do, you ask? Well, any creature damaged by the spell must make a Balance check (DC 10 + CL) or be knocked prone by the spell. That's pretty cool. Especially when you remember that any creature with <5 ranks is Balance is flat-footed while balancing.

The Arcane Disciple cleric variant trades away Turn Undead and domains, and in exchange gets to convert 20 bard or sorc/wiz spells to divine cleric spells for her spell list. The Aspirant cleric variant, with a 3-level dip, can counterspell divine spells for free, 3+cha/day.

The Battle Howler prc progress bardic music and casting, and (for a 3-level dip) gives +1 to Inspire Courage, for you IC optimizers out there. It also grants Rage, whoopeee.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 03, 2013, 05:13:43 PM


... What does Concussive do, you ask? Well, any creature damaged by the spell must make a Balance check (DC 10 + CL) or be knocked prone by the spell. That's pretty cool. Especially when you remember that any creature with <5 ranks is Balance is flat-footed while balancing ...

Are more details needed?
Does the Balance check, draw an Opportunity Attack?

Feels like a 4e style extra roll condition attack.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on December 03, 2013, 05:14:14 PM
The Cavestalker PrC in Drow of the Underdark gets to treat spiked chains as 1-handed weapons at 4th level so long as you're a ranger with the TWF style.

At 9th level the PrC makes you undetectable through blindsense, blindsight, and tremorsense and also negates the effect of the Blind-Fight used against you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on December 10, 2013, 01:13:20 AM
The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on December 10, 2013, 02:17:45 AM
The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.

i think over at BG we had a thread about TO'ing cantrips. gonna have to look it up. the Magicians Spontaneous Cantrips ability could be 'handy'.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Meiliken on December 10, 2013, 06:31:59 AM
The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really qualify for Fun Finds since it's not affiliated with anything remotely close to D&D, WoTC, or even Paizo/Pathfinder.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 10, 2013, 09:49:43 AM
The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really qualify for Fun Finds since it's not affiliated with anything remotely close to D&D, WoTC, or even Paizo/Pathfinder.
It's for D&D 3.5, using homebrewed (but officially sanctioned (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Introduction)) material for a 2nd edition campaign setting converted to 3.5.

Quote
Although professional publication of the BIRTHRIGHT line has been discontinued, the BIRTHRIGHT setting has continued to engage the imaginations of adherents who enjoy role-playing in the rich tapestry of Cerilia. This is a resource for players and Dungeon Masters who play (or desire to play) BIRTHRIGHT under the third edition Dungeons & Dragons rule system.

This document has been prepared by a team of the official BIRTHRIGHT website at www.birthright.net. The scope of this manual is a comprehensive treatment of the core BIRTHRIGHT rulebook, The Book of Magecraft , The Book of Priestcraft and The Book of Regency. Setting information that is not rules dependent is not comprehensively covered herein. Material relating to regional areas, such as domain statistics, Organizations, prestige classes, NPC statistics, and other material tied to regional areas will be released in the d20 Atlas of Cerilia.

This document contains text and artwork copyrighted by TSR/WotC. Permission has been granted to www.birthright.net, as the official Birthright fan organization, to use all copyrighted material. This material may not be used for profit. This latest version of this manual will be made available, without charge, on www.birthright.net. For-profit sale of this document is in violation of TSR/WotC's copyright and is prohibited.
It actually looks pretty interesting. I remember Birthright was very popular with some of my friends back in 2nd edition.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 10, 2013, 05:20:13 PM
More shtuff for PLZ's list ... ( ringie dingie ) ... or at least another category.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on December 11, 2013, 11:16:54 AM
Who was drunk when they wrote Protege (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/protege--4664/)?

It's a 4th level Bard spell that lets you slap the ability to use Bardic Music onto people. Sure, it only lasts 1 minute/level, but still.

EDIT: Actually, no screw Protege, the spell I really want to know about is Dragonblood Spell-Pact. (http://dndtools.eu/spells/dragons-of-faerun--26/dragonblood-spell-pact--1117/)

That spell is also known as "hey, fixed list casters, how would you like to customize your spell list"?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 11, 2013, 01:57:08 PM
Who was drunk when they wrote Protege (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/protege--4664/)?

It's a 4th level Bard spell that lets you slap the ability to use Bardic Music onto people. Sure, it only lasts 1 minute/level, but still.

EDIT: Actually, no screw Protege, the spell I really want to know about is Dragonblood Spell-Pact. (http://dndtools.eu/spells/dragons-of-faerun--26/dragonblood-spell-pact--1117/)

That spell is also known as "hey, fixed list casters, how would you like to customize your spell list"?

I don't see what the big deal is with Protege.  Okay, the other person can use bardic music for 15 minutes.  Great, the NPC ally can go inspire some more people on the other end of the battlefield.  I must be missing what's so broken about it.

Dragonblood Spell-Pact is quite nice and dirty, however.
I love how their example yet again isn't legal.
Quote
...
These spells must be of the same level, though not of the same school.
...
They agree that Darsikh will give Arethnektilhimon hallucinatory terrain in return for shadow conjuration.
Hallucinatory terrain is Illusion (glamer) and Shadow Conjuration is Illusion (shadow).

In fact, I'm going to use this spell, though it won't be for a long time yet.  One of my PC's is a Beguiler who is quite annoyed that Beguilers don't get Tongues.  He has role-played contacting a dragon and has made a contract with her as the requirement for Dragon Disciple (it is a gestalt game; he'll take Dragon Disciple on his Barbarian side during Epic levels, so it won't screw up his casting or his BAB).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on December 11, 2013, 03:06:49 PM
That's perfectly legal; that sentence means that it doesn't matter what school the two spells are.

Yeah, they worded it in a confusing manner, but that "not" is negating the "must" of the preceding clause.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 11, 2013, 03:26:52 PM
That's perfectly legal; that sentence means that it doesn't matter what school the two spells are.

Yeah, they worded it in a confusing manner, but that "not" is negating the "must" of the preceding clause.
Ah, it should be read as "... though need not be of the same school."  Very poorly worded.  An equally valid interpretation could be that they must be the same level and of different schools.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on December 11, 2013, 03:30:20 PM
They don't seem to have considered that someone might want to learn a spell not on their class list.  For that matter, they didn't consider that a spell might be a different level on for different classes.  You could dominate a trapsmith and force him to trade you his 1st-level version of haste.  (Tangentially, why has no on ported this thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)?) 

Are there ways to gain temporary spells known?  If so, you can sacrifice those instead of your "real" spells known. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 11, 2013, 03:33:05 PM
That's perfectly legal; that sentence means that it doesn't matter what school the two spells are.

Yeah, they worded it in a confusing manner, but that "not" is negating the "must" of the preceding clause.
Ah, it should be read as "... though need not be of the same school."  Very poorly worded.  An equally valid interpretation could be that they must be the same level and of different schools.
Yeah, but I agree that it is just poorly worded and the intent is that there are no restrictions on school. It is a very nice find. I can't believe I haven't seen this before.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 11, 2013, 04:18:21 PM
A Kobold Favored Soul changes a Cure Serious Wounds with a Sorcerer for Lighting Bolt.  The kobold can now take Hexer, and the Sorcerer has a cure spell.

Lots of interesting possibilities.

Are there ways to gain temporary spells known?  If so, you can sacrifice those instead of your "real" spells known. 
I don't think a Spirit Shaman's retrieved spells actually count as spells known, do they?

Note that the Dragontouched feat from Dragon Magic gives you the Dragonblood subtype, so anyone with a Charisma of 11 can make use of this spell at the cost of a single feat.  Heck, a Chameleon could take the feat to use the spell, then ditch it after he's transferred whatever spells he wants.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 11, 2013, 04:29:37 PM
They don't seem to have considered that someone might want to learn a spell not on their class list.  For that matter, they didn't consider that a spell might be a different level on for different classes.  You could dominate a trapsmith and force him to trade you his 1st-level version of haste.  (Tangentially, why has no on ported this thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)?) 

Are there ways to gain temporary spells known?  If so, you can sacrifice those instead of your "real" spells known.
Ring of Theurgy? With a very strict wording, as long as you have an unused spell slot, the spells in a RoT count as spells known even if you can't trade them in.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on December 11, 2013, 06:02:35 PM
Dear lord.
I just realized.
Rainbow Warsnake + Dragonblood Spell-Pact.
You now have most of the Cleric spell-list up for trade.

Sorcerers using the Wu-Jen spell list can also go back and grab Wizard spells that they like.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 11, 2013, 06:11:50 PM
Ah, it should be read as "... though need not be of the same school."  Very poorly worded.  An equally valid interpretation could be that they must be the same level and of different schools.
Not me. This is atypical "base rule, exception format" found through English and especially D&D rules. For example, "no one is allowed in except law enforcement", or one of the other thousand variants spoken or posted on signs. Pretty common here in the states where D&D was written.

Dear lord.
I just realized.
Rainbow Warsnake + Dragonblood Spell-Pact.
You now have most of the Cleric spell-list up for trade.

Sorcerers using the Wu-Jen spell list can also go back and grab Wizard spells that they like.
Needs Prestige Bard, Silver Pyromancer, and a Child of Eberron True Dragon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on December 11, 2013, 06:21:07 PM
I think this is appropriate.
 :evillaugh
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Meiliken on December 11, 2013, 06:22:00 PM
I was following Fun Finds before, but unfortunately can't follow it anymore.  Homebrew is now being introduced which really doesn't qualify as a fun find in official material.  There is a separate thread specifically for homebrew that is outside of the primary DnD 3.5 and Pathfinder thread.  We really need to get back on focus here.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on December 11, 2013, 06:29:00 PM
Are you talking about mine?

Both are official material.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 11, 2013, 06:39:45 PM
Are you talking about mine?

Both are official material.
I think he's referring to things like the following:

The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.
I don't have any specific examples immediately at hand to proffer as evidence, but there have been other home-brew things brought here before, and I'll admit, I find such posts annoying.  Not enough I'd have been the first to bring it up, but since the topic is now at hand...

The Birthright links are borderline acceptable...  I realize they are officially sanctioned by WotC, but I still consider it completely homebrew.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 11, 2013, 08:12:25 PM
Some people frown on 2nd party, to be honest we have kept a level of Dragon separation before. Due to it's classification, access, and it's quality of material.

Having another Fun Finds thread to stuff Dragon Kok in would probably be helpful, if not pleasing to some people.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Meiliken on December 11, 2013, 08:19:43 PM
Are you talking about mine?

Both are official material.
I think he's referring to things like the following:

The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.
I don't have any specific examples immediately at hand to proffer as evidence, but there have been other home-brew things brought here before, and I'll admit, I find such posts annoying.  Not enough I'd have been the first to bring it up, but since the topic is now at hand...

The Birthright links are borderline acceptable...  I realize they are officially sanctioned by WotC, but I still consider it completely homebrew.

Aye, good to know I'm not the only one.  I'm completely against home brew simply because it means one can make up anything they feel like.  Incidentally, those birthright shenanigans even say they can't be used due to violating copyrights, so that proves they're not actually "sanctioned".  It amounts to no more than someone saying "yeah go ahead, but I'm not really behind you on it."  I follow the actual rule zero on page 6 of the DMG that states, "Good DM's know not to change or overturn a published rule without a good, logical justification so that the players don't rebel.  To carry out this responsibility, you need to know the rules."  But that's just me, I'm a stickler for sticking to the rules.  Hmm, does that make me Lawful?   ;) :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on December 11, 2013, 08:33:52 PM
alright, time to start using hash tags in posts. #funfind #sourcebook #version #homebrew # :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on December 11, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
Birthright is no less official than Kingdom of Kalamar, Dragonlance, Rokugan, or even Dragon Magazine. 

However, if we as a community feel that 2nd party material doesn't qualify for fun finds, then I'll stop posting it  :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: geniussavant on December 11, 2013, 11:11:44 PM
You forgot Dark Sun  :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 11, 2013, 11:59:55 PM
Birthright is no less official than Kingdom of Kalamar, Dragonlance, Rokugan, or even Dragon Magazine. 

However, if we as a community feel that 2nd party material doesn't qualify for fun finds, then I'll stop posting it  :p
I like it. I use lots of 2nd, 3rd, and homebrew material as a PC and DM. I know where to look for homebrew. This is one place I look for "printed" material.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ZhonLord on December 12, 2013, 10:16:24 AM
Ultimate Feats is a very fun 3rd party book for 3.0/3.5.  It contains a large variety feats, some weak and some VERY strong.  For example, a few of my favorites:

Deflect Attack (imagine this on a Ruby Knight Vindicator with Combat Reflexes)
(click to show/hide)

The Mountain Does Not Move (Combine with an Orb of Mental Renewal for all the damage avoidances you could ask for)
(click to show/hide)

Powerless Spell (this one's mostly for shenanigans, but it's still fun)
(click to show/hide)

Beast Tongues (Polymorph casters can go nuts with this one)
(click to show/hide)

Bloodburn
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on December 12, 2013, 12:43:16 PM
The Noble class in the Birthright Campaign Setting (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Noble) gets Leadership at level 3.

A 2nd level Magician (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Magician) can get Skill Mastery for 3 + Int modifier skills.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really qualify for Fun Finds since it's not affiliated with anything remotely close to D&D, WoTC, or even Paizo/Pathfinder.

if one will check my thread of official materials, one will find that wotc blessed specific sites with official status. these sites convert specific campaign settings from 2.x to 3.x that wotc at the time was not going to expend the man-hours to include in 3.x. due to wotc's statement of official status, any material produced by any of these sites is given official status equal to that of wotc published works. in fact, such material is co-owned by wotc and the sites in question. the campaign settings are as follows: birthright, planescape, mystara, ravenloft, dark sun, and dragonlance.

the ravenloft site ended tenure when the license was sold to SSS, and was not picked back up when SSS went down. current status of the license is unknown, but is assumed to be reabsorbed by wotc, as the official site did not return after SSS died.

dragonlance also is no longer considered official as wotc released 3.x dragonlance books followed by other books released under another arrangement which supersede the site.

mystara has stated that they have no intention of releasing official 3.x material, but merely retains a repository of 2.x-->3.x conversion suggestions and guides.

with the conversion of dark sun to 4th ed, activity has dwindled somewhat at the athas.org site, formerly the most active of the three remaining campaign setting sites, but there is still activity and they retain their official 3.x status.

planescape and birthright are still active, and still retain their official 3.x status.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 12, 2013, 06:07:56 PM
Can't ... resist ...  :p ... It's totally understandable that some people don't want any KoK in their Core.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on December 12, 2013, 07:32:37 PM
Looking at the Planar TouchstonePlH feat...

Attuning to The Were Glade gives you the shapechanger subtype permanently, letting anyone enter warshaper. Also you can become a werewolf 1/day for 9 hours (animal or hybrid form), though it's unclear whether you gain the extra HD, and you only get two uses before you need to recharge.

Or you could attune to the Catalogues of Enlightenment and get a cleric domain power. Or Oxyrhynchus to get a confusingly-worded flurry ability. The Breaching Grasp grants a form of time stop, Juiblex's Grasp provides freedom of movement, and The Shrine of Acererak lets you order around undead with no saving throw.

Planar Touchstone is also a prereq for Stalwart Planar Ally (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Stalwart_Planar_Ally), which combos well with using Catalogues of Enlightenment to access the Dragon Below domain (grants Augment Summoning as a bonus feat).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on December 13, 2013, 11:11:41 AM
Looking at the Planar TouchstonePlH feat...

Attuning to The Were Glade gives you the shapechanger subtype permanently, letting anyone enter warshaper....

woot! =D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on December 13, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
So this is an interesting little feat that I found in Eberron - City of Stormreach:

HARDENED CRIMINAL
You’ve done hard time on the unforgiving streets. You know how to knuckle down and get the caper done regardless of the obstacles, and your steely gaze can meet anyone’s eye without fl inching.

Prerequisite: Iron Will.

Benefit: You cannot be intimidated. (Attempts to use the Intimidate skill against you always fail.) In addition, you can take 10 on any checks with one skill chosen at the time you take this feat, even under conditions when taking 10 would normally be impossible.

Heh, apart from the obvious advantage of being immune to demoralize, I find the wording amusing because its the first time that I have seen Immunity to a SKILL in game.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on December 13, 2013, 01:42:20 PM
So this is an interesting little feat that I found in Eberron - City of Stormreach:

HARDENED CRIMINAL
You’ve done hard time on the unforgiving streets. You know how to knuckle down and get the caper done regardless of the obstacles, and your steely gaze can meet anyone’s eye without fl inching.

Prerequisite: Iron Will.

Benefit: You cannot be intimidated. (Attempts to use the Intimidate skill against you always fail.) In addition, you can take 10 on any checks with one skill chosen at the time you take this feat, even under conditions when taking 10 would normally be impossible.

Heh, apart from the obvious advantage of being immune to demoralize, I find the wording amusing because its the first time that I have seen Immunity to a SKILL in game.

Huh. So, with the standard Otyugh Hole we can finally give a Truenamer the means to take 10 on Truespeech without needing Exemplar levels.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 13, 2013, 01:56:09 PM
So Truenamers are all driven to be Hardened Criminals by how harsh their class' mechanics are. That makes sense.  :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on December 13, 2013, 01:56:49 PM
So... chaining time stops?

Rod of Maximize + Time Stop: Do whatever you want for 4 rounds, then...
Readied Action: When my time stop ends, cast Time Stop.

Works even better if you have many, many Pearl-of-Power-9th's.

If you're a Wizard/Psion, then use each of the other 4 rounds for an Augmented Temporal Acceleration. So many turns.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on December 13, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
Greaves of Aundair
Price (Item Level): 5,000 gp (9th)
Body Slot: Feet
Caster Level: 3rd
Aura: Faint; (DC 16) transmutation
Activation: — and immediate (command)
Weight: 1 lb.

The greaves of Aundair grant you an enhancement bonus to
your base speed of +10 feet. Three times per day, you can
immediately take a move action. After performing this
action, you are dazed until the end of your next turn.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, longstrider.
Cost to Create: 2,500 gp, 100 XP, 5 days.

This gem is from Eberron- the forge of war.
Just of the top of my head, Its a great option for a war weaver build =)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 13, 2013, 03:12:11 PM
So it's like Lesser Celerity, basically, plus persistent Longstrider.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 13, 2013, 04:11:27 PM
So this is an interesting little feat that I found in Eberron - City of Stormreach:

HARDENED CRIMINAL
You’ve done hard time on the unforgiving streets. You know how to knuckle down and get the caper done regardless of the obstacles, and your steely gaze can meet anyone’s eye without flinching.

Prerequisite: Iron Will.

Benefit: You cannot be intimidated. (Attempts to use the Intimidate skill against you always fail.) In addition, you can take 10 on any checks with one skill chosen at the time you take this feat, even under conditions when taking 10 would normally be impossible.

Heh, apart from the obvious advantage of being immune to demoralize, I find the wording amusing because its the first time that I have seen Immunity to a SKILL in game.
Hmmm.... would you guys read that as allowing a non-warlock to take 10 on Use Magic Device checks?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 13, 2013, 04:18:24 PM
I believe the correct answer to that is no.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on December 13, 2013, 04:24:52 PM
I believe the correct answer to that is no.


why do you say that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on December 13, 2013, 05:13:43 PM
I believe the correct answer to that is no.


why do you say that?

I believe Soro is using the basis that it's impossible to Take 10 on UMD except for the very specific cases of artificers and warlocks.  The rogue's Skill Mastery ability, for example, doesn't allow Take 10 on UMD nor does any general "you may Take 10 on skill(s), even under adverse conditions" ability allow for it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 13, 2013, 06:35:12 PM
Looking at the Planar TouchstonePlH feat...

Attuning to The Were Glade gives you the shapechanger subtype permanently, letting anyone enter warshaper. Also you can become a werewolf 1/day for 9 hours (animal or hybrid form), though it's unclear whether you gain the extra HD, and you only get two uses before you need to recharge.

could you bite yourself and actually become a werewolf?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on December 13, 2013, 06:45:27 PM
It says you can't inflict lycanthropy (though it doesn't say whether you're natural or afflicted).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on December 14, 2013, 04:58:52 AM
The baator domain (Fiendish Codex II, p26) gives "the ability to see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even that created by a deeper darkness spell" as its granted power.  That would be pretty handy for a game set in the underdark (or otherwise emphasizing lightless environments). 

The ancestral speaker cleric variant (Dragon 311, p47) gets to pick any two skills as extra class skills.  There's got to be some prestige class that's easier to get into with that. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on December 14, 2013, 03:54:13 PM
I believe the correct answer to that is no.


why do you say that?

I believe Soro is using the basis that it's impossible to Take 10 on UMD except for the very specific cases of artificers and warlocks.  The rogue's Skill Mastery ability, for example, doesn't allow Take 10 on UMD nor does any general "you may Take 10 on skill(s), even under adverse conditions" ability allow for it.
I'm not sure this is the case, though.  No Skill Mastery where you choose the affected skills rules out UMD and UPD as options.  I think this would be a case of specific trumping general, since Skill Mastery says "you may always take 10 when using the selected skill"  That would override the general "you can't take 10 on UMD"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on December 15, 2013, 09:39:49 PM
Ah, it should be read as "... though need not be of the same school."  Very poorly worded.  An equally valid interpretation could be that they must be the same level and of different schools.
Not me. This is atypical "base rule, exception format" found through English and especially D&D rules. For example, "no one is allowed in except law enforcement", or one of the other thousand variants spoken or posted on signs. Pretty common here in the states where D&D was written.

Dear lord.
I just realized.
Rainbow Warsnake + Dragonblood Spell-Pact.
You now have most of the Cleric spell-list up for trade.

Sorcerers using the Wu-Jen spell list can also go back and grab Wizard spells that they like.
Needs Prestige Bard, Silver Pyromancer, and a Child of Eberron True Dragon.

Doesn't Silver Pyromancer have language specifically stating you can't do that? I recall the example was even a warmage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 15, 2013, 10:01:53 PM
Quote from: ksbsnowowl
Ah, it should be read as "... though need not be of the same school."  Very poorly worded.  An equally valid interpretation could be that they must be the same level and of different schools.
Not me. This is atypical "base rule, exception format" found through English and especially D&D rules. For example, "no one is allowed in except law enforcement", or one of the other thousand variants spoken or posted on signs. Pretty common here in the states where D&D was written.

Dear lord.
I just realized.
Rainbow Warsnake + Dragonblood Spell-Pact.
You now have most of the Cleric spell-list up for trade.

Sorcerers using the Wu-Jen spell list can also go back and grab Wizard spells that they like.
Needs Prestige Bard, Silver Pyromancer, and a Child of Eberron True Dragon.

Doesn't Silver Pyromancer have language specifically stating you can't do that? I recall the example was even a warmage.
Yep, it does.

Quote
In addition, starting at 1st level, you can treat spells from the paladin spell list as though they were arcane spells on the spell list for the arcane spellcasting class in which you could cast 3rd-level spells before becoming a silver pyromancer. You can add these spells to your spellbook or your list of spells known normally, just as though they were arcane spells. You cannot add these spells to the warmage spell list, or to the list of another similar class that can freely access all spells on its class spell list.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 16, 2013, 07:26:50 AM
Not quite what I was meaning.

Take my favorite Runestaff creator, a Child of Eberron Steel Dragon Wu Jen Sorcerer / Prestige Bard / Silver Pyromancer, only instead of making you the coolest 5 Spell stick ever he's all like "lets trade pokemon". And he isn't meaning little world destroying monsters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 16, 2013, 11:01:38 AM
Yeah, I suppose all Cleric spells are already up for grabs, via Red Dragons and the like.  Child of Eberron or whichever one it is that allows Druid spells opens all those up, too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 16, 2013, 06:03:04 PM
Netherese Battle Curse (and Magic Mantle while we're at it)
http://dndtools.eu/feats/lost-empires-of-faerun--30/netherese-battle-curse--2053/
... superior +1/2 CL "augmentation" , prep a bunch ahead of time.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on December 17, 2013, 02:38:07 AM
Nightskulk Skinwalkers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/skinwalkers-10-rp#TOC-Wererat-Kin-Nightskulk-) can get Distraction. Nothing like adding a save vs. Nauseate to all your attacks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on December 17, 2013, 03:35:16 PM
City of Stormreach p78 has The Three Faces of War, a "variant sect" of the Sovereign Host. You pick your domains from Dol Arrah, Dol Dorn and The Mockery, and may choose longsword, halberd or kama as your favored weapon. Could be useful for a Sovereign Speaker.

Nightskulk Skinwalkers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/skinwalkers-10-rp#TOC-Wererat-Kin-Nightskulk-) can get Distraction. Nothing like adding a save vs. Nauseate to all your attacks.
Hmmm... Bat-kin get a feat that lets them turn into bats; could be good on a 3.P warlock. Shark-kin with magus levels can gain a version of scent that applies only to spellcasters and SLA users, and is very hard to block. Tiger-kin have a trait that grants +3 initiative if they act in the surprise round. Wolf-kin have Wolf Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/wolf-style-combat-style), which looks to be the PF equivalent of Improved Trip/Stand Still (and combos well with Gorgon's Fist).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on December 17, 2013, 04:52:22 PM
The 3.5 update booklet for the MMII gives Cloaked Ape's an LA of +2...despite them only having an Int of 3  :huh.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on December 17, 2013, 05:25:43 PM
The 3.5 update booklet for the MMII gives Cloaked Ape's an LA of +2...despite them only having an Int of 3  :huh.

Int 3 is the bare minimum IIRC. That's a -8 racial penalty, and even if you completely dump the score you still end up with a 3.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on December 18, 2013, 03:14:09 PM
For the frontliners out there: a Ring of the Righteous (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) gives 25 temp HP and a +4 Sacred bonus to Strength for 5 minutes. Dirt-cheap at 5,400gp, so buying 2 or 3 of them (or better yet, getting the party's Artificer to make them for you) is a decent idea.

For the sneaks: a Ghost Hood (same book) gives you Invisibility and See Invisibility for 30 minutes 1/day, at the bargain price of 2,140gp.

For the Smiteadins: a Prefect's Vestments (again, EtCR) gives you an extra Smite/day. It also gives an additional Turn Undead use, but the wording is such that it can't be used for DMM.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 18, 2013, 05:31:52 PM
 >:( ... who are you calling a Cloaked Ape ?!


(hush kitty avatar hush)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Hangwind on December 18, 2013, 08:20:13 PM
Mentor feat in DMGII. Gain a free cohort for going up five levels :cool

For cheese? Get yourself killed at level 7, come back at level 6. Go up a level, taking your apprentice along with you. Get killed. Get raised. Go up a level. Rinse and repeat for infinite level 5 cohorts.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 19, 2013, 12:18:22 PM
its a different score, doesn't use leadership score
.
.
.
Rokugan Way of the Thief pg31
feat- grants a cohort
feat- grants a cohort and followers
pg46
feat- cha mod/day Intimidate as a free action to shake foe foe rnds=your level
pg71
feat- when making a Cha check to influence a creature, you can alter the result by 1 step either way

Rokugan Way of the Ninja pg22
feat- while full attack sneak attacking, double your crit threat. Stats w others
feat- delay sneak attack by 3d6 rnds
pg23
feat- replace sneak attack damage for that DC vs. stun 1d4 rnds
pg24
feat- while not helpless, you have total concealment vs. ranged attacks

Way of the Daimyo pg19
feat- gain a craftsman cohort
feat- Cha mod = pseudo-cohorts
.
.
.
Planescape Chapter 3 (Factions) pg50
Corpse Animator PrC at 3rd level...
Imbue Undead (Su): A corpse animator can imbue any undead that she animates with magical properties. In other words, she may treat a corpse as a magical item, casting the appropriate animation spell after finishing the enchantment. Typically granting the undead bonuses is done just as listed for magic items, as if the corpse was a wondrous item. Its natural weapons can be treated as masterwork weapons for purposes of enchantment, and its hide can be treated as masterwork armor for purposes of enchantment. Furthermore, it can be granted magical spells and abilities just as wondrous items can be. Any enchantment she places on a corpse has its cost reduced by 5% x her class level.

 :twitch :twitch :twitch
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on December 20, 2013, 03:30:44 PM
My...god.  You could already get some seriously dangerous minions if you knew what you were doing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 20, 2013, 05:05:48 PM
there's Bone Craft (below) that combines corpses into a super corpse... thats just like adding cheap item $ to make a much bigger and better item

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 21, 2013, 10:07:34 AM
Didn't we just have a skirmish about posting 3rd party materials a page or two ago?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 21, 2013, 01:31:05 PM
They're 2nd party. All three have the following...
"LEGEND OF THE FIVE RINGS is produced by AEG under license from Wizards of the Coast, Inc. a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc and 2002 Wizards of the Coast , Inc. All rights reserved."

plus, I don't see anything in the title of this that only allows 1st party material. I've even seen true 3rd party material.

if you don't like that I post 2nd party material, don't respond to it. So either deal with it, or next Fun Finds label the name "Fun Finds 5.0 1zt party only" or something stupid like that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 21, 2013, 02:11:25 PM
Yeah, that KoK fight and about the back door ... (bad aDMg think about the x-mas elves)


{major bloodline 3 at some point earlier} / Corpse Crafter 3 / Legacy Champ 2 / Uncanny Trickster 2 / CC +6 ... gets you to 20 levels of the class and it's a "calculation" so it fits the tight definition of bloodlines ... and that get's you a 100% discount.  Leaves 6 levels of build space and room for exp burn.  You Tier 1s have 9s going, we've got Skele-Mecha-Zoid.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 21, 2013, 02:31:25 PM
Eidoloncer grants spell advancement in all your other classes
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on December 21, 2013, 02:50:29 PM
Eidoloncer grants spell advancement in all your other classes

How do you figure?  It uses the singular in every reference to the class it progresses that I can see.

Also, you can't take more than 10 levels in the class pre-epic, or else you succumb to the Calling.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 21, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
Yeah, that KoK fight and about the back door ... (bad aDMg think about the x-mas elves)
Actually what I spoke of was this
I was following Fun Finds before, but unfortunately can't follow it anymore.  Homebrew is now being introduced which really doesn't qualify as a fun find in official material.  There is a separate thread specifically for homebrew that is outside of the primary DnD 3.5 and Pathfinder thread.  We really need to get back on focus here.
Which was then +1'ed by someone.

Followed by KSBSO
The Birthright links are borderline acceptable...  I realize they are officially sanctioned by WotC, but I still consider it completely homebrew.

I figured a bandwagon would start soon and tried nipping it in the bud with my own neutral suggestion
Some people frown on 2nd party, to be honest we have kept a level of Dragon separation before. Due to it's classification, access, and it's quality of material.

Having another Fun Finds thread to stuff Dragon Kok in would probably be helpful, if not pleasing to some people.
Obviously, it didn't work. But I did get to use the term "dragon kok" in a single sentence, through not quite grammatically correct.

Zook and JK however to bring up another interesting point to consider. If someone is making 2nd party postings they probably blindly follow it and will flame the ever living shit out of anyone who might express even a minuscule of none-agreement like a couple of backward kids in dire need of a spanking. A second thread *might* solve some of the problems.

Oh look, Zook likes that idea too. Well, that's easy enough...
Did so. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12131)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 21, 2013, 08:21:37 PM
Eidoloncer grants spell advancement in all your other classes

How do you figure?  It uses the singular in every reference to the class it progresses that I can see.

Also, you can't take more than 10 levels in the class pre-epic, or else you succumb to the Calling.

originally, it was because they said 'a spellcasting class', that doesn't note that multiple classes don't apply (since each are 'a spellcasting class'). Nor do they have the standard 'choose a class to advance' clause.

but what really changed my mind about my original view... the fact they mention in the example 'since her only class' sentence, this implies it only advances one class progression
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on December 22, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
a crysmal psicrystal explicitly has HD/skills/feats independent of being a psicrystal, which eliminates the confusion and argument about psicrystals and the "-" entry for advancement. (thanks to TheAbyssDragon for pointing it out to me.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on December 22, 2013, 03:14:55 PM
a crysmal psicrystal explicitly has HD/skills/feats independent of being a psicrystal, which eliminates the confusion and argument about psicrystals and the "-" entry for advancement. (thanks to TheAbyssDragon for pointing it out to me.)

Where's the option to take one of those as a Psicrystal? I can't find it.

Edit: A Runestaff of Power (MiC pg 181, 38,300gp) has a couple of mediocre spells (the Wall of Force being nifty, the rest being meh), but it also has two additional abilities: It's a +2/MWK quarterstaff that grants a constant +2 Luck bonus to AC/saves, and it can do this:

Quote
As a swift action, you can expend a 1st-level arcane spell or spell slot while holding a runestaff of power to activate a smite ability. Until the start of your next turn, all melee attacks made with the runestaff of power deal double damage (or triple damage on a critical hit).

It's a quarterstaff, thus eligible for Greater Mighty Wallop, and as the ability is a Swift action to use it works with Greater Arcane Channeling on a Duskblade. And it affects Power Attack, so Chargers with the ability to cast 1st level spells can make excellent use of it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on December 23, 2013, 12:25:48 AM
a crysmal psicrystal explicitly has HD/skills/feats independent of being a psicrystal, which eliminates the confusion and argument about psicrystals and the "-" entry for advancement. (thanks to TheAbyssDragon for pointing it out to me.)

Where's the option to take one of those as a Psicrystal? I can't find it.

you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20011229a) or in the Mind's Eye PDF.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on December 23, 2013, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: Savage Species
THUNDERCLAP [GENERAL]
You create a cone of deafening sound by clapping two limbs together.
Prerequisite: Str 30, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack.
Benefit: You may, as a full-round action, clap two of your limbs together and create a cone of sound that starts at your position and continues out for a number of feet equal to 5 × your Hit Dice. Creatures in the cone get a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Con modifier) to resist the effect. Those who fail their save are deafened for the duration of the encounter. Those who fail their save by 5 or more are also knocked prone.
Special: This effect automatically extinguishes unprotected flames (candles, torches, and the like).

Quote from: Deafened
She takes a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Listen checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

That's a pretty big cone, and the feat has some interesting prereqs. Deafened isn't much of a condition (unless the -4 Init penalty applies post-rolling), but imposing a 20% spell failure chance is nice, and the ability to mass-trip enemies without making an opposed Strength check is kinda cool.

Question: What's the earliest we can qualify for this feat, how high can we pump Con, and can we do both in the same build? I'm thinking it involves Mineral Warrior, Half-Minotaur, Lolth-Touched, Mongrelfolk, and Dragonborn.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 23, 2013, 03:11:33 PM
a crysmal psicrystal explicitly has HD/skills/feats independent of being a psicrystal, which eliminates the confusion and argument about psicrystals and the "-" entry for advancement. (thanks to TheAbyssDragon for pointing it out to me.)

Where's the option to take one of those as a Psicrystal? I can't find it.

you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20011229a) or in the Mind's Eye PDF.

hmm , I don't wanna be a killjoy so close to pSanta-portation Time.

I read it as a Crystal from a Crysmal, not the Crysmal itself, is made into a Psicrystal.  Nothing about being a real monster.  I wasn't around in '02 so probably missed something discussed then.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 23, 2013, 05:21:11 PM
Quote from: Savage Species
THUNDERCLAP [GENERAL]
You create a cone of deafening sound by clapping two limbs together.
Prerequisite: Str 30, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack.
Benefit: You may, as a full-round action, clap two of your limbs together and create a cone of sound that starts at your position and continues out for a number of feet equal to 5 × your Hit Dice. Creatures in the cone get a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Con modifier) to resist the effect. Those who fail their save are deafened for the duration of the encounter. Those who fail their save by 5 or more are also knocked prone.
Special: This effect automatically extinguishes unprotected flames (candles, torches, and the like).

Quote from: Deafened
She takes a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Listen checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

That's a pretty big cone, and the feat has some interesting prereqs. Deafened isn't much of a condition (unless the -4 Init penalty applies post-rolling), but imposing a 20% spell failure chance is nice, and the ability to mass-trip enemies without making an opposed Strength check is kinda cool.

Question: What's the earliest we can qualify for this feat, how high can we pump Con, and can we do both in the same build? I'm thinking it involves Mineral Warrior, Half-Minotaur, Lolth-Touched, Mongrelfolk, and Dragonborn.

were-paragon sewerm/dwarf = +22Str, +20Con
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on December 23, 2013, 06:39:26 PM
ECL 2 with a Half-Minotaur Water Orc Martial Monk 1. However, LA doesn't work well with the range keying off HD.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on December 23, 2013, 06:41:32 PM
Maho-Tsukai (OA)

Quote
Spell Conversion: A maho-tsukai can "trade in" levels in another spellcasting class for additional levels of maho-tsukai spellcasting ability. Each level of prior spellcasting ability counts as one additional level as a maho-tsukai for purposes of determining spells known and spells per day only. Spells previously learned as a shugenja or sorcerer count against the character's total spells known, but the maho-tsukai casts them now as arcane maho spells, spilling blood during the casting as a blood component. Maho-tsukai do not learn more cantrips or gain more 0-level spells per day as they advance. When a maho-tsukai advances a level, she can learn her new spells from either her old spell list or the maho-tsukai spell list, but casts all her spells as maho spells regardless.

Trade in levels of partial casting classes like duskblade, ranger, sohei, or spellthief for full arcane spellcasting. Too bad you become tainted. Dip away for special list access.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 23, 2013, 08:01:34 PM
Maho-Tsukai is one of those uber brokenz PrCs. For one thing, you can cast Apocalypse from the Sky since you can pay in blood for any Material Component no matter it's cost or worthlessness. You can Persist Spells by taking Con Damage (wand of lesser restoration anyone?). And if that's not enough, the Save DCs are based on your Taint which is a point per point system, it's to say 34 Wisdom is DC 41 Cantrips instead of the normal equivalent of DC 22.

Oh and yeah. It's fundamentally Wisdom based Arcane Casting since it's based on Taint, which is only limited by your Wisdom score.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 23, 2013, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Savage Species
THUNDERCLAP [GENERAL]
You create a cone of deafening sound by clapping two limbs together.
Prerequisite: Str 30, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack.
Benefit: You may, as a full-round action, clap two of your limbs together and create a cone of sound that starts at your position and continues out for a number of feet equal to 5 × your Hit Dice. Creatures in the cone get a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Con modifier) to resist the effect. Those who fail their save are deafened for the duration of the encounter. Those who fail their save by 5 or more are also knocked prone.
Special: This effect automatically extinguishes unprotected flames (candles, torches, and the like).

Quote from: Deafened
She takes a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Listen checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

That's a pretty big cone, and the feat has some interesting prereqs. Deafened isn't much of a condition (unless the -4 Init penalty applies post-rolling), but imposing a 20% spell failure chance is nice, and the ability to mass-trip enemies without making an opposed Strength check is kinda cool.

Question: What's the earliest we can qualify for this feat, how high can we pump Con, and can we do both in the same build? I'm thinking it involves Mineral Warrior, Half-Minotaur, Lolth-Touched, Mongrelfolk, and Dragonborn.
I might throw this on a War Troll...

Fort DC 25, 60-foot cone.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 24, 2013, 02:42:10 AM
Using the proper methods of size/type change... You can have a symbiotic Dvati where one twin is the guest and the other the host!

this avoids the need of a second npc/pc to get in the way of things.

basically, you can have an actual parasitic twin :P

can this be done w a plain enlarge + reduce person combo? What happens when the spells end? Or permanency required?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 24, 2013, 07:46:49 AM
basically, you can have an actual parasitic twin :P
Open your mind! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At5kaGJGcyU)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 25, 2013, 02:45:16 AM
At least according to the SRD, octopi and squids can ink cloud and jet when out of water.

how long does ink cloud last outside water?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 25, 2013, 03:01:28 AM
At least according to the SRD, octopi and squids can ink cloud and jet when out of water.

how long does ink cloud last outside water?
I'll bet the Sea Drake can do so as well.  Yeah, the Sea Drake gets an ink cloud ability...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on January 01, 2014, 09:00:08 PM
Anyone familiar enough with 3.0 psionics and power chains to convert the quanak lizardfolk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20021227b) to 3.5? The LA +0 and Poison Use is already notable enough.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 01, 2014, 09:01:13 PM
Complete Adventurer added a few exotic weapons that improve upon regular weapons, and noted that they are treated as the regular weapons for certain feats (though I'd personally just say they're treated as the regular weapon for all effects).  Of note though is it also has a list for some Complete Warrior exotic weapons that are also improvements over regular weapons and says they should be treated just like their non-exotic counterparts when it comes to some feats.  Said weapons and what they should be treated as are:

Blowgun, greater > Blowgun
Bolas, barbed > Bolas (bolas themselves are exotic)
Greatbow > Longbow
Greatspear > Longspear
Pick, dire > Pick, heavy
Poleaxe, heavy > Halberd
Warmace > Mace, heavy
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on January 02, 2014, 01:33:29 AM
Anyone familiar enough with 3.0 psionics and power chains to convert the quanak lizardfolk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20021227b) to 3.5? The LA +0 and Poison Use is already notable enough.

Combat Precognition was a 1 hour/level +1 insight to AC, so you can replace it with Defensive Precognition, which is the nearest equivalent. Body Adjustment and Metaphysical Weapon in 3.5 are basically what their equivalent power chains in 3.0 did (3.0's Body Adjustment also let you boost one save vs. poison and disease, or cure some ability damage like Body Purification, rather than just healing). The various psionic attack and defense modes were transformed into standard powers in 3.5, rather than the crazy tables of stuff that they were in 3.0 and AD&D. The Inertial Armor feat became a power in 3.5, but it's a feat the creature selected rather than a racial thing, and it doesn't even qualify for it due to not having any PP. So I'd just give the 5 powers (Defensive Precognition, Body Adjustment, Metaphysical Weapon, Mind Thrust, and Thought Shield) each as PLAs 3/day (and at ML = level or level/2, rather than a fixed ML 12) and 1 or 2 bonus PP to be psionically focused. Maybe only 1/day for Mind Thrust and Thought shield if you want. You could also add Inertial Armor 1/day if you wanted as well, but it's not necessary. The rest of the race (ie: the non-psionic part) translates directly to 3.5.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on January 02, 2014, 12:20:28 PM
Also note: Its LA is listed as 2.  Though the rest of that paragraph doesn't seem to notice it has 2 racial HD not 1 Warrior HD.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on January 02, 2014, 12:30:05 PM
No, it's ECL +2, which, since it includes 2 RHD, is equivalent to LA +0. That's how it was written in 3.0. Races didn't differentiate between RHD and LA, they just gave it to you as one lump sum. I remember seeing some races somewhere that even had ECL modifiers less than their total RHD, which would mean a negative LA in 3.5 terms.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Meiliken on January 02, 2014, 12:50:05 PM
No, it's ECL +2, which, since it includes 2 RHD, is equivalent to LA +0. That's how it was written in 3.0. Races didn't differentiate between RHD and LA, they just gave it to you as one lump sum. I remember seeing some races somewhere that even had ECL modifiers less than their total RHD, which would mean a negative LA in 3.5 terms.

Personally I always thought the differences between LA and RHD never did make sense.  Like one that takes half dragon with LA +3 but no RHD.  Yeah they have all these nifty abilities, but oh no, you sneeze in their direction and they're dead.  Starting ECL of 4th, but as a lvl 1 character, means you've pathetic HD.  I've always ruled it as being whatever the LA is, that's how many RHD they get, otherwise, the entire LA/RHD system is broken in a bad way, not a good way.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on January 02, 2014, 12:57:31 PM
No, it's ECL +2, which, since it includes 2 RHD, is equivalent to LA +0. That's how it was written in 3.0. Races didn't differentiate between RHD and LA, they just gave it to you as one lump sum. I remember seeing some races somewhere that even had ECL modifiers less than their total RHD, which would mean a negative LA in 3.5 terms.

Personally I always thought the differences between LA and RHD never did make sense.  Like one that takes half dragon with LA +3 but no RHD.  Yeah they have all these nifty abilities, but oh no, you sneeze in their direction and they're dead.  Starting ECL of 4th, but as a lvl 1 character, means you've pathetic HD.  I've always ruled it as being whatever the LA is, that's how many RHD they get, otherwise, the entire LA/RHD system is broken in a bad way, not a good way.

I like this idea. How does it work normally? (My group has a running ban on anything with RHD since nobody understood them)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on January 02, 2014, 03:04:18 PM
No, it's ECL +2, which, since it includes 2 RHD, is equivalent to LA +0. That's how it was written in 3.0. Races didn't differentiate between RHD and LA, they just gave it to you as one lump sum. I remember seeing some races somewhere that even had ECL modifiers less than their total RHD, which would mean a negative LA in 3.5 terms.

Personally I always thought the differences between LA and RHD never did make sense.  Like one that takes half dragon with LA +3 but no RHD.  Yeah they have all these nifty abilities, but oh no, you sneeze in their direction and they're dead.  Starting ECL of 4th, but as a lvl 1 character, means you've pathetic HD.  I've always ruled it as being whatever the LA is, that's how many RHD they get, otherwise, the entire LA/RHD system is broken in a bad way, not a good way.

I like this idea. How does it work normally? (My group has a running ban on anything with RHD since nobody understood them)

Normally, both RHD and LA count towards your character level when determining your ECL (and thus how much xp you earn and how much it takes to level up). However, RHD are like actual character levels in a class with no class features (you get HP, skills, BAB, and saves according to your creature type, and they count towards feats, skill rank maximums, not dying to Cloudkill, etc.). If you only have 1 RHD at character creation, you can even trade it in for a full-fledged class level. However, if you have more than that (2+ RHD), you're stuck with them, and they come first before any class levels so your low level feats can't use your class features for prerequisites (since you won't have them yet), and it's your RHD's skill points that are multiplied by 4 at 1st level, not your first class's skill points. Some things with enough RHD can get you high enough level to meet the prerequisites for some PrCs, letting you skip taking base classes entirely.

LA is just a blank, where you get nothing (no HP, skills, BAB, saves, feats, max ranks, etc.). On the other hand, you can buy off your LA if you use the rules in Unearthed Arcana, which involves spending extra experience points at certain levels (the exact nature of which I kinda understand, sort of, but not well enough to explain).

Neither LA nor RHD count against you for multiclass penalties if you use them. You could have, say, 10 RHD, +5 LA, and 1 level each of Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard (not that you should ever do this), and you'll still get your full experience, albeit only the experience that a level 18 character would earn.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 02, 2014, 03:53:46 PM
Wow that wasn't borkt in 3e, now was it?
 ;)

The 3.5e updated "No Adjective" Lizardfolk got that
LA+2 added, and certainly the Quarnaks by itself
deserve a bump, even if they officially don't get it.

Garryl's conversion is +1.
That ML=12 is ridiculous, and a reasonable houserule
is to reduce it to something more ~civilized.
But I really like that ML=12 ... really really like it.
+2 to the 4 base stats is juicy.

Mind Thrust + Thought Shield, are still fodder for
that 3rd level feat that turns 5 modes into feats.
Me , I'd rather have the feats than the conversion.


Any of the very old pre-'04 psi board 3.0e guys around to comment ??
 :bigeyes
And shouldn't this find be an addenda to the Duergar thread (wink).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 02, 2014, 05:09:21 PM
Any of the very old pre-'04 psi board 3.0e guys around to comment ??
I followed the Psi stuff back then.  Played a ~13th level telepath in a game for a few months.  I got kicked out of the game for three things:
1) Making comments like "that's not right" when the DM told a player that a Ring of Protection we found did not stack with armor.
2) The whole party was captured, I Mind Switched into one of the Mind Flayer captors, and proceeded to kamikaze the other Mind Flayers by using Body Fuel to drop my "host's" Strength score to 0 while inflicting damage on the others.  The DM said I had killed the host Mind Flayer by dropping its Str to 0.  I retorted that only dropping Con to 0 killed something, normally.
3) Mind Switching into a dwarf that was attacking us, and basically assuming his body (I think the party captured or killed him in mine).

I also routinely walked around as a Stone Giant via Metamorphosis, and used Schism all the time.

This is when I developed my severe disdain for DM's that don't even know the common basics of the rules; I've only had one other terrible DM experience since then (though I've BEEN the DM for the majority of those years.)

Sadly, I've not paid much attention to Psionics since then, and don't really have a comment about the psionic Lizardfolk.

[/off_topic]
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on January 02, 2014, 06:10:02 PM
No, it's ECL +2, which, since it includes 2 RHD, is equivalent to LA +0. That's how it was written in 3.0. Races didn't differentiate between RHD and LA, they just gave it to you as one lump sum. I remember seeing some races somewhere that even had ECL modifiers less than their total RHD, which would mean a negative LA in 3.5 terms.

Personally I always thought the differences between LA and RHD never did make sense.  Like one that takes half dragon with LA +3 but no RHD.  Yeah they have all these nifty abilities, but oh no, you sneeze in their direction and they're dead.  Starting ECL of 4th, but as a lvl 1 character, means you've pathetic HD.  I've always ruled it as being whatever the LA is, that's how many RHD they get, otherwise, the entire LA/RHD system is broken in a bad way, not a good way.

I like this idea. How does it work normally? (My group has a running ban on anything with RHD since nobody understood them)

Normally, both RHD and LA count towards your character level when determining your ECL (and thus how much xp you earn and how much it takes to level up). However, RHD are like actual character levels in a class with no class features (you get HP, skills, BAB, and saves according to your creature type, and they count towards feats, skill rank maximums, not dying to Cloudkill, etc.). If you only have 1 RHD at character creation, you can even trade it in for a full-fledged class level. However, if you have more than that (2+ RHD), you're stuck with them, and they come first before any class levels so your low level feats can't use your class features for prerequisites (since you won't have them yet), and it's your RHD's skill points that are multiplied by 4 at 1st level, not your first class's skill points. Some things with enough RHD can get you high enough level to meet the prerequisites for some PrCs, letting you skip taking base classes entirely.

LA is just a blank, where you get nothing (no HP, skills, BAB, saves, feats, max ranks, etc.). On the other hand, you can buy off your LA if you use the rules in Unearthed Arcana, which involves spending extra experience points at certain levels (the exact nature of which I kinda understand, sort of, but not well enough to explain).

Neither LA nor RHD count against you for multiclass penalties if you use them. You could have, say, 10 RHD, +5 LA, and 1 level each of Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard (not that you should ever do this), and you'll still get your full experience, albeit only the experience that a level 18 character would earn.

Ok, so we WERE doing it right, it just sucked that hard.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 03, 2014, 03:04:28 PM
The epic leadership feat has a bunch of special cohorts.
They get an ECL assigned, where their normal MM entry
does not have one.  'Course these are epic so they don't
matter all that much.  But they don't have the "Cohort Only"
tag that the Petal has.  I think an ECL is an ECL, yes?

Look on the right-hand side  ---> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicReflexes
Dragons, Storm+Cloud Giants, Ice Devil, Glabrezu, etc
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 03, 2014, 04:02:57 PM
That gives the roc an LA, the second 1st party source to play an animal
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on January 03, 2014, 04:27:08 PM
A creepy "fluff" fun find that i posted on Gitp:

Quote from: 123456789blaaa
Daelkyr half-bloods are a race that come from unborn babies corrupted in the womb by Daelkyr (lovecraftian entities trapped beneath the world of Eberron).

Quotes from Magic of Eberron explain how they're created:

Quote from: MoE, page 39
Daelkyr half-bloods are born of pregnant mothers who were either influenced by close proximity to a daelkyr confinement cylinder or infected by a breed leech (see page 154).

Quote from: MoE, page 155
Breed leeches are an extraordinary leap in daelkyr corruption magic. Instilled in each leech is a terrible infection that corrupts a regular pregnancy if allowed to run its course. The resulting child is born a daelkyr halfblood (see page 37).

Now as I said before, Half-Bloods are a race (not a template) that look almost exactly like humans except for the aberrant symbiotes that are attached to them.

What's creepy is that the above quotes do not specify the mother has to be humanoid. As long as it's pregnant and a mother, the baby can be corrupted. Attach a breed leech to a pregnant dog and a human-looking baby with a slimy thing attached to it will come out. A very unpleasant surprise for owners watching a dog birth  :puke

EDIT: For those not familiar with Eberron, let me specify that the Daelkyr Half-Blood is an LA 0 playable race (with no RHD). You can play a character whose parents are literally dogs.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 03, 2014, 08:22:37 PM
Desert Binding (http://dndtools.eu/spells/sandstorm--85/desert-binding--3151/) is a fun spell. Just take a look at Wind in the Waste.

If you just need to get someone out of your hair for a bit, turning them into a wind that can do nothing but just howl along for the next 15+ years seems like a good bet.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 03, 2014, 09:45:19 PM
Desert Binding (http://dndtools.eu/spells/sandstorm--85/desert-binding--3151/) is a fun spell. Just take a look at Wind in the Waste.

If you just need to get someone out of your hair for a bit, turning them into a wind that can do nothing but just howl along for the next 15+ years seems like a good bet.
Fifteen?  Blow a Limited Wish to aid that puppy with a Consumptive Field!  Binding's casting time is only one minute.  ;)

Binding is rather expensive, though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 03, 2014, 10:28:50 PM
"I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE HOWLING WIND I JUST TURNED YOU INTO, WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?"

 :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on January 03, 2014, 10:48:47 PM
cast it on yourself? to take an extended vacation?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 03, 2014, 11:58:43 PM
cast it on yourself? to take an extended vacation?
Not a bad way to escape death by assassins from all the BBEG's you've pissed off.  Just drop off the face of the planet for a few decades.

Assuming you don't go insane in the interim, of course.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 04, 2014, 12:19:48 AM
It doesn't seem to remove the creature's age. Wouldn't the target potentially die of old age?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on January 04, 2014, 11:40:30 AM
So, here's a fun one for warlocks. The Carnevus Demon from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits has an ability that lets it cast two spells per round as an (Ex) special attack (the type that polymorph grants). It also has maximize for free on all spells it casts. However, since it doesn't actually have any spells, only spell like abilities, and all the examples refer to those, it's fairly safe to infer that you get to use the ability on SLAs. So you could get off two maximized Eldritch Blasts per round all day long. Another great part about the Carnevus is that is is a medium sized outsider, and thus you could (arguably) get permanent duration PAO into it as a Neraphim.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 04, 2014, 03:14:21 PM
My 12 year old self, is revolted by my future eyes.
My dog birthed 7 puppies, and I helped deliver ~half of them.
You have ruined that memory for all time ; congrats.
 :D


creepy "fluff" ... Attach a breed leech to a pregnant dog and a human-looking baby with a slimy thing attached to it will come out. A very unpleasant surprise for owners watching a dog birth ...

Aww what a cutie ...  :love ... and her first words were: "Bark !!"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on January 05, 2014, 12:12:51 AM
Changelings can use Disguise Self to alter their physical appearance as a real physical effect. Thus they should be able to use Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species p 30) to gain a really sweet ability or two. If a real polymorph ability is required to qualify, then the Changeling could be a DfA and take the Humanoid Shape ability, but since Minor Change Shape is 'Similar' to polymorph, this should be unnecessary. One nifty ability would be the Medusa's Gaze, but that can hurt your allies. Why not be your own flanker, and then while you're at it completely ruin the action economy?

Enter the Protean Scourge (MMIII p 126, thanks to bhu for getting me to look again at the creature). It has a (Su) ability to Split 
(click to show/hide)

So, you can now have as many as 2^(number of HP you have) copies of yourself. Since the Protean Scourge can look like any humanoid, you always have this ability (if your DM is a real stickler, then just look like the picture for Protean Scourge). So for -2 HP, and -2 to Attacks, Saves, Skill and Ability Checks, you have 4 fully Operational Battle Stations copies of yourself. For -3 HP, you have 8, and so on. As a Factotum or Chameleon, you have a 1 character Party. Less tanking, but being more targets is great! Plus whenever you take damage, there are suddenly more of you.

Be a Warlock or Dragonfire Adept; You now get enough actions to take on most any threat. And you can always leave one copy of yourself behind as a 'Savegame.' Just pick him up at the end of the scary bits. If you survived them.

(Edit/PS: I would argue that the 'current HP total' clause would allow each to be healed separately, and you could have NI copies. Anyone got anything saying otherwise?)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: DavidWL on January 05, 2014, 01:31:07 AM
Changelings can use Disguise Self to alter their physical appearance as a real physical effect. Thus they should be able to use Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species p 30) to gain a really sweet ability or two.
...
Enter the Protean Scourge (MMIII p 126, thanks to bhu for getting me to look again at the creature). It has a (Su) ability to Split 

Very awesome find!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 05, 2014, 03:03:16 AM
Its a great choice for Symbiotic cheese.

be a shrunken head of a gnome on the scourge
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on January 05, 2014, 12:25:57 PM
Perform (weapon drill) checks get a bonus equal to 1/4 your BAB, +2 for certain feats like Weapon Focus and Two-Weapon Fighting. Normally this would be the best version of Perform in the game, but it can't be used for bardic music.

Now look at the Versatile Performer (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Versatile_Performer) feat. If you use dance, song, etc. to perform bardic music but you're already performing weapon drills at the same time, you use the latter modifier +2.

Use this with the Chord of Distraction feat, Virtuoso's Jarring Song, or a Lord of the Dance build (with a wand chamber for undersong).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 05, 2014, 12:28:56 PM
Changelings can use Disguise Self to alter their physical appearance as a real physical effect. Thus they should be able to use Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species p 30) to gain a really sweet ability or two. If a real polymorph ability is required to qualify, then the Changeling could be a DfA and take the Humanoid Shape ability, but since Minor Change Shape is 'Similar' to polymorph, this should be unnecessary. One nifty ability would be the Medusa's Gaze, but that can hurt your allies. Why not be your own flanker, and then while you're at it completely ruin the action economy?

Enter the Protean Scourge (MMIII p 126, thanks to bhu for getting me to look again at the creature). It has a (Su) ability to Split 
(click to show/hide)

So, you can now have as many as 2^(number of HP you have) copies of yourself. Since the Protean Scourge can look like any humanoid, you always have this ability (if your DM is a real stickler, then just look like the picture for Protean Scourge). So for -2 HP, and -2 to Attacks, Saves, Skill and Ability Checks, you have 4 fully Operational Battle Stations copies of yourself. For -3 HP, you have 8, and so on. As a Factotum or Chameleon, you have a 1 character Party. Less tanking, but being more targets is great! Plus whenever you take damage, there are suddenly more of you.

Be a Warlock or Dragonfire Adept; You now get enough actions to take on most any threat. And you can always leave one copy of yourself behind as a 'Savegame.' Just pick him up at the end of the scary bits. If you survived them.

(Edit/PS: I would argue that the 'current HP total' clause would allow each to be healed separately, and you could have NI copies. Anyone got anything saying otherwise?)
Throw this on a psion with a psicrystal, Vigor, and Share Pain to make each of those clones much, much harder to kill...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 05, 2014, 01:06:18 PM
You can add to or replace Shared Pain by using
Quote from: BoVD
Armor of the Dread Emperor
This suit of +1 full plate has four 5-foot chains connected to it at the waist. Each chain has a ring manacle sized to fit around a humanoid neck. If people are placed in these manacles by either the armor's wearer or his minions, the armor is ready to display its true power. Whenever the wearer takes damage, the captives held by the chains take half the damage themselves. If the chains hold more than one person, divide the half damage among all of them. Operating in this armor with chains attached to other people is difficult. The wearer takes an additional -5 armor check penalty unless the victims are somehow magically subdued or controlled, such as by stupor or dominate person. If the captives are children, the additional armor check penalty is only -2. If the captives are subdued or controlled children, there is no additional armor check penalty.
CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, shield other; Market Price:14,650 gp.
Take 100 damage? No, you take 50, your four minions take 12 each. Then four rounds of Share Pain kicks in and *you* only took 3. ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 05, 2014, 02:29:17 PM
Much more streamlined than the Changeling into Illithid Savant.
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=826.0
+1


Perform (weapon drill) checks get a bonus equal to 1/4 your BAB, +2 for certain feats like Weapon Focus and Two-Weapon Fighting. Normally this would be the best version of Perform in the game, but it can't be used for bardic music.

Now look at the Versatile Performer (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Versatile_Performer) feat. If you use dance, song, etc. to perform bardic music but you're already performing weapon drills at the same time, you use the latter modifier +2.

Use this with the Chord of Distraction feat, Virtuoso's Jarring Song, or a Lord of the Dance build (with a wand chamber for undersong).

HA !!
So the best Bard does things this guy does, eh?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on January 05, 2014, 02:46:15 PM
Regarding the damage, just make sure you only take nonlethal damage when prepping. Now there's no question about NI copies; nonlethal damage doesn't change your HP total.

Now it's in the realm of dirty tricks...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on January 05, 2014, 03:04:41 PM
Great, now a first level Changelings can Godzilla the action economy by taking one feat and punching themselves in the face till they overpopulate the planet with themself.   

I wonder if that's how the species originated?  One Changeling was born, then copied themself and one thing led to another, then next thing you know they were suing themselves for child support a few hundred times over.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on January 05, 2014, 03:37:30 PM
Protean Scourge trick is cool, and I hate to poke holes in such a cool trick, so I'll try and patch them too.
//Oh wow. Didn't expect to find that.//

I'm pretty sure you need to polymorph (or similar) into the protean scourge's natural form for Assume Supernatural ability to work. This is easy to solve, just take another assume supernatural ability to get their shapeshifting to look normal (or be okay with looking different).

Whether changeling minor change shape would count as polymorph like is pointless, because changelings aren't tall enough. Changelings are at most 5'9" on the random height table, and disguise self is limited to + 1 foot of height. Protean Scourges are 7 ft. tall. This is unfairly early access, and other magic should work, so it's not a big loss. So you'd need an abnormally tall changeling, and why go through the hassle when their are more reliable ways?

Sadly, Humanoid form invocation doesn't work either. Protean Scourge's are Monstrous humanoids. Because I'm not hugely interested in digging through hundred of other options, I'll jump to the most reliable one.

Polymorph. Pretty much the example spell for Assume supernatural Ability, can clearly get us into the form of a protean scourge, and otherwise does everything we want. Even better, it fits on a wand, so buy a single charge wand on our factotum or warlock and win via umd.

But jojolagger, it only lasts a minute per level, do you really expect us to generate enough clones in just a few minutes? Honestly, 13 minutes (lowest CL this works with) of clones should be easily enough. Assuming a split every 1/2 minute, that's 2^26 clones, 67 million. You now out populate the five nations of eberron combined. But we don't need to stop there. Because we don't change back. You see, while split, neither half can change shape. Polymorph turning off would change our shape.

Also, spellfire levels stored with spellfire wielder shouldn't be shared like spells, so we should grab it for even more stacking power.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 05, 2014, 03:48:25 PM
Much more streamlined than the Changeling into Illithid Savant.
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=826.0
Not really. Minor Change Shape states it's based of Disguise Self and further explains is is an actual minor physical alteration of a changeling’s facial features, skin color and texture, and size, within the limits described for the spell such as you can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type but you could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person. Not a single sentence in that paraphrased paragraph says or even suggests you grow additional limbs (tentacles), machine parts (effigy), or change your Type from Humanoid to something like "Robot Pirate Ninja". In turn; Racial Emulation only works on Humanoid forms. Aberrations, specially ones with prehensile face tentacles to make up for their lack of sexual organs, are excluded.

Now splitting your self and changing your form, that idea has merit.
Would it be considered masturbating through?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on January 05, 2014, 04:25:11 PM
I'll admit that I want this to work the way that I've posited it. I did say that you might have to look like a PS in order to take this ability, depending on your DM; YMMV.

As for the height of the Scourge; they're still medium creatures, so the fact that the changeling can only be 6'9" instead of 6'12" is largely immaterial. Those three extra inches only matter when hopping up for jump and... I think that's it. You would merely have the appearance of a shorter than normal Protean Scourge.

And jojo, are you arguing that the clause saying that "Neither half of the protean scourge can change shape as long as the creature remains split" prevents other forms of shapechanging instead of just the Scourge's own Change Shape ability? What about anyone else using PAO; does this ability make the Scourges immune to any shape altering transmutations while the effect persists? I read it in a more strict sense; it prevents the Change Shape ability coming from the Scourge's racial traits.

(click to show/hide)

I forgot about the Will save, and the already mentioned 'Shaken' status (without actually being named such) hurts a lot. What's unclear to me is when you take the penalties, and for how long. Now what I'm concerned about is whether the penalties would be cumulative; they're untyped, and it's nebulous when they're applied. The Attack/Save/Skill/Abil Check penalty is a lot like LA.

ASA is cool; Changelings can even get the Doppelganger's Detect Thoughts or Change Shape ability w/o having to go through the Cabinet Trickster class.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 06, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
A changeling with the Racial Emulation (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-eberron--10/racial-emulation--2348/) can emulate an incarnate dustform green slaad. Doing so allows it to slowly transform into an actual black slaad after 202 years (white 101yrs, death 101yrs).

Racial Emulation says you count as the race for ALL purposes beyond gaining the traits. Since the aging part is not trait-based, you emerge from isolation as an actual greater slaad!

but I wonder what happens to your original level-based stuff (class levels, etc.) ?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on January 06, 2014, 11:19:31 PM
I'd say the protean scourge is only supposed to split once. All the rules refer to 2 of them, not an infinite army. You can look at the ability 2 ways, each time it's damaged it splits, or when damaged, as in any time it's at less than full hit points, it splits once. The second interpretation makes much more sense, imo.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on January 07, 2014, 02:10:35 AM
Reread Split: The two scourges have all the abilities of the original scourge, except that they cannot change shape (whether that means change shape at all, or only limits the scourges specific ability is slightly nebulous). Since each has the abilities, they each retain split and thus would each split when damaged.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 07, 2014, 03:05:42 AM
What does the Steel Dragon's Minor Arcane Shield do?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on January 07, 2014, 10:02:32 AM
Reread Split: The two scourges have all the abilities of the original scourge, except that they cannot change shape (whether that means change shape at all, or only limits the scourges specific ability is slightly nebulous). Since each has the abilities, they each retain split and thus would each split when damaged.

I read it, I read it thoroughly, I just didn't read it with a bias towards what I wanted out of it. If the PS splits, and then one of the splits splits again, there are no longer 2 of them, as is repeatedly referenced throughout the description of the ability, there would be three. A pair is reasonable, fits the CR, passes the smell test, etc, while infinite PS just doesn't fly. 

Quote
A protean scourge’s deadliest surprise only becomes apparent when it has been damaged in battle: It splits into two protean scourges, each one with the strength and capabilities of a normal protean scourge. Many an unknowing foe has seen a protean scourge use this ability and assumed it to be some other illusion, only to learn too late how real the double really is.

Quote
When damaged, a protean scourge splits into two identical versions of itself.

Logically, if they're both still the same creature, anytime you hit either you just damaged the PS, so it would split again by your interpretation. So what would it split into? The PS in question, which is currently a pair of PS, would split into ... two identical versions of itself. Which leaves you with 2. Something that splits into 2 identical versions of itself splits into 2, not 3, even if it had 2 bodies pre split, because that's what the ability says it does. IF the creature is not the same creature and has a new PS split ability, then you don't have control over it, and have the black pudding issue of just making copies of yourself. Also obvious, if you're currently in 2 bodies and you split into 3, you just changed shape.

Quote
Neither half of the protean scourge can change shape as long as the creature remains split.

Rally, come on, READ. Neither half. There are 7 distinct references to 2, both, either, double, half, and not a single reference to three or more.

You can play it as you like, no doubt, but it's pretty clear what was intended.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 07, 2014, 11:17:18 AM
What does the Steel Dragon's Minor Arcane Shield do?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on January 07, 2014, 12:55:19 PM
Still, with the "can't change shape", either you have two you's locked into the protean scourge form (giving some cool immunities), or you let polymorph run out and have each of you change into a fresh protean scourge, allowing each of you to split. Slower and more costly, but still lets you out populate nations with some work.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 08, 2014, 12:59:44 AM
I was reading through the mounted combat rules recently, and I noticed that you get a +1 on attack rolls while mounted against enemies smaller than your mount... due to being on higher ground.

Now, there are a couple of feats that trigger off being higher than other people. For example, Shi'Quos School (http://dndtools.eu/feats/drow-of-the-underdark--93/shiquos-school--3460/) knocks people prone on a charge unless they succeed on a Reflex save. Nice for a cavalry charger against infantry, me thinks.

Other nice, if tiny, bonuses include:
- Roofwalker gives you a +1 Dodge bonus to AC if you are at a different elevation from your opponent.
- Mountain Warrior gives a +1 bonus on damage rolls for melee attacks, or +1 on ranged attacks, if you are on higher ground.
- Cragtop Archer grants a +2 bonus to Damage rolls with ranged attacks made from higher ground.

So if you are at a loss for feats to take when making a mounted character... here are some options.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 08, 2014, 02:19:45 AM
I noticed that the oh so crappy Arcane Archer can cast any area spell as a standard action, despite having a longer casting time.

oops, I just shot you with an apocalypse from the sky arrow as a standard action.
oops, shot you w an antimagic field arrow  :twitch

force cage from 1000+ ft away?

what happens if you cast Arrowsplit.on the arrow to be imbued? It seems to split the spell off into each arrow. It only changes the possible arrow type.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on January 08, 2014, 03:49:30 AM
(click to show/hide)

Please refrain from telling me what I think; only one of us is inferring from the text. I treat rules text like a program; it does what it says unless there's a preexisting rule that supersedes it or that it's modifying.

First, the ability states its condition; when it happens (on damage). Next it states its effect (scourge becomes exactly 2, no more, no less, identical scourges that share a common spell pool). Last, it states limitations (cannot change shape).

After the effect occurs, each scourge retains the split ability. Thus if any currently split scourge takes damage, that scourge will split into two identical scourges sharing a spell pool.

Your point that neither scourge has control over the other is valid; my assumption that since they effectively share a mind (shared spells, but no telepathy), they are one creature may be incorrect. That is not covered by existing rules to my knowledge.

Edit: fixed unintentional contractions into possessives [/grammar Nazi]
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on January 08, 2014, 05:25:51 AM
You're inferring that "when damaged" refers to each incident where damage is inflicted on the PS, rather than it being a boolean. You inferred about the shape change restriction too.

It's almost impossible not to infer, it's why the DND rules are only thousands of pages rather than billions. Everyone infers, all the time. Problems occur when people pretend they aren't inferring, and conclude that therefore their understanding of the rules must be infallible. BTW I didn't reread it when you told me to, I got a pretty good scan on it the first time.

Sorry if accusing you of bias offended, I suppose I didn't like being told to reread something I just read with an eye for detail. Good luck with your infinite PS gaming.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 08, 2014, 10:05:49 AM
I noticed that the oh so crappy Arcane Archer can cast any area spell as a standard action, despite having a longer casting time.

oops, I just shot you with an apocalypse from the sky arrow as a standard action.
oops, shot you w an antimagic field arrow  :twitch

force cage from 1000+ ft away?
This has been pretty common knowledge for years. :D AA2 is actually a decent capstone to some builds, if you can afford the loss of CLs.

Quote
what happens if you cast Arrowsplit.on the arrow to be imbued? It seems to split the spell off into each arrow. It only changes the possible arrow type.
Oh god... Not touching this with an 11 foot pole. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 08, 2014, 11:21:28 AM
Quote
what happens if you cast Arrowsplit.on the arrow to be imbued? It seems to split the spell off into each arrow. It only changes the possible arrow type.
Oh god... Not touching this with an 11 foot pole. :P
I never learned to follow signs anyway.

Typically, if you have to over empathize a single word, such as identical, in order to make a point then you have failed at reading the entry. In clear context it creates masterwork weapons and it contains none of the wording found in Splitting, which was printed in the same exact book.

So the question becomes, is does Imbuing Arrow work with Splitting? Well like before if you a word, upon, it might work. I say might because the word "property" can distinctly mean an attribute that belongs to the arrow, it's like saying a cowboy is owned by the horse he rides and the bare horse is damaged goods. However if you take the introduction part of the entry with a grain of salt and pay attention the rest; "When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted." The rules of the ability modify the Spell's casting time and targeted location (noted causality of such is using the bow's range rather than the spell's) to match that of the arrow fired as part of the same action. The Spell never once becomes part of the arrow in question at any time.

So you know exactly what my answer would be.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on January 08, 2014, 12:36:16 PM
Although, I wonder how it reacts with Persist Spell.  Spontaneous casters may be at a disadvantage there, but I think a Prepared caster could use it to fire a Persisted spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 08, 2014, 03:04:53 PM
splitting is the same i assume?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 08, 2014, 03:13:12 PM
Although, I wonder how it reacts with Persist Spell.  Spontaneous casters may be at a disadvantage there, but I think a Prepared caster could use it to fire a Persisted spell.
Intro says area and the entry goes on to say, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands. Rays and Personal Spells won't work with it.

Abusing it with Metamagic should work through. Like a Standard Action Empowered Fireball as a Spontaneous Caster. I wonder if there is a way to turn (Lesser) Geas into an area spell, that'd be an amazing usage as well.

splitting is the same i assume?
YEah I'd go with a no go on it. It seems Imbue Arrow modifies an Area Spell.

Spell from Spell Storing and Splitting I believe works through. So there is that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on January 08, 2014, 03:56:48 PM
Persistant spells can have an area, so long as the range is fixed.  Antimagic Field, for example, can be Persisted (though generally a foolish plan), and we know it can be used with Imbue Arrow.  For Prepared casters, the Metamagic is applied before Imbue Arrow does anything odd with the range (as the spell could simply be cast normally until that point).  Order of application matters (hence Reach spell+ Persist Spell generally being considered kosher), so it should be possible to fire a Persisted spell with Imbue Arrow.

Now, finding such a spell that you would want to do that with is a different story.  Most of the interesting ones are Divine buffs to put on allies (use a blunt arrow for it).

That said, I am certain spontaneous casters can use Imbue Arrow for metamagic abuse as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on January 08, 2014, 04:06:00 PM
Although, I wonder how it reacts with Persist Spell.  Spontaneous casters may be at a disadvantage there, but I think a Prepared caster could use it to fire a Persisted spell.
Intro says area and the entry goes on to say, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands. Rays and Personal Spells won't work with it.
Which is why you imbue a glyph of warding that contains the spell you want (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10643). :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 08, 2014, 08:49:19 PM
The Manticore Sting feat from Dragonmarked is pretty cool, especially since it uses Daggers/Shurikens.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 11, 2014, 04:59:55 PM
A tidbit of fluff that I found rather interesting: According to the MiC, Fharlanghn's highest level Clerics are at least 11th level, all have the Sanctify Relic and Craft Arms and Armor feats, and have a CL of 20th for no readily explained reason. The source is the Rapier of Unerring Direction (MiC page 55).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 12, 2014, 02:33:46 PM
A new official damage type... 'frost'

Dlarun metal was never errata'd to deal 'cold' damage, so the 'frost' damage is valid. Plus bypasses cold resistance.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 12, 2014, 02:35:40 PM
Aww heck the wotc NPCs are a wreck, a total wreck.

I thought his name was:  Fahrvergnügen.

CL 20 is nice, 2 feats down on good cleric builds, and can't go Planning for cheap DMM.
Still doing DMM , and also later feat slot Leadership = good enough.

Cleric of F -zilla.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 12, 2014, 03:55:57 PM
Aww heck the wotc NPCs are a wreck, a total wreck.

I thought his name was:  Fahrvergnügen.

CL 20 is nice, 2 feats down on good cleric builds, and can't go Planning for cheap DMM.
Still doing DMM , and also later feat slot Leadership = good enough.

Cleric of F -zilla.

Actually I think it's more interesting for buying items. They canonically have the ability to craft high-level Weapons/Armor, and that in-game religion is fairly easy-going on adventurers.

Of course you could just Mind Rape one of them...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 12, 2014, 04:30:50 PM
The sprayer weapon doesn't suffer a -20 Hide penalty, since its not an attack roll, its a flat standard action to pump.

not an actual weapon, stupid weapon handbook :-p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 13, 2014, 05:50:44 PM
Assuming the CL=20 is a biff not rai (of course) ...
otherwise  :tongue how early does a Cleric of F get the CL boost?
Would seem a decent tag for Battlesmith / Ironsoul Forgemaster / Midgard Dwarf, etc

I was reading through the mounted combat rules recently, and I noticed that you get a +1 on attack rolls while mounted against enemies smaller than your mount... due to being on higher ground.

Now, there are a couple of feats that trigger off being higher than other people. For example, Shi'Quos School (http://dndtools.eu/feats/drow-of-the-underdark--93/shiquos-school--3460/) knocks people prone on a charge unless they succeed on a Reflex save. Nice for a cavalry charger against infantry, me thinks.

Other nice, if tiny, bonuses include:
- Roofwalker gives you a +1 Dodge bonus to AC if you are at a different elevation from your opponent.
- Mountain Warrior gives a +1 bonus on damage rolls for melee attacks, or +1 on ranged attacks, if you are on higher ground.
- Cragtop Archer grants a +2 bonus to Damage rolls with ranged attacks made from higher ground.

So if you are at a loss for feats to take when making a mounted character... here are some options.

Hack up a Fat Jumper build ... provided there's some way to Dismount ultra fast + trigger all the Fat Jumper stuff + in one Move.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 13, 2014, 06:28:35 PM
Well, for quick mounting/dismounting...

A DC 20 Ride check lets you mount/dismount a mount as a free action, as long as you still have a Move action for the round.

So someone with a +19 Ride modifier can always do it, as long as they have a move action left to use.

Which brings me to another fun find: the Halfling Outrider PrC can grant an infinite number of attacks, as long as you have a single move action left unused and you have at least 5 levels in the class.

1. You ride up next to your poor target. Wait a round, or point out that you haven't used a Move action yet.
2. You make a DC 20 Ride check to dismount into an adjacent square. Then, since your enemy is within your reach (you rode up to the bastard), you get a free melee attack with a +2 to hit (but, unfortunately, a -2 to AC.)
3. Then, make a DC 20 Ride check to get back on your mount.
4. Repeat 2 and 3 until your opponent is made of fine, fine paste.

Ta da!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on January 13, 2014, 06:54:27 PM
Wand Bonding (CoS) is Channel Charge plus for warforged. I hate the editing on this book.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 14, 2014, 12:27:16 AM
@Amechra
nice!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: X-Codes on January 14, 2014, 12:41:17 AM
Wand Bonding (CoS) is Channel Charge plus for warforged. I hate the editing on this book.
Found this a little over 3 hours before I did, lol.

Yes, the Eberron books tend to be terribly edited, not just this one.  I don't think any of them has an index, and a significant number of them have sidebars not listed in the tables of contents with stuff like feats, spells, and other misc. stuff in them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 14, 2014, 12:48:12 AM
Yeah, besides campaign setting, the Eberron books are very annoying trying to find something in
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on January 14, 2014, 10:46:29 AM
Sharn: City of Towers has two mages' circles in it.  The benefits are rather minor, for the most part (especially for the annual cost of 250gp/caster level you have), but item crafters (especially Artificiers) can make good use of the 10% gold and xp cost reduction in crafting costs for members.  10% off most spell components can also be handy.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 14, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
DAMN IT!

I just realized something. Maenads sparkle in the sunlight. They are LITERALLY described as having their skin glitter like gemstones when the light catches it right.

Therefor, Twilight Vampires can be statted out as Maenad Vampires with that one magic item that makes them not poof in sunlight. So now they can be murdered with extreme prejudice, if you so choose.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 15, 2014, 09:56:30 AM
Yeah, besides campaign setting, the Eberron books are very annoying trying to find something in

As much as I love the setting, the organization is terrible. One thing WotC got right with 4E was properly organizing the content and indexing everything.

DAMN IT!

I just realized something. Maenads sparkle in the sunlight. They are LITERALLY described as having their skin glitter like gemstones when the light catches it right.

Therefor, Twilight Vampires can be statted out as Maenad Vampires with that one magic item that makes them not poof in sunlight. So now they can be murdered with extreme prejudice, if you so choose.

I shall annihilate the species the same way I obliterated the Jackal Skirmishers in Halo Reach: Personally, with extra helpings of GUN.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 15, 2014, 10:36:35 AM
Yeah, besides campaign setting, the Eberron books are very annoying trying to find something in
No kidding.

Speaking of City of Stormreach, per RC Sleight of Hand was nerfed with limitations on what can be stolen and if you were noticed then you immediately switched to using Disarm/Grapple rules. Master Pickpocket allows you to steal anything not in their hand.
And reduces the Free Action penalty to -10.
It also removes the AoO for using the Skill, and I can't find anything that says it does anyway. But hey, now you're covered against some houserules just in case.

Just remember, a Mount holds a creature not in hand  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 16, 2014, 02:18:07 PM
Targath: Even a small amount of targath worn or carried on the body grants a character a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves against disease.

An arrow head looks about the same size as a periapt and oh hey look it says +3gp for ammunition. Less than 4gp for +2 vs Disease, useful for any 1st level medic.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 16, 2014, 02:22:19 PM
Targath: Even a small amount of targath worn or carried on the body grants a character a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves against disease.

An arrow head looks about the same size as a periapt and oh hey look it says +3gp for ammunition. Less than 4gp for +2 vs Disease, useful for any 1st level medic.
Recycling from Bunko's? Or would this be better categorized as advertising?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 16, 2014, 03:41:54 PM
Targath: Even a small amount of targath worn or carried on the body grants a character a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves against disease.

An arrow head looks about the same size as a periapt and oh hey look it says +3gp for ammunition. Less than 4gp for +2 vs Disease, useful for any 1st level medic.
Interesting.  What's the source?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 16, 2014, 04:00:04 PM

Speaking of City of Stormreach, per RC Sleight of Hand was nerfed with limitations on what can be stolen and if you were noticed then you immediately switched to using Disarm/Grapple rules. Master Pickpocket allows you to steal anything not in their hand.
And reduces the Free Action penalty to -10.
It also removes the AoO for using the Skill, and I can't find anything that says it does anyway. But hey, now you're covered against some houserules just in case.

Just remember, a Mount holds a creature not in hand  :smirk

But what C.O. really wants to know, is what happens to the Steal Your Own Pants build?
 :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 16, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Recycling from Bunko's? Or would this be better categorized as advertising?
Now that it's in the thread, it could be the former.

Interesting.  What's the source?
ECS, found it this morning looking poking around for Special Materials. Actually considering making a material list (probably incorporate into class boosters) just so I don't have to keep digging for the one(s) I want.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 16, 2014, 04:54:47 PM
I think I've got a list of the materials if I can find it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 16, 2014, 05:06:34 PM
Recycling from Bunko's? Or would this be better categorized as advertising?
Now that it's in the thread, it could be the former.
I guess I saw it in the Shax's Handy Haversack thread, not Bunko's...

Edit: Nope. It was in the Weapons post in Bunko's since at least December 2013 (last time that one was edited). I felt pretty sure I'd seen in there before.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 16, 2014, 10:37:44 PM
I just found a small boost. A small one, but a nice one.

Fey Power, which requires Fey Heritage (+3 to Will saves vs. the entire Enchantment school), gives a +1 to the save DCs and caster level of all Warlock invocations (as well as Enchantment spells.)

Not super-duper amazing, but it is pretty damn decent for a feat.

EDIT: Another fun feat is Fell Conspiracy: You just need 4 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and Wisdom 13+ to take it, and it lets you give the entire party Message at will for 24 hours as a 20 minute ritual.

However, since it's a [Ceremony] feat, it has 2 other benefits: if you have 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), you can use up 50gp to grab everyone 100' telepathic communication with each-other for 24 hours. And, if you have 12 ranks, you can spend an additional 150gp to essentially give everyone in that telepathic network the Hivemind special ability.

Ceremony feats are lovely for anyone who can afford the money burn; 200gp for every day of adventuring might be expensive, but the benefits are worth it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 16, 2014, 10:57:06 PM
I just found a small boost. A small one, but a nice one.

Fey Power, which requires Fey Heritage (+3 to Will saves vs. the entire Enchantment school), gives a +1 to the save DCs and caster level of all Warlock invocations (as well as Enchantment spells.)

Not super-duper amazing, but it is pretty damn decent for a feat.

It's also in there with Fiendish Power (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/fiendish-power--1119/).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 17, 2014, 09:12:57 AM
I just found a small boost. A small one, but a nice one.

Fey Power, which requires Fey Heritage (+3 to Will saves vs. the entire Enchantment school), gives a +1 to the save DCs and caster level of all Warlock invocations (as well as Enchantment spells.)

Not super-duper amazing, but it is pretty damn decent for a feat.

EDIT: Another fun feat is Fell Conspiracy: You just need 4 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and Wisdom 13+ to take it, and it lets you give the entire party Message at will for 24 hours as a 20 minute ritual.

However, since it's a [Ceremony] feat, it has 2 other benefits: if you have 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), you can use up 50gp to grab everyone 100' telepathic communication with each-other for 24 hours. And, if you have 12 ranks, you can spend an additional 150gp to essentially give everyone in that telepathic network the Hivemind special ability.

Ceremony feats are lovely for anyone who can afford the money burn; 200gp for every day of adventuring might be expensive, but the benefits are worth it.

50gp allows someone to qualify for Mindsight at 5th level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 17, 2014, 12:26:56 PM
EDIT: Another fun feat is Fell Conspiracy: You just need 4 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and Wisdom 13+ to take it, and it lets you give the entire party Message at will for 24 hours as a 20 minute ritual.

However, since it's a [Ceremony] feat, it has 2 other benefits: if you have 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), you can use up 50gp to grab everyone 100' telepathic communication with each-other for 24 hours. And, if you have 12 ranks, you can spend an additional 150gp to essentially give everyone in that telepathic network the Hivemind special ability.

Ceremony feats are lovely for anyone who can afford the money burn; 200gp for every day of adventuring might be expensive, but the benefits are worth it.

I wish the fluff was done a bit differently.  Wanting to be able to communicate with just a thought has far more uses than just a "dark purpose."  A group of Good adventurers wanting to infiltrate an Evil organization, for example.  I suppose that's another thing to be added to my eventual houserule list...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on January 17, 2014, 01:38:53 PM
It's nice that they decided to not limit it to evil people.

I'm kinda sad that they only had Ceremony Feats in Dragon Magic (4 of them), PHB II (2 of them), and EoE (2 of them), and only the ones in EoE are any good, really. I might do a mini-handbook at some point, because there is some benefit in all of them (except Ritual Blessing. SCREW Ritual Blessing.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on January 17, 2014, 01:44:59 PM
The Ice Golem (Frostburn) has an ability called "Ice Shards", which does some damage and has a save-or-blind. The blind DC is constitution-based. It's a golem. It doesn't have a CON.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 17, 2014, 01:51:22 PM
The Ice Golem (Frostburn) has an ability called "Ice Shards", which does some damage and has a save-or-blind. The blind DC is constitution-based. It's a golem. It doesn't have a CON.
Well, there's always that template in Magic of Incarnum that turns a construct into a Living Construct...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 17, 2014, 01:54:17 PM
It's nice that they decided to not limit it to evil people.

I'm kinda sad that they only had Ceremony Feats in Dragon Magic (4 of them), PHB II (2 of them), and EoE (2 of them), and only the ones in EoE are any good, really. I might do a mini-handbook at some point, because there is some benefit in all of them (except Ritual Blessing. SCREW Ritual Blessing.)

Yeah, there are only a few ceremony feats (http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/ceremony/) sadly.  I too am glad it's not strictly limited to evil people, but the fluff is still such that it's not exactly something certain Good characters would take even though the benefits are totally worthwhile.

The Ice Golem (Frostburn) has an ability called "Ice Shards", which does some damage and has a save-or-blind. The blind DC is constitution-based. It's a golem. It doesn't have a CON.

Eh, I'm not so sure they dropped the ball on it.  The save DC is listed and for a CR 9 encounter it's a decent DC for being a free action every 2 to 5 rounds.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on January 17, 2014, 02:10:07 PM
I think the level of the DC is fine. It just amuses me that they based it off of a non-ability.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 18, 2014, 12:51:33 PM
Necropolitan Changeling brings up some interesting roleplay possibilities since the change Shape ability isn't lost, although the Disguise Self spell is a bit ambiguous on what its full capabilities are. "You cannot change your body type."  I wonder if we might want a new thread to analyze that and come to some reasonable conclusions given the spell level and all.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on January 18, 2014, 03:45:01 PM
Necropolitan Changeling brings up some interesting roleplay possibilities since the change Shape ability isn't lost, although the Disguise Self spell is a bit ambiguous on what its full capabilities are. "You cannot change your body type."  I wonder if we might want a new thread to analyze that and come to some reasonable conclusions given the spell level and all.

Unseelie Fey is rather similar at times.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 18, 2014, 04:17:05 PM
I like that a changeling has the ability to enter other race PrCs, Slaadi Brooder.

What happens if the changeling enters the Yuan-to Cultist and reaches the ability that changes him into a yuan-to abomination? I assume you actually turn into one and lose access to Racial Emulation, but still qualify for the PrC and thus not looping prereq lose/regain.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Skevvix on January 19, 2014, 04:14:36 AM
I think this spell should be a mandatory Custom Magic Item for everyone.

(click to show/hide)

Provides concealment (unspecified as to how much) and when you are attacked (no specified range) they get attacked back for a d12!

It seems like this could be (ab)used to great effect by a Knight/Tank.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 19, 2014, 10:25:03 AM
Provides concealment (unspecified as to how much) and when you are attacked (no specified range) they get attacked back for a d12!
Concealment in vary amounts is 3.0 rules, in 3.5 Concealment provides a standardized 20% miss chance and Full-Concealment provides a 50% miss chance.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 19, 2014, 01:09:25 PM
Quote from: the guy too lazy to put this into a demotivator
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm
Boiling water deals 1d6 points of scalding damage, unless the character is fully immersed, in which case it deals 10d6 points of damage per round of exposure.
Hot water hurts lava immune creatures.
Seems legit.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 19, 2014, 01:58:46 PM
Provides concealment (unspecified as to how much) and when you are attacked (no specified range) they get attacked back for a d12!
Concealment in vary amounts is 3.0 rules, in 3.5 Concealment provides a standardized 20% miss chance and Full-Concealment provides a 50% miss chance.

those are the main ones in 3.5, there are some things that grant unusual %s of miss chance.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 19, 2014, 02:40:49 PM
those are the main ones in 3.5, there are some things that grant unusual %s of miss chance.
irrelevant. I was clarifying Crawling Darkness's granted a 20% miss chance because Concealment is defined as bestowing a 20% miss chance unless noted otherwise.

Specific Miss-Chance related oddities have no bearing on general rules and mentioning them was a waste of time on both our parts.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 19, 2014, 02:50:05 PM
That's why I was saying the 20/50%s were the MAIN ones ;)
Title: We talking about miss chance?
Post by: Captnq on January 20, 2014, 09:36:39 AM
CONCEALING AMORPHA, GREATER
- EXPANDED PSIONICS HANDBOOK (3.5)
(click to show/hide)
Editor: A 50% miss chance on all attacks made on you is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is avoiding all attacks of opportunity. Furthermore, a technical reading of this power says that it blocks line of sight, which means that you can’t be targeted with effects that automatically affect one or more individual targets (e.g. you could not be targeted with Ego Whip, though a Crystal Shard could still be aimed at you, though it would suffer the 50% miss chance). Since it’s a Creation effect, it can’t be defeated by powers like True Seeing and Touchsight. Exception: many DMs may be loathe to allow you to avoid targeted effects with this power, and will nerf that part of the power through house rule. In such case, this power drops to green.
Editor (Contributor): They can still target your square. You aren’t subject to AoOs either - letting you move about the battlefield, or even shoot/manifest while surrounded with impunity. Finally, it’s not an illusion, so by RAW it defeats See Invisibility and even the almighty True Seeing (but not Steadfast Perception or blindsight, so watch out.) Immunity to AoOs and targeted spells makes it a great defensive buff, even with the short duration. You probably already have its little brother though, and they don’t stack.
Editor (Persistent Power): Technically a 3.0 feat, but it is consistent with the conversion rules in the ELH. For a +8 (or +6 with metapower), this will last 24 hours (48 with Extend Power). But oh my GHOD, at 11th you can have 24 hours of 50% miss chance. When does that ever get old?

I must say, the psionomicon has turned up some interesting RAW. Interested in anyways to improve this or shut it down.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 20, 2014, 11:48:16 AM
Quote from: the guy too lazy to put this into a demotivator
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm
Boiling water deals 1d6 points of scalding damage, unless the character is fully immersed, in which case it deals 10d6 points of damage per round of exposure.
Hot water hurts lava immune creatures.
Seems legit.

Fire Resistance 1 is enough to render you immune to touching/immersing yourself in lava, but doesn't help against the heat it gives off very much.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on January 20, 2014, 12:21:01 PM
Fire Resistance 1 is enough to render you immune to touching/immersing yourself in lava, but doesn't help against the heat it gives off very much.

Rules Compendium corrected that little error.  No longer is there mention of fire resistance granting immunity to lava.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 21, 2014, 05:49:30 PM
Found something new in the good-old DMG:

Quote from: DMG pg 166, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Karasuthra Hunter’s Glen
Among the most famous game in the place are the white stags. These elusive creatures (treat as celestial chargers; see page 250 of the Monster Manual) live for the thrill of the chase and consider the hunt part of their life cycle. Even the most devoted defender of good can hunt a white stag, for the stag knows the consequences and is willing to be prey. But white stags don’t give themselves up. They take great glee in using their wiles and unparalleled knowledge of the forest to confound hunters from other planes. No creatures native to the Beastlands will attack a white stag. Instead, they turn on the hunters with unbridled ferocity.

The antlers of a white stag stretch wide enough that it’s possible to fashion a composite longbow out of them using the Craft (bow-making) skill (making checks against DC 30). Such a bow is considered of masterwork quality, and magical enhancements placed on the bow cost 10% less because the antlers have an affinity for magic.

A 10% discount on bow enhancements? I'll take it!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on January 21, 2014, 11:25:05 PM
Found something new in the good-old DMG:

Quote from: DMG pg 166, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Karasuthra Hunter’s Glen
Among the most famous game in the place are the white stags. These elusive creatures (treat as celestial chargers; see page 250 of the Monster Manual) live for the thrill of the chase and consider the hunt part of their life cycle. Even the most devoted defender of good can hunt a white stag, for the stag knows the consequences and is willing to be prey. But white stags don’t give themselves up. They take great glee in using their wiles and unparalleled knowledge of the forest to confound hunters from other planes. No creatures native to the Beastlands will attack a white stag. Instead, they turn on the hunters with unbridled ferocity.

The antlers of a white stag stretch wide enough that it’s possible to fashion a composite longbow out of them using the Craft (bow-making) skill (making checks against DC 30). Such a bow is considered of masterwork quality, and magical enhancements placed on the bow cost 10% less because the antlers have an affinity for magic.

A 10% discount on bow enhancements? I'll take it!

Downside is that you might end up chasing it through a portal that leads to a world covered with a permanent anti-magic field.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 22, 2014, 12:47:02 PM
Downside is that you might end up chasing it through a portal that leads to a world covered with a permanent anti-magic field.

Care to point out where it says that's a possible occurrence?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on January 22, 2014, 02:01:52 PM
Sounds like a literary of otherwise fictional reference; someone may have chased a white stag through a portal to earth once. Possibly the one that led the kids out of Narnia (Thanks Wikipedia!)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on January 22, 2014, 02:43:23 PM
Found something new in the good-old DMG:

Quote from: DMG pg 166, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Karasuthra Hunter’s Glen
Among the most famous game in the place are the white stags. These elusive creatures (treat as celestial chargers; see page 250 of the Monster Manual) live for the thrill of the chase and consider the hunt part of their life cycle. Even the most devoted defender of good can hunt a white stag, for the stag knows the consequences and is willing to be prey. But white stags don’t give themselves up. They take great glee in using their wiles and unparalleled knowledge of the forest to confound hunters from other planes. No creatures native to the Beastlands will attack a white stag. Instead, they turn on the hunters with unbridled ferocity.

The antlers of a white stag stretch wide enough that it’s possible to fashion a composite longbow out of them using the Craft (bow-making) skill (making checks against DC 30). Such a bow is considered of masterwork quality, and magical enhancements placed on the bow cost 10% less because the antlers have an affinity for magic.

A 10% discount on bow enhancements? I'll take it!

Downside is that you might end up chasing it through a portal that leads to a world covered with a permanent anti-magic field.
Its ok, you can always dual class to Fighter.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on January 22, 2014, 08:29:21 PM
Sounds like a literary of otherwise fictional reference; someone may have chased a white stag through a portal to earth once. Possibly the one that led the kids out of Narnia (Thanks Wikipedia!)

And Chemus wins the prize of sorry nothing.

So I recently discovered that in fact Martial Wizard 5/Zhentarim Skymage 5/Incantatrix 3/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils 7 is pretty much the ideal feat alignment. Combat Casting and Mounted Combat are your wizard bonus feats, Iron Will comes from the old Otyugh Hole. Skymage gives Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (Abjuration), and Enlarge Spell as bonus feats. Incantatrix is covered by your Iron Will and Enlarge Spell, while you only have to take Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration) with a real feat slot to get into IofSV. Kinda weird how they lead into each other so well feat wise.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 22, 2014, 09:23:40 PM
Skymage is one of the most powerful PrCs out there, and a personal favorite
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on January 22, 2014, 09:45:30 PM
Skymage is one of the most powerful PrCs out there, and a personal favorite

Clearly the build is only utilizing it for the flavor of the merged feats, I mean it would trade it's familiar out for a handy ACF, and nothing without a familiar can be broken right?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on January 22, 2014, 11:03:04 PM
According to the charts in the Random Town Generation tables in the DMG, a 20 person Thorp has about a 1% chance of having a 13th level Druid living there. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on January 22, 2014, 11:51:32 PM
If I'm wrong, let me know.

Okay, the two feats:

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

So Power touch reads, “You can MAKE attacks of opportunity” Opportunity Power reads, “WHEN you make an attack of opportunity”. So Power Touch feat makes an AoO. The Metapower feat allows you to manifest a power as an immediate action WITH your AoO. So as it reads, this lets you AoO someone with a power, then you can use your immediate action to manifest ANOTHER touch attack on them, and hit them with a double whammy.

Power point intensive, but frankly it'd scare the crap out of me to get hit with two manifest powers in quick succession because I triggered an AoO.

 Talk about going Nova. Considering the power point costs, I’d allow it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on January 23, 2014, 01:37:40 AM
Snowcasting (feat) gives all of your spells the [Cold] descriptor.
Blue Ice (Frostburn? material) armor has no ASF for [Cold] spells.
Eschew Materials gets rid of the Snowcasting snow requirement.

Two feats (one if you don't mind carrying snow) + material on your armor = no ASF!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on January 23, 2014, 04:50:34 AM
According to the charts in the Random Town Generation tables in the DMG, a 20 person Thorp has about a 1% chance of having a 13th level Druid living there.

And 2 7th level druids, 4 3rd level druids and 8 1st level druids. Who knows what the other five people do in this commune...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 23, 2014, 07:26:02 AM
According to the charts in the Random Town Generation tables in the DMG, a 20 person Thorp has about a 1% chance of having a 13th level Druid living there.
And 2 7th level druids, 4 3rd level druids and 8 1st level druids. Who knows what the other five people do in this commune...
They are Bards, they make a good 5th man and hippies like to dance.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on January 23, 2014, 10:28:21 AM
The Rod of Surprises (Magic of Faerun) is a budget version of the Rod of Lordly Might that can switch between a +1 halfspear, javelin, kama, longspear, quarterstaff, scythe, shortspear or short sword. Take the Quick Draw feat so you can switch between forms as a free action, and you effectively have spiked-chain-style reach.

The RoLM itself can be used to activate the High Sword Low Axe (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=High_Sword_Low_Axe) feat by switching forms in the middle of your attack routine.

Power Touch + Opportunity Power
3.5 psionics overwrites 3.0 psionics, and Opportunity Power is clearly the 3.5 version of (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x) Power Touch, which would make Power Touch illegal anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on January 23, 2014, 02:56:18 PM
Power Touch + Opportunity Power
3.5 psionics overwrites 3.0 psionics, and Opportunity Power is clearly the 3.5 version of (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x) Power Touch, which would make Power Touch illegal anyway.
One sec...

Your link does not list either of the feats.

What are you talking about?

I see no indication anywhere that the Metapower Opportunity Power is replacing the Psionic Feat Power touch. Both have different names and text. I have found no errata to say such. Please indicate where you have this via link, or book name/page number.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 23, 2014, 03:02:38 PM
I think I've discovered a (convoluted) way to hunt down someone who is constantly under the effect of a Mind Blank effect.
It would take a while to get up and running, and wouldn't work against someone who is hidden away and never makes a public appearance.  It would eventually work if you at least knew where the target tends to hang out (if they have a base of operations that is near a town, etc).  I'm writing this from the view point of trying to hunt down PC's.

First, get a humanoid to start asking around about the PC's.  Probably easiest to dominate a low-level character to that effect.

Second, either the PC's hear about someone asking questions, and hunt down and kill the low-level human (perhaps he is dominated and has been ordered to make threatening remarks, but not attack the PC's), or the low-level human actually finds them, and approaches them in a way that sets the PC's spidey-senses tingling.  With a little luck, and carelessness on the part of the targets, they end up murdering the low-level human.  The fact he is low level increases the chances that they will accidentally kill him outright before realizing how squishy he is.

Third, the target is raised as a Revenant.  The monster entry in Monsters of Faerun doesn't give a proscribed way as to how this happens (aside from spontaneously when someone is murdered), but in the adventure City of the Spider Queen is a minor artifact, the Claw of the Revnancer, which has the ability to turn any corpse into a Revenant under the control of the claw's wielder.  (I know, it takes an artifact; I told you it was convoluted).

Revenants have the following ability:
Quote
Find the Guilty (Ex): So long as a revenant and its killer are on the same plane of existence, the revenant will know which direction its killer can be found in and how far away he is. Depending on the magical abilities of the base creature, this extraordinary sense may even work across planar boundaries.
They are also immune to rebuking or turning.

So far as I can tell, this works even if the murderer is under the effects of Mind Blank (just as Scent or Blindsight would work against someone with Mind Blank).

The Claw of the Revnancer does specify that if a Revenant is ever ordered to seek out its murderer, the claw's control over the Revenant is immediately and permanently ended.

However, nothing seems to prevent Control Undead or Command Undead from affecting a Revenant.

So, trick the PC's into murdering someone, retrieve his corpse, turn him into a Revenant, use Command or Control Undead upon it (another reason why a low-level character is best for this), then tell it to seek out its killer, followed by asking it where its killer is located.

So long as you and the Revenant are on the same plane as the PC's, you can always find them (well, until the Revenant completely rots away, which its monster entry says takes about six months; maybe gentle repose would help in that regard).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on January 23, 2014, 03:29:59 PM
Nephelium (Sunless Citadel, p32) is transparent steel.  It doesn't provide any mechanical benefit, but it's only +100 gp for weapons and armor, so you could throw it on just for style. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 23, 2014, 03:51:20 PM
So I recently discovered that in fact Martial Wizard 5/Zhentarim Skymage 5/Incantatrix 3/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils 7 is pretty much the ideal feat alignment. Combat Casting and Mounted Combat are your wizard bonus feats, Iron Will comes from the old Otyugh Hole. Skymage gives Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (Abjuration), and Enlarge Spell as bonus feats. Incantatrix is covered by your Iron Will and Enlarge Spell, while you only have to take Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration) with a real feat slot to get into IofSV. Kinda weird how they lead into each other so well feat wise.
Looks like a great build. I'll have to use this sometime. Would like to see it fleshed out into an actual character.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 23, 2014, 05:13:12 PM
(click to show/hide)

Although I am not aware of if/where there is text how to otherwise create Revenant's, the following lends credence to being able to with Create Greater Undead (at no more than CL20, given the artifacts own CL)

Quote
The undead-creation function of the claw uses the spell trigger activation method, so the wearer must have create greater undead on his or her spell list to use this ability.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on January 23, 2014, 05:52:22 PM
(click to show/hide)

Although I am not aware of if/where there is text how to otherwise create Revenant's, the following lends credence to being able to with Create Greater Undead (at no more than CL20, given the artifacts own CL)

Quote
The undead-creation function of the claw uses the spell trigger activation method, so the wearer must have create greater undead on his or her spell list to use this ability.

or you could just use metafaculty and/or hypercognition.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 23, 2014, 06:44:59 PM
or you could just use metafaculty and/or hypercognition.
Good to note for the future, but if a game doesn't use psionics, then (I think) I just found a way without it to overcome Mind Blank.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on January 25, 2014, 09:29:11 PM
From the planar traits list of the Far Realm, MotP:
Quote
Maddening:  Moving through the Far Realm is to see, hear, and think in a way that mortal brains are not designed for. Travelers might sprout eyes on their palms, relive a hundred childhoods simultaneously wherein their parents were secretly Far Realm wights, or backward speaking begin. Entry into the Far Realm requires nonnatives to succeed at a Will save (DC 20) to stave off insanity (as the insanity spell). Visitors must make Will saves when they first enter the Far Realm and every hour thereafter.
... begin speaking backward.

Someone was having a little too much fun when they wrote that  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 26, 2014, 04:15:48 PM
Are you sure?
Are you really sure?
It doesn't look wrong to me.
And it hasn't looked "wrong" to how many hundreds of thousands of d&d players.
It doesn't look wrong to anybody else here, right?

Perhaps you're asking the wrong question ... did you fail your Will Save?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SolEiji on January 27, 2014, 09:32:56 AM
Normal is everything, about on he's what know don't I.

More spiders for your tea, Colonel Golem?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 27, 2014, 11:13:53 AM
From the planar traits list of the Far Realm, MotP:
Quote
Maddening:  Moving through the Far Realm is to see, hear, and think in a way that mortal brains are not designed for. Travelers might sprout eyes on their palms, relive a hundred childhoods simultaneously wherein their parents were secretly Far Realm wights, or backward speaking begin. Entry into the Far Realm requires nonnatives to succeed at a Will save (DC 20) to stave off insanity (as the insanity spell). Visitors must make Will saves when they first enter the Far Realm and every hour thereafter.
... begin speaking backward.

Someone was having a little too much fun when they wrote that  :rolleyes

That's good, but it's still only a 2nd place runner compared to my favorite D&D Easter Egg.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on January 27, 2014, 11:21:42 AM
From the planar traits list of the Far Realm, MotP:
Quote
Maddening:  Moving through the Far Realm is to see, hear, and think in a way that mortal brains are not designed for. Travelers might sprout eyes on their palms, relive a hundred childhoods simultaneously wherein their parents were secretly Far Realm wights, or backward speaking begin. Entry into the Far Realm requires nonnatives to succeed at a Will save (DC 20) to stave off insanity (as the insanity spell). Visitors must make Will saves when they first enter the Far Realm and every hour thereafter.
... begin speaking backward.

Someone was having a little too much fun when they wrote that  :rolleyes
That's good, but it's still only a 2nd place runner compared to my favorite D&D Easter Egg.

i'll take a stab and guess that it isn't the déjà vu power (which was printed twice in the book...).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 27, 2014, 12:15:36 PM
From the planar traits list of the Far Realm, MotP:
Quote
Maddening:  Moving through the Far Realm is to see, hear, and think in a way that mortal brains are not designed for. Travelers might sprout eyes on their palms, relive a hundred childhoods simultaneously wherein their parents were secretly Far Realm wights, or backward speaking begin. Entry into the Far Realm requires nonnatives to succeed at a Will save (DC 20) to stave off insanity (as the insanity spell). Visitors must make Will saves when they first enter the Far Realm and every hour thereafter.
... begin speaking backward.

Someone was having a little too much fun when they wrote that  :rolleyes
That's good, but it's still only a 2nd place runner compared to my favorite D&D Easter Egg.

i'll take a stab and guess that it isn't the déjà vu power (which was printed twice in the book...).
[/quote

It is. I love that one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 27, 2014, 05:52:16 PM
From the planar traits list of the Far Realm, MotP:
Quote
Maddening:  Moving through the Far Realm is to see, hear, and think in a way that mortal brains are not designed for. Travelers might sprout eyes on their palms, relive a hundred childhoods simultaneously wherein their parents were secretly Far Realm wights, or backward speaking begin. Entry into the Far Realm requires nonnatives to succeed at a Will save (DC 20) to stave off insanity (as the insanity spell). Visitors must make Will saves when they first enter the Far Realm and every hour thereafter.
... begin speaking backward.

Someone was having a little too much fun when they wrote that  :rolleyes
That's good, but it's still only a 2nd place runner compared to my favorite D&D Easter Egg.

i'll take a stab and guess that it isn't the déjà vu power (which was printed twice in the book...).

It is. I love that one.

One of the two DejaVu's in the srd got errata'd.
Which one is it?
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on January 28, 2014, 12:30:03 AM
This regional feat combined with the Chameleon prestige class and its changeable bonus feat could allow someone to gain an extra hit point every day until their demise.

Mind Over Body
(click to show/hide)

Also could work with  the Metamagic storm magical location but that would be exspensive.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on January 28, 2014, 12:51:13 AM
You could read it that way.  The DM could also slap you with a trout.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on January 28, 2014, 01:16:54 AM
Never said it was cheesy, and I would slap a player with more than a trout if they tried that in one of my games  :D
But as far as I know, fun finds and cheesy combo's are not mutually exclusive from each other.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on January 28, 2014, 12:01:09 PM
The Touchstone feat in Sandstorm is obtainable by level 6 without early skill point shenanigans.

Attune yourself to the Healing Waters of Abu-Ima (an ECL 5 location).

Voila, Raise Dead as a Spell-Like Ability, so you skip the costly diamonds, in E6.

In other campaigns it's just a very cheap Raise Dead.

I think with early shenanigans you could get Raise Dead at something like level 2... but the ECL 5 part makes it risky.

Similarly, one of the next locations is ECL 6 and gets you Undeath to Death, which is a 6th level spell with a 500gp component as an SLA.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 28, 2014, 10:56:53 PM
I'm so adding that to Class-Boosters, maybe Bunko's too. Nice reminder.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 29, 2014, 01:10:21 PM
The Touchstone feat in Sandstorm is obtainable by level 6 without early skill point shenanigans.

Attune yourself to the Healing Waters of Abu-Ima (an ECL 5 location).

Voila, Raise Dead as a Spell-Like Ability, so you skip the costly diamonds, in E6.

In other campaigns it's just a very cheap Raise Dead.

I think with early shenanigans you could get Raise Dead at something like level 2... but the ECL 5 part makes it risky.

Similarly, one of the next locations is ECL 6 and gets you Undeath to Death, which is a 6th level spell with a 500gp component as an SLA.

For non-E6 games, and I may have posted about this earlier, Dragonmarked printed a feat that expands the Mark of Healing (which already granted Lesser Restoration as an SLA) to give it Revivify 1/day as a Greater ability. Multiple uses can be obtained via Dragonmarked Heir and other feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 29, 2014, 01:37:54 PM
The Touchstone feat in Sandstorm is obtainable by level 6 without early skill point shenanigans.

Attune yourself to the Healing Waters of Abu-Ima (an ECL 5 location).

Voila, Raise Dead as a Spell-Like Ability, so you skip the costly diamonds, in E6.

In other campaigns it's just a very cheap Raise Dead.

I think with early shenanigans you could get Raise Dead at something like level 2... but the ECL 5 part makes it risky.

Similarly, one of the next locations is ECL 6 and gets you Undeath to Death, which is a 6th level spell with a 500gp component as an SLA.

This is relevant to my interests.

Higher order abilities still remain in the DM realm, as its quite unlikely for an E6 party to be able to hop directly to exact sites, and so it doesn't guarantee access to Raise Dead.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 29, 2014, 02:58:17 PM
The Touchstone feat in Sandstorm is obtainable by level 6 without early skill point shenanigans.

Attune yourself to the Healing Waters of Abu-Ima (an ECL 5 location).

Voila, Raise Dead as a Spell-Like Ability, so you skip the costly diamonds, in E6.

In other campaigns it's just a very cheap Raise Dead.

I think with early shenanigans you could get Raise Dead at something like level 2... but the ECL 5 part makes it risky.

Similarly, one of the next locations is ECL 6 and gets you Undeath to Death, which is a 6th level spell with a 500gp component as an SLA.

This is relevant to my interests.

Higher order abilities still remain in the DM realm, as its quite unlikely for an E6 party to be able to hop directly to exact sites, and so it doesn't guarantee access to Raise Dead.
A Psion (Nomad) can make for a pretty reliable planar traveler, and can take the whole party with him, at level 5. Each trip could turn into an adventure itself, though, due to the way Astral Caravan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralCaravan.htm) works.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 29, 2014, 08:18:12 PM
So ...  :plotting ... psychoportation gets you early Raise Dead.

 :clap
Good one for psychoportation.
May the C.O. gawds smile on you again in another 10 years.
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 29, 2014, 11:57:58 PM
I believe higher order / recharge still requires Turn Undead

Even if you make a trek using Astral Caravan, it seems like you're still 10-1000 miles off the destination, unless I'm mistaken.
Multiple DC 20 know(planes) checks with probably a -10 modifier for only secondhand knowledge. Take 10 possible.
Assume: 9 ranks, 5 ability score mod, 5 competence ring, 2 circumstance mwk tool for + 21, ok check no problem

In terms of E6, once landing, an accurate/ powerful enough/reliable [divination] school spell for guidance might be out of reach.
Oracle Domain for Divination at 3rd, at best?
Maybe Find the Path on some random Dragonmark SLA, if accessible.

Teleport is still available, with danger, via Cerebrosis / Dimension Rift, if necessary

Ok, so, doable, with some specifics
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on January 30, 2014, 08:37:44 AM
Why's everyone talking about planar travel? This is Touchstone (http://dndtools.eu/feats/sandstorm--85/touchstone--2945/), not Planar Touchstone (http://dndtools.eu/feats/planar-handbook--79/planar-touchstone--2173/).

The recharge condition does require turn undead.

You can rent a camel, buy some everlasting rations/everful mug and go looking for the Ancient Temple of Abu-Ima, only requirement is the DM allows it's existence in your game.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 30, 2014, 09:20:24 AM
Interesting... I didn't even know of the Touchstone feat (I've hardly looked at Sandstorm).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on January 30, 2014, 09:45:32 AM
Interesting... I didn't even know of the Touchstone feat (I've hardly looked at Sandstorm).

I think it takes a backseat to planar touchstone, probably because even if a DM homebrew's his world completely he tends not to homebrew the planes. Meaning when you say "Hey can I planeshift to the catalogues of enlightenment." the DM tends to go "wtf is that" reads the planar handbook and allows it. 
 
Most DM's homebrew their material planes, so when you say "so in your world where is X temple" they go... "effort, doesn't exist, next" or homebrew it in.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Bastian on January 31, 2014, 01:31:30 AM
Found something new in the good-old DMG:

Quote from: DMG pg 166, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Karasuthra Hunter’s Glen
Among the most famous game in the place are the white stags. These elusive creatures (treat as celestial chargers; see page 250 of the Monster Manual) live for the thrill of the chase and consider the hunt part of their life cycle. Even the most devoted defender of good can hunt a white stag, for the stag knows the consequences and is willing to be prey. But white stags don’t give themselves up. They take great glee in using their wiles and unparalleled knowledge of the forest to confound hunters from other planes. No creatures native to the Beastlands will attack a white stag. Instead, they turn on the hunters with unbridled ferocity.

The antlers of a white stag stretch wide enough that it’s possible to fashion a composite longbow out of them using the Craft (bow-making) skill (making checks against DC 30). Such a bow is considered of masterwork quality, and magical enhancements placed on the bow cost 10% less because the antlers have an affinity for magic.

A 10% discount on bow enhancements? I'll take it!
Excellent find. I'll add it to my handbook and add you to the acknowledgements section.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on January 31, 2014, 02:33:03 AM
Why's everyone talking about planar travel? This is Touchstone (http://dndtools.eu/feats/sandstorm--85/touchstone--2945/), not Planar Touchstone (http://dndtools.eu/feats/planar-handbook--79/planar-touchstone--2173/).

The recharge condition does require turn undead.

You can rent a camel, buy some everlasting rations/everful mug and go looking for the Ancient Temple of Abu-Ima, only requirement is the DM allows it's existence in your game.
Because in E6, planar travel is easier to get than teleportation thanks to Psion Nomad's Astral Caravan.  And faster than humping back to it if you're a few countries over. 
I just like the idea of going on a journey through the realms of spirit every time you want to raise someone. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on January 31, 2014, 06:08:35 AM
The Mystic Lash spell from PGtF is really quite nice. 1d6/3 levels electricity damage(max 4d6), 15ft reach, touch attacks, no Str to damage, but Cha instead, and finally, save against stun on each hit. Unfortunately, it's normally only accessible to clerics of Bane and costs a feat. Unless of course, you happen to be an archivist or chameleon...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 31, 2014, 11:46:25 AM
Recycling a previous mention (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=dbfk3sh6rjsedjeblakd666r37&topic=6595.msg216456#msg216456) of mine as a fun combo for an E6 game. Take Aberration Wild Shape as your 6th level Feat and Assume Supernatural Ability as your first E6 Bonus.

Infinite healing out of combat (works on undead!) and at the start of each Encounter you can fire a 13d6+ ray of Fire/Untyped energy (dc 20 reflex halves). Plus you know, double Standard Actions everywhere in between. Because Druids are awesome.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 31, 2014, 12:16:18 PM
The Mystic Lash spell from PGtF is really quite nice. 1d6/3 levels electricity damage(max 4d6), 15ft reach, touch attacks, no Str to damage, but Cha instead, and finally, save against stun on each hit. Unfortunately, it's normally only accessible to clerics of Bane and costs a feat. Unless of course, you happen to be an archivist or chameleon...
The Psychic Whip (http://www.psionics.info/powers/psychic-whip/) power is similar, but doesn't do as much damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 31, 2014, 12:22:27 PM
hmm...

does Ritual of Association grant you actual weapon proficiency with those racial weapons?
or is more for magic items that have a racial requirement

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on January 31, 2014, 12:36:04 PM
The Mystic Lash spell from PGtF is really quite nice. 1d6/3 levels electricity damage(max 4d6), 15ft reach, touch attacks, no Str to damage, but Cha instead, and finally, save against stun on each hit. Unfortunately, it's normally only accessible to clerics of Bane and costs a feat. Unless of course, you happen to be an archivist or chameleon...
The Psychic Whip (http://www.psionics.info/powers/psychic-whip/) power is similar, but doesn't do as much damage.

He forgot to mention that after you attack someone with the whip, you can release it, and it will continue to auto-attack them!  Makes the Mystic Lash even more crazy-awesome!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on January 31, 2014, 08:46:00 PM
hmm...

does Ritual of Association grant you actual weapon proficiency with those racial weapons?
or is more for magic items that have a racial requirement

(click to show/hide)
Magic items.  The nonmagical ones you can already use with a -4 nonproficiency penalty and the subtype itself has no correlation to nonmagic weapons.  A racial ability provides that, and only to some of the members of the subtype.

The only thing after the first line that isn't a clarification of what gaining a subtype means is the bracketed +5 Disguise DC change.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 31, 2014, 09:45:43 PM
The Mystic Lash spell from PGtF is really quite nice. 1d6/3 levels electricity damage(max 4d6), 15ft reach, touch attacks, no Str to damage, but Cha instead, and finally, save against stun on each hit. Unfortunately, it's normally only accessible to clerics of Bane and costs a feat. Unless of course, you happen to be an archivist or chameleon...
The Psychic Whip (http://www.psionics.info/powers/psychic-whip/) power is similar, but doesn't do as much damage.

He forgot to mention that after you attack someone with the whip, you can release it, and it will continue to auto-attack them!  Makes the Mystic Lash even more crazy-awesome!

I pimp this spell from time to time. If you combine it with the Maiden of Pain (Loviatar), it synergizes pretty awesome with their deliver spells through whip ability. The spell is also accessible to her clerics. Being coked out on Agony, +cha, is a nice bonus to the whole cha/turning/dmm path as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TiaC on February 01, 2014, 02:14:11 AM
I came across it with a DMM persist Chameleon with reserves of strength. CL 30 buffs at ECL 15. Add a rod of maximize and two-handed power attack with divine power for 100+ damage on each hit. Then, BoTT it for another save vs. stun on each hit. I decided the build had gone too far when I realized that I could kill a Gold Great Wurm in one round 80%+ of the time and stun it another 13% at ECL 16.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 01, 2014, 01:01:32 PM
Bane-Juice (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030909a).

Not exactly optimal, but 2,100gp for a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Str & +6d6 Temp HP is 1/17th the cost of a standard +6 item and it's a consumable so it shouldn't be held against you by the next level. Pet owners might want to carry a couple of doses, as well as anyone wanting to be a Thor style Dark Elf.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 01, 2014, 03:07:01 PM
Sweeeet.   
I thought everyone in d&d roleplaying being a total Drunk, used Neutralize Poison a lot, anyway.
Not thinking of any Psi builds that could use that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 04, 2014, 01:18:20 PM
At least two deities have the spiked chain as their favored weapon: Zoser from Sandstorm (thus it works with the normal D&D deities) and Kossuth from Forgotten Realms/Faerun.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phyxion on February 04, 2014, 04:46:33 PM
In PF, the Arcane Trickster's capstone allows you to add your sneak attack damage to any spell that deals HP damage, so long as the targets are flat-footed to you. Stone Call is a level 2 spell with medium range, that does 2d6 bludgeoning to everything in a 40' radius, with no SR (conjuration!) and no save. Depending on how your DM reads the ability, you may need Sniper Goggles to apply SA at range over 30ft. It also works with Bludgeoner, if you want to deal nonlethal.

Unfortunately, it specifically calls out that the targets have to be flat-footed, so it's only really good as an opener (Snap Shot talent and Surprise Attacks talent, etc). Being invisible means those who can't see you lose their dex bonus to AC, and being flat-footed also means they lose their dex bonus to AC, but as far as I can tell being invisible doesn't actually make them flat-footed.

Still, medium range, 40' radius sneak attack (and potentially Str/Dex damage or bleed) is pretty nice for a 2nd level spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 04, 2014, 09:11:59 PM
I think PF material should probably go here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12131.0), but maybe someone should start a thread specifically for it?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 04, 2014, 09:13:41 PM
I wouldn't call PF 2nd party material since it is its own system after all.

Though it would be interesting to see what fun combos pop up and how they decide to nerf them into the ground when it comes to martial characters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on February 04, 2014, 11:37:59 PM
I would agree on the idea of giving Pathfinder its own thread. The sheer amount of volume involving its own content is a good justification as well as it being its own system. My only concern is that if Pathfinder got its own thread then then a 2nd or 3rd party Pathfinder fun finds thread would follow, and that's just a good chunk of fun finds threads.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 05, 2014, 12:12:17 AM
And at that point it might as well get its own subforum perhaps?  lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 05, 2014, 11:20:01 AM
Here's more of a "the artist didn't get the memo" one:

On page 67 of Races of Destiny, Gibber Cabals of Illumians are described, who build torturous mazes to protect their enclaves.

The attendant map of one of those labyrinths is one of the most weaksauce "labyrinths" I've ever seen. Seriously, any "maze" where a 3 year old could solve it is just lazy.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 05, 2014, 03:12:33 PM
Fun thought:  Get the ability to assume the form of a hydra.  Proceed to take levels in kensai to imbue as many weapons as needed with the Mouthpick enhancement from Lords of Madness.  Better make sure to dodge the inevitably thrown book directed towards your head.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 05, 2014, 03:57:40 PM
And to that I only have to say; "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on February 05, 2014, 05:11:49 PM
And to that I only have to say; "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons"
Away from book. Mouthpick lets you make iterative attacks with a bite, right? ...can you multi-weapon fighting eight mouthpicks for a shitload of attacks?

And you do lose the bite attack, right?

stupid fucking Savage Species
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 05, 2014, 05:14:17 PM
Hey.   :)
Where have you been?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 05, 2014, 05:57:47 PM
And to that I only have to say; "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons"
Away from book. Mouthpick lets you make iterative attacks with a bite, right? ...can you multi-weapon fighting eight mouthpicks for a shitload of attacks?

And you do lose the bite attack, right?

stupid fucking Savage Species

Mouthpick allows iterative attacks with the weapon being held in the mouth, and the creature can't use the bite attack while wielding the weapon.

If going very strictly by the rules, MWF technically wouldn't apply because its requires "Three or more hands" since the designers definitely didn't expect creatures being able to use weapons any other way.  Some allowance was made to allow things like Prehensile Tail (http://dndtools.eu/feats/serpent-kingdoms--24/prehensile-tail--2238/) to work with the feat, but there are other cases like the mouthpick weapon ability where it really should have been noted.

By the way, Mouthpick isn't Savage Species.  You can blame Lords of Madness for it.  The Amulet of Natural Weapons is totally Savage Species though.

As far as the Amulet itself being a possibility goes, I don't think it would actually work in this case, at least as far as wielding actual weapons goes.  In this case it would turn the bite itself into a mouthpick weapon, which is pretty meaningless unless the wording's interpretation is twisted around to allow the creature to make iterative attacks with the bite.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 05, 2014, 06:05:59 PM
Whoa hold up people. Mouthpick doesn't bestow some super ultra attack ability. It allows you to hold a weapon using your mouth instead of a hand and grants proficiency. You're reading into things a little too far (and incorrectly).

A "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons" means a Monk's Unarmed Strike is perfectly formed to fit in a Beholder's mouth, and the Beholder has Weapon Proficiency(monk). Both of these are hilarious oddities, nothing more.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 05, 2014, 06:11:49 PM
That's far enough out there that you shouldn't have expected anyone to get it based on just "Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 05, 2014, 07:30:27 PM

A "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons" means a Monk's Unarmed Strike is perfectly formed to fit in a Beholder's mouth, and the Beholder has Weapon Proficiency(monk). Both of these are hilarious oddities, nothing more.

Uhh, how is this a problem for an aberration originating from The Far Realms Of Insanity ?
 :twitch
Fluff it with Charm Monster eye, some Wonder Twins teamwork, and the Ambiguious SNL superheroes.
It's kinda like Dwarf Tossing without the "tossing" part.
(I'm not saying there's functional raw game rules available, or not quite)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on February 05, 2014, 07:52:08 PM
Whoa hold up people. Mouthpick doesn't bestow some super ultra attack ability. It allows you to hold a weapon using your mouth instead of a hand and grants proficiency. You're reading into things a little too far (and incorrectly).
ok good im glad that doesn't work because it's insane. i clearly don't remember mouthpick well.

eh, i'm around, just not playing (or posting) much anymore. moved and I don't have a group.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 05, 2014, 08:01:30 PM
That's far enough out there that you shouldn't have expected anyone to get it based on just "Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons."
I suppose not.

Reminder for everyone.
1. Natural Weapons do not gain iterative attacks.
2. Creatures, not weapons, gain iterative attacks and can use Manufactured/Unarmed Weapons to deliver them.
3. During a Full-Attack you can make your iterative attacks & follow up with your Natural Weapons, however you cannot use the limb that delivered the iterative attacks and they are all treated as Secondary Natural Weapons.
Example, Kobold Fighter 6 has two Primary Claws, a Secondary Bite, and is holding a Longsword. He can attack twice with a Longsword, once with a Bite, and once with a Claw. The Claw is treated as Secondary so it's made at a -5 penalty and he only applies 1/2 his Str Bonus rather than the normal Attack/Damage bonuses associated with his Claw.

A 12 Headed-Hydra with a Mouthpick Longsword makes 3 attacks using his Longsword and eleven Bite Attacks. However, those Bites now have -5 to Attack and deal 2d8+3. It's a net loss really. You'd need something like Kaorti Resin, Greater Magic Weapon, and per intent Multi-Weapon Fighting to get a decent return out of it. It's cheaper just to slice some heads off so it has 24 Bite Attacks imho.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 06, 2014, 02:30:17 AM
Trident of Serenity (Races of FR) suppresses rage-like abilities w/in 15ft. It doesn't mention that it must be held/wielded to be active. Couldn't you just have Armor Spikes of Serenity?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 06, 2014, 11:39:49 AM
Trident of Serenity (Races of FR) suppresses rage-like abilities w/in 15ft. It doesn't mention that it must be held/wielded to be active. Couldn't you just have Armor Spikes of Serenity?
Yes, but only if you don't want to use Rage :p

Quote from: My little quip on it under Barbarian
Trident of Serenity (FR:RoF): blocks rage, and frenzy. Give it to a party member you don't want to kill.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on February 06, 2014, 11:50:19 AM
Great, I now have an image of a Hydra with a Vorpal Mouthpick longsword "buffing" itself up for a big fight stuck in my head.  Snicker Snack, it gets two heads back.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Unbeliever on February 06, 2014, 11:59:18 AM
fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 06, 2014, 12:43:05 PM
fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

Regular rapidstrike only grants a single extra attack, as noted with the words "you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a —5 penalty."  Improved Rapidstrike only allows iteratives with one, not all attacks, as noted with the wording "you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a —5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional —5, but never more than four extra attacks."

Let's compare:  Rapidstrike has a BAB req of +10, so we'll go with a 10-headed hydra.  With Rapidstrike it gets 10 bites at +10, and another at +5 for a total of 11 attacks.  Give that same hydra mouthpick weapons and its routine is 10x +10 / 10x +5 for a total of 20 attacks.  Bump it up one head for another BAB and the rapidstrike hydra has 12 attacks versus the Mouthpick hydra who just got extra iteratives and now has 30 attacks.

It's a comparison of taking one feat for one extra attack (or two feats for up to 4 extra) instead of taking a specific class and then spending a bunch of XP to enchant weapons to get scaling multiples of attacks.  In the long run I'd say the mouthpick option ends up being more efficient given how its gains are at least an order of magnitude greater without spending an order of magnitude more on creating the character overall.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 06, 2014, 01:59:22 PM
Trident of Serenity (Races of FR) suppresses rage-like abilities w/in 15ft. It doesn't mention that it must be held/wielded to be active. Couldn't you just have Armor Spikes of Serenity?
Interesting.  I was planning to place a Marilith up against my 18th level party soon.  One of her weapons will now be this Trident (blame it on the cover art for FC1 - she has four swords, an axe, and something like a two-pronged spear or trident).

Would be a nice, cheap thing for a party with a Frenzied Berserker to have kept in a handy haversack.  Pull it out as a move action once the bad guys are nearly dead, so he doesn't start slaughtering the party.  Not a perfect solution, but not a terrible one, either.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Chemus on February 06, 2014, 02:14:53 PM
weapon using creatures have a primary "hand" with which they get iterative attacks. They have the same attack penalties that two handed creatures have when using two weapons, mitigated by multi weapon fighting, and perhaps multi dexterity. The only improved/greater MWF I find are in Deities & Demigods, and appear to be for deities only.

So, it appears that Soro's contention that you should just use a single mouth pick weapon, or even just cut off the heads to double attacks, is correct.

Edit: whoops, there I go again, shooting off my mouth. Ettin, for one, get iteratives for each head/hand combo. There may be rules in place that do the same for hydrae. If so, then Jack's argument is the correct one. Because of the hydra's heads.

(I think that, generally, we need to use more words for clarity; that way we know what we're arguing exactly)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 06, 2014, 02:27:07 PM
Improved MWF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting) and Greater MWF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) are also found in the Epic Level Handbook (and SRD) and are specifically listed as non-epic feats that anything can take if it meets the prereqs.

Yes, there's the Dex requirements, but items and/or buffs can sort that out.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Unbeliever on February 06, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

Regular rapidstrike only grants a single extra attack, as noted with the words "you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a —5 penalty."  Improved Rapidstrike only allows iteratives with one, not all attacks, as noted with the wording "you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a —5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional —5, but never more than four extra attacks."

Let's compare:  Rapidstrike has a BAB req of +10, so we'll go with a 10-headed hydra.  With Rapidstrike it gets 10 bites at +10, and another at +5 for a total of 11 attacks.  Give that same hydra mouthpick weapons and its routine is 10x +10 / 10x +5 for a total of 20 attacks.  Bump it up one head for another BAB and the rapidstrike hydra has 12 attacks versus the Mouthpick hydra who just got extra iteratives and now has 30 attacks.

It's a comparison of taking one feat for one extra attack (or two feats for up to 4 extra) instead of taking a specific class and then spending a bunch of XP to enchant weapons to get scaling multiples of attacks.  In the long run I'd say the mouthpick option ends up being more efficient given how its gains are at least an order of magnitude greater without spending an order of magnitude more on creating the character overall.
Ah crap, I was totally misunderstanding Rapidstrike.  Which is good to know.  For some reason I thought it was an extra attack with each of your natural weapons (i.e., Claw/Claw becomes Claw/Claw/Claw-5/Claw-5), but I was totally wrong.  Maybe I was getting it mixed up with multiweapon fighting or something. 

Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 07, 2014, 01:28:05 AM
Legacy Champion + variant Uncanny Trickster = infinite feats

x 7/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 7

when you gain your 8th level of Legacy Champion, choose to advance Uncanny Trickster, which you then advance Legacy Champion, etc.

---

What happens to a creature inside a Wicker Man when Incarnate Construct is cast on the construct?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 07, 2014, 09:53:51 AM
fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

Regular rapidstrike only grants a single extra attack, as noted with the words "you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a —5 penalty."  Improved Rapidstrike only allows iteratives with one, not all attacks, as noted with the wording "you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a —5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional —5, but never more than four extra attacks."

Let's compare:  Rapidstrike has a BAB req of +10, so we'll go with a 10-headed hydra.  With Rapidstrike it gets 10 bites at +10, and another at +5 for a total of 11 attacks.  Give that same hydra mouthpick weapons and its routine is 10x +10 / 10x +5 for a total of 20 attacks.  Bump it up one head for another BAB and the rapidstrike hydra has 12 attacks versus the Mouthpick hydra who just got extra iteratives and now has 30 attacks.

It's a comparison of taking one feat for one extra attack (or two feats for up to 4 extra) instead of taking a specific class and then spending a bunch of XP to enchant weapons to get scaling multiples of attacks.  In the long run I'd say the mouthpick option ends up being more efficient given how its gains are at least an order of magnitude greater without spending an order of magnitude more on creating the character overall.
Ah crap, I was totally misunderstanding Rapidstrike.  Which is good to know.  For some reason I thought it was an extra attack with each of your natural weapons (i.e., Claw/Claw becomes Claw/Claw/Claw-5/Claw-5), but I was totally wrong.  Maybe I was getting it mixed up with multiweapon fighting or something. 

Thanks for the correction.
I've seen this exact (incorrect) interpretation thrown around on the boards for quite some time now. So it's not just you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on February 07, 2014, 11:50:26 AM
Legacy Champion + variant Uncanny Trickster = infinite feats

x 7/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 7

when you gain your 8th level of Legacy Champion, choose to advance Uncanny Trickster, which you then advance Legacy Champion, etc.

You'd have to select Uncanny Trickster from LC 2 in order to do that. It may work pre-Epic because of that, but it may get books thrown at you no matter what.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 07, 2014, 03:36:36 PM
What?
How does this work, like a for-dummies version?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 07, 2014, 03:40:08 PM
Uncanny Trickster has a variant where instead of granting skill tricks it grants feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 07, 2014, 03:52:48 PM
Got it ... so ... why LC level 8 bonus feat, instead of the level 4 one?


(I'm guessing that dndtools doesn't have some of the language/text.)
Title: Inception
Post by: FlaminCows on February 07, 2014, 10:51:00 PM
(I'm guessing that dndtools doesn't have some of the language/text.)

Quote from: Complete Scoundrel page 67
Class Features: At each level after 1st, you gain class features (including spellcasting ability) and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in a class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain the benefit of your previous class’s Hit Dice, attack progression, skill points, or saving throws. If you had more than one class before becoming an uncanny trickster, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining class features.
Bonus Trick (Ex): At each level, you gain a bonus skill trick for which you meet the prerequisite. These bonus tricks do not cost skill points and do not count against your maximum number of skill tricks available.
Quote from: Complete Scoundrel page 70
Adaptation
The uncanny trickster is already a very generalized prestige class that can easily fit into any campaign setting. It does rely on the new rules for skill tricks, however, so it is not suitable for a campaign that does not incorporate them. Replacing bonus tricks with extra feats that enhance movement and defense can repurpose the character as a sneaky combatant with a more generalized approach to skills.
Quote from: Weapons of Legacy page 19
Class Features: At each level except 1st and 7th, you gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in a class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. The specific class features you gain include spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), improved chance of turning or destroying undead, metamagic or item creation feats, bonus feats, monk special abilities, sneak attack progressions, and so on, depending on the class. You do not, however, gain the benefit of your previous class’s Hit Dice, attack progression, skill points, or saving throws. If you had more than one class before becoming a legacy champion, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining class abilities.

So it should go like this:
Level 10
Uncanny Trickster 1: extra feat, favourite trick
Level 11
Legacy Champion 1: Reduced ritual cost (lesser), bond of lore
Level 12
Legacy Champion 2: Replace legacy ability (least) +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
 — Uncanny Trickster 2: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
   — Legacy Champion 3: Extra legacy ability use (least) +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
     — Uncanny Trickster 3: extra feat, favourite trick, tricky defense, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
       — Legacy Champion 4: Bonus legacy feat, +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
         — Uncanny Trickster 4: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
           — Legacy Champion 5: Replace legacy ability (lesser), +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
             — Uncanny Trickster 5: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
               — Legacy Champion 6: Extra legacy ability use (lesser), +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
                 — Uncanny Trickster 6: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
                   — Legacy Champion 7: Reduced ritual cost (greater)
Level 13
Legacy Champion 8: Bonus legacy feat, +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
 — Uncanny Trickster 7: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
   — Legacy Champion 9: Extra legacy ability use (greater), +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
     — Uncanny Trickster 8: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
       — Legacy Champion 10: Replace legacy ability (greater), +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
         — Uncanny Trickster 9: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features
             — Legacy Champion 11 to infinity: +1 level of Uncanny Trickster class features
             — Uncanny Trickster 10 to infinity: extra feat, favourite trick, +1 level of Legacy Champion class features

The result: the character now knows every feat related to movement and defence, and all her skill tricks can be used at least twice per encounter.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Leviathan on February 07, 2014, 11:06:05 PM
Maybe it's just me, but Uncanny Trickster only has 3 levels. Doesn't that mean you can only get 3 levels of class features out of it? Since it is neither a base class nor a prestige class with at least 10 levels, it doesn't have an epic progression.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 08, 2014, 01:01:21 AM
You can get virtual levels for the purposes of class features in various ways, as long it has the proper verbage in the feature (every level vs. at X level)

ex. Ubermount takes this to the extreme.


While answering that question, I just noticed that a Sha'ir 4 can enter Mystic Theurge to advance at x2 speed for spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 08, 2014, 02:59:32 PM
Wow niice.

Here I was, using a cupcake version of that combo
trying to make Divine Mind and Lurk do anything at all.
And getting a PLZ no-no hammer anyways (wink).


So while a loop, it wouldn't go all that far, before it
ran out of Skill Tricks, and the specific bonus feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on February 09, 2014, 12:20:09 AM
So, Fiendish Grafts are even cheaper than we thought.  According to the Fiend Folio:
Quote from: Fiend Folio, page 209
Even when a character gains a fiendish graft as a prestige class benefit, however, a fiendish entity typically bestows the graft at the climax of a dark ritual.  Characters without such specific prestige classes can perform similar rituals in order to gain the benefits of a fiendish graft.  Such a ritual requires 10 rounds and deals 1d4 points of damage to the character per round.
Emphasis mine, but that is the entire paragraph.

Got at least 40 HP and a minute of time?  Get yourself a fiendish graft today!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on February 09, 2014, 02:19:48 AM
So, Fiendish Grafts are even cheaper than we thought.  According to the Fiend Folio:
Quote from: Fiend Folio, page 209
Even when a character gains a fiendish graft as a prestige class benefit, however, a fiendish entity typically bestows the graft at the climax of a dark ritual.  Characters without such specific prestige classes can perform similar rituals in order to gain the benefits of a fiendish graft.  Such a ritual requires 10 rounds and deals 1d4 points of damage to the character per round.
Emphasis mine, but that is the entire paragraph.

Got at least 40 HP and a minute of time?  Get yourself a fiendish graft today!

All you had to do in the first place was bind a Sibriex, but yeah. This is somewhat cheaper than an 8th level spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on February 09, 2014, 09:47:44 AM
So, Fiendish Grafts are even cheaper than we thought.  According to the Fiend Folio:
Quote from: Fiend Folio, page 209
Even when a character gains a fiendish graft as a prestige class benefit, however, a fiendish entity typically bestows the graft at the climax of a dark ritual.  Characters without such specific prestige classes can perform similar rituals in order to gain the benefits of a fiendish graft.  Such a ritual requires 10 rounds and deals 1d4 points of damage to the character per round.
Emphasis mine, but that is the entire paragraph.

Got at least 40 HP and a minute of time?  Get yourself a fiendish graft today!

All you had to do in the first place was bind a Sibriex, but yeah. This is somewhat cheaper than an 8th level spell.
Plus, you don't need to be friends with/know a level 15+ caster.  Anyone can do it, provided they can survive 10d4 damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on February 09, 2014, 11:15:46 AM
And if you have someone cast vigor on you (3rd level spell iirc), the fast healing 2 that it gives for at least 15 rounds on average negates all the 10d4 damage in just over half again the time it takes for the damage to be dealt.
Average damage/round, 2.5. Fast healing 2 makes the net there .5 damage/round.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 09, 2014, 11:33:31 AM
And if you have someone cast vigor on you (3rd level spell iirc), the fast healing 2 that it gives for at least 15 rounds on average negates all the 10d4 damage in just over half again the time it takes for the damage to be dealt.
Average damage/round, 2.5. Fast healing 2 makes the net there .5 damage/round.
Vigor is 1st level, and heals 11 points per casting. Makes a great bandaid wand.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on February 09, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
Vigor is 1st level, and heals 11 points per casting. Makes a great bandaid wand.
That's lesser vigor. Still good, but doesn't negate as much of the ritual damage as it occurs.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Omen of Peace on February 11, 2014, 09:45:50 AM
The Dreaming Blindfold (MIC):
"If you are also wearing a psicrown (EPH169), you can target the recipient of the dream or nightmare with a single psionic power generated by the psicrown as if you were adjacent to that creature. However, the power costs twice the normal number of power points and renders the dreaming blindfold inert for seven days."

It seems like a nice way to assassinate someone from afar. You probably can't use powers that require you to touch the creature, which makes me sad because I'd have liked to be able to teleport the target as well (sleeping implies willing).
But note that technically it works even if the target is protected against mind-affecting effects, and doesn't sleep: you just need to target it with Dream (which might fail immediately).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 11, 2014, 11:07:55 AM
The Dreaming Blindfold (MIC):
"If you are also wearing a psicrown (EPH169), you can target the recipient of the dream or nightmare with a single psionic power generated by the psicrown as if you were adjacent to that creature. However, the power costs twice the normal number of power points and renders the dreaming blindfold inert for seven days."

It seems like a nice way to assassinate someone from afar. You probably can't use powers that require you to touch the creature, which makes me sad because I'd have liked to be able to teleport the target as well (sleeping implies willing).
But note that technically it works even if the target is protected against mind-affecting effects, and doesn't sleep: you just need to target it with Dream (which might fail immediately).
You can do the same thing via the Remote Viewing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/remoteViewing.htm) power. They do need to fail the initial save for Remote Viewing, but since you have a virtual presence there (and can even be attacked), I'd think you could use touch spells (or just about anything).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on February 11, 2014, 11:24:28 AM
Helm of Brilliance, right from the DMG, has one particularly interesting function:

Quote from: SRD, helm of Brilliance
The helm may be used once per round, but each gem can perform its spell-like power just once. Until all its jewels are depleted, a helm of brilliance also has the following magical properties when activated.

    It emanates a bluish light when undead are within 30 feet. This light causes 1d6 points of damage per round to all such creatures within that range.
    The wearer may command any weapon he wields to become a flaming weapon. This is in addition to whatever abilities the weapon may already have (unless the weapon already is a flaming weapon). The command takes 1 round to take effect.
    The helm provides resistance to fire 30. This protection does not stack with similar protection from other sources.
No duration is listed on that ability, just that it comes into effect 1 round after you issue the command.  I believe it defaults to permanent or instantaneous when no duration is listed?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on February 12, 2014, 08:27:15 AM
Is there an updated version of Knock-down (http://dndtools.eu/feats/deities-and-demigods--39/knock-down--1725/)? I'm asking because I don't see it talked about often but I think its good as fuck.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on February 12, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
Is there an updated version of Knock-down (http://dndtools.eu/feats/deities-and-demigods--39/knock-down--1725/)? I'm asking because I don't see it talked about often but I think its good as fuck.

The SRD has it, which means that's the updated version (not that there's a difference). And it does get mentioned a lot in Tripper builds.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on February 12, 2014, 09:03:10 AM
IIRC there was a ruling that Knock-down doesn't trigger the bonus attack from Improved Trip.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on February 12, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
Sword & Fist errata

p. 7, Knockdown
Insert to end of Benefit:

Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and
successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave
feats.
Insert may into “you may make a trip attack as a free action.”
After “whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee” insert: with a
single attack


It's a little screwed up...

Sword & Fist (Jan 2001) was printed first, and errata'd (10/18/2002). This errata'd version is certainly available to a PC where 3.0 material is allowed.


Deities & Demigods (April 2002) (and SRD) re-prints the same feat, prior to errata, under the subsection that states these are for deities only. There is no Deities & Demigods specific errata pdf that I'm aware of.

In addition to the feats in the Player’s Handbook, deities can also
obtain the feats described here, all of which were originally pub-
lished in other D&D game products. Because these feats (as well as
those in the Player’s Handbook) were originally designed for use by
player characters, many of them have prerequisites that any deity
automatically meets, such as a base attack bonus of +2 for Hold the
Line. Nevertheless, those prerequisites are retained in these feat
descriptions so that the descriptions will be consistent with the
way they were originally published.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 12, 2014, 11:13:49 AM
under the subsection that states these are for deities only. There is no Deities & Demigods specific errata pdf that I'm aware of.

In addition to the feats in the Player’s Handbook, deities can also
obtain the feats described here, all of which were originally pub-
lished in other D&D game products. Because these feats (as well as
those in the Player’s Handbook) were originally designed for use by
player characters, many of them have prerequisites that any deity
automatically meets, such as a base attack bonus of +2 for Hold the
Line. Nevertheless, those prerequisites are retained in these feat
descriptions so that the descriptions will be consistent with the
way they were originally published.
I don't see anything in the quoted text saying these are for deities only. Is it stated somewhere else, in a section other than the quoted one?

It's unfortunate that they didn't include the errata, as it came later than the D&DG reprint, and therefore should be the most recent version.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on February 12, 2014, 12:29:49 PM
under the subsection that states these are for deities only. There is no Deities & Demigods specific errata pdf that I'm aware of.

In addition to the feats in the Player’s Handbook, deities can also
obtain the feats described here, all of which were originally pub-
lished in other D&D game products. Because these feats (as well as
those in the Player’s Handbook) were originally designed for use by
player characters, many of them have prerequisites that any deity
automatically meets, such as a base attack bonus of +2 for Hold the
Line. Nevertheless, those prerequisites are retained in these feat
descriptions so that the descriptions will be consistent with the
way they were originally published.
I don't see anything in the quoted text saying these are for deities only. Is it stated somewhere else, in a section other than the quoted one?

It's unfortunate that they didn't include the errata, as it came later than the D&DG reprint, and therefore should be the most recent version.

The quoted section even states that the feats were designed for player characters!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on February 12, 2014, 03:36:30 PM
Sword & Fist errata

p. 7, Knockdown
Insert to end of Benefit:

Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and
successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave
feats.
Insert may into “you may make a trip attack as a free action.”
After “whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee” insert: with a
single attack


It's a little screwed up...

Sword & Fist (Jan 2001) was printed first, and errata'd (10/18/2002). This errata'd version is certainly available to a PC where 3.0 material is allowed.
Does the SRD version override this errata? What is the publication date of the SRD?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 12, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
The Dreaming Blindfold (MIC):
"If you are also wearing a psicrown (EPH169), you can target the recipient of the dream or nightmare with a single psionic power generated by the psicrown as if you were adjacent to that creature. However, the power costs twice the normal number of power points and renders the dreaming blindfold inert for seven days."

It seems like a nice way to assassinate someone from afar. You probably can't use powers that require you to touch the creature, which makes me sad because I'd have liked to be able to teleport the target as well (sleeping implies willing).
But note that technically it works even if the target is protected against mind-affecting effects, and doesn't sleep: you just need to target it with Dream (which might fail immediately).
You can do the same thing via the Remote Viewing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/remoteViewing.htm) power. They do need to fail the initial save for Remote Viewing, but since you have a virtual presence there (and can even be attacked), I'd think you could use touch spells (or just about anything).

Lurk with Tracker, likes this very much.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 12, 2014, 03:56:52 PM
Knock-Back ... post 3.5e Core.


Heck they'd be consistent on this anyways.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on February 12, 2014, 04:19:06 PM
SRD is 2004
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

Divine Abilities and Feats

FEATS
Deities can obtain the feats described here, in addition to any standard feats.

My interpretation:
Deities can take the 'unerrata'/OP version
Players are left with the errata'd sword and fist version
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on February 12, 2014, 04:49:03 PM
SRD is 2004
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

Divine Abilities and Feats

FEATS
Deities can obtain the feats described here, in addition to any standard feats.

My interpretation:
Deities can take the 'unerrata'/OP version
Players are left with the errata'd sword and fist version
Clearly those aren't Deity only feats because Persist Spell, along with lots of other bullshit, is there.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on February 12, 2014, 05:09:58 PM
What's odd is that Knock-Down wasn't updated, but the SRD version of Divine Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineMight) is the crappy up to date version that is in Complete Warrior.  If you look at the original version in the actual book, it is far better.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 12, 2014, 07:22:23 PM
Is there an updated version of Knock-down (http://dndtools.eu/feats/deities-and-demigods--39/knock-down--1725/)? I'm asking because I don't see it talked about often but I think its good as fuck.
Often? I see it every time a Trip build is mentioned.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on February 12, 2014, 07:31:05 PM
No, it's ECL +2, which, since it includes 2 RHD, is equivalent to LA +0. That's how it was written in 3.0. Races didn't differentiate between RHD and LA, they just gave it to you as one lump sum. I remember seeing some races somewhere that even had ECL modifiers less than their total RHD, which would mean a negative LA in 3.5 terms.

Personally I always thought the differences between LA and RHD never did make sense.  Like one that takes half dragon with LA +3 but no RHD.  Yeah they have all these nifty abilities, but oh no, you sneeze in their direction and they're dead.  Starting ECL of 4th, but as a lvl 1 character, means you've pathetic HD.  I've always ruled it as being whatever the LA is, that's how many RHD they get, otherwise, the entire LA/RHD system is broken in a bad way, not a good way.

I like this idea. How does it work normally? (My group has a running ban on anything with RHD since nobody understood them)

Normally, both RHD and LA count towards your character level when determining your ECL (and thus how much xp you earn and how much it takes to level up). However, RHD are like actual character levels in a class with no class features (you get HP, skills, BAB, and saves according to your creature type, and they count towards feats, skill rank maximums, not dying to Cloudkill, etc.). If you only have 1 RHD at character creation, you can even trade it in for a full-fledged class level. However, if you have more than that (2+ RHD), you're stuck with them, and they come first before any class levels so your low level feats can't use your class features for prerequisites (since you won't have them yet), and it's your RHD's skill points that are multiplied by 4 at 1st level, not your first class's skill points. Some things with enough RHD can get you high enough level to meet the prerequisites for some PrCs, letting you skip taking base classes entirely.

LA is just a blank, where you get nothing (no HP, skills, BAB, saves, feats, max ranks, etc.). On the other hand, you can buy off your LA if you use the rules in Unearthed Arcana, which involves spending extra experience points at certain levels (the exact nature of which I kinda understand, sort of, but not well enough to explain).

Neither LA nor RHD count against you for multiclass penalties if you use them. You could have, say, 10 RHD, +5 LA, and 1 level each of Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard (not that you should ever do this), and you'll still get your full experience, albeit only the experience that a level 18 character would earn.

Ok, so we WERE doing it right, it just sucked that hard.
Sorry to pimp but this isn't the first time others have come to the same conclusion as me. It sounds like someone was edging towards the PBMC balanced ECL variant. I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that half the designers thought those RHD were free anyway...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 12, 2014, 10:32:06 PM
Going back to the Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion talk...  Apply one to Abjurant Champion, and the other to the one applied to AC.  Proceed to laugh at how huge the bonuses from Abjurant Armor get on the right spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Raineh Daze on February 12, 2014, 10:35:53 PM
Going back to the Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion talk...  Apply one to Abjurant Champion, and the other to the one applied to AC.  Proceed to laugh at how huge the bonuses from Abjurant Armor get on the right spells.

Congratulations! 1/20 of the time you get hit by a sword, no effect on touch AC. :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 12, 2014, 10:37:39 PM
Going back to the Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion talk...  Apply one to Abjurant Champion, and the other to the one applied to AC.  Proceed to laugh at how huge the bonuses from Abjurant Armor get on the right spells.

Congratulations! 1/20 of the time you get hit by a sword, no effect on touch AC. :p

Yup, pretty much!

Now if only there was a PrC that boosted the AC gains from spells that grant Deflection bonuses.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Raineh Daze on February 12, 2014, 10:40:49 PM
Going back to the Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion talk...  Apply one to Abjurant Champion, and the other to the one applied to AC.  Proceed to laugh at how huge the bonuses from Abjurant Armor get on the right spells.

Congratulations! 1/20 of the time you get hit by a sword, no effect on touch AC. :p

Yup, pretty much!

Now if only there was a PrC that boosted the AC gains from spells that grant Deflection bonuses.

Now, that would be handy, especially if it synergises with saves out the wazoo somehow (Divine Grace comes to  mind).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 12, 2014, 11:15:57 PM
There are actually quite a few spells that grant deflection bonuses (tonight I stopped at 21, which was in the H part of the list).  Looks like a PrC based on that would have to have something a bit more specific than just "any spell that grants a deflection bonus."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 13, 2014, 07:53:24 AM
Fun Find: Yurians from Fiend Folio have 3 racial HD and a +4 LA, and are overall kinda crappy.

No, what's important about them is the "Yurian characters" section of their write-up:

Quote
A yurian’s favored class is barbar-
ian. Yurian spellcasters are usually
adepts or druids. Their few clerics
revere ancestral spirits, and can
choose from the domains of Heal-
ing, Luck, Protection, and Water.
A yurian PC’s effective charac-
ter level (ECL) is equal to its class
level +4. Thus, a 1st-level yurian barbarian has
an ECL of 5 and is the equivalent of a 5th-
level character.

Looks like Plz was right, in at least one case...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 13, 2014, 10:20:36 AM
Fun Find: Yurians from Fiend Folio have 3 racial HD and a +4 LA, and are overall kinda crappy.

No, what's important about them is the "Yurian characters" section of their write-up:

Quote
A yurian’s favored class is barbar-
ian. Yurian spellcasters are usually
adepts or druids. Their few clerics
revere ancestral spirits, and can
choose from the domains of Heal-
ing, Luck, Protection, and Water.
A yurian PC’s effective charac-
ter level (ECL) is equal to its class
level +4. Thus, a 1st-level yurian barbarian has
an ECL of 5 and is the equivalent of a 5th-
level character.

Looks like Plz was right, in at least one case...

haha nice find... kind of :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on February 13, 2014, 11:33:51 AM
If you look at Crucians in Sandstorm, the "Crucians as Characters" entry completely lacks any mention of you having to take their 3 Humanoid HD.  So presumably you should only have to pay the +2 LA.  Still a bit overpriced, but not nearly as bad as ECL 5.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FBT on February 13, 2014, 02:05:33 PM
Fun Find: Yurians from Fiend Folio have 3 racial HD and a +4 LA, and are overall kinda crappy.

No, what's important about them is the "Yurian characters" section of their write-up:

Quote
A yurian’s favored class is barbar-
ian. Yurian spellcasters are usually
adepts or druids. Their few clerics
revere ancestral spirits, and can
choose from the domains of Heal-
ing, Luck, Protection, and Water.
A yurian PC’s effective charac-
ter level (ECL) is equal to its class
level +4. Thus, a 1st-level yurian barbarian has
an ECL of 5 and is the equivalent of a 5th-
level character.

Looks like Plz was right, in at least one case...

Remember that Fiend Folio is 3.0. Back then LA was handled very differently than it is in 3.5. (I wasn't playing seriously back then, so I don't remember the exact details, but IIRC it was something along the lines of having a LA number which included the RHD, as in this example.)

So it's safe to say it's an edition thing. Perhaps a misremembering along these lines is why Plz thought it worked this way? (In other words, he was right, just remembering the wrong edition.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 13, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
3.0 doesn't have LA, though; Fiend Folio was one of the weird "half-way" books.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 13, 2014, 02:41:30 PM
Fiend Folio has LA in it, so does Savage Species, both are 3.25 books

whereas, Manual of the Planes and Miniatures Handbook have LAs, and those are hardcore 3.0 books
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 13, 2014, 04:15:35 PM
 :D

(click to show/hide)

 :P :whistle ... pointing finger at my kitty avatar  :poke
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on February 13, 2014, 05:55:25 PM
Fiend Folio has LA in it, so does Savage Species, both are 3.25 books

whereas, Manual of the Planes and Miniatures Handbook have LAs, and those are hardcore 3.0 books

I can tell you for sure that the Miniatures Handbook is 3.5e.  It states right on the back cover that it is for use with the 3.5e core books.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on February 13, 2014, 08:25:42 PM
If you look at Crucians in Sandstorm, the "Crucians as Characters" entry completely lacks any mention of you having to take their 3 Humanoid HD.  So presumably you should only have to pay the +2 LA.  Still a bit overpriced, but not nearly as bad as ECL 5.

The fact that an entry contains no reminder of the general rule does not remove the general rule from applicability. Sorry, you still have to take the RHD as normal.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 13, 2014, 08:35:42 PM
If you look at Crucians in Sandstorm, the "Crucians as Characters" entry completely lacks any mention of you having to take their 3 Humanoid HD.  So presumably you should only have to pay the +2 LA.  Still a bit overpriced, but not nearly as bad as ECL 5.

The fact that an entry contains no reminder of the general rule does not remove the general rule from applicability. Sorry, you still have to take the RHD as normal.
perfectly legit for alter self...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 13, 2014, 10:16:00 PM
Fiend Folio has LA in it, so does Savage Species, both are 3.25 books

whereas, Manual of the Planes and Miniatures Handbook have LAs, and those are hardcore 3.0 books

I can tell you for sure that the Miniatures Handbook is 3.5e.  It states right on the back cover that it is for use with the 3.5e core books.

my mistake, I guess it feels so old that it should be 3.0 ;)

---
I might have mentioned it before, but a Living Spell + Blockade is kind of funny, a wooden gelatinous cube. Just keep plopping out wooden blocks everytime it hit something.

---
RAW, it appears, at least in the Book of Vile Darkness, that the Disciple and Thrall PrCs don't require to worship the actual archfiend
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on February 15, 2014, 10:19:07 AM
I may have finally found a legitimate method of enchanting an Incarnate Weapon soulmeld: Dragonshard Pommel Stones (FoW). While they can normally only be attached to MWK melee weapons, there's a little loophole in the text:

Quote
A dragonshard pommel stone can be attached to a weapon that already has an enhancement bonus and possibly also one or more special properties, but the magic of the pommel stone supersedes the existing enchantments

The Incarnate Weapon's essentia ability is worded thusly:

Quote
The incarnate weapon gains an enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls equal to the number of points of essentia you invest in it.

A single point of essentia allows you to attach the Pommel Stone, and it says nothing about what happens if the weapon loses it's original enhancement (so you may or may not be able to use that essentia as you choose).

The only downside is a +10 pommel stone costs 25% more than a +10 weapon, but the upsides far outweigh that. So many enhancements you can use...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 15, 2014, 04:07:42 PM
---
RAW, it appears, at least in the Book of Vile Darkness, that the Disciple and Thrall PrCs don't require to worship the actual archfiend

Agree in terms of crunch ; grumble grumble agree with fluff.

Supplicant, Patron, only one, can't be another.
Nothing about what Deity you're (nominally) involved with.

Hey Loki, mind if I cozy up to Orcus for a "while" ?

Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 15, 2014, 07:02:59 PM
Starting w the Faiths of Eberron, you can worship pantheons. So you could do the Archdevils or Demon Lords, could it extend to all the archfiends?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 16, 2014, 02:39:08 PM
I like the general idea.
Any one particular Demon Lord or ArchDevil
could be sneaking it's way into a Pantheon.
Am I Orcus?  Nope.  I just won the annual deity eating
contest, so I'm spreading around some apple pie cheer.

For the specifics of this, the Thrall To or Disciple Of feats
have the limiting language to one.  Maybe that extends
only to the benefits of that type of "feat group" and you
couldn't take 2 of the PrCs devoted to differing masters.
But you could still take a deity specific nonDL/AD PrC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 16, 2014, 03:43:47 PM
Am I Orcus?  Nope.  I just won the annual deity eating
contest

Annual Deity Eating Contest. 
Wat. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on February 16, 2014, 08:36:36 PM
Does being pushed/bull-rushed count as "taking movement?"

Because if so than Stormguard Warrior: Channel The Storm (ToB 36) + Thicket of Blades + Knockback is fucking hysterical.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on February 17, 2014, 03:46:08 AM
Knight unburdened (The Forge of War, p114) is a 1st-level spell that removes the speed reduction from medium and heavy armor for an hour per level.  It's pretty limited for spell lists, but there's always archivist. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on February 17, 2014, 04:44:50 AM
Knight unburdened (The Forge of War, p114) is a 1st-level spell that removes the speed reduction from medium and heavy armor for an hour per level.  It's pretty limited for spell lists, but there's always archivist.
I actually just found that while I was looking for stuff about raising the max-dex.

It's an Artificer 1, Paladin 1, Blackguard 1 spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 17, 2014, 05:23:53 PM
Am I Orcus?  Nope.  I just won the annual deity eating
contest

Annual Deity Eating Contest. 
Wat.

 :D heh-heh whoops. 
It would take rather large doses of T.O. to eat deities.

or

Yeah I'm big enough to win said hypothetical eating contest. 
Things just run right through my kitty avatar ...  :ahem eww
... so it could win too.

or

Once a cycle of the Eberron planes, the deities get together
for a DvR-only fair (affair?).  One of the many contests, is
how many Paragon-template Pies you can eat, without using
any/all of your hands or magic generated hands.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 17, 2014, 06:10:32 PM
Am I Orcus?  Nope.  I just won the annual deity eating
contest

Annual Deity Eating Contest. 
Wat.

Sounds like something from the BoEF.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 18, 2014, 05:38:11 PM
 :sh :flirt ... Book of Existentialist Farting

also known as Thor doesn't go "down" easy.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 19, 2014, 07:47:17 PM
Supernatural Instincts feat (http://dndtools.eu/feats/fiendish-codex-ii-tyrants-of-the-nine-hells--67/supernatural-instincts--2847/) (OK, new to me at least... found it in Arz's Dragon Descendent mini-guide).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on February 19, 2014, 07:59:46 PM
Tome of Magic has the Supernatural Opportunist feat which lets you do the same thing, but has a much worse pre-req.  I like the FCII version better!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 20, 2014, 02:21:04 AM
what happens when you cast Incarnate Construct on a 12-headed Hydra with Half-Iron Golem arms, when 11 of the heads are destroyed?

---
Quote from: Savage Species
"Insectile" is an inherited template that can be added to any giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid (hereafter referred to as the base creature). An insectile creature is a biped, and it gains four more arms. It has all the base creature's characteristics, except as noted below.
I noticed that the Insectile template changes to only 2 legs, so Centaurs become 'humans' with 6 arms.

how would an insectile Tauric human-centipede realistically walk, since it only has a pair of centipede legs?

is an insectile ormyrr just a Jabba the Hutt that does a jig on a pair of scrawny legs?

---
doesn't hiding also hide your equipment? Would that mean hiding behind a held tower shield causes the shield to also disappear, since it is your equipment?

Otherwise, what happens to your spear when its sticking out of your cubby hole, since that too is equipment?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on February 20, 2014, 11:19:11 AM
Tome of Magic has the Supernatural Opportunist feat which lets you do the same thing, but has a much worse pre-req.  I like the FCII version better!

Do they stack? Given how many creatures use SUAs, that plus Double Hit could really mess with enemies.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 20, 2014, 12:30:52 PM
They wouldn't; you only get one AoO per triggering action.

The only reason that Robilar's Gambit and Kharmic Strike stack is that one triggers when an enemy misses, and the other triggers when the enemy attacks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 20, 2014, 04:03:15 PM
and the other triggers when the enemy attacks.
A successful attack provokes an AoO for Karmic Strike, not a missed one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 20, 2014, 04:40:53 PM

what happens when you cast Incarnate Construct on a 12-headed Hydra with Half-Iron Golem arms, when 11 of the heads are destroyed?

You get a Baby Hecatoncheire ...  :cloud9 ... with that missing arms mutation Heca-Moms recoil from in horror.  Don't kick the baby.

Niice.
The hydra entry in d20srd doesn't have the head*2 regen goodie
listed as (ex) or (su) or Special Attack or Special Quality.
It's more like descriptive text.  I guess that makes it "natural".
Nother possibility is the whole last Polymorph errata gets spellcasting cheese.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 20, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
The hydra entry in d20srd doesn't have the head*2 regen goodie listed as (ex) or (su) or Special Attack or Special Quality.
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm
Fast Healing (Ex)
Each round, a hydra heals damage equal to 10 + the number of its original heads.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on February 20, 2014, 06:34:24 PM
The hydra entry in d20srd doesn't have the head*2 regen goodie listed as (ex) or (su) or Special Attack or Special Quality.
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm
Fast Healing (Ex)
Each round, a hydra heals damage equal to 10 + the number of its original heads.
Quote
Each time a head is severed, two new heads spring from the stump in 1d4 rounds. A hydra can never have more than twice its original number of heads at any one time, and any extra heads it gains beyond its original number wither and die within a day.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 21, 2014, 12:53:35 AM
It appears to me that the head regrowth is not tied to the fast healing, where the fast healing is tied to heads.

also, it appears that the head regrowth is natural while the fast healing is Ex
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on February 21, 2014, 01:10:48 AM
There are rules for sleep deprivation under the "Appalling Fecundity" sign in Elder Evils.

Quote
Strong: Living creatures that require sleep lose the ability to do so, as their bodies fidget and their thoughts race. Physical exhaustion sets in, and eventually minds break. A living creature can go without sleep for a number of days equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum one). Thereafter it is fatigued, remaining in this state for a number of days equal to its Constitution modifier (again, minimum one); if it would become fatigued during that time, it is exhausted instead. Each day after that period, the creature takes 1 point of Wisdom damage. If the total Wisdom damage exceeds its Hit Dice, the creature is affected as if by an insanity spell. Once its Wisdom score drops to 0, the creature becomes unconscious but cannot recover lost Wisdom naturally. Only a sleep or deep slumber spell or equivalent effect can grant rest for a time, after which the effects of the sign begin anew.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 21, 2014, 01:52:40 AM
Combat Brute + Doomstrike weapon = 2 additional attacks after a successful sunder of a weapon (1 for a shield)

Power Components are a nice item to make with Minor/Major Creation
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 21, 2014, 09:48:07 AM
There are rules for sleep deprivation under the "Appalling Fecundity" sign in Elder Evils.

Quote
Strong: Living creatures that require sleep lose the ability to do so, as their bodies fidget and their thoughts race. Physical exhaustion sets in, and eventually minds break. A living creature can go without sleep for a number of days equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum one). Thereafter it is fatigued, remaining in this state for a number of days equal to its Constitution modifier (again, minimum one); if it would become fatigued during that time, it is exhausted instead. Each day after that period, the creature takes 1 point of Wisdom damage. If the total Wisdom damage exceeds its Hit Dice, the creature is affected as if by an insanity spell. Once its Wisdom score drops to 0, the creature becomes unconscious but cannot recover lost Wisdom naturally. Only a sleep or deep slumber spell or equivalent effect can grant rest for a time, after which the effects of the sign begin anew.
Sadly, nothing in that prevents you from healing the 1 point of wisdom damage naturally each day.  It only prevents you from recovering wisdom naturally after the wisdom score has dropped to 0.  So, as long as someone has a base wisdom higher than 1 (and doesn't take Wis damage from some other effect), they can't ever reach 0, and won't ever become insane (because 1 point of wisdom damage never exceeds the HD of even a first level commoner.)

Their intent was good, and a simple house rule removing the natural healing once you take the first point of Wisdom damage would fix it, but as written this affect isn't some terrible apocalypse for mankind; it just drops everyone's Wisdom by 1 and fatigues them, effectively indefinitely.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on February 21, 2014, 10:27:28 AM
Sadly, nothing in that prevents you from healing the 1 point of wisdom damage naturally each day.
Quick check of the rules compendium shows that
Quote
HEALING ABILITY DAMAGE
If, during a 24-hour period, a creature gets a full 8 hours of sleep or equivalent rest (depending on the creature’s race), that creature recovers 1 ability score point per damaged ability score.
it needs sleep. Which we can't do without magic, so all the mundane folk do go crazy eventually.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 21, 2014, 10:50:49 AM
Sadly, nothing in that prevents you from healing the 1 point of wisdom damage naturally each day.
Quick check of the rules compendium shows that
Quote
HEALING ABILITY DAMAGE
If, during a 24-hour period, a creature gets a full 8 hours of sleep or equivalent rest (depending on the creature’s race), that creature recovers 1 ability score point per damaged ability score.
it needs sleep. Which we can't do without magic, so all the mundane folk do go crazy eventually.
I am really happy to see some sense injected into the rules by that book. Not every "clarification" made in there actually makes sense, but this one sure does. (It seems like obvious RAI in the srd rules, but sadly they didn't explicitly say that you needed sleep...).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 21, 2014, 11:29:24 AM
Sadly, nothing in that prevents you from healing the 1 point of wisdom damage naturally each day.
Quick check of the rules compendium shows that
Quote
HEALING ABILITY DAMAGE
If, during a 24-hour period, a creature gets a full 8 hours of sleep or equivalent rest (depending on the creature’s race), that creature recovers 1 ability score point per damaged ability score.
it needs sleep. Which we can't do without magic, so all the mundane folk do go crazy eventually.

They should have said so explicitly in the ability, for those that don't use Rules Compendium  ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 21, 2014, 03:08:26 PM
<snip>
Oh that. I thought he meant the Hydra's HP regeneration based on it's number of heads. *shrugs*

They should have said so explicitly in the ability, for those that don't use Rules Compendium  ;)
Actually the equivalent rest puts it back to you. They don't need to sleep, they just need to toss and turn in bed for eight hours a day. If they get up to pace around, you can count that as an interruption and sooner or later the sustained damage will add up. It just takes a while, which is kind of the point. Killing people in a week isn't evil enough, slowly driving them mad so the still sane ones have to deal with them is the best way to go about things.  :devil
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 21, 2014, 03:57:11 PM

<snip>
Oh that. I thought he meant the Hydra's HP regeneration based on it's number of heads. *shrugs*

Hence my updated sig  :)

Still that's rather fantastic.  You've got a weird looking robot.
It says hey chop off my head.  <pop>  Now it has +1 head.
Repeat.  Stops at previous hydra max.
Very overpowered.


Somebody give Zook a psuedo-natural cookie  :cake it's a cookie.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 21, 2014, 09:56:54 PM
Thx :)

you could even give it lycanthropy, since its now a Giant.

---
Metamagic Item infusion + Persistent Spell + wand of 'insert here' = very nice
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 21, 2014, 11:20:30 PM
wand of 'insert here'
I will NOT insert a wand there...  :twitch



 :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 21, 2014, 11:40:10 PM
....  :o ow!

 :lmao

looks like you can make wands of infusions, could cast Metamagic Item (persistent spell) on a Wand of Metamagic Item?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on February 22, 2014, 12:30:23 AM
Actually the equivalent rest puts it back to you. They don't need to sleep, they just need to toss and turn in bed for eight hours a day.

Actually no.
Quote
HEALING ABILITY DAMAGE
If, during a 24-hour period, a creature gets a full 8 hours of sleep or equivalent rest (depending on the creature’s race), that creature recovers 1 ability score point per damaged ability score.
The only equivalent rest to 8 hours sleep is 4 hours trance, or something similar to trancing (ie. that states it counts as 8 hours rest).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 22, 2014, 10:44:02 AM
So you start off by saying no, then tell me Elves can do it just fine? Umm, k.

And now, a moment with SorO_Lost.
Quote from: The rest of the entry
Complete bed rest for the entire 24 hours doubles this rate. Undertaking even light activity during a 24-hour period prevents this additional healing.
You don't need sleep. Period.

See also, the Heal Skill.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 22, 2014, 11:04:18 AM
The rules aren't clear enough and might seem contradictory, but it should be abundantly clear that whatever would be considered "rest" for the character is what's needed.  For some races, that means sleep.  For others, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on February 22, 2014, 03:57:52 PM
Tome of Magic has the Supernatural Opportunist feat which lets you do the same thing, but has a much worse pre-req.  I like the FCII version better!

I liked the fact that unlike mageslayer, no caster nerfing occurs. Most of the mageslayers I've played are partial casters and this hurts. Along with the fact that wizards are tricksome foes already...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on February 22, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
The rules aren't clear enough and might seem contradictory, but it should be abundantly clear that whatever would be considered "rest" for the character is what's needed.  For some races, that means sleep.  For others, it doesn't.

24 hours of bed rest in no way involves 24 hours of sleeping, so no, it is not abundantly clear; it is not in fact clear at all.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 22, 2014, 09:47:18 PM
The rules aren't clear enough and might seem contradictory, but it should be abundantly clear that whatever would be considered "rest" for the character is what's needed.  For some races, that means sleep.  For others, it doesn't.

24 hours of bed rest in no way involves 24 hours of sleeping, so no, it is not abundantly clear; it is not in fact clear at all.

"For some races, that means [some] sleep..."  Better?

Or how about we not go RAWtard on it and just ask whether the character is resting in whatever way that character would rest?  Sleep?  Sure.  Tossing and turning?  Why not?  Laying there twiddling their thumbs?  Go for it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 23, 2014, 02:17:02 AM
Found another solution to Mindbender + Mindsight wrecking the game.
Telepathy Block from BoED (Brd 5, Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 5) only lasts 1 round per level, but it is an 80-foot radius emanation, and a Widened version (8th level slot) shuts it down completely.  Although it comes from the BoED, it isn't a [good] or exalted or sanctified spell, so as far as I know, there's no reason the bad guys can't use it too.

This just adds to the gem of Hellbreaker, which can also shut down Mindblank, in a limited fashion.

Granted, it would have to be used by foes that know what to expect, so it wouldn't come into play in a lot of situations.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on February 23, 2014, 07:37:01 PM
The rules aren't clear enough and might seem contradictory, but it should be abundantly clear that whatever would be considered "rest" for the character is what's needed.  For some races, that means sleep.  For others, it doesn't.

24 hours of bed rest in no way involves 24 hours of sleeping, so no, it is not abundantly clear; it is not in fact clear at all.

"For some races, that means [some] sleep..."  Better?

Or how about we not go RAWtard on it and just ask whether the character is resting in whatever way that character would rest?  Sleep?  Sure.  Tossing and turning?  Why not?  Laying there twiddling their thumbs?  Go for it.

I can agree with the latter, but since Appalling Fecundity only prevents actual sleep, and does not prevent insomniac tossing and turning, it does not prevent recovering ability damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 23, 2014, 11:46:29 PM
Found another solution to Mindbender + Mindsight wrecking the game.
Telepathy Block from BoED (Brd 5, Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 5) only lasts 1 round per level, but it is an 80-foot radius emanation, and a Widened version (8th level slot) shuts it down completely.  Although it comes from the BoED, it isn't a [good] or exalted or sanctified spell, so as far as I know, there's no reason the bad guys can't use it too.

This just adds to the gem of Hellbreaker, which can also shut down Mindblank, in a limited fashion.

Granted, it would have to be used by foes that know what to expect, so it wouldn't come into play in a lot of situations.

I'm not sure Telepathy Block would foil Mindsight.  The spell "blocks telepathic communication... making telepathic conversation impossible."  Mindsight requires the Telepathy ability, but isn't itself "telepathic communication" or "conversation." 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 24, 2014, 12:53:32 AM
You may well have a point there.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 24, 2014, 11:29:50 AM
Oh dear Pelor not this again. Yes Mindsight by RAW doesn't give a crap about Telepathy, but if you read the it then it does. This is old news, no one cares. Moving on...

Boots of Gravity!
They let you redefine gravity for you, a result of which gives you a fly speed of 60ft, meh. You can walk up buildings, and chillax standing upside down on the roof. Combine with a Climb Speed and you can hang upside down and pour water right side up. 50k to screw with people's heads.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on February 24, 2014, 11:45:08 AM
I never really appreciated this until i read Brandon Sandersons Way of Kings book.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 24, 2014, 12:07:32 PM
Boots of Gravity!
Source?

I never really appreciated this until i read Brandon Sandersons Way of Kings book.
Makes me think of Mistborn Lurching; I haven't yet read Way of Kings.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 24, 2014, 04:41:46 PM
Boots of Gravity!
Source?
Planar Handbook.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 24, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
The rules aren't clear enough and might seem contradictory, but it should be abundantly clear that whatever would be considered "rest" for the character is what's needed.  For some races, that means sleep.  For others, it doesn't.

24 hours of bed rest in no way involves 24 hours of sleeping, so no, it is not abundantly clear; it is not in fact clear at all.

Might wanna role-play a required Coin Flip, to not grapple the cyclops.
wait for it ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 25, 2014, 03:06:16 PM
i just noticed that the Dread Witch has an unusual loophole.

Quote
   Absorb Fear (Su): Starting at 2nd-level, you can turn your own fear, whether natural or mystical in origin, into extra power for your spells. Any time you are exposed to a condition that could make you shaken, all your spells function at +1 caster level; if the condition that could make you frightened, all your spells function at +2 caster level; if panicked, all your spells function at +3 caster level. These bonuses last for the duration of the fear effect, of for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, whichever is less (Of course, if you fail your save against the condition, you might not be in the position to use the bonuses, but you do have them.) These bonuses are treated in all ways as though you had failed the save. In other words, if you are subject to a spell that causes panic on a failed save, but only frightens those who make the save, you gain the bonus from being panicked, even if you make the save.
   You can, instead, choose to cast a single spell; this casting does not use up a spell slot. You must make this choice the instant you are subject to the fear effect, and once you have made your choice you must cast the spell within a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. You can cast an additional cantrip if shaken, an additional 1st-level spell if frightened, or an additional 2nd-level spell if panicked.
   If you are subject to a second fear effect while still enjoying the effects of the first, either the granted benefits or holding the extra spell, you must decide whether to keep the original effect or replace it with the new one; you cannot benefit from more than one fear effect at a time.

i noticed that this ability triggers from ANY fear source. just zap yourself with a Wand of Fear (Thayan Slaver 2nd level spell), then cast a FREE 3rd level spell.

does this even apply if you are immune to that actual fear effect?
-   ex. Fearless (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/fearless--1096/) feat
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 25, 2014, 03:33:05 PM
The max spell level you can get out of Dread Witch is 2nd level, and that requires Panicked.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 26, 2014, 01:00:52 AM
Doh.. I was thinking shaken = 1st, frightened = 2nd, panicked = 3rd.

but still could be useful when buying low charge wands for free.spells

30gp / 2nd level spell = not too shabby
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 26, 2014, 01:06:08 AM
Get yourself a Beast of Bane cohort (the template has a +2 Level Adjustment) and its frightful presence can get you unlimited 1st level spells.  It's not that amazing, but it's something.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 26, 2014, 01:22:01 AM
or get Touch of Hate (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/touch-hate--3599/)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 26, 2014, 05:17:11 AM
or get Touch of Hate (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/touch-hate--3599/)
Wow... so once every ten days, you can create a templated animal that follows your commands indefinitely? That's crazy awesome. Sounds like an actual mechanism for the BBEG to fill a forest with his horrific minions.  :D

Edit: Holy crap! It says "The animal can have no more Hit Dice prior to transformation than you have cleric levels." and the Beast of Xvim template lets it gain hit dice by eating other creatures like a barghest. So your minions aren't even limited to your own cleric level! They can get more powerful by eating intruders, but it still says nothing about them not obeying you! This feat is insane. How have I never heard of this before?  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 26, 2014, 12:13:26 PM
Reforged (http://dndtools.eu/classes/reforged/) has a lovely capstone, Embrace Emotion.

Quote
Embrace Emotion (Ex): By internalizing the philosophical teachings of the reforged, you learn to experience emotions more powerful than most living creatures ever know. From 3rd level, any time you are subject to an effect that grants you a morale bonus, that bonus is increased by +1.

I feel like this could be a nice boost to an IC Bard build; it would be slapped on at the end, but I think it would give that particular character +1d6 damage from Dragonfire Inspiration...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 26, 2014, 01:45:20 PM
This feat is insane. How have I never heard of this before?  :lmao

it's in that tiny section in the back of the PG of FR... usually its missed or ignored ;)

the only real reason i look back there is the Black Blood Hunter for the hybrid SA thing at 3rd level
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 26, 2014, 02:27:09 PM
Reforged (http://dndtools.eu/classes/reforged/) has a lovely capstone, Embrace Emotion.

Quote
Embrace Emotion (Ex): By internalizing the philosophical teachings of the reforged, you learn to experience emotions more powerful than most living creatures ever know. From 3rd level, any time you are subject to an effect that grants you a morale bonus, that bonus is increased by +1.

I feel like this could be a nice boost to an IC Bard build; it would be slapped on at the end, but I think it would give that particular character +1d6 damage from Dragonfire Inspiration...

Better than Retraining, less cheesy than max PsyRef-ing.
2 builds then, one before the capstone, one after.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 26, 2014, 04:25:09 PM
I feel like this could be a nice boost to an IC Bard build; it would be slapped on at the end, but I think it would give that particular character +1d6 damage from Dragonfire Inspiration...
Didn't check but I think you're right. WoC applies to the Bard's Bonus which would be factored before it's application to a Reforged. DI however makes you lose the bonus to gain d6s, implying that the Moral Bonus is granted and replaced (which is why undead cannot use it without requiem).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 26, 2014, 04:50:56 PM
Watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKA4w2O61Xo), discuss.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 26, 2014, 07:52:23 PM
Wrong thread... but that guy's an ass.

Why?

It's similar to the following problem: what is the next number in this sequence? 1, 1, 1.

Give up? Have an answer?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on February 26, 2014, 08:34:01 PM
Okay... My player asked me to research some Familiar crap.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

Okay... So, I have a familiar. I cast Devil's Tongue on myself (and my familiar) Then I use Balor's Nimbus I can cast both of these at 3rd level with a high enough int. So, I grapple with my tongue. If I grapple, I assume my Familar gets an auto grapple as well (That target is immobilized. How can my familiar miss?) So, assuming I hit first, the target will take an average of 21+21 points of fire damage. So unless my target really is impressive, WHOOSH!

Perhaps a possible answer for That Damn Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a), since it includes being grappled, that the crab is want to do.

EDIT: BTW, I just can't stop laughing about a wizard and his toad familar just burning people to ash with their elongated tongues.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on February 26, 2014, 08:41:48 PM
(click to show/hide)

Okay, I cast this, include my familiar. We both turn into displacer beasts. I immedately dismiss the spell on myself and mount up on my displacer beast familiar and ride into battle. As long as I'm riding him, we are never more then 5 feet apart and no chance the familiar will accidentally get further then five feet from me and lose the spell.

Note, nothing under familiar states that I have to keep the spell up on myself to keep the spell going on my familiar.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on February 26, 2014, 08:56:03 PM
Okay... So, I have a familiar. I cast Devil's Tongue on myself (and my familiar) Then I use Balor's Nimbus I can cast both of these at 3rd level with a high enough int. So, I grapple with my tongue. If I grapple, I assume my Familar gets an auto grapple as well (That target is immobilized. How can my familiar miss?) So, assuming I hit first, the target will take an average of 21+21 points of fire damage. So unless my target really is impressive, WHOOSH!

Perhaps a possible answer for That Damn Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a), since it includes being grappled, that the crab is want to do.

EDIT: BTW, I just can't stop laughing about a wizard and his toad familar just burning people to ash with their elongated tongues.

Huh. I continue my research and something else just jumped out...

(click to show/hide)

They are extra attacks. So, technically, they could grapple two different targets from my tongue. So me and my toad familiar could grapple 6 different targets, or 3 targets twice for an average of 21 points of fire damage each time we successfully grapple.

That is just *beep*-ed up right there.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 26, 2014, 09:25:32 PM
(click to show/hide)

Okay, I cast this, include my familiar. We both turn into displacer beasts. I immedately dismiss the spell on myself and mount up on my displacer beast familiar and ride into battle. As long as I'm riding him, we are never more then 5 feet apart and no chance the familiar will accidentally get further then five feet from me and lose the spell.

Note, nothing under familiar states that I have to keep the spell up on myself to keep the spell going on my familiar.
Note:
Quote
Share Spells

At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).
You don't have to worry about your familiar getting further than 5 feet away.  Just cast it directly on him to start with. (This only works assuming you don't also want the benefit of the spell on yourself.)

Also, I don't think you can have it affect both of you and then only dismiss it upon yourself.  It's one spell, if you dismiss it, it ends, period.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on February 26, 2014, 09:38:11 PM
Note:
Quote
Share Spells

At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).
You don't have to worry about your familiar getting further than 5 feet away.  Just cast it directly on him to start with. (This only works assuming you don't also want the benefit of the spell on yourself.)

Also, I don't think you can have it affect both of you and then only dismiss it upon yourself.  It's one spell, if you dismiss it, it ends, period.

Been trying to figure that out myself, actually. I wonder if there is something in the FAQ.

Do note, not all personal spells have a target of You, however.

For example, case in point:

(click to show/hide)

No target You. Then again, who'd want it just on the familiar? Someone runs past you, they provoke an AoO from you and your familiar. Sweet.

(click to show/hide)

Range: Personal, Target: Pebble? I don't get this one. But there ya go! So my familiar can hold and drop pebbles that suddenly WOOSH off to smack someone? Cool. As a swift action? Cooler.

BTW, do you think the wizard and the familiar get their own set of pebbles, or do they have to share the same pebbles?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 26, 2014, 09:50:15 PM
Wrong thread... but that guy's an ass.
It might be, depending if the discussion really takes off or not.

Quote
"I can't see a thing on the surface of Venus. Why not? Because it's covered with a dense layer of clouds. Well, what are clouds made of? Water, of course. Therefore, Venus must have an awful lot of water on it. Therefore, the surface must be wet. Well, if the surface is wet, it's probably a swamp. If there's a swamp, there's ferns. If there's ferns, maybe there's even dinosaurs."
This is D&D on the Forums in a gist.

Think of all the stupid fallacies we're seen through the years. Genesis let's you have infinite time planes, Kobolds are True Dragons, Practiced Spellcaster lets you enter PrCs by the 2nd level, Artificer is more powerful than a Wizard, Monks are useless and weaker than NPC Warriors, Spellcasting is an Extraordinary Ability, even the more recent GitP claims you can stack Metapower Feats, etc. are all thoughts put forth by someone who didn't understand what they were reading. Each one has easily found and obtained rules proving how incorrect they are, and every single one of them was debunked by me.

Why was it my voice leading those arguments? Most of you are probably thinking "you have a pretty fucking big mouth" but that's not at all what I'm asking. Why didn't you read the books? Why did we have to wait months for me to quash Genesis by finally reading the DMG or Kobolds by finally reading an unindex'ed section in the Draconomicon or for some stupid GitP trick to get posted here before someone reminded you the PHB says Feat's don't stack?

That little video explains it. Watch it, make the same mistakes, commit the even greater error of thinking that you came up with the answer sooner means you're more intelligent than the people he spoke with. Then sit the hell down and listen to him explain how real ideas undergo real testing and how you're precondition to look for yeses. Which in our forum history, you can see clear indications of. And maybe, just maybe, next time you see some shiny trick you may ask your self if it really works and test against it rather than agreeing those clouds on Venus are covering up dinosaurs simply because it sounds plausible.

And that's my fun find. A little bit of education to make you a better poster and to help you understand D&D just that much more.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on February 26, 2014, 10:04:28 PM
Which is not what this thread is about; please, start a new thread if you want a discussion.

Don't derail this thread. Please.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nanshork on February 26, 2014, 11:09:40 PM
Which is not what this thread is about; please, start a new thread if you want a discussion.

Don't derail this thread. Please.

I'm going to second this.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PixelHead777 on February 27, 2014, 01:44:05 AM
Which is not what this thread is about; please, start a new thread if you want a discussion.

Don't derail this thread. Please.

I'm going to second this.

:backtotopic

They made an emoticon just for this purpose we might as well use it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 27, 2014, 04:44:08 AM
Related to the Apocalypse from the Sky ask a question...

can an Incantatrix's (http://dndtools.eu/classes/players-guide-to-faerun--22/incantatrix/) cooperative spell her own Apocalypse with Twin Spell and/or Repeat Spell?

the thing that so throwing me off is the standard action readied to enhance.

could you do it with Celerity (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/celerity--3003/) (obviously immunity to daze is needed)?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 27, 2014, 07:55:05 AM
Cooperative Spell requires you and another Spellcaster to cast simultaneously. A Repeated Spell is recast, but recast by you and not someone else.

That being said, I see where you're going with it and it's certainly reasonable to ask your DM.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 27, 2014, 12:19:53 PM
i only saw 'willing allied spellcaster', not 'another'.... 'adjacent' though means not you...

unless you're a splitting creature (Protean Scourge, etc.), then you can use it on your adjacent willing allied spellcaster self
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on February 28, 2014, 08:08:02 PM
Okay. I got it worked out.

I take the dragon familiar feat.
I get a wyrmling familiar.
I get a dracolich brew and a dracolich phylactery (52K). I turn my wyrmling familiar into a dracolich.
He dies. He comes back. I enslave a 21st level sorcerer, wizard, or cleric with craft wondrous item.
I polymorph the dracolich familiar into a living creature. I use the psionic power fusion to merge the 21t level sorcerer with the dracolich.

The fused sorcerer/dracolich crafts 8 soul gems at 120,000 gp and 4,800 xp each.

RESULT: 1 Demilich familiar
TOTAL WBL COST: 1,972,000 gp
Ultimate Familiar Bragging Rights: Priceless.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 01, 2014, 02:03:01 AM
Strict RAW it doesn't work.... The Draconomicon Dracolich isn't a Lich, it's its own template, thus not able to become a Demilich.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 02, 2014, 04:02:42 PM
Strict RAW it doesn't work.... The Draconomicon Dracolich isn't a Lich, it's its own template, thus not able to become a Demilich.
Even just having a dracolich familiar is pretty awesome.  :lmao (I don't think it would actually stay your familiar after the transformation, though...)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2014, 04:12:44 AM
Hell yeah it'd be cool ;)

you could do it w ubermount cheese
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 03, 2014, 05:49:04 PM
Is there any Fluff or Crunch that defines a Draco-Lich as being more "Lich" than Draco-something ?

wiki has this: The dracolich was detailed in Dragon #344 (June 2006), in the "Ecology of the Dracolich".
I've no access.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2014, 01:37:18 AM
Quote
Hide Life (Tome and Blood: A Guidebook to Wizards and Sorcerers)
Necromancy
Level: Sorcerer 9, Wizard 9,
Components: V, S, M, XP,
Casting Time: 1 day
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous (see text)
You isolate your life force in one single part of the body-typically the little finger on the left hand. You can then remove this part and store it in some safe place. Once the spell takes effect, you can no longer be killed by ordinary means: If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects. Instead, you are staggered (only able to take partial actions).

While this spell is in effect, if you would otherwise be disabled or dying, you do not lose hit points for taking actions or having a negative hit point total. Healing does not automatically return you to 0 hit points but simply adjusts your current total upward.
If you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended.

If the hidden body part is ever destroyed, the spell is broken and your life force returns to your body if you would not otherwise be dead.

Material Component: A small sickle made of the purest silver, which you use to detach the body part to be stored.
XP Cost: 5,000 XP.
Ok, so you burn a 9th level Spell and 5,000XP one day and chop off your little finger, then for the rest of your unnatural life you're Staggered.

A couple days later you're hit with Finger of Death. It's ok, you can tank it.
Then an ubercharger Monk hits your face, repeatedly, for five million damage. It's ok, you can tank it.
Then the Warblade uses Time Stands Still and proceed to roll six Natural 20s in a row with his Vorpal Sword. It's ok, you can tank it.
They give up and run away, a couple days later a Mindflayer grapples and rips your brain out. It's ok, you can tank it.
A Wizard hears about your immorality, he shows up and sees your negative HP total and uses Power Word Kill. It's ok, you can tank it.
Then he casts Imprisonment, well you're screwed but you get the idea.

Anything that would outright kill you is ignored, including HP damage. Also, drowning your self is not a healing effect, you know in case you want to keep from going to far into the negatives. This also means you can have a Constitution Score of 0 which is pretty frackin hilarious. It also has the side effect of irrevocably winning against thousands of mundane builds for you. I'm sorry, did McFighter know how to kill me in 29 different ways by using his thumb? Sorry, I can't lose unless you use Flesh to Stone kthx.

...Which if you are turned to Stone and you're still immune to things that would kill you. Does that mean you are now an unbreakable statue? *ponders*
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 04, 2014, 02:50:59 AM
I took the "instead, you are staggered" bit to be referring to being rendered disabled, dying, or dead.  As in, if something would render you disabled, dying, or dead, it instead renders you staggered.  Not that you're Staggered 24/7, forever. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 04, 2014, 04:38:44 AM
That's also how I read it, and it makes it stronger.
I can remember any tricks for ignoring staggered, but I bet there's some immunity somewhere.


Most worrying part is that you can't be healed if you're dead, and if Healing bucket is out, we need to spam contingent resurrections for when the spell ends or somehow find a way to heal without being able to benefit from healing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on March 04, 2014, 05:33:45 AM
You're staggered forever because you took 12 trillion damage, and can't be bothered to heal yourself that much.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2014, 08:45:54 AM
You're staggered forever because you took 12 trillion damage, and can't be bothered to heal yourself that much.
Pretty much. Once the Spell is saving you form being dead at -11HP you lose the ability to be healed which locks you into a dead/staggered state.

Unless you put your head in a bucket of water.  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on March 04, 2014, 09:44:50 AM
Sounds like a nice pairing with Stranger with Burning Eyes or other magic jar specialist who doesn't care about their husk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on March 04, 2014, 10:39:52 AM
You're staggered forever because you took 12 trillion damage, and can't be bothered to heal yourself that much.
Pretty much. Once the Spell is saving you form being dead at -11HP you lose the ability to be healed which locks you into a dead/staggered state.

Unless you put your head in a bucket of water.  :smirk
Or a friendly psion. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crisisofBreath.htm)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 04, 2014, 01:04:32 PM
what if you're immune to being staggered?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 04, 2014, 01:12:10 PM
That's also how I read it, and it makes it stronger.
I can remember any tricks for ignoring staggered, but I bet there's some immunity somewhere.


Most worrying part is that you can't be healed if you're dead, and if Healing bucket is out, we need to spam contingent resurrections for when the spell ends or somehow find a way to heal without being able to benefit from healing.
From the quote it looks like it's Instantaneous... The only thing that can end it is someone destroying your removed digit (so put that in an iron golems mouth, which you Imprison underneath the world's worst dungeon, at the bottom of the sea (or inside a star, etc).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Unbeliever on March 04, 2014, 02:40:59 PM
Is it just me or is that spell like crazily badly written?  As Phaedrusxy noted, it's instantaneous.  So, how can the spell "end."  Can it even be dispelled?  It still functions in an AMF, too, doesn't it? 

It also would help if they explained the way healing worked a little better.  I think posters above me are correct:  you can be healed normally until you are "dead."  And, then after that, no healing.  But, it could be spelled out better.  That being said, Delay Death would give you plenty of time to climb your hit point total back up in practice. 

As a side note, 2E had a spell nigh identical to this, I think in the Arabian setting.  It was obviously a Sinbad riff, and you just hid your heart away and couldn't be killed with hit point damage while it was intact.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 04, 2014, 06:04:43 PM
dude:  I laugh at the Hulking Hurler

DM:  Uhh, that's you're only action this round.

dude:  Rats!
HH tries again

DM:  Look you already took your action this round by saying Rats!  Now it's round 3.

dude:  Rats  :flutter
DM:  Ok now you're being annoying.  Round 4

dude:  point of order before I go, is the HH smart enough to figure out he can't hurt me?
DM:  Ok now you're being really annoying.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 04, 2014, 06:07:20 PM
So we finally found out how the Green Knight picked his head up and walked away?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2014, 06:16:23 PM
Is it just me or is that spell like crazily badly written?
Oh I think we all agree with you on that.

You know, old age makes you die. So you're immune to that too >.>
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PixelHead777 on March 04, 2014, 06:23:42 PM
You're staggered forever because you took 12 trillion damage, and can't be bothered to heal yourself that much.
Pretty much. Once the Spell is saving you form being dead at -11HP you lose the ability to be healed which locks you into a dead/staggered state.

Unless you put your head in a bucket of water.  :smirk
Or a friendly psion. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crisisofBreath.htm)
Is there any particular REASON we're sticking our head inside the friendly psion?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on March 04, 2014, 08:49:41 PM
Hide Life  + stuff
Does a staggered Swiftblade take normal actions? If so, combine it with that spell that Matyr spell and you have a fucking awesome concept.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2014, 10:33:43 PM
You're staggered forever because you took 12 trillion damage, and can't be bothered to heal yourself that much.
Pretty much. Once the Spell is saving you form being dead at -11HP you lose the ability to be healed which locks you into a dead/staggered state.

Unless you put your head in a bucket of water.  :smirk
Or a friendly psion. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crisisofBreath.htm)
Is there any particular REASON we're sticking our head inside the friendly psion?
So we feel better.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2014, 10:37:05 PM
Does a staggered Swiftblade take normal actions? If so, combine it with that spell that Matyr spell and you have a fucking awesome concept.
Yeah, stack orders apply. Stagger knocks you down to a single Move or Standard, Haste gives you another Standard. Immunity to being Staggered solves all your problems.

However, remember Undead and Outsiders are "destroyed" upon entering negatives. It's a bit different than being killed (sic, one leaves a corpse, normally) and doesn't work if you go by direct wording. So you'll want to use Favored of the Matyr over Necropoliton.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on March 05, 2014, 12:02:15 AM
In case the DM rules that "suffocation/drowning can't heal you (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on March 05, 2014, 01:28:59 AM
In case the DM rules that "suffocation/drowning can't heal you (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm)

Quote
If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects.

Wouldn't transparency apply?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on March 05, 2014, 09:27:34 AM
In case the DM rules that "suffocation/drowning can't heal you (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm)

Quote
If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects.

Wouldn't transparency apply?
To the disabled part, but it also sets your HP to -1, no?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on March 05, 2014, 10:32:24 AM
In case the DM rules that "suffocation/drowning can't heal you (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm)

Quote
If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects.

Wouldn't transparency apply?
To the disabled part, but it also sets your HP to -1, no?

I see it as one effect, but you ignore the usual effects, not the singular effect.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 05, 2014, 12:04:57 PM
The Manticore Sting feat from Dragonmarked is pretty cool, especially since it uses Daggers/Shurikens.

Remember this? I just remembered the Aptitude quality exists. We can now make Yumeko, provided we can bypass the inordinate price of enchanting that many weapons.

And since I realize that my previous post on the feat was rather lackluster, here you go:

Quote from: Dragonmarked pg 44
You are a master of the art of throwing numerous, sharp projectiles, such as daggers and darts.
Prerequisites: Mror dwarf, Dex 17, Quick Draw, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you take this feat, the range increment for daggers, darts, or shuriken increases by 10 feet when you throw them. In addition, as a standard action, you can throw two such weapons at the same time, provided you throw them at a single target within 30 feet. Both weapons use the same attack roll (with a –4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special). The weapons you throw do not have to be of the same type.

For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional dagger, dart, or shuriken to this attack, to a maximum of four weapons (in any combination) at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each weapon after the second adds a cumulative –2 penalty on the attack roll, for a total penalty of –6 for three weapons, and –8 for four. Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each weapon thrown.

Special: Regardless of the number of weapons you throw, you only apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) once. If you score a critical hit, only the first thrown weapon deals critical hit damage; all the others deal regular damage. If throwing more than one type of weapon, you must declare which weapon you throw first before rolling damage.

Basically Dwarven Manyshot for knives. Or Minotaur Greathammers if you use Aptitude.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on March 05, 2014, 12:34:23 PM
How does that work with our good friend Master Thrower?

EDIT: Sadly, Palm Throw doesn't look like it stacks with Manticore Sting. Pity. Still, it does stack with Two with One Blow and Palm Toss, which are lovely.

You know, once my schoolwork calms down, I have half a mind to write a handbook on volley attacks (of which, I think there's just Splitting, Manticore Sting, Manyshot, Palm Throw, and some stuff in d20 Modern. I'll go over what good sources of damage, nice stuff that adds to single attacks, and the like.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 05, 2014, 03:17:21 PM
Manticore Sting + Wu Jen's Fire Shuriken (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-arcane--55/fire-shuriken--500/)?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 06, 2014, 08:55:17 PM
Gal-Ralan from Cormyr, the Tearing of the Weave. A level 4~7 adventure module.

They take up the arms slot and deal one point of Con damage while worn. It's stated that this damage cannot be recovered by any means so long as they are worn but saying nothing about if you're already immune to Con damage.

So why do I bring this up? Pretty much 40%~50% off Resistance Bonuses to Saves. 625gp for a +1 bonus (vs 1k) or 15,600 for +5 (vs 30k). As if you needed more reasons to become an Undead Creature.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on March 07, 2014, 12:05:45 PM
Gal-Ralan from Cormyr, the Tearing of the Weave. A level 4~7 adventure module.

They take up the arms slot and deal one point of Con damage while worn. It's stated that this damage cannot be recovered by any means so long as they are worn but saying nothing about if you're already immune to Con damage.

So why do I bring this up? Pretty much 40%~50% off Resistance Bonuses to Saves. 625gp for a +1 bonus (vs 1k) or 15,600 for +5 (vs 30k). As if you needed more reasons to become an Undead Creature.

It's in Fiend Folio as well. Falls into that pay for power line such as Skin of Kaletor. Not sure how that plays out in custom item creation rules / cost reduction handbook analysis.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 07, 2014, 12:21:31 PM
Gal-Ralan from Cormyr, the Tearing of the Weave. A level 4~7 adventure module.

They take up the arms slot and deal one point of Con damage while worn. It's stated that this damage cannot be recovered by any means so long as they are worn but saying nothing about if you're already immune to Con damage.

So why do I bring this up? Pretty much 40%~50% off Resistance Bonuses to Saves. 625gp for a +1 bonus (vs 1k) or 15,600 for +5 (vs 30k). As if you needed more reasons to become an Undead Creature.

That item is one of the main reasons one of my players always makes it a point to have an odd Constitution score for.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 07, 2014, 04:20:47 PM
This might not necessarily be a fun find but this is from the Rules Compendium pg. 85 (which came out in 2007 for anyone who is wondering)

Spell Trigger

(click to show/hide)

Its an update to the Magic Item Rules that many people do not seem to be aware of, I could be wrong on that though.  :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 07, 2014, 06:48:12 PM
Oh, we know. It's why Wands of Hunter's Eye, Wraithstrike, Golemstrike, and Gravestrike get mentioned in just about any Rogue thread.

Works great with Dungeonscape's Wand Hilts to. You don't even have to put down your weapon to draw the Wand.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 07, 2014, 11:04:45 PM
I just noticed something cool. Skirmish damage applies to melee attacks, regardless of the range of said melee attack.

"She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet."
^This is the qualifying statement for skirmish damage.
"Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet."
^This is a restriction for ranged attacks.

So...stretch armstrong can stab you all he wants.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 08, 2014, 05:07:24 PM
Yeah, but only if it's melee. Who has more than 30ft melee attacks without also being 30ft wide?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on March 08, 2014, 05:11:17 PM
Just get a natural reach of 15'+, hit Expansion, and exploit the fact that Reach weapons for everyone but Medium doubles natural reach.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 08, 2014, 05:21:40 PM
Yeah, but only if it's melee. Who has more than 30ft melee attacks without also being 30ft wide?

Glad you asked. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12750.0)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 08, 2014, 06:05:01 PM
I thought everyone knew that's how skirmish worked. That's why I voted for TWF swift hunters in whatever that poll was...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 08, 2014, 06:35:10 PM
Glad you asked. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12750.0)
I like it, but needs more %Metal% Whirlwind Maneuvers from Tome of Battle. :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on March 08, 2014, 09:35:29 PM
Glad you asked. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12750.0)
I like it, but needs more %Metal% Whirlwind Maneuvers from Tome of Battle. :)

Unfortunately, those things specify adjacent, rather than just what's within reach.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 08, 2014, 09:57:49 PM
Glad you asked. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12750.0)
I like it, but needs more %Metal% Whirlwind Maneuvers from Tome of Battle. :)

Unfortunately, those things specify adjacent, rather than just what's within reach.

Indeed, that's why I went for some complementary stances instead. My group plays with a ton of feats, so I can generally get away with burning 5+ on feat chains.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 08, 2014, 11:56:46 PM
Yeah, but only if it's melee. Who has more than 30ft melee attacks without also being 30ft wide?

The Bloodstorm Blade should be able to with the right equipment.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 09, 2014, 01:59:46 AM
Yeah, but only if it's melee. Who has more than 30ft melee attacks without also being 30ft wide?

The Bloodstorm Blade should be able to with the right equipment.

The Bloodstorm Blade makes ranged strikes with melee weapons. The roll itself is a melee attack roll (for calculations), but as far as I can tell, it is still a ranged attack.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on March 09, 2014, 03:53:57 PM
Yeah, but only if it's melee. Who has more than 30ft melee attacks without also being 30ft wide?

The Bloodstorm Blade should be able to with the right equipment.

The Bloodstorm Blade makes ranged strikes with melee weapons. The roll itself is a melee attack roll (for calculations), but as far as I can tell, it is still a ranged attack.

blood wind.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 09, 2014, 05:33:55 PM
So funny thing about Barbarians and Illiteracy;

Illiteracy: Barbarians are the only characters who do not automatically know how to read and write. A barbarian may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write all languages he is able to speak.
A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a barbarian level does not lose the literacy he or she already had.

That's amusing with most prestige classes considered Barbarian appropriate such as the Primeval from Frostburn or the Frenzied Beserker.
Primeval is funny because of one of it's class features:

Regression (SU)
(click to show/hide)

So you learn to write as you get less intelligent? :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 10, 2014, 11:28:11 AM
The Barbarian's Wisdom goes up through, maybe he understands letters now. Or he could be beating them into submission so they tell him what they say. :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on March 12, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
Monkey Grip + Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound = No penalties w/ weapon one size larger plus a n exotic weapon proficiency.

Nice for gladiators of the harpoon or greatbow  ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 12, 2014, 07:33:00 PM
Bloodbound stuff can be found in the City of Stormreach book, if anyone's curious.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 12, 2014, 08:20:45 PM
Monkey Grip + Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound = No penalties w/ weapon one size larger plus a n exotic weapon proficiency.

Nice for gladiators of the harpoon or greatbow  ;)
Bloodbound stuff can be found in the City of Stormreach book, if anyone's curious.
So now you can actually duplicate Powerful Build via feats.  It just takes 3 of them (Jotunbrud, Monkey Grip, Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound).

Edit: Ah, I see from below that I was slightly wrong.  That would be much more difficult to add to an adventuring PC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 12, 2014, 08:25:21 PM
Slaughter Master isn't a feat; it's an affiliation bonus.  Page 99 of CoS.  The exact text reads:

Slaughter Master: Penalties for
using an improvised weapon, a
weapon you lack proficiency in, or
an inappropriately sized weapon
lessen by 2. A patron gifts you with
a magic item of up to 10,000 gp in
value. You must fight in a specialty
match every week.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on March 13, 2014, 11:32:24 AM
Monkey Grip + Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound = No penalties w/ weapon one size larger plus a n exotic weapon proficiency.

Nice for gladiators of the harpoon or greatbow  ;)
Bloodbound stuff can be found in the City of Stormreach book, if anyone's curious.
So now you can actually duplicate Powerful Build via feats.  It just takes 3 of them (Jotunbrud, Monkey Grip, Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound).

Edit: Ah, I see from below that I was slightly wrong.  That would be much more difficult to add to an adventuring PC.


unless you were the subject of frequent scrying... i could imagine some old rich fogies club where they scry on select champions sit around and sip fine mead and wines and bet on the outcome and methods used to overcome various encounters.



ALSO: Help a fellow minmaxboards chap (trappedslider) out brainstorming how to surprise and propose to his girl! (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12769.0)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 13, 2014, 11:53:28 AM
unless you were the subject of frequent scrying... i could imagine some old rich fogies club where they scry on select champions sit around and sip fine mead and wines and bet on the outcome and methods used to overcome various encounters.
This is a hilarious idea, and I definitely plan to include it in a game at some point... if I can remember it. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on March 13, 2014, 01:14:33 PM
unless you were the subject of frequent scrying... i could imagine some old rich fogies club where they scry on select champions sit around and sip fine mead and wines and bet on the outcome and methods used to overcome various encounters.
This is a hilarious idea, and I definitely plan to include it in a game at some point... if I can remember it. :P

Yeah, I'm going to use this too. It'd be a great way to break the fourth wall too, or at least lampshade particular players.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: kitep on March 13, 2014, 05:50:42 PM
unless you were the subject of frequent scrying... i could imagine some old rich fogies club where they scry on select champions sit around and sip fine mead and wines and bet on the outcome and methods used to overcome various encounters.

Heh.  I have this in my campaign world.  Except it's a tavern for adventurers with a large-screen scrying device.  Some patrons are given crystals that allow them to be scryed upon while they're out adventuring.  A good time is had by all!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 13, 2014, 05:55:47 PM
unless you were the subject of frequent scrying... i could imagine some old rich fogies club where they scry on select champions sit around and sip fine mead and wines and bet on the outcome and methods used to overcome various encounters.

Heh.  I have this in my campaign world.  Except it's a tavern for adventurers with a large-screen scrying device.  Some patrons are given crystals that allow them to be scryed upon while they're out adventuring.  A good time is had by all!

I'm reminded of the movie Rat Race!  Change the racers to adventurers and the challenge from race to *attain adventuring goal*, and it fits right in!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on March 13, 2014, 05:56:45 PM
Isn't that sort of the point of the dragon game Xorvintal?

Except there are stakes between the dragons as well?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 13, 2014, 06:26:00 PM
Monkey Grip + Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound = No penalties w/ weapon one size larger plus a n exotic weapon proficiency.

Nice for gladiators of the harpoon or greatbow  ;)
Bloodbound stuff can be found in the City of Stormreach book, if anyone's curious.
So now you can actually duplicate Powerful Build via feats.  It just takes 3 of them (Jotunbrud, Monkey Grip, Slaughter Master of the Bloodbound).

Edit: Ah, I see from below that I was slightly wrong.  That would be much more difficult to add to an adventuring PC.


unless you were the subject of frequent scrying... i could imagine some old rich fogies club where they scry on select champions sit around and sip fine mead and wines and bet on the outcome and methods used to overcome various encounters.



ALSO: Help a fellow minmaxboards chap (trappedslider) out brainstorming how to surprise and propose to his girl! (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12769.0)

I got sat down to watch The View one time ...  :blah
My eyes glazed over, my mind turned (further) to mush.

But I don't recall the Ladies ever suggesting the way to a Girl's Heart would use:
Monkey Grip , or Slaughter Master, or Scrying, or Bloodbound
... however they would give points for Powerful Build.
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 13, 2014, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: DMG, Page 163: Thuldanin's War Cubes
Any given object or creature has a 1% cumulative chance per 30 days spent on Thuldanin of spontaneously petrifying into stone.

The effect doesn't say if this chance wears off when the person leaves, so banishing someone to this layer of Acheron for a month means they're screwed.

Of course, it also doesn't say when the chance is rolled...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on March 13, 2014, 08:58:23 PM
 :eh
The only thing tricky about that sentence is that the percentage doesn't reset if you leave and return.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 14, 2014, 12:38:59 AM
The Quanak Lizardfolk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20021227b) is the most unbalanced race in the game.

why?

Quote
A quanak's effective character level (ECL) is equal to its class level + 2

this means that any template you add (even -- LA ones) does not change its ECL. Because it specifically says the 'ECL' is +2, not LA. This overrides the standard use of LA (specific over general).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on March 14, 2014, 02:20:45 AM
The Quanak Lizardfolk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20021227b) is the most unbalanced race in the game.

why?

Quote
A quanak's effective character level (ECL) is equal to its class level + 2

this means that any template you add (even -- LA ones) does not change its ECL. Because it specifically says the 'ECL' is +2, not LA. This overrides the standard use of LA (specific over general).

No, that is not true. The material is 3.0, and "ECL is class level +X" is how 3.0 defined what we now refer to as LA, in a singular number combining what 3.5 calls LA and the race's racial HD.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 14, 2014, 03:05:05 AM
The ECL term is still in the glossary of the MM5. There are both ECLs and LAs in 3.0 and 3.5. this is is using 3.5 terms and un-errata'd

but looking more at how the ECL term is written in the MM5, its just a standard ECL, no loophole :'(
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on March 14, 2014, 12:02:19 PM
But ML 12?  That's pretty impressive for a 2 HD critter!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 14, 2014, 12:52:29 PM
If it's 3.0 manifester level, that's much less impressive because you don't get the augments.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 14, 2014, 04:07:12 PM
Quanak's got some play this last year.
Prime32 gets the ball rolling here:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11474.msg209396#msg209396

He also mentions it once on the Duergar thread
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9671.0

Official, borkt  :) and un-converted.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 14, 2014, 06:30:42 PM
Question: How many useful arcane PrCs require ranks in two or more of the following skills?

(click to show/hide)

And how many of those PrCs screw the Sorcerer due to the entry requirements? CArc gave us Dragonic Heritage, which allowed Sorcerers to pick up one of the above skills at the cost of a feat. Not very efficient. RotD expanded the list, but it also gave us this gem:

(click to show/hide)

So, with a little investment in Int and a few manifestations of Psychic Reformation, you can completely sculpt your skill ranks to qualify for those PrCs.

And for the elephant in the room: Using PR to change your Dragonic Heritage choice can arguably change the ranks to cross-class. This doesn't.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 15, 2014, 04:02:55 AM
The Sha'ir can take Mystic Theurge starting 4th level and gains both progressions.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 15, 2014, 06:30:06 AM
The Sha'ir can take Mystic Theurge starting 4th level and gains both progressions.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12747.0
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on March 15, 2014, 07:30:00 PM
The Sha'ir can take Mystic Theurge starting 4th level and gains both progressions.
No.  Bad.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 16, 2014, 09:54:06 PM
The Red Avenger class in Sword and Fist page 34 has an interesting BAB progression.  Basically it's a 3/4 progression, but moved up a level, so it goes 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, and so on.  The Halfling Outrider on page 22 is likewise a bumped up, but is a 1/2 progression.  Thankfully it got updated in CW to have full BAB.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 17, 2014, 12:46:05 AM
The Red Avenger class in Sword and Fist page 34 has an interesting BAB progression.  Basically it's a 3/4 progression, but moved up a level, so it goes 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, and so on.  The Halfling Outrider on page 22 is likewise a bumped up, but is a 1/2 progression.  Thankfully it got updated in CW to have full BAB.

I was actually about to mention that in the thread I started in ask a question, but it seems you beat me to it.  :clap
I am not aware of many classes that progress in BAB strangely, so I am inclined to think it is a typo.
The class seems fantastic for wisdom synergy though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 17, 2014, 02:14:28 AM
@Kelder and Nyghtmare

I agree that it should not be allowed, since its 100% not the intent of the rules, a horrible loophole.

But otherwise I see nothing stopping the class qualifying alone from the PrC.

kind of like Dragonwrought true dragon cheese being against the intent, but is pretty black and white.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 17, 2014, 02:34:23 AM
kind of like Dragonwrought true dragon cheese being against the intent, but is pretty black and white.

You mean other than that whole clear-as-day list of all true dragons that has no mention of DWKs?  Or the part where DWKs do not gain HD from their age categories?  Or how they don't have breath weapons, or ...
Yeah, gonna have to strongly disagree on the part about RAWtarded rule interpretations to try and declare DWKs as true dragons being "black and white".

As for the Sha'ir/Mystic Theurge cheese, it's on par with my TO only interpretation (made in a previous Fun Finds thread, no need to argue it further!) that Maximize Spell and Empower Spell affect spell attack rolls because they're random rolls mentioned right in the spell descriptions.  Again, RAWtarded.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on March 17, 2014, 02:44:12 AM
The Red Avenger class in Sword and Fist page 34 has an interesting BAB progression.  Basically it's a 3/4 progression, but moved up a level, so it goes 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, and so on.  The Halfling Outrider on page 22 is likewise a bumped up, but is a 1/2 progression.  Thankfully it got updated in CW to have full BAB.

Along those same lines, most of the 3/4 BaB PrC from the Mind's Eye articles have only +2 BaB at level 4 instead of +3.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FBT on March 17, 2014, 06:13:57 AM
A variant on the Sha'ir stuff:

Take the Spontaneous Divination ACF as a wizard, and now you both can prepare spells from a spellbook and cast (certain) spells spontaneously. Thus, you qualify for Ultimate Magus. (This part I think is fairly unambiguous. The cheesy part is what comes next.)

By a really permissive reading of the rules, Ultimate Magus would advance your Wizard spellcasting twice, for the same reasons as with the Sha'ir. But this way you get Tier 1 spellcasting double advances, not the Sha'ir's inferior spellcasting, and you get the other perks of  Ultimate Magus.

Of course, neither this nor the Sha'ir trick actually works, I think. And even if it did, it would be to unbearably cheesy for words.

Despite the cheese, it's a fun thought experiment though. And it almost works, if you look at it sideways and squint. What it really boils down to is the lack of a clear definition of what is meant by  an arcane/spontaneous arcane/divine spellcasting class at all. (Which, strangely enough, is a really big oversight to leave undefined.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 17, 2014, 11:45:00 AM
kind of like Dragonwrought true dragon cheese being against the intent, but is pretty black and white.

You mean other than that whole clear-as-day list of all true dragons that has no mention of DWKs?  Or the part where DWKs do not gain HD from their age categories?  Or how they don't have breath weapons, or ...
Yeah, gonna have to strongly disagree on the part about RAWtarded rule interpretations to try and declare DWKs as true dragons being "black and white".

what list? Draconomicon pg144 ? Races of the Dragon pg103 ?

both are missing several true dragons (Drac more than RotDr), unless you don't want to count Mercury, Steel, and Mist Dragons as a true dragons, or the Obsidian or Ectoplasmic Dragons.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 17, 2014, 11:49:16 AM
The Red Avenger class in Sword and Fist page 34 has an interesting BAB progression.  Basically it's a 3/4 progression, but moved up a level, so it goes 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, and so on.  The Halfling Outrider on page 22 is likewise a bumped up, but is a 1/2 progression.  Thankfully it got updated in CW to have full BAB.

Along those same lines, most of the 3/4 BaB PrC from the Mind's Eye articles have only +2 BaB at level 4 instead of +3.
I think all of these are likely mistakes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: sirpercival on March 17, 2014, 12:19:28 PM
kind of like Dragonwrought true dragon cheese being against the intent, but is pretty black and white.

You mean other than that whole clear-as-day list of all true dragons that has no mention of DWKs?  Or the part where DWKs do not gain HD from their age categories?  Or how they don't have breath weapons, or ...
Yeah, gonna have to strongly disagree on the part about RAWtarded rule interpretations to try and declare DWKs as true dragons being "black and white".

what list? Draconomicon pg144 ? Races of the Dragon pg103 ?

both are missing several true dragons (Drac more than RotDr), unless you don't want to count Mercury, Steel, and Mist Dragons as a true dragons, or the Obsidian or Ectoplasmic Dragons.
Can we not do this again? pretty pretty please?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 17, 2014, 12:31:24 PM
Saying it now; if you want to continue the DWK debate, please do so in another thread.

No one's in trouble, just want to pre-empt a massive derailment (as this thread may never recover from it).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 17, 2014, 01:19:22 PM
The Molydeus demon from FC1 gets Trap the Soul as an SLA 1/day.
Remember how SLA's don't require any components?

Quote
Material Component
Before the actual casting of trap the soul, you must procure a gem of at least 1,000 gp value for every Hit Die possessed by the creature to be trapped. If the gem is not valuable enough, it shatters when the entrapment is attempted. (While creatures have no concept of level or Hit Dice as such, the value of the gem needed to trap an individual can be researched. Remember that this value can change over time as creatures gain more Hit Dice.)
Yeah, he doesn't need the expensive gem.  Interestingly, among his listed possessions is 1,000 gp worth of gems.  Every single one of those gems is going to have a trapped soul in it when my PC's face one of these...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 17, 2014, 01:40:39 PM
Won't continue that argument here

the only thing I can think of is the demon needs some kind of gem to trap the souls, they just don't need to be that expensive. You could use a quartz worth 1cp
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 17, 2014, 02:25:24 PM
Won't continue that argument here

the only thing I can think of is the demon needs some kind of gem to trap the souls, they just don't need to be that expensive. You could use a quartz worth 1cp
That's my take on it too.  He's supposed to have a lot of gems on him anyway; I'm just going to say that they ALL have souls trapped in them.  When the PC's have to rescue someone who was kidnapped.... Have fun figuring out which gem holds their friend.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 17, 2014, 02:41:54 PM
The Molydeus demon from FC1 gets Trap the Soul as an SLA 1/day.
Remember how SLA's don't require any components?

Quote
Material Component
Before the actual casting of trap the soul, you must procure a gem of at least 1,000 gp value for every Hit Die possessed by the creature to be trapped. If the gem is not valuable enough, it shatters when the entrapment is attempted. (While creatures have no concept of level or Hit Dice as such, the value of the gem needed to trap an individual can be researched. Remember that this value can change over time as creatures gain more Hit Dice.)
Yeah, he doesn't need the expensive gem.  Interestingly, among his listed possessions is 1,000 gp worth of gems.  Every single one of those gems is going to have a trapped soul in it when my PC's face one of these...

His axe also has a guaranteed 20K gemstone in the hilt.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 17, 2014, 05:38:06 PM
It's almost like ...  ;) ... they didn't know what the crunch and the fluff said.
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 17, 2014, 05:42:14 PM
The Molydeus demon from FC1 gets Trap the Soul as an SLA 1/day.
Remember how SLA's don't require any Material components?
And how Trap the Soul has a Focus Component?
I guess I'm just saying this demon runs around with the souls of failed adventurers. Still cool huh?
fify.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 17, 2014, 06:05:30 PM
Actually, the gem is a material component.  And since material components get annihilated during the casting process, there's no gem left for the soul to get trapped in, so the soul gets released immediately!  Yes, the gem should be a focus component.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: TuggyNE on March 17, 2014, 06:52:47 PM
The Molydeus demon from FC1 gets Trap the Soul as an SLA 1/day.
Remember how SLA's don't require any Material components?
And how Trap the Soul has a Focus Component?
I guess I'm just saying this demon runs around with the souls of failed adventurers. Still cool huh?
fify.

The point is moot, since SLAs don't require focus components either.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Leviathan on March 17, 2014, 07:12:48 PM
Actually, the gem is a material component.  And since material components get annihilated during the casting process, there's no gem left for the soul to get trapped in, so the soul gets released immediately!  Yes, the gem should be a focus component.


Maybe the spell consumes the gem, then creates an identical gem with the creature's soul trapped inside?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 17, 2014, 07:16:49 PM
Either way, Trap the Soul needs serious errata to function.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 17, 2014, 07:49:04 PM
Actually, the gem is a material component.
You're right, it's tagged for the Trigger Object only. You cannot legitimately use Spell Compilation since Material Components are consumed.
The point is moot, since SLAs don't require focus components either.
RC>MM's Glossary.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 17, 2014, 07:57:41 PM
The Molydeus demon from FC1 gets Trap the Soul as an SLA 1/day.
Remember how SLA's don't require any Material components?
And how Trap the Soul has a Focus Component?
I guess I'm just saying this demon runs around with the souls of failed adventurers. Still cool huh?
fify.


Spell-Like abilities don't require foci either.

Edit: aaand I missed the fact that the post I quoted was the last one on the page, and that someone had already pointed this out. Carry on.

Further Edit: 
The point is moot, since SLAs don't require focus components either.
RC>MM's Glossary.

Rules Compendium also says that Spell-Likes don't need foci. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 17, 2014, 08:00:15 PM
8 minutes after I posted and you missed the fact I already addressed it.

I take it you're posting while eating supper again :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 18, 2014, 01:25:10 AM
As others have already stated:
Quote from: RC p. 118
No verbal, somatic, or material components are required to use a spell-like ability, nor does using one require a focus or have an experience point cost.
For completeness:
Quote from: SRD
A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost.

So the spell itself doesn't work right, RAW, or at least not as it was intended to work.  The spell never actually says that the gem the target is trapped in is the same gem as the material component (unless I missed it somewhere).  So RAW, it requires two gems, one with a certain value (based on target HD) that gets consumed, and another of indeterminate value that their soul and body is trapped in, which could just as easily be a 4 gp hunk of agate.  The fact a Molydeus can cast it as an SLA just removes the first one, apparently.

Although RAW the SLA doesn't need the focus component, you can only trigger that version of the spell by having said focus component for the target to pick up.  The Focus isn't required for the SLA, but there is nothing preventing the Molydeus from using one anyway.

Edit: Another interesting quirk - Shades (Sor/Wiz 9) can duplicate any Sor/Wiz Conjuration (summoning) or (creation) spell of 8th level or lower.  Trap the Soul is Conjuration (Summoning).  Shades (by virtue of inheriting much of itself from Shadow Conjuration) only has verbal and somatic components.  The only downside is that the target gets an extra Will save, and if it is successful, then the spell is only 80% likely to function.  The spell would either have to create a gem out of shadow-stuff, or you would have to provide one of indeterminate amount.

Edit 2: Pleasure Devils (FC2) also get Trap the Soul as an SLA, as do Ak'chazar Rakshasas (MM3).  Shadow Giants (FF) get Shades as an SLA.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 18, 2014, 07:58:40 AM
As others have already stated:
Quote from: RC p. 118
No verbal, somatic, or material components are required to use a spell-like ability, nor does using one require a focus or have an experience point cost.
I like the MM's version better now. Focus and XP are directly listed along side the other Component rather than appearing as an additional sentence. Helps old people like me remember things correctly rather than oh the RC removed them from the list.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 21, 2014, 04:28:18 PM
It's true, Familiars are broken!

Quote from: SpC
Warmage (Miniatures Handbook): Expanding the warmage spell list isn’t recommended. The warmage has a limited list of spells to balance its power and adding spells might tip that balance. If you’d like to add to the list anyway, try replacing access to spells rather than simply giving the warmage a wider range of spells to choose from. Of course, when a warmage gains the advanced learning class feature, the evocation spells in this book offer many options.
Known
Code: [Select]
X: Sorcerer (maximum known by the 20th level) / Warmage (obtains full value on spell level access)
C: 9 /  4
1: 5 / 13
2: 5 / 11
3: 4 / 10
4: 4 / 12
5: 4 /  7
6: 3 /  8
7: 3 /  8
8: 3 /  7
9: 3 /  6
If your DM allows full swapping to w/e you want. You obtain more Known Spells, free Sudden Metamagics, and the Warmage's Edge over the Sorcerer to compensate for that over-powered familiar.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 21, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
This lovely feat is from Player's guide to Eberron pg. 151

Shocking Fist [ Warforged ]
(click to show/hide)

I  just KNOW there have to be things you can do with this feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 21, 2014, 10:39:11 PM
This lovely feat is from Player's guide to Eberron pg. 151

Shocking Fist [ Warforged ]
(click to show/hide)

I  just KNOW there have to be things you can do with this feat.

Two points of interaction here

Anything that triggers on you taking damage
Anything that triggers on dealing electricity damage

If you figure out how to heal off electricity (like the mechanatrix does), then you have masochistic healing. Otherwise? not much I can think of.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on March 22, 2014, 12:19:39 AM
You could put it on a Warforged Vigor/Share Pain build and spam some +15d4 electrical slams til your heart's content.  Or use with Stone Power for +5d4 a round.  Or use Devoted Spirit strikes to heal the damage the moment you take it.  And for a Crusader it means always having your BAB in damage delayed for hit bonuses.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 22, 2014, 12:42:10 AM
Shocking Fist [ Warforged ]
Your slam attack can deal a shock.
Prerequisite: Warforged, base attack bonus +3.
Benefit: As a free action, you can channel some of your life force into a slam attack. You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll. When you use this feat, you deal damage to yourself (any amount equal to or less than your base attack bonus). If the attack hits, you deal ld4 points of electricity damage to the target per point of damage you dealt to yourself. For example, if you dealt 3 points of damage to yourself, a successful attack would deal an extra 3d4 points of electricity damage. If the attack misses, the attempt is wasted (but you still take the damage you dealt to yourself).
You can attempt a shocking fist attack any number of times per day, but only once per round.

It's kinda known, although not wide-spread. Turning your entire body into a taser for 20d4 Electricity isn't too shabby, especially for a PsiWar/Crusader. The damage is often easily ignored (min 1, man 80, typically going to do between 2-50 depending on BAB). It's also the only source of Ex energy damage that I'm aware of that doesn't involve Alchemical items, so it's a way to bypass all forms of DR if you want to use AMF as a debuff (although that usually shuts down DR anyway).

The key, however, is the underlined part. Any effect that can raise that damage above your BAB means even more output. The Shared Pain loop can theoretically generate infinite damage with this feat without needing Hostile Empathic Transfer. Of course this requires reading the underlined part as-written, instead of the intent (where only the damage the feat deals matters).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 22, 2014, 01:09:04 AM
Yeah, Shocking Fist on a Warforged Crusader with Stone Power was an easy combo I remember recognizing after I bought PGtE.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on March 22, 2014, 03:32:53 AM
This lovely feat is from Player's guide to Eberron pg. 151

Shocking Fist [ Warforged ]
(click to show/hide)

I  just KNOW there have to be things you can do with this feat.

Two points of interaction here

Anything that triggers on you taking damage
Anything that triggers on dealing electricity damage

If you figure out how to heal off electricity (like the mechanatrix does), then you have masochistic healing. Otherwise? not much I can think of.

Unfortunately, it seems that the type of damage that is dealt to you is untyped so healing off of electricity will not work.
When I first saw the feat I thought of a Gestalt Rouge/ Magus using Vampiric Touch and possibly using The Feral combat training feat to have the slam deal unarmed strike damage. But that's just cause my DM LOVES to combine 3.5 and Pathfinder.
Other than that, good old Duskblade channeling Vampiric touch with Arcane Strilke and Hunters Eye up just for a fist full of dice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 22, 2014, 06:45:05 AM
The healing thing would work by attacking yourself. You're guaranteed to at least break even, and even that is only if you roll all ones.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 22, 2014, 07:27:03 AM
Unfortunately, it seems that the type of damage that is dealt to you is untyped so healing off of electricity will not work.
The healing thing would work by attacking yourself. You're guaranteed to at least break even, and even that is only if you roll all ones.
Indeed. Take 3 damage to hit your self with your Slam damage plus 3d4 Electricity damage.

You can mitigate the Slam damage by choosing to deal nonlethal and taking the Improved Resiliency Feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 22, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that the type of damage that is dealt to you is untyped so healing off of electricity will not work.
The healing thing would work by attacking yourself. You're guaranteed to at least break even, and even that is only if you roll all ones.
Indeed. Take 3 damage to hit your self with your Slam damage plus 3d4 Electricity damage.

You can mitigate the Slam damage by choosing to deal nonlethal and taking the Improved Resiliency Feat.


Or by just doing nonlethal and remembering that every point of healing also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 22, 2014, 02:01:46 PM
Meh, you risk punching your self into the negatives that way and Improved Resiliency is handy :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 22, 2014, 03:50:06 PM
Wait so, less than 1 year later, the Warmage gets
edit ~nerfed from Miniatures Handbook to CArc.


I've found no references to the MH one back at old wotc c.o. 
That's lame.  What was Rong with "those" people.
 :huh
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 22, 2014, 06:15:29 PM
You're post is a little confusing. >.>

Yes the SpC notes Warmage from the Mini's handbook. Complete Arcane was published in November 2004 with what appears to be no changes to it (per D&D tools) and the SpC was published in December 2005. I don't know why the SpC referenced the original printing over the in CAr but they did.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: wotmaniac on March 22, 2014, 06:19:11 PM
I don't know why the SpC referenced the original printing over the in CAr but they did.
Still trying to pimp-out their minis game?  (I'd imagine that it was probably a relatively low seller ..... take every marketing opportunity you can)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 22, 2014, 07:41:24 PM
Yes the SpC notes Warmage from the Mini's handbook. Complete Arcane was published in November 2004 with what appears to be no changes to it (per D&D tools)

There is a single change made, they removed Sleep from the list of 1st lv spells and gave the much less useful Accuracy spell, instead.  Also, neither book actually has the feat Sudden Enlarge printed in it and it's not in their errata, and I don't know of any official source that does have the feat, so it doesn't officially exist!  Which means the Warmage class has been nerfed further than you'd think (it's supposed to be a bonus feat for them)!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 22, 2014, 08:03:12 PM
Sudden Enlarge (http://dndtools.eu/feats/miniatures-handbook--75/sudden-enlarge--2816/) is on page 28 of the Miniatures Handbook.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 22, 2014, 11:04:41 PM
How did I miss it in there?  I was sure I looked for it in that book ...  Well, okay, the feat really does exist, just not in Complete Arcane, where the reprinted Warmage says it should be.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 23, 2014, 06:56:37 PM
Copypasta
When you need to inflate page numbers to sell more products.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on March 23, 2014, 07:43:44 PM
Copypasta
When you need to inflate page numbers to sell more products.

Even more sad considering page count is a BAD thing for most D&D products. They aggressively edit and cull to hit different benchmarks -_-
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 24, 2014, 05:26:49 PM
You're post is a little confusing. >.>

Yes the SpC notes Warmage from the Mini's handbook. Complete Arcane was published in November 2004 with what appears to be no changes to it (per D&D tools) and the SpC was published in December 2005. I don't know why the SpC referenced the original printing over the in CAr but they did.

My bad.

So that trade language is in SpC, and supercedes.
Awesome.  Call it:  Incentive to Play a Warmage.
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on March 24, 2014, 08:33:31 PM
DMG page 144 mentions that Bronze breastplates can be made, trading +1 armor bonus for +1 Max Dex bonus.  Could be handy for characters with class features or feats relating to medium armor, but have decently high Dex mods.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Captnq on March 25, 2014, 11:25:24 AM
DMG page 144 mentions that Bronze breastplates can be made, trading +1 armor bonus for +1 Max Dex bonus.  Could be handy for characters with class features or feats relating to medium armor, but have decently high Dex mods.

Good Eye!

You actually made me increase the version number on my materials file. Actually, you would be better off adding to the Tumbler's breastplate.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on March 25, 2014, 12:00:13 PM
DMG page 144 mentions that Bronze breastplates can be made, trading +1 armor bonus for +1 Max Dex bonus.  Could be handy for characters with class features or feats relating to medium armor, but have decently high Dex mods.

Good Eye!

You actually made me increase the version number on my materials file. Actually, you would be better off adding to the Tumbler's breastplate.
Even better is the fact there does not seem to be any additional price associated with this change.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Dusk Soul on March 25, 2014, 12:54:48 PM
Is there anything that works with medium armor but not with light?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on March 25, 2014, 01:15:56 PM
Is there anything that works with medium armor but not with light?
Certain feats and magic items do.  Don't know about any class features.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on March 25, 2014, 03:12:29 PM
DMG page 144 mentions that Bronze breastplates can be made, trading +1 armor bonus for +1 Max Dex bonus.  Could be handy for characters with class features or feats relating to medium armor, but have decently high Dex mods.
Is this an option with full plate? Due to the Dex requirements on some feats, I've had characters that I'd really like to use this on.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on March 25, 2014, 03:17:54 PM
It only says breastplates can be made that way.  It's not terribly unreasonable to extend it to full plate or half plate, but RAW, it's just the breastplate.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 25, 2014, 04:25:53 PM
Now somebody needs to Awaken the Statue Of Liberty ...  :eh ... hey baby, good thing your Dex is a little higher.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Snowbluff on March 25, 2014, 05:52:58 PM
My bad.

So that trade language is in SpC, and supercedes.
Awesome.  Call it:  Incentive to Play a Warmage.
 :D
The preceding text claims that the rules applicable to similiar classes. This means the rules applies on the same basis (requires DM cooperation, despite it not being advised) to two things:
1) Warmages, even if you claim it's not the same class listed.
2) Dread Necros and Beguilers.

Also, familiars are really good, so it balances it out. Take Obtain Familiar to become uberz.  :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 25, 2014, 06:54:31 PM
3.0 Masters of the Wild's Tamer of Beasts is still available... since it's not the same as Beastmaster

it does rely on the Animal Companion spell a lot
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Dusk Soul on March 25, 2014, 06:58:15 PM
3.0 Masters of the Wild's Tamer of Beasts is still available... since it's not the same as Beastmaster

it does rely on the Animal Companion spell a lot

I think Beastmaster is supposed to be the update, a lot like exotic weapon master is the update to many 3.0 classes, specially considering the whole Animal Companion mechanic got revamped. I guess you could use Charm Animal instead of Animal companion.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 25, 2014, 07:19:37 PM
yeah it was kind of probably meant to

Animal Companion spell turned into the Animal Companion ability
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 27, 2014, 01:50:12 PM
Quote from: Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, pg162
Tharizdun’s Maddening Scream
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Madness 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched <- Watch using this with Fireball :p
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
The target cannot keep himself from screaming, gibbering, and leaping about as though completely mad. This spell worsens the Armor Class of the creature by a –4 penalty, makes Reflex saving throws impossible except on a natural roll of 20, and makes it impossible to use a shield.
Now just Quicken your favorite Spell that just happens to half a Reflex Save...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 27, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
Quote from: Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, pg162
Tharizdun’s Maddening Scream
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Madness 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched <- Watch using this with Fireball :p
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
The target cannot keep himself from screaming, gibbering, and leaping about as though completely mad. This spell worsens the Armor Class of the creature by a –4 penalty, makes Reflex saving throws impossible except on a natural roll of 20, and makes it impossible to use a shield.
Now just Quicken your favorite Spell that just happens to half a Reflex Save...

Updated in LoM, but the bolded parts remain. Reach and Chain this spell to be a real jerk.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 27, 2014, 02:13:07 PM
Updated in LoM, but the bolded parts remain. Reach and Chain this spell to be a real jerk.
Doh. It was reprinted as "Maddening Scream" in LoM, which subsequently got a hit on D&D Tools for the SpC. I should have probably realized I needed to drop the RttToEE's name >.>

All well, same difference. Saveless and (mostly) removes Reflex Saves. It's quite nasty.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Snowbluff on March 27, 2014, 05:31:27 PM
Quote from: Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, pg162
Tharizdun’s Maddening Scream
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Madness 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched <- Watch using this with Fireball :p
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
The target cannot keep himself from screaming, gibbering, and leaping about as though completely mad. This spell worsens the Armor Class of the creature by a –4 penalty, makes Reflex saving throws impossible except on a natural roll of 20, and makes it impossible to use a shield.
Now just Quicken your favorite Spell that just happens to half a Reflex Save...
Wings of Flurry.  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on March 29, 2014, 03:10:29 PM
Ring of the Octopus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040320a) 20' reach for decisive strike monks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 29, 2014, 08:16:21 PM
Ring of the Octopus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040320a) 20' reach for decisive strike monks.

Fuck that, add the Gloves of Man and you can use it with any one-handed weapon in the game! Wear two and use a two-hander!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 31, 2014, 03:46:49 AM
Sorcerers and Wizards do not technically start play with a Familiar.  The Familiar class feature grants the option to summon a familiar, in a 24 hour ritual that costs 100 gp.  Back calculating the Sorcerer starting package equipment value, it looks like he only starts with 50 or so gp. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Hades on March 31, 2014, 05:42:52 AM
Wounderful ^^'

Another reason to better trade the "fragile walking XP drain bag" called "familiar" with some nice ACF.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 31, 2014, 10:31:26 AM
Wounderful ^^'

Another reason to better trade the "fragile walking XP drain bag" called "familiar" with some nice ACF.

Or just hold off on summoning one until you can get an Imp or something.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on March 31, 2014, 06:33:18 PM
primal scholar's  (http://dndtools.eu/classes/primal-scholar/) secret of power + unfettered heroism = recharge arcane magic. Just add bloodlines to regain 14 spell levels per AP.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on April 01, 2014, 12:21:05 AM
Wow.

Even without Bloodlines or Legacy Weapon shenanigans that means you can recover Unfettered Heroism using the AP from Unfettered Heroism for infinite 5th and below spells per day.

That's some terrible R&D proofing there.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Snowbluff on April 01, 2014, 08:51:36 AM
Wounderful ^^'

Another reason to better trade the "fragile walking XP drain bag" called "familiar" with some nice ACF.

Or just hold off on summoning one until you can get an Imp or something.
Or learn how to better utilize one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on April 01, 2014, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, pg162
Tharizdun’s Maddening Scream
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Madness 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched <- Watch using this with Fireball :p
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
The target cannot keep himself from screaming, gibbering, and leaping about as though completely mad. This spell worsens the Armor Class of the creature by a –4 penalty, makes Reflex saving throws impossible except on a natural roll of 20, and makes it impossible to use a shield.
Now just Quicken your favorite Spell that just happens to half a Reflex Save...

Consider also (Otto's) Irresistible Dance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/irresistibleDance.htm). Don't just make them fail Reflex saves, make them unable to do anything and have them provoke AoOs while you're at it. It's a -10 penalty instead of a flat "no", but I think the other benefits are worth it. Plus, it's core so it's harder to say no to.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on April 02, 2014, 09:25:24 PM
From the Dungeon crasher archetype in dungeonscape:

At 6th level, the bonuses from dealing with traps increases to +4, and the bonus to strength  checks to break objects increases to +10. The damage you deal when bull-rushing an opponent into a wall increases to 8d6 points + three times your strength bonus.

So the extra damage from the 6th level of dungeoncrasher only work when bull-rushing into walls specifically, so no to getting creative with what to bull-rush someone into.  :P

The 2nd level bonus would still work though..
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Tohron on April 02, 2014, 10:12:15 PM
From the Dungeon crasher archetype in dungeonscape:

At 6th level, the bonuses from dealing with traps increases to +4, and the bonus to strength  checks to break objects increases to +10. The damage you deal when bull-rushing an opponent into a wall increases to 8d6 points + three times your strength bonus.

So the extra damage from the 6th level of dungeoncrasher only work when bull-rushing into walls specifically, so no to getting creative with what to bull-rush someone into.  :P

Clearly this means they should carry their own wall with them  :cool
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on April 02, 2014, 10:50:17 PM
Kinda depends on how you define "wall." 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 02, 2014, 11:17:29 PM
Kinda depends on how you define "wall."
Get the party wizard to charm a Walking Wall from the Miniatures Handbook.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on April 03, 2014, 10:12:12 AM
From the Dungeon crasher archetype in dungeonscape:

At 6th level, the bonuses from dealing with traps increases to +4, and the bonus to strength  checks to break objects increases to +10. The damage you deal when bull-rushing an opponent into a wall increases to 8d6 points + three times your strength bonus.

So the extra damage from the 6th level of dungeoncrasher only work when bull-rushing into walls specifically, so no to getting creative with what to bull-rush someone into.  :P

The 2nd level bonus would still work though..

Ring of the Forcewall. Solves every lack-of-wall problem you'll ever have.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Tr011 on April 03, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
Not sure if mentioned before...
The Demonwrecker (PrC from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits) gains a class feature in it's arcane variant that allows him to gain a bonus equal to your primary spellcasting ability modifier on your attackrolls and damage rolls for any damage dealing spell that requires an attack roll. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work with split ray/twin spell, but it does in fact work with any sort of damage dealing spells. Spells like Ray of Stupidity can be pretty lethal, imagine you get hit for 1d4+12 int damage...
Also, Repeat Spell might work for this.

Note this is 1/day and only against evil.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on April 03, 2014, 01:56:24 PM
You could put it on top of your typical unarmed gish type of build, with amped up unarmed damage (or nat).
Cast Harm/Heal/Shocking Grasp/Shivering Touch/etc, use a standard attack rather than touch attack, and dump the attack bonus from Demonwrecker into Power Attack.

Or some other PrC that can deliver spells with weapons, or perhaps a spell storing weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on April 03, 2014, 02:22:54 PM
From the Dungeon crasher archetype in dungeonscape:

At 6th level, the bonuses from dealing with traps increases to +4, and the bonus to strength  checks to break objects increases to +10. The damage you deal when bull-rushing an opponent into a wall increases to 8d6 points + three times your strength bonus.

So the extra damage from the 6th level of dungeoncrasher only work when bull-rushing into walls specifically, so no to getting creative with what to bull-rush someone into.  :P

The 2nd level bonus would still work though..

Told this to one of my players for a laugh. He said "what about illusionary walls?"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Arz on April 03, 2014, 02:57:15 PM
Wow.

Even without Bloodlines or Legacy Weapon shenanigans that means you can recover Unfettered Heroism using the AP from Unfettered Heroism for infinite 5th and below spells per day.

That's some terrible R&D proofing there.

Don't forget that unfettered heroism is a 5th level spell.

Oh. And this...

Magical Training effectively doubles the CL of Master Spellthieves. Caveat: Can't be a sorceror or wizard. Not bad for an apprentice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on April 03, 2014, 07:46:29 PM
From the Dungeon crasher archetype in dungeonscape:

At 6th level, the bonuses from dealing with traps increases to +4, and the bonus to strength  checks to break objects increases to +10. The damage you deal when bull-rushing an opponent into a wall increases to 8d6 points + three times your strength bonus.

So the extra damage from the 6th level of dungeoncrasher only work when bull-rushing into walls specifically, so no to getting creative with what to bull-rush someone into.  :P

The 2nd level bonus would still work though..

Told this to one of my players for a laugh. He said "what about illusionary walls?"
What happens if you know the wall is an illusion, but they failed their will save?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 03, 2014, 07:57:04 PM
So the extra damage from the 6th level of dungeoncrasher only work when bull-rushing into walls specifically, so no to getting creative with what to bull-rush someone into.
It isn't the "wall" that's the problem with the combo, but you need Knockback to make it worth while and even then it's just more charging damage anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 12, 2014, 09:57:42 PM
Living Construct appears to be a subtype, what happens when the creature's type changes without losing subtypes?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 12, 2014, 10:25:06 PM
Hmm...

You retain the benefits of the Subtype where they make sense?

I mean, the list of immunities and such that you retain is... impressive.

Which actually might make a Incarnate Construct Warforged stupidly overpowered. I mean, they get:

- No need to eat, sleep, or breath. They can still gain the benefits of consumables.
- Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain.
- No natural healing, and halved benefits from Conjuration (Healing) spells. Though they do get to heal with the Repair foo Damage line.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 12, 2014, 11:05:09 PM
Crazy, right? Just noticed it earlier
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 12, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Actually, I didn't get all of the benefits. It's even crazier.

While they do have an additional drawback (you can't be resurrected), the whole "you can heal from Repair foo Damage spells" thing?

Actually only a part of the actual ability: namely, you can be targeted by spells that affect living creatures as well as constructs.

If you can't break that, you aren't trying hard enough.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 12, 2014, 11:41:56 PM
Woodling adds a third 'type' affected by Humanoid, Construct, and Plant targeting effects

on another note, the Giant Maggot (Underdark) is the only creature I've seen that advances from Small directly to Large
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 13, 2014, 02:07:37 PM
Golem Immunity (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-eberron--10/golem-immunity--4815/) is a sexy, sexy spell.

My favorite iterations are Flesh and Stone.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 14, 2014, 07:11:49 PM
My kitty avatar appreciates the compliment ... Me-  :eh -Ow
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Unbeliever on April 16, 2014, 10:02:16 AM
Golem Immunity (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-eberron--10/golem-immunity--4815/) is a sexy, sexy spell.

My favorite iterations are Flesh and Stone.
Is it just meant as a major power up to warforged and homonculi?  Though granted it's a pretty high level spell.  Do warforged even count as "constructs" or is "living construct" totally different? 

Alternatively, is there an easy way to apply the construct type so that it has a more than just niche application? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 16, 2014, 10:10:30 AM
Is it just meant as a major power up to warforged and homonculi?  Though granted it's a pretty high level spell.  Do warforged even count as "constructs" or is "living construct" totally different?
It appears that, yes, this is basically a big Warforged power up.  Warforged are Constructs, so would be eligible targets.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on April 16, 2014, 05:32:46 PM
The dragonfire adept's Breath Effects can be applied to any breath weapon, not just the one you get as a DFA. Potentially useful for monsters.

Since Breath Effects modify a use of a breath weapon rather than the breath weapon itself, a dragonfire adept/dragon samurai (http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragon-samurai/) (red, brass or gold) gets to stack his breath weapons before applying them, meaning a DFA 10/DS 10 can use Fivefold Breath of Tiamat for 312.5 average damage (25d6+50d8).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 16, 2014, 05:37:18 PM
The dragonfire adept's Breath Effects can be applied to any breath weapon, not just the one you get as a DFA. Potentially useful for monsters.

Since Breath Effects modify a use of a breath weapon rather than the breath weapon itself, a dragonfire adept/dragon samurai (http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragon-samurai/) (red, brass or gold) gets to stack his breath weapons before applying them, meaning a DFA 10/DS 10 can use Fivefold Breath of Tiamat for 312.5 average damage (25d6+50d8).

Except that you need 15 levels of DFA to get the Tiamat breath effect ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 8wGremlin on April 16, 2014, 07:15:46 PM
Create Small Human's from Animals: druid 5 spell

http://dndtools.eu/spells/standing-stone--150/create-faux-human--4974/  (http://dndtools.eu/spells/standing-stone--150/create-faux-human--4974/)

Got to be abusable?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 16, 2014, 07:16:58 PM
The dragonfire adept's Breath Effects can be applied to any breath weapon
Citation needed.

We're not allowed to cross-apply Spellcasting traits (bard 1 / conjurater 1, I ignore light-armor related ASFs with wizard spells and banned bard-based evocation spells!), why should Dragonfire Adapt's Breath Effects be global based?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 16, 2014, 07:22:00 PM
The full text for the Breath Effects is as follows:

Breath Effect: At 2nd, 5th, 10th. 12th, 15th, and 20th level,
you can select one of the breath effects in Table 2–2: Dragonfire
Adept Breath Effects for which you meet the minimum
level prerequisite. These breath effects can alter your breath
weapons damage type or area, or apply a condition to targets
in place of damage. Each rime you use your breath weapon,
you can choose to apply any one breath effect that you know.
The chosen effect either replaces the normal fire damage
dealt by your breath weapon or replaces the standard area of
your breath weapon. Some effects can be applied only to a
cone-shaped breath weapon, and others only to a line-shaped
breath weapon. You can't apply more than one breath effect
to your breath weapon unless the effect specifically states
otherwise. Also, you can't apply the same breath effect to
your breath weapon in two consecutive rounds (though you
still can use your normal fire breath weapon every round).

In context it's referring to only the breath weapon gained from DFA ("your breath weapon").  Taken a bit out of context though, it neither specifies that it must be for a DFA's weapon, nor does it say it can't be for any other breath weapon gained.

And it also has a typo in it with "rime" instead of "time" in the third sentence.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 16, 2014, 07:26:59 PM
In context it's referring to only the breath weapon gained from DFA ("your breath weapon").  Taken a bit out of context though, it neither specifies that it must be for a DFA's weapon, nor does it say it can't be for any other breath weapon gained.
In context is the only context that matters, IE the rules don't say 'no' isn't an excuse to say you can do X.

Precedence was put forth and the FAQ double downs.
Quote
Can a dragonfire adept (DM 24) apply her breath effects to breath weapons other than the breath weapon gained from the dragonfire adept class?
The dragonfire adept section assumes you have only that breath weapon when discussing breath effects. In the Sage’s opinion, you would use the dragonfire adept breath effects only with the breath weapon granted by the dragonfire adept class.

That's three reasons on no, one of them official.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on April 16, 2014, 08:07:05 PM
Regardless, Dragon Samurai is a valid method to boost the damage of the breath weapon, since it explicitly says it can instead increase existing breath weapon damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on April 16, 2014, 08:09:54 PM
Depending on what it means by "same type" it might only increase the damage when you're using certain breath weapon effects.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 16, 2014, 08:17:49 PM
Create Small Human's from Animals: druid 5 spell

http://dndtools.eu/spells/standing-stone--150/create-faux-human--4974/  (http://dndtools.eu/spells/standing-stone--150/create-faux-human--4974/)

Got to be abusable?

Guys.

Guys.

It doesn't specify what the physical ability scores are. That means they default to whatever the character had before-hand...

This is like a bargain-bin Awaken.

Too bad about the location component, though you could possibly badger your DM into letting you visit the place...

Now excuse me, I have a character to build.

EDIT: Double checked my copy of Standing Stones. Holy crap the spell works like I think it works.
EDIT EDIT: Actually, there is no RAW way to get their stats. I'll assume the stats don't change, though. There isn't anything for them to default to otherwise.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 16, 2014, 08:41:01 PM
It doesn't specify what the physical ability scores are.
Annnnnnnnnnd neither does Awaken.

The difference between the two Spells is small, CFH creates Humanoid(human/halfing) with an NPC level and Awaken creates a Magical Beast for 250XP.

If the DM is allowing "Awakened" Animals, there is literately no reason to choose CFH. You're not paying for the XP cost and who wants the NPC level? No, it's one up over Awakened is the fact rabbits bred pretty damn fast and you can turn them into Human Experts. It's the perfect slave force since you can sacrifice them afterwards for even more bonuses and then use those corpses to feed the remaining humans. :D

Brings new light to Jesus feeding the horde of people with two fish don't it?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 16, 2014, 09:19:48 PM
I forgot that Awaken is also a 5th level spell. I misremembered it as 6th.

Still, no XP cost is a nice thing, and, well...

There's another trick that I think works:

1. Take a Tiny animal.
2. Cast Animal Growth on it.
3. Now it is Small, gets a +8 Str, +4 Con, and -2 Dex due to their increased size.
4. Cast CFH on them. Now they are a Medium sized Humanoid.
5. Animal Growth runs out... and they don't shrink. They've been set to Medium. Therefore, I'd argue that they wouldn't lose their physical ability score modifications.

Besides such iffiness, I'm pretty sure there are more easy-to-apply templates that boost Humanoids than Magical Beasts... Lycanthropy, anyone?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 16, 2014, 10:18:39 PM
5. Animal Growth runs out... and they don't shrink. They've been set to Medium. Therefore, I'd argue that they wouldn't lose their physical ability score modifications.
If such fallacies worked, I'd cast Shapechange then Devil's Ego. When Shapechange ends, my type still remains Outsider, ergo I am now a Beholder (Mage). Because if your going to blatantly butcher things, at least aim for the big stuff  :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 16, 2014, 11:45:08 PM
They... aren't the same thing?

Animal Growth grants those ability score bonuses as a factor of your increased size; since you never reduce your size (you are Medium; the effect ends... and you are Medium), you never lose those bonuses.

The reason I feel confident making that argument at all is that CFH is Instantaneous, and thus is a permanent change (that includes setting someone to a new size; again, they can't reduce back to their original size if they are their original size, right?)

Your example of Devil's Ego doesn't share the same property, because none of the benefits and drawbacks of either spell is contingent on your being an Outsider. You being a Beholder is not contingent on something modified by Devil's Ego at all.

Also, I did mention that it was a bit of an iffy argument; it is, however, one I will stand by until given a non-fallacious argument against it.

As soon as you can supply a valid counterargument, I'll concede; however, I'll still point to the fact that you can use Animal Growth to expand your options as to what you can target. Turning your army of bunnies into an army of formerly bunny Were-Sharks is fun times in my book.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 17, 2014, 01:15:24 AM
You happen to be forgetting the final paragraph of Animal Growth, which states that multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.  This means that when Animal Growth wears off, its effects do, too, as well as only getting a single size change between the two spells.  And then CFH's effects take over, and since it mentions no changes to stats due to size, RAW would state that you stay with the original scores.  However, I believe by RAI, you can still adjust things according to the size change chart in MM, page 291.  A small creature changing to medium, for instance, grants +4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, and -1 to the size bonus to attack and AC.  Now, take the standard dog from the MM, apply the creature size changes, and for ability scores you're looking at 17 str, 15 dex, 17 con, 3d6 int, 12 wis, 6+1d3 cha.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 17, 2014, 01:34:02 AM
There's a convincing argument; thanks.

I don't think you get the size adjustments, though; otherwise one of the example NPCs wouldn't have Str 8.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 8wGremlin on April 17, 2014, 01:41:26 AM
More animal abuse...

Worship Bane and get the touch of hate feat, you need to be casting 5 th level divine spells.

The animal gains the beast of xvim Template - which gives it a boost to its natural attacks an increase in its cha +4 and the feed ability: as a bargest as well as other cool features.

Or better still touch the Druid when he uses that spell and they now become your bitch, cus touch of hate makes the unquestioningly obedient

Eagle or Swindlespitter dinosaur?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 17, 2014, 01:52:14 AM
There's a convincing argument; thanks.

I don't think you get the size adjustments, though; otherwise one of the example NPCs wouldn't have Str 8.

Well remember, CFH is a 3.0 spell, so they may not have had the size change chart yet.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 17, 2014, 02:28:53 AM
Hmm...

Beast of Xzim does not change a creature's type. Excellent.

So, start with a Magebred animal, apply Warbeast to it, then tap it lightly with Beast of Xvim. Then turn them into a person with CFH, and have a Lycanthrope (I like to use Weresharks; they are just so... classy) infect them...

Sounds pretty good to me.

Wait, I just thought of something: since it doesn't say otherwise, they retain their movement speeds and subtypes. Who knew Aquaman used to be a fish?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 17, 2014, 08:09:09 AM
They... aren't the same thing?
Just to note, it is the same thing.
(click to show/hide)

You happen to be forgetting the final paragraph of Animal Growth, which states that multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack. ... However, I believe by RAI, you can still adjust things according to the size change chart in MM, page 291.
Correct and negative. You don't get to cast Righteous Might for a +4 Size Bonus to Str, then say the Medium-to-Large table says you further gain another +4 to Str.
Quote
When you grow larger with righteous might, do you also get the –2 penalty to Dexterity for growing from Medium to Large? The spell description does not indicate that, but other descriptions for size increase do.
No. The changes to statistics by size indicated in Table 4–2 in the MM are primarily a guideline for monster creation, rather than hard-and-fast rules. Although many size-change effects mimic the numbers given on that table, each such effect has its own unique properties that don’t necessarily match the table. (The enlarge spell, for example, grants only a +2 bonus to Strength, in contrast to the +8 bonus listed on Table 4–2.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 17, 2014, 01:45:42 PM
Still not the same thing.

Now, if it said "their size increases to Medium", I'd totally agree with you. But no, the crux of my argument (which I have dropped, btw) was that it didn't adjust your size, it set it to something different. The fact that it's set at Medium means you never reduce in size.

Note that I never said that they keep the other benefits of animal growth (which are +4 to saves and DR 10/Magic), because those aren't described as a benefit of their increased size.

Seriously, you are comparing apples to oranges here; the benefits of being a Beholder aren't contingent on your type or anything, while the alterations to ability scores and natural armor are explicitly a result of the increased size. I was just noting that, after Animal Growth wears off, they are still a medium creature (as they were while under the spell), so their size doesn't get reduced, so they arguably don't lose those bonuses to ability scores.

The actual benefit of Animal Growth is +1 Size category, DR 10/Magic, and +4 Resistance bonus to Saves; it isn't my fault that they included text that overrides the normal bonuses for increased size (I think they forgot they had that table when they made the PHB; otherwise, you wouldn't get stuff like this.) CFH over-writes your size; normally, you'd lose the size benefits when you shrink back down to your normal size. However, due to Create Faux Human, you are already your normal size without shrinking, so you can't reduce your size back to your natural size, and you can't lose the benefits.

Still, I agree to drop it permanently if you do. Getting a Medium Humanoid out of a bunny is a pretty good deal in my book even without crazy ability score boosts, because of all the other crazy stuff you can toss on a Humanoid.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FlaminCows on April 17, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
I'd argue that the MM's size modifiers should take effect, because it doesn't make any sense for the new humanoid to have the strength of the bunny it was, but this effect should replace Animal Growth's effect because the creature is no longer the size it was when under the effect of Animal Growth.

So, a Tiny animal increased to Small by Animal Growth would be turned into a Medium humanoid forever by Create Faux Human, which is an Instantaneous effect and only checks for the size of the target when it is cast. The size bonuses put in place by Animal Growth would be lost as soon as Create Faux Human is cast.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 17, 2014, 04:10:17 PM
Flamingcow...

Thanks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 17, 2014, 05:12:57 PM
I'd argue that the MM's size modifiers should take effect, because it doesn't make any sense for the new humanoid to have the strength of the bunny it was,
That's a fallacy of appeal. And a pretty poor appeal at that, see a '10' is the average based off the 3~18 range. Just like the average Str of a Human that doesn't get killed early has an Str score of 4 (-6 for venerable). And believe me, that '4' is too high to be realistic. But anyway, the Human will always carry and hold more than the Bunny due to the sheer size difference, your Strength value only plays half the part in this role. So you're wrong to think a 2~4 range isn't humanly possible and that Tiny/Medium creatures can lift the same amounts due to having identicle Strength scores.

Speaking of, "new human" is a misleading term, for all you know the Turtle was 110 years old. I don't see anything anywhere in CFH that suggests age is altered and said turtle is now subject to a Human's lifespan and Age Categories. Ponder that for a moment.

The size bonuses put in place by Animal Growth would be lost as soon as Create Faux Human is cast.
CFH does not alter physical scores nor bestow Size Bonuses. You're fallacy of pathetic appeal does not change this, period. So no.

Also when a Spell Effect ends, all it's effects end. Not just the ones you want to claim "words" are an excuse to keep. And that is the real hang up. Certain people think Natural Progression grants "Size Bonuses" when they are in fact untyped modifiers(MMI291). Said people also think the static Size Modifier which based on your actual current Size and used in various checks is synonymous with the Size Bonus Type(MiC21) granted by Spells & Magical Effects. These are three entirely different things that behave in three entirely different ways and are used for three entirely different purposes.

Edit - Superscript hurt the eyes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 17, 2014, 06:37:11 PM
One note:

Create Faux Human does not create a Human. It creates a Humanoid that looks identical to a Human.

If it created a Human, it would say it created a Human.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 17, 2014, 06:54:49 PM
One note: Create Faux Human does not create a Human. It creates a Humanoid that looks identical to a Human.
Rereading it, yeah I agree.

You wouldn't gain the Age Categories, but on the same token no Racial Bonus Feat either.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 17, 2014, 07:54:50 PM
A humans extra feat is not a bonus feat it is an 'extra feat' instead; no Alter Self shenanigans (which requires a racial bonus feat).

Gating in Solars is so yesterday. Gating in (Advanced) Great Wyrm Steel Dragons (40HD) instead is what it's all about. If they're advanced, they likely have Epic Spellcasting, if not, they're CL21 anyway (37HD). And even then, you can provide a trade in services; "Can you cast Epic Spells - yes/no"; if no "I can let you, but only if you then proceed to help me, blah blah more in-depth chatter and contract binding than I care about to list".

Get yourself Epic Spellcasting. Have fun.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on April 17, 2014, 08:42:48 PM
Where would Char Op be without shittily written rules?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 17, 2014, 09:02:52 PM
Where it's today?

Poorly written rules only spurs debates, you'll still optimize the crap out of whatever you can :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 17, 2014, 11:12:05 PM
Aw, but the debates are the fun part of the hobby!

Oh, and [http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/light-of-lunia--4368/]Light of Lunia[/url] and the rest of its line are kinda neat, and got a buff in the Spell Compendium.

It's like a weaker version of Produce Flame! Though it is a [Light] spell, so it would work with Radiant Servant of Pelor to be a little better.

I mean, the 3rd level version, Light of Venya, can be used to throw two 6d6 touch attacks against Undead and Evil Outsiders (this damage is reduced to 3d6 against other creatures), which is actually pretty neat if you have something to toss through the ranged touch attack.

I kinda wish that they did additional spells for the higher peaks of Celestia; Light of Venya started adding healing as an option, and I think the higher levels could have some pretty neat additional effects.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 18, 2014, 02:52:14 AM
Looking at the Stronghold Builder's Guide, you can compare the prices of Adamantine, Iron, and Obdurium... Using the prices for walls, you could apply that to non-armor/shield/weapon iron items, giving you a price gp/lb for these items.

Adamantine = 3x iron item price, obdurium = 6x iron price.

so an amazing lock (iron 150gp) would cost 450gp for adamantine and 900gp for obdurium.

any idea what the breaking strength of these vs. their iron counterpart? 2x adamantine? 3x obdurium? Since the hardness is that many times larger, but hp increases 33%/50% for adamantine and 2x/2.33x for obdurium, depending on normal vs. freestanding walls.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 18, 2014, 04:15:56 AM
Adamantine is 5x the price of iron in that book ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 18, 2014, 04:22:54 AM
.... Doh
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 18, 2014, 04:31:18 AM
Also, thanks for the reminder of obdurium.  Now I have added it to my homebrew materials fix (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4250.msg58659#msg58659).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 18, 2014, 03:24:31 PM
Yw :) remember its hardness isn't bypassed by adamantine ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 18, 2014, 10:06:55 PM
Wrong thread
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 19, 2014, 03:06:53 PM

[http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/light-of-lunia--4368/]Light of Lunia[/url]
fix'd
Light of Lunia (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/light-of-lunia--4368/)

 :) ... and a possible target for the Divine Mind Aura: Light And Darkness.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on April 19, 2014, 03:11:14 PM

[http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/light-of-lunia--4368/]Light of Lunia[/url]
fix'd
Light of Lunia (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/light-of-lunia--4368/)

 :) ... and a possible target for the Divine Mind Aura: Light And Darkness.
WTF is going on with the range in that spell? The block at the top lists it as medium, but the text says 30 feet...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 19, 2014, 03:22:39 PM
realmshelps has Medium range, but doesn't have the text.

Ranged Touch Attacks usually have a fixed text range,
not something like Medium.

 :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 19, 2014, 06:39:25 PM
Another example of WotC's stellar proofreading.

The same error was in the Planar Handbook one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 20, 2014, 10:38:22 PM
In my lists, I've found a couple spells that have range, area, and targets  :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 21, 2014, 05:25:56 PM
Triton is near useless as a race, but ...
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/triton.htm

3 outsider rhd + 2 LA , which can be bought-off by level 20.
Summon Nature's Ally 4 with cl 7.

Feels like a decent early entry Druid caster cheese something.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 21, 2014, 10:29:53 PM
Players Guide to Faerun; Arcane Preparation

Quote
Benefi t: Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to
prepare spells you know. (Usually, you do this in order to apply a
metamagic feat to the spell.) Thereafter, you can cast that spell as
a standard action
even if you apply a metamagic feat to the spell
as you cast it. Preparing a spell uses a slot of the appropriate level.
Once the spell is prepared, you can’t use that spell slot for anything
else until you cast the prepared spell.

Standard Action Planar Binding, Augury, etc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 22, 2014, 12:21:49 AM
Apocalypse from the Sky?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 22, 2014, 12:37:03 AM
Genesis?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 22, 2014, 01:31:12 AM
*cough* epic spells *cough*

oh, I'll just develop this spell that reduces the DC by 220, forcing you to cast over the course of an extra 100 days, 10 min... Oops, I just cast that spell as a standard action  :plotting
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lo77o on April 22, 2014, 08:51:24 AM
Players Guide to Faerun; Arcane Preparation

Quote
Benefi t: Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to
prepare spells you know. (Usually, you do this in order to apply a
metamagic feat to the spell.) Thereafter, you can cast that spell as
a standard action
even if you apply a metamagic feat to the spell
as you cast it. Preparing a spell uses a slot of the appropriate level.
Once the spell is prepared, you can’t use that spell slot for anything
else until you cast the prepared spell.

Standard Action Planar Binding, Augury, etc.

Thats fudging brilliant on a summoner.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 22, 2014, 09:27:11 AM
*cough* epic spells *cough*

oh, I'll just develop this spell that reduces the DC by 220, forcing you to cast over the course of an extra 100 days, 10 min... Oops, I just cast that spell as a standard action  :plotting
Epic spells don't take spell slots though do they?
[/quote]
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FlaminCows on April 22, 2014, 11:16:09 AM
Yes they do. EDIT: But not really, see later in this thread. Epic spell slots are not like normal spell slots.

Quote from: Epic Level Handbook, page 72
EPIC SPELLCASTING
Once an epic spell is developed, the caster knows the spell. A developed epic spell becomes an indelible part of the caster and may be prepared without a spellbook (if a wizard is the caster). Characters who cast spells spontaneously, such as sorcerers, can cast a developed epic spell by using any open epic spell slot. Druids, clerics, and similar spellcasters can likewise prepare epic spells using epic spell slots. A spellcaster can prepare or cast any epic spell she knows as many times per day as she has available epic spell slots.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Lo77o on April 22, 2014, 11:20:44 AM
Ohh dear.. looks like its been updated in complete arcana, and the wording is different now.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 22, 2014, 11:24:02 AM
Shame.

But yh, Epic Spell slot =/= spell slot. Same as Epic Fighter Bonus feat =/= fighter bonus feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FlaminCows on April 22, 2014, 11:29:40 AM
While the original wording is hilarious, it is clearly not what the writer meant to say, and that they corrected it is a good thing, rather than a shame. It is a shame that they didn't see the mistake the first time.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 23, 2014, 03:36:23 PM
Players Guide to Faerun; Arcane Preparation

Quote
Benefi t: Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to
prepare spells you know. (Usually, you do this in order to apply a
metamagic feat to the spell.) Thereafter, you can cast that spell as
a standard action
even if you apply a metamagic feat to the spell
as you cast it. Preparing a spell uses a slot of the appropriate level.
Once the spell is prepared, you can’t use that spell slot for anything
else until you cast the prepared spell.

Standard Action Planar Binding, Augury, etc.

(p) - sigh  :-\

Linked Power metapsi can't do this.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Prime32 on April 23, 2014, 07:58:02 PM
You can still do some of that through Arcane Archer, which also has the "standard action" wording.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: snakeman830 on April 23, 2014, 08:03:32 PM
You can still do some of that through Arcane Archer, which also has the "standard action" wording.
Or Anima Mage, which gets any spell at all as an Immediate action 1/day.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 24, 2014, 01:18:30 AM
Dragons of Faerûn mentions epic spell slots under the section 'Epic Spellcasting' on pgs 120-121. Also, in the sidebar on pg 120, the have a term description for epic spell slots.

what part of the epic section in Complete Arcane says epic spell slots are different? I can't find it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on April 24, 2014, 11:20:57 AM
The Arcane Preparation feat was edited / amended, not the bit about epic spell slots.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 24, 2014, 12:03:28 PM
Dragons of Faerûn mentions epic spell slots under the section 'Epic Spellcasting' on pgs 120-121. Also, in the sidebar on pg 120, the have a term description for epic spell slots.

what part of the epic section in Complete Arcane says epic spell slots are different? I can't find it.

An Epic Spell slot is not a spell slot. Arcane Prep. specifies spell slots.

It's the same wording that prevents a Martial Monk from gaining Epic Fighter Bonus Feats. But this is a moot point, anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 24, 2014, 12:30:01 PM
Indeed.

An Epic Spell Slot is not synonymous with Spell Slot. It's a same-name fallacy and easily proved at that.
Quote from: SRD
EPIC SPELL TERMS
Epic Spell: Spells that are different from common spells. Epic spells are usually custom-made. Epic spells do not take up normal spell slots, but instead are gained and used under a completely separate progression.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on April 24, 2014, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: PHB pg 313
spell slot: The “space” in a spellcaster’s mind dedicated to holding a spell of a particular spell level. A spellcaster has enough spell slots to accommodate an entire day’s allotment of spells. Spellcasters who must prepare their spells in advance generally fill their spell slots during the preparation period, though a few slots can be left open for spells prepared later in the day. A spellcaster can always opt to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell, if desired.

Quote from: ELH pg 72
Epic Spell: Spells that are different from common spells. Epic spells are usually custom-made. Epic spells do not take up normal spell slots, but instead are gained and used under a completely separate progression.

Epic Spell Slots:  You must have an available epic spell slot to prepare or cast an epic spell, just as you need a normal spell slot for a nonepic spell.  You don't gain epic spell slots by virtue of your level and class, however.  You get one epic spell slot for every 10 ranks you have in the relevant Knowledge skill (see below). 

Looks to me like even though not every spell slot is an epic spell slot, every epic spell slot is still a spell slot.  A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square and all that. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 24, 2014, 06:06:54 PM
Quote from: Arcane Preparation
Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to prepare spells you know

No, lets just check your quote from the ELH.

Quote
Epic Spell: Spells that are different from common spells. Epic spells are usually custom-made. Epic spells do not take up normal spell slots, but instead are gained and used under a completely separate progression.

Epic Spell Slots:  You must have an available epic spell slot to prepare or cast an epic spell, just as you need a normal spell slot for a nonepic spell.  You don't gain epic spell slots by virtue of your level and class, however.  You get one epic spell slot for every 10 ranks you have in the relevant Knowledge skill (see below). 

Case closed in all senses.

Because

a) The feat has been rewritten to ignore the original abuse from PGtF.
b) Epic Spells are different from normal spells, and need epic spell slots, not spell slots, and neither Epic Spells nor Epic Spell slots were mentioned in the feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 24, 2014, 07:20:40 PM
Moving on from that;

Wind Kin arrows from The Complete Exotic Arms guide ignore the effect of wind, both magical and mundane, including effects designed to stop them. The one thing that always gets thrown around on how to stop archery is Wind Wall, and this near enough explicitly defeats it.

It still requires optimizing to deal damage to defeat enemy DR, and obivously can't deal equivalent uber charger damage, but for a +1 enhancement bonus to arrows, it's not half bad. In fact, must have, when any 5th level character can just shut you down.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Kasz on April 25, 2014, 04:24:32 AM
Moving on from that;

Wind Kin arrows from The Complete Exotic Arms guide ignore the effect of wind, both magical and mundane, including effects designed to stop them. The one thing that always gets thrown around on how to stop archery is Wind Wall, and this near enough explicitly defeats it.

It still requires optimizing to deal damage to defeat enemy DR, and obivously can't deal equivalent uber charger damage, but for a +1 enhancement bonus to arrows, it's not half bad. In fact, must have, when any 5th level character can just shut you down.

Also handy to have when facing air elementals or similar creatures... or druids/DMs that decide today should be a tornado day.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on April 25, 2014, 12:17:35 PM
Moving on from that;

Wind Kin arrows from The Complete Exotic Arms guide ignore the effect of wind, both magical and mundane, including effects designed to stop them. The one thing that always gets thrown around on how to stop archery is Wind Wall, and this near enough explicitly defeats it.

It still requires optimizing to deal damage to defeat enemy DR, and obivously can't deal equivalent uber charger damage, but for a +1 enhancement bonus to arrows, it's not half bad. In fact, must have, when any 5th level character can just shut you down.

Also handy to have when facing air elementals or similar creatures... or druids/DMs that decide today should be a tornado day.

The Book doesn't have the Wizards of the Coast seal in it, but it does say that AEG was licensed by Wizards of the Coast to produce it, so I guess this should actually go in the 2nd party fun finds. Its been a  bit since anyone has posted there so I think it needs the attention, it is quite lonely.  :p

Also, if your DM allows you to take the Brand of the Nine Hell's feat, you can qualify for the Mark  of Nessus feat, Which is quite sexy.

Brand of the Nine Hellshttp://dndtools.eu/feats/fiendish-codex-ii-tyrants-of-the-nine-hells--67/brand-of-the-nine-hells--265/ (http://dndtools.eu/feats/fiendish-codex-ii-tyrants-of-the-nine-hells--67/brand-of-the-nine-hells--265/)
(click to show/hide)

Mark of Nessushttp://dndtools.eu/feats/fiendish-codex-ii-tyrants-of-the-nine-hells--67/mark-of-nessus--1857/ (http://dndtools.eu/feats/fiendish-codex-ii-tyrants-of-the-nine-hells--67/mark-of-nessus--1857/)
(click to show/hide)

Granted the way it is worded, allies have to make a save to affect you as well, but still fun to have.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 25, 2014, 01:24:33 PM
All of the Mark of _____ feats are pretty nice, I have to say:

Mark of Avernus: Holy Shit, 1/Encounter make an attack or use an SLA as an Immediate action, with no restriction of the casting time of the SLA? This is sex on legs for Warlocks; also, any attacks made as part of a readied action get +4 attack and damage, and auto-confirm crits. Synchronicity makes this amazing.

Mark of Cania: This one's well known; stacking +1 to all d20 rolls and -1 to AC each time you miss with an attack or someone succeeds on a save against one of your SLAs... Yep.

Mark of Dis: ... is kinda a disappointment after the awesome of Mark of Avernus; still, +4 to AC or a single save, changed as an immediate action, isn't a bad thing, and the square you start each round in doesn't count as threatened for the purposes of AoOs... If this was not one of these feats, this would be in this thread so hard.

Mark of Maladomini: You stink. Your effluvia is so bad people walking near you have to make a balance check or then make a choice of either stopping their movement or going prone. People have to make a Fort save against being Sickened for 10 rounds for being near you. Sadly, unless your party is comprised mostly of the Undead, they have to make the save as well.

Mark of Malbolge: You have 3 + Con mod tumours growing on your body! As a swift action, you can spend a tumour to do one of the following:
     (A) Get a +10' enhancement bonus to your base land speed.
     (B) Heal 2d6 + HD hp, no cap on the bonus.
     (C) +5' reach with natural weapons for a round.
     (D) Force an adjacent creature to make a save against being Sickened for a round.
The best part? Each tumour regrows 10 rounds after it is used. In other words, infinite out of combat healing!

Mark of Minauros: Whoa Nellie! On a charge, your bonus to attack rolls is +2... with an additional +2 for every 10' you moved as part of the charge. Who needs the ability to apply Power Attack to AC? Less importantly, you get the same "starting square isn't threatened" dealie that Mark of Dis gets you.

Mark of Nessus: Has been covered.

Mark of Phlegethos: Hey! You ever want to be a sadomasochist? Then this feat is for you! Each time you deal or take damage, you gain a pleasure point; you may spend one as a Swift action to get a +4 bonus on your next attack roll, save, ability check, or skill check. All pleasure points go away at the end of the encounter.

Mark of Stygia: The big benefit is immunity to Grease and equivalent spells; beyond that, +4 to attack and damage on icy surfaces and the ability to add up to 2d6 damage to all your attacks for 1 round as a Swift action? Heck, I'd accept any of those (except for the last benefit) as individual feats.

Consensus: Man, Mark of Avernus is so goddamn good. Especially since psionic powers are SLAs. For the less "silly strong" ones, Mark of Nessus, Mark of Phlegethos, and Mark of Malbolge are all pretty damn sexy, and of the rest, the only ones I couldn't see taking are Mark of Dis and Mark of Minauros.

Then again, Dispater's power for Brand of the Nine Hells is AMAZING; immunity to being caught flat-footed and flanking makes up for the weak Mark of Dis feat. Mark of Phlegethos is also pretty amazing if you consider the version of Brand of the Nine Hells you need to take lets you Daze people for 1 round every 1d4 rounds.

Man, why couldn't the Demonic counterpart (Abyss-Bound Soul) be this good? The best option there is summoning a Demon with a CR of half your level for an hour 1/day. The other option are kinda pants...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 25, 2014, 02:07:12 PM
Chosen of Evil is also pretty nice if you are playing a character with a lot of Vile feats; as an immediate action, gain +[# of Vile feats] as a bonus to an attack roll, AC, or a save.

Of the feats that require it, Enemy of Good is kinda nice (+2 to the save DC of any spell or SLA you use against a creature with the Good subtype or who radiates an aura of Good.).

Slave to Evil minimizes damage from Evil spells, and you gain a bonus based off the intensity of the current Elder Evil sign (which come to +2 to saves, +1 to attack and damage, SR 11 + Half Level, and the Impeded Magic trait in an aura 30' around you... all of the above only function against Divine spells or Spellcasters.)

Finally, Master's Will is just silly; as an immediate action, beseech your Elder Evil master for aid. Then roll a d20; if you get an odd result, you get a +8 untyped bonus on one attack, save, or skill check you make in the next round. If you roll even, you take damage equal to your HD.

All of the above are from Elder Evils, which had some pretty good feats.

I mean, who could say no to Evil's Blessing? As a Standard action, get a profane bonus to all saves equal to your Charisma modifier for 5 rounds; if you deal damage to a creature with the Good subtype or who radiates an aura of good, the bonus is doubled for that round. If I was going Paladin hunting, I'd take this feat in a heart-beat.

Apostate gives you a +[1/2 ECL] profane bonus to all saves against Divine spells; however, you can't voluntarily fail a save against Divine spells, and taking the feat breaks the Code of Conduct of any Divine Spellcaster who has one, regardless of alignment.

Abominable Form: Yes, I want the feat that makes everyone with less HD than me have to roll a DC 15 + 2 * The number of Deformity feats I have or be Shaken for Con mod rounds. That doesn't have any limits on how often they have to make the save. Or any limits against stacking. In Elder Evils, there are 7 Deformity feats (strangely enough, the Willing Deformity feats in HoH don't count, because they lack the descriptor; I'd personally allow them to count, but that's just me), for a total possible save DC of 29. Yowch.

Not that the other Deformity feats are necessarily bad either:
Deformity (Eyes): Lets you see Invisible for 1 minute each day.
Deformity (Face): +2 to two skills. This one isn't too good, except for the implicit +2 to save DCs for Abominable form.
Deformity (Gaunt): Makes you into an Elf! More seriously, it gives you +2 Dex and -2 Con. This can be pretty good if you want the extra Dex.
Deformity (Madness): Awesome! It gives you a permanent -4 to your Wisdom score in exchange for immunity to all Mind-Affecting effects. As an immediate action 1/minutes, add half your character level to a single Will save.
    Reflexive Psychosis: Immediate action to get DR 5/- for 1 round, you are Confused for that round.
Deformity (Parasite): As an immediate action, negate a disease or poison affecting you; the next round you only get a Standard action or a Move action, not both.

Hellsworn (http://dndtools.eu/feats/exemplars-of-evil--64/hellsworn--1378/) is pretty niche; however, the Brimstone Caress option is pretty much worth it (constant +1 to the CL of Evil spells and SLAs? 1/Encounter +1 save DC and Corrupt Spell? I'd take it.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 25, 2014, 03:32:04 PM
Mark of Minauros is the key to circular charging.

Deformity (gaunt) is soo powerful on an undead creature!
Deformity (obese) is perfect for a Deep Warden.
Deformity (madness) is one of my favorites from worshipping an Elder Evil.
Deformity (teeth) is great, since it stacks with your normal bite attack, if you have one. I've used it with a were-sewerm's Attach + Multigrab craziness
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 25, 2014, 03:41:03 PM
Mark of Minauros is the key to circular charging.
I'm planning to give that to a specialized Hellwyrm in the early epic levels of my gestalt game.  Charge for 500 feet, get +100 to attack!
I'll probably have to give him Pierce Magical Concealment to have any hope of actually making use of it, though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 25, 2014, 03:42:34 PM
Pre-epic could be a Paragon Shadow Dark Cheetah (2,100ft charging = +4,200 to attack)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 25, 2014, 03:46:38 PM

... A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square and all that.

no No NO NO !!
my kitty avatar now unfriends you, more than you could ever unfriend my kitty avatar.
(pout)
 :fu
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: linklord231 on April 25, 2014, 04:51:55 PM
Pre-epic could be a Paragon Shadow Dark Cheetah (2,100ft charging = +4,200 to attack)

If only you could power attack for more than your BAB. 


... A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square and all that.

no No NO NO !!
my kitty avatar now unfriends you, more than you could ever unfriend my kitty avatar.
(pout)
 :fu


Does your kitty avatar not like parallelograms or something?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 26, 2014, 03:25:03 PM
 :pout ... nor Pentagons disguised as Rectangles or Squares.

I hate having to pull my reading glasses out, only
to determine whether I should roleplay being mad or not.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on April 28, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
:pout ... nor Pentagons disguised as Rectangles or Squares.

I hate having to pull my reading glasses out, only
to determine whether I should roleplay being mad or not.
Thats what finally turned me entirely off 4e. I played with the whole diagonal moves equal straight moves thing, until I realized what that meant. Effectively, in 4e, circles equal squares. Which means that pi = (complicated equation equating r squared with a formula to determine the [variable] distance from the center of a square to it's perimeter). Think about what that does to geometry, let alone physics.

Of course, in 3.5 its not all that much better, as a diagonal movement is still only 2/3 the distance of a straight line (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Eldritch_Lord on April 28, 2014, 03:11:30 PM
Effectively, in 4e, circles equal squares. Which means that pi = (complicated equation equating r squared with a formula to determine the [variable] distance from the center of a square to it's perimeter). Think about what that does to geometry, let alone physics.

It's not complicated at all: A 5-foot-radius "circle" in 4e is a 2x2 grid of 5 foot by 5 foot squares, with a circumference of 40 and an area of 100, so from 2*pi*5 = 40 and pi*5*5 = 100 we know that pi = 4. :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on April 28, 2014, 03:28:48 PM
Square circles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_distance#Circles_in_Taxicab_geometry) are perfectly fine by the mathematical definition of distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_%28mathematics%29).  Can't a game go non euclidean (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-avl7DEJ92fw%2FTqs_8MJDHBI%2FAAAAAAAACe0%2FDxCjpW7Yp9Y%2Fs800%2F20111029-lovecraft_nemec.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdocmadhattan.fieldofscience.com%2F2011%2F10%2Flovecrafts-mathematical-horrors.html&h=481&w=800&tbnid=mUl0smytOhS6QM%3A&zoom=1&docid=7K1t1cyQqPnkEM&ei=eKdeU9XjFIigyAS_-oC4CQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CGMQMygDMAM&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=304&page=1&start=0&ndsp=10) without everyone complaining? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on April 28, 2014, 04:49:30 PM
Effectively, in 4e, circles equal squares. Which means that pi = (complicated equation equating r squared with a formula to determine the [variable] distance from the center of a square to it's perimeter). Think about what that does to geometry, let alone physics.

It's not complicated at all: A 5-foot-radius "circle" in 4e is a 2x2 grid of 5 foot by 5 foot squares, with a circumference of 40 and an area of 100, so from 2*pi*5 = 40 and pi*5*5 = 100 we know that pi = 4. :D

Thats part of the problem. You see, your answer is correct (giving pi for the shortest radii of the square, but while one radius is 5, the diagonal radius is 7.07 (the square root of 50)(See Pythagorean theorem). Or, if we plug it back into the area calculation, tells us that 100=pi*50, or pi=2.

Thus, pi is a range of 2 through 4, with an interesting wave function based on where the degree of the radius is in relation to a designated 0 angle on the square (for simplicity I put a 'short radius' (or five in our case) at the 0 point).

And because its a wave function, the best way to express pi was with a trigometric function, which is where it gets complicated. This is the portion that I've forgotten at some point in the past. It's been a while since I've used more complicated math than arithmetic or plug-and--play algebra.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 28, 2014, 05:24:54 PM
:pout ... nor Pentagons disguised as Rectangles or Squares.

I hate having to pull my reading glasses out, only
to determine whether I should roleplay being mad or not.
Thats what finally turned me entirely off 4e. I played with the whole diagonal moves equal straight moves thing, until I realized what that meant. Effectively, in 4e, circles equal squares. Which means that pi = (complicated equation equating r squared with a formula to determine the [variable] distance from the center of a square to it's perimeter). Think about what that does to geometry, let alone physics.

Of course, in 3.5 its not all that much better, as a diagonal movement is still only 2/3 the distance of a straight line (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point).

(covers multiple ears)
Hear No 4e Evil.
Hear No 4e Evil !!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Leviathan on April 28, 2014, 05:29:35 PM
Square circles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_distance#Circles_in_Taxicab_geometry) are perfectly fine by the mathematical definition of distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_%28mathematics%29).  Can't a game go non euclidean (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-avl7DEJ92fw%2FTqs_8MJDHBI%2FAAAAAAAACe0%2FDxCjpW7Yp9Y%2Fs800%2F20111029-lovecraft_nemec.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdocmadhattan.fieldofscience.com%2F2011%2F10%2Flovecrafts-mathematical-horrors.html&h=481&w=800&tbnid=mUl0smytOhS6QM%3A&zoom=1&docid=7K1t1cyQqPnkEM&ei=eKdeU9XjFIigyAS_-oC4CQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CGMQMygDMAM&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=304&page=1&start=0&ndsp=10) without everyone complaining?

What 4e has is actually the discrete Chebyshev distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chebyshev_distance).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Maat Mons on April 29, 2014, 02:43:23 AM
… but while one radius is 5, the diagonal radius is 7.07 (the square root of 50)(See Pythagorean theorem).

No, no, no.  The Pythagorean theorem only holds in euclidean geometry.  In the kind of geometry we're dealing with, all three sides of that right triangle have length 5. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on April 29, 2014, 10:54:50 AM
… but while one radius is 5, the diagonal radius is 7.07 (the square root of 50)(See Pythagorean theorem).

No, no, no.  The Pythagorean theorem only holds in euclidean geometry.  In the kind of geometry we're dealing with, all three sides of that right triangle have length 5.
Well, that presumes that math still remains constant in a world with non-euclidean geometry (In other words, your assumption is that all circles are squares; my assumption is that all squares are circles)(I know it doesn't really work, but play along for a sec). Isn't it equally plausible that in a world with magic that math isn't constant? That pi has a different value during different circumstances? And couldn't a lack of universal constants (if pi isn't constant, what else isnt? Conservation of Energy? Speed of light in a vacuum?) be why denizens of that universe have access to magic in all its forms?

Featherfall doesn't magically lessen your weight, it just gives an awareness that allows an object to remain in a position where gravitational acceleration and friction won't let it reach speeds that would do damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Amechra on April 29, 2014, 12:03:45 PM
… but while one radius is 5, the diagonal radius is 7.07 (the square root of 50)(See Pythagorean theorem).

No, no, no.  The Pythagorean theorem only holds in euclidean geometry.  In the kind of geometry we're dealing with, all three sides of that right triangle have length 5.
Well, that presumes that math still remains constant in a world with non-euclidean geometry (In other words, your assumption is that all circles are squares; my assumption is that all squares are circles)(I know it doesn't really work, but play along for a sec). Isn't it equally plausible that in a world with magic that math isn't constant? That pi has a different value during different circumstances? And couldn't a lack of universal constants (if pi isn't constant, what else isnt? Conservation of Energy? Speed of light in a vacuum?) be why denizens of that universe have access to magic in all its forms?

Featherfall doesn't magically lessen your weight, it just gives an awareness that allows an object to remain in a position where gravitational acceleration and friction won't let it reach speeds that would do damage.

Sounds like a neat setting concept to me!

Alternatively, welcome to the Far Realms. Please stay in your Prime Material aspect field, because outside right is left and up is purple.

But one side note: We actually live in a non-euclidean geometry. Oh. Yes. Spooky. Thank you curves for ruining geometry forever.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on April 29, 2014, 12:06:47 PM
… but while one radius is 5, the diagonal radius is 7.07 (the square root of 50)(See Pythagorean theorem).

No, no, no.  The Pythagorean theorem only holds in euclidean geometry.  In the kind of geometry we're dealing with, all three sides of that right triangle have length 5.
Well, that presumes that math still remains constant in a world with non-euclidean geometry (In other words, your assumption is that all circles are squares; my assumption is that all squares are circles)(I know it doesn't really work, but play along for a sec). Isn't it equally plausible that in a world with magic that math isn't constant? That pi has a different value during different circumstances? And couldn't a lack of universal constants (if pi isn't constant, what else isnt? Conservation of Energy? Speed of light in a vacuum?) be why denizens of that universe have access to magic in all its forms?

Featherfall doesn't magically lessen your weight, it just gives an awareness that allows an object to remain in a position where gravitational acceleration and friction won't let it reach speeds that would do damage.

Sounds like a neat setting concept to me!

Alternatively, welcome to the Far Realms. Please stay in your Prime Material aspect field, because outside right is left and up is purple.

But one side note: We actually live in a non-euclidean geometry. Oh. Yes. Spooky. Thank you curves for ruining geometry forever.
:clap And I continue to look forward to the day when our theoretical physicists begin figuring out how to replicate things like teleportation and fabrication.. The day comes!

But perhaps its time to re-rail this thread?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on April 29, 2014, 03:38:08 PM
Re-railing! I'm hoping this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#disarm) is a mistake on the SRD though...

Quote
"Note: A defender wearing spiked gauntlets can’t be disarmed. A defender using a weapon attached to a locked gauntlet gets a +10 bonus to resist being disarmed."

Spiked Gauntlets: Protecting your held items better than a locked gauntlet, and still letting you use your hands.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 29, 2014, 03:48:54 PM
Pretty sure they're referring to disarming the spiked gauntlet itself, not other weapons.  But yeah, it's not properly worded to convey that information without context.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on April 29, 2014, 03:52:32 PM
Pretty sure they're referring to disarming the spiked gauntlet itself, not other weapons.  But yeah, it's not properly worded to convey that information without context.
...
...
That makes a lot more sense. :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on April 29, 2014, 04:59:04 PM
Pretty sure they're referring to disarming the spiked gauntlet itself, not other weapons.  But yeah, it's not properly worded to convey that information without context.
...
...
That makes a lot more sense. :banghead
I do like the disarming immunity interpretation though. It won't be the first time that we've stretched a text here.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 29, 2014, 05:25:20 PM
Just watch out for those Non-Euclidian Spiked Gauntlets ... :blush ... those are real killers.


Square circles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_distance#Circles_in_Taxicab_geometry) are perfectly fine by the mathematical definition of distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_%28mathematics%29).  Can't a game go non euclidean (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-avl7DEJ92fw%2FTqs_8MJDHBI%2FAAAAAAAACe0%2FDxCjpW7Yp9Y%2Fs800%2F20111029-lovecraft_nemec.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdocmadhattan.fieldofscience.com%2F2011%2F10%2Flovecrafts-mathematical-horrors.html&h=481&w=800&tbnid=mUl0smytOhS6QM%3A&zoom=1&docid=7K1t1cyQqPnkEM&ei=eKdeU9XjFIigyAS_-oC4CQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CGMQMygDMAM&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=304&page=1&start=0&ndsp=10) without everyone complaining?

What 4e has is actually the discrete Chebyshev distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chebyshev_distance).

(follows link to Chevbyork distance)

Oh lord, please let me forget this.   :hide
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on April 30, 2014, 09:32:10 AM
Swordsage dip with an aptitude weapon to nab both Weapon Focus feats required for High Sword Low Axe (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/high-sword-low-axe--1389/) (it looks like none of the disciplines actually have both a sword an axe that will work with the feat, so you'll have to make one an aptitude weapon). Still, it's a nice feat if you can knock off some of the prereqs, and it's not like a swordsage dip is a bad thing for most builds.

Since High Sword Low Axe only requires Improved Trip, and not explicitly Expertise, we can use some of the alternative routes to picking it up (monk/barbarian variants, etc).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on April 30, 2014, 02:14:59 PM
Aptitude doesn't work to qualify you for High Sword Low Axe. It doesn't give you extra feats, it just lets you apply your existing weapon focus-like feats to the Aptitude weapon. Even if that meant that you count as having the feats for meeting qualifications, which I don't think it does, it still wouldn't work with HSLA because it asks for WF with a whole weapon type, not just that one axe you happen to be wielding right now.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on April 30, 2014, 02:27:49 PM
Aptitude doesn't work to qualify you for High Sword Low Axe. It doesn't give you extra feats, it just lets you apply your existing weapon focus-like feats to the Aptitude weapon. Even if that meant that you count as having the feats for meeting qualifications, which I don't think it does, it still wouldn't work with HSLA because it asks for WF with a whole weapon type, not just that one axe you happen to be wielding right now.
I see what you're saying. Hmm... too bad none of the disciplines have both an axe and a sword from the list of things that work for this feat... I guess you'd at best get one free feat from Swordsage, and still have to actually take the other WF.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: deadkitten on April 30, 2014, 02:34:59 PM
Aptitude doesn't work to qualify you for High Sword Low Axe. It doesn't give you extra feats, it just lets you apply your existing weapon focus-like feats to the Aptitude weapon. Even if that meant that you count as having the feats for meeting qualifications, which I don't think it does, it still wouldn't work with HSLA because it asks for WF with a whole weapon type, not just that one axe you happen to be wielding right now.
I see what you're saying. Hmm... too bad none of the disciplines have both an axe and a sword from the list of things that work for this feat... I guess you'd at best get one free feat from Swordsage, and still have to actually take the other WF.

Aptitude only works on feats and since discipline focus is a class feature, despite it giving you the benefit of weapon focus for weapons associated with a chosen discipline, it does not actually grant the feat itself.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on April 30, 2014, 04:48:01 PM
Which oddly enough would mean that all it does is +1 to Attack, as you cannot then use it to qualify. Hn, RAW's screwy (like a wabbit). I guess the intention was to give WF. At least it stacks with Weapon Focus, so the cost a feat, you gain a whole +2 to attack! (unless that falls under feat stacking rules!). Good grief.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Ithamar on April 30, 2014, 06:22:31 PM
Though in the FAQ it is specifically indicated that it counts as actually having the Weapon Focus feat.  :flutter
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 30, 2014, 09:22:15 PM
With being affected by Baleful Polymorph, do you...
#1 keep your ECL
#2 LA+animal HD

if #2, this makes an Atropal pc have an overall ECL of -35 post Baleful Polymorph.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on April 30, 2014, 11:02:26 PM
With being affected by Baleful Polymorph, do you...
#1 keep your ECL
#2 LA+animal HD

if #2, this makes an Atropal pc have an overall ECL of -35 post Baleful Polymorph.

If #1, then ECL means absolutely nothing. :-P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on April 30, 2014, 11:10:12 PM
Though in the FAQ it is specifically indicated that it counts as actually having the Weapon Focus feat.  :flutter
Woo! :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 30, 2014, 11:22:52 PM
With being affected by Baleful Polymorph, do you...
#1 keep your ECL
#2 LA+animal HD

if #2, this makes an Atropal pc have an overall ECL of -35 post Baleful Polymorph.

If #1, then ECL means absolutely nothing. :-P

true, was looking at some crazy animal-related spell cheese.
like a Gnome Wizard that turns into a Raven, then is awakened w Sudden Empower/Maximize, then Ghost Companion spell.

then you're a Ghost Raven Wizard w 27 Int w ~2 racial HD (due to ignoring the 1 base HD?) + Wizard levels

how would Invisible Spell interact w Baleful Polymorph?  :twitch

it seems like Baleful Polymorph can apply templates to the animal form (ex. Paragon Badger)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on May 01, 2014, 12:37:24 PM
With a DMG to the face.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 01, 2014, 03:40:56 PM
dodges book 1d20 : 12, total 12
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 01, 2014, 04:10:12 PM
You forgot the book is an improvised weapon (-4) and the DM doesn't exercise (-1 or so) ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Gazzien on May 01, 2014, 04:15:32 PM
You forgot the book is an improvised weapon (-4) and the DM doesn't exercise (-1 or so) ;)
One of my DM's would beg to differ... (Weightlifter, and since book would be a thrown weapon... +2 or so instead xP)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: vaz on May 01, 2014, 04:28:09 PM
Flat-footed, though, and unarmoured; unless they come prepared. In which case the DM should roll a Knowledge (Shenanigans) check and be aware that something is about to go down, and prepare a Contingent (Nope) spell in advance.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Keldar on May 02, 2014, 02:38:21 AM
Always have a Contingent (Nope) spell prepared.  Always.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 02, 2014, 03:27:06 AM
Some scariness just happened...

made an awakened Half-Clay Golem Paragon Weasel Factotum 3

194hp, all his stats between 24 and 29, 63 AC and has a Bite +40 melee (1d3+33 plus attach +14 grapple)

all this as an ECL 6 ex-orc barbarian 6

looking at the DMG, I should change him to a Ferret or Hedgehog
---
a hedgehog rolling into a ball doesn't appear to affect its movement?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: altpersona on May 02, 2014, 09:24:14 AM
have you seen Critters (1986)  :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 02, 2014, 10:28:38 AM
Does Gremlins count? :P

we had a couple of the Critters movies at my video store job 10yrs ago
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: nijineko on May 04, 2014, 04:31:03 PM
Some scariness just happened...

made an awakened Half-Clay Golem Paragon Weasel Factotum 3

194hp, all his stats between 24 and 29, 63 AC and has a Bite +40 melee (1d3+33 plus attach +14 grapple)

all this as an ECL 6 ex-orc barbarian 6

looking at the DMG, I should change him to a Ferret or Hedgehog
---
a hedgehog rolling into a ball doesn't appear to affect its movement?

tasmanian devil.

badger.

honey badger.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 04, 2014, 06:07:03 PM
I liked the Attach ability of the weasel and ferret, allows grappling w much bigger foes usable.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 8wGremlin on May 05, 2014, 09:05:18 PM
like a Gnome Wizard that turns into a Raven, then is awakened w Sudden Empower/Maximize, then Ghost Companion spell.

then you're a Ghost Raven Wizard w 27 Int w ~2 racial HD (due to ignoring the 1 base HD?) + Wizard levels

how would Invisible Spell interact w Baleful Polymorph?  :twitch

it seems like Baleful Polymorph can apply templates to the animal form (ex. Paragon Badger)

but the ghost companion spell states that when the spell expires, the ghost creature dies the true death and its soul passes beyond the Veil of Souls.
It can be raised or resurrected before the spell duration expires, of course.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: 8wGremlin on May 05, 2014, 09:08:48 PM
(covers multiple ears)
Hear No 4e Evil.
Hear No 4e Evil !!

does 4e use non-euclidean geometry then?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 06, 2014, 12:48:11 AM
I've recently thought the Garrotes are ridiculously crazy.

how would the locking garrote work with throwing/returning. Does it drag the opponent to you? Or just the garrote, cutting the creatures head off fluffwise.

what about using Graft Weapon to turn it into a natural weapon. Are you still grappling the creature?

a Riverine Locking Gartote can't be cut off
a Stygian Ice Locking Garrote is truly evil
if it triggers every round, a Pandemic Silver Locking Garrote could get ugly

what would a Dragonfang Garrote look like?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Garryl on May 06, 2014, 01:06:44 AM
I've recently thought the Garrotes are ridiculously crazy.

how would the locking garrote work with throwing/returning. Does it drag the opponent to you? Or just the garrote, cutting the creatures head off fluffwise.

It would stay stuck on the creature rather than returning to you. See the sidebar on stopping a returning weapon in ToB near the Bloodstorm Blade section. I don't know enough about garrotes or the materials you've mentioned to address them, but this at least I can address.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 06, 2014, 03:18:58 AM
Thx

the garrote rules are in the Song and Silence pg86

rereading, the grappling question is already answered, you are not considered grappling when using a locking garrote (only)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: FlaminCows on May 06, 2014, 09:29:40 AM
Are the garrotte rules in Dragon Magazine #355 different from the ones in Song of Silence?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 06, 2014, 05:33:11 PM
(covers multiple ears)
Hear No 4e Evil.
Hear No 4e Evil !!

does 4e use non-euclidean geometry then?

The less legit science-y the geometry, the better for D&D as a whole.
However, I have no idea at all about Pre-Euclidean or Non-Euclidean.
I have heard it used (and have used it myself not knowing)
... but would find a real write up to be a good thing.

High Math guy + Medium Philosophy guy + Teaching Calculus to Your Dog guy
=  a mystery of the real world solved.

 :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: Frogman55 on May 06, 2014, 06:27:37 PM
(covers multiple ears)
Hear No 4e Evil.
Hear No 4e Evil !!

does 4e use non-euclidean geometry then?

The less legit science-y the geometry, the better for D&D as a whole.
However, I have no idea at all about Pre-Euclidean or Non-Euclidean.
I have heard it used (and have used it myself not knowing)
... but would find a real write up to be a good thing.

High Math guy + Medium Philosophy guy + Teaching Calculus to Your Dog guy
=  a mystery of the real world solved.

 :)
Euclidean geometry is basically what you learned in school. If pi really equals 3.14159etc., if a stick remains the same length no matter what direction it's pointed at or how fast its moving, then you're dealing with Euclidean geometry. If things get longer, shorter, or slower as they get faster, then its non-euclidean. If a mile in one direction is shorter than a mile in another direction, then its non-euclidean. So DnD's squares are non-euclidean, because they don't match up with circles (things often get odd when you move into three dimensions, too). Einstein's relativity is non-euclidean, because fundamental measuring sticks change as you approach the speed of light.

That help?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 07, 2014, 07:31:13 PM
I need a Baby Aspirin for my kitty avatar's headache.

(or)


When a mile is not a mile, it's D&D or Einstein ... :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v5.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 08, 2014, 05:16:16 PM
Getting pretty close to page 51.

New thread! (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13562)