What feats from 3e or 4e, are powerful enough to convert ?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

And with as little modifications as possible (and not just because I'm lazy).


For instance:

4e Ritual caster feat --- would be weaker than the 5e version, except for guaranteeing the higher level rituals, and lets say some of the 4e rituals too.  Disenchant is slightly better than the Selling Magic Items mini game.  Become a Lich or a Vampire = who doesn't want that. etc

or

3e Chameleon Crafting from Dr#349 --- so long as you craft an item, with a helper, you could use an Off list item of the helpers class.  Kinda a restricted Rogue Thief 13 UMD.   1.5x cost multiple is decent.  Needs refining.


Ideas?

[sambojin]

Practiced Spellcaster.

Requires: Proficiency in Arcana, Religion or Performance. Must be a multiclassed character, with at least three levels in the chosen class that you wish to apply the feat to, and a minimum of four levels in another class.

Choose a class with spellcasting abilities that you currently have at least three character levels in. All spells of the chosen class count as being cast as up to two level slots higher than the spell slot used to cast them. This only counts for actual spells cast, not other spell slot uses (such as use of the Sorcerer's Font of Magic, a Moon Druid's Wildshape Healing or a Paladin's Smite abilities, etc).
----------

Mainly for multiclassing. Super hex on EVERYONE if you want. Nice for a damage boost as well or multitargeting. Only two slot levels higher, rather than +4CL, due to the way slots work in 5e. It doesn't really give the +4DC against saves for most spells, but it still should be +2 for some due to it being cast from a higher pseudo slot.

Edit: I sort of unbroke it a bit, and put a heavy multiclass restriction on it. It's more fitting for 5e power levels, and gives it a mid-point in spell slot power range (one level to apply the feat to is too little, five is too much). Makes MC Rangers and EKs pretty cool at spellcasting as well.
Happily added more versatile skill restrictions due to it only coming online at lvl 7 or 8. Works for more spellcasting classes now, and makes the skill tax fluffier in 5th. Could probably remove it entirely (feats really aren't meant to include any pre-requisites in 5e, but this one's broken without lvl requisites. Probably doesn't need a skill tax as well. But fluff..... ).
Four levels in another class as a restriction, so level 9 spells are right off the table. Can still do very high spell slots though (lvl 11 slots). But it does keep heavy multiclassing relevant spell-wise (which I think was the point of the feat originally).

[Raineh Daze]

Practised Spellcaster. Requires proficiency in Arcana.

Choose a class with spellcasting abilities that you currently have character levels in. All spells of the chosen class count as being cast as up to two level slots higher than normal, up to your maximum character level/2+1.
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Mainly for multiclassing. Super hex on EVERYONE if you want. Nice for a damage boost as well or multitargeting. Only two slot levels higher, rather than +4CL, due to the way slots work in 5e. It doesn't really give the +4DC against saves for most spells, but it still should be +2 for some due to it being cast from a higher pseudo slot.

Needs restrictions to stop single-classed casters cheating the hell out of it.

[sambojin]

Yeah, I'll have to restate the restrictions on max slot level a bit. But you get the jist.

It was super powerful in 3.5e, and is still pretty damn powerful for 5e multiclassing.

Here's the original text excerpt from Complete Divine:
---------
PRACTICED SPELLCASTER  [GENERAL]

 Choose  a  spellcasting  class  that  you  possess.  Your  spells  cast from that class are more powerful. Prerequisite: Spellcraft 4 ranks.

Benefit:  Your  caster  level for the chosen  spellcasting class increases by  +4. This  can’t increase your  caster  level beyond  your  HD. However,  even  if  you can’t benefit  from the full  bonus immediately,  if  you later gain  noncaster-level HD you may be able to apply the rest of the bonus. For example, a human 5th-level cleric/3rd-level fighter who selects this  feat  would increase his cleric  caster  level from  5th to  8th  (since  he  has  8  HD).  If  he  later  gained  a  fighter  level,  he would gain  the remainder of  the bonus and his cleric  caster level would become 9th (since he now has 9 HD). A character with  two or  more  spellcasting classes (such as a bard/sorcerer or  a ranger/druid) must choose which class gains the feat’s effect. This  does  not  affect  your  spells  per  day  or  spells  known. It  only  increases your  caster  level, which would help  you penetrate SR  and increase the duration  and other effects of your  spells.

Special:  You  may  select  this  feat  multiple  times.  Each time you choose it, you must apply it  to  a different spellcasting class.  For instance, a 4th-level cleric/5th-level  wizard who had selected this  feat  twice would cast cleric  spells  as an  8th-level caster  and wizard  spells  as  a 9th-level caster.
-------

So like that divided by 2.

(no harm was intended to WotC's copyright holdings by showing outdated and overpowered excerpts by way of example upon a continuing discussion)

[awaken_D_M_golem]

hmm or perhaps somewhat like Ardent with Practiced Manifester.
Sans any further cheese of course (drat !!).

Wizard 5 / Cleric 1 and the feat,
slots already combine, but probably needs clarifying,
could cast as Cleric 5, lets say some sort of Spells per day restriction.

would cap at Wizard 11 / Cleric 7 and the feat
with both casting 6th level spells.
Wiz 12 / Cle 8 would only get more slots.

Wiz 17 / Cleric 3 and the feat
would have some Cleric 7 stuff
idk what wording works here.

**

3e Leadership, keep the Cha + levels cap.
If you keep the 1/2 exp, the cohort would fall
3 or 4 levels behind during a tier, but would
catch up quickly = too quickly, at 5 11 and 17.

Assign the cohort 1/2 exp, keeps it from being cannon fodder.
Doesn't feel like too much book keeping.
As usual the DM can un-cheese the cohort before it shows up.

No real way to do CR or RHD-ish monsters yet.

[sambojin]

If you wanted practiced manifester, you could do more-or-less what I've got in my edited post, but on a character using spellpoints rather than slots. It'd be absurdly powerful for level 1 and two spells from the class it was applied to (giving you 4/5 spell points worth for every casting).

Here's another thought on a psionic feat that I particularly liked:

------------
Up the Walls.

If you have at least one spell slot unused (or spellpoint, if that system is being used for this character), you may take a concentration check on your turn. If you pass the check, you may use your full movement (including running, dashing or bonus action moves) for the turn to move up any fairly flat vertical surfaces without penalty. You must end your movement on a stable, flat surface that you would normally be able to stand on, or you fall and take the appropriate damage. You may take any actions as normal during this movement.
----------

Monk wall running for everyone! Yay. It's not particularly powerful, but it can make DMs have to rethink basic barriers in the dungeon or wilderness. Is it powerful enough for 5th? Probably not. But it was easy to convert, so that was good.

[Gnomes2169]

Practiced Spellcaster.

Requires: Proficiency in Arcana, Religion or Performance. Must be a multiclassed character, with at least three levels in the chosen class that you wish to apply the feat to, and a minimum of four levels in another class.

Choose a class with spellcasting abilities that you currently have at least three character levels in. All spells of the chosen class count as being cast as up to two level slots higher than the spell slot used to cast them. This only counts for actual spells cast, not other spell slot uses (such as use of the Sorcerer's Font of Magic, a Moon Druid's Wildshape Healing or a Paladin's Smite abilities, etc).

This is way more powerful than the previous 3.5 implementation (which only prevented you from losing caster levels if you multi-class), and way more powerful than any other 5e feat. Even in 3.5, it wasn't a raw +4 CL, it was up to +4 CL as long as it didn't make your caster level higher than your hit dice.

There isn't an easy way to really port practiced spellcaster, but I do know that effectively giving a MC wizard/ cleric the equivalent of 3 level 8 & 9 spells by level 20 definitely breaks the math of the game (even if they don't get wish, the Wizard or Cleric sides could easily still reach level 8 spells with 9th level slots, while getting 3rd level spells from the other side). I would definitely want to see this implemented some other way, because this is quite a bit too powerful. For a warlock/ sorc, they could get 4 level 7 slots/ short rest. Which is sort of insanely powerful.

Oh. Fun fact, since it doesn't cap at level 9, you technically cast level 10 and 11 spells from your level 8 and 9 slots.

Also, since it only referenced spellcasting and only spells use slots, the last sentence is relatively pointless.
Perhaps instead of interacting with the slots directly, you could treat the caster as if they were 2-4 levels higher in the class for spells known/ spells they can prepare? While still a very powerful boon for many classes, it doesn't auto-scale spells in a way that breaks the game's assumed (limited high-level slots) math.

[sambojin]

Still hard to know what's more powerful. A bit of extra damage/multitargeting or tonnes of extra spells. Characters tend to be more spell limited (known/preparable) than damage limited. Level 10/11 slots were actually taken into account on this. But with the limitations on even getting feats with heavy multiclassing instead of pumping major stats (a 16/4 can be powerful with this, but so can 15/5, 14/4/2, 11/4/5 or 13/4/3 builds. Hell, you can do a 14/3/3 if you want), it's probably better for balance than saying "hey! Free spells!".

It can be powerful mid progression, and powerful late. It'd be horribly powerful early, but with the level requirements, it means you actually have cast those spells a heap (or had the chance to).. Enough to be very powerful with them. Even an uber powerful lvl 11 fireball is still just a fireball. Way easier for a DM to plan around than Wish.

I don't know. It's hard to say. I'm leaving it as is for now. No new spells, but powerful ones once you've commited to a class (or multiclass, actually). You'll only get so many feat opportunities or ASIs.

"Re: What feats from 3e or 4e, are powerful enough to convert ?" (to 5e?)

This one.

Edit: actually, I will edit it a bit. Some of that is just silly. "Up to the maximum spell slot level that you could cast." will be added. Still powerful. Very much so. But brings smaller spells with semi-vancian rules into focus, rather than boosting everything even more than normal.

[sambojin]

Practiced Spellcaster.

Requires: Proficiency in Arcana, Religion or Performance. Must be a multiclassed character, with at least three levels in the chosen class that you wish to apply the feat to, and a minimum of four levels in another class.

Choose a class with spellcasting abilities that you currently have at least three character levels in. All spells of the chosen class count as being cast as up to two level slots higher than the spell slot used to cast them, up to a 6th level slot. Only counts for actual spells cast, not other spell slot uses (such as use of the Sorcerer's Font of Magic, a Moon Druid's Wildshape Healing or a Paladin's Smite abilities, etc).
----------

Yes. It still has major flaws. Meh. This one's not easy. Just decided to cap it at 6th. That's probably low enough, and that's the easiest way to do it. 5th level slot cap if it's still too powerful.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

RAI , I get it for Practiced Spellcaster, but rules writing idk wtf.
 
Wizard 19 / Cleric 1 , say it gets 1 vance 2nd level cleric spell known
like the pre-errata Magicial Initiate, and 1 vance 3rd level cleric spell.

It should ballpark with something like this:

3e XPH Expanded Knowledge
add 1 spell known to your list from any class,
up to 1 level lower than your current highest level
only Psi classes can take this more than once
(smidge of tightening)
... what spellcaster builds would dump oddball multiclassing for that one missing spell.


4e Multiclass
bypass the normal Stat requirement(s) for multiclassing
... feels rather versatile, and niche, reduces MAD.

[sambojin]

That would probably be a better way of doing it that is truer to the original.

I tended to just use it in 3.5e as a one-level-of-badass dip choice for a rogue. Cleric (celerity/time or travel) and practiced spellcaster turned you into a tumbling madman. Even better as an UurKrau Illumian, but not really necessary due to the headlights that came along with the racial choice.

5 mins of expeditious retreat (essentially an encounter level spell), +10 movement speed standard and either free improved initiative or freedom of movement 1/day. You'd always get to where you needed to go, then start stabbing the hell out of things. Tumbling or Moving Silently for 35' a round was awesome. Jumping and climbing weren't exactly a problem with 70' movement speed either. You also had the lvl1 cleric list as backup or spot healing when truly required as well.

Pretty good for one level and one feat.

Which is why I don't mind if a 5e version of it seems a bit powerful, because it's still not nearly as bad as the 3.5e version of it. Spells just don't scale as well in 5th, and the restrictions make it mid-campaign and heavily multiclassed anyway, rather than a one level dip power surge.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

3e Natural Spell
you gain the Druid 18 ability early
you must stay majority levels in Druid
to retain this ability
example: Druid 4 / X 3 / Y 3 / Z 3 etc
... might generate cries of borkny, but hey it's coDzilla right?

[sambojin]

Ouch. Definitely powerful enough. Amazingly so. 

[Gnomes2169]

3e Natural Spell
you gain the Druid 18 ability early
you must stay majority levels in Druid
to retain this ability
example: Druid 4 / X 3 / Y 3 / Z 3 etc
... might generate cries of borkny, but hey it's coDzilla right?

Eh... not calling it broken. Calling it unnecessary, because it sort of is given there is a class that grants it already. They seem to go out of their way to avoid having a feat copy the effects of a class power unless it's an item, skill or saving throw proficiency. You can't get a feature for Action Surge, after all, so I'm not sure how I feel about just giving a level 18 druid ability to level 1 variant humans.

A feat like Expanded Knowledge has been suggested already, but I feel like one that would give sorcerers/ warlocks/ bards/ rangers/ eldrich knights and arcane tricksters 2-3 more spells known or clerics/ druids/ wizards/ paladins 2-3 more spells prepared would be  something that would be useful/ fit in.

Expanded knowledge
Requirements: The ability to cast 1st level spells; 13 intelligence, wisdom or charisma

• If you have a class that prepares spells, such as the cleric, druid, paladin or wizard, you may prepare 3 additional spells at the end of a long rest.
• If you have a class that learns spells, such as the arcane trickster, bard, eldrich knight, ranger, sorcerer or warlock, you may learn 3 spells of a level you can cast. You treat these spells as spells known for determining if you can exchange these spells for new ones per your class's spellcasting entry.
• Special: For multiclassed characters with classes that know spells and classes that prepare spells, you may only choose one benefit or the other.

The next thing would be something like Rapid Shot combined with Quick Draw, to make thrown weapons a bit more viable.

Rapid shot

• When you make a ranged attack with a weapon with the thrown property, you may make two additional attacks with thrown weapons as a bonus action.
• You may treat weapons with the thrown property as if they had the ammunition property, allowing you to freely draw additional thrown weapons as part of an attack action.
• You do not have disadvantage on ranged attacks with a thrown weapon when a hostile creature is adjacent to you.
• You may increase your close and long ranged increments with thrown weapons by 15 feet.

[sambojin]

Expanded Knowledge might be a tiny bit too powerful at 3 extra spells, but it could always be dropped to 2 extras if required. At 3 it's almost a gimme feat (it would be my chosen V.human feat for a cleric or druid almost every time. Such versatility all the way through the levelling path!)

Rapid Shot seems fine, although I'd prefer a rename. "Shot" sort of implies firing something from a weapon, not throwing something, but that's probably just me. It's a great feat to make thrown weapons useful again. Combos nicely with some Ranger (Hunter) options too.

[Power]

Let me try fixing that Practiced Spellcaster feat:

Practiced Spellcaster: Calculate your spell slots using the multiclassing rules, then add 4 spellcaster levels, up to a level limit of your character level minus any Pact Magic class levels.

It would probably make Eldritch Knights / Arcane Tricksters / Paladins / Rangers quite happy.

[sambojin]

nevermind

[SorO_Lost]

How about...

Reserves of Strength
By taxing your inner reserves you're able to produce more deadly spells and effects.
When you cast a spell that damages creatures you can choose to take up to 3d6 damage to increase the damage that creature takes by twice the amount dealt to you by this effect. For spells that affect multiple creatures, apply the normal damage bonus to each of them. This damage dealt to you cannot be prevented or reduced (or increased above 3d6) by any means and is always considered lethal.

Shape Soulmeld(lucky dice)
You can shape raw arcana energies into a small semi-transparent die that always appears in your pocket, it's said to affect the luck of anyone able to manifest it.
Choose one of the following
* You gain a +1 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls.
* You gain a +1 luck bonus to saving throws.
* You gain a +1 luck bonus to ability and skill checks.
You can change what you selected immediately after a long rest.

Bind Visage
You have learned the ancient secrets to binding an outsider's power to your own.
You can perform a minor ritual to augment your abilities by drawing on a powerful outsider's magical strength. After a long rest you can spend 15 minutes drawing an arcane circle and reciting the ancient words of power. At the end of which, roll a d20 and add your charisma modifier, you can choose any visage from below that your roll meets or exceeds the DC of.
* Amon, DC 0, grants darkvision.
* Leraje, DC 5, you gain a +5 bonus to stealth checks.
* Renova, DC 10, you gain the effects of a continuous feather fall.
* Aym, DC 15, you can deal 1d12 rust damage to metal objects and creatures with a successful touch attack.
* Haagenti, DC 20, you are immune to polymorph effects cast by others.
* Focalor, DC 25, creates adjective to you have a -1 moral penalty on saves.
* Naberious, DC 30, any time you would take damage the amount of damage you take is reduced by 1.
Creatures using detect magic can see faint outlines of the Visage's power coursing through your body and can make a DC 15 knowledge check to identify it.

[sambojin]

Focalor? Umm. What does it do? Create Adjective would be a cool spell though. Somewhat along the lines of Command, Suggestion or Geas, but changes a creature's outlook or way of acting (and so could be described as such) for the next ten minutes.

Yes, it would be used for horny or slutty with hilarious results. But cheerful, miserable, friendly, fidgety, stuttering, hyperactive, attractive, mean, weak, slow or hung-over could all be useful too. The uses are endless really.

Single command word (or adjective in this case), but with longer duration. So somewhere between Command and Suggestion in terms of power.

[SorO_Lost]

Sounds like scribblenauts. 

That'd be a really fun spell to play with really.