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Meta Board => Retired PbP Games => Archive => [D&D 3.5] Phantasy Star: Start of the Millenium => Topic started by: oslecamo on April 26, 2013, 05:54:33 AM

Title: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 26, 2013, 05:54:33 AM
OOC stuff for the High-End players goes here.

This campaign will start today night or tommorrow at latest.
You can take longer finishing your details, but try to have the rough outlines of your character done until then.

Original Crunch (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=9708.msg157605#msg157605)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 26, 2013, 06:00:02 AM
Well, the mecha now has a fitting appearance. (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=139741)

Bio will be up in about... four hours, give or take. Don't have time to post anything right now.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 26, 2013, 06:07:25 AM
Does this mean all our mecha are vertically squashed to the same size? :0

Roughly yes.

I'm told this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9719.msg157764#msg157764) might be used to make a CAST. It's written by you. Plus it names CASTs specifically. AND repeatedly.  :D According to this one at least, Cure spells work just fine.

That's what suposed to be used for making a CAST yes.

However CASTs and mechas are two diferent things. CASTs are human-sized and autonomous, mechas are massive but need pilots inside to control them. Said pilot can be a CAST.

Quote
Hm, maybe I should use one of the Evangelions as a mecha appearance? Decisions, decisions...
Wait. You didn't select this (http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/sample/sample-ec81c75c846f442077a2fd96a413a072.jpg) yet?

Also. I'm not sure what exactly is included in "self-buff class abilities for fighting" as far as what a character's abilities transferring to the mech goes.
Self-buff means things that grant you temporary bonuses to a stat or does it include permanent benefits, like classes granting immunities to certain types of damage, fast healing, spell resistance, pounce and so on. Might also have missed the part about it but does a mecha benefits from the pilot's magic items?
Yes to all of those except magic items. However gear that increases your own stats affects the mecha as relevant, like a belt of giant strenght/gloves of dexterity increasing the mecha's own Str/Dex score, as they're the same as the pilot's.

Quite nice fluff there BTW.

Does the "mecha weapons always provoke attacks of opportunity for firing while threatened" rule mean that abilities which allow ranged attacks to not provoke do not function for such weapons?
Yes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 26, 2013, 06:17:16 AM
Hmm...I'm a bit confused on what you're saying about what things are shared between the pilot and the mech like gear or class features and whatnot. Can you, like, throw up a quick list of the "self-buff abilities for fighting" things to clarify that? :/

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 26, 2013, 06:24:46 AM
No, I cannot, because that would be enough words to fill a book if not multiple ones. Instead just follow this simple rule:

-Does it apply to your own character's body ( except  size change) and it doesn't affect others? Then it applies to your mecha.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 26, 2013, 06:31:33 AM
No, I cannot, because that would be enough words to fill a book if not multiple ones. Instead just follow this simple rule:

-Does it apply to your own character's body ( except  size change) and it doesn't affect others? Then it applies to your mecha.

Well that still answers that entirely  :D
Thanks.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 26, 2013, 10:16:46 AM
And now to figure what levels to give my Cast with a Chain Sawd.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on April 26, 2013, 10:18:48 AM
Won't it be easier to have separated character threads, one for the High-end, one for the low-end ?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 26, 2013, 01:21:41 PM
Still got a feat to pick, and work out the exact combat stats of my mecha (does it get my natural armour bonus as well?), but this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9779.msg159191#msg159191) is otherwise complete.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 26, 2013, 02:46:06 PM
Is there magic transparency for this campaign?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 26, 2013, 02:48:50 PM
Won't it be easier to have separated character threads, one for the High-end, one for the low-end ?
For me it's easier this way, more used to it.

Still got a feat to pick, and work out the exact combat stats of my mecha (does it get my natural armour bonus as well?), but this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9779.msg159191#msg159191) is otherwise complete.
Tecnically it gets your natural armor bonus. However your mecha already has a bonus of the same kind, and they don't stack.
Also the 1,5 multiplication is before adding agility bonus.

Is there magic transparency for this campaign?
Depends heavily on what you want. That's a massive can of worms. Psionics can be stoped by regular anti-magic measures. Doesn't mean however that psionics can grab whatever they want from the cleric and wizard bags of tricks.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 26, 2013, 03:03:28 PM
Hmm, so it's basically me, but with different equipment. Easy enough, I suspect.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 26, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Mostly in terms of SR working against it or not.

Also, is the Birthday Cake half-golem material's special fast healing stacking with other sources of fast healing? Like the Saint's or the fast healing granted by other materials?
Could there be a martial equivalent of Fewmet/Grisgol? I'd rather use some maneuvers as an Ex ability than cast spells as such. Even though it might be stronger.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 26, 2013, 04:43:23 PM
Mostly in terms of SR working against it or not.
It works.

Also, is the Birthday Cake half-golem material's special fast healing stacking with other sources of fast healing? Like the Saint's or the fast healing granted by other materials?
It doesn't.

Could there be a martial equivalent of Fewmet/Grisgol? I'd rather use some maneuvers as an Ex ability than cast spells as such. Even though it might be stronger.
Option for Half Zodar golem added in the "main" material list.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 27, 2013, 02:00:04 PM
I just noticed this like right now
Quote
Unlike normal martial disciplines, Burning Justice maneuvers do not need to be recharged, but consume energy from the mecha equal to the Maneuver's level x 5 when used. Stances do not cost any energy to maintain, but their cost must be paid when the pilot switches to it.

But do I still have to ready them to use the maneuvers if I'm using Burning Justice through Moon Vanguard?

Into the Danger Zone doesn't have such a clause, so those maneuvers energy costs are simply equal to the maneuvers level then?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 27, 2013, 04:31:45 PM
That was an oversight on my part, added that clause to Into The Danger Zone, thanks for pointing it out!

Moon Vanguard has to both ready maneuvers and pay energy.

Also, IC thread should be up shortly (hopefully).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 27, 2013, 04:47:59 PM
That was an oversight on my part, added that clause to Into The Danger Zone, thanks for pointing it out!

Moon Vanguard has to both ready maneuvers and pay energy.

Also, IC thread should be up shortly (hopefully).

Alright.

And would Burning Justice still cost me x5 energy though if having to ready and expend those maneuvers off Vangaurd?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 27, 2013, 04:52:31 PM
No, clarified it in the Moon Vanguard.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 27, 2013, 08:27:59 PM
Huh, Amaterasu can lift about 16 tons. About five and a half as a light load. Unfortunately, keeping a small room inside a mecha does not seem a good idea. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 27, 2013, 08:57:28 PM
You could keep a couple of elephants in the mecha. Why, you ask? Well you never know when an elephant might come in handy.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 27, 2013, 09:03:05 PM
"Is this a mecha or an apartment?"

"Both."

"How does it fit?"

"How do I go from nearly seventy feet tall to six?"

Elephants smell too much. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 27, 2013, 09:49:28 PM
Hypoallergenic Mexican Hairless Elephants.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 27, 2013, 09:55:22 PM
"What's a Mexican?"
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 27, 2013, 11:07:17 PM
The breeders of hairless elephants, of course.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 28, 2013, 03:32:37 AM
Since Androids are soulless, how does certain class abilities granting a bunch of stuff, including one thing based on Charisma, work?
Case in point: Saint Body changes creature type, Insight bonus to AC equal to her Cha mod and a clause that makes you lose the class abilities if you stop being so nice.
Does it keep everything except the Cha-based effect (Insight bonus to AC equal to her Cha mod) or does it not get the ability at all?

Same thing with:
Miracle of Good granting choices of SLA, all but Bless having save DCs (harmless) based on Charisma.
Aura of Good that gives a bunch of stuff including a double-strength Magic Circle Against Evil whose AC and Save bonus is Cha-based.
Wax golemaic weapon that gives a bunch of stuff including the Cha-based ability to mar a target's appearance.

And would the Obah-Blessed Clay golemaic weapon also give the mecha extra arms since it is kind of a self-buff class effect?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 28, 2013, 04:43:11 AM
Since Androids are soulless, how does certain class abilities granting a bunch of stuff, including one thing based on Charisma, work?
Case in point: Saint Body changes creature type, Insight bonus to AC equal to her Cha mod and a clause that makes you lose the class abilities if you stop being so nice.
Does it keep everything except the Cha-based effect (Insight bonus to AC equal to her Cha mod) or does it not get the ability at all?

Same thing with:
Miracle of Good granting choices of SLA, all but Bless having save DCs (harmless) based on Charisma.
Aura of Good that gives a bunch of stuff including a double-strength Magic Circle Against Evil whose AC and Save bonus is Cha-based.
Wax golemaic weapon that gives a bunch of stuff including the Cha-based ability to mar a target's appearance.
-No Insight bonus to AC, but you get the rest of the stuff.
-Saint SLAs don't have DCs, charisma-based or otherwise, so they work. And yes that means people can resist them whitout need of a save. A Saint doesn't impose blessings on those that don't want it.
-Aura of good doesn't grant the Magic Circle Against Evil, but grants the globe.

And would the Obah-Blessed Clay golemaic weapon also give the mecha extra arms since it is kind of a self-buff class effect?
Yes. But so much arms for so little investment feels too much, so cut it back to just one extra.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 28, 2013, 04:48:56 AM
Alright.

Quote
Yes. But so much arms for so little investment feels too much, so cut it back to just one extra.
One!? How dare you destroy symmetry!
...now to find a one-armed mecha to normalize. And to actually find something very valuable in having a mechas with multiple arms when all its weapons arsenal/in-built weapons don't seem to need any.

Hum... Would a weapon that can change to any size become mecha-sized if wielded through a mecha?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 28, 2013, 05:23:37 AM
No. Mechas can only wield weapons specifically designed for them.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 28, 2013, 07:54:14 AM
Interesting discovery: her run speed is... 64mph. O_o
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 28, 2013, 07:57:46 AM
Interesting discovery: her run speed is... 64mph. O_o

Vroom vroom?
 :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 28, 2013, 08:50:09 AM
Hey, guys, any of you know a Dnd mobile phone equivalent? I know the Sending Stone but it works only between two specific stones 1/day. Trying to figure out a way to get some modern equipment in there without stepping into d20 Modern territory.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on April 28, 2013, 09:33:59 AM
stay in a 120 ft radius around Abraxax, he has Telepathy ;).

EDIT : Osclecamo, can I consider a 1000 gp budget on my WBL enough for a nice full-time 30 something marching-band/orchestra inside the Götterdämmerung, or that would not be enough ?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 28, 2013, 10:01:44 AM
I like how we haven't introduced ourselves.

Hmm. So, who wants to be Amaterasu's friend? :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 28, 2013, 11:21:38 AM
Wait, you mean I could just post my character in, just like that? >.>;;
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 28, 2013, 11:23:12 AM
Wait, you mean I could just post my character in, just like that? >.>;;

What do you mean? XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 28, 2013, 12:02:37 PM
Well, you guys have started the IC thread already and your characters hardly seem ready.  :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 28, 2013, 12:06:10 PM
I have one feat to go, and I know what it is, just not who. :p

... that and I need to actually write out the mecha stats in full, but I'm feeling lazy. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on April 28, 2013, 12:23:44 PM
Well, you guys have started the IC thread already and your characters hardly seem ready.  :P
Mine is ready. Just a question pending on a big luxury expense, nothing vital OOC.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 28, 2013, 12:35:09 PM
stay in a 120 ft radius around Abraxax, he has Telepathy ;).

EDIT : Osclecamo, can I consider a 1000 gp budget on my WBL enough for a nice full-time 30 something marching-band/orchestra inside the Götterdämmerung, or that would not be enough ?

Since you took Floating Palace, you can count it as part of your luxury crew whitout paying extra.

Well, you guys have started the IC thread already and your characters hardly seem ready.  :P
You can flesh out the details as the story advances. One of the basis of this campaign is to try to keep a good rhytm. I had said a week to start since the basis were implemented, and a week had passed.

Just make sure you have all your stats finished up by the time you first have to roll iniative. :p

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 28, 2013, 01:39:08 PM
The barebones for Lieutenant Hugo Lotushand are up.

Next, to figure out my CAST for the Low-End.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 28, 2013, 01:43:38 PM
Oh, wait, he's for this game?

Please at least indicate that somewhere. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 28, 2013, 02:46:53 PM
Quote
stay in a 120 ft radius around Abraxax, he has Telepathy ;).
It is a common belief but the telepathy ability doesn't allow one to grant it to another. You can send thoughts to someone but it doesn't allow them to send some to you.  :-\
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on April 28, 2013, 04:05:52 PM
Quote
stay in a 120 ft radius around Abraxax, he has Telepathy ;).
It is a common belief but the telepathy ability doesn't allow one to grant it to another. You can send thoughts to someone but it doesn't allow them to send some to you.  :-\
Bummer. You are right. We are only able to "communicate" according the SRD. I do understand that you should be able to answer ( communicating both ways), but I've looked in the couatl entry and there they add that people can answer...
no clause like this in the SRD Pseudodragon nor the one I use from Oslecamo Monster Classes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 28, 2013, 04:57:22 PM
I've already counted telepathy as working both ways, and I'll be standing with that for this game.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 28, 2013, 07:28:04 PM
I've got telepathy as well, so Abraxax and Aden can be the party's cell towers.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 28, 2013, 09:11:38 PM
Neat! Will still look for another option seeing how the Abraxax and Aden's telecommunication's (A&AT) phone service network is short.
If Ama speeds a mile away It'd be nice to not have to fly after her to tell her stuff. I know mechas put stuff on mecha scale, you can see, hear and probably speak on mu scale but speaking through a mecha's sound amplifier is old technology.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 28, 2013, 10:51:19 PM
I'm still one feat short since Rashemi Elemental Summoning doesn't work with Travelling Companion and I don't feel like screwing with my spells known sufficiently to make summoning via spells a thing that I can do.

So how about the Miser with Magic feat from Kingdoms of Kalamar?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 29, 2013, 07:17:59 AM
I like how we haven't introduced ourselves.

Hmm. So, who wants to be Amaterasu's friend? :D

I can be your friend :D
You like to go fast. I like to go fast. But I can't go as fast as you yet.
Altho you already ran away....Maybe I could spark a rivalry soon though...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 29, 2013, 07:20:56 AM
I think my aerial speed goes up by something like 10 feet every level. XD

So... are you liable to getting hit in battle, or at least being in melee?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on April 29, 2013, 07:24:03 AM
I think my aerial speed goes up by something like 10 feet every level. XD

So... are you liable to getting hit in battle, or at least being in melee?

I would try so hard to outpace you but prolly always miss that mark xD

Well I AM melee....but I'd like to hope I won't get hit in battle, but I'm entirely screwed if ever denied any dex/dodge.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 29, 2013, 07:27:56 AM
Good, I don't have the second or the third yet, I need to collect them. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 11:05:11 AM
Coincidentally, mine is built on the principle that it wants to be hit. I'm here to take shots.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 29, 2013, 03:54:49 PM
Is 2,200 gp enough for a better-furnished cockpit? Or, at least, some sort of spare seating for people, given how much she can stash in there somehow? :lmao

Which reminds me: do Deceivingly Innocent Form and Monster Lord leave you with larger carrying capacity or not? I can't work out if those're actually size modifiers. :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 06:21:16 PM
Anomander:When you take a construction material for the Half-Golem, you  have to take that same material for the respective golemaic weapon.



I'm still one feat short since Rashemi Elemental Summoning doesn't work with Travelling Companion and I don't feel like screwing with my spells known sufficiently to make summoning via spells a thing that I can do.

So how about the Miser with Magic feat from Kingdoms of Kalamar?

(click to show/hide)
Infinite spells as long as you keep doing easy spellcraft checks? Definetely not.

Is 2,200 gp enough for a better-furnished cockpit? Or, at least, some sort of spare seating for people, given how much she can stash in there somehow? :lmao
Sure you can buy one or a dozen more seats. Doesn't change everything will be crunched up and piled up on top of you when the cocpkit is closed. So if your plan was to try to make it more confortable, I would recommend don't stashing any non-vital stuff.

Which reminds me: do Deceivingly Innocent Form and Monster Lord leave you with larger carrying capacity or not? I can't work out if those're actually size modifiers. :huh

Yes for monster lord, not for DIF.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 29, 2013, 06:27:28 PM
Right.

... I can fit an elephant in there somehow. @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 06:29:32 PM
Meat and skin are soft. Bones can be dislodged.  :smirk
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 29, 2013, 06:32:50 PM
But what if I get a small car? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 06:34:03 PM
I'm pretty sure your character is strong enough to compact it as well.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 06:35:39 PM
Quote
Anomander:When you take a construction material for the Half-Golem, you  have to take that same material for the respective golemaic weapon.
Fusion Golem's Tech Up ability waves the need for them to match.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 29, 2013, 06:45:53 PM
Does this mean there is a hard limit on the volume of the interior of a mecha even if there isn't a hard limit on weight?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
Well, if you add the "per day" clause, then it would be fine yes.

Quote
Anomander:When you take a construction material for the Half-Golem, you  have to take that same material for the respective golemaic weapon.
Fusion Golem's Tech Up ability waves the need for them to match.

My bad. Don't forget to include it into your budget then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 29, 2013, 06:57:07 PM
So... does Sentient + Imprint give a mecha a CON score equal to yours?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 07:19:37 PM
Yes, but again, since the mecha doesn't have actual HD, it would only get to use said Con score for Fort saves.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 07:19:51 PM
I'd be more impressed if I could have a mech benefit from the New Generation class feature and count as an android.  :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
Speaking of which, I saw another strange thing in your character

You pick Divine Flame as your Moon Vanguard discipline.

However you need Fire Immunity for that, and you're only gaining it with Monster of Legend, that in turn demands at least 4 HD.

Actually, Monsters of Legend cannot be constructs either.

Perhaps skip Divine Flame and MoL and instead grab Desire Drive(I'm willing to add it to the list of allowable schools) and another school for Moon Vanguard?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 29, 2013, 07:35:20 PM
Yes, but again, since the mecha doesn't have actual HD, it would only get to use said Con score for Fort saves.
We so need a Bard :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 07:37:19 PM
I get fire immunity from my first construct material from Half Golem.
I become an Outsider by becoming a Saint, which can enter Monster of Legend.

Edit: Oh, if that confused you, the only reason I picked a second source of fire immunity is to remain fire immune if I use the fire immunity conversion of the 3rd level stance.
And also to make sure I remain Fire Immune if I Overheat or get have a change of heart and switch out my fire-based materials with Tech Up.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 29, 2013, 07:40:52 PM
Hey osle, which of the allowed races would you suggest for a Newman?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 07:41:53 PM
^Probably a Newman. Its in the races of  the SRWs d20.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 07:46:39 PM
A male Numan (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9719.msg157764#msg157764) is known as Newman.

I get fire immunity from my first construct material from Half Golem.
I become an Outsider by becoming a Saint, which can enter Monster of Legend.

Edit: Oh, if that confused you, the only reason I picked a second source of fire immunity is to remain fire immune if I use the fire immunity conversion of the 3rd level stance.
I'm afraid it doesn't really work like that. You don't have two "layers" of fire immunity where one stays dormant and is activated when the other is removed. You simply have fire immunity, and if something says it's removed, you lose it.

You also have immunity to [Cold] listed as part of [Zodar] material. :???
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 07:50:14 PM
That's the sneaky part. I lose the fire immunity, but I still have an ability that heals me when I receive fire damage.
Forgot to update that part. The cold conversion is from the colossus stone material.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on April 29, 2013, 08:01:28 PM
Nerfed piscrystal golemaic weapon. Now is normal manifesting time and just a few uses per day.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 29, 2013, 08:12:02 PM
It was too good to last.  :rolleyes
You've sharp eyes.

Edit: Also, what happens to those who already have the ability to go through half DR when they use a rending weapon? They ignore full DR or are they just not stacking?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on April 30, 2013, 04:02:35 AM

(click to show/hide)
That's too damn hilarious not to do, you know ?  :D I have nothing against humor, as shown by the very concept of the character I'm playing.
 I have an approach angle in mind, should that happen...  :smirk
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 30, 2013, 07:07:55 AM
^Probably a Newman. Its in the races of  the SRWs d20.

I feel stupid for being unable to find it. >.<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 30, 2013, 12:49:35 PM
Link (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9719.0)

Second race. Numan.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on April 30, 2013, 04:22:27 PM
Link (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9719.0)

Second race. Numan.

... Huh. Could've sworn that used to read "newtype".
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on April 30, 2013, 04:23:14 PM
It did.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on April 30, 2013, 09:08:58 PM
Suggestion: I was wondering how some technological tools could be acquired seeing how we are in a futuristic setting and all and thought we could perhaps just buy d20 Modern stuff.
I made some research on converting Purchase DCs to an actual market price and this is what came up, if you'd be interested to apply something like it.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 01, 2013, 06:59:07 AM
Edit: Also, what happens to those who already have the ability to go through half DR when they use a rending weapon? They ignore full DR or are they just not stacking?

Not stacking.

Suggestion: I was wondering how some technological tools could be acquired seeing how we are in a futuristic setting and all and thought we could perhaps just buy d20 Modern stuff.
I made some research on converting Purchase DCs to an actual market price and this is what came up, if you'd be interested to apply something like it.
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Not interested. There's already more than enough material mixed in here for me to want to add even more books that I have little idea about their balance. Just refluff magic/mundane items as needed.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 01, 2013, 07:11:06 AM
So, I rearranged the Yatagarasu's stuff a bit, and it's now got less health and DR, yet acquired more armour. It also regenerates. What the hell have I made? :lmao

Can you wield inbuilt weapons two-handed? :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 01, 2013, 08:38:37 AM
No.

Can you list your actual total AC/touch/flat-footed?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 01, 2013, 09:03:31 AM
I have, though. O_o
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 01, 2013, 10:27:11 AM
Sorry, missed the combat stat spoiler.
...
How did you get a size penalty to AC of -7 :psyduck
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 01, 2013, 11:26:52 AM
I got so used to reading monster advancement rules that I added together the size penalties for each step. Will fix that.  :blush
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 01, 2013, 03:18:17 PM
Cool history Oslecamo, thanks.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 01, 2013, 10:52:38 PM
Quote
...Nethereworld Gardener feat, the youkai-forged blades become in-built weapons of your Nano armor
Question: Does this mean that two of the mecha's pre-existing in-built weapons are considered to be youkai-forged blades or are they new in-built weapons? If they are new ones, how do we determine what they are since the youkai-forged blades can be any weapon with which you are proficient. Moon Vanguard is proficient with any weapon gained from the class, so it could technically be anything.


How much would I have to pay for a communication app to speak with everyone and everything that can send/receive data via radio/satellite/other frequency, the equivalent of a personal computer to which I can connect with the Protectora XVI and the android organization database and maybe some form of internet when signal disturbances aren't being a problem. I'd also be interested in acquiring a connection device to connect to computers that could be found to operate them without an available/operational interactive panel.
Maybe also some kind of recharge plug to connect to my android/nanoarmor that could transfer energy to a mecha, if that's even possible.
Robot stuff.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on May 02, 2013, 03:36:22 AM
Damnit, somehow I missed your post, Raineh Daze.  :???

You are very closed to be slapped with white gloves and challenged henceforth for a duel  :P.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 02, 2013, 03:36:59 AM
Quote
...Nethereworld Gardener feat, the youkai-forged blades become in-built weapons of your Nano armor
Question: Does this mean that two of the mecha's pre-existing in-built weapons are considered to be youkai-forged blades or are they new in-built weapons? If they are new ones, how do we determine what they are since the youkai-forged blades can be any weapon with which you are proficient. Moon Vanguard is proficient with any weapon gained from the class, so it could technically be anything.


Well since the Youkai-Forged Blades count as a single weapon in regards to weapon specific feats (Like Weapon Focus), I figured they would also count as a single weapon when replacing an inbuilt weapon.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 02, 2013, 04:08:47 AM
That is assuming that they are replacing one instead of adding two new ones, and assuming that counting as one weapon for feats also insinuates that they count as one weapon for class/racial abilities.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 06:01:08 AM
Rearranged Amaterasu's spirits (I am not terribly sure why I gave her Assault or Focus in the first place).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 02, 2013, 10:53:58 AM
Osle, do you have any monster classes that add Int or Wis?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 02, 2013, 11:17:53 AM
If you go in the index post on the monster classes subforum there's a set of tables that FireInTheSky made which have nearly all the classes with info including total stat mods (and total levels so you know how quickly they come.)

For Int/Wis, there's a few decent ones but most of them don't look human, so they wouldn't be ideal for Hugo (if that's what you want them for.)

Mindflayer is 8 levels with int boosts at every level. Force Golem is 4 levels with the same.

If you do want human looking, Doppelganger is 3 levels with a boost at each level that can boost anything (switch as a swift action.)

For wis, Derro gets +4 over 3 levels. Anthropomorphic Animal can pick an option at lv 5 or 6 that gets it +4.

If you're willing to spend a feat, there's a monster feat that can switch stat boosts from one mental stat to a different one and you could combine that with Sucubus, which gets large cha boosts and is human looking.

EDIT: A few from the template classes which aren't covered by the tables yet,

The Chaos classes give die based bonuses to any stats you want (1d3 for 2 levels, 1d4+1 for 2 more and 1d6+1 for 2 more) and are appropriately sci fi themed (being warhammer 40K inspired)

Paragon can only be taken at lv6 and later but gives +2 to two stats at 2nd and 4th and +2 to three stats at 7th and 9th.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 02, 2013, 11:47:23 AM
I'm not looking to put levels into monster classes (unless they advance wizard casting and synergize well with illusionists). I'm mostly going for Monster Hybrid, the feat.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 12:15:24 PM
SorO, your post is... confusing. Um... what's the touch attack? And grappling Amaterasu? Have you got the pseudodragon 70 feet into the air confused with the huge girl he's talking to? :huh

Though the mecha isn't ordered to step on anyone that moves. Just anything that tries to move or attack it. Sentience = you don't need to get other people to transport it. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 02, 2013, 12:26:00 PM
SorO, your post is... confusing. Um... Have you got the pseudodragon 70 feet into the air confused with the huge girl he's talking to? :huh

Though the mecha isn't ordered to step on anyone that moves. Just anything that tries to move or attack it. Sentience = you don't need to get other people to transport it. :lmao
Huh seventy in the air? Oooh I thought you were seven feet tall. lol, oops. Nothing to see here, move along.
(also fixed the post, they were bad rolls [1,2] anyway)

Also you told it to step on anyone that moved. Freeze frame! :p
Loved the typo on friends too.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 12:36:42 PM
Pfft.

No, I didn't tell it to step on anyone that moved, but I did fix the typo. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 02, 2013, 12:58:57 PM
"Flatten anything that tries to physically move or attack you"

"Flatten anything that tries to physically move, or attack you"

Let's hope Yatagarasu can hear and understand the lack of a comma.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 01:01:55 PM
Given where its stats, feats, and skills come from, I should hope it won't misinterpret her speech patterns. D:
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 02, 2013, 03:58:09 PM
@SorO: If some of your expendable minions followers have Mecha Mook levels, you might want to bring a few along as a vanguard to test every new areas. Also, I pilot of their junk mecha.
If for some reason I almost defeat one I could switch place with him to let him get the killing blow and be promoted. >_>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 04:06:25 PM
I object to the idea of:

A) having an army of disposable mecha on hand (there IS a limit to the amount this ship can carry... and I guess I should point out now that it's supposedly going to have to carry a mecha that's noticeably larger than it is)
B) tossing minions to their deaths every time we reach a new place. I am not playing a sociopath. :/
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 02, 2013, 04:15:21 PM
Its unsettling to be lost in thought thinking and when looking up to start typing, seeing a spider just hanging in the air in front of your face....

Totally lost my train of thought.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 02, 2013, 04:35:19 PM
I'm still working on my followers, I do know my highest is a WF Arty posing as my mechanic.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 02, 2013, 04:40:43 PM
Its unsettling to be lost in thought thinking and when looking up to start typing, seeing a spider just hanging in the air in front of your face....

Totally lost my train of thought.

I call that "random pet time".

I object to the idea of:

A) having an army of disposable mecha on hand (there IS a limit to the amount this ship can carry... and I guess I should point out now that it's supposedly going to have to carry a mecha that's noticeably larger than it is)
B) tossing minions to their deaths every time we reach a new place. I am not playing a sociopath. :/

Ah, but see, these aren't your run-of-the-mill soldiers of fortune without a choice, oh no.

These are badass academy veterans with a 'tude and UNDYING LOYALTY to their captain.

Also, keep in mind that if you feel bad for the mooks, remember that the Death Star supposedly crewed on the upwards of a couple million people, and the Rebels blew it up without so much as giving them a hail and suggesting they evacuate. Soldiers are an expendable lot. And in the eyes of the folk who are commissioning our team, so are we.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 02, 2013, 04:42:39 PM
Seriously, dice bot needs to be more random: 1/2 from before and now 2/12.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 04:45:09 PM
These are badass academy veterans with a 'tude and UNDYING LOYALTY to their captain.

And who spent the past 100 years as a teacher in such an academy? Possibly the same one, even. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 02, 2013, 04:45:59 PM
I haven't really mentioned this up to now, but I would like my character's mecha (that's Aden's Huckbein Boxer) to have had its built in weapons removed for character reasons. Is it possible to do that and would it affect the stats of the mecha besides not having the weapons anymore?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 02, 2013, 05:20:53 PM
Quote
...Nethereworld Gardener feat, the youkai-forged blades become in-built weapons of your Nano armor
Question: Does this mean that two of the mecha's pre-existing in-built weapons are considered to be youkai-forged blades or are they new in-built weapons? If they are new ones, how do we determine what they are since the youkai-forged blades can be any weapon with which you are proficient. Moon Vanguard is proficient with any weapon gained from the class, so it could technically be anything.
-It adds to the mecha's in-built weapons.
-Netherworld Gardener demands you to be proficient with the weapons before choosing them, so Moon Vanguard's clause doesn't work there.

How much would I have to pay for a communication app to speak with everyone and everything that can send/receive data via radio/satellite/other frequency, the equivalent of a personal computer to which I can connect with the Protectora XVI and the android organization database and maybe some form of internet when signal disturbances aren't being a problem.
If such a device existed, the Government and every other known faction would probably start wars for its control. If it fitted inside a mecha, it would be a massive bonus.

As it stands, communication between planets is a bitch, in particular between diferent systems. That's the reason why colony ships get lost and there's no such thing as a true interplanetary empire. There's no reliable way of trading data trough the great expanses of space. Information networks are usually limited to each planet or space station, sometimes shared among a system, never beyond that.

For 56 000 meseta, you can buy yourself a portable device able to send messages (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm) every 10 minutes, but it can still randomly jam when trying to communicate between planets, with chance of sucess quickly decreasing the farther away the sender and receiver's orders are in space.

I'd also be interested in acquiring a connection device to connect to computers that could be found to operate them without an available/operational interactive panel.
Now that's the exact opposite. Adaptator drives come at the cheap price of just 50 meseta to allow you to interact with technology and are a staple among explorers, Hunters, military and anybody who expects to find strange tech.

Notice however that just because you operate them, doesn't means you can understand them. Skill checks may be needed to get most of mysterious computers.

Maybe also some kind of recharge plug to connect to my android/nanoarmor that could transfer energy to a mecha, if that's even possible.
Robot stuff.
That kind of devices only exists in industrial versions, usually fitted inside ships.

I'm not looking to put levels into monster classes (unless they advance wizard casting and synergize well with illusionists). I'm mostly going for Monster Hybrid, the feat.  :p
Ethergaunts (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1360.0) ho! :p

I'm still working on my followers, I do know my highest is a WF Arty posing as my mechanic.
Ah, yeah, I had noticed the artificer cohorts of yours, which reminds me of a somewhat  situational houserule of mine.

If you take any equipment owned/crafted by your followers/cohorts/whatever, they'll riot and you won't get any replacements.


Also, keep in mind that if you feel bad for the mooks, remember that the Death Star supposedly crewed on the upwards of a couple million people, and the Rebels blew it up without so much as giving them a hail and suggesting they evacuate. Soldiers are an expendable lot. And in the eyes of the folk who are commissioning our team, so are we.
Actually, the Hunter's Guild does have a life-insurance program where they'll offer good rewards should you find the remains of other hunters and bring them back to civilization, whereas the Guild itself will pay for the cloning of their minds and bodies.

Chances that you'll get loss of memory, trauma, brainwashing, or simply "waking up" centuries after kicking the bucket have been reduced to whole new low levels thanks to recent advances on technology as well! Hunter's Guild still refuses to disclose the exact numbers, and doesn't comment on the ocasional band of bloodthirsty raiders or space pirates that pops up and looks just like certain  Hunters. :P

I haven't really mentioned this up to now, but I would like my character's mecha (that's Aden's Huckbein Boxer) to have had its built in weapons removed for character reasons. Is it possible to do that and would it affect the stats of the mecha besides not having the weapons anymore?
If you really want you can have the in-built weapons removed, but you won't gain anything from it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 02, 2013, 05:23:48 PM
I am still against having 'toss our weaker allies at things' as a first resort. XD

Quote
If you take any equipment owned/crafted by your followers/cohorts/whatever, they'll riot and you won't get any replacements.

Would they sell things they make to you at a discount, though? :O
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 02, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
Ah, yeah, I had noticed the artificer cohorts of yours, which reminds me of a somewhat  situational houserule of mine.

If you take any equipment owned/crafted by your followers/cohorts/whatever, they'll riot and you won't get any replacements.


Including equipment which they crafted using your WBL? Even if you have given them equal amounts of gold, also from your WBL, to be used for crafting gear that they will then use?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 02, 2013, 05:31:35 PM
Anything that makes me look less like a beetle out of hell who grew arms?

Also, the first clause on losing racial bonuses could seriously screw up spell access for me early on (IF I take monster class levels, it'll be at level 13 and up).

I'd rather keep Hugo human-ish in appearance, with the occasional monstrous trait shining through in times of extreme distress, see...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 02, 2013, 05:52:07 PM
I am still against having 'toss our weaker allies at things' as a first resort. XD

Quote
If you take any equipment owned/crafted by your followers/cohorts/whatever, they'll riot and you won't get any replacements.

Would they sell things they make to you at a discount, though? :O
No.

Ah, yeah, I had noticed the artificer cohorts of yours, which reminds me of a somewhat  situational houserule of mine.

If you take any equipment owned/crafted by your followers/cohorts/whatever, they'll riot and you won't get any replacements.


Including equipment which they crafted using your WBL? Even if you have given them equal amounts of gold, also from your WBL, to be used for crafting gear that they will then use?
Also no. Leaderships is already bloody strong in giving you a powerful minion. Geting price discounts is pushing it too far.

I also don't care if you don't intend to bring your cohort to battle. Using leadership to straight out skyrocket your WBL is also a no.

Speaking of which, your cohort will use Elite Array for stats. Followers use nonelite array. Neither are gestalt.

Anything that makes me look less like a beetle out of hell who grew arms?

Also, the first clause on losing racial bonuses could seriously screw up spell access for me early on (IF I take monster class levels, it'll be at level 13 and up).

I'd rather keep Hugo human-ish in appearance, with the occasional monstrous trait shining through in times of extreme distress, see...
If you grab monster hybrid and monster blood, you get to keep your old racial traits (actually you can't multiclass into another base monster class whitout them anyway).

Considering an hybrid's aspect is up to dicussion, and the ethergaunt is kinda humanoidish, I would be willing for your character to retain mostly an human aspect with just a few traits of "beetle out of hell".
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 02, 2013, 06:05:14 PM
The youkai forged blades would be rather weird then.
They have to be slashing weapons and the proficiencies are only Slam attacks. The Zodar's school proficiency would be the Ancient Temple favoured weapons, which are the youkai forged blades (which means pretty much nothing unless you have other proficiencies) and Plain History gives proficiency with... hum... paper?
There is the android's racial weapon that is a level I Combat Weapon from the Arsenal, which might count for proficiency.
Otherwise the image of a big robot fighting with bigass paper sheets amuses me.  :cool
Edit: Nevermind that. Doesn't have the Zodar material at first level. Not that it could help with the weapons anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 02, 2013, 06:08:14 PM
I'm still working on my followers, I do know my highest is a WF Arty posing as my mechanic.
Ah, yeah, I had noticed the artificer cohorts of yours, which reminds me of a somewhat  situational houserule of mine.
If you take any equipment owned/crafted by your followers/cohorts/whatever, they'll riot and you won't get any replacements.
Also no. Leaderships is already bloody strong in giving you a powerful minion. Geting price discounts is pushing it too far.
lol. I don't take, I barrow for an extended amount of time.

Actually I planned on using his Infusions, repair/disable, & knowledge out of combat. Which shouldn't be too big of a deal given no access to the rather abusive one. I did use PB25 rather than none-elite array through.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 02, 2013, 06:44:06 PM
Anything that makes me look less like a beetle out of hell who grew arms?

Also, the first clause on losing racial bonuses could seriously screw up spell access for me early on (IF I take monster class levels, it'll be at level 13 and up).

I'd rather keep Hugo human-ish in appearance, with the occasional monstrous trait shining through in times of extreme distress, see...
If you grab monster hybrid and monster blood, you get to keep your old racial traits (actually you can't multiclass into another base monster class whitout them anyway).

Considering an hybrid's aspect is up to dicussion, and the ethergaunt is kinda humanoidish, I would be willing for your character to retain mostly an human aspect with just a few traits of "beetle out of hell".

Huh! Good thing I'm playing a newman! =D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 02, 2013, 06:50:11 PM
There is also the Illurien. Quite humanoid but you'd look a bit watery, I think.
Or the Gloom. You'd look even shadier.

Because I forgot:
Quote
For 56 000 meseta, you can buy yourself a portable device able to send messages every 10 minutes, but it can still randomly jam when trying to communicate between planets, with chance of sucess quickly decreasing the farther away the sender and receiver's orders are in space.
Can make space ships travel to interstellar distances - can hardly send a message across own solar system.
Jokes aside, good to know. What about a more local reception? Local signals and radio waves.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 02, 2013, 08:55:41 PM
Illurien and Gloom don't advance casting, though.

Paragon does. Well, it sort of does. You remember the discussion about Paragon and casting from the sunshine and happiness game, right?

The Saint (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9295.msg150074#msg150074) template monster class can also advance casting, though its stat boosts are fairly modest.

Being a God (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7008.0) is another option (one of the salient divine abilities increases casting), though you'd have to get worshippers from somewhere. 

If you felt like becoming a Vampire, that lets you boost any stat you like by a downright scary amount if you spend enough blood charges on it and you can also spend charges to have vampire levels count for casting progression.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 02, 2013, 08:59:11 PM
Except you don't need the monster hybrid feat to get template monster classes. It was about the bonus from the feat itself, with the 'possibility' to perhaps go into a casting monster race.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 02, 2013, 09:10:21 PM
Except you don't need the monster hybrid feat to get template monster classes. It was about the bonus from the feat itself, with the 'possibility' to perhaps go into a casting monster race.

That is indeed the case.

I think I'll take osle's suggestion and pick Ethergaunt for that. When things start going south I'll just have Hugo transform into...

...KAMEN RIDER FEDORA!
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 03, 2013, 04:49:36 AM
Where are you getting the weird shiny armour from? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 03, 2013, 06:49:44 PM
Refluffed NA bonuses?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 03, 2013, 06:51:56 PM
Huh.

I turned mine into a thin layer of plasma/inexplicably hard energy, pretty much. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 03, 2013, 07:37:36 PM
You seem entertained on the IC, so I'll wait until you finish fooling around before making you enter Ragol's atmospheres.

It would also be nice if you have your characters fully polished out when that happens.

Actually I planned on using his Infusions, repair/disable, & knowledge out of combat. Which shouldn't be too big of a deal given no access to the rather abusive one. I did use PB25 rather than none-elite array through.

Now that's ok, altough remember mechas are immune to non-damage effects from non-mechas smaller than them unless they affect an area bigger than the mecha. Even benefical ones.

Jokes aside, good to know. What about a more local reception? Local signals and radio waves.

Depends heavily on the planet. In a place like Parum, you can get 50 meseta devices for easy, almost instantaneous communication with other willing people you have the contact of and are willing plus basic databases (altough the Android Administration can and does jam communications in certain areas to "help keep order" as they see fit).

Planets with more exotic atmospheres and/or less communication infrastructure will demand more expensive devices for worst results.

(click to show/hide)
In a colony ship? 1 meseta each.

Also in case it wasn't obvious, 1 meseta equals 1 gold coin.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 03, 2013, 08:05:31 PM
Ship size: huge.

Biggest mecha: gargantuan.

Hmm.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 03, 2013, 08:06:58 PM
Alright!
The mission being briefed as occurring on Ragol, it would probably have gone to fetch such equipment for the members of the group it met so far for the purpose of emitting signal between the devices across the distance of a small city or so.

Should the youkai forged blades be arsenal I weapons, seeing how those are the only slashing weapons I am proficient with?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 03, 2013, 08:23:27 PM
Ship size: huge.

Biggest mecha: gargantuan.

Hmm.

Do Ship sizes adhere to the same rules as Mecha sizes? Because that wouldn't make any sense at all. Just like how Mecha scale is much larger than normal scale, I thought Ship scale would be much larger than Mecha scale?  :???
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 03, 2013, 08:27:03 PM
Nope, they work on the same scale (and ship needs to dip Super Robot for 4 levels to fit the biggest mecha and anything else... though I'm fairly confident that by that point you should be able to squeeze a comfortable chair into the mecha cockpit), with the ship size ranging from Huge to Colossal. It can fit one mecha of its size, two of a size smaller, four of a size below that, etc.

Though it's probably too small if we have more than four pilots with medium or large mecha anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 03, 2013, 08:31:19 PM
Should the youkai forged blades be arsenal I weapons, seeing how those are the only slashing weapons I am proficient with?
Yes.

Ship size: huge.

Biggest mecha: gargantuan.

Hmm.
That would be correct. The ship would need to start at least at colossal mecha size to be able to fit that.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 03, 2013, 08:34:36 PM
Have the ship ride the mecha. Problem solved.  :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 03, 2013, 09:12:49 PM
Nope, they work on the same scale (and ship needs to dip Super Robot for 4 levels to fit the biggest mecha and anything else... though I'm fairly confident that by that point you should be able to squeeze a comfortable chair into the mecha cockpit), with the ship size ranging from Huge to Colossal. It can fit one mecha of its size, two of a size smaller, four of a size below that, etc.

Though it's probably too small if we have more than four pilots with medium or large mecha anyway.

Huh. Well I guess 16 medium sized mechas is a decent number for Colassal. For something called a massive mobile base :/
I guess I'm just picturing, like, Star Wars sized battleships :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 03, 2013, 09:24:56 PM
Seems small to me, too, but it's most likely a compromise to make it playable.

Because I haven't posted it in this discussion, yet. (http://vimeo.com/58406924) Why, yes, I do like this scene. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 04, 2013, 02:10:40 AM
(click to show/hide)
In a colony ship? 1 meseta each.

Also in case it wasn't obvious, 1 meseta equals 1 gold coin.

I didn't necessarily buy it on the colony ship, but 1gp is fine.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2013, 01:47:33 PM
Nope, they work on the same scale (and ship needs to dip Super Robot for 4 levels to fit the biggest mecha and anything else... though I'm fairly confident that by that point you should be able to squeeze a comfortable chair into the mecha cockpit), with the ship size ranging from Huge to Colossal. It can fit one mecha of its size, two of a size smaller, four of a size below that, etc.

Though it's probably too small if we have more than four pilots with medium or large mecha anyway.

Huh. Well I guess 16 medium sized mechas is a decent number for Colassal. For something called a massive mobile base :/
I guess I'm just picturing, like, Star Wars sized battleships :D
In my defense, Star Wars battleships are big even by sci-fi standards. They're 1600 meters by 1015 meters after all.

On the other hand the noah-ship classes from Super Robot wars, considered some of the biggest around that setting, have around 500-600 meters length and 250-300 feet wide.

Plus you need to take in account that spacing in D&D is kinda generalized. A purple worm has 80 feet length fluff-wise. Still fills only a 20 feet square. Tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall. Still fills just a 30x30 square.

Similarly, a battleship that "just" fills a 30 mu square will actually be much bigger. It's just that the "core" of the ship that really matters, with the engines and command bridge and main weapons, fits roughly in a 30 mu square.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on May 04, 2013, 02:28:13 PM
Nope, they work on the same scale (and ship needs to dip Super Robot for 4 levels to fit the biggest mecha and anything else... though I'm fairly confident that by that point you should be able to squeeze a comfortable chair into the mecha cockpit), with the ship size ranging from Huge to Colossal. It can fit one mecha of its size, two of a size smaller, four of a size below that, etc.

Though it's probably too small if we have more than four pilots with medium or large mecha anyway.

Huh. Well I guess 16 medium sized mechas is a decent number for Colassal. For something called a massive mobile base :/
I guess I'm just picturing, like, Star Wars sized battleships :D
In my defense, Star Wars battleships are big even by sci-fi standards. They're 1600 meters by 1015 meters after all.


That's a mere Destroyer, there are bigger things in the SW universe...
The funny thing is, when I hear Battleship, I'm thinking of this :
(click to show/hide)
:p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2013, 02:41:16 PM
You're right, Star Wars does make them bigger (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123441/2462962-ship_chart.jpg).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on May 04, 2013, 03:06:58 PM
Your chart is off concerning many 40k ships ;) basically, a Lunar cruiser is 5km long.
Biggest official ship describded is the Universe class Mass Conveyor, clocking at 12 km long on average, but there are bigger things in the fluff, for instance, a Transport named the Miserichord about 16 km long.
For a proper scale, go there, choose your home city, and then put a starship over it. (http://www.voidstate.com/rpg/40k_ship_visualizer/)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2013, 03:21:05 PM
Executor class from Star Wars is still over 17 km long, toping all of that.

Anyway fluff writers dick measuring contests aside, I expect everybody to understand how impratical it would be to have kilometer-long ships in combat where everybody else is still working on meter/feet scale.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 04, 2013, 03:25:24 PM
I guess it would be impractical, but they're still cool  :rolleyes

Ah well.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 04, 2013, 03:52:54 PM
The SDF-1 Macross.

Discuss.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
Ship Captain 10/Super Pilot 10. Macross was the main inspiration for the super robot/ship multiclass rules. :P

EDIT: For more detailed stats, it could be colossal +++++ picking up Growth 5 times, meaning it can carry 512 medium-sized mechas, or 1024 small sized ones. Valkyries are definetely on the smaller mecha scale.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 04, 2013, 04:03:42 PM
So, to get a battleship from the other big Real Robot series, you need to multiclass ship/super pilot? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 04, 2013, 04:57:06 PM
Well I guess you gotta choose between being an awesome leader and having an awesome ship.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 04, 2013, 05:16:19 PM
I'm not sure I can see the logic behind having to multiclass to actually improve one class's class feature. Especially not 'multiclass into Super Pilot', which doesn't so much improve the ship as turn it into two things...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2013, 05:50:36 PM
Then what would you say is the purpose of multiclassing?

The base ship does improve. Your weapons are becoming better every couple levels while your HP, AC, DR and energy are all improving at a good rate.

Now if you don't want just raw upgrades and want fancier stuff, then you multiclass into the class that gives you fancy mechas-aka super pilot.

All pilots get a giant personal machine of some sorts. How it improves depends on what pilot path you take.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 04, 2013, 05:58:15 PM
... to get the class features of another class? :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 04, 2013, 09:40:16 PM
Clarified that when the Fusion Golem's composite Plating doubles "any" DR you have, it means just DR gained from the Half-Golem and Fusion Golem levels.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 04, 2013, 09:57:20 PM
Consider a ship like White Base versus the SDF-1 Macross. Both are unique in their make and purpose but in different ways. The White Base is meant to do exactly what it does for the first half of its series - slip through enemy territory mostly unnoticed and repel assault with a minimum contingent of troops. It's meant to be a high-speed, small (for command craft), specialized ship.

The SDF-1, on the other hand, is a colony ship that's supposed to ALSO be able to defend itself from massive enemy assault. For this purpose, it needs space - lots and lots of space. What is the single most notable characteristic of a Super Robot?

IT'S HONKIN' BIG.

I think Osle's purpose with single-class ship captain was to cover more "realistic" starships while the multiclass covered the more fantastic ones (such as, I suppose, Galaxy Express 999. Yes, I know it's a train).

Personally, I picked a multiclass of Arcane and Super Pilot less because of specific features and more because I figured Hugo's mech needed a bit of "oomph", visually speaking (Cybuster has always been less-than-impressive visually for me). But I can't really think of a good example of an arcane/super mix.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 04, 2013, 10:03:28 PM
Oh, that's what Hugo is? I was wondering.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 04, 2013, 10:05:31 PM
But I can't really think of a good example of an arcane/super mix.

Can you think of a good example of an Arcane or Divine Robot at all? I was under the impression that those classes were added more as a concession to the fact that we're playing D&D than because they corresponded to something in the Mecha mythos.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that, though. Doubly so if you can give me a series name so I can find it and watch it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 04, 2013, 10:31:55 PM
Cybuster, as I mentioned, is a good example of Arcane robot (the series isn't particularly great though - it's slow as hell).

Divine Robot... you'll have to ask Osle.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 04, 2013, 10:34:21 PM
I think Demonbane mixes the Cthulhu Mythos into things, but I don't have any actual experience with it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 12:11:35 AM
It does, though it feels more like it's on the arcane side of things.

EDIT: Hey Osle? I think I'm screwed when it comes to Spirits. I'm a Divine Pilot 8/Super Pilot 4, so neither SP nor RP are my highest level classes. Do I have to eat the increased cost either way?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 05, 2013, 02:24:06 AM
Quote
Clarified that when the Fusion Golem's composite Plating doubles "any" DR you have, it means just DR gained from the Half-Golem and Fusion Golem levels.
And does the Plating super robot upgrade increase any DR possessed by 1?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 05, 2013, 02:34:10 AM
It does, though it feels more like it's on the arcane side of things.

EDIT: Hey Osle? I think I'm screwed when it comes to Spirits. I'm a Divine Pilot 8/Super Pilot 4, so neither SP nor RP are my highest level classes. Do I have to eat the increased cost either way?

I thought you were an arcane pilot?

In any case, I assumed that Divine Pilot counted as Real Pilot and Arcane Pilot counted as Super Pilot for spirits, since those are the respective robot types they use.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 10:42:44 AM
It does, though it feels more like it's on the arcane side of things.

EDIT: Hey Osle? I think I'm screwed when it comes to Spirits. I'm a Divine Pilot 8/Super Pilot 4, so neither SP nor RP are my highest level classes. Do I have to eat the increased cost either way?

I thought you were an arcane pilot?

In any case, I assumed that Divine Pilot counted as Real Pilot and Arcane Pilot counted as Super Pilot for spirits, since those are the respective robot types they use.

I happened to be wrong. >.>;;
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 05, 2013, 02:50:17 PM
Lollipops getting stuck to the nuclear fusion mecha: not going to survive long. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 02:59:44 PM
My mecha's probably going to be the DEFINITION of glass cannon.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 05, 2013, 03:03:46 PM
That would be a cannon, made of glass. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 03:17:15 PM
I wanna know - is there an option for amplifying spells through your mecha? I can probably do some wicked stuff if there is.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 05, 2013, 03:18:33 PM
I wanna know - is there an option for amplifying spells through your mecha? I can probably do some wicked stuff if there is.

You mean besides the Arcane and Divine Pilot classes?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 03:54:08 PM
I wanna know - is there an option for amplifying spells through your mecha? I can probably do some wicked stuff if there is.

You mean besides the Arcane and Divine Pilot classes?

Possibly. I'm actually not entirely sure what the classes do for that.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 05, 2013, 04:08:58 PM
There's the Amplifier Accessory. 50 space, lets you use SLA's etc. through mecha.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 04:15:44 PM
Point me towards it if you'd be so kind?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 05, 2013, 04:17:59 PM
Amplifier is in the Arsenal post under accessories, but it doesn't work for spells.

You'd want to check with Oslecamo but my reading of the Arcane/Divine Robot class features is that they let you channel any spells of that type you cast through the mecha, not just the ones obtained from the pilot class.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 05, 2013, 07:02:11 PM
Harald: In case you missed it, you need to make your ship at least colossal size for it to be able to carry the current party's mechas.

It does, though it feels more like it's on the arcane side of things.

EDIT: Hey Osle? I think I'm screwed when it comes to Spirits. I'm a Divine Pilot 8/Super Pilot 4, so neither SP nor RP are my highest level classes. Do I have to eat the increased cost either way?
You'll count as a RP for spirit purposes.

Quote
Clarified that when the Fusion Golem's composite Plating doubles "any" DR you have, it means just DR gained from the Half-Golem and Fusion Golem levels.
And does the Plating super robot upgrade increase any DR possessed by 1?
No, it specifically says the DR of the Super Robot increases.


Amplifier is in the Arsenal post under accessories, but it doesn't work for spells.

You'd want to check with Oslecamo but my reading of the Arcane/Divine Robot class features is that they let you channel any spells of that type you cast through the mecha, not just the ones obtained from the pilot class.
Divine pilot's mecha can channel divine spells, Arcane Robot's mecha can channel arcane spells.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 05, 2013, 07:27:06 PM
Awww fork.

Can I get it to work for Arcane spells instead?  :-\
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 05, 2013, 09:57:23 PM
Quote
No, it specifically says the DR of the Super Robot increases.
Indeed, but they also receive self-buffing class abilities, which includes DR. The DR also becomes its own, so it could technically improve it.
But if you want it to only improve the DR it gains from its base stats and arsenal goodies, then fine by me.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on May 06, 2013, 09:48:10 AM
I'll change the Götterdämmerung to allow everyone to fit in there.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 06, 2013, 09:57:02 AM
Secret Page spellbook filling. Yay/nay?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 06, 2013, 10:14:49 AM
I must apologise for the difficulty we shall have at level 16: the Yatagarasu gets bigger. Again. Maybe it'll ride on the ship?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on May 06, 2013, 10:20:17 AM
We'll buy a side car for your robot :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 06, 2013, 11:00:10 AM
I must apologise for the difficulty we shall have at level 16: the Yatagarasu gets bigger. Again. Maybe it'll ride on the ship?

Ship as a surfboard.
Ride them cosmic waves.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 06, 2013, 04:46:47 PM
Awww fork.

Can I get it to work for Arcane spells instead?  :-\
No, sorry.

Quote
No, it specifically says the DR of the Super Robot increases.
Indeed, but they also receive self-buffing class abilities, which includes DR. The DR also becomes its own, so it could technically improve it.
That way lies madness. By your reading, you could then further argue that the Super Robot plating upgrade keeps applying to your personal DR again and again until it reaches infinite.

However, each Plating upgrade only applies once, so either it applies to the Super Robot itself, in which case it becomes a fixed value and overalps with your own DR, or you apply it to your personal DR when leveling up inside your mecha, in which case it stops working as soon as you exit, never to work again. I believe you would prefer the first choice.

Secret Page spellbook filling. Yay/nay?
I really don't even know what makes people think you can use Secret Page to write wizard spells.

Secret Page just changes the looks. But looks alone do not a spellbook page make. You specifically need special materials to make them good enough to prepare spells. Otherwise you could just cast a single Silent Image each morning to replicate the full library of wizard spells.

I must apologise for the difficulty we shall have at level 16: the Yatagarasu gets bigger. Again. Maybe it'll ride on the ship?

Ship as a surfboard.
Ride them cosmic waves.
I aprove of this. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 06, 2013, 04:51:45 PM
How many total comm devices is Aden giving to other characters?

So far I've got:

Raineh/Amaterasu
Ketaro/Katherine
Harld/Abraxax?

Anyone else?

Awww fork.

Can I get it to work for Arcane spells instead?  :-\

Could you take Arcane Pilot over Divine Pilot? Or dip 1 level of Arcane Pilot?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 06, 2013, 05:23:10 PM
Awww fork.

Can I get it to work for Arcane spells instead?  :-\

Could you take Arcane Pilot over Divine Pilot? Or dip 1 level of Arcane Pilot?
That would work. Get both classes and you can channel both arcane and divine spells.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 06, 2013, 05:36:30 PM
Assuming Kuroimaken is still going with Divine 8/Super 4, replacing 1 (or more) level(s) of Super with Arcane would seem like a reasonable plan. As per the ruling here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7174.msg161997#msg161997) Arcane levels would grant the same bonuses to the robot as Super levels.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 06, 2013, 07:36:13 PM
Assuming Kuroimaken is still going with Divine 8/Super 4, replacing 1 (or more) level(s) of Super with Arcane would seem like a reasonable plan. As per the ruling here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7174.msg161997#msg161997) Arcane levels would grant the same bonuses to the robot as Super levels.
That works perfectly, actually, since I had NO IDEA what I was going to use for the Arsenal I ability.

More to the point, I wanted to give that high Wis meaning. I picked it up because of Divine Disciple, so...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 06, 2013, 07:52:17 PM
Divine Robot grants arsenal access the same way Real Robot does (only with half capacity) so Divine Pilot 8 gives you Arsenal III and, if you go with an Alteisen or a WeissWritter, 62.5 arsenal space.

If you don't have any other plans for it, I would recomend the Fission System for Reactor II, and possibly the Hybrid Armor for an armor, DR, and Fort save boost.

That leaves 12 space which is enough for Ablative Plates for 9 extra HP and a Cartridge because it only costs 2 space. Which reminds me, I need to put ablative plates on Aden's mecha. 
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 06, 2013, 10:04:51 PM
For Flaw selection, do we have to assume that they were acquired at 1st level or are we allowed to gain flaws after, as per the DM-decision clause?

I know we can have feats we don't qualify for (they do nothing until you qualify) but I prefer to have the character choose feats it would have been able to use when it acquired them.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 06, 2013, 10:21:03 PM
I know we can have feats we don't qualify for (they do nothing until you qualify)

Is this a published rule or a house rule? And where is it published/posted?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 06, 2013, 10:43:53 PM
Complete Warrior (or adventurer), near the PrC section.
Also found in the FAQ which may cite page.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 06, 2013, 11:46:11 PM
Admittedly, I think that session speaks mostly of the consequences of losing virtual feats (such as a ranger losing TWF when not wearing light armor). But I'd double-check, to be sure.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 07, 2013, 01:21:17 AM
Its mostly about having a requirement reached by means that can be lost. You still have the feat but lose its benefits until the lost requirement is restored.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 07, 2013, 02:08:59 PM
@Concerned Ninja
I look at your spells known and I find that maybe you could tweak it a little.
Here's a few suggestion, say, one for each spell level:
(click to show/hide)

Here's a similar list of suggestions for our arcane friends:
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 07, 2013, 02:48:30 PM
For Flaw selection, do we have to assume that they were acquired at 1st level or are we allowed to gain flaws after, as per the DM-decision clause?

Flaws only acquired at 1st level.


2: Wraithstrike and another spell that must not be named is obvious but Heroism is quite fine.

It also happens to be a level 3 spell for sorcerors/wizards. Only bards get it as a level 2.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 07, 2013, 04:45:08 PM
Silent Image is my bread and butter. Also my coffee, my eggs, my bacon...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 07, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
Variety is the spice of life.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 07, 2013, 05:00:58 PM
To be fair, I can do more with my bread and butter than most wizards can.  ;)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 07, 2013, 05:03:27 PM
Just try not to use too much of it. Gluttony is a bad thing. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 07, 2013, 05:47:16 PM
Just try not to use too much of it. Gluttony is a bad thing. :p

And so's cholesterol.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 07, 2013, 05:48:50 PM
And fat.

Too much cheese is out by that, really.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 07, 2013, 10:54:27 PM
@Concerned Ninja
I look at your spells known and I find that maybe you could tweak it a little.
Here's a few suggestion, say, one for each spell level:
(click to show/hide)

Here's a similar list of suggestions for our arcane friends:
(click to show/hide)

Keep in mind that almost all my spells were picked for me by the class. I get 5 1st level spells, 3 of levels 2-5 and 1 6th level that I choose myself.

For Arcane it's even more limited. 3 1st level, 1 of 2-5 and 0 of 6th.

EDIT: Looked through and incorporated some of those.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 07, 2013, 10:57:40 PM
I know. It's one of the reasons I only made one suggestion per spell level.

Edit: Everyone ready to get moving and go to Ragol?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 08, 2013, 07:58:48 PM
Edit: Everyone ready to get moving and go to Ragol?

Yeah, about that, Concerned Ninja still has to spend around half his WBL and Kuromaiken doesn't even has levels set up yet.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 08, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
Sorry, I've been running around like crazy due to RL. Doesn't help that my monitor's on the fritz and I have to use my TV, either. :banghead

I'll get to it soonish. Promise!
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 08, 2013, 09:58:23 PM
If I can help you with the process, you can send me a list of stuff you'd like suggestions on or help with.
Just offering it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 08, 2013, 10:09:40 PM
Help is always appreciated.

I've actually set up most of the sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=564751)... except for equipment and spell selection.

Aside from one small substitution (one less level of Super Pilot, replaced by one level of Arcane Pilot) pretty much all choices are set. I could use help building my robot (which shall be renamed Murakumo, because Blazblue reference, biatches!), picking the spell list and some equipment...

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 08, 2013, 10:22:07 PM
Your robot seems to be just about the same as mine, so that's a start.
It depends on what you want to specialize. As in; are you in a mecha just to cast spells and fight on Mu scale?
If so you'd probably want to focus on speed and defences. Be as hard to hit as possible. After making your spell selection, determine if you'll need to make many attack rolls.
I'll check up your spell list later tonight/tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 08, 2013, 11:25:07 PM
Your robot seems to be just about the same as mine, so that's a start.
It depends on what you want to specialize. As in; are you in a mecha just to cast spells and fight on Mu scale?
If so you'd probably want to focus on speed and defences. Be as hard to hit as possible. After making your spell selection, determine if you'll need to make many attack rolls.
I'll check up your spell list later tonight/tomorrow morning.

Well, casting spells and fighting on Mu scale seems a given. I'll probably be abusing the Funnels to deliver long-ranged spell death.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 09, 2013, 12:43:50 AM
Edit: Everyone ready to get moving and go to Ragol?

Yeah, about that, Concerned Ninja still has to spend around half his WBL and Kuromaiken doesn't even has levels set up yet.

I can spend money retroactively via my Bag of Tricks ability. That's why I have so much wealth left over.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 09, 2013, 02:29:43 AM
Here's a list of a few spells.  Feel free to pick and fill as you need. There are other good ones and others much better, certainly, but most of these are generally always useful. If you want to learn more spells than those you get via wiz progression, consider scrolls for level 1 spells and training from other wizards for the rest. Get a special no-expensive-writing-material spellbook if you're gonna get plenty.
(click to show/hide)

For the mecha,
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 09, 2013, 02:42:06 AM
Kuroimaken's sheet says Arcane Pilot 8, Super Pilot 4. Is this accurate? If so, why Super 4 and not Arcane 12? The robot progression is the same and higher level spells seem better than the rest of what you get from super pilot.

Also, if it is accurate, he wouldn't get a real robot at all, it would be a straight super progression.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 09, 2013, 03:53:06 AM
Aye, mistook with the multiclassing of divine pilot.
I understood he'd be going AP 9/SP 3. Reason would be getting maneuvers, an extra spirit and another pilot feat instead of an arcane feat. The BAB helps too, I imagine.
I think having 4 SP levels would restore the 50 arsenal space, too.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 09, 2013, 04:42:55 AM
I think having 4 SP levels would restore the 50 arsenal space, too.

The way multiclassing between casting and non casting pilot classes works, you don't get any advantage out of it robot wise.

BAB, HP, and maneuvers would be nice, though. Loses spells but he already has full casting from the other side, so that's not a big deal.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 09, 2013, 05:14:24 AM
Damn casting classes, getting robots too.  :shakefist
Ah well.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 09, 2013, 10:37:31 AM
Kuroimaken's sheet says Arcane Pilot 8, Super Pilot 4. Is this accurate? If so, why Super 4 and not Arcane 12? The robot progression is the same and higher level spells seem better than the rest of what you get from super pilot.

Also, if it is accurate, he wouldn't get a real robot at all, it would be a straight super progression.
As of right now, it is not. It's supposed to be Arcane1/Divine 8/SP3. Divine gets cleric stuff such as Cure spells - which we might sorely need since NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US SEEMS TO HAVE THAT ABILITY. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

Otherwise, Arcane Disciple is a part of the build - so I wanted to do more with that high Wis.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 09, 2013, 11:26:57 AM
Don't something like three or four characters have Fast Healing? Could explain it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 09, 2013, 11:41:49 AM
Divine gets cleric stuff such as Cure spells - which we might sorely need since NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US SEEMS TO HAVE THAT ABILITY. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

My pilot side is full Divine...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 09, 2013, 11:50:28 AM
Divine gets cleric stuff such as Cure spells - which we might sorely need since NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US SEEMS TO HAVE THAT ABILITY. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

My pilot side is full Divine...
So I'm reading it wrong. >.>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 09, 2013, 11:56:15 AM
Don't something like three or four characters have Fast Healing? Could explain it.
I had a couple thousand gold I didn't spend that I planned to fill with tools and such, which would Include a Wand of Vigor or something (already have lesser restore).

But yeah, don't personally need it...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 10, 2013, 05:26:06 AM
Ever since Osle mentioned the possible switch I've been considering trading Divine Flame as my main discipline for Desire Drive and I figured a way to tweak the character some to make it work.
I'd get quite a sensible drop in damage potential but considering everyone else's I figure it might not be much of an issue to lay off the big punches and take on more of a support role.

I don't really mind either way but was interested in knowing what you guys would prefer.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 10, 2013, 05:47:12 AM
From the looks of things every character except mine can contribute offensively pretty effectively (I can as well, in personal combat, but at mecha scale I'm strictly support.)

So I don't see any problem with you toning down your damage in favor of other things. You'll, presumably, still have 33 str so your offense can default to "punch problem in face" if necessary. 
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 10, 2013, 05:53:50 AM
I'm fine with that, being largely focused on smashing things. Also throwing nuclear suns at people, but mostly smashing.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 10, 2013, 11:18:32 AM
Hugo is a SCM, so he can do blasting, some BFC, and thanks to the Shadowcraft Cookie trick, he may be able to support people with utility spells when push comes to shove.

Which reminds me, can I get Delicate Disks in mu scale, and if so, can I have an automated disk launcher?  :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 10, 2013, 11:35:32 AM
Which reminds me, can I get Delicate Disks in mu scale, and if so, can I have an automated disk launcher?  :D

I don't know what that is but it made me think of a giant mecha DJ in space defeatin' foes with mad beats.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 10, 2013, 03:30:54 PM
Buffed up dodge and Nat armor/DR a bit for real robots.

Hugo is a SCM, so he can do blasting, some BFC, and thanks to the Shadowcraft Cookie trick, he may be able to support people with utility spells when push comes to shove.
Ah, guess then I have to inform you of my shadowcraft mage errata:
-Shadow Illusion no longer ignores any extra gold/material/exp costs of the spell you're copying.
-Earth spell is banned.

Which reminds me, can I get Delicate Disks in mu scale, and if so, can I have an automated disk launcher?  :D
Yes, you can have delicate disks in mu scale if you make them while inside your mecha.
Automated disk launcher will run you 25 arsenal space. Gives the disks 30 mu range. You can only load up a number of them at a time equal to your max arsenal level. Reloading fullround action that provokes aoos.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 10, 2013, 05:49:11 PM
You could have REALLY told me that BEFORE I went with Arcane Disciple and SCM, osle...

EDIT: I know it's your prerogative and all as a DM to ban what you need to, or feel the need to, but I could've used that information BEFORE I built my character. Admittedly, if I had told you of my plans earlier, I would have probably gotten a heads-up, but I didn't expect it to be an issue.

EDIT2: If I may offer a suggestion...

I don't particularly mind paying XP for Shadow Miracles. It should be kind of the illusionist nova, as it were.

But might I suggest we waive the GP cost for the spell? We could also put up a limit such as "you cannot have a total of spell levels inside Delicate Disks any higher than your CL x half your level, rounded down".
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 10, 2013, 07:29:25 PM
But might I suggest we waive the GP cost for the spell? We could also put up a limit such as "you cannot have a total of spell levels inside Delicate Disks any higher than your CL x half your level, rounded down".
Swap reserves of strength and sanctum spell for some two other feats that don't show up in 50% of arcane cheese tricks and that's a deal.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 10, 2013, 07:45:10 PM
Hmmm. I suppose I could do that. Any suggestions for replacements?

I'll need to look into that...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 10, 2013, 07:55:05 PM
I've always liked Mobile Spellcasting and Extraordinary Spell Aim. If that inspires you.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 10, 2013, 08:04:01 PM
I've always liked Mobile Spellcasting and Extraordinary Spell Aim. If that inspires you.

I'm actually leaning more towards Arcane Thesis and Metamagic School Focus.

It's just too bad you can't use Arcane Thesis with Heighten Spell... Though you COULD, theoretically, use it with Empower/Maximize/whatever and stack Heighten on top of it. Or use a +0 adjustment meta to have a level 6 spell on a level 5 slot, for example.

Say, Osle. I have Signature Spell. Would it be alright to combine two uses of Signature Spell to power Versatile Spellcasting, or does Signature spell not satisfy the "able to cast spontaneously" requirement?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 10, 2013, 08:14:35 PM
Quote
It's just too bad you can't use Arcane Thesis with Heighten Spell.

I think its actually quite fine that way.

Otherwise, hey, your choice.
Oh, there is also Extraordinary Concentration, or somesuch. Very nice if you know how to use it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 10, 2013, 08:16:48 PM
Tecnically you already have spontaneous spellcasting from arcane pilot.

But I would rather you take something that doesn't potentially give you 9th level spells at 12th level.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 10, 2013, 08:25:50 PM
Tecnically you already have spontaneous spellcasting from arcane pilot.

But I would rather you take something that doesn't potentially give you 9th level spells at 12th level.

I'm fine with keeping my tricks strictly one level above what I'm supposed to cast, tops.

And for the future, do Ethergaunts count as subtype Evil outsiders for HoH Taint purposes?

EDIT: I'm not really aiming for higher-than-my-level spell access. At least not on the level you seem to be worried about. ^_^;;

Quote
It's just too bad you can't use Arcane Thesis with Heighten Spell.

I think its actually quite fine that way.

Otherwise, hey, your choice.
Oh, there is also Extraordinary Concentration, or somesuch. Very nice if you know how to use it.

Well, I guess for once they worded it so the feat wouldn't make DM heads explode from the implications.

And yes, Extraordinary Concentration is pretty nifty. (So's Extraordinary Spell Aim, to be honest. BFC's best friend...)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 11, 2013, 08:24:00 AM
Tecnically you already have spontaneous spellcasting from arcane pilot.

But I would rather you take something that doesn't potentially give you 9th level spells at 12th level.

I'm fine with keeping my tricks strictly one level above what I'm supposed to cast, tops.

And for the future, do Ethergaunts count as subtype Evil outsiders for HoH Taint purposes?
HoH taint rules are optional. An option I'm choosing to don't use in this campaign. In one hand because the way it is written, the "heroes" would want to become as tained as inhumanly possible, in the other because everybody else and their mother would be using taint, as well as the other optional HoH rules for such lovely things as no-save daze whenever you meet an enemy. Dark Force retires because the whole universe is already saturated with corruption and despair and nobody is even trying to change it.

Anyway, monster classes that get alignment subtypes specifically state it in their entries.

EDIT: I'm not really aiming for higher-than-my-level spell access. At least not on the level you seem to be worried about. ^_^;;
Then you're "just" aiming at three schools of magic at the tip between wizard and cleric lists. One of which you had tecnically banned. One of the others is insanely versatile by itself. While ignoring half the price those extra costs you would normally have to pay.

You want that kind of versatility here, you'll have to accept limits. One of them that you can't automatically acess the best spells a nonSCM of your level could acess whenever you will it.


Well, I guess for once they worded it so the feat wouldn't make DM heads explode from the implications.

And yes, Extraordinary Concentration is pretty nifty. (So's Extraordinary Spell Aim, to be honest. BFC's best friend...)
Why don't you just take those then?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 11, 2013, 09:47:35 AM
Spell Thematics  :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 11, 2013, 10:37:44 AM
Spell Thematics  :rolleyes

Kind of a leftover from when I was trying to squeeze in a level of Halruaan Elder.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 11, 2013, 10:55:52 AM
Ken-chan? (http://gtoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/zaraki_kenpachi_wallpaper_by_tuia007.jpg)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 11, 2013, 12:22:23 PM
Hide and seek?
I think we're getting lost :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 12, 2013, 08:30:23 AM
I think we've hit one of those problems PbP's have: getting everyone to move somewhere and not stand around talking. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 12, 2013, 10:16:55 AM
Since indeed you seemed to be fooling around a bit too much, took the liberty of making you enter Ragol's atmosphere.

Now decide where to descend. If you can't make a decision whitin one week, highest voted go. If the're tied, I'll roll to decide.

And kuromaiken when your sheet's ready, please post it in the character's thread.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 12:51:02 PM
Well, I now have a raggamoffyn minion! I'd have it fluffed as looking more like the character's human-like skin than clothes.
Does it get a disguise bonus, circumstantial or otherwise, for looking like clothing/skin?
The moffyn already appears to be some kind of human, mostly wondering how obvious it'd be that there is another creature under.

When the character pilots the mecha, is the moffyn considered to be piloting it too, and if not what kind of action does it take to switch who pilots it?
Also, I'd want your ruling on whether this sentence in the Living Zombie class allows the zombie to take levels in Monster of Legend by qualifying as a living creature rather than an undead one.
Quote
It now qualifies as a living creature whenever it is to its benefit and no longer qualifies as an undead creature for negative effects affecting them.
Edit: Nevermind. Numan can qualify for anything by default.

Somehow, I doubt I can have Relationship feats with the Raggamoffyn character.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 12, 2013, 01:03:14 PM
I don't think there'd be that much of a benefit. You're not exactly adjacent to the Ragamoffyn (in any conceivable way, you're more sort of inside it)

Hm. So, if it's symbiotic: both a Ragamoffyn and Captured One get their own actions, but only the Captured One can actually move?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 01:10:36 PM
I think so. Kinda like someone on a platform titanic creature or on a horse.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 12, 2013, 01:14:23 PM
... how are you getting this Ragamoffyn? :O
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 01:21:00 PM
Got the Loyal Undead feat to get a zombie subordinate out of the undead minion I get off a stance. It must have a zombie level, so being a Newman qualifies to become a zombie. I have it take the monster blooded feat for it to get a raggamoffyn level. Voilà.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 12, 2013, 01:28:08 PM
... looking at the character sheet for this thing, it is apparently somehow level 12 despite the fact it's supposed to be a level behind you at all times, based on the wording of the feat to get it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 12, 2013, 03:10:40 PM
Ugh, WBL...

Look, I'm fine with assuming I bought the best armor I could afford, MAYBE a Sizing manriki-gusari (it's martial, last I checked...) and sank the rest into my spellbooks, and call it a day.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 12, 2013, 03:21:10 PM
Somehow, I doubt I can have Relationship feats with the Raggamoffyn character.
Realtionship feats don't work if you're both riding the same machine.

Got the Loyal Undead feat to get a zombie subordinate out of the undead minion I get off a stance. It must have a zombie level, so being a Newman qualifies to become a zombie. I have it take the monster blooded feat for it to get a raggamoffyn level. Voilà.

I don't remember ever aproving any of your Desire Dream feats. Last time I checked we were still discussing the base class, and only the maneuvers and stances had gotten the ok signal from my part. Needless to say, almost-completely customizeable easily-replaceable cohort one level behind you is most definetely not fine. If you want a pet raggamoffyn, pick the actual feat designed for it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 03:41:52 PM
I was under the impression that after fixing your last review batch we were done with the class.
As to the feat itself, it was based on Draconic cohort, but with the need of an undead minion. Can have it work similarly to the doll feat otherwise.
I'd rather get the Mentor/Leadership feat than the raggamoffyn feat for that purpose. It would give me a shortcut to other stuff.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 12, 2013, 03:49:56 PM
I was under the impression that after fixing your last review batch we were done with the class.
Clearly a misunderstand in our part. I was waiting for you to confirm the chances so I would give another view-over and then move on to the extras if nothing else looked strange.

As to the feat itself, it was based on Draconic cohort, but with the need of an undead minion. Can have it work similarly to the doll feat otherwise.
Draconic cohort was made in mind with the fact that dragons come with bucketloads of HD attached to them. The doll cohort is two levels behind the master.


I'd rather get leadership than the raggamoffyn feat for that purpose. It would give me a shortcut to other stuff.
Go ahead. Your leadership score is currently 11 with your negative Cha mod, neting you a 7th level cohort.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 03:57:21 PM
Quote
Clearly a misunderstand in our part. I was waiting for you to confirm the chances so I would give another view-over and then move on to the extras if nothing else looked strange.
The chances?

Quote
Draconic cohort was made in mind with the fact that dragons come with bucketloads of HD attached to them. The doll cohort is two levels behind the master.
Perhaps, but when you take a pseudodragon, interesting things happen.  :smirk
Quote
Got no problem with two levels behind, otherwise.

Go ahead. Your leadership score is currently 11 with your negative Cha mod, neting you a 7th level cohort.
Aye, thats why I edited to add the Mentor feat.  :p
You were too fast.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 12, 2013, 04:08:16 PM
Quote
Clearly a misunderstand in our part. I was waiting for you to confirm the chances so I would give another view-over and then move on to the extras if nothing else looked strange.
The chances?
Changes.

Aye, thats why I edited to add the Mentor feat.  :p
You were too fast.

Quote from: Apprentice-Feat
You're free to disallow this feat if it would disrupt the campaign. Unlike Leadership, the allied NPC does not travel with the PCs, so he or she won't take treasure, XP, and spotlight time from the player characters.

Basically, Apprentices aren't fanatical slaves cohorts. They don't go after the mentor doing his bidding. Besides there's nothing about level limits, so I'll just be disallowing this feat.

And yes, you need the Apprentice feat to become a mentor.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 12, 2013, 04:18:05 PM
Eh, the benefits of a Ragamoffyn cohort in a gestalt Super Robot Wars campaign seem minor.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 04:38:14 PM
Basically, Apprentices aren't fanatical slaves cohorts. They don't go after the mentor doing his bidding. Besides there's nothing about level limits, so I'll just be disallowing this feat.

And yes, you need the Apprentice feat to become a mentor.

Aye, it is an actual relationship. I recall there being a level limit but I don't have my books presently.
You need the apprentice feat but it becomes the mentor feat when you reach a certain level, iirc.

Quote
Eh, the benefits of a Ragamoffyn cohort in a gestalt Super Robot Wars campaign seem minor.
It is perfect for my ghost in the shell concept and there's the neat image of a "body within a body" pilot in a mecha within a mecha.
It is also works wonderfully with my desired team role. A great combo, in my opinion.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 12, 2013, 07:53:40 PM
'Careful selection of combat resources'.

To the group with a nuclear dragon and nuclear raven. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 12, 2013, 08:57:12 PM
I certainly wasn't pointing fingers at anybody.  :p

"You got something under your mecha's shoe."
"...dat a hospital/school/orphanage I just stepped on?"
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 13, 2013, 12:59:10 AM
I certainly wasn't pointing fingers at anybody.  :p

"You got something under your mecha's shoe."
"...dat a hospital/school/orphanage I just stepped on?"

"You saw it! Those orphans attacked first!"
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 13, 2013, 02:37:29 AM
"I'm large, not clumsy. >.>"
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 13, 2013, 11:39:04 AM
"I'm large, not clumsy. >.>"

I like big bots and I cannot lie
You other brothers can't deny...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 13, 2013, 07:07:20 PM
D&D does seem to press that bigger is better. :D

I have to say, we have three characters with Monster of Legend levels already, for someone's cohort to qualify as well... er...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 13, 2013, 08:02:26 PM
You're completely right. It cheapens the whole concept.

Changed Monster of Legend levels so now it cannot be taken by cohorts/followers/minions/similar.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 03:23:24 PM
Can I craft dolls with the mecha to make bigass dolls? Then craft weapons with the mecha for the bigass dolls?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 14, 2013, 03:53:30 PM
Before that you can explain why the loyal undead is ranting massive bonus HP when you said you would base it on the Immortal Doll feat (that doesn't gain bonus HP and is restricted to a very limited selection of classes, plus costing resources). Don't remember if that clause was there before, but it's still much stronger than Immortal Doll. I was willing to overlook the customization and cheapness as long as it didn't have any other bonus. Making it have more HP than several party members is absurd.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 06:40:56 PM
I took its levels and build to get as much HP as possible. It wouldn't have much hp if I didn't built it for that purpose.
It would have more HP if it was a normal undead minion since it'd have as much as I do.
There is a display of where the hp comes from. I'll probably even dump Improved Toughness in its leftover feats.


Immortal doll is one of many minions that can still be operated. You still get to use many replicas using your stats as the level 1 doll stance is stronger than Wicked Trance by default, it has more synergy with the entire discipline than the undead minion and happens to also be the requirement of a strong tactical feat, so you'd take it anyway to gain access to it.
Once the undead minion becomes a loyal undead, the stance it requires becomes much less useful, making it a more costly investment.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 14, 2013, 06:48:38 PM
... a stance is a costly investment for a an almost fully customisable undead minion? :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 06:59:43 PM
Compared with immortal Doll and Leadership, which grants a normal cohort that is more customizable, replaceable, has its own equipment and comes with followers?
Yes.
It actually replaces something. Doesn't give you a new one.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 14, 2013, 07:08:12 PM
... Immortal Doll locks you into a tiny sized sneak-type with no inherent equipment. Um...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 14, 2013, 07:10:26 PM
Loyal Undead is by far the most easily replaceable of them all. Get an humanoid corpse and meditate for 8 hours. New loyal undead. No gold. Not caring if you fried, ate and then killed your previous loyal undead.

It's also more customizeable. You don't need to invest on Charisma or any particular skill, and the loyal undead can pick whatever it pleases after the first zombie level. Whereas the doll can only pick from the 3 classes, and a regular cohort takes a bunch of stacking level penalties if you go for certain choices.

Not to mention that you normally can only be in one stance at a time, but with Loyal Undead, well, you get your Loyal Undead mimicking wicked spirit and still get to be in another stance.

And desire drive has far more group buffs than Doll Judgement. Doubly so because the loyal undead can stack up on group buffs by itself.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 07:19:16 PM
Quote
Loyal Undead is by far the most easily replaceable of them all. Get an humanoid corpse and meditate for 8 hours. New loyal undead. No gold. Not caring if you fried, ate and then killed your previous loyal undead.
It is replaced, but it is still the same one. Replacement costs can be added if its an issue. Its like is pretty cheap.

Quote
It's also more customizeable. You don't need to invest on Charisma or any particular skill, and the loyal undead can pick whatever it pleases after the first zombie level. Whereas the doll can only pick from the 3 classes, and a regular cohort takes a bunch of stacking level penalties if you go for certain choices.
It isn't as customizable as a normal cohort. Not sure what you mean by stacking level penalties that it would suffer and this one wouldn't. If a skill/ability score investment for progression is desired, it can be added.

Quote
Not to mention that you normally can only be in one stance at a time, but with Loyal Undead, well, you get your Loyal Undead and still get to be in another stance.
Same applies to Immortal Doll. And normal cohorts, for that matter. Not sure what your point is.

Quote
And desire drive has far more group buffs than Doll Judgement.
They specialize in different things, yes.
Quote
Doubly so because the loyal undead can stack up on group buffs by itself.
Like a normal cohort. Though that one might have a more buffing level than Zombie and the likely second level required to get rid of that pesky Single Actions Only.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 14, 2013, 07:26:27 PM
Quote
Same applies to Immortal Doll

Largely incorrect.

Permitted classes for Immortal Doll: Carrionette, Rogue, Needle Fighter, Paragon (in that order). If you're using feats to get a stance like that... eh, kind of stupid. You can turn your Loyal Undead into a Martial Adept.

I would honestly require it to take all the levels of Jiang Shi, since... that's kind of what it is.

I also don't think 'normal Leadership is broken, why care about balance' is a good thing for a martial school related feature that's probably meant to provide a saner alternative less likely to be outright banned.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 14, 2013, 07:33:39 PM
Whar Raineh Daze said. Plus:

Quote
Loyal Undead is by far the most easily replaceable of them all. Get an humanoid corpse and meditate for 8 hours. New loyal undead. No gold. Not caring if you fried, ate and then killed your previous loyal undead.
It is replaced, but it is still the same one. Replacement costs can be added if its an issue. Its like is pretty cheap.

Quote
It's also more customizeable. You don't need to invest on Charisma or any particular skill, and the loyal undead can pick whatever it pleases after the first zombie level. Whereas the doll can only pick from the 3 classes, and a regular cohort takes a bunch of stacking level penalties if you go for certain choices.
It isn't as customizable as a normal cohort. Not sure what you mean by stacking level penalties that it would suffer and this one wouldn't. If a skill/ability score investment for progression is desired, it can be added.
You'll just add something that's irrelevant for your current build, so no.

Quote
Not to mention that you normally can only be in one stance at a time, but with Loyal Undead, well, you get your Loyal Undead and still get to be in another stance.
Same applies to Immortal Doll. And normal cohorts, for that matter. Not sure what your point is.
Here, let me italize and bold it for you: immortal doll can only take rogue, paragon or needle fighter levels! Your loyal undead can take whatever it pleases whitout any prerequisites on your character. And then still gets a bunch of free HP because why not?

Quote
And desire drive has far more group buffs than Doll Judgement.
They specialize in different things, yes.
Doll Judgement specializes. desire drive is probably the most generalist school I've ever seen, with healing, buffing, damaging, utility, minions, area change, personal areas, personal transports, alignment conversion, and the list goes on.

Quote
Doubly so because the loyal undead can stack up on group buffs by itself.
Like a normal cohort.
I'll repeat this one last time: normal cohorts don't get their master's Wis to HP.

Though that one might have a more buffing level than Zombie and the likely second level required to get rid of that pesky Single Actions Only.
If only somebody had written a bunch of interchageable zombie prestige classes that not only get rid of that pesky single actions, but also unlock Use Magic Device or whatever skill you want forever and ever while offering even more extra bonus... Truly, it's a massive sacrifice for the zombie to have to take a dip in uber zombie prcs :eh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 07:44:14 PM
(click to show/hide)

Quote
You'll just add something that's irrelevant for your current build, so no.
I'd add something logical. I can adapt my build to meet it if I wouldn't already.

Quote
Here, let me capitalize, italize and bold it for you: IMMORTAL DOLL CAN ONLY TAKE ROGUE, PARAGON OR NEEDLE FIGHTER LEVELS! Your loyal undead can take whatever it pleases whitout any prerequisites on your character. And then still gets a bunch of free HP because why not?
Looks like you read it the same way as Raineh Daze. You take the sentence out of subject.

Quote
I'll repeat this one last time: normal cohorts don't get their master's Wis to HP.
What does that have to do with being able to buff the party by itself?

Quote
If only somebody had written a bunch of interchageable zombie prestige classes that not only get rid of that pesky single actions, but also unlock Use Magic Device or whatever skill you want forever and ever while offering even more extra bonus... Truly, it's a massive sacrifice for the zombie to have to take a dip in uber zombie prcs
Forever and ever? Only on zombie levels.
Getting a level only to have Use Magic Device for at least 2 levels and whatever isn't that sweet of a deal compared to everything else way more useful that could be acquired instead. Like something that grants Use Magic Device as a class skill and better class abilities.

Don't mind modifying it either way.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 14, 2013, 07:48:46 PM
It doesn't exist at all, in any form? Didn't know that. :huh

Quote
Getting a level only to have Use Magic Device for at least 2 levels and whatever isn't that sweet of a deal compared to everything else way more useful that could be acquired instead. Like something that grants Use Magic Device as a class skill and better class abilities.

... I am confused how you can only have a skill across two levels.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 07:52:51 PM
Quote
It doesn't exist at all, in any form? Didn't know that.
Yep. Not as far as I know, at least.

Quote
... I am confused how you can only have a skill across two levels.
The first zombie level and the level in the zombie prc that removes SAO.
That makes it at least two levels, unless it would be interested to spend more levels in zombie prcs.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 14, 2013, 07:58:29 PM
Quote
I'll repeat this one last time: normal cohorts don't get their master's Wis to HP.
What does that have to do with being able to buff the party by itself?
Simply put, that it's too much extras stacked in the loyal undead.

Quote from: Anomander
Forever and ever? Only on zombie levels.

Quote from: Anomander's character sheet
They lose the Single Actions Only ability of the Zombie and may select one Skill [Listen] to permanently become a class skill across all levels.
All levels, zombie or not.

Don't mind modifying it either way.

Then do so already. Remove the bonus HP. That should make things fairer in the big cohort picture.

Just to reiterate, we're talking about a fully fledged character you have as your minion. Feats, skills, class levels, the whole package. Even if two levels behind, it's absurd to then give it bonus HP on top of the rest.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 14, 2013, 08:06:12 PM
Quote
Simply put, that it's too much extras stacked in the loyal undead.
Ok.

Quote
All levels, zombie or not.
Must be a Thinking Zombie I didn't notice when we decided to modify them all.
Will fix it.


Otherwise, no problem.
Now, the original question?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 16, 2013, 09:10:51 AM
Are magical locations allowed? Specifically, a variant of the Frog God's Fane (Complete Scoundrel 145) which grants Skill Focus Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) for 2000 gp/mesata.

On Loyal Undead: If Jiang Shi no longer exists, why not limit it to the Zombie PrCs (or possibly a subset of them if that's still too much versatility)?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 16, 2013, 04:00:49 PM
Can I craft dolls with the mecha to make bigass dolls? Then craft weapons with the mecha for the bigass dolls?
Not really on the mood to calculate how that one works out. Just use normal dolls while in a mecha. The stance's effects get multiplied after all.

 Speaking of which, clarifying a thing in advance:
-Either your or your minion can actually pilot the mecha, not both at the same time. You only share what's on Shared existence and Captured Body.

Awesome story for your minion BTW.

Are magical locations allowed? Specifically, a variant of the Frog God's Fane (Complete Scoundrel 145) which grants Skill Focus Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) for 2000 gp/mesata.
As long as they're minor feats like that. I believe I had already saw somebody else with the Iron Will one somewhere among the characters done.

On Loyal Undead: If Jiang Shi no longer exists, why not limit it to the Zombie PrCs (or possibly a subset of them if that's still too much versatility)?
That sounds like a good idea, but for now maybe Anomander should just stick with the build he already has.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 16, 2013, 04:14:17 PM
... I am reminded of that creepy thing from Mask of the Betrayer. One of Many?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 16, 2013, 06:45:22 PM
Quote
Not really on the mood to calculate how that one works out. Just use normal dolls while in a mecha. The stance's effects get multiplied after all.
Cool with it. I was mostly concerned with the awezome factor and the rule that they cannot occupy the same 5ft space, though I guess the rule on mu scale conversion can apply despite their actual size not changing.

Quote
Speaking of which, clarifying a thing in advance:
-Either your or your minion can actually pilot the mecha, not both at the same time. You only share what's on Shared existence and Captured Body.
I sure hope so.
Which is why I was wondering how pilot switching works, in my case (two people more or less using the same body) and others (two/more people within the cockpit, on another's lap or otherwise.)

Quote
Awesome story for your minion BTW.
Thanks.  :)

Quote from: On Loyal Undead
That sounds like a good idea, but for now maybe Anomander should just stick with the build he already has.
It would be simpler for me to not have to do some things over but it isn't something I really care about.
If the feat is to be changed I can abide to it and make the necessary alterations to keep my desired combo working and improve on it, along with the necessary background story change if needs be.

As to limiting it to zombie prcs, it sounds fine but it doesn't fit much with my perception of Yoshika, or the taoist zombie.
Another issue with the idea is that zombie is a template. Unlike a base monster, the zombie template can be applied a bunch of base races so it could have the monster class levels it had before being raised into undeath.
I made a quick draft and it feels like the feat would be of a rather small worth considering the basic undead minion is already pretty decent. It would likely be more profitable to not convert it and have a cohort on top of having an undead minion.

Quote
... I am reminded of that creepy thing from Mask of the Betrayer. One of Many?
Never heard of it. I was thinking more about the cranium rats in Planescape Torment. Those were awesome.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 17, 2013, 10:22:03 AM

Are magical locations allowed? Specifically, a variant of the Frog God's Fane (Complete Scoundrel 145) which grants Skill Focus Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) for 2000 gp/mesata.
As long as they're minor feats like that. I believe I had already saw somebody else with the Iron Will one somewhere among the characters done.


That was me before we had our little arrangement regarding Shalantha's.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 17, 2013, 04:54:21 PM
Anomander: I'll probably be updating the IC tommorrow. You still have feats lacking, and your minion still has Transcendent and Three Treasures which I already said weren't aproved for the time being. There'll be opportunities for feat retraining later on, but for the next month or so I simply won't have much time to review any more of desire drive.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 17, 2013, 05:55:59 PM
Gotcha.
I've a few fixes and adjustments to make but between all the work I've got at the studio it's been hard to find time to get around to doing more than a few number corrections.
I'll be more free in about 7-9 hours. Tomorrow I'll be just as busy but I'll try to get everything done by the time you update us. Sorry for the trouble.

Edit: Oh, what kind of action does it take to switch who pilots the mecha?
I'm sure a mecha has only its normal lot of actions per turn no matter who pilots it - just to know how it goes between the would be pilots in the cockpit to be considered the pilot.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 18, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
Edit: Oh, what kind of action does it take to switch who pilots the mecha?
I'm sure a mecha has only its normal lot of actions per turn no matter who pilots it - just to know how it goes between the would be pilots in the cockpit to be considered the pilot.
I'll rule it's the same as geting in/out of the mecha. So geting out of the controls is a move, somebody else geting in is a standard. That should also conserve total actions of the mecha.

Gonna go put the last touches on Central Dome presentation now (that's where you choose to go from what I gathered).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 18, 2013, 03:00:02 PM
Do I have time to double the action time of the spot and listen checks and use Considering Cap to sub Know(N&R)?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 18, 2013, 03:19:47 PM
Excellent.

Before rolling perception-related rolls: If my character, the Raggamoffyn now, takes control of the cohort, does it gain virtual Controlled One levels?
In the case of a pilot with a body that isn't quite humanoid, what would you say is necessary in terms of body parts to control a mecha?
What is the Craft DC to make a doll? 20 for complex items?

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 18, 2013, 03:20:14 PM
I don't think I could have stepped on anyone. @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 18, 2013, 03:37:55 PM
I don't think I could have stepped on anyone. @_@

That was a joke. I mean, the 70ft woman gets a 1 on her spot check can't mean anything good.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 18, 2013, 03:41:51 PM
Do I have time to double the action time of the spot and listen checks and use Considering Cap to sub Know(N&R)?
No. Altough you could assume you have your Considering Cap to Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) by default.

Excellent.

Before rolling perception-related rolls: If my character, the Raggamoffyn now, takes control of the cohort, does it gain virtual Controlled One levels?
No. Your cohort level is capped. But seriously. Please stop overhauling your character every couple days.

In the case of a pilot with a body that isn't quite humanoid, what would you say is necessary in terms of body parts to control a mecha?
As long as you have some limbs that can hold and pull/push stuff you'll be fine.

What is the Craft DC to make a doll? 20 for complex items?
Yes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 18, 2013, 03:43:27 PM
Hey, the size of the mecha is even worse. :p

It's... what, 560 feet high? :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 18, 2013, 04:15:09 PM
Got it.

Also, how is damage dealt to the mecha when Mao pilots it?
It basically is the Gespent of the minion, but with the self-buff class feature of the nanoarmor, making a mecha with the nanoarmor.
Is damage dealt to the nanoarmor until it breaks with crits being dealt to the mecha or the pilot?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 18, 2013, 04:48:43 PM
Got it.

Also, how is damage dealt to the mecha when Mao pilots it?
It basically is the Gespent of the minion, but with the self-buff class feature of the nanoarmor, making a mecha with the nanoarmor.
Is damage dealt to the nanoarmor until it breaks with crits being dealt to the mecha or the pilot?

Nanoarmor is a mecha on itself, even if a small one. You cannot benefit from it inside a gespent just as a ship captain/real pilot cannot benefit from his real robot while inside his battleship just as you cannot benefit from dressing a chain shirt over a fullplate.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 18, 2013, 04:53:24 PM
Yikes. That was the concept's entire point.
Oh well. Still functional!
-Activate Plan B-
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 18, 2013, 05:37:25 PM
So, just to check, Spirits which double damage are roll twice, like criticals, right?

And if you're guaranteed to hit (e.g., Focus), do you roll to check if it crits? :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 19, 2013, 02:13:21 AM
Actually, I think if my nanoarmor is large sized and my mecha is small sized (gargantuan), I can actually use the muffyn's Wrap to wrap around the mecha.
That'd make the mecha within a mecha idea work... though in sort of a creepy way, I guess.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 19, 2013, 04:24:22 AM
Looking at the other posts, so I don't need to link my rolls to the IC post?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 19, 2013, 09:27:23 AM
When the DM calls for specific rolls, it's usually ok not to link them. When you roll something without being asked to (like an attack, or Aden's aid another checks, or similar) you generally want to link so the DM knows you rolled. At least that's my take on it.

On a related note, if Aden gets around to aiding everyone (not likely but not impossible), who's melee and who's ranged?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 19, 2013, 09:39:08 AM
Melee. Very, very much melee.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 19, 2013, 11:10:12 AM
So ranged it hurts.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 19, 2013, 03:53:44 PM
So, just to check, Spirits which double damage are roll twice, like criticals, right?

And if you're guaranteed to hit (e.g., Focus), do you roll to check if it crits? :huh
Yes. No.

Actually, I think if my nanoarmor is large sized and my mecha is small sized (gargantuan), I can actually use the muffyn's Wrap to wrap around the mecha.
That'd make the mecha within a mecha idea work... though in sort of a creepy way, I guess.
No. Mechas don't count as creatures for that kind of thing. Stop thinking so much.

Looking at the other posts, so I don't need to link my rolls to the IC post?
It makes my job easier if you link them in the IC thread.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 19, 2013, 04:17:50 PM
This has restored my desire to play PSOBB.

RACaseal it is. Because honestly, who doesn't like small robot girls with big guns? :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 19, 2013, 04:47:39 PM
Sort of all. I got breath weapons and manuvers for short to medium range. I didn't load up on attacks but I do deal +5d6 Fire per hit which it more than any mech's weapon before DR. The Arcane Pilot list sucks but there is some long range offense in there.

Mostly manuver/breath will be used through, so guess that makes me a short ranged area attacker.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 19, 2013, 06:07:12 PM
This has restored my desire to play PSOBB.

RACaseal it is. Because honestly, who doesn't like small robot girls with big guns? :D
Thats what I took way back
I recall liking the legs very much. The game makes me feel like playing again as well but I know I'd better not.
I spent way too much time getting everything. I recall that bad chainsaw sword took me the longest for some reason. In hindsight, why I spent so much time farming that crap is beyond me.  :rolleyes

Quote
No. Mechas don't count as creatures for that kind of thing. Stop thinking so much.
A mecha cannot grapple another mecha?
The Wrap class ability is a grapple special attack, it should be possible to use it with the Amplifier arsenal option if it cannot by default.

Though I wonder, since in nanoarmor you are in regular scale and you aren't really concealed in a box, does a pilot in nano armor need amplifiers to use its abilities?

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 19, 2013, 06:10:06 PM
That or FONewearl. So much fire.

... of course, it'll have to wait until tomorrow because I am an abject failure at remembering passwords etc and names I've used before. :banghead
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 19, 2013, 06:47:49 PM
I meant back on the gamecube with episode 1 & 2. That was awesome.
But now that you've made me learn about Blue Burst, I just might give it a try.
I could just hack my way through instead of wasting hours this time.  :cloud9

I loved the power of the FONewearl but they all looked too much like clowns to me. 'specially the males.
They could be made to look okay but it was always inferior to the caseals.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 19, 2013, 06:49:21 PM
Of course, the official servers are long gone, but... (http://www.schtserv.com)

Yeah, they look ridiculous. And all have platform shoes. Yet they can still be really tiny. Amusing, really.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 19, 2013, 08:03:25 PM
My two favorites were Hunewearl and whatever the Ranger female was...

I did not much care for Forces back then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 20, 2013, 05:17:02 PM
Just to make sure what I did can actually be done, can I use my Shield Other on my allies' mechas?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 03:42:26 PM
Quote
No. Mechas don't count as creatures for that kind of thing. Stop thinking so much.
A mecha cannot grapple another mecha?
The Wrap class ability is a grapple special attack, it should be possible to use it with the Amplifier arsenal option if it cannot by default.
Added clause in mecha basics to specifically forbid that since it seems it wasn't clear enough.


Though I wonder, since in nanoarmor you are in regular scale and you aren't really concealed in a box, does a pilot in nano armor need amplifiers to use its abilities?
If they couldn't normally be used while inside a mecha, yes.

Just to make sure what I did can actually be done, can I use my Shield Other on my allies' mechas?
If you are inside a mecha yourself with an Amplifier and remain inside it, yes.

Speaking of which, Blur spam from summons thus wouldn't work.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 22, 2013, 03:55:43 PM
Casting Blur on a mecha wouldn't work?

But can I still benefit from a cloak of displacement with my Nanoarmor?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 04:35:12 PM
Casting Blur on a mecha wouldn't work?

But can I still benefit from a cloak of displacement with my Nanoarmor?

Correct, because your cloak of displacement is being worn by the pilot conducting the mecha.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 22, 2013, 05:09:58 PM
So many rolls, what could they all be? @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 22, 2013, 06:43:47 PM
Gawd, that moment when I remember my extra immediate actions can only activate pilot feats.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 22, 2013, 06:45:24 PM
Aden is going to use Sacred Knowledge as his first action. How does that interact with the identification function of knowledges? Do I roll to ID the enemies and then roll again for SK or should I use the ID roll as the SK roll?

If the latter, How does choosing which enemies to use SK on work, since I don't know what types they are until I get the results of the ID check?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 22, 2013, 06:48:21 PM
... I am stumped by the fact this mecha has two HP totals listed. Think it's the second one that's accurate, though, so... I effectively have no mecha for the foreseeable future, given that I have to do an entire sidequest to get the thing back.

On the other hand, can be ejected to end up just 1 MU away, have a stance that gives Reach, and I work on the same scale as the things, so... at least I can get in an attack. Unless the reach from Hi-Tension blade is kept in feet, at which point I need to dump in another 8 heat points to get the same effect.

But hey, at least I can do SOMETHING. Probably. Then need to hopefully survive one round otherwise all that speed is useless (but hey, if that works, Uncontainable Dive) @_@

Anyway, this can wait until tomorrow, I need sleep.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 22, 2013, 06:53:49 PM
You only take 156 damage. The 240 was from 7 shots. They ignore half your DR but that still leaves you with DR 12. 12 * 7 = 84, 240 - 84 = 156, so you're still active, albeit with not many HP.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 22, 2013, 06:58:39 PM
You DF stance cannot get you more heat than your initiator level. It being 12, you could only get up to 7 extra heat into that stance. (5+7=12)
I think I recall reading a rule that area effect tricks when you aren't on Mu scale need to affect the target's entire space or they just don't work.

Otherwise. GUTS!
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 07:05:24 PM
I'll take the chance to remember that spirits are a free action to use at the start of your turn, and ones like valor/alert last for 1 minute until triggered.

You only take 156 damage. The 240 was from 7 shots. They ignore half your DR but that still leaves you with DR 12. 12 * 7 = 84, 240 - 84 = 156, so you're still active, albeit with not many HP.

Alas, that's from an old statblock that RD never cleaned up. If you check her upgrades, you'll notice her latest build didn't pick Plating, meaning her mecha only had basic super robot DR.

Aden is going to use Sacred Knowledge as his first action. How does that interact with the identification function of knowledges? Do I roll to ID the enemies and then roll again for SK or should I use the ID roll as the SK roll?

If the latter, How does choosing which enemies to use SK on work, since I don't know what types they are until I get the results of the ID check?
Roll first the main knowledge types for mechas (except for ships of course) to identify them, then pick and roll for sacred knowledge.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 22, 2013, 07:07:09 PM
Actually, I think my max HP is 125, due to the shield.

Unless Ferocity works on the mecha too. That leaves me 9 HP away from having the mecha literally fall to pieces, but that's enough to work with. Sentient implies it's alive... which could work. Would be hilarious if it did, but I'm not expecting any luck with this.

Or surviving another round with literally a third of the opponents with nobody else to focus on. >_>;
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 22, 2013, 07:10:15 PM
If you can hold it together until our turn, I can hit you with a healing spirit, as can Harald.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 22, 2013, 07:11:31 PM
Does it make a difference my AC would've gone up by 1 after mecha HP fell below 1/2, and another 1 after it fell below 1/4? :lmao

It may or may not help my survival that Amaterasu's personal AC isn't incredibly low  (unless they all have power) and that she has more HP than the mecha did. By a considerable margin. Like... about 140.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 22, 2013, 07:13:38 PM
Or surviving another round with literally a third of the opponents with nobody else to focus on. >_>;

I had this awesome plan to actually stop almost 1/3 of what hit you at least, but I need like 1 more immediate action than I have xD. And I forgot Counter only helps towards Pilot feats.
And then I'd be there next to you to split attention between :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 22, 2013, 07:14:18 PM
Ferocity should apply to the mecha. Its a self-buff class ability.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 07:16:56 PM
With your dodge and dex bonus dropped, the unknowns were hiting you quite easily. :p

Speaking of which, crits are suposed to hurt the pilot as well.

Your character should take 62 damage herself, as well as Abraxax. Will edit the IC.

Actually, I think my max HP is 125, due to the shield.

Unless Ferocity works on the mecha too. That leaves me 9 HP away from having the mecha literally fall to pieces, but that's enough to work with. Sentient implies it's alive... which could work. Would be hilarious if it did, but I'm not expecting any luck with this.

Good point with ferocity, it should definetely work with your super robot.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 22, 2013, 07:18:13 PM
Ferocity applying to the mecha certainly fits the theme.

Unfortunately, it's too late to swap Love for something I'd actually use (Berserk) and Friendship for extra Spirit. Thought I'd gotten rid of Love. @_@

So I'm still alive, barely, and I've taken damage myself.

... however this turns out, the result is going to look awesome.

Okay, new plan: Guts, Uncontainable Dive. XD

But I need sleep, so I'll do that tomorrow afternoon, along with a Low-End post.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 22, 2013, 07:20:23 PM
Quote
Though I wonder, since in nanoarmor you are in regular scale and you aren't really concealed in a box, does a pilot in nano armor need amplifiers to use its abilities?
If they couldn't normally be used while inside a mecha, yes.
The amplifier is to use the abilities you can use outside of a mecha at normal scale as mu scale effects while within one. But you are already in normal scale and have an ability to convert to Mu.
It is kinda strange than a dragon in super bikini-armor cannot breath fire without a specific add-on (unless its to have the breath work in Mu-scale when the overdrive is used), but alright.

Guts and you're as good as new. (almost)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 22, 2013, 07:21:23 PM
I'd probably say frightening before awesome. Heh.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 22, 2013, 07:25:30 PM
Fast Healing, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Question, given that 17+1d20, half on reflex, may not be overly useful at this point: can I apply Valour to Uncontainable Dive, or would it just apply to the next attack I make?

... right, sleep, involves closing the window.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 07:29:45 PM
Concerned Ninja Citizen:

(click to show/hide)

Fast Healing, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Question, given that 17+1d20, half on reflex, may not be overly useful at this point: can I apply Valour to Uncontainable Dive, or would it just apply to the next attack I make?

... right, sleep, involves closing the window.
Only next attack you make. Sleep well. Need. Sleep. Myself...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 22, 2013, 07:31:01 PM
I figured martial strikes count as attacks so you could use spirits that affect attacks with them?

I guess that would be a good thing to get clarified :/
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 07:34:11 PM
You can, but if the martial strike involves multiple attacks, only the first one will benefit from a one-use spirit like Valor.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 22, 2013, 07:37:58 PM
So the I guys (which there are 13 of) are Real Robots, the IIs are Divine and the IIIs are arcane.

I'm thinking I'll Sacred Knowledge the Is since there are more of them and my knowledge check for them is significantly higher than for the others. However, I'm open to alternative suggestions if anyone has them.

For reference, the SK I'm planning to use grants us +2 damage against the creature type I pick + another 2 for every 10 I beat the DC 15 check by. For the Is I'm expecting between a +6 and a +10.

Do we know who won initiative yet?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 07:44:51 PM
Unknown's best iniative seems to be a 23 with a +3 mod. Hugho has a +4 mod, so if he rolls a 19 or 20 you can still go first.

Pretty bad luck with that wand tough. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 22, 2013, 07:45:15 PM
I'm pretty sure it is them.
Monster in large numbers will always have an advantage on initiative against us, seeing how they roll more of it.
I think only two or three of us built to get a good initiative modifier, so the odds won't be too awesome.
Edit: Right. Hugo may yet save us all.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 22, 2013, 07:50:16 PM
I'm pretty sure it is them.
Monster in large numbers will always have an advantage on initiative against us, seeing how they roll more of it.

I purposedly gave the -6 iniative flaw to the mass produced ones to seek to counter that, meaning they couldn't get better than 19, leaving just the 3 arcane and 3 divines with a +3 bonus against the party. But the dice gods don't seem to be in your side this turn.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 22, 2013, 07:52:04 PM
Unreactive  :lmao

Or I'd be first.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 22, 2013, 07:59:00 PM
So the I guys (which there are 13 of) are Real Robots, the IIs are Divine and the IIIs are arcane.

I'm thinking I'll Sacred Knowledge the Is since there are more of them and my knowledge check for them is significantly higher than for the others. However, I'm open to alternative suggestions if anyone has them.

For reference, the SK I'm planning to use grants us +2 damage against the creature type I pick + another 2 for every 10 I beat the DC 15 check by. For the Is I'm expecting between a +6 and a +10.

Do we know who won initiative yet?

And I just realized the Is are probably mooks from the "mass produced" description. So is it worth it to get a damage bonus against mecha that have very few HP to begin with, or should I go for the divine or arcane (probably the Divine, since they're described as being bigger and tougher)?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 22, 2013, 08:18:40 PM
I mostly hope Aden has considered learning the Mass Conviction spell.
Its one of the best divine spells and it would be a terrible crime to ignore it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 22, 2013, 09:39:41 PM
Well I'll be damned.
That is one sweet roll Kuroi.

We're going first!

Otherwise, it looks like I cannot use Shield Other on other ppl until I pick the arsenal thingie, which I hadn't pre-initiative. So I'll have Yo-Ka use it on Mao instead.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 22, 2013, 09:55:48 PM
Well of course.

This is Hugo's first appearance on his mecha, so he has to look badass!

Heck, I'd have him ride on the mecha's shoulder for extra reference... Except that is like painting a target on Hugo's forehead.

EDIT: Osle, I took the liberty of assuming that Invisible Spell does not VISUALLY produce concealment effects, i.e. they're there but they don't look like they are. I figure that is significantly LESS awkward than saying "suddenly Yatagarasu disappears". She'd still be under full concealment (because behind a wall), and should still block LoE but not LoS. I hope that's okay with you?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 02:51:22 AM
Please tell me this wall is to the left of the Yatagarasu and not between it and the enemies to the right. Because that would cost me the ability to plough through seven enemies en route to the ship. :(

Also not be particularly useful when my response will be  'run into iron'. @_@

... it only counts as going through them once, even though I take up several squares, if I'm not going back and forth, right?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 03:15:45 AM
^@Kuroi: When casting area spells or making effects that take up space, it might be a good idea to point out which area they actually occupy on the map.
You don't want Osle wasting time figuring out where he's supposed to put them.

@Raineh: For creatures, you gotta move through opposite edges of a creature's space to count as moving through them and deal damage.
Same goes with objects when going through obstacles, like the ground, walls, trees, mountains and so forth, any space you move into is subject to the damage.
Not ending your movement on an obstacle is mostly in case one attempts to get through them but fails to deal enough damage to wreck it and keep going.
I really should make that part clearer in the maneuvers' description. Will do tomorrow maybe when I've more time.

If after going through their space once you change direction and get back in and entirely through again, you'd deal damage twice.

Osle: I am piloting a mecha but I've also got my nanoarmor on. Do I get the better of my nanoarmor or mecha's bonus to saves or do they somehow stack (for some reason)?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 03:42:22 AM
You give the maneuver the ability to change direction, but require going through opposite edges? Why isn't 'go through their square' enough? Surely they would get smashed through either way? :???

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 04:09:51 AM
It should be even easier to accomplish because of the ability to change direction.
Mostly because the idea wasn't turning the initiator into an area effect. This is some kind of special trample-like attack that can be done no matter the initiator's size. Instead of asking that you cover the entire space during your movement, I only require going through the target's space and I consider an pass through opposite edges to represent the deed well enough to make decent holes through a target.

In your case it shouldn't be much of a problem considering how huge you are.

If osle thinks just touching a part of their space is good enough to inflict damage, I wouldn't mind changing it. As is, it better reflects how I personally see the maneuver.

Otherwise: 1:12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDnxoNgio3M)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 23, 2013, 04:10:46 AM
It sounds like it works the same as the Area weapon property on melee mecha weapons. What with having to basically pass through the middle of the target in order to count as a hit. I would say its a difference between grazing and 'smashing through' them :)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 04:17:36 AM
Woah.
Gotta agree it is similar. I don't require passing through the center of a larger target's occupied space, so it is more or less easier to pull off.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 23, 2013, 04:25:18 AM
Here's a question.

If I'm in my mecha, but also in my Nano Armor, and my mecha suffers a critical hit, does the damage go through to me still or instead to my Nano Armor?

Oh man that actually brings to mind more questions in regards to what of my Moon Vanguard stuff I can use on my Real Robot if I'm in my Nano Armor in my Real Robot. Like with what ", and self-buff class abilities for fighting," says. I know Strikes don't affect me, but what about Counters or Boosts or Stances from Moon Vangaurd's martial schools as they could count under that description? Or the Overdrive class ability (Altho the only benefits would be recharging ammo/hp/energy/ect, but the extra feat and two things recharged from Advanced Overdrive could be something)?  :???

And how does hiding via the mecha Stealth property work in combat? Are there penalties if you moved or can you not move before doing it? Is it an action? Can you hide after a melee attack, or only after a ranged attack?
Never really used Hide in combat before...Haven't had to think of this stuff.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 05:10:31 AM
I'm basically asking whether moving forwards so I'm in the bottom right corner, AKA completely on top of everything, and then heading straight up to the ship would count to hit everything in that area.

450 MU speed with the maneuver should be enough. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 08:55:58 AM
Quote
And how does hiding via the mecha Stealth property work in combat? Are there penalties if you moved or can you not move before doing it? Is it an action? Can you hide after a melee attack, or only after a ranged attack?
Never really used Hide in combat before...Haven't had to think of this stuff.
Just look at the Hide skill description.
Nacht System only helps you hide anywhere without the need of cover/concealment.

@Raineh: You certainly would. Though I'd suggest a minimum elevation on the first charge to avoid clearing all the forest along the way.
With your movement speed, it would pay to literally think outside the box. You could, say, ram through the group on the bottom left side, keep going for a bit, then change direction to go back through them but with a slight upward angle (not elevation). You could end your movement aligned horizontally with the ship, but far off the right side of the map. You direction change would need to be have enough of an elevation angle to go through the arcane unknown then get high enough to avoid razing the bottom right corner of the city, which is quite doable.
You wouldn't get to hit a target as part of the charge since you'd choose to move through the last target, so no hit to deal damage without a save to one o' them.
Do note that it gets expensive in energy to move so much, though.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
I'm not sure how you're suggesting I move, since I think it puts me inside the floor at one point/have a different starting position than can be afforded with Uncontainable Dive being a full round action.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 23, 2013, 10:43:37 AM
Please tell me this wall is to the left of the Yatagarasu and not between it and the enemies to the right. Because that would cost me the ability to plough through seven enemies en route to the ship. :(

Also not be particularly useful when my response will be  'run into iron'. @_@

... it only counts as going through them once, even though I take up several squares, if I'm not going back and forth, right?

I'm afraid I can't do that, RD.

Here's the thought process:

Yatagarasu is dangerously damaged. She may be in risk of destruction if she gets another few good hits in.

No way are we going to kill EVERY POTENTIAL ENEMY IN ONE ROUND.

Yatagarasu, therefore, needs cover, lest she ends up a wreck.

Assuming there's enough space to do that, the idea is to wrap Yata in a reverse C-shape around her current position at least as tall as she is, so it covers her from fire from both sides BUT doesn't trap her (of course, I'm counting on the enemy not catching on to the idea of thrusting up first and firing, but even so she'd get partial cover).

Seriously, just because it's better to heal out of combat rather than in doesn't mean it's a good idea to get yourself wrecked to win a battle.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 10:49:58 AM
...


 :banghead


Maybe, just maybe, that was not a good idea. You have half surrounded a mecha with something that it cannot see. Not to mention Guts, regenerative abilities, the machine in question being very fast, your being an intelligence officer, and the whole Monster of Legend deal. There's hardly a shortage of reasons to not immediately block off three directions to 'protect' me.  >:(
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 23, 2013, 11:47:03 AM
Which I would be delighted to share over data system, though I have neglected to do so in my post.

You'll have to remember I can't keep tabs on everything that everyone can do. Hell, I doubt Oslecamo can, and he's created most of the homebrew we're using in this campaign in the first place.

Natural 20s happen. Crap happens. Even considering Spirits, your machine AND the flagship we're riding were almost downed in a single round of surprise attack here. And AGAIN, just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. Maybe, just maybe, the Yatagarasu doesn't down all seven machines in one go. One missed attack roll or two is all it would take.

You may well take your issues with Hugo ICly, because I'm not withdrawing my action anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 23, 2013, 11:50:17 AM
I just realized I may have over looked something. My aura of fire will probably murder my Funnel. >.<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 11:53:13 AM
... meh, guess I'll just leave. Was fun.

No point staying if someone's going to do things for my own good without asking. Or looking to see if they're even necessary.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 01:33:41 PM
I agree that the strategy was quite less than optimal.
Raineh is probably specializing in dealing damage and preventing her from doing her job is counter productive, especially if she doesn't know there is a wall either.

It might have been better to but the wall somewhere else for her to retreat to after dealing damage. Then send her the information of where she can bunk.
It would also be a good strategy to put it down around her after she uses Fall of Great Stars to protect her while she's out for a round.

As is, I think she can begin to charge up a creeping sun. It would have to be carefully aimed not to wreck the city and sent into mid air it would also spare the landscape.

Quote
I'm not sure how you're suggesting I move, since I think it puts me inside the floor at one point/have a different starting position than can be afforded with Uncontainable Dive being a full round action.
You are currently at ground level. You only gain in elevation through the process so there is no point you'd get inside the floor.
Not sure what you mean with different starting position and how it being a fullround action changes anything.

I said you could go to the left and plow through the group there, then keep going a bit to get a good angle for the direction change (the angle needed to go through the arcane unknown), then go back up-right with some elevation to go through them again, trying to nab at least the arcane unknown. Keep going up-right, going off the map until you get in line with the ship.
But you could keep it simple and do as you suggested. I'm just stating a way to get through a group of enemies twice instead of once.

As to you dropping out for this, I'd say the offense is quite minor. battlefield control and support groups don't necessarily always play into you hands, which makes even more sense at first seeing how the group members aren't yet used to work with each other.
But it's your game too and you may do as you wish.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 02:00:40 PM
As to you dropping out for this, I'd say the offense is quite minor. battlefield control and support groups don't necessarily always play into you hands, which makes even more sense at first seeing how the group members aren't yet used to work with each other.

Deciding that I need shielding, despite the stuff on this discussion, and that I ought to sit tight behind an iron wall rather than do anything (or waste my entire turn on simply moving to the ship, rather than moving and dealing some damage, however minor), and then providing said shielding with the justification that we can't kill everything at once, therefore the ability to fully heal as a free action shouldn't be used? No point in staying around if I'm prevented from doing anything because it might be dangerous.

Hell, what use is the cover meant to provide if I'm just going to move out of it?

Just... not going to enjoy taking part if the result of working out what to do is 'no, sit tight because there's enemies around and they might do something'.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 02:14:49 PM
There is always the possibility to charge a Creeping Sun to smack their faces. Maybe with a Shooting Sun.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 02:27:52 PM
I doubt the enemy is obligingly going to position itself right where I can shoot it. Also, can't use Creeping Sun anyway (takes a swift action to activate a stance, that's... a swift action. Also bars red giant). Chose Uncontainable Dive for a reason. Fullround action, though, so I can't get out AND use it. :/
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 23, 2013, 02:33:42 PM
Oh for the love of...

Raineh, this is the first combat we're having EVER in this game. NOTHING prevents you from going up ICly and complaining about Hugo's strategy - even if you won't like the way he responds to it (he is NOT a nice guy).

As it is, there are a number of ways you can contribute to combat. If you have ranged weapons at all, you can fire from your position. You could delay your action so that the enemy wastes bullets trying to take you down only for them to bounce harmlessly off the wall, then leave cover and let loose the freaking dogs of war. Hell, if we were going by normal initiative, you would be DEAD LAST at this point, and I have serious doubts the enemy would NOT take the opportunity to down you, given your state.

And again, I CANNOT keep tabs on everything that everyone can do.

Like I said, Hugo is more than happy to offer you the exact position of the wall (which thanks to us being in mechas can be done as a free action without the enemy learning of it). Others could make use of that cover, too. You could pick it up and hurl it at the enemy for all I care. I am NOT, by any means, telling you what to do with it.

I am just saying: the cover is there. That was my action and these are my reasons for putting it up. You're free to complain ICly all you want, but seriously, there is no point in arguing in OOC about it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 23, 2013, 02:38:06 PM
Wow, talk about drama.

Isn't there three groups to attack? Just saying...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 02:51:09 PM
... someone remind me how big each square is (I appear to have forgotten >.<). I may have worked something out.

Also, is Hell's Artificial Sun usable at range? It looks like it should be from the range entry, but I'm not terribly sure.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 23, 2013, 02:56:38 PM
You could pick it up and hurl it at the enemy for all I care.

This would be an awesome thing to do.

And squares are 5ft/mu I believe.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 23, 2013, 03:02:22 PM
Quote
Also, is Hell's Artificial Sun usable at range? It looks like it should be from the range entry, but I'm not terribly sure.
Yep.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 03:07:13 PM
Excellent.

New plan: drop a sun on that corner.

... and now I have another inane question: when rolling damage from effects, it's rolled for each individual creature, right? @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 23, 2013, 03:19:04 PM
Depends on the effect. Area effects (like fireball or a dragon's breath weapon) are rolled once and the result applied to everyone in the area. Anything that makes multiple attacks (like scorcging ray, magic missile, or a mecha weapon with the area property) roll damage for each attack seperately. 
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 03:21:24 PM
... I am going to assume that dropping a miniature star on something counts as an area effect. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 23, 2013, 03:22:21 PM
Just looked at the maneuver description and it is an area effect.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 03:44:03 PM
Right.

... I apologise for how I was acting earlier. Exam tomorrow and my neighbour doing DIY in the morning has made me even more snappish than usual. >.<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 23, 2013, 03:44:29 PM
If I understood what happened right, the forest around the city was a hologram and disappeared when the ambush was sprung so there is no nearby foliage to worry about nuking. Except for the stuff within the city walls.

And now that I think about it, I think I remember we were told that the forest around the city was cut down, so by fact that it was right up to the walls when we arrived was probably a hint that something was up  :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 04:09:44 PM
Don't think I screwed anything up. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9809.msg165796#msg165796)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 23, 2013, 04:17:19 PM
I'm confused.

What is the initiative order?  :-\
People are just going and I don't know whats going on.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 23, 2013, 04:20:42 PM
Um... because things would grind to a dead halt if everyone had to take things in order in this sort of environment, we're going by 'group that wins initiative gets to act first'.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 23, 2013, 04:23:13 PM
:O

Is that how it works?
Cause I was over here waiting >>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 23, 2013, 04:23:23 PM
Raineh is correct. This is how Oslecamo runs his PbPs. Initiative only determines which "side" goes first. Within a side, actions happen pretty much in the order they are posted.

This is so that things don't get bogged down when one poster can't log on for a day right when their initiative comes up.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 23, 2013, 07:26:35 PM
If I understood what happened right, the forest around the city was a hologram and disappeared when the ambush was sprung so there is no nearby foliage to worry about nuking. Except for the stuff within the city walls.

And now that I think about it, I think I remember we were told that the forest around the city was cut down, so by fact that it was right up to the walls when we arrived was probably a hint that something was up  :lmao

The whole place screamed ambush as it was. Hugo objected on going to Central Dome first because any enemy inside would have the terrain advantage and hours of preparation ahead of their ETA.

Honestly, I'm surprised the whole damn place isn't rigged with anti-mecha mines.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 02:40:45 AM
Everywhere is boobytrapped, probably.

I can play minesweeper if the need comes up. Mines are mostly fire. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 24, 2013, 04:26:20 AM
Well, probably would have had to deal with it soon enough anyways.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 24, 2013, 02:11:08 PM
No need for an actual team member to play minesweeper. Aden has a maneuver that replicates summon monster VI. We can get an elemental or a bralani or something to do our trapfinding.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
Gah two pages since I last checked! If I miss any pertinent questions let me know.

EDIT: Osle, I took the liberty of assuming that Invisible Spell does not VISUALLY produce concealment effects, i.e. they're there but they don't look like they are. I figure that is significantly LESS awkward than saying "suddenly Yatagarasu disappears". She'd still be under full concealment (because behind a wall), and should still block LoE but not LoS. I hope that's okay with you?

She tecnically doesn't get concealment because the unknowns can see trough just fine, perhaps she gets cover depending on the angle, but line of effect is indeed blocked if an attack would go right trough.


Osle: I am piloting a mecha but I've also got my nanoarmor on. Do I get the better of my nanoarmor or mecha's bonus to saves or do they somehow stack (for some reason)?
Just the maneuvers from the nanoarmor. Again, nanoarmor is a very small mecha, a piece of gear with its own stats that borrows abilities from you, not a self-buff. Otherwise this will end with you trying to cram mechas of diferent sizes inside each other to try to stack all their abilities.

Here's a question.

If I'm in my mecha, but also in my Nano Armor, and my mecha suffers a critical hit, does the damage go through to me still or instead to my Nano Armor?

Oh man that actually brings to mind more questions in regards to what of my Moon Vanguard stuff I can use on my Real Robot if I'm in my Nano Armor in my Real Robot. Like with what ", and self-buff class abilities for fighting," says. I know Strikes don't affect me, but what about Counters or Boosts or Stances from Moon Vangaurd's martial schools as they could count under that description? Or the Overdrive class ability (Altho the only benefits would be recharging ammo/hp/energy/ect, but the extra feat and two things recharged from Advanced Overdrive could be something)?  :???
See above.

I'll let overdrive work with the "bigger" mecha. But you still can't use the nanoarmor's HP/DR/saves/AC/weapons/arsenal.

I'll make a special exception for the bigger mecha geting the youkai-forged blades from your nanoarmor however.

And how does hiding via the mecha Stealth property work in combat? Are there penalties if you moved or can you not move before doing it? Is it an action? Can you hide after a melee attack, or only after a ranged attack?
Never really used Hide in combat before...Haven't had to think of this stuff.

It works just regular hiding, except you don't need cover/concealment.

Assuming there's enough space to do that, the idea is to wrap Yata in a reverse C-shape around her current position at least as tall as she is, so it covers her from fire from both sides BUT doesn't trap her (of course, I'm counting on the enemy not catching on to the idea of thrusting up first and firing, but even so she'd get partial cover).

Yata is gargantuan. Iron Wall is up to one 5-ft. square/level. With CL 12 you get 12 of said squares.  But even amplified to mecha scale, you would need 16 such squares worth of Iron Wall to properly cover just one of Yata's side, let alone three.


If I understood what happened right, the forest around the city was a hologram and disappeared when the ambush was sprung so there is no nearby foliage to worry about nuking. Except for the stuff within the city walls.
Not the whole forest, just some parts over the unknowns waiting in ambush.

And now that I think about it, I think I remember we were told that the forest around the city was cut down, so by fact that it was right up to the walls when we arrived was probably a hint that something was up  :lmao
That's the space they cut around the tower. The walls were kept moving outwards to circle the new buildings and bio-gardens.


If I understood what happened right, the forest around the city was a hologram and disappeared when the ambush was sprung so there is no nearby foliage to worry about nuking. Except for the stuff within the city walls.

And now that I think about it, I think I remember we were told that the forest around the city was cut down, so by fact that it was right up to the walls when we arrived was probably a hint that something was up  :lmao

The whole place screamed ambush as it was. Hugo objected on going to Central Dome first because any enemy inside would have the terrain advantage and hours of preparation ahead of their ETA.

Honestly, I'm surprised the whole damn place isn't rigged with anti-mecha mines.
Well, you know the enemy went to the trouble of taking over the Central Dome aparently in one piece. Rigging the place with high-grade explosives would thus be probably counter-productive to whatever their objective is. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 04:34:10 PM
Eighty feet for one side? O_o
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 04:40:15 PM
I meant 16 5-feet/mu squares to cover one side (as a gargantuan creature space is a 20 by 20 square). Changed in the previous post as well.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 04:43:57 PM
Yet, heightwise, it's (accurately speaking) vastly above that. The wonders of abstraction: so many clipping issues. Same deal with long creatures and somehow fitting into these squares. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 05:06:08 PM
Yet, heightwise, it's (accurately speaking) vastly above that. The wonders of abstraction: so many clipping issues. Same deal with long creatures and somehow fitting into these squares. :lmao

For the record, I assume that tall creatures can and do crouch to their "minimum" height in order to fit in lower passages and take cover behind obstacles when being shot at and stuff, whitout need of actual actions.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Heheh.

... I think the main drawback to Divine Flame, aside from Heat, is the fact half its maneuvers are so friendly fire prone. @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 05:27:12 PM
I took that for a given. I am not adding stuff from the nanoarmor to the mecha but was mostly wondering if nanoarmor stuff that affects the pilot personally would still affect it while it pilots the mecha, like the bonus to saves. Or if the nanoarmor's nanomachines would heal Mao since they share their hp through One with the Machine.
If I get the maneuvers, I don't think I can use them since they require the youkai blades, which are integrated into the nanoarmor. I can use the android's racial ability to keep one of the blades while out of the nanoarmor but I'm not sure I can keep using one/both of them while in a mecha unless they are self-buffs or the like, since I could use them within the mecha at normal scale.

Quote
... I think the main drawback to Divine Flame, aside from Heat, is the fact half its maneuvers are so friendly fire prone. @_@
Oh, definitely!

On the nuclearly bright side of things, Mao and Bahamut are immune to nuclear damage so you could blast away when they are tanking at the frontline.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 05:29:49 PM
Why... why did I pick Rocket Dive instead of Mega Flare? ;-;

... admittedly, still friendly fire prone, but it would haev given me a ranged option beyond 'SPHERE O' DOOM'. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
Mega Flare is hawt, but you probably took it to teleport-smack people with maneuver fusion via Yatagarasu Dive.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 05:41:55 PM
I took that for a given. I am not adding stuff from the nanoarmor to the mecha but was mostly wondering if nanoarmor stuff that affects the pilot personally would still affect it while it pilots the mecha, like the bonus to saves. Or if the nanoarmor's nanomachines would heal Mao since they share their hp through One with the Machine.
Aren't you already using One with the Machine with the mecha itself? Otherwise it won't really last long.

If I get the maneuvers, I don't think I can use them since they require the youkai blades, which are integrated into the nanoarmor. I can use the android's racial ability to keep one of the blades while out of the nanoarmor but I'm not sure I can keep using one/both of them while in a mecha unless they are self-buffs or the like, since I could use them within the mecha at normal scale.
Netherworld Gardener gives you two youkai-forged blades. Not three. If you choose your integrated weaponry to be one of them, then there's only one left for your suit of nanoarmor.

But I'll make a special exception for the bigger mecha geting the youkai-forged blades from your nanoarmor as well then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 05:47:25 PM
Given my movement abilities, that idea probably wasn't so... hot.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 05:58:54 PM
Aye, I'm using OwtM on both the nanoarmor and the mecha so if she dies they all go to pieces.
Not sure why it wouldn't last long since it remains in effect until she spends a fullround action to stop it (or miniaturizes the nanoarmor/leaves the mecha, I guess)

I get what you mean with the integrated weaponry. I though it'd be as if she left the machine and took the sword off it while doing so.

Thank you for that exception. Though I think I should use the mecha's stats for it though instead of the nano's. The nano has a bunch of buffs to it and is large while the mecha is small and doesn't have much.

Quote
Given my movement abilities, that idea probably wasn't so... hot.
Aye. Though its relative. If someone goes in a building, teleports off or otherwise makes himself very hard to reach or if you're getting low on energy for super movement, you could get to them despite almost all obstacles.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 06:22:36 PM
Aye, I'm using OwtM on both the nanoarmor and the mecha so if she dies they all go to pieces.
Not sure why it wouldn't last long since it remains in effect until she spends a fullround action to stop it (or miniaturizes the nanoarmor/leaves the mecha, I guess)
Excellent point on One with the Machine being useable with multiple mechas at the same time since it has no actual duration (or even range limitation), fixed that so you cannot use it again while you remain connected to a specific mecha.

I get what you mean with the integrated weaponry. I though it'd be as if she left the machine and took the sword off it while doing so.
You can't just detach nano-armor integrated weapons.

Thank you for that exception. Though I think I should use the mecha's stats for it though instead of the nano's. The nano has a bunch of buffs to it and is large while the mecha is small and doesn't have much.
Nice attempt to get free upgrade points on the mecha. No. If you want to use upgraded youkai-forged blades at full power, get in the frontline personally.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 06:25:06 PM
What? I'm asking the opposite. If you say no and make me use the nano instead of the mecha, you're giving me the upgrades on it while on the mecha.

...Though if you insist, who am I to complain.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 24, 2013, 06:49:36 PM
Assuming there's enough space to do that, the idea is to wrap Yata in a reverse C-shape around her current position at least as tall as she is, so it covers her from fire from both sides BUT doesn't trap her (of course, I'm counting on the enemy not catching on to the idea of thrusting up first and firing, but even so she'd get partial cover).

Yata is gargantuan. Iron Wall is up to one 5-ft. square/level. With CL 12 you get 12 of said squares.  But even amplified to mecha scale, you would need 16 such squares worth of Iron Wall to properly cover just one of Yata's side, let alone three.


If I understood what happened right, the forest around the city was a hologram and disappeared when the ambush was sprung so there is no nearby foliage to worry about nuking. Except for the stuff within the city walls.

And now that I think about it, I think I remember we were told that the forest around the city was cut down, so by fact that it was right up to the walls when we arrived was probably a hint that something was up  :lmao

The whole place screamed ambush as it was. Hugo objected on going to Central Dome first because any enemy inside would have the terrain advantage and hours of preparation ahead of their ETA.

Honestly, I'm surprised the whole damn place isn't rigged with anti-mecha mines.
Well, you know the enemy went to the trouble of taking over the Central Dome aparently in one piece. Rigging the place with high-grade explosives would thus be probably counter-productive to whatever their objective is. :P

Actually, my CL for that is... 14, I think?

12 CL from classes + 2 Signature Spell (assuming Shadow Illusion benefits from CL increases to the original spell).

Either way I should have picked a different wall. Forgot that Shadow Illusion only offers mimicry up to one level LESS than the original spell.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 24, 2013, 07:53:40 PM
What? I'm asking the opposite. If you say no and make me use the nano instead of the mecha, you're giving me the upgrades on it while on the mecha.

I said the contrary. Treat the youkai-forged blades gained by the mecha as small-sized unupgraded weapons. If you want upgraded youkai-forged blades, fight in your nano-armor outside another mecha.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 08:07:49 PM
...Yes. That is how I asked for it to work. Not sure how you read the polar opposite.

Quote
But I'll make a special exception for the bigger mecha geting the youkai-forged blades from your nanoarmor as well then.
What you wrote up there could be interpreted as getting the nanoarmor's blades as is, which is why I requested to only use the mecha's stats instead of the nano's.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 08:11:36 PM
On a less mechanical note, the last piece of action Amaterasu may have seen in a long time is possibly 'how much can I engulf' using Hell's Artificial Sun from inside Yatagarasu. If she chucked everything she had into it (right now), yielding a 150 MU radius sphere. Or 1800 feet across.

Assuming that maneuver recovery in backstory was playing by game mechanics, otherwise it's effectively 'how long does it take until nothing is left to burn'. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 08:28:07 PM
Now that I think about it, I should probably put a cap on how many maneuvers can be burned into it. Maybe seven or eight, considering the Septentrion effect.
That or make the heat gain cumulative, but it would probably get too expensive to keep the fire burnin'.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 08:30:46 PM
I think that's six on top of the startup itself, anyway. :p

Also, why cap it? There's not much point, unless you plan to have a map sixty squares across and your allies aren't endangered by something that seems to devour the very scenery :|
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 24, 2013, 08:46:41 PM
Don't want to give rise to the possible plot hook taking the form of a mad Divine Flame user that keeps recovering maneuvers to increase its artificial sun's area round after round until the entire world baths in flames, with the goal of making a star as big as the actual sun.

As awesome as it sounds.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 24, 2013, 08:53:29 PM
Aww... but giant flaming sun! :(

But seriously, there's not going to be much of a reason for it to ever get that big in a fight, everything's either dead or out of the area by that point.  @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 24, 2013, 09:02:29 PM
MASSIVE intimidation points though.

"I have something that should by all rights be incinerating the whole fucking atmosphere and I'm not afraid to use it! You, however, should be writing your wills."
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 25, 2013, 01:04:57 AM
Instead of the nanomachine's current youkai blade (roche sabers), I took plasma swords for the mecha since it doesn't have the same arsenal level.
I'll assume that fits your vision of how it is meant to work.

The android's OwtM ability is now based upon entering a mecha rather than while piloting it, which leaves the possibility that it remains in effect even if it leaves the mecha. If another android uses OwtM on the same mecha, what happens?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 26, 2013, 10:22:50 AM
The android's OwtM ability is now based upon entering a mecha rather than while piloting it, which leaves the possibility that it remains in effect even if it leaves the mecha. If another android uses OwtM on the same mecha, what happens?

Nothing. The duration is based on the android piloting the mecha. If it isn't piloting the mecha, the duration is thus zero.

Speaking of which, you're using one fullround action and two standard actions this turn. One is from Ending Sign. Where's the other coming from?

Also clarified that emerald golemaic weapon only works on willing targets.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 26, 2013, 01:09:56 PM
Trying to garden the heart of a star may qualify as the most futile act of horticulture ever attempted, unless you like flaming vegetation. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 26, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
Quote
Speaking of which, you're using one fullround action and two standard actions this turn. One is from Ending Sign. Where's the other coming from?
Clearly I haven't been sleepin enough. Nevermind that fullround action. Got a move action left but I've nothing to use it for.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 27, 2013, 09:34:12 PM
I disappeared for the weekend and forgot to keep checking here but I guess I didn't get left behind like I was worried would happen.
Heheh, anime convention  :D

Osle: I am piloting a mecha but I've also got my nanoarmor on. Do I get the better of my nanoarmor or mecha's bonus to saves or do they somehow stack (for some reason)?
Just the maneuvers from the nanoarmor. Again, nanoarmor is a very small mecha, a piece of gear with its own stats that borrows abilities from you, not a self-buff. Otherwise this will end with you trying to cram mechas of diferent sizes inside each other to try to stack all their abilities.

Here's a question.

If I'm in my mecha, but also in my Nano Armor, and my mecha suffers a critical hit, does the damage go through to me still or instead to my Nano Armor?

Oh man that actually brings to mind more questions in regards to what of my Moon Vanguard stuff I can use on my Real Robot if I'm in my Nano Armor in my Real Robot. Like with what ", and self-buff class abilities for fighting," says. I know Strikes don't affect me, but what about Counters or Boosts or Stances from Moon Vangaurd's martial schools as they could count under that description? Or the Overdrive class ability (Altho the only benefits would be recharging ammo/hp/energy/ect, but the extra feat and two things recharged from Advanced Overdrive could be something)?  :???
See above.

I'll let overdrive work with the "bigger" mecha. But you still can't use the nanoarmor's HP/DR/saves/AC/weapons/arsenal.

I'll make a special exception for the bigger mecha geting the youkai-forged blades from your nanoarmor however.

So I get my youkai blades from the nanoarmor on my Real Robot if I'm in the armor when in the Robot and can use the maneuvers from my MV's chosen schools as well? (Prolly with using the same rules as the pilot martial schools in regards to energy costs and not having to recover maneuvers?) That is awesome and actually makes me not feel like using my Real Robot in combat to be a nerf compared to my Nano Armor because I neglected it in char creation  :lmao

Edit:
Trying to garden the heart of a star may qualify as the most futile act of horticulture ever attempted, unless you like flaming vegetation. XD
Omg when did Anomander become a space gardener too? D:
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 27, 2013, 09:44:23 PM
I disappeared for the weekend and forgot to keep checking here but I guess I didn't get left behind like I was worried would happen.
Heheh, anime convention  :D

Huh, you too? Well, mine wasn't specifically anime. Still. I (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/232010.jpg) got (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/231910.jpg) stuff (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/seibah10.jpg). ... there is also a model of Gunbuster that I need to assemble.

Quote
Edit:
Trying to garden the heart of a star may qualify as the most futile act of horticulture ever attempted, unless you like flaming vegetation. XD
Omg when did Anomander become a space gardener too? D:

I'm not sure what schools he has. I think there's Divine Flame in there?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 27, 2013, 09:56:48 PM
There was a con this past Sunday where I live too, but I didn't go for a number of reasons.

I find it funny there were apparently multiple anime cons at the same time all over the place. Coincidence?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on May 27, 2013, 09:57:07 PM
Trying to garden the heart of a star may qualify as the most futile act of horticulture ever attempted, unless you like flaming vegetation. XD
Omg when did Anomander become a space gardener too? D:

I'm not sure what schools he has. I think there's Divine Flame in there?

Divine Flame got taken out in favor of Desire Drive (I think that's the name), the tohou Daoist school he wrote for the hermit class.

I think his Moon Vanguard schools are that and ancient temple.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 27, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
The one I was attending apparently had Shinichiro Watanabe at it? I just had no idea where the hell the sign was saying he was supposed to be. :lmao

... I find it odd there was about a billion different Gundam models for sale, and just this one lone Super Robot in the middle of it all. Oh well, it's mine now.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 27, 2013, 10:07:56 PM
...which Super Robot was it?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 27, 2013, 10:08:27 PM
Yep. Originally it was Divine Flame for Moon Vanguard (Its perfect. Energy costs and Heat gains. Very thematic.) with Ancient Temple as the Gifted for War.
Then switched to to Desire Drive/Ancient Temple instead to let others get the lead on damage. I was much stronger with the older build but I'd rather take more of a backseat for this one
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 27, 2013, 10:09:55 PM
...which Super Robot was it?

Gunbuster. What's especially weird is the only other models at the stall were Megaman stuff.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 27, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
CONSPIRACY! IT'S ALL CONNECTED! BRAINWAVES! TINFOIL HATS!!

*runs around randomly punching stuff*
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 27, 2013, 10:26:26 PM
I disappeared for the weekend and forgot to keep checking here but I guess I didn't get left behind like I was worried would happen.
Heheh, anime convention  :D

Huh, you too? Well, mine wasn't specifically anime. Still. I (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/232010.jpg) got (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/231910.jpg) stuff (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/seibah10.jpg). ... there is also a model of Gunbuster that I need to assemble.

That is an amazing Flandre. There is a seriously terrible lack of Touhou at the con I went to and I CANNOT justify spending almost $200 on a single wall scroll.....Just seeing that made me really depressed.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 27, 2013, 10:34:20 PM
I disappeared for the weekend and forgot to keep checking here but I guess I didn't get left behind like I was worried would happen.
Heheh, anime convention  :D

Huh, you too? Well, mine wasn't specifically anime. Still. I (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/232010.jpg) got (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/231910.jpg) stuff (http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/13/36/61/seibah10.jpg). ... there is also a model of Gunbuster that I need to assemble.

That is an amazing Flandre. There is a seriously terrible lack of Touhou at the con I went to and I CANNOT justify spending almost $200 on a single wall scroll.....Just seeing that made me really depressed.

Huh, that Flandre one only cost me £15. Pretty much the only piece of Touhou merchandise at the place. Even a deplorable lack of cosplay--two Marisas, an awesome Remilia, and a Youmu.

On the other hand, I saw Haku, (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090408133961/vocaloid/images/9/91/Haku-conceptart.jpg) complete with bottle. I was satisfied. :lmao

Side note relevant to this thread: I saw no less than three different Kaminas, and a fully-grown Simon. 
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 27, 2013, 10:54:27 PM
I only ever saw a Kamina at a local con ONCE.

I feel like my people really suck at watching anime that isn't "herp derp everyone knows it" popular nowadays.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 28, 2013, 04:18:36 PM
I haven't gone to an anime convention in some weeks, but I did make some videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3irX1oqKEM&list=UUwCfaP-RpgBV14GjsRncp7g&index=1) of my last (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESvvsaOrSk&list=UUwCfaP-RpgBV14GjsRncp7g&index=2) one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVpvbebAXcs&list=UUwCfaP-RpgBV14GjsRncp7g&index=3). Yes, me and my Kyudo group were part of the events :cool

Still need to make a video with the stuff I got in the following sunday when I have the time.

And heck, here's the photos en masse (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/oslecamo/library/Extras/Iberanime?sort=3&page=14) if you're interested. Yes, I need to train my camera skills.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 28, 2013, 07:19:30 PM
I believe I mentioned this once already but...

GODDAMMIT OSLE I WANT TO LEARN ARCHERY SO FREAKING BAD

Don't suppose you guys could somehow find out if there's a legit Kyudo dojo where I live?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 28, 2013, 11:56:18 PM
...whats wrong with normal archery?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 29, 2013, 10:36:29 AM
Kyudo is an art. Regular archery is a form. Two different beasts, see.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 29, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
btw, whose turn is it in the main thread?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 29, 2013, 11:42:38 AM
Anybody's who hasn't posted yet before the DM.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 29, 2013, 12:49:23 PM
Quote
Kyudo is an art. Regular archery is a form. Two different beasts, see.
They are pretty much the same to me. Different bow, different position, same objective.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 29, 2013, 01:06:27 PM
Well, I wouldn't be able to cite any specific differences since I don't practice it (YET!), but that's kinda like saying that Karate and Muay Thai are the same.

Kyudo, as far as I'm aware, is as much meditation as it is martial. Focus, breathing, technique - even though the general objective is the same as regular archery, the approach is completely different. Regular archery focuses on the mechanical aspects of the bow and arrow; Kyudo focuses on both the physical and philosophical aspects of what bow-and-arrow entails. They're two different experiences of the same act, much like someone playing the blues and someone playing rock have different perceptions of the act of playing a guitar, even though they're doing much the same thing essentially...

I'm not sure if I'm making much sense.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on May 29, 2013, 01:14:38 PM
I hate being  cute from the Internet without warning. Heavy connexion problems. allow me to read where we are, and I'm back to business !
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 29, 2013, 01:34:25 PM
All of that also applies to western archery.
The eastern philosophical aspect is just a fancy way to say "I gotta be accurate." In western archery its worded differently but it is the same as well. The thrive of constant self-improvement. Getting a better shot, being generally more accurate over several shots, finding that perfect position, being accurate with more than a single bow and kind of bow and different environments. There is (or should) always be another aspect of archery to improve when you think you've mastered it all.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 29, 2013, 01:42:50 PM
The eastern philosophical aspect is just a fancy way to say "I gotta be accurate."

Citation needed. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 29, 2013, 01:59:45 PM
Give me one that disproves it.  :smirk

Quote
According to the Nippon Kyudo Federation the supreme goal of kyudo is the state of shin-zen-bi, roughly "truth-goodness-beauty",[6] which can be approximated as: when archers shoot correctly (i.e. truthfully) with virtuous spirit and attitude toward all persons and all things which relate to kyudo (i.e. with goodness), beautiful shooting is realized naturally.
Meaning: "Gotta shoot well."
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 29, 2013, 02:38:08 PM
Well, just call me fancy, I guess.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 29, 2013, 03:43:00 PM
I think the attraction is more due to eastern archery being exotic. The bow lacks in firepower and range if compared to a traditional longbow and it looks bigger than it needs to be but it maintains elegance and a level of efficiency more than necessary to be considered an efficient weapon (even more so when stretching the practice to horseback archery).
Western archery can be pretty fancy as can be the philosophical aspect behind it. It isn't advertised as much, maybe because it wasn't kept alive by tradition.
Same applies to guns, I suppose. While more crude, when you enter the realm of sniping, it can get at least as deep as archery.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 29, 2013, 03:55:24 PM
I can understand the appeal behind guns, but I don't think it really has the same kind of lure that archery does (in kind, not substance).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 29, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
I think Western archery is more technophilic. Kinda sad, in a way.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 29, 2013, 05:53:57 PM
I believe I mentioned this once already but...

GODDAMMIT OSLE I WANT TO LEARN ARCHERY SO FREAKING BAD

Don't suppose you guys could somehow find out if there's a legit Kyudo dojo where I live?

Some quick searching led me to this. (http://www.kyudo.com.br/a-pratica-kyudo/onde/) Dunno the exact area where you live, maybe one of those is near you?

I hate being  cute from the Internet without warning. Heavy connexion problems. allow me to read where we are, and I'm back to business !
Nice! The 1-week deadline was almost up.

Give me one that disproves it.  :smirk

Quote
According to the Nippon Kyudo Federation the supreme goal of kyudo is the state of shin-zen-bi, roughly "truth-goodness-beauty",[6] which can be approximated as: when archers shoot correctly (i.e. truthfully) with virtuous spirit and attitude toward all persons and all things which relate to kyudo (i.e. with goodness), beautiful shooting is realized naturally.
Meaning: "Gotta shoot well."
My master would feel nothing but disapointment if I ever said that. The shot is just an element of the whole ritual, and not even the last. Position, walking to the position, kneeling, seting up the bow, holding your position and whitdrawing after shooting the bow, it's all important. Hiting the target could actually be said to be secondary. The arrow will hit naturally if you do everything else well. But you can still hit the center all the time and completely fail a Kyudo exam because your other steps were sloppy.

Heck, newcomers are expected to train for months before they're even allowed to start using a bow, and some more weeks before they actually start shooting the targets!

Plus
I think Western archery is more technophilic. Kinda sad, in a way.

This. So much this. Western archery has degenerated into toy-bows fulls of bells and whistles. Kyudo sticks to old construction methods and single-model, meaning it's the person and spirit that improves, not the tool.

Same with guns. Even sniping is all about geting the latest haxorz rifle with uber bullet models and all the extra acessories.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 29, 2013, 06:15:23 PM
Same with guns. Even sniping is all about geting the latest haxorz rifle with uber bullet models and all the extra acessories.

And maths.

Lots and lots of maths.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 29, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
Quote
My master would feel nothing but disapointment if I ever said that. The shot is just an element of the whole ritual, and not even the last. Position, walking to the position, kneeling, seting up the bow, holding your position and whitdrawing after shooting the bow, it's all important. Hiting the target could actually be said to be secondary. The arrow will hit naturally if you do everything else well. But you can still hit the center all the time and completely fail a Kyudo exam because your other steps were sloppy.

Heck, newcomers are expected to train for months before they're even allowed to start using a bow, and some more weeks before they actually start shooting the targets!
I'm not saying the entire process is unimportant. Just that since you're supposed to hit naturally if you do everything well, you gotta be accurate otherwise it means you messed up somewhere.
We have a similar process around the entire shooting session, which weas probably established around the same needs to better our shots.

Quote
This. So much this. Western archery has degenerated into toy-bows fulls of bells and whistles. Kyudo sticks to old construction methods and single-model, meaning it's the person and spirit that improves, not the tool.
Depends on the groups, competition categories and personal tastes, I suppose. I use a traditional longbow with a leather archer's glove. No gizmo. The masters of our club are awesome with pretty much everything.  :blink

Quote
And maths.
Lots and lots of maths.
Hell yes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 29, 2013, 06:51:30 PM
Quote
And maths.
Lots and lots of maths.
Hell yes.

Possibly the most unfortunate part of all sniping. :p

Now, why has Min-Yung tried to garden inside a star? XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 29, 2013, 06:55:30 PM
Osle said that when you're using gardening tricks that modifies terrain on surfaces that cannot really be used for gardening, say, metal, you make the surface suitable for gardening. Somehow.

Not sure how that would work inside the star but in the end it would allow her to avoid destruction if she launches off the mecha and dies on that terrain while in or without nanoarmor.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 29, 2013, 07:12:56 PM
I believe I mentioned this once already but...

GODDAMMIT OSLE I WANT TO LEARN ARCHERY SO FREAKING BAD

Don't suppose you guys could somehow find out if there's a legit Kyudo dojo where I live?

Some quick searching led me to this. (http://www.kyudo.com.br/a-pratica-kyudo/onde/) Dunno the exact area where you live, maybe one of those is near you?


Sadly, SO sadly, but no. I live in Porto Alegre, RS.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 30, 2013, 07:12:43 AM
Get a bow and arrow and teach your self. Modern archery doesn't understand what the hell it's doing anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on May 30, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
Considering that Kuro seems to live in an urban area, it's much easier said than done finding a place where he could safely launch arrows.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 30, 2013, 02:55:41 PM
Not really. Buy a 20 pounder and some plywood. Go out in the yard or hallway or park or Staples after closing and practice at 25 feet. When you reachable point you never miss or catch your arm you can worry about increasing draw weight and distance.

And if you really want to be a real archer and not some guy bragging he can hit a Target at 100 feet then you really need to build the muscle memory to a point you can fit and fire holding a fistful of arrows blindfolded. And there again, you don't need long range (or even a target) for that either.

So blah I say to the urban excuse.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on May 30, 2013, 05:22:12 PM
Still a bit of a tricky proposition, but I guess I could give it a try.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 30, 2013, 05:39:32 PM
Be careful of local laws, a lot of places consider shooting a bow to be discharging a firearm and thus that would be illegal.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 30, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
Be careful of local laws, a lot of places consider shooting a bow to be discharging a firearm and thus that would be illegal.

I... but... how... what.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 30, 2013, 05:46:19 PM
Be careful of local laws, a lot of places consider shooting a bow to be discharging a firearm and thus that would be illegal.

I... but... how... what.

Because you can shoot people with it.  What kind of weapon would you define a bow as?  It isn't as if "arrow thrower" is a catchy legal term.   :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 30, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
I think I recall that bows are legally considered to be white weapons, and so laws regarding them are handled as such.
They are not considered to be firearms, not even if the arrow is a fire arrow.  :rolleyes
This would mostly be due to the weapon not relying on an explosion to function. A bow cannot harm by accident if it doesn't have an arrow drawn but someone, say, walking around town with a bow and arrow clearly visible on his person would be committing an infraction since the weapon may well rise public discomfort. Same as walking around with a knife.

If, however, you are on your way to some shooting range and not just wandering around with a bow for no valid reason, then you should be fine.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 31, 2013, 08:19:56 AM
Not all definitions of firearm require an explosion, especially since airguns are considered firearms in many if not most/all states and there is no explosion there. 

Also, I just give a shit enough anymore so I'm done dealing with this conversation.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 31, 2013, 06:19:47 PM
I am disappointed in myself for not aiming for a Diebuster-like situation with Amaterasu. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on May 31, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
You have a whole game to get there still?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 31, 2013, 07:05:40 PM
Quote
Not all definitions of firearm require an explosion, especially since airguns are considered firearms in many if not most/all states and there is no explosion there. 
Since you bothered to comment this, I'd say that it may be true. I do not know if airguns are firearms as far as the law is concerned. I just recall that bows are not.
In part because there is no explosive propellant, maybe, but probably mostly because the mechanism rely on 'human energy', or physical effort.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 31, 2013, 07:06:56 PM
You have a whole game to get there still?

Two levels of Warblade aren't really conducive to being a living mecha. Don't really have the right theme to them. :p

If you don't care about spoilers for Diebuster, watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFppdq6vEPg)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 31, 2013, 07:17:21 PM
^Epic.  :bigeyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 31, 2013, 07:20:36 PM
Diebuster is TTGL's big sister. And Nono is awesome. Admittedly, Diebuster itself looks a lot more awesome than it is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLPCMpY4wvc)

A friend and I were talking about what the family tree for Gainax's robot shows must be.

Gunbuster and FLCL got together to give birth to Diebuster and TTGL. Evangelion is a creepy uncle.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on May 31, 2013, 07:22:31 PM
The fk did I just watch.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 31, 2013, 07:25:39 PM
Well, the Earth was going to be rammed into a space monster. Diebuster shows up and is used as a brake. This is how they actually beat the damn thing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc1DTdzVyo8)

Did I mention this involves splitting a black hole in two to stop it?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 01, 2013, 12:47:30 AM
Quote
Not all definitions of firearm require an explosion, especially since airguns are considered firearms in many if not most/all states and there is no explosion there. 
Since you bothered to comment this, I'd say that it may be true. I do not know if airguns are firearms as far as the law is concerned. I just recall that bows are not.
In part because there is no explosive propellant, maybe, but probably mostly because the mechanism rely on 'human energy', or physical effort.

I just can't help myself.  One more comment and then I quit.

You do realize that gun laws vary by location to location, especially when we're talking about different countries (Kuro lives in one of those) and that's why I talked about how he should look at local laws don't you?

Edit: I've also seen compound bows classified differently than non-compound bows, so that distinction is important.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 07:17:28 AM
Quote
Not all definitions of firearm require an explosion, especially since airguns are considered firearms in many if not most/all states and there is no explosion there. 
Since you bothered to comment this, I'd say that it may be true. I do not know if airguns are firearms as far as the law is concerned. I just recall that bows are not.
In part because there is no explosive propellant, maybe, but probably mostly because the mechanism rely on 'human energy', or physical effort.

I just can't help myself.  One more comment and then I quit.

... wouldn't that be a bit of an overreaction?

EDIT: I know what sort of bizarre monster I would create if I was going for a living mecha (and not restricted). Zodar//Anaxim.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 01, 2013, 11:29:24 AM
Quote
Not all definitions of firearm require an explosion, especially since airguns are considered firearms in many if not most/all states and there is no explosion there. 
Since you bothered to comment this, I'd say that it may be true. I do not know if airguns are firearms as far as the law is concerned. I just recall that bows are not.
In part because there is no explosive propellant, maybe, but probably mostly because the mechanism rely on 'human energy', or physical effort.

I just can't help myself.  One more comment and then I quit.

... wouldn't that be a bit of an overreaction?

Quit the conversation, this is the High-End OOC thread and I'm not even in that game remember?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 11:30:42 AM
Quote
Not all definitions of firearm require an explosion, especially since airguns are considered firearms in many if not most/all states and there is no explosion there. 
Since you bothered to comment this, I'd say that it may be true. I do not know if airguns are firearms as far as the law is concerned. I just recall that bows are not.
In part because there is no explosive propellant, maybe, but probably mostly because the mechanism rely on 'human energy', or physical effort.

I just can't help myself.  One more comment and then I quit.

... wouldn't that be a bit of an overreaction?

Quit the conversation, this is the High-End OOC thread and I'm not even in that game remember?

I've honestly forgotten who's in which game.  -_-'
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 01, 2013, 12:25:51 PM
If past experiences are anything to live by a bow-and-arrow is not considered either here. First, because the definition of "white weapon" here seems to apply mostly to blades - I've carried training equipment such as shinai, bokutou, and even a wooden naginata around and never got so much as a peep from local authorities. Similarly, there is a local crafts fair where, among other things, you can get decorated bows and arrows from descendants of local native tribes, and these are sold out on the street.

So it may very well be that as long as I don't draw and fire in a space not actually designed to do so (i.e. shooting range), I should be fine - unfortunately, I don't think local parks apply.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 01, 2013, 01:14:00 PM
You're probably right.

To be honest I tried carrying a bow around in the streets and the police forces didn't bother me. They often overlook minor stuff like that.
You buy knives easily in the streets too so I'm not surprised.

Quote
So it may very well be that as long as I don't draw and fire in a space not actually designed to do so (i.e. shooting range), I should be fine - unfortunately, I don't think local parks apply.
You're probably right.  :)
Local laws vary greatly mostly when it comes to wild life game hunting.

Quote
You do realize that gun laws vary by location to location, especially when we're talking about different countries (Kuro lives in one of those) and that's why I talked about how he should look at local laws don't you?
Yes. Gun laws.
Bows aren't guns and aren't firearms. The laws for a given weapon may differ but their definition rarely do in more than nuances.
If you are curious about the subject you are welcomed to look it up. You don't have to feel obliged to reply.

Quote
Edit: I've also seen compound bows classified differently than non-compound bows, so that distinction is important.
In the legislation of distribution and use in certain hunting grounds and shooting range, perhaps. I've never seen or heard of a compound kumi, however, so I doubt that distinction should present itself.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 01:27:17 PM
... thinking about it, Zodar//Anything vs Mecha is hilarious, because they can grapple any damn thing, regardless of size. Now THAT is an awesome ability.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 01, 2013, 01:44:32 PM
If it bypasses the mecha clause that anything non-mecha cannot inflict non-damage effects produced by non-mecha sources unless they affect an area bigger than the mecha itself - grapples being a non-damage effect that doesn't (normally) target an area (even though it can proc damage effects dependant on grapples).

It definitely should though. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 01:50:02 PM
Quote
Sublime Submission: The Zodar may just be human sized, but it knows how to use the size of bigger opponents to its advantage. At 7th level the Zodar never suffers penalties in grapple for being smaller than its opponent  or its opponent gains bonus for being bigger in grapples against the Zodar. The Zodar may also take a -10 penalty on the grapple checks to don't count itself as grappled, simply holding the opponent in one of its arms (meaning it can't be used for other tasks like slam attacks). Finally if an opponent tries to any kind of teleportation or similar while grappled by the Zodar, the Zodar can choose to go along

Honestly, I'm not sure if Os overlooked the fact that you can't grapple something more than two sizes bigger than you, because both of the grapple-focused creatures I've looked at (Pseudonatural and Zodar) have nothing overriding that restriction, even though they pretty much laugh in the face of size bonuses one way or another. Kinda a big weakness for something focused on grappling: still can't grapple most bloody dragons. @_@

But yeah, Zodar//Anaxim is pretty much perfect for a living mecha. Vastly stronger than it should be for its size, built in transforming weaponry, drills... XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 01, 2013, 02:13:47 PM
You're right. As is it is good for resisting grapples, not initiating them.
A solution would be titanic + monster lord but it isn't ideal.

Edit: Though as far as being a living mecha goes, being a giant thing might not be an issue.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 02:36:20 PM
You're right. As is it is good for resisting grapples, not initiating them.
A solution would be titanic + monster lord but it isn't ideal.

Edit: Though as far as being a living mecha goes, being a giant thing might not be an issue.

It's acceptable, but much more hilarious when it's something about human size manhandling a mecha. Much, much more awesome to watch. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 01, 2013, 03:00:24 PM
I recall there being a core thingie that makes it possible to grapple stuff of all sizes. Not sure if it was an item or some other trick.
Could be something to consider if Osle didn't intend for all-size offensive grappling and if I recall what the hell that thingie actually was.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 01, 2013, 06:06:23 PM
Will wait for Harald until monday/tuesday, then turn advances.

Note to self: watch diebuster and gunbuster during summer vacation. :P

Quote
Sublime Submission: The Zodar may just be human sized, but it knows how to use the size of bigger opponents to its advantage. At 7th level the Zodar never suffers penalties in grapple for being smaller than its opponent  or its opponent gains bonus for being bigger in grapples against the Zodar. The Zodar may also take a -10 penalty on the grapple checks to don't count itself as grappled, simply holding the opponent in one of its arms (meaning it can't be used for other tasks like slam attacks). Finally if an opponent tries to any kind of teleportation or similar while grappled by the Zodar, the Zodar can choose to go along

Honestly, I'm not sure if Os overlooked the fact that you can't grapple something more than two sizes bigger than you, because both of the grapple-focused creatures I've looked at (Pseudonatural and Zodar) have nothing overriding that restriction, even though they pretty much laugh in the face of size bonuses one way or another. Kinda a big weakness for something focused on grappling: still can't grapple most bloody dragons. @_@

When it says "never suffer penalties", it means all penalties, including the two size thingy.

Pseudonatural creature not geting such an ability however is intentional, since it's an easily entereable template/prc, with full Bab and Str boosts to boot plus a bunch of extras. So if you want it to also ignore size diferences, you'll have to grab some levels of other stuff.

Plus mind you, most dragons are "only" huge up to almost/after epic levels, and no core dragon ever gets colossal, so dunno what exactly you're complaining about. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 06:17:04 PM
Gunbuster and Diebuster are awesome. Though the endings tend to make everyone cry. But hey, you can watch them both in a day.

... a Zodar is therefore definitively the best monster class for a living mecha, tied with Anaxim for weaponry. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 01, 2013, 06:27:40 PM
Gunbuster and Diebuster are awesome. Though the endings tend to make everyone cry. But hey, you can watch them both in a day.

Alas, "a day" is something I simply cannot afford in the near future.

And I know there's a good chance that if I see one episode, I will want to see the rest of the thing on one go, so must resist temptation!
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 01, 2013, 06:33:31 PM
Well, it's not an entire day. About three hours for each of them; they're six episodes. Nearly half an hour each. So, not an entire day, just most of one. Unfortunate timing, though. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 05, 2013, 06:00:18 PM
It's been over a week. We waiting on somebody?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 05, 2013, 06:26:37 PM
Harald.

I'm eager to see what horrors shall be inflicted upon our persons.

Also, the number of saves rolled.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 07, 2013, 08:24:44 AM
... more natural twenties? :shakefist
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 07, 2013, 11:21:08 AM
I feel....safe.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 07, 2013, 08:30:41 PM
Did the enemies who fired on the Gotterdammerung make their (DC 26) reflex saves? Aden's Sacred Treasure Land stance protects a 60ft radius and he was right next to the battleship.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 07, 2013, 09:05:33 PM
You said you were touching the ground.

The battleship was keeping an altitude of 200 mu.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 07, 2013, 09:32:03 PM
Does Harold's ship count as an ally?

Edit: Also it was confirmed I can use my Moon Vanguard's martial school while in my Real Robot while in my Nano Armor, yes? (You mentioned it around page 19/20 and I just want to make sure)
Cause then with all the northern enemies within 75mu of me (assuming above is right), and my Delusion of Enlightenment stance, I have like 9 AOOs to make probably  :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 07, 2013, 09:50:12 PM
Not dead? TIME FOR MORE NUCLEAR HELLFIRE. I know for sure that I can manage that much so long as I, myself, am not dead. :p

-Goes to check what the damage is.-

Ooookay, so that didn't go particularly well. Which raises the question: does 'ignores half DR' mean that's the damage after DR or before? @_@

And stop getting critical hits on me. This is annoying. :<

Eh, DR is a moot point, given that even with it I end up on -200 and something health. Only person that can survive that would be... whatever the hell Ano's thing is called, I think.

... things are kind of weird right now, because the excessive healing available makes OHKO's the only really viable way to kill anything.

Aww, and I was in the wrong stance for Fall of Great Stars, otherwise that would be a valid choice.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 08, 2013, 02:48:37 AM
How can you be in the wrong stance for it?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 08, 2013, 03:07:57 AM
Because it has a control rod component.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 08, 2013, 10:34:54 AM
Does Harold's ship count as an ally?
Yes.

Edit: Also it was confirmed I can use my Moon Vanguard's martial school while in my Real Robot while in my Nano Armor, yes? (You mentioned it around page 19/20 and I just want to make sure)
Cause then with all the northern enemies within 75mu of me (assuming above is right), and my Delusion of Enlightenment stance, I have like 9 AOOs to make probably  :huh
The ones up north are in heavy vegetation and thus have concealment, so they don't trigger aoos.

The ones south however had their vegetation burned off, so you'll get two aoos against them if you have enough reach to get all the way there.

Not dead? TIME FOR MORE NUCLEAR HELLFIRE. I know for sure that I can manage that much so long as I, myself, am not dead. :p

-Goes to check what the damage is.-

Ooookay, so that didn't go particularly well. Which raises the question: does 'ignores half DR' mean that's the damage after DR or before? @_@
I don't acount for your DR in my damage calculations.


And stop getting critical hits on me. This is annoying. :<
well, with so many attacks it's only natural to get some. :P

Eh, DR is a moot point, given that even with it I end up on -200 and something health. Only person that can survive that would be... whatever the hell Ano's thing is called, I think.

... things are kind of weird right now, because the excessive healing available makes OHKO's the only really viable way to kill anything.

To be honest, I was more expecting all of you to stick near Aden and his Sacred Treasure Land stance, that would considerably less bullets coming for you. Instead you each run on your own direction and stay near the enemies with relationships after geting hit, opening yourself to synchro attacks.

This still isn't the part of the show where you can just charge ahead by yourself and expect to tank over half the enemy force. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 08, 2013, 10:46:10 AM
So, I assume it's finally my go since one of the unknowns had a 14 for Initiative and I had 15. Yeahee. Murder time ^_^
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 08, 2013, 11:07:34 AM
To be honest, I was more expecting all of you to stick near Aden and his Sacred Treasure Land stance, that would considerably less bullets coming for you. Instead you each run on your own direction and stay near the enemies with relationships after geting hit, opening yourself to synchro attacks.

This still isn't the part of the show where you can just charge ahead by yourself and expect to tank over half the enemy force. :p

I was expecting someone else to deploy near me, but that didn't exactly work out. Neither did plan 'get hit less the second time around because actual AC and less criticals'.  I expected that having everyone within a few squares of each other would lead to TPK by AoE.

If anything's going to kill me right now, it's going to be the stupid escape pods, because getting out of the thing will just waste an action. :banghead

... kind of weird that Hell's Artificial Sun needs no control rod, but the panic button maneuver does.

Also, Soro, we've been going by group initiative the entire time, there was no need to wait.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 08, 2013, 11:25:55 AM
Also, Soro, we've been going by group initiative the entire time, there was no need to wait.
Really? I totally lost a turn to the system then, oops.

All well. Took the high gamble and tried Stunning a bunch of them. Maybe that'll prevent them all from targeting another one of us and nuking him out of the sky. You guys should probably try to find some cover too.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 08, 2013, 11:27:39 AM
Also, Soro, we've been going by group initiative the entire time, there was no need to wait.
Really? I totally lost a turn to the system then, oops.

"Oops" indeed. If you had done that earlier, it would've saved the rest of the party quite a bit of problems. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 08, 2013, 11:40:39 AM
"Did someone ask for cover?"

Also, Osle, I don't suppose either of those rolls are any good for identifying whatever the heck are those fields that allow for surviving miniature suns?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 08, 2013, 11:58:59 AM
Its cool, Raineh, cause I got 400mu move :p

But whilst I was thinking of saving the ship, I think I'd rather save you. Gimme a moment and I wonder if I can work this right?
I'm, like, mostly counters on maneuvers  :lmao

Mmm....Its our turn after that isn't it? I'd take my turn now but I'm not sure until I know if what I'm doing actually does anything >>

Actually quick question as well. Is movement done as part of a maneuver (in that the maneuver says you can move then do something) cost energy when flying on top of the maneuver's normal energy cost? I subtracted energy already assuming a yes to that but just want to make sure.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 08, 2013, 12:42:37 PM
Also, Soro, we've been going by group initiative the entire time, there was no need to wait.
Really? I totally lost a turn to the system then, oops.

"Oops" indeed. If you had done that earlier, it would've saved the rest of the party quite a bit of problems. :P
It's funnier this way through.

*And* I get a grand entrance.
Also got the range on it wrong, it's 20ft base +25ft for 4th level. Increased collateral damage ^_^

Plus I can pass things off as being disinterested in the fight until the ship went down, and later on the widdle dragon lost his ship and needs super-hugged.  :lol
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 08, 2013, 12:53:33 PM
Hmm? I don't think the radius of Hell's Artificial Sun increases like that the first time you use it, it'd be superseded by the statement of initial radius, surely?

Welp, can't do anything until I stop being Schrodinger's Mecha.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 08, 2013, 02:06:50 PM
Hmm? I don't think the radius of Hell's Artificial Sun increases like that the first time you use it, it'd be superseded by the statement of initial radius, surely?
Oh yeah, never mind. 1st turn it stays at the default size. All well. Next round it'll get bigger through ^_^

btw, did I ever get an answer back on my Funnel? It's immune to my own attacks right?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 12, 2013, 12:02:05 PM
"Did someone ask for cover?"

Also, Osle, I don't suppose either of those rolls are any good for identifying whatever the heck are those fields that allow for surviving miniature suns?

They distort time and space to drain most of the power of an incoming attack. Aka much like a Gravity Wall special property.

Mmm....Its our turn after that isn't it? I'd take my turn now but I'm not sure until I know if what I'm doing actually does anything >>

Actually quick question as well. Is movement done as part of a maneuver (in that the maneuver says you can move then do something) cost energy when flying on top of the maneuver's normal energy cost? I subtracted energy already assuming a yes to that but just want to make sure.
Yes, it's your turn now.

And yes, all movement inside a mecha costs energy, even if part of a maneuver. Altough "not actual movement" like Disapearing Elegance multiple attacks in an area and teleports don't cost energy.

Hmm? I don't think the radius of Hell's Artificial Sun increases like that the first time you use it, it'd be superseded by the statement of initial radius, surely?

Welp, can't do anything until I stop being Schrodinger's Mecha.

Hmm, something I missed on my part?

EDIT: Nevermind, noticed now that Ketaro used tower-watching blade to try to cover you.
You'll need to wait until I get home to my main computer to check my notes to verify exactly what attacks were stoped tough.

Hmm? I don't think the radius of Hell's Artificial Sun increases like that the first time you use it, it'd be superseded by the statement of initial radius, surely?
Oh yeah, never mind. 1st turn it stays at the default size. All well. Next round it'll get bigger through ^_^

btw, did I ever get an answer back on my Funnel? It's immune to my own attacks right?
Tecnically no, but you're right it should, so sneak-updated funnels to make them immune to their own controller's attacks. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 12, 2013, 12:06:18 PM
Can those walls be distorted or weakened somehow?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 12, 2013, 12:09:07 PM
Hmm? I don't think the radius of Hell's Artificial Sun increases like that the first time you use it, it'd be superseded by the statement of initial radius, surely?

Welp, can't do anything until I stop being Schrodinger's Mecha.

Hmm, something I missed on my part?

Yeah, Ketaro's post directly affects what's already happened to me, it seems, so I need to know about that before I can do anything.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 13, 2013, 12:27:58 AM
EDIT: Nevermind, noticed now that Ketaro used tower-watching blade to try to cover you.
You'll need to wait until I get home to my main computer to check my notes to verify exactly what attacks were stoped tough.

Plus the whole Fog Cloud thing I dropped on those southern enemies if I'm using AT's tactical feat right.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 13, 2013, 10:02:15 AM
Can those walls be distorted or weakened somehow?

They consume the same amount of energy every time they trigger regardless of the damage dealt, so lots of weak attacks would be the best way of overcoming them by draining the mecha's energy supply.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 13, 2013, 12:11:41 PM
Hmmm.

Would conjuring an illusion of a few dozen gatling guns suffice?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 13, 2013, 12:38:57 PM
Huh....using an immediate action denies your swift action for the following turn, right?
But can't I use a different action to activate something that is normally a swift action, like a standard, or does it not work like that?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 13, 2013, 12:51:48 PM
Using an immediate action outsider your turn consumes your swift action  for the next turn. If you use it in your own turn, it simply counts as your swift action for that turn.

You cannot swap other actions for swift actions unless you have a specific ability for that.

Hmmm.

Would conjuring an illusion of a few dozen gatling guns suffice?
Unless each of them can specifically deal damage as its own entity, no.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 13, 2013, 01:14:55 PM
I suppose I'll have to go for spells with multiple attack rolls, then.

Hmmm. This will be a little less effective than I'd hoped for, but what the hey.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 13, 2013, 01:56:44 PM
Katherine entered the artificial sun area. Unless she attacks from a different position, doesn't she take damage from this?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 13, 2013, 02:53:16 PM
Depends if the yamaratsu could make a bunch of DC 41 concentration checks to keep it going. It doesn't help that you didn't specify when does the damage occurs, so tecnically entering the area by itself doesn't damage you at all unless you stay there.

EDIT: And just to make it clear, that's how it should be. Massive damage+area+disable+repeteable+sneaking in at-will higher level spells is already more than OP enough for a 4th level maneuver before you start adding full area denial.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 13, 2013, 04:35:52 PM
Most ongoing AoEs with a duration longer than instantaneous that do damage or inflict a status state that targets within the AoE take the damage when you begin your turn within them or when you end your movement within them. Both of those usually imply it happening either on the caster's turn or on your turn though as movement isn't generally expected to happen in between turns. Cloudkill, for example, says the effects happen on your turn.

If I remember right. And like Oslecamo said, I don't see anything in the maneuver description that states when the damage happens. :/
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 05:56:47 AM
I think..... I have to retreat because I can't reliably deal enough damage to drop anything, all things considered. I don't know what to do though. I could try to fight, I think I could manage about half a dozen attacks per target if I burn through all my spirit and energy in one go, but then I have no reason to doubt they didn't just heal themselves on their turn and assuming half damage from each attack before DR because of Gravity Wall my expected damage output is closer to 10-15 per hit IF I'm lucky (Because even if my damage output is decent, its via a lot of little attacks each susceptible to DR & GW). Even if they didn't heal and some of them somehow drop, I don't have enough energy to move after much less use any counters when I'm attacked by probably the entire if not most of the southwestern group now that they are done shooting the ship down because I may have just downed some of their guys. I feel like I have to basically run and hide right now in order to have a decent chance at seeing the next round.

The margin for error with this battle is like, I feel like its less than zero. And its just the first encounter.
There is just an insane amount of raw damage being thrown around by what I figured were just the mooks and they don't seem capable of missing a shot.  :-\
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 14, 2013, 06:07:24 AM
There is just an insane amount of raw damage being thrown around by what I figured were just the mooks and they don't seem capable of missing a shot.  :-\

Actually, they missed plenty of shots on the last round. The one you used your counter on had fired six, and only the crit managed to hit.

On the other hand you're right that the encounters in this campaign aren't going to be easy. You are a 6-strong gestalt party after all. Except worthy challenges of your caliber. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 06:17:58 AM
Gawd, they're doing 6 attacks each? Thats like twice as many as I thought they were. I mean, I'll still want to try to find ways to deal with such difficulties, but I have no idea myself that ends in me surviving the next round right now.

Does anybody have any idea on what we should do? x.x

 :o
Oh my gawd ketaro what are you doing? I only just noticed 3 of the guys near me are dead (If thats what the 'D' on them means)
I think I'ma just do this then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 14, 2013, 06:33:47 AM
D is for Disabled, not dead. They're stunned for failing the save. Should've put a note on the map for that.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 07:21:07 AM
Thats almost as good. Good thing I learned that tho before rolling attacks. :)

Edit: I will be so annoyed at myself if I misunderstood how anything I just did works and thus not be able to do part of whatever I just did  :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 14, 2013, 10:13:33 AM
Going forward we should try to make better use of my "you must be this tall to attack" stance. I've got a 60mu radius effect that forces enemies to make a nontrivial ref save if they want to stay in, attack or move into the area but right now it's only protecting me.

If Aden uses Sacred Knowledge can that be resolved before Katherine's attacks, thus granting her the damage bonus?

EDIT: Ketaro, are you counting the +3 to attack and damage you get from righteous wrath of the faithful? You also get 1 extra attack on a full attack action. Not sure if what you did counts as that or not.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
I didn't know there was any sort of buff going around for attack and damage. All my rolls weren't counting that.

And I guess that stance would make it better to stay near you, didn't realize it was a thing. Everything is pretty spread out in this one tho  :tongue
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 05:36:34 PM
I'm going to be honest: I've kind of lost interest in this particular thread. It just doesn't feel like what I was expecting from mecha, with the extremely high lethality and requirement to fight extremely cautiously. Bit confused for this sort of thing to be the first fight, too, since I don't remember anything starting with such a high threat level against mecha...

But... yeah, it just doesn't feel right with its inspiration.

Some mechanical notes, anyway:
1) The method for replacing a destroyed mecha is a bit... long. An entire quest, when you're basically dead weight during the interim? :huh
2) If it was applied to the damage from... Subterranean Sun? Hell's Underground Sun? Can't remember what it was called, but going from the ruling on Valour (which also only applies to attacks, and I remember being told it wouldn't work with non-attacks from maneuvers), Gravity Wall wouldn't apply, because it's not actually an attack.
3) Gravity Wall creates a rather large dilemma: lots of small attacks (and there aren't many things that actually do lots of small attacks in this subsystem, except for a Super Robot that keeps picking Extra Attack) do no damage, but it more than doubles HP otherwise. It's also on a mecha available from level 4 with DR 10.

Random notes on the fight:
1) Currently outnumbered 4-to-1, with the enemies capable of somewhere around a hundred attacks a round.
2) They can definitely make DC 26 saves with some regularity.
3) We are really bad at keeping track of buffs.
4) Staying within 60 MU to benefit from the field of safety thing would work much better if we had more ranged attackers.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 05:43:40 PM
That is because we fought stupidly. The first thing we should have done was to retreat the ship to a greater distance so we wouldn't have to fight them simultaneously while we are outnumbered. It would have been a much easier fight if we fought realistically with actual strategy rather than going in like each of us was strong enough to wipe a squad on our own. Underestimating them.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 05:52:18 PM
That is because we fought stupidly. The first thing we should have done was to retreat the ship to a greater distance so we wouldn't have to fight them simultaneously while we are outnumbered. It would have been a much easier fight if we fought realistically with actual strategy rather than going in like each of us was strong enough to wipe a squad on our own. Underestimating them.

That's not even a reply to anything I said, you're basically saying that one of the things that doesn't feel right is what we should have done, when having 'fight extremely tactically and cautiously' being one of those things that just doesn't seem right for the first fight in... well, anything mecha-related. :???

That also kind of is the norm for mecha, too--if the pilot has a name, they're effectively a one man army. That's the entire basis of the Mecha Mook class.

Part of it is probably my greater familiarity with Super Robots and the weirder Real Robot stuff than, say, Gundam, though. :/
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
It was in reply to the idea of the extreme lethality.

Osle mentioned it was highly challenging.
He also has the upper hand on us as his minions are coordinated. They focus fire us one by one t'ill we are neutralized.

I think mechas in series are usually super efficient, yes, but they are plowing through their enemies one by one at the beginning, not all of them. They can massacre large mook numbers eventually, but these aren't really crapmechas.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 06:05:22 PM
It was in reply to the idea of the extreme lethality.

Osle mentioned it was highly challenging.
He also has the upper hand on us as his minions are coordinated. They focus fire us one by one t'ill we are neutralized.

I think mechas in series are usually super efficient, yes, but they are plowing through their enemies one by one at the beginning, not all of them. They can massacre large mook numbers eventually, but these aren't really crapmechas.

... yes, I get that 'fight tactically' is a response to extreme lethality. That has no impact on whether it matches what I was honestly expecting or what seems genre appropriate. I also originally planned to retreat, but something got in the way of that. :eh

I'm well aware they're not crap. They all have Gravity Wall, after all, which is annoying to get hold of (two mecha have it, otherwise it's a level 16-19+ Accessory) and extremely powerful for its energy cost. Though the idea of the beginning enemies basically being ploughed through like that is kind of endemic to fiction in general.

And this is based on PSO and Phantasy Star in general, which also follows the idea of the first area being the easiest.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 06:11:21 PM
I understand and I agree.
My comment wasn't made with the goal of changing your mind about it. Was just expressing my impression on the lethality.
Though I expected it to be that tough, to be honest. That's how his encounters are.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 14, 2013, 06:12:02 PM
Well, this campaign is part playtesting, since I never got much of a chance for testing my SRW d20 rules. So if you have any particular complains, feel free to chime in.

1) The method for replacing a destroyed mecha is a bit... long. An entire quest, when you're basically dead weight during the interim? :huh
2) If it was applied to the damage from... Subterranean Sun? Hell's Underground Sun? Can't remember what it was called, but going from the ruling on Valour (which also only applies to attacks, and I remember being told it wouldn't work with non-attacks from maneuvers), Gravity Wall wouldn't apply, because it's not actually an attack.
3) Gravity Wall creates a rather large dilemma: lots of small attacks (and there aren't many things that actually do lots of small attacks in this subsystem, except for a Super Robot that keeps picking Extra Attack) do no damage, but it more than doubles HP otherwise. It's also on a mecha available from level 4 with DR 10.
1)Nobody said the quest demanded a mecha. Once you finish off the enemies here, you have the whole Central Dome to explore on foot. Who knows what you can find there? :p
2) Maybe you misunderstood it, but Valor applies to maneuvers that don't demand an attack roll, it just doesn't apply to secondary attacks from maneuvers that allow you to make multiple attacks. "Attack" as in defined by the Invisibility spell.
3)Most real robots come with multiple weapons base to make multiple attacks easier. Sychnro attacks from relationship feats also helps on that matter. Also note the Huckbein MK II has Gravity Wall prototype, a weaker version. Altough the energy costs may be too low right now.

Random notes on the fight:
1) Currently outnumbered 4-to-1, with the enemies capable of somewhere around a hundred attacks a round.
2) They can definitely make DC 26 saves with some regularity.
3) We are really bad at keeping track of buffs.
4) Staying within 60 MU to benefit from the field of safety thing would work much better if we had more ranged attackers.
1)Ah, c'mon, you saw just how many attacks Katherine just did by herself? :P
2)Well, yes, they can make the saves, but even if it's a 50% chance, it means half damage you're taking (and if they try to actually target Aden, the chances drop much further).
3)Yep.
4)Didn't you pick some Divine Flame ranged nukes? :psyduck

That is because we fought stupidly. The first thing we should have done was to retreat the ship to a greater distance so we wouldn't have to fight them simultaneously while we are outnumbered. It would have been a much easier fight if we fought realistically with actual strategy rather than going in like each of us was strong enough to wipe a squad on our own. Underestimating them.
I'm still wondering on how everybody ended away from the area buff ally.
 
Going forward we should try to make better use of my "you must be this tall to attack" stance. I've got a 60mu radius effect that forces enemies to make a nontrivial ref save if they want to stay in, attack or move into the area but right now it's only protecting me.

If Aden uses Sacred Knowledge can that be resolved before Katherine's attacks, thus granting her the damage bonus?
Yes. I assume you take the actions in the order it's more advantageous for you among the party, regardless of the posting order.

Part of it is probably my greater familiarity with Super Robots and the weirder Real Robot stuff than, say, Gundam, though. :/

Even the TTGL crew struggled when facing the mooks of the anti-spirals. :)

And this is based on PSO and Phantasy Star in general, which also follows the idea of the first area being the easiest.

Forest starting area is being played in the Low End campaign.
Here you have to watch out for what areas are available since you're all high level already.

But again, I'm open to discussion about mecha details, in particular stuff like Gravity Wall.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 06:24:16 PM
To be honest I had been planning to grab Gravity Wall at the next level to more or less double my hp.
The energy requirement is very low for its power. It could be an energy shield instead.

The alternative could be using energy as hp. Sorta.
The Gravity Wall converts energy at a ratio of 1 energy = X hp to absorb damage. The GW could auto-deactivate when it reaches a certain energy minimum (not zero).
Otherwise an upgrade for the GW could be it having an energy bank of its own before it digs into the mecha's. If a mecha reaches 0 energy, it could maybe redirect GW energy to itself but the GW would become inactive and unable to regen energy until the mecha would be able to refill its arsenal again.
The GW's energy bank and energy recovery rate would otherwise be independent of the Mecha's but they could be improved as well. (Investing Battery Upgrades for it it having a reactor of its own). Just throwing ideas.

Edit: Thinking of external energy banks you can plug upon yourself for refills, that sounds like something nice to explore too.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 06:27:22 PM
I kinda agree with both of you in that we probably should have pulled back immediately when we discovered the ambush, but at the same time this was the very first battle in the game so you kinda have the mentality that it'll be fine even if you dive right in. :/

Quote
1)Ah, c'mon, you saw just how many attacks Katherine just did by herself? :P
I honestly did not want to have to go all out in the very first encounter. Somebody pulling out the 'big guns' at the very beginning just feels wrong to me.

Nonetheless, at this immediate time, I do have to say that Gravity Wall probably has too low of an energy cost, prototype version or not. The bonus from having it is awesome but there is practically no downside when you consider natural energy regeneration. And completely negated if you have both Gravity Wall and Reactor above rank 1. There may we other things to address, but oslecamo does have a point that this game is also a playtest of all these unused before mechanics. I think it'd be worth it to stick it out for the long run despite this terrible, terrible start  :p

Edit:
Quote
Yes. I assume you take the actions in the order it's more advantageous for you among the party, regardless of the posting order.
:O So I do a lot more damage than the little bit of more damage I thought? Woo buffs~
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 06:39:29 PM
Well, this campaign is part playtesting, since I never got much of a chance for testing my SRW d20 rules. So if you have any particular complains, feel free to chime in.

1) The method for replacing a destroyed mecha is a bit... long. An entire quest, when you're basically dead weight during the interim? :huh
2) If it was applied to the damage from... Subterranean Sun? Hell's Underground Sun? Can't remember what it was called, but going from the ruling on Valour (which also only applies to attacks, and I remember being told it wouldn't work with non-attacks from maneuvers), Gravity Wall wouldn't apply, because it's not actually an attack.
3) Gravity Wall creates a rather large dilemma: lots of small attacks (and there aren't many things that actually do lots of small attacks in this subsystem, except for a Super Robot that keeps picking Extra Attack) do no damage, but it more than doubles HP otherwise. It's also on a mecha available from level 4 with DR 10.
1)Nobody said the quest demanded a mecha. Once you finish off the enemies here, you have the whole Central Dome to explore on foot. Who knows what you can find there? :p
2) Maybe you misunderstood it, but Valor applies to maneuvers that don't demand an attack roll, it just doesn't apply to secondary attacks from maneuvers that allow you to make multiple attacks. "Attack" as in defined by the Invisibility spell.
3)Most real robots come with multiple weapons base to make multiple attacks easier. Sychnro attacks from relationship feats also helps on that matter. Also note the Huckbein MK II has Gravity Wall prototype, a weaker version. Altough the energy costs may be too low right now.

1) Mmm, I see how it would work gestalted. But the rules as they are kind of sideline anyone who gets their mecha destroyed for a Very Long Time in a pure mecha thing.
2) I remember you ruling that it wouldn't apply to the 'run through them' damage from Uncontainable Dive, even if no attacks were made and that was it. Miscommunication?
3) ... they can be combined with multiattack? I thought we were limited to iteratives here? This is why I avoided extra natural attacks, because I'm not sure how they work with mecha.

Quote
Random notes on the fight:
1) Currently outnumbered 4-to-1, with the enemies capable of somewhere around a hundred attacks a round.
2) They can definitely make DC 26 saves with some regularity.
3) We are really bad at keeping track of buffs.
4) Staying within 60 MU to benefit from the field of safety thing would work much better if we had more ranged attackers.
1)Ah, c'mon, you saw just how many attacks Katherine just did by herself? :P
2)Well, yes, they can make the saves, but even if it's a 50% chance, it means half damage you're taking (and if they try to actually target Aden, the chances drop much further).
3)Yep.
4)Didn't you pick some Divine Flame ranged nukes? :psyduck

1) Is this the number of attacks in one round? I think she has the most, anyway. :p
2) Eh, just seems odd.
3) Nothing to say here.
4) Subterranean Sun and Shooting Sun. Shooting Sun is too slow to really start at range in something like this. I don't have Mega Flare, which is a huge oversight, and instead have some level two maneuver I don't really want... and didn't notice until we were in the fight.

Quote
That is because we fought stupidly. The first thing we should have done was to retreat the ship to a greater distance so we wouldn't have to fight them simultaneously while we are outnumbered. It would have been a much easier fight if we fought realistically with actual strategy rather than going in like each of us was strong enough to wipe a squad on our own. Underestimating them.
I'm still wondering on how everybody ended away from the area buff ally.

I started away because of AoE paranoia. Too many melee attacks, not enough ranged in general, anyway. And the ship's just at the wrong height.

Quote
Part of it is probably my greater familiarity with Super Robots and the weirder Real Robot stuff than, say, Gundam, though. :/

Even the TTGL crew struggled when facing the mooks of the anti-spirals. :)

That's halfway through the series. I was thinking more towards the beginning, like before Kamina goes bye-bye. And the other comparisons easily in my mind for mid-series enemies are Gunbuster and Diebuster, and those fights are complete curbstomps (also the first time the main mecha see use) :p

Quote
And this is based on PSO and Phantasy Star in general, which also follows the idea of the first area being the easiest.

Forest starting area is being played in the Low End campaign.
Here you have to watch out for what areas are available since you're all high level already.

But again, I'm open to discussion about mecha details, in particular stuff like Gravity Wall.

Remind me where the Central Dome is, again? :lmao

I'd think Gravity Wall should be more tiered, rather like Regeneration and Reactor.

I don't expect I'm really going to survive this fight, seeing as most of my defences are easily penetrated with the 'half natural armour' stuff and the lack of the ability to use Guts to heal. Hm.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 07:00:35 PM
I was considering picking you up in the event of mecha loss. If you're up for it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 07:03:04 PM
You're probably fine outside of your mech if you stay normal sized. I mean, the whole place is surrounded by a forest you could lounge in lazily whilst waiting for a pickup. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 07:15:16 PM
...Or they could focus fire her again to wipe her out. Logically, they might focus their energy on other mechas then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 07:18:41 PM
You're probably fine outside of your mech if you stay normal sized. I mean, the whole place is surrounded by a forest you could lounge in lazily whilst waiting for a pickup. :p

I have no ranks in hide.

Also no ranks in Concentration, so 9 DC 41 Concentration checks are a bit beyond me. Even if I never, myself, got hit. Which is a pity, because 12d10 damage would be nice... but two allies are right in the middle of that anyway, so that's no good.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 07:30:54 PM
I don't think you'd need a hide check. I mean, the forest is apparently dense enough to give the enemies cover so I couldn't AoO them when they fired ranged weapons...
And there are still other mechas on the field trying to kill them still.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 07:34:11 PM
I expect they'd make sure I wouldn't trouble them again, though.

The forest is probably crawling with huge rodent things, anyway. And wolves. And odd bird thingies. And these brutish huge gorilla monster things.

Also, my latest thoughts on making a living mecha: Deathjack//Zodar.

I will work out the ideal Construct combination for this purpose. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 07:58:19 PM
So... you'd prefer we let you on foot?
Maybe so you'd get eaten by something so you can start fresh with that new character?

Oh, the gestalt side has to be a pilot class, so that might not work.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 08:03:48 PM
So... you'd prefer we let you on foot?
Maybe so you'd get eaten by something so you can start fresh with that new character?

I'd probably get eaten before getting picked up, I expect.

And working out how to make a mecha like that is more of a thought exercise.

Something with 45 innate strength and the ability to grapple mecha would probably not go down well, not with Dream Battle as the Zodar school. And yes, the Gestalt has to be half mecha, so unless 'is a construct' counts... not really. :lmao

EDIT: I have been reminded that I have Counter Rocket Punch. That's good to know, even if I'm not sure it can reduce damage by enough to be useful...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 14, 2013, 08:10:16 PM
Alright, I'm dropping some BFC to help with the bullet rain and I can attempt to nullify one attack at you guys. I hope it helps.

I realize they can fly and therefore the "slippery ice" effect is wasted, but at the very least they'll have to disperse and/or break formation. And if they try to fire at us from their position, we have total concealment, so wasted bullets.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 08:11:25 PM
You've also reminded me that I have a relevant maneuver.

... unfortunately, I can't use Multiple Rocket Punch as Counter Rocket Punch. :(

EDIT: I am really bad at remembering my defences. I also have Counter and Evade, so that means I can get +10 to AC against one attack, as well as use Counter Rocket Punch.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 14, 2013, 08:17:19 PM
Doubt it. I can move rite next to you and with a Move action you're in.
I think you can only use spirits at the start of your turn. Can't in reaction to an attack.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 08:20:02 PM
Mmm, even with Evade and CRP, I'd still need to avoid two more attacks to not be taken out. x_x

That won't work twice is, in hindsight, probably something I should've taken. This is what I get for not rearranging maneuvers after shuffling defences and reducing HP.

My list of bad maneuver choices is really getting quite long. x_x
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 14, 2013, 08:57:59 PM
Random notes on the fight:
3) We are really bad at keeping track of buffs.
4) Staying within 60 MU to benefit from the field of safety thing would work much better if we had more ranged attackers.

3) A good measure of this is my fault and I have started being more proactive about things. However, given the "resolve everything in most advantageous order" ruling, we're probably ok provided we catch and edit things before the next bad guy turn comes up.

For instance, Ketaro can make a note to add 13 to the damage rolls against the regular unknowns and 3 against the others.   

4) I can follow you around, and/or hang out near groups of enemies (like I am now) so the melee peoples can get their hits in and still be within my radius.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 09:01:31 PM
-Starts listing stupid choices I forgot to fix to make sure I don't do them again.-

Love instead of Alert/Focus, Rocket Dive instead of Mega Flare, and Multiple Rocket Punch instead of TWWT. Also Prevail instead of Counter again, it looks like.

... I managed to mess up at least once in just about every choice. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 14, 2013, 09:24:24 PM
Geez Raineh, get yourself together xD

For instance, Ketaro can make a note to add 13 to the damage rolls against the regular unknowns and 3 against the others.   
I made a note :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 14, 2013, 09:50:29 PM
Geez Raineh, get yourself together xD

I'm trying! D:

It's just that I can't change two of these things, and can't really fix the third for two levels. :(
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 16, 2013, 07:45:05 AM
Are we on another round again? Two pages of OOC, remarks about failed Saves, hmm...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 09:28:12 AM
Umm... no, we're not.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 16, 2013, 10:21:39 AM
Only four players acted yet. This is suposed to be fast-paced, but since some players got delayed by rules confusions, I'll give some leeway for this turn.

Also wee two pages of posts, give me an headups if I miss some important question.

To be honest I had been planning to grab Gravity Wall at the next level to more or less double my hp.
The energy requirement is very low for its power. It could be an energy shield instead.

The alternative could be using energy as hp. Sorta.
The Gravity Wall converts energy at a ratio of 1 energy = X hp to absorb damage. The GW could auto-deactivate when it reaches a certain energy minimum (not zero).
Otherwise an upgrade for the GW could be it having an energy bank of its own before it digs into the mecha's. If a mecha reaches 0 energy, it could maybe redirect GW energy to itself but the GW would become inactive and unable to regen energy until the mecha would be able to refill its arsenal again.
The GW's energy bank and energy recovery rate would otherwise be independent of the Mecha's but they could be improved as well. (Investing Battery Upgrades for it it having a reactor of its own). Just throwing ideas.

Edit: Thinking of external energy banks you can plug upon yourself for refills, that sounds like something nice to explore too.
Too complicated. I'll just increase the energy costs by a factor of five. Basic Huckbein can thus Gravity Wall 4 shots, The Boxer can Gravity Wall 10. Sure you can take arsenals to increase energy storage, but maneuvers and other stuff also costs energy.

1) Mmm, I see how it would work gestalted. But the rules as they are kind of sideline anyone who gets their mecha destroyed for a Very Long Time in a pure mecha thing.
2) I remember you ruling that it wouldn't apply to the 'run through them' damage from Uncontainable Dive, even if no attacks were made and that was it. Miscommunication?
3) ... they can be combined with multiattack? I thought we were limited to iteratives here? This is why I avoided extra natural attacks, because I'm not sure how they work with mecha.
1)Well, what would you sugest? I'll admit that those rules were indeed suposed to be used with gestalt. The idea was that you're not just a mecha pilot. You have stuff you do when you're not in a cockpit, and that comes mostly from the other gestalt half. Anyway if non-mook mechas were easily replaceable, it would just feel kinda cheap. Or perhaps some raise-dead costly proceeding? With the mecha running on lower settings for some time until it's fully repaired?
2)It would apply to the first target you damage with Uncontainable Dive.
3)You can use multiple mecha weapons just as if they were multiple manufactured weapons (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7174.msg166308#msg166308).

That's halfway through the series. I was thinking more towards the beginning, like before Kamina goes bye-bye. And the other comparisons easily in my mind for mid-series enemies are Gunbuster and Diebuster, and those fights are complete curbstomps (also the first time the main mecha see use) :p
Well, you already had a curbstomp battle in your backstory. You're not a rookie that somehow ended in the commands of a supre-prototype she barely understands. You're a veteran hero with a legendary track record, and thus the Administration wouldn't bother hiring you (and a bunch of other more-or-less equally strong dudes) unless the enemies were worthy indeed! :P

Remind me where the Central Dome is, again? :lmao
Right over the lair of a dragon and an army of mutants, experimental labs, renegade robot armies and a dark temple? :lmao

I don't expect I'm really going to survive this fight, seeing as most of my defences are easily penetrated with the 'half natural armour' stuff and the lack of the ability to use Guts to heal. Hm.
You can always make a run for the  smaller civilian buildings.

Geez Raineh, get yourself together xD

I'm trying! D:

It's just that I can't change two of these things, and can't really fix the third for two levels. :(
I would be willing to allow you some free retraining after this battle, considering again this indeed is experimental material we're using here.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
1) Mmm, I see how it would work gestalted. But the rules as they are kind of sideline anyone who gets their mecha destroyed for a Very Long Time in a pure mecha thing.
2) I remember you ruling that it wouldn't apply to the 'run through them' damage from Uncontainable Dive, even if no attacks were made and that was it. Miscommunication?
3) ... they can be combined with multiattack? I thought we were limited to iteratives here? This is why I avoided extra natural attacks, because I'm not sure how they work with mecha.
1)Well, what would you sugest? I'll admit that those rules were indeed suposed to be used with gestalt. The idea was that you're not just a mecha pilot. You have stuff you do when you're not in a cockpit, and that comes mostly from the other gestalt half. Anyway if non-mook mechas were easily replaceable, it would just feel kinda cheap. Or perhaps some raise-dead costly proceeding? With the mecha running on lower settings for some time until it's fully repaired?
2)It would apply to the first target you damage with Uncontainable Dive.

1) Real Pilots should be covered by their pre-existing backlog of mecha (it's not as if they get thrown away, right?), it's mostly ship captains and super pilots, who only have the one item. Loss of arsenal access for a robot one step above (so, basically, a baseline Real of the appropriate level) their normal access? Or go with the same thing Real pilots are likely to do--mecha one tier down, do your best to make up for it with options.

2) Would Valour apply to the last target struck if I went with the 'hit them with my sword' rather than 'run through them' options?

Quote
Remind me where the Central Dome is, again? :lmao
Right over the lair of a dragon and an army of mutants, experimental labs, renegade robot armies and a dark temple? :lmao

Also in the middle of the forest. :p

Worst place to ever put that thing, though.

Quote
Geez Raineh, get yourself together xD

I'm trying! D:

It's just that I can't change two of these things, and can't really fix the third for two levels. :(
I would be willing to allow you some free retraining after this battle, considering again this indeed is experimental material we're using here.

Coming up with a justification is easy enough, given low Wisdom. Forgot to change settings etc. from 'teaching' to 'fighting'. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 16, 2013, 12:21:17 PM
How does a Moon Vanguard uses the maneuvers known in another person's mecha? Pilots have no readied maneuvers, being limited only by energy, so they don't have to ready the mecha's maneuvers to use them. A Moon Vanguard has readied maneuvers and recovers by energy; must they ready the maneuvers of the mecha?

Also, what's up with Amaterasu?
Is the mecha wrecked or not? No idea where the escape pod is launching, if that's the case. Kinda waiting on that to figure out where I'm going next.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 16, 2013, 12:33:43 PM
How does a Moon Vanguard uses the maneuvers known in another person's mecha? Pilots have no readied maneuvers, being limited only by energy, so they don't have to ready the mecha's maneuvers to use them. A Moon Vanguard has readied maneuvers and recovers by energy; must they ready the maneuvers of the mecha?
If you have a readied maneuver from moon vanguard and are inside a mecha, you can use it by spending the mecha's energy at the 5xManeuver level cost. Just like Katherine did.

Also, what's up with Amaterasu?
Is the mecha wrecked or not? No idea where the escape pod is launching, if that's the case. Kinda waiting on that to figure out where I'm going next.
That's up to Raineh Daze to answer, since she's the one keeping tabs on her mecha's HP.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 12:57:45 PM
I can't remember what action it is to get out of the damn pods.

... said pod is also smaller than Amaterasu can be. Amusing.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 16, 2013, 01:01:21 PM
Cleaned up a bit the escape pod rules.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 16, 2013, 01:21:28 PM
Huh, I don't mean how they use their readied maneuvers within another mecha. I mean how they use the other mecha's maneuvers, since it keeps those known by the pilot that owns it and other pilots using that mecha can use them too.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 01:23:14 PM
Right, I'll try and have a post up later. I'm focusing on preparing for something tomorrow morning right now, so... I'll post when I'm done with this. ^^;
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 16, 2013, 04:03:06 PM
Huh, I don't mean how they use their readied maneuvers within another mecha. I mean how they use the other mecha's maneuvers, since it keeps those known by the pilot that owns it and other pilots using that mecha can use them too.

You can only use them if it is currently burrowed or stolen. Your companion borrowed it out of free will, and it isn't underground, thus you can't use them right now. :p

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 16, 2013, 04:15:23 PM
That can be arranged pretty easily. How does it work then?

Did you seriously edit the pilot entries to make a spell error into them... >_>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 16, 2013, 04:25:17 PM
I had edited them earlier today to add the "if your mecha gets blown up you get a weaker replacement until you redeem yourself" clause. The burrowed typo however already was there.

Another typo that also was already there was that the super robot only knows the maneuvers and stances learned from the Super Pilot class. Will fix both now.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 05:12:48 PM
Hmm... so! Here's a question: if I'm stood beside one of the Civilian Facilities, would I see an easy way in?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 16, 2013, 05:19:24 PM
From what you saw while landing, some automatic doors look operational and unlocked. Even your natural 1 on spot couldn't obscure the glowing signs pointing to the building entrances. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 05:21:52 PM
I always get a natural 1 on memory checks.

Also, my incredibly shitty luck with rolls continues. XD

Well, she should be inside, now, unless there's no doors on those squares. :<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 16, 2013, 05:55:36 PM
Gosh, it'd be interesting if we could take some time to connect another mech to Yata and give its systems a jump until it starts up and its own regeneration takes over and fixes itself.

Like trying to start a car with a dead battery with another car's battery  :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 05:56:56 PM
Unfortunately, I have Fast Healing and not Regeneration, so I can't just sit in it reading until it gets up and running again. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 16, 2013, 06:14:45 PM
Well I was talking about the regeneration gained from the Nanomachines upgrade which your sheet says your mecha has.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 16, 2013, 06:15:27 PM
Well I was talking about the regeneration gained from the Nanomachines upgrade which your sheet says your mecha has.

I was talking about the shared buffs thing. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 17, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
Anomander: Since you didn't mention moving, I'm pretty sure you're still within 20ft of Aden and thus you benefit from his leader aura. +4 to attack and AC.

You were probably already aware of this but I'm trying to get into the habit of making sure everyone who should be benefiting from buffs is.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 17, 2013, 03:27:15 PM
Ha I'd be lucky to remember my own buffs. I noted an additional 8 Heat as self what I really meant was a +4 AC boost from my stance which has a differant, funny, name.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 17, 2013, 03:28:12 PM
My Con is high enough that heat is largely irrelevant. Unless I spam Divine Flame maneuvers like a maniac, I'm not going to go over. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 17, 2013, 03:53:05 PM
I outline all the buffs I am currently providing in the "actions" spoiler in my most recent post. It's probably a good idea for everyone to read over that and make sure they're benefitting from the ones they're supposed to be benefitting from (edit it into posts if needed.)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 17, 2013, 07:47:31 PM
Alright.

As to Raineh's heat, well, I'm pretty sure you could still manage to get some major steam going if you used a high level DF boost+strike+maxed stance heat for a few rounds. Nevermind maneuver fusion.  :)
But yeah. Pretty high cooldown rate you got.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 17, 2013, 07:51:17 PM
Why else would I fluff them as a living fusion generator, if they couldn't keep it going? :p

I do hope I'm not suddenly assaulted by a bunch of boomas, that would be disturbing. @_@

Here's a question: do Divine Flame maneuvers/anything that involves glowy light swords work as torches?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 17, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
It is in the maneuver explanation. They give off natural light to a radius around their effect.
As far as natural daylight goes, you can't get more natural than a sun's light.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 19, 2013, 12:03:58 PM
Amaterasu has gained a new appearance! (http://rainehdaze.deviantart.com/art/Amaterasu-Mercenary-Hero-379125239) ... yeah, the art's kind of rubbish. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 19, 2013, 06:51:48 PM
Is Harald still mia?  :-\
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 20, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
Something people seem to have overlooked about mecha mooks: They take max damage from non-mook enemies.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 20, 2013, 01:25:37 PM
Weeeeell... there is the issue that if any are around, I don't think it's clearly spelled out, since we don't have enemies' class lists. :lmao

Does that max damage thing apply to damage from maneuvers and non-hitting them abilities?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 20, 2013, 01:44:52 PM
That's why you have the guy with stratospheric knowledge skills I believe. :p

And I just realized the Is are probably mooks from the "mass produced" description. So is it worth it to get a damage bonus against mecha that have very few HP to begin with, or should I go for the divine or arcane (probably the Divine, since they're described as being bigger and tougher)?
Granted, that was quite a bit of pages ago. And there's some non-mooks mixed in so still need to roll when using area attacks. Mostly aimed at Ketaro and his bazillion attack rolls. :P

Anyway yes, the maximization applies to anything that deals HP damage.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 20, 2013, 02:09:42 PM
Oops. Well, next time I guess we need to check. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 20, 2013, 06:39:30 PM
Osle, I hate to be a dick, but...

A) Did you remember I had Alert active?
B) Assuming the constant concealment effect from SCM applies to the mecha, did you remember to roll for the miss chance?  :flutter

I realize there's a lot to keep track of, and I totally forgot to list my buffs, sorry.  :-\
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 20, 2013, 06:42:44 PM
I missed the alert, then you take less 32 damage, gonna update it in the IC.

It was however ignoring miss chance since it used Strike because of the long shot range.

You do well in pointing that kind of stuff, lots of details to keep track with a big party such as this.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 20, 2013, 06:46:21 PM
Hmm, I've forgotten the ruling again: Valour works like a critical, yes? You roll the dice twice? :lmao

... also something about the limits on taking extra Heat, which I can't find in the Divine Flame stuff. Annoying.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 20, 2013, 07:25:07 PM
Something people seem to have overlooked about mecha mooks: They take max damage from non-mook enemies.

What? Thats a thing? I've never even looked at the mecha mook class!  :lmao
How do we even know what is a mook and what isn't then? You can see the dice rolls anyways though so have you just been taking care of that yourself till now?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 20, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
Knowledge skills are how we know what's a mook.

When Olsecamo gave the results of my checks to ID he mentioned that the real robots that made up most of the enemy forces were not top of the line mechas but mass produced models. I took that to mean "they're mooks."
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 21, 2013, 10:10:34 AM
I missed the alert, then you take less 32 damage, gonna update it in the IC.

It was however ignoring miss chance since it used Strike because of the long shot range.

You do well in pointing that kind of stuff, lots of details to keep track with a big party such as this.

Wait, Strike applies to all attacks in a full attack? Or was this three shots by different mecha all using Strike?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 10:14:57 AM
I missed the alert, then you take less 32 damage, gonna update it in the IC.

It was however ignoring miss chance since it used Strike because of the long shot range.

You do well in pointing that kind of stuff, lots of details to keep track with a big party such as this.

Wait, Strike applies to all attacks in a full attack? Or was this three shots by different mecha all using Strike?

Strike applies to all attacks in a full attack.
Valour applies to all attacks in a full attack.

'Next attack only' is Love.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 21, 2013, 10:56:12 AM
Got it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 11:21:33 AM
-Notes down Arsenal changes to go for when available.-

Found the ruling I was looking for. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9781.msg164868#msg164868)

And the Heat thing. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9781.msg165554#msg165554)

Excellent.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 12:20:03 PM
@SorO: the funnel feats have been moved to the pilot feat thread, I think?

Maybe that's enough to kill the damn thing. :<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 21, 2013, 03:05:33 PM
Yeah he did.

Figures too. He had a theme of open 4~9 tabs to build a Pilot, of course he'd update the Funnel thread so you needed two tabs to figure out what the hell it does.

Edit - Also Transforming also doesn't take an Action, for some reason I thought it used a Move. *shrugs*

Edit - Oh F*ck me. The Funnel takes a Full-Round Action to deploy, the Feat only increases it's movement speed. Just ignore the Funnel stuff, going to retrain those feats out for something that doesn't punch my crotch so hard. I mean, for +21 damage and +18 DR I've sunk three Feats into this system and I *still* have to reduce my Speed to 1/3 and create a parallel debate of healing in combat to know if it's even worth standing around doing nothing for an entire round to use.

Going to replace them with the Spirit Regen and Spirit Up x3. I'll just Spam Refresh every single turn. More often than not +12d10 > 18N anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 04:17:06 PM
How are you going to replace three feats with four? :huh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 21, 2013, 04:25:40 PM
In the 3 levels it takes to retrain 3 feats he'll also get an additional feat making 4?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 04:37:10 PM
And yeah, things are kinda disorganised, but I don't have the ability to rearrange it myself, so not much can be done. Just have to live with it. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 21, 2013, 07:19:05 PM
Min-Yung uses Parry to try and block pretty much everything. See how much damage she suffers after that.
Deflection to deflect an attack off.

Note: Every time the U2 would lose a grapple check, it takes slam damage. Even if it is the one that makes the grapple check to do something.
Note2: Min-Yung is immune to bludgeoning damage. Those 3 punches made against her might deal nothing. If such is the case, she wouldn't bother Parrying them.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 21, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
Edit - Also Transforming also doesn't take an Action, for some reason I thought it used a Move. *shrugs*

Transforming uses a swift action. The rule is under the Mecha Special Properties spoiler in the Real Robots List thread.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 07:32:05 PM
Mmm... wish I could rearrange things. Spent too much time thinking about this earlier. >.<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 21, 2013, 08:49:49 PM
I missed the alert, then you take less 32 damage, gonna update it in the IC.

It was however ignoring miss chance since it used Strike because of the long shot range.

You do well in pointing that kind of stuff, lots of details to keep track with a big party such as this.

Wait, Strike applies to all attacks in a full attack? Or was this three shots by different mecha all using Strike?

Strike applies to all attacks in a full attack.
Valour applies to all attacks in a full attack.

'Next attack only' is Love.
Eerr, Valor is "Next Attack only" as well.

Edit - Oh F*ck me. The Funnel takes a Full-Round Action to deploy, the Feat only increases it's movement speed. Just ignore the Funnel stuff, going to retrain those feats out for something that doesn't punch my crotch so hard. I mean, for +21 damage and +18 DR I've sunk three Feats into this system and I *still* have to reduce my Speed to 1/3 and create a parallel debate of healing in combat to know if it's even worth standing around doing nothing for an entire round to use.
So, what do you think would be a more fair activation cost for the funnel? And the faster funnel feat should reduce it to what? :)

And yeah, things are kinda disorganised, but I don't have the ability to rearrange it myself, so not much can be done. Just have to live with it. :lmao
Hopefully I'll get around that over summer when I don't have any more RL work to worry about. :P

Min-Yung uses Parry to try and block pretty much everything. See how much damage she suffers after that.
Deflection to deflect an attack off.

Note: Every time the U2 would lose a grapple check, it takes slam damage. Even if it is the one that makes the grapple check to do something.
Note2: Min-Yung is immune to bludgeoning damage. Those 3 punches made against her might deal nothing. If such is the case, she wouldn't bother Parrying them.
-Speaking of which, you take the -3 penalty for each extra attempt whetever you're sucessful or not. The maneuver says sucessive after all. Plus the Puppeteer only has 44 energy, and you're burning 10 energy each time you use Parry. And you had already used some maneuvers before that.
-I'm pretty sure don't need to make grapple checks to attack with light/natural weapons while grappled.
-Noted.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 21, 2013, 09:06:26 PM
Based on his most recent IC post, SorO thought Faster Funnel reduced the time to a swift action. In that case, the activation time without the feat would have been a standard action?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 21, 2013, 09:20:27 PM
That's... weird. I thought Valour was the whole round, rather than just the one attack, given that it's twice the cost of Strike and that... well, negates all chance of missing except for against one particular Spirit. Should fix the damage rolls, then, I guess. >_>;

Can't say I'm convinced that negating AC, cover, concealment, miss chances, and forcing opponents to fail a save against damage for an entire round is half as valuable as doubling damage on one attack, honestly.

EDIT: Also, I roll higher than average and those're the rolls I have to reroll. Meanwhile, the lower-than-average roll is the first one. Whyyyy? :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 21, 2013, 09:46:53 PM
Oh, I read that as successful rather than successive. My bad. Only 3 parries then. Not enough for a fourth.
Also confused the energy cost with Moon Vanguard's maneuver recovery energy costs.  :nonono

If the punch also qualifies as force to bypass that immunity, she's healed by that. Just in case.
It won't have to make grapple checks but would if he also tried to move off. The attacks take a -4 penalty though.

Edit: Also, more of a request, could you keep the square-grid on the map from now on and keep it as a template to copy on future maps? It makes it easier to calculate movement I won't have to add myself one every time you make a new map. Image the others would welcome it too. Maybe put it at transparency ~40.

Q: Does One with the Machine switch the mecha's base hit points with its own or does it switch its total hit points? Mostly wondering if OwtM ignores mecha arsenal that increases hit points or if they are added them on top of it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 22, 2013, 12:35:02 AM
Edit - Also Transforming also doesn't take an Action, for some reason I thought it used a Move. *shrugs*
Transforming uses a swift action. The rule is under the Mecha Special Properties spoiler in the Real Robots List thread.
:sobbing
Oh dear god. One sentence, that's it. One sentence. "This is a swift action." Can Transform contain it? No.
Let's toss it in another thread.
Which one?
The one you'd probably never check.

[/summery of SorO's entire experience with the robot threads]


So, what do you think would be a more fair activation cost for the funnel? And the faster funnel feat should reduce it to what? :)
Well that I guess depends.

So my opinion goes beyond just lessen it's action. The whole thing needs rehauled. Defensively the entire thing could probably be ran as a Swift Action. Stone Dragon's Stances or Dwarven Defender of the other 1,001 stances consume such, grant a bit less, tend and totally block movement. But this is a Feat investment, power consumption, and built in weakness of it can be offhandedly destroyed and the pro/con elements suggest while maybe the Funnel one up things in numerical bonuses, at least it's not terribly off.

Offensively, Damage wise it's not bad either for the way I think things are set up. 5d6 damage? My Spellcaster penalized Robot's DR is high enough to ignore it. Seriously, investing yet another Feat into it brings it up to 21 damage on average, it'd hit me for a single point on average. Two Feats for +1 damage, even Weapon Specialization deals more and can Crit. So it sounds like it's nothing but a trash killer that offers next to nothing against the machines you actually took the time to stat up. By default requiring another Feat to allow Swift Action deployment sounds like a good idea because it is scrapping trash for you and that is worth something in the action economy. But the whole Speed Penalty for keeping it near you is just kind of off. Slow offensive is iconically a heavy hitter, not rapid fire M&M rubberband gun.

The CC effect is a thing of it's own. Any high mental based class (casters) can deploy it and with an Action less than Concentration it can fly around bending it's self to hit the maximum number of targets with a high DC effect. And it is a high DC effect, at 10+1/2 level it's equivalent to the highest cast able spell by a Sorcerer at any given level. A Dazed creature is a creature unable to act so it is a very severe Save-or-Suck. A Standard Action on every turn would be the starting point of this ability and you'd work backwards from there, factoring Feat/energy cost etc.

So what would I do? Like I mentioned, total rehaul. Ditch the independent flight stuff. The Funnel is part of your Mech and stays with you. Attached by cables sounds cool, because I just realized they also work like a battery and not only is that f*cking complicated but it's a pain in the ass to track on a tabletop where you don't have days to figure out how your turn even operates. You could call it energy linkage with bolts of lightning if you like instead of cables but the point is it sticks near you and it consumes X energy a turn and does without the current ton of micromanaging it has now. Keep the ability to attack it like a Swarm, nice flavor and fun concept to mess with. It's Core elemental wouldn't be all over the place from worthless to game breakingly bad, but centralize it's theme as a Feat that gives you a cool usage of your Mech's Energy reserves.

* Defensively the shielding arrays forces you to move slow or it cannot configure it's self fast enough to handle both your movement and the incoming projectiles. Swift Action deployment, immediate benefit loss for moving to fast until you spend a Swift Action to reconfigure it in a round you haven't moved more than it's limitation. Not 100% on movement limit, I'm in favor of allowing 5ft steps but certainly a number less than 30ft.
* Offensively the additional laser pods harass a nearby target(s). Maybe a Move Action to declare a single target and it shoots till the target it dead and goes inert until it receives a new order with a separate Move Action consuming action for it to simply fire an area spread in front of you. I mean, you're basically spending a Feat for the option to expend your Mech's Energy for more damage that probably will go ignored. A huge action requirement isn't needed here but on principle it should be something. Even a Swift Action per turn for a simple fast fire addition to w/e you attack would be fine. Burning Blade for instance is +3d6+15 as a Swift Action, none-repeatable but said Maneuver doesn't consume Energy each turn. Pick one, two, or all three  as the laser option *shrugs*.
* Crowd-Control wise, the energy net or electrified cable can be used to capture nearby mechs or even be used to render them helpless against your finishing blow. At best this thing should work in tandom with your Standard or Full-Round Actions. Like Dazing multiple foes in front of you is it's own Standard Action, or as a Standard Action against a single target you can use it in tandem with a single attack like a more powerful version of Bluff in combat or like Spirit being invested in an attack or like Energy being invested in an attack. Just a different method for a different outcome. Like Save or face an Auto Crit sounds cool.
* Feat Cost, it'd be a Feat for each system, and each one sucks Energy separately. IE deploying both the Shield Arrays and the floating Laser Pods would consume 24 energy a turn (12 each). The Improvement Feat would apply to only one of them each time it's taken. Costs a full 6 Feats to run the best Funnel system ever, 1 for energy options, 2 for superior energy options, and 2~3 for said option diversity. So the Cost set up appears pretty well set that way as well.
* The proof reading. Now go back up and relook at things. Does it look like actions are spent well, is it giving choice in how to expend costs, is it cool, is the total gained not extraordinary high for spent? I have no idea, it's 11:30pm and I should have been in bed two hours ago. Offense/CC have options based on action spent but not defense is the only thing I can spot at that moment.

So I guess good luck making sense of my rambling?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 22, 2013, 11:19:42 AM
Does the change to Strike's Spirit cost go into effect this round or the next?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 22, 2013, 04:27:34 PM
Osle, that Sleet Storm looks awfully small.

Is it because I'm reading the grids wrong, or does it have a 20' radius instead of a 40' radius?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 22, 2013, 05:56:43 PM
It looks like a 40ft radius to me. It extends to row AQ and column 10. If you count from BA-2 (which is one of the squares occupied by the enemy the cloud was centered on) that's a radius of 8 squares or 40ft in 5ft squares.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 24, 2013, 01:29:48 PM
Almost summer vacations... I can smell them...

As usual, let me know if I missed something.

Oh, I read that as successful rather than successive. My bad. Only 3 parries then. Not enough for a fourth.
Also confused the energy cost with Moon Vanguard's maneuver recovery energy costs.  :nonono

If the punch also qualifies as force to bypass that immunity, she's healed by that. Just in case.
It won't have to make grapple checks but would if he also tried to move off. The attacks take a -4 penalty though.
Notice mecha attacks only count as Force when it would be advantageous for the attacking mecha.
Anyway that's two sucessful parries and one deflection, minus the punches, so one mook attack gets trough for 31 damage.

Edit: Also, more of a request, could you keep the square-grid on the map from now on and keep it as a template to copy on future maps? It makes it easier to calculate movement I won't have to add myself one every time you make a new map. Image the others would welcome it too. Maybe put it at transparency ~40.
(click to show/hide)

How do you put transparency on openoffice draw again?

Q: Does One with the Machine switch the mecha's base hit points with its own or does it switch its total hit points? Mostly wondering if OwtM ignores mecha arsenal that increases hit points or if they are added them on top of it.
Total hit points, so doesn't stack with arsenal HP boosters.

SorO_Lost:You have some good ideas there, however I don't really have the time for a funnel overhaul. Let's talk of that again about that in the mid of next week.

Osle, that Sleet Storm looks awfully small.

Is it because I'm reading the grids wrong, or does it have a 20' radius instead of a 40' radius?
Check the grided map on the spoiler above.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 24, 2013, 01:35:10 PM
I'm just waiting for exam results, now. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO UNTIL MID AUGUST. :p

Does the change to Strike's Spirit cost go into effect this round or the next?

Missed that, though.

Yay, grid squares~

I think Ano was assuming drawing software, not... well, that. I don't think you can get transparency. What're you using in it for that sort of outcome? Table?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 24, 2013, 01:39:52 PM
I'm tecnically finished with doing exams as well for this semester, but still have to prepare an hadrontherapy radiation.

As for Strike, I guess it's fair to let you use it for the old price of 20 spirit one last turn.

EDIT: I do my campaign maps with openoffice draw. Perhaps not the best I admit, but easy to use, free and automatically converts to png format to upload to photobucket.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 24, 2013, 01:55:52 PM
I meant which tools on Open Office? Only thing that I can think of is using tables.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 24, 2013, 03:28:41 PM
Again, open office draw. Making lots and lots of lines. And placing a bunch of squares with letters for the "coordinates".
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 24, 2013, 03:35:37 PM
Huh. Sounds time-consuming (by table, I meant there's a table tool IN Draw).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on June 24, 2013, 06:40:46 PM
Oh god having a grid overlay makes everything so much easier  :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on June 24, 2013, 08:29:18 PM
It so does.

My brain thanks you for it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 24, 2013, 08:29:52 PM
So does mine. :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 25, 2013, 09:37:21 PM
I know about the force. Knew it wouldn't heal it. Just mentioning to explain the immunity.

Great job with the grid. Transparency won't be needed as this works just fine. Color could be changed if you use darker rooms to remain visible.
Thanks for the clarification on the One w/ Machine.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 26, 2013, 03:48:15 PM
Pointing out a couple rule errors that occurred last round but slipped under my radar. Not gonna fix them retroactively, but they'll apply starting this turn.

Concerned Ninja Citizen:Sacred Treasure Land doesn't work if the enemy is inside the range. That's why it has the clause that you can try to expel opponents from inside at the end of your turn. But if they manage to stay close, they'll get to attack whitout need of the save.

Anomander:A mecha isn't affected by size changes coming from the pilot, thus you cannot use half-golem to grow the puppeteer.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 26, 2013, 04:14:26 PM
But they are affected by self-buff abilities. The growing ability is a self-buff, so by the rules it should apply. Unless there is a separate rule somewhere concerning growth buffs.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 26, 2013, 04:20:00 PM
But they are affected by self-buff abilities. The growing ability is a self-buff, so by the rules it should apply. Unless there is a separate rule somewhere concerning growth buffs.

It came up back when I was initially writing Amaterasu: if it applied, the Yatagarasu would be Colossal ++++ right now and quickly heading for the same size as Diebuster (http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/image/diebuster/0606.jpg).

Basically, things get ridiculous way too quickly if self-buff growth abilities apply.

Much as I would like to get in a contest with TTGL. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 26, 2013, 04:26:04 PM
Indeed. The size clause is an exception to the self-buff sharing one.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 26, 2013, 05:36:12 PM
Is dispel magic considered an attack for the purposes of Sanctuary?

Pointing out a couple rule errors that occurred last round but slipped under my radar. Not gonna fix them retroactively, but they'll apply starting this turn.

Concerned Ninja Citizen:Sacred Treasure Land doesn't work if the enemy is inside the range. That's why it has the clause that you can try to expel opponents from inside at the end of your turn. But if they manage to stay close, they'll get to attack whitout need of the save.

The way I read it, it's automatic, not an action I choose to take:

Quote
At the end of each of your turns any creatures you deem an enemy inside it are pushed to the nearest border unless they suceed on a Reflex save whitout provoking attacks of oportunity.

Or do I need to state who I deem an enemy (I had thought that was self evident in this case, but I'll start doing it from now on)?

EDIT: To the other players, if I was to attempt to use the "expel" aspect of Sacred Treasure Land to herd the enemy (probably the ones in the middle since herding the ones who are currently in the nuclear sun's radius seems counter productive), which way should I try to push them? Towards the party or away from it?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 26, 2013, 07:11:17 PM
Where is the clause? All I can find is a mention that the mecha is not affected by the pilot's size. I don't see anything about abilities altering size (as they could be used on the mecha or even others, such as the Enlarge spells, not the pilot, whose size wouldn't change).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on June 26, 2013, 07:12:43 PM
It was a ruling made specifically for this game. It may not be written in the rules post yet.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on June 27, 2013, 04:40:55 AM
I believe it would be implicit that when stating that the mecha isn't affected by the pilot's size, it also isn't affected by size changes to the pilot. The alternative is that the rule would be 99% useless, because you would be able to easily bypass it with any kind of alternate form/change shape/Deceivingly Innocent Form that allows you to change your size.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 27, 2013, 08:04:44 AM
There is a difference between not being able to alter your basic size and not being affected by effects altering size. The former makes sense since you can change the mecha's base size by its own ability, so being able to also get bigger by the pilot's base size (though I'm not sure how that is a problem) could be seen as just free growths for the mecha.
Significant by itself considering a mecha has means to change its natural size but not to alter its size temporarily.
Not 99% useless. It actually makes sense as is.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 29, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
As I mentioned in Askewed, out on vacation. Correction on Wreath of Flames, it's end of my turn it deals damage. Not the start of theirs.
At the end of each of your turns, any enemy adjacent to you or sharing your space takes 1d6 points of fire damage.
Your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of fire damage.


If someone wants to handle my turn, pump my other 6th level Maneuver into the sun to CC them some more (same +x in size, 12d10 dmg, daze/stun/paralyze). Check with the DM if they are dead, if they are move on to the next target. Either way, 70 of my 72 spirit up to take another turn to fry something with my full breath weapon (14d6 atomic +1d6 con dmg, also 7d6 next round and 2d6 every round afterwards for an hour) and recover my Maneuvers.  If I'm still not back by the next turn; Mega Flare + Shooting Sun is my Breath filler (1d20+30*2+5d6 atomic).

Thanks.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 30, 2013, 08:15:41 AM
+30 MU radius all the time isn't necessarily safe. :lmao

So, here's a question: what do we do if you get hit and fail the concentration check to maintain Subterranean Sun?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on June 30, 2013, 11:20:46 PM
You mean the Creeping Sun? Sub Sun has no concentration to maintain it.

If so, it ends. Imploding harmlessly to nothingness. Effects depending on concentration to be maintained always end when concentration is disrupted.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on June 30, 2013, 11:27:02 PM
Hell's Artificial Sun, actually. I just got the maneuver name wrong. It specifically calls out a concentration check when damaged in order to keep maintaining it.

Also, the question wasn't 'what happens rules-wise' but rather 'what should we do for SorO's turn if that happens'. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 01, 2013, 01:31:43 AM
Well, as instructed, there is the breath, then the breath filler.
Character recovers maneuvers, starts another one.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on July 01, 2013, 05:16:58 PM
These questions seem to have been overlooked, so reposting:

Is dispel magic considered an attack for the purposes of Sanctuary?

EDIT: To the other players, if I was to attempt to use the "expel" aspect of Sacred Treasure Land to herd the enemy (probably the ones in the middle since herding the ones who are currently in the nuclear sun's radius seems counter productive), which way should I try to push them? Towards the party or away from it?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 04, 2013, 12:28:33 PM
There is a difference between not being able to alter your basic size and not being affected by effects altering size. The former makes sense since you can change the mecha's base size by its own ability, so being able to also get bigger by the pilot's base size (though I'm not sure how that is a problem) could be seen as just free growths for the mecha.
Significant by itself considering a mecha has means to change its natural size but not to alter its size temporarily.
Not 99% useless. It actually makes sense as is.
Except in that case creatures with the power to get bigger automatically get the bigger mechas, which completely defeats half the purpose of mechas (to allow regular humies to face "make my monster grow" on the same scale). I purposedly made that ruling to stop Raineh Dazeh's character from stacking her non-pilot gestalt half with DIF from stacking growths with her already massive mecha, so I naively believed other players would understand diferent sizes from other sources wouldn't stack either.

Anyway I'm both the DM of the campaign and author of those homebrew rules, so I'm the one who gets the final word on semantic details.

The puppeteer's geting back to small next turn. Feel free to swap that particular half-golem part for another.

These questions seem to have been overlooked, so reposting:

Is dispel magic considered an attack for the purposes of Sanctuary?
Yes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 04, 2013, 07:59:50 PM
Quote
Except in that case creatures with the power to get bigger automatically get the bigger mechas, which completely defeats half the purpose of mechas (to allow regular humies to face "make my monster grow" on the same scale). I purposedly made that ruling to stop Raineh Dazeh's character from stacking her non-pilot gestalt half with DIF from stacking growths with her already massive mecha, so I naively believed other players would understand diferent sizes from other sources wouldn't stack either.
Growths are affecting natural size. They are not abilities that temporarily alter size, such as the effect I'm using and Enlarge Person spell effects.

Quote
Anyway I'm both the DM of the campaign and author of those homebrew rules, so I'm the one who gets the final word on semantic details.
I don't mind a ruling and do not contest it, but if you wanted to explain the logic behind it I am equally willing to make see if your reasoning is in line with your decision, which is why above I'm looking into verifying if you had banned it for a character that was stacking natural size increases as opposed to abilities granting temporary unnatural size increases/reductions. I am fine with either outcome, clarity is just one of the few things I care about.

Quote
The puppeteer's geting back to small next turn. Feel free to swap that particular half-golem part for another.
'Kay.

@CoNiCi: Can't say for now since the maps are offline but I think toward the party might be best to avoid more ranged attacks (though perhaps a gamble since we haven't seen much of their melee power), otherwise pushing them off might be better to nuke them with AoE.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 06, 2013, 01:51:10 AM
Quote
Bonuses granted to everyone against real robots: +10 damage
Wait. What? Since when did we have that?
That might have had a bunch of our attacks deal significantly more hurts than we thought.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 06, 2013, 09:28:13 AM
Since last round I believe.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on July 06, 2013, 11:44:27 AM
Yup. Since the second round of combat, which was last round. 

It's a good idea to check my most recent post for active buffs. I try to mention them in this thread, but it moves pretty quickly so the notices often get lost.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 06, 2013, 01:01:11 PM
Updated the high end maps with new host.

Quote
Anyway I'm both the DM of the campaign and author of those homebrew rules, so I'm the one who gets the final word on semantic details.
I don't mind a ruling and do not contest it, but if you wanted to explain the logic behind it I am equally willing to make see if your reasoning is in line with your decision, which is why above I'm looking into verifying if you had banned it for a character that was stacking natural size increases as opposed to abilities granting temporary unnatural size increases/reductions. I am fine with either outcome, clarity is just one of the few things I care about.
Mechas don't change size unless you're taking levels in super robot and picking the growth upgrade. You know, that sounds simple enough, gonna add it to the mecha rules now. TTGL growing  prc can wait.

Quote
Bonuses granted to everyone against real robots: +10 damage
Wait. What? Since when did we have that?
That might have had a bunch of our attacks deal significantly more hurts than we thought.
I took them in acount with Katherine's attacks since Ketaro explicitly said he had forgot to add them to his rolls.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 06, 2013, 08:57:44 PM
I didn't miss much huh? Other than apparently Hell's Sun has Concentration checks. >.>

It's ok. I'm sure the breath + spirit bonus mega flare would finish off everyone in the corner even without the sun. Unless they are immune to Fire. Which would suck.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 09, 2013, 06:30:00 PM
Will update this tommorrow. Kuromaiken doesn't seem to have acted yet.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 09, 2013, 06:52:14 PM
EKISTORRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 09, 2013, 07:01:20 PM
Wrong thread.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 09, 2013, 08:04:28 PM
Ouch. Hang on.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 10, 2013, 06:09:46 PM
Ok guys, this first battle got a bunch of delays due to rules questions and the final push of my semester work, but from now on I'll seek to better enforce the 1-week turn.

SorO_Lost:I now noticed an incosistency on your sheet. You have Nanomachines 5 for just 5 upgrade points, when at best you can get Nanomachines 4 costing you 10 upgrade points.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 10, 2013, 06:10:15 PM
Baleful Polymorph? That works on mecha? What's it do? @_@

Also, some time in the next... month or so, Amaterasu's appearance shall be getting another update. Pretty much the same as now but with altered clothing. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 10, 2013, 06:20:03 PM
It turns you into a toad, rabbit or similarly weak and fragile 1 HD animal.

The second save might keep you from speaking or remembering things entirely, so... yeah.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 10, 2013, 06:31:18 PM
I was wondering if it would do something different on a giant robot, seeing as there's a complete scale difference and material difference.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 10, 2013, 06:32:03 PM
Did your miscommunication on the state of the U2 I was grappling with made me skip my turn?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 10, 2013, 06:35:01 PM
I was wondering if it would do something different on a giant robot, seeing as there's a complete scale difference and material difference.
Giant fluffy animal, still as fragile as the normal sized ones. :p

Did your miscommunication on the state of the U2 I was grappling with made me skip my turn?

Well, you didn't state any other action to do as I was updating the turn. You're still in time of retroactively doing something.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 10, 2013, 06:38:38 PM
I was wondering if it would do something different on a giant robot, seeing as there's a complete scale difference and material difference.
Giant fluffy animal, still as fragile as the normal sized ones. :p

These are some really weird nanomachines, then.

... also, would this mean that Katherine would be inside of its stomach? O_o
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 10, 2013, 06:39:06 PM
Yeah, but I learned that my actions couldn't work just before you decided to move the fight forward.
Doesn't give me much time to rethink all my options, amongst all the other stuff I gotta do.

The straight no-brain response would be to just make those attacks blade attacks and roll an attack roll instead of a pin and adjust the damage rolls to the blade and be done with it, but I like to consider alternatives since the situation is different now tht there is no divine mecha grappling with me. I'll think on it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 10, 2013, 07:04:21 PM
Um the arcane mecha enemy cast a spell within my reach, do I get an AoO or is it aware that it has to cast defensively?
I haven't shown that I have terribly long reach yet :p

Edit: Meeeeh, I forgot I'm around a corner. That probably constitutes cover so I can't AoO I guess. W/e I'ma just...pew pew.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 10, 2013, 07:18:58 PM
That is a very lucky save.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 10, 2013, 07:39:38 PM
I'm gonna see if people won't finish off the enemies by the end of this round...

Otherwise it'll be time to break out the Disc Launcher.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 10, 2013, 10:46:58 PM
That is a very lucky save.

It'd probably have been funnier had I failed.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 10, 2013, 10:57:21 PM
Mental note for later use
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 15, 2013, 07:55:26 AM
Anomander:Your attacks from the previous round leave the unknown at AP14 badly damaged, but not finished.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 17, 2013, 03:59:24 PM
Not sure how you use the breath as a standard.
Desolation Breath is a fullround and it requires a swift to have it also deal Con damage.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 17, 2013, 10:21:46 PM
Not sure how you use the breath as a standard.
Desolation Breath is a fullround and it requires a swift to have it also deal Con damage.
Dammit. So many pages, so many rules....

Remember when Breath Weapons were a Standard Action to use? Yeah me too.
Well, ignore the lingering and Con damage then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Harald on July 18, 2013, 07:09:12 AM
hello everyone !
Soprry to have leaved without warning,  I got some heavy troubles IRL that kept me from connecting here. I am sorry I did not manage to get some time to warn you earlier. As well, I am totally at loss with what is going on in your adventures, so i do think it is wiser that I quit. I hope you'll understand, and have fun all together !
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 07:13:36 AM
hello everyone !
Soprry to have leaved without warning,  I got some heavy troubles IRL that kept me from connecting here. I am sorry I did not manage to get some time to warn you earlier. As well, I am totally at loss with what is going on in your adventures, so i do think it is wiser that I quit. I hope you'll understand, and have fun all together !

Uh... honestly, I think all that you've missed is a single turn and your ship going boom. We're still in the same fight, even. :(
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 18, 2013, 07:22:43 AM
Speaking of which, last call before I update this tommorrow. Kuro and Ninja Citizen don't seem to have acted yet.

But yeah, same battle since we got delayed due to rules clarifications and whatnot so you didn't lose much plot-wise. Now that everybody's more used to the rules, I'll see about picking up the pace.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 18, 2013, 11:22:12 AM
Just point to whatever's still alive for nuking purposes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 18, 2013, 05:23:03 PM
It isn't too awesome to make others work to calculate and figure out your positioning for you.

That said, going AL-21+ would allow that breath to get the arcane, divine and two U1 mechas AND avoid Aden. You can avoid the cover by getting enough elevation to breath downward on them.
If you want to spare vegetation and other lifeforms on-ground you could do the same by breathing through the buildings from, say, AC-23 with 5 mu elevation. It would be more cost-efficient on movement, I imagine. Not sure on Aden's current elevation but he would be sure to avoid the breath with a 5 mu step to the right, getting full cover against it. The divine mecha would get cover though.
If the arcane mecha is dead or you chose to ignore it, you can get closer to AG-18/19 and deny the divine mecha its cover.

If Aden leaves the area or you don't mind breathing on him you can easily breath down on every enemy present from anywhere around if you do it from above them.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 05:27:34 PM
I think you're replying to the wrong person, there.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 18, 2013, 05:30:35 PM
Quote from: SorO_Lost
Move Action: Fly somewhere useful, try to angle multiple targets.
I think you're confused.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 05:38:27 PM
Oh, thought you were replying to Kuroi, since he asked pretty much the same thing.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 18, 2013, 06:28:49 PM
Yeah, I could use either an updated battlemap or a target list.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 18, 2013, 08:44:57 PM
The last map is good enough seeing how nobody really moved.
Kat is 5mu from her current position, Mao is closer now at AQ-26 and Amaterasu isn't coming back to help us wrap up the fight (and sort of venturing alone again to see if history will repeat itself and she'll get ganged up and killed - very low risks, but there is a pattern).

The arcane mecha got attacked by Kat, not sure if destroyed.
The U1 mecha in the green patch in the middle got attacked by Mao, unsure if destroyed. The lower right U1 is badly damaged.

That's about it. Aden could feel free to retreat to avoid getting focus-fired and maybe finish up the bottom right U1.
Hugo could have a set of actions made in case the arcane bot isn't killed and another if it is.

Some damage could be done in AoE to the two upper U1 since they are close together. If we could get rid of all the U1 the divine one would easier to get rid of.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 09:01:54 PM
If Os attacks me when I'm on my own again, after insinuating I should go look at the door and chucking a mecha at me, I'll be a bit annoyed. There is such a thing as overkill. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 18, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
Rule 37, RD.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 09:13:38 PM
Rule 37, RD.

... there are no girls on the internet?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 18, 2013, 09:21:11 PM
It isn't too awesome to make others work to calculate and figure out your positioning for you.
Raineh Daze, ketaro, & Anomander already acted, very likely killing their targets. So moving to breath on their already dead opponent is a wasted turn lost to the PbP system. I even bring this up:
Fancy way of saying I need a target. 95mu will get me to the other corner easily enough but no real time descriptions on who fell over and who hasn't.
All through I don't plan on killing everyone on the field. Obviously.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 09:22:19 PM
It isn't too awesome to make others work to calculate and figure out your positioning for you.
Raineh Daze, ketaro, & Anomander already acted, very likely killing their targets. So moving to breath on their already dead opponent is a wasted turn lost to the PbP system. I even bring this up:
Fancy way of saying I need a target. 95mu will get me to the other corner easily enough but no real time descriptions on who fell over and who hasn't.

I don't recall attacking the door. Can you even kill a door? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 18, 2013, 09:23:21 PM
I don't recall attacking the door. Can you even kill a door? :p
Adventurers never use doorknobs!
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 09:24:02 PM
I don't recall attacking the door. Can you even kill a door? :p
Adventurers never use doorknobs!

What's the sci-fi equivalent of that? I think all PSO doors open automatically if not locked. Weird things. @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 18, 2013, 09:26:54 PM
It isn't too awesome to make others work to calculate and figure out your positioning for you.
Raineh Daze, ketaro, & Anomander already acted, very likely killing their targets. So moving to breath on their already dead opponent is a wasted turn lost to the PbP system. I even bring this up:
Fancy way of saying I need a target. 95mu will get me to the other corner easily enough but no real time descriptions on who fell over and who hasn't.
All through I don't plan on killing everyone on the field. Obviously.

Not always so obvious, but I kinda agree with the general sentiment.

Either way, I didn't realize what a nasty combo Solid Fog + Caustic Mire could be. It's essentially a no-save immobilization trick.

I don't recall attacking the door. Can you even kill a door? :p
Adventurers never use doorknobs!

What's the sci-fi equivalent of that? I think all PSO doors open automatically if not locked. Weird things. @_@

Adventurers never push the open button on panels?

More to the point, any door in PSO that isn't locked nor opens automatically is either jammed or a part of the scenery.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 18, 2013, 09:28:44 PM
I don't recall attacking the door. Can you even kill a door? :p
Adventurers never use doorknobs!

What's the sci-fi equivalent of that? I think all PSO doors open automatically if not locked. Weird things. @_@
The roof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2GeOxnC0o#t=02m21s)?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 18, 2013, 09:34:41 PM
MY GODDAMN EARS BLEED FROM THE DUB
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 18, 2013, 09:43:39 PM
It DOES have one of the best themes ever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWn0nF-PFcE) for making dramatic announcements.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 18, 2013, 11:58:39 PM
Did you just set the city on fire?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 19, 2013, 12:30:49 AM
I'll have to ask you which way that question is pointed.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 19, 2013, 12:46:30 AM
The person that put an acid cloud on top of residential areas. To have it set on fire.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 19, 2013, 08:07:32 AM
It's more metal than anything else.

Still, iffy choice. Isn't that where we're going next?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 19, 2013, 09:59:16 AM
I thought the dome was the residential area.

Besides, not to worry. Even on MU scale, the acid sludge only deals 1d6 damage. By D&D norm, it's not enough to melt the ceiling.

And it's the vapors that are flammable, not the sludge, so I can just set the air on fire. Heck, I'd presume the sludge is coating the solid fog, anyway.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 20, 2013, 09:17:11 AM
Preparing the update right now. I'll have Aden Whitdraw out of the area to evade all the incoming Aoes, geting Bahamut a clear shot at breathing over all remaining enemies.

Also reposting for revelancy
SorO_Lost:I now noticed an incosistency on your sheet. You have Nanomachines 5 for just 5 upgrade points, when at best you can get Nanomachines 4 costing you 10 upgrade points.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 11:35:29 AM
Are you taunting me with the moon atomisers? :p

Also, is there some sort of skill check to try and stop the deletion, or can I do that without one? :lmao

Also also, should I alter mecha stats now or when it's eventually in working order again?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 20, 2013, 11:44:22 AM
Perhaps. :p

Operating terminals is basic knowledge for anybody in PSO. If you can't do it, then it's because you need some kind of password. In this case, you can stop the data deletion whitout need of any rolls. :P

You can alter mecha states now. That goes for other players as well, I'm giving everybody a one-time chance to change around their characters based on their performace this battle.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 20, 2013, 12:14:09 PM
Also reposting for revelancy
SorO_Lost:I now noticed an incosistency on your sheet. You have Nanomachines 5 for just 5 upgrade points, when at best you can get Nanomachines 4 costing you 10 upgrade points.
Hmm? Well technically it says I spent 10 points for the 5th rank which is what it cost originally. You never replied to Raineh Daze's discussion on Regen being so cheap so I never looked.

But that's ok, I was three points short. During creation I was striking reminder text instead of removing it in case I changed my mind. In the post to Notepad back to post clean up it lost the format and I apparently never readded points up. Unfortunately I cannot afford the Regen 5 without sacrificing two points else, I can however pick up Supporting which increases my AC by +3 (my mech has it's own actions? Sweet) to make up for the HP I am "cheating".
Quote from: New List
   Defense (36 points)
      1*13 = Plating: +5HP, +1 Na AC, +1 DR. 1*13= 1 point per rank, times 13 ranks.
      1*13 = Agility: +1 to Dodge and +5 mu to all Speeds.
      N*10 = Nanomachines: Fast Healing X/10ths of max hp. (rank 4, 1+2+3+4=10)
   Offense (0)
   Other (12 points)
      2 = Gravity Engine: The Super robot can fly at it's base speed with good maneuverability (costs 2).
      1 = Transform[Fighter]: Improve flight to *1.5 Land Speed(perfect), +4 Dodge, -2 DR.
      1*2 = Miniaturization: --Size, Colossal->Gargantuan->Huge.
      1*3 = Hyperdimensional Storage: +25 Arsenal Points.
         Arsenal (75/75 = 0+75 points, level III)
            50 = Amplifier(I): Mech channels 1 Su/SLA per Arsenal level(breath, any other 2).
            25 = Nacht System (I): Gain [Stealth], hide anywhere.
      1 = Sentient: 10 in all ability scores but Int (-), tries to find you.
      3 = Supporting: Robot's Immediate Action; +[1/4 lvl] to Attack/Saves/Dodge.
Does that look right?

Edit: Son-of-a... I totally spaced on my Sadism buff. Man, Megaflare would have been more powerful than my Breath Weapon last turn. Added a new "buffs" section to my Spell list. Also defined my Readied Maneuvers with better, easier, to understand text. Including the Sun's Concentration check. Never did finish my items, might do that later today.
Also new spoiler on my sheet.
(click to show/hide)
That hold true on your (oslecamo's) end?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 20, 2013, 01:25:36 PM
You can alter mecha states now. That goes for other players as well, I'm giving everybody a one-time chance to change around their characters based on their performace this battle.

Unexpectedly unscathed in a very unexpectedly lethal first battle.
I feel so awesome that I'm worried I'm going to take this COMPLETE VICTORY and get myself quickly killed  :cool
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 20, 2013, 01:46:45 PM
Priceless indeed.
The theoretical market price of those moon atomizers is pretty high!  :lol
More than half tempted to turn one or two of those into some perfectly sell-able exotic flower to get us better gear.  :evillaugh


Seriously though, I'm pretty sure you meant for those to be consumable single use items rather than items you can use at will with swift actions.
Team, I think it would be safe that I carry at least one of those moon atomizer and the other one goes to the next tankiest person in the team.
No point giving it to the more fragile ones of us whom wouldn't be able to use it if they die (unless they have the ability to somehow use a swift action to restore their destroyed mecha before it explodes and they get ejected off.

The Sol Atomizer and Monofluid would prob be best in the hands of our damage dealers.
Star Atomizer might be best on a tank as well, since the effect is area-based but would be fine on anyone (though our DPRs are probably better off spending their actions dealing damage than worrying about their hp, can let others take care of that.

I suggest that we do not see these consumables as treasure to split between eachother and more as strategical props that benefit the team itself. The money can be split easily enough.

=============================================

Now, are we acting like our AFKs characters are still around? Should we logically be trying to find our PDragon captain in the wrecks of the ship, or anything useful that could be salvaged from the wrecks? Or is he going to realize he didn't miss much and being found unconscious and waking up in the wrecks would make a fine and easy way to reintegrate him into the game?

Whats the XP gains, if any?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
Someone might want to PM Harald, I guess.

My tankiness shall be upped shortly. Just checking one quick thing before I start on reconfiguration. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 20, 2013, 02:00:19 PM
Priceless indeed.
The theoretical market price of those moon atomizers is pretty high!  :lol
More than half tempted to turn one or two of those into some perfectly sell-able exotic flower to get us better gear.  :evillaugh

Um, wow, that's quite evil.
Here, let me help you with that  :whistle
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 20, 2013, 02:24:49 PM
Does that look right?
At first glance yes, altough since I have my head kinda filled planning the SRW threads merging I wouldn't mind somebody else checking your numbers.

Edit: Son-of-a... I totally spaced on my Sadism buff. Man, Megaflare would have been more powerful than my Breath Weapon last turn. Added a new "buffs" section to my Spell list. Also defined my Readied Maneuvers with better, easier, to understand text. Including the Sun's Concentration check. Never did finish my items, might do that later today.
Also new spoiler on my sheet.
(click to show/hide)
That hold true on your (oslecamo's) end?
Yes.

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure you meant for those to be consumable single use items rather than items you can use at will with swift actions.
Correct, they're one-shot consumables. The names are taken directly from the items from PS series with basically the same effects.

Now, are we acting like our AFKs characters are still around? Should we logically be trying to find our PDragon captain in the wrecks of the ship, or anything useful that could be salvaged from the wrecks? Or is he going to realize he didn't miss much and being found unconscious and waking up in the wrecks would make a fine and easy way to reintegrate him into the game?
Until the player himself shows up, the ship's captain is counted as missing. The ship's crew is starting repairs and will provide basic maintenance for your machines.

If Harald shows up again, then he's free to pop out from the nearby forest ready for action.

Whats the XP gains, if any?

XP will be granted for completing main/secondary objectives, not for killing anything that threatens you.

Right now your job is to gather information on what hapened since communications with this colony world were lost, and report back to your contractors.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 20, 2013, 02:57:17 PM
Unless a fight is the objective, they are optional. Got it.
I might be interested into the Into the Dangerzone pilot feat. If you have no plans on finishing it anytime soon may I request the possibility of a feat retrain for it later?
I note that the one for the ship captain has no prerequisite feat, unlike the others.

Also, how does Born to Fight translates with a Moon Vanguard?
-Does the maneuver use outside the mecha stacks with the out-of-mecha usage of a favored maneuver?
-I imagine that the non-damage effect is nice when in nanoarmor and without an overdrive or amplifier.
-Would the jet-pack thing kick in automatically when the nanoarmor miniaturizes after an advanced overdrive?

About MV overdrives:
After a normal overdrive, the nanoarmor cannot get energy for an hour. After an advanced overdrive, it is out of function for 10 minutes.
Since acquiring advanced overdrive does not upgrade normal overdrives to an energy outtage of 10 minutes to match its own nanoarmor impairment duration, and since it is the same as a normal overdrive except for the elements stated, am I right to believe that after an advanced overdrive, the nanoarmor miniaturizes for 10 minutes, and is then unable to get energy by any means for 50 minutes?
And by any means, I think that includes getting energy back with an use of Overdrive.

@team: Might want to get tricks to skip/ignore fights easily for those kinds of missions since they are a waste of resources.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 03:05:48 PM
Unless a fight is the objective, they are optional. Got it.
I might be interested into the Into the Dangerzone pilot feat. If you have no plans on finishing it anytime soon may I request the possibility of a feat retrain for it later?
I note that the one for the ship captain has no prerequisite feat, unlike the others.

The fact it has no prereq. is intentional when I pointed out that, for a support feat, it requires something that is pretty much there to provide direct combat capability.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 20, 2013, 03:09:18 PM
The point isn't that it does not have the Born to Fight feat preq. It was that it does not have a feat preq at all. There could be an alternative to Born to Fight that is more in line with that kind of mecha/ship pilot.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 20, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
Those questions about the Moon Vanguard's Overdrive are actually really good questions....
They also made me think about something.

After using an Overdrive, it says the Nano Armor's energy is at zero for an hour, but can you still use the other benefits of the Nano Armor that do not use energy?
Does being stuck at zero energy simply mean that you cannot recover any maneuvers, but still use them because using maneuvers does not cost energy, and that you cannot fly, if you can fly, because that also costs energy?
Entering a stance costs energy, but if you were already in a stance can you remain in it after the Overdrive ends and you have zero energy?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 03:26:17 PM
The point isn't that it does not have the Born to Fight feat preq. It was that it does not have a feat preq at all. There could be an alternative to Born to Fight that is more in line with that kind of mecha/ship pilot.

Hm. Maybe n Ship Captain-specific feats to represent sufficiently upgraded infrastructure to withstand the improvements?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 20, 2013, 03:27:10 PM
@team: Might want to get tricks to skip/ignore fights easily for those kinds of missions since they are a waste of resources.
We only lost a ship.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 03:31:10 PM
@team: Might want to get tricks to skip/ignore fights easily for those kinds of missions since they are a waste of resources.
We only lost a ship.

Does the Yatagarasu not count or something?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 20, 2013, 03:36:25 PM
I think we lost another mecha, a few spells and maybe those throwing disks thingies. Didn't check for everyone but I tried to avoid spending daily charges of anything.
Ah, right. I spent a daily teleportation use and a shield other effect.

Quote
After using an Overdrive, it says the Nano Armor's energy is at zero for an hour, but can you still use the other benefits of the Nano Armor that do not use energy?
That was definitely the intent. Else it would be completely out of service like the Advanced Overdrive, which would reduce the in-usability to 10 minutes instead of specifying that different impairment.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 20, 2013, 03:39:06 PM
I suppose that makes sense.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 20, 2013, 03:42:14 PM
Unless a fight is the objective, they are optional. Got it.
I might be interested into the Into the Dangerzone pilot feat. If you have no plans on finishing it anytime soon may I request the possibility of a feat retrain for it later?
Yes, feat retraining will be possible later over downtime.

I note that the one for the ship captain has no prerequisite feat, unlike the others.
Following the recent discussion, added in Veteran Mechanics as a prerequisite, representing the need of having highly skilled engineers to take care of the fancy systems.

Also, how does Born to Fight translates with a Moon Vanguard?
-Does the maneuver use outside the mecha stacks with the out-of-mecha usage of a favored maneuver?
-I imagine that the non-damage effect is nice when in nanoarmor and without an overdrive or amplifier.
-Would the jet-pack thing kick in automatically when the nanoarmor miniaturizes after an advanced overdrive?
-Yes.
-Yes.
-Hmm, I'll say yes to that as well.

About MV overdrives:
After a normal overdrive, the nanoarmor cannot get energy for an hour. After an advanced overdrive, it is out of function for 10 minutes.
Since acquiring advanced overdrive does not upgrade normal overdrives to an energy outtage of 10 minutes to match its own nanoarmor impairment duration, and since it is the same as a normal overdrive except for the elements stated, am I right to believe that after an advanced overdrive, the nanoarmor miniaturizes for 10 minutes, and is then unable to get energy by any means for 50 minutes?
And by any means, I think that includes getting energy back with an use of Overdrive.
Correct, cannot use it at all for 10 minutes, then still out of energy for 50 minutes, and you cannot use another Overdrive to recover from an overdrive.

@team: Might want to get tricks to skip/ignore fights easily for those kinds of missions since they are a waste of resources.
Well, you still get meseta and random following an extremely complex logharitm item drops. :p

Those questions about the Moon Vanguard's Overdrive are actually really good questions....
They also made me think about something.

After using an Overdrive, it says the Nano Armor's energy is at zero for an hour, but can you still use the other benefits of the Nano Armor that do not use energy?
Yes.

Does being stuck at zero energy simply mean that you cannot recover any maneuvers, but still use them because using maneuvers does not cost energy, and that you cannot fly, if you can fly, because that also costs energy?
Only maneuvers that you hadn't expended yet. And yes no flight.

Entering a stance costs energy, but if you were already in a stance can you remain in it after the Overdrive ends and you have zero energy?
Yes, since maintaining the stance doesn't cost energy.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 05:36:57 PM
Reconfiguration complete.  :cool
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 20, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
Keep your eyes peeled for red containers.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 07:46:06 PM
Keep your eyes peeled for red containers.

Red containers? :huh

I was going to be looking out for wooden boxes with blue glows around the edges. Well, brown, not exactly wood.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 20, 2013, 09:32:16 PM
It's ok if you don't get it.  ;)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 20, 2013, 09:35:49 PM
It's ok if you don't get it.  ;)

I don't think we generally have to worry about boxes moving.

I KNOW TOO MANY RED THINGS AND I LATCHED ONTO ORKS AND CHAR. D:
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 21, 2013, 05:23:58 AM
If I remember correctly red boxes are rare drops. Like, super rare drops. Or more like, triple jump for joy rare drops because it is probably what you've been farming for for the past 3 hours.
.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 21, 2013, 08:27:42 AM
... oh, small floaty red drops rather than large smashable containers.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 21, 2013, 10:53:27 AM
Does the Yatagarasu not count or something?
She is alive and her Mech will repair it's self for free?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 21, 2013, 11:05:01 AM
Does the Yatagarasu not count or something?
She is alive and her Mech will repair it's self for free?

Why would it do that? Nanomachines don't function if it's destroyed. Removed the things anyway in favour of just having more health to start with.

Also, I meant the enemy mech was inside the building... but eh, might be one outside, I can't remember where everything was. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 21, 2013, 05:05:28 PM
Also, I meant the enemy mech was inside the building... but eh, might be one outside, I can't remember where everything was. :lmao
The concealed robots pointing their guns at you are not mechs. ;)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 21, 2013, 05:11:49 PM
Also, I meant the enemy mech was inside the building... but eh, might be one outside, I can't remember where everything was. :lmao
The concealed robots pointing their guns at you are not mechs. ;)

Is this a terminology quibble you started or telling me that I blew up a giant robot that isn't a giant robot? :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 24, 2013, 11:53:41 AM
Also, I meant the enemy mech was inside the building... but eh, might be one outside, I can't remember where everything was. :lmao
The concealed robots pointing their guns at you are not mechs. ;)
Is this a terminology quibble you started or telling me that I blew up a giant robot that isn't a giant robot? :P
Neither. It's a joke on failing a Spot check, you're about to be ambushed by some heavily armed sentries that are here either to obtain the data that was being deleted by a settler or they already obtained and were deleting it them selves and they were smart enough to leave a group behind to guard it when we showed up.

Or you know, they are in a full retreat the and DM is taking it easy on you. *shrugs*
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 24, 2013, 11:58:51 AM
Well, at least you all know where to find my corpse. :D

... and maneuver rearrangement has somewhat improved my survivability against massed enemies.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Concerned Ninja Citizen on July 27, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
I should really have Aden get out of his mecha and follow you. He seriously needs to participate in a battle where he his summoned minions can actually contribute some friggin offense.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 28, 2013, 11:56:03 AM
Question. Is the Arcane Mech like a Familiar and benefiting from a copy of a Spell cast on our selves or is it separate leading to Enlarge Person being a fun way to commit suicide?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 28, 2013, 12:26:57 PM
You can't get larger than the space allows. Otherwise one could cast Shrink Item on someone's helmet to crush his skull.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 28, 2013, 01:03:45 PM
Besides, the mecha don't work that way. Think of them as a piece of equipment.

That you pilot.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 28, 2013, 02:43:09 PM
You can't get larger than the space allows. Otherwise one could cast Shrink Item on someone's helmet to crush his skull.
Except tin foil isn't exactly deadly.

Besides, the mecha don't work that way. Think of them as a piece of equipment.

That you pilot.
That'd be a reasonable third option.

Say I have Superior Resistance running (i do), if I initially cast it inside my mech who obtained the Bonus?
Familiar: We both did, both me and my Mech's Save bonus is adjusted and tracked separately.
Mech is Equipment: Mech gains the +6 Resistance Bonus to Saves only when I'm "wearing" it.
Mech is a separate entity: The Mech benefits from Superior Resistance via channeling, not me. And if it is treated as a separate creature could I use Polymorph on the Mech to turn it into a Dragon and then Dimensional Door out of it thereby allowing us both to breath atomic death on my enemies? My Mech is sentient and apparently has it's own set of actions (supporting upgrade), in fact it even has a list of Spells Known (arcane pilot). What's preventing it from spending it's own Move/Standard Actions to fly around killing stuff or casting off Scrolls while I'm busy handling Hell's Sun or my Full-Round+Swift Action Breath?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 28, 2013, 04:42:56 PM
I can't speak with 100% certainty because this is Oslecamo's rule set. But I THINK you both benefit from the effect, even after you leave your mecha.

However, that doesn't happen when you cast a spell outside the Mecha.

There is, in theory, nothing preventing your Mecha from taking its own set of actions, but sentient Mecha cannot pilot themselves except insofar as seeking out and/or protecting its own pilot.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 28, 2013, 04:48:58 PM
Take all three of the Sentient upgrades and its intelligence is basically equal to yours.

It seems to be the build-an-Evangelion option.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 29, 2013, 09:06:47 PM
Too sleepy to answer questions now.

But to make sure, is the party fine with waiting several minutes to go trough the salvaged data logs in the room where Amaterasu is in search of useful information?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 29, 2013, 09:10:56 PM
Given that I am in said room with said data logs, yes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 29, 2013, 09:11:19 PM
Do we even have a reason not to?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 30, 2013, 12:13:44 AM
I certainly have nothing else to do but worry~
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 30, 2013, 03:39:32 AM
I wouldn't be fine with that. I'd rather have a group starting the search for survivors asap. I recall seeing one that didn't have much hp and that might be in need of help.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 30, 2013, 07:55:05 AM
Anyone aside from the saint that wants to go on a rescue mission for the people that just ambushed us?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 30, 2013, 08:33:37 AM
It's not as if we need everybody just waiting on the files. We could split up.

Best to propose it in-character, though.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 30, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
I didn't meant those mecha survivors that probably do not exist. I meant survivors among the colonists that we are kinda supposed to find to get more leads. I saw a bunch in the dome and one didn't seem to have much hp.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 30, 2013, 12:20:06 PM
Well, may as well bring that one up IC.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 30, 2013, 12:46:24 PM
You mean I didn't?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 30, 2013, 12:58:53 PM
Nothing about what you said really forbids waiting a few minutes to gather information. :p

Also, I just had an idea. Someone is going to try and kill me for it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 30, 2013, 02:36:08 PM
Hmm... right, so: any objections to trying to blow a hole in the dome rather than go in through an actual entrance? Min-Yung is required for aiming so that all the living stuff doesn't risk getting speared with fiery death. :p

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 30, 2013, 04:27:26 PM
Probably not the best idea. It might scare people away and/or make things worse.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 30, 2013, 04:30:40 PM
How safe do you reckon it is to actually use the entrance, though?

I mean, the absolute limit of what I can break through, if push comes to shove, would be a mile-long tunnel just by ploughing through internal walls at high speed. Really depends how strong they are. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 30, 2013, 04:32:41 PM
Too sleepy to answer questions now.

But to make sure, is the party fine with waiting several minutes to go trough the salvaged data logs in the room where Amaterasu is in search of useful information?

Wait. How big are those files and how high is Amaterasu's processing speed?

I'm pretty sure we have CASTs and one of them can probably scan things in a matter of seconds.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 30, 2013, 07:07:58 PM
Ok, here goes. Let me know if I miss something.

Question. Is the Arcane Mech like a Familiar and benefiting from a copy of a Spell cast on our selves or is it separate leading to Enlarge Person being a fun way to commit suicide?

Yes, but only while you're piloting it, and size-changing effects in particular don't work on mechas besides the super robot growth/miniaturize upgrades.

You can't get larger than the space allows. Otherwise one could cast Shrink Item on someone's helmet to crush his skull.
Except tin foil isn't exactly deadly.

And if it is treated as a separate creature could I use Polymorph on the Mech to turn it into a Dragon and then Dimensional Door out of it thereby allowing us both to breath atomic death on my enemies?
If you DDed, the polymorph would end. Besides polymorph doesn't really work with Nuclear Dragon because Nuclear Dragons don't have an official statblock with ability scores and stuff.

My Mech is sentient and apparently has it's own set of actions (supporting upgrade), in fact it even has a list of Spells Known (arcane pilot). What's preventing it from spending it's own Move/Standard Actions to fly around killing stuff or casting off Scrolls while I'm busy handling Hell's Sun or my Full-Round+Swift Action Breath?
While you're outside your mecha, you don't count as a mecha yourself, thus severly diminishing your own combat power against mecha enemies. And obviously you're no longer benefiting from your mecha defensive properties (sentient only works when you're outside of it, except for Support that is limited to boosting your stuff).

Take all three of the Sentient upgrades and its intelligence is basically equal to yours.

It seems to be the build-an-Evangelion option.
Pretty much yes. :p

How safe do you reckon it is to actually use the entrance, though?

I mean, the absolute limit of what I can break through, if push comes to shove, would be a mile-long tunnel just by ploughing through internal walls at high speed. Really depends how strong they are. :lmao

How safe do you reckon it is to actually use the entrance, though?

I mean, the absolute limit of what I can break through, if push comes to shove, would be a mile-long tunnel just by ploughing through internal walls at high speed. Really depends how strong they are. :lmao
It's common knowledge that this kind of facility has volatile energy systems inside. Meaning that altough you theoretically can just blast a hole open, it would also mean an extremely high chance you set off a chain reaction reducing everything and everybody inside to cinders and slag, including survivors/loot/data.

Too sleepy to answer questions now.

But to make sure, is the party fine with waiting several minutes to go trough the salvaged data logs in the room where Amaterasu is in search of useful information?

Wait. How big are those files and how high is Amaterasu's processing speed?

I'm pretty sure we have CASTs and one of them can probably scan things in a matter of seconds.
It's the records of months of management of various supplies being checked in and out mixed with personal comments from the operators, broadcasted news to the colony and other odd bits and ends. It's gonna take some minutes even for any advanced AI among your groups.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 30, 2013, 07:15:56 PM
Well, at least I have a plan for our exit, in the event there are likely enemies inside still.

And there is absolutely nothing to say there that Ground Melt couldn't be used to cut open a section of the exterior, unless they had no common sense in building this place.

Also, I just realised something incredibly stupid happened at the beginning of the last battle: I forgot that I have Uncanny Dodge.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on July 30, 2013, 07:24:28 PM
Ok, here goes. Let me know if I miss something.

Question. Is the Arcane Mech like a Familiar and benefiting from a copy of a Spell cast on our selves or is it separate leading to Enlarge Person being a fun way to commit suicide?

Yes, but only while you're piloting it, and size-changing effects in particular don't work on mechas besides the super robot growth/miniaturize upgrades.

You can't get larger than the space allows. Otherwise one could cast Shrink Item on someone's helmet to crush his skull.
Except tin foil isn't exactly deadly.

And if it is treated as a separate creature could I use Polymorph on the Mech to turn it into a Dragon and then Dimensional Door out of it thereby allowing us both to breath atomic death on my enemies?
If you DDed, the polymorph would end. Besides polymorph doesn't really work with Nuclear Dragon because Nuclear Dragons don't have an official statblock with ability scores and stuff.

My Mech is sentient and apparently has it's own set of actions (supporting upgrade), in fact it even has a list of Spells Known (arcane pilot). What's preventing it from spending it's own Move/Standard Actions to fly around killing stuff or casting off Scrolls while I'm busy handling Hell's Sun or my Full-Round+Swift Action Breath?
While you're outside your mecha, you don't count as a mecha yourself, thus severly diminishing your own combat power against mecha enemies. And obviously you're no longer benefiting from your mecha defensive properties (sentient only works when you're outside of it, except for Support that is limited to boosting your stuff).

Take all three of the Sentient upgrades and its intelligence is basically equal to yours.

It seems to be the build-an-Evangelion option.
Pretty much yes. :p

How safe do you reckon it is to actually use the entrance, though?

I mean, the absolute limit of what I can break through, if push comes to shove, would be a mile-long tunnel just by ploughing through internal walls at high speed. Really depends how strong they are. :lmao

How safe do you reckon it is to actually use the entrance, though?

I mean, the absolute limit of what I can break through, if push comes to shove, would be a mile-long tunnel just by ploughing through internal walls at high speed. Really depends how strong they are. :lmao
It's common knowledge that this kind of facility has volatile energy systems inside. Meaning that altough you theoretically can just blast a hole open, it would also mean an extremely high chance you set off a chain reaction reducing everything and everybody inside to cinders and slag, including survivors/loot/data.

Too sleepy to answer questions now.

But to make sure, is the party fine with waiting several minutes to go trough the salvaged data logs in the room where Amaterasu is in search of useful information?

Wait. How big are those files and how high is Amaterasu's processing speed?

I'm pretty sure we have CASTs and one of them can probably scan things in a matter of seconds.
It's the records of months of management of various supplies being checked in and out mixed with personal comments from the operators, broadcasted news to the colony and other odd bits and ends. It's gonna take some minutes even for any advanced AI among your groups.

Lousy Segindows 8.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 30, 2013, 10:44:44 PM
Your answers simply breed more questions. :(

And if it is treated as a separate creature could I use Polymorph on the Mech to turn it into a Dragon and then Dimensional Door out of it thereby allowing us both to breath atomic death on my enemies?
If you DDed, the polymorph would end. Besides polymorph doesn't really work with Nuclear Dragon because Nuclear Dragons don't have an official statblock with ability scores and stuff.
Poly has a listed duration, it wouldn't end because of DDoor. It's either ending because your real answer is all Spells end when you exit, which begs questions/abuse of exiting your Mech to end crippling Spells like Dominate Monster or Slow. Or because you are saying when you exit your Mech then your Mech is no longer a legal target for Polymorph (affects living creatures). In which case Spells that would still affect Objects is still open game. Meaning all we've really done is reword my question. I realize being able to affect my Mech seperatly lets me abuse the crap out of it, so can we just go with Mechs are Equipment? While inside they benefit from any buff you have running and when you exit you take them with you. Both the positives and the negatives.

Then you present a new rule, changing the Size of your Mech cannot be done. And yet, you didn't mention this in the Polymorph example that technically does that as a side effect of changing into another Creature. So I fathom only direct effects like Divine Might, Shrink Item, and Enlarge Person bestow their specific bonuses but not Size changes or Size related bonuses. Correct?

My Mech is sentient and apparently has it's own set of actions (supporting upgrade), in fact it even has a list of Spells Known (arcane pilot). What's preventing it from spending it's own Move/Standard Actions to fly around killing stuff or casting off Scrolls while I'm busy handling Hell's Sun or my Full-Round+Swift Action Breath?
While you're outside your mecha, you don't count as a mecha yourself, thus severly diminishing your own combat power against mecha enemies. And obviously you're no longer benefiting from your mecha defensive properties (sentient only works when you're outside of it, except for Support that is limited to boosting your stuff).
That says nothing about if my Mech has it's own set of actions nor of the loophole that if my area effect is large enough to encompass a Mech it bypass the Mortal-to-Mech immunity rule. Which my 95ft Cone Shaped Breath Weapon can.

So again, right back where we started :(
How about, while being Piloted my Mech cannot take any action of it's own. This will nerf dual abuse. Supporting is rewritten to simply provide it's benefit 24/7 rather than trying to say it's using the one and only action the Mech has every single turn. Same end result on Supporting, just no inherent suggestion on a Mech having it's own actions. When you are NOT in your Mech, assuming it is Sentient, it can now use it's full set of Actions. Of course it cannot benefit from Supporting since that trait requires a Pilot. Since an Arcane Mech has it's own list of Spell's Known it can use Scrolls and such (or even UMD as needed). Just be mindful of the Mortal-To-Mech rules when attempting this dual abuse.

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 30, 2013, 11:15:50 PM
Just in case it might be relevant, I have a maneuver that can open temporary holes into walls.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on July 30, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
There already exists a way to open temporary holes in walls that anybody has access to.
They're known as doors  :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on July 31, 2013, 12:06:42 AM
Good one! A few shortcuts might be handy though.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 31, 2013, 07:05:44 AM
I was also thinking more 'cut a hole in the wall and pull a chunk of it out'. Not temporary,  but not as destructive as just making a hole in the building. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on July 31, 2013, 06:56:17 PM
Your answers simply breed more questions. :(
What doesn't when you start bringing in polyrmoph? :psyduck

And if it is treated as a separate creature could I use Polymorph on the Mech to turn it into a Dragon and then Dimensional Door out of it thereby allowing us both to breath atomic death on my enemies?
If you DDed, the polymorph would end. Besides polymorph doesn't really work with Nuclear Dragon because Nuclear Dragons don't have an official statblock with ability scores and stuff.
Poly has a listed duration, it wouldn't end because of DDoor. It's either ending because your real answer is all Spells end when you exit, which begs questions/abuse of exiting your Mech to end crippling Spells like Dominate Monster or Slow. Or because you are saying when you exit your Mech then your Mech is no longer a legal target for Polymorph (affects living creatures). In which case Spells that would still affect Objects is still open game. Meaning all we've really done is reword my question. I realize being able to affect my Mech seperatly lets me abuse the crap out of it, so can we just go with Mechs are Equipment? While inside they benefit from any buff you have running and when you exit you take them with you. Both the positives and the negatives.
That's how it already worked. Except your mecha won't change size even if you do.

Then you present a new rule, changing the Size of your Mech cannot be done. And yet, you didn't mention this in the Polymorph example that technically does that as a side effect of changing into another Creature. So I fathom only direct effects like Divine Might, Shrink Item, and Enlarge Person bestow their specific bonuses but not Size changes or Size related bonuses. Correct?
Yes.

My Mech is sentient and apparently has it's own set of actions (supporting upgrade), in fact it even has a list of Spells Known (arcane pilot). What's preventing it from spending it's own Move/Standard Actions to fly around killing stuff or casting off Scrolls while I'm busy handling Hell's Sun or my Full-Round+Swift Action Breath?
While you're outside your mecha, you don't count as a mecha yourself, thus severly diminishing your own combat power against mecha enemies. And obviously you're no longer benefiting from your mecha defensive properties (sentient only works when you're outside of it, except for Support that is limited to boosting your stuff).
That says nothing about if my Mech has it's own set of actions nor of the loophole that if my area effect is large enough to encompass a Mech it bypass the Mortal-to-Mech immunity rule. Which my 95ft Cone Shaped Breath Weapon can.
True enough. But your 95 ft cone gets reduced to a 15 mu cone while you're outside your mecha, which wouldn't actually be enough for something as Amaratus's gargantuan machine (or to cover multiple enemies). And you'll also moving in slow motion in the battlefield, making it even harder to make that breath hit.

How about, while being Piloted my Mech cannot take any action of it's own. This will nerf dual abuse. Supporting is rewritten to simply provide it's benefit 24/7 rather than trying to say it's using the one and only action the Mech has every single turn. Same end result on Supporting, just no inherent suggestion on a Mech having it's own actions. When you are NOT in your Mech, assuming it is Sentient, it can now use it's full set of Actions. Of course it cannot benefit from Supporting since that trait requires a Pilot. Since an Arcane Mech has it's own list of Spell's Known it can use Scrolls and such (or even UMD as needed). Just be mindful of the Mortal-To-Mech rules when attempting this dual abuse.
Again, that's basically how it works already. Your mecha can only use the support option when you're inside.

I was also thinking more 'cut a hole in the wall and pull a chunk of it out'. Not temporary,  but not as destructive as just making a hole in the building. :lmao
That would work better yes, altough it'll also mean you'll have to repeat it multiple times to go trough multiple rooms/corridors.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on July 31, 2013, 07:06:30 PM
I was also thinking more 'cut a hole in the wall and pull a chunk of it out'. Not temporary,  but not as destructive as just making a hole in the building. :lmao
That would work better yes, altough it'll also mean you'll have to repeat it multiple times to go trough multiple rooms/corridors.

I was thinking more 'get in through the dome and avoid the entrance' for this one than 'dig a hole to wherever there may be life', though it's always an option.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 01, 2013, 01:30:15 AM
Might as well make a direct path to our objectives. No XP for doing all the little things in-between and loot might be easier to get once the main tasks are done with.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on August 01, 2013, 01:44:58 AM
What can I say? The front door is always a good option~
If you're not hitting every trap on the way, you're not hitting every trap on the way!  :o

Edit: It feels like our method of entering the tower was just chosen?  :eh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on August 01, 2013, 09:39:57 AM
Sheesh.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on August 01, 2013, 09:51:08 AM
Yes, because my concern is clearly that we run into traps. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on August 01, 2013, 11:33:07 AM
An ambush is a type of trap  :rolleyes

Um, hah. Wouldn't that have been just great if it had gone a bit more comedic and Amaterasu had rocketed by too far too fast and smashed a hole in the tower wall accidentally?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on August 01, 2013, 07:11:48 PM
Ok guys, August has started, which means chances are that I'll soon be going to an area where net connection is unreliable at best.

I'll try to keep the updating rythm, but I can't promise anything. Come September things should go smoother when I have solid online once more.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on August 01, 2013, 07:13:39 PM
... I'm glad that I only have four Warblade maneuvers.

All of them are readied except Ground Melt, because I find that one slightly less likely to get used. :lmao

Lesse, my presence will probably be disturbed mid-september, but fine aside from that.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on August 12, 2013, 12:05:20 PM
Assuming here that you moved right into the Central Dome after a short dicussion and are leaving the terminal data analyzis for later.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 17, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
Sorry, I forgot the campaign got updated.

I meant to ask if Mao would get the creature types as part of the readings. To avoid losing more time I went with 'lifeforms' even though they may not be quite alive and so I also didn't make assumptions such as the possibility of the pairs being a normal creature with some sort of pet/mag/companion.

Mao would keep track of things inside the building through her cohort's head in the mecha. Pretty much for the purpose of getting MU scaled listen checks inside.


I reduced the listen check penalty ignoring effect of the Divine Spirit Trance stance to 20 ft/IL from 60 ft/IL and tempted to reduce it 10 ft/IL. or just halve the distance penalties.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on August 21, 2013, 05:01:23 PM
Well good to see you noticed how your first level stance turned hermits into super mobile penetrator radars. :p

On other note, current IC situation seems to be two votes for going downward with sugestions of spliting up. But since nobody sugested a second direction to split up, I'll make the party move downward as soon as I have time to write the update.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 21, 2013, 09:04:59 PM
Mao actually suggested that the rest split up to meet the pair at ground level.
If they all tag along, though, she'll make passwalls there instead of solo-phasing through the ground so everyone can stay together.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on August 21, 2013, 09:28:35 PM
I imagine splitting up would involve going, well, up for half of us.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on August 22, 2013, 06:33:54 PM
Mao actually suggested that the rest split up to meet the pair at ground level.
If they all tag along, though, she'll make passwalls there instead of solo-phasing through the ground so everyone can stay together.

Mao will quickly realize the walls of the Central Dome extend to the ethereal plane (standard safety measure against incorporeal undeads, aliens from the astral plane and others). Hermit super-passwall seems to work fine tough.

Anyway, I should update tommorrow and make Mao going down and everybody else go up if that's ok.

Will Amaterasu   cut a path trough the ceilings/floors, or find their way trough the passages?

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on August 22, 2013, 06:39:26 PM
Let's see: will cutting a path through the walls risk having everything explode? And can I even deal enough damage without Valour to make it worth it?

'Cutting a path' = Shooting Sun for as long as I can maintain it, followed by Uncontainable Dive to smash a path through.

If things AREN'T liable to go boom, that would probably be the most likely response, just to cut down on time taken by making a direct path.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on August 22, 2013, 08:11:29 PM
Aaah....so much for getting lost in the hallways.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 23, 2013, 02:54:14 AM
Yeahee lots of updates. Will catch up soon.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 23, 2013, 03:16:15 AM
If you do cut through stuff... just be careful not to ram into something important. Like a tank of chemical gases, generators and other thingies we'd rather keep intact.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on August 23, 2013, 08:06:30 AM
It's not as if I can't stop. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 23, 2013, 10:57:42 AM
Can you?  :eh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 23, 2013, 04:01:03 PM
The rest of the party can probably go for the pair at ground level while Mao and Ama are off doing their thing.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on August 30, 2013, 05:09:27 PM
Kuroimaken: You are using any ability to bypass the walls? Otherwise give me an Int check to see how quickly you can clear the corridor maze.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on August 30, 2013, 07:04:41 PM
No special abilities, so the check is up.

Couldn't Mao have given us a map, though?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 30, 2013, 07:06:33 PM
Mao can hear through walls. It doesn't grant her x-ray vision.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on August 30, 2013, 07:25:37 PM
But we did get access to local systems, right? You'd think they'd include a map of the facility, assuming it wasn't deleted.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 30, 2013, 07:47:11 PM
That would be Baha.
I wouldn't assume that the terminal is equipped with a printer or some way to copy the file for external use. You guys are also on foot so unless you got some kind of iPad or paper/pen to copy it unto it wouldn't be too useful.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on August 30, 2013, 07:59:19 PM
 :eh

Are you kidding me? We're in PHANTASY STAR verse. We've got subspace storage, you think we'd be able to get some kinda PDA.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on August 30, 2013, 08:03:40 PM
That's what I'm saying...
Did you buy one? Those communication devices be bought weren't free.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on August 31, 2013, 02:32:53 PM
Yeah, 50 meseta for a basic one, you can buy it retroactively.

Kuroimaken: Map files seem to be corrupted but recovereable with a bit lot of work. Give me a Knowledge (Arcana) check to see how fast how you can repair them.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on August 31, 2013, 03:46:04 PM
There ya go.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 05, 2013, 05:53:23 PM
Hugh, this last week was nonstop packing up to return home and organizing things for the new semester start, no time to update anything at all. Now I finally managed to stablize things somewhat, but I'm dead tired and really need a proper night sleep. Tommorrow should finally be able to advance this campaign, and from there the rest of my online D&D stuff, sorry about the disapearance.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 05, 2013, 07:29:30 PM
No problem and looking forward.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 06, 2013, 09:21:00 PM
Yay 4-way party splits...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 06, 2013, 11:19:44 PM
On the plus side, it helps with the whole fast-paced thing.
If we were all together, doing all that we have done in 2 updates would have easily taken us at least another month.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on September 07, 2013, 02:51:29 AM
Assume Hugo spoke to the guys and gals over comm.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 15, 2013, 02:15:30 AM
I gotta say that I find amusing that one of the main reasons I took Erase History as a Gifted for War maneuver was to be able to undo my "puzzle" mistakes and be at ease to do trial and error resolutions but totally forgot to use it after the alarm went out. I had even planned to use it if something went wrong. :rolleyes

Oh well. Now let's hope woman+kid aren't horrible abominations begging for weapons to use against me. See if I totally didn't just freed the final boss.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 15, 2013, 07:39:58 AM
Hmm, does Zeal only give me a standard + swift in the surprise round, or would I get the full round to attack?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 15, 2013, 10:04:26 AM
Since it's still a suprise round, just a standard+swift.

Anomander: Shooting Star, Cut Trough the Night demands you to know at least 5 Ace Pilot maneuvers.  Yoshiko Kayumi only seems to have three from Eternal Royal.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 15, 2013, 12:33:42 PM
She got Hit and Run from Real Pilot, Careful Aim, Hail of Fire, Blinding Hit and Gun Fight from Eternal Royal, so that makes 5.

Stances are maneuvers too. You even allow items granting maneuvers to grant stances.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 15, 2013, 01:31:29 PM
You convinced me otherwise in a discussion some months ago, remember?

Otherwise, let me go back and edit the pilot feats to demand even more maneuvers.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 15, 2013, 02:42:45 PM
You mean I tried to, but ultimately failed.
And that was on whether or not those items can grant stances. Stances qualifying for requirements, especially the maneuver number requirements of the original maneuvers, has never been an issue.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 15, 2013, 02:50:14 PM
Ah, whatever, I'm in a good mood today, go ahead with it. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 15, 2013, 03:11:43 PM
Alright cool.
If you think the maneuver requirements for those feats should be higher I don't mind I'll just adjust to meet it.
As long as the Real Pilot can fill the requirements at level 6 I don't think it matters much.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 16, 2013, 12:06:39 AM
How wide/tall are these hallways again?...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 16, 2013, 07:58:40 AM
20 feet wide/tall, altough there's several 10 feet tall/tall doors connecting diferent rooms and hallways.

Alright cool.
If you think the maneuver requirements for those feats should be higher I don't mind I'll just adjust to meet it.
As long as the Real Pilot can fill the requirements at level 6 I don't think it matters much.

Ok, increased slightly the number of maneuvers needed to 6.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 19, 2013, 03:58:54 AM
Gotta feel like I'm doing something else I forget that I didn't do anything to prepare when I get jumped and I go splat..... ~.~
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 19, 2013, 04:14:16 AM
So, hopefully Amaterasu will have an actually decent appearance... tomorrow? Seems like it'll be tomorrow. :lmao

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 22, 2013, 08:12:33 PM
Is it normal it takes so long to get through?
The location was evaluated to be 70ft deep, and her passwalls are 30ft deep each.
Was there some kind of distortion of her senses that made distances appear closer than they truly were?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 22, 2013, 08:14:29 PM
No, it's just that each passwall only gets you trough one wall (or in this case, ceiling).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 22, 2013, 08:16:44 PM
Oh I see. So it isn't one big mass of matter between the floor level and that underground room. Makes sense now.
If there is a floor that appears relatively safe she could let the two civilians there and teleport herself to her allies and go pick them up later.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 22, 2013, 08:18:19 PM
Deciding that a character's generally good: possibly suicide. :lmao

... anyway, the picture I mentioned? I... think it should be done by Friday at the latest. And what there is so far* is amazing. ^_^

*Shading. Shading's what's left.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 26, 2013, 06:50:24 AM
Um OH DEAR GOD
I just had to go reread this thread to remember the answers to many very important questions I had asked before.

And thus I now realize that because I used an Overdrive in the previous battle, and I know it hasn't been an hour since, that my Nanoarmor is stuck at zero energy for a long time still. I also couldn't have changed stances as it costs energy so that changes my last post's actions. I can't even swing my swords because IT COSTS ME ENERGY TO ATTACK  :lmao

Wow I did not even realize how debilitating Overdrive can be when you're running MV in Super Robot mode. I'm no better than a civilian for the next 50-55 minutes.....Edit: Oh, well, meh, I guess not technically cause I can just sit in my Nanoarmor and plug the hallway....terrible idea now.
Sure my MV maneuvers don't use energy but the ones involving attacks (all of them) can't be used anyways because my swords use energy!  :banghead Ah, no, yes, well, I guess I could still have changed my stance then. Once per five minutes >.>

TIME TO TANK RUN ~.~

(Edited my post's actions a bit nonetheless)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 26, 2013, 07:21:29 AM
You mean you didn't pick any back-up weapons that don't cost energy to use? :psyduck

You still have pilot feats and quite a lot of maneuvers, even if each is just 1/5 minutes, so you're not exactly whitout choices. The Astelion has  a machine cannon and missiles by default, neither of which cost energy. Sure you're more focused on melee, but with your high Dex you should still be quite more dangerous than a civilian at shooting stuff.

Well, I guess it's something you should take in mind when turning your youkai-forged blades into main weapons that demand energy to use. :p

(also will update this over Friday or Saturday)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 26, 2013, 07:39:38 AM
Of course I didn't pick any back-up weapons, that costs me valuable upgrade points! (assumedly. the Extra upgrade, right?)
All I got are the small handful of Burning Justice maneuvers cause all my AT ones require attacking with my youkai swords
OH, nevermind. I totally understand that feat now I guess I do have a lot of maneuvers can still use, technically. Wow I am just being so bad right now  :lol

Actually...looking at the Super Robot page now...
Quote
Weapons: All super robots have two in-built melee weapons dealing 1d6+Str mod damage each. Those are usually reinforced fists but could as well be claws, rectratable blades or whatever the player likes more.
I didn't know I could have more than one weapon without spending points on the Extra upgrade...So I guess I do have something.
If I purchase some Extra weapons next level, can I snag a backup pair of youkai blades?  :rolleyes
I'll have to be more careful next time.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 26, 2013, 09:22:46 AM
Unfortunate, that.

... Huh, I can emulate Love, however useful that is in this scenario... @_@

In other news, barring extreme circumstances, I'll be able to link the full picture tonight. The wings turned out more complicated than expected. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 26, 2013, 09:32:20 AM
... Huh, I can emulate Love, however useful that is in this scenario... @_@

Coinkidinky-like, I can emulate Devotion  ;)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 26, 2013, 09:39:53 AM
Quote
... Huh, I can emulate Love, however useful that is in this scenario... @_@
You mean Rivalry?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 26, 2013, 09:45:34 AM
Oh well Rivalry is far less fun...

Yanno, looking at it, Devotion is an amazing feat. x3 of it and you get a 1/day free Res on your target. Even just x1 is netting a nice chunk of DR and resistances. Wow, actually, I could manage 40 DR/- between that and Coolness. Even having 1/2 that ignored is still a huge chunk off of damage. That is really tanky...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 26, 2013, 12:06:00 PM
... I am still confused (obviously) why Super Pilots get rivalry when there generally aren't sufficient super robots around to actually have a rival. It's... odd (also, Love the Spirit is Super Pilot). @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 26, 2013, 01:34:48 PM
Maybe because real robots need some luv too.  ;)

Honestly there is no real hardline here. The ref material I've seen seem to point out that the protagonist pilots got all the relationship feats by default so mecha pilots do not really have a stronger tendencies toward one emotion than another.

Which means either the tactical feats grant one relationship in the lot or they grant any one relationship (for the convenience of fitting the emotions of the pilot with the actual emotions he may have for his allies).
However, a bunch of feats are already given as options so giving even more may be too much.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 26, 2013, 07:17:48 PM
So, uh, Amaterasu's appearance! (http://honeydrive.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Amaterasu-Reen-403159497)

Now, did I use Zeal to kill the scientist or not? :O
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 27, 2013, 03:11:28 AM
Yeah those wings are pretty dang spectacular :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 27, 2013, 06:08:56 AM
And they'd move! :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 27, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
Actually...looking at the Super Robot page now...
Quote
Weapons: All super robots have two in-built melee weapons dealing 1d6+Str mod damage each. Those are usually reinforced fists but could as well be claws, rectratable blades or whatever the player likes more.
I didn't know I could have more than one weapon without spending points on the Extra upgrade...So I guess I do have something.
Unfortenately, those two free in-built weapons are only for "pure" super robots. A multiclass super robot/real robot still uses a real robot's stats as base, not the super robot's. Multiclass ship captain/super robot do get the pair of free in-built weapons, but that's specified in their entry.

Of course if everybody else thinks multiclass RR/SR should get the two free in-built weapons on top of the usual RR in-built weapons, I can go change that.

If I purchase some Extra weapons next level, can I snag a backup pair of youkai blades?  :rolleyes
I'll have to be more careful next time.
You can only ever be atunned to a single pair of youkai-forged blades.

... I am still confused (obviously) why Super Pilots get rivalry when there generally aren't sufficient super robots around to actually have a rival. It's... odd (also, Love the Spirit is Super Pilot). @_@

A detail people seem to be missing with the relationship feats-You can pick any one outside your machine to be the target of your affection, even if they're trying to kill you. And super pilots are always seeking to show off to the new evil monster/robot of the week. :p

So, uh, Amaterasu's appearance! (http://honeydrive.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Amaterasu-Reen-403159497)

Now, did I use Zeal to kill the scientist or not? :O
Yes. He clearly had been experimenting on himself to don't go down with your first blow.

Also I believe it's a good sign when the players go around commissioning awesome pictures for their characters. :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 27, 2013, 11:35:58 AM
Unfortenately, those two free in-built weapons are only for "pure" super robots. A multiclass super robot/real robot still uses a real robot's stats as base, not the super robot's. Multiclass ship captain/super robot do get the pair of free in-built weapons, but that's specified in their entry.

Of course if everybody else thinks multiclass RR/SR should get the two free in-built weapons on top of the usual RR in-built weapons, I can go change that.

But this is in regards to my Super Robot emulating Nanoarmor, not my Real Robot Astelion sitting outside somewhere.  :huh
Plus I don't have legit Super Pilot levels so my Real Robot wasn't being modified by anything Super Robot related anyways.
Remember? I'm Real Pilot/Moon Vanguard, not Real Pilot/Super Pilot  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 27, 2013, 05:35:03 PM
You're completely right, indeed your nanoarmor has two default in-built weapons you can use right now whitout spending energy. :blush
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 28, 2013, 03:34:05 AM
Um, whew  -_-'.
That's a relief.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 28, 2013, 06:22:02 PM
Everybody that is in the "base" floor please pick positions. Only Ketaro seems to have done it so far.

Here's the map as a reminder
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 28, 2013, 06:33:17 PM
VROOM VROOM.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 28, 2013, 09:11:01 PM
Mao would teleport herself to the yellow square if she can. Otherwise she'd be wherever she'd be on the way up there.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on September 29, 2013, 12:33:56 AM
Z17/18, please.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 30, 2013, 11:54:15 AM
V18 get called yet? If not, dibs.

Also posting on my end will be scarce over the next few weeks, probably.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on September 30, 2013, 02:31:38 PM
Ninja citizen also seems to be missing from the forums.

VROOM VROOM.

Got any special ability to help you find the way trough the maze corridors and teleport pads? If not, Int check please.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 30, 2013, 02:40:55 PM
I don't think Swim or Balance would help.

I do have 60' Darkvision, which  also doesn't help.

However, if it's navigating a maze...  activating the Born to Fight thing that turns base land speed to mecha scale. That's... six times as fast, so 2640'/round, or about 300mph. For however many rounds it takes to navigate the thing at these speeds.

Int Check 1d20+2 : 1 + 2, total 3
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 30, 2013, 02:54:49 PM
Born to Fight's vehicle is something that only happens upon leaving the mecha/escape pod.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on September 30, 2013, 02:57:38 PM
You get it upon leaving the mecha/escape pod. There's no time limit on when you can use it, just how long it can be used for.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on September 30, 2013, 03:13:41 PM
Ah, yep. Usage separated as you wish. Did you mention you used the option to leave with it when you left your mecha? 

.
.
.
Jokin. I don't think it really matters :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on September 30, 2013, 03:17:04 PM
That is a most glorious Int check you just rolled.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 07, 2013, 04:30:37 PM
Another Int Check 1d20+2 : 15 + 2, total 17
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 07, 2013, 05:01:27 PM
Can we get a grid overlay again?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 07, 2013, 05:08:28 PM
Done.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 07, 2013, 05:24:07 PM
Totally forgot Baha was still there and not had moved back...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 07, 2013, 06:26:23 PM
Looks like we move first.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 07, 2013, 06:27:01 PM
I guess my better roll doesn't make up for the epic fail? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 07, 2013, 10:05:06 PM
Yeah...

You guys know I'm gonna block the crap out of their path as soon as I move, right?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 08, 2013, 01:52:58 AM
It is alright. We can move before or after your actions to our convenience.
Also, Mao takes large space on the map since her nanoarmor is large-sized.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 08, 2013, 02:54:39 AM
Yeah...

You guys know I'm gonna block the crap out of their path as soon as I move, right?

Is coo'.
I'm totes just ready to run in an instant. After I figure out if Baha is gonna move or not cause can't leave a deceivingly little girl alone >>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 08, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
Also, Mao takes large space on the map since her nanoarmor is large-sized.
Third version of the map uploaded.

I guess my better roll doesn't make up for the epic fail? :p
You'll see next turn.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 08, 2013, 11:38:40 AM
I'll be putting up a post shortly.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 11, 2013, 02:12:28 PM
@SorO:

Fission Foot x10 (total heat 11)  would get you +5 to your armor bonus to AC (+1 armor/2 heat).
You need to be at Heat 18 to reach your Hard mode benefits.

0 previous round heat + 11 stance + 3 Shooting Sun + 4 Mega Flare = 18, so you get Hard mode.
After your turn is over, you cooldown 5, so you end your turn at Heat 13, which is Normal mode.

(Baha's mode thresholds are E0-N12-H18-L24)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 11, 2013, 02:43:35 PM
Ugh I'm so horribly off.

Fixed AC/Heat gain, and now marked at 2nd level rather than 3rd.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 11, 2013, 02:59:10 PM
Easy? Normal? Hard? What are you talking about? @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 11, 2013, 05:30:02 PM
Her Nuclear Dragon monster class abilities.

Actually, I might be wrong.
Baha's mode thresholds might actually be E0-N13-H19-L25.
Because they were based of the 9th level stance dangerzones, which favors the easier modes instead of the harder ones.
Easy is from 0 to half heat, Normal between half three-quarters (not including half, including three-quarters) and hard is from three-quarters to max (including max, not including three-quarters). Lunatic is once you bust the cap, so it has to be 25.

Which would mean that you are in Normal mode the whole round.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 11, 2013, 05:54:15 PM
Her Nuclear Dragon monster class abilities.
Heh. Confused?

I'm a guy and so is my Bahamut character. However, he uses Deceivingly Innocent Form to appear as a little girl. Because this is an anima themed game and no anima is complete without an uber-powered little brat. :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 11, 2013, 05:58:51 PM
No anime is complete whitout some gender bending thrown in there as well of course. :p

Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 11, 2013, 06:05:46 PM
Fate/Zero. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 11, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
You mean the one where King Artur turns out to be a girl? :lmao

Then there's also chibi rin for the uber-powered little brat.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 11, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
But there's no genderbending. It just so happens that King Arthur is a girl. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 11, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
I believe Monster and 20th Century Boys missed that remark.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 11, 2013, 10:56:04 PM
Why did Ming ask Catherine to hold the exit? There's a huge wall of chains in place already (well, assuming the ceiling is not like fifty feet tall).  :huh

Nevermind, misread the whole thing.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 12, 2013, 03:08:42 AM
So if I understand this right, Katherine is just sitting where she is and plugging the hallway, yes? That's what was asked of her yeah? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 12, 2013, 03:23:44 AM
I recall she got some serious offensive with her blades. Could help to mince that poleziax that sits conveniently within her melee reach.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 12, 2013, 03:35:29 AM
I recall she got some serious offensive with her blades. Could help to mince that poleziax that sits conveniently within her melee reach.

Except my swords cost energy to swing and I'm at zero for like 50 minutes more.....  -_-'

Do Strikes count at attacks in regards to doubling the damage via Valor spirit so long as there is an attack roll being made?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 12, 2013, 03:46:01 AM
Yes.

But there's no genderbending. It just so happens that King Arthur is a girl. :p

My english bad, I believed gender bending included cross-dressing. Either way, boys that end up being seen as girls and vice-versa, either by actually turning on the other or just by their clothes/misunderstanding.

Which then would include Monster as well, thanks to the main villain of all things.

Never readed 20th Century Boys, but I would be pretty suprised if there's no one dressing/confused as the other gender at one point or another.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 12, 2013, 06:51:06 AM
Anomander:Something I noticed now, Plain History maneuvers cannot be used if you're wielding weapons/shields. And you're most definetely wielding a bunch of weapons right now.

I know you used the same tactic back at the previous battle, but I didn't remember this detail then.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 12, 2013, 10:15:28 AM
Yes.

But there's no genderbending. It just so happens that King Arthur is a girl. :p

My english bad, I believed gender bending included cross-dressing. Either way, boys that end up being seen as girls and vice-versa, either by actually turning on the other or just by their clothes/misunderstanding.

Which then would include Monster as well, thanks to the main villain of all things.

Never readed 20th Century Boys, but I would be pretty suprised if there's no one dressing/confused as the other gender at one point or another.

It's a disguise, it doesn't count!  :P

And at some point in 20th Century Boys there's a couple of cross-dressers, but they are there mostly to illustrate the criminal element.

(I recommend that, too.)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 12, 2013, 10:48:12 AM
... I don't think I could get within a mile of something using crossdressing to illustrate criminality. >.>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 12, 2013, 11:47:58 AM
Quote
Anomander:Something I noticed now, Plain History maneuvers cannot be used if you're wielding weapons/shields. And you're most definetely wielding a bunch of weapons right now.

I know you used the same tactic back at the previous battle, but I didn't remember this detail then.
It demands to have at least one pair of hands free. To have a pair of hands free, all she has to do is let go of the nanoarmor's controls for the duration of the initiation.
She isn't weilding any weapons/shields herself, the nanoarmor has them (and even then, that it actually has hands busy wielding anything is arguable, the shield being stuck to its arm instead and the weapons being part of its body and not necessarily wielded in some kind of mecha hand).
A Moon Vanguard has Plain History as an available school and having the nanoarmor's built-in features count against maneuver usability is a big constraint... not that it applies to Mao in this case since those maneuvers are granted to her via Gifted for War, which is independent of her mecha. Meaning as long as she herself has two free hands during initiation it should be fine.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 12, 2013, 02:23:48 PM
A Moon Vanguard also has Ancient Temple as an available school, yet the original version had no way of actually geting youkai-forged blades on the nanoarmor, thus making it basically useless.

Also, Ninja Citizen's that uses extensive use of Plain History specifically chose to have his mecha's weapons removed (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9781.msg160932#msg160932).

Then, there's part where Plain History isn't just satisfied with you having a pair of hands free. You cannot be wielding weapons/shields, point, otherwise there's around a zillion laughably easy ways to bypass that.

Plus I had made clear that mecha weapons count as manufactured weapons when in doubt (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7174.msg166308#msg166308), so you count as wielding them. Not counting as wielding them would also produce a series of bizzarre results.

But clearly the wording isn't very clear (cheap pun is cheap), so I'll work on adding a clause to moonvanguard that if you pick Plain History, you have to give up on your mecha's weapons.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 12, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
So... if a lunar vanguard has Plain History, they have to sacrifice all weapons entirely? :eh
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 12, 2013, 07:26:02 PM
Hmm, on second tought that does sound too extreme.

How about the ability to "retract" your weapons as a move action? Retracted weapons can't be used of course, but then you can use Plain History stuff. Another move action draws out the weapons and allows them to be used again.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 12, 2013, 07:34:37 PM
A move action? So... you can sheathe your weapons, use a plain history strike, and then--next turn, of course--draw them again and use a different discipline with better weapons/just attack? :O
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 12, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
That would be the theory yes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 12, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Huh, a use for Quick Draw outside of throwing weapon builds. Who knew.

... I don't think I could get within a mile of something using crossdressing to illustrate criminality. >.>

I have perhaps expressed myself poorly. There are two crossdressing characters in a given area wherein violence is rampant. They appear to be a local phenomenon, i.e. you don't really see other such characters elsewhere.

Which is another way of illustrating the kind of world they live in, which is not nice.

I'll not comment further to avoid spoilers. Go read the damn thing, you won't be disappointed.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 12, 2013, 09:33:30 PM
That crossdressing is only prevalent  where violence is does not really comfort me. Obvious why. (http://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/17/13/36/61/pictur11.jpg)

And dystopias are depressing. :(
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 13, 2013, 12:21:59 AM
Do what you want with Moon Vanguards. It doesn't change Mao's usage of the discipline. She isn't wielding any weapons and her PH maneuvers aren't dependent on her mecha . Unlike Ninja Citizen's Aden, she didn't use the maneuver to affects targets on Mu scale through her mecha. It is a self-buff that can be initiated within the mecha to affect herself, who is also within it.
Just like a spellcaster within a mecha that isn't designed to cast spells (like an Arcane Pilot's) can still cast his own spells to affect targets within the mecha, but cannot use the mecha to cast the spells.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 13, 2013, 10:06:46 AM
Do what you want with Moon Vanguards. It doesn't change Mao's usage of the discipline. She isn't wielding any weapons and her PH maneuvers aren't dependent on her mecha .
Mao's wielding the nanoarmor. The nanoarmor is bristling with weaponry.

If you insist that Mao isn't actually wielding weapons, then I'm afraid she can't use Disapearing Elegance while on it, or any Ancient Temple maneuver for the matter, because that would demand her to be wielding her youkai-forged blades.

Basically, either you're wielding the nanoarmor's weapons and get to use your stats and buffs for them, for good and ill, or you're not wielding the nanoarmor weapons, and, well, don't get to use what you're not wielding. It's not a matter of self-buffing. It's a matter of you being wielding the nano armor.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 13, 2013, 01:44:25 PM
Quote
If you insist that Mao isn't actually wielding weapons, then I'm afraid she can't use Disapearing Elegance while on it, or any Ancient Temple maneuver for the matter, because that would demand her to be wielding her youkai-forged blades.
I agree. She cannot use those maneuvers unless she can use the youkai blades while initiating them.

Quote
You can also now learn Ancient Temple maneuvers, which can only be used with the Youkai-Forged blades. You must still give up one of your original schools if you're a martial initiator.

While she is not piloting the nanoarmor, she cannot use Ancient Temple maneuvers, since the blades are built into them (and because "Those maneuvers and stances can only be used while you're wearing your Nano Armor and with its weapons.").
Mao can wear the nanoarmor's weapons without wielding them herself, but she can use her youkai blades through it as required by Ancient Temple and made possible by the Moon Vanguard system on maneuver usage.

Quote
It's a matter of you being wielding the nano armor.
That seems to be a misunderstanding of what the term 'wielding' means. Mao is equipped with the nanoarmor. You do no wield an armor unless you are actually holding it in your hands.

It depends on what your intent was when you wrote PH. You bolded the need to have a pair of free hands and mentioned afterwards that weapons and shields must not be wielded. So one wonders if wearing an armor with spikes counts as wielding a weapon, as defined by the term "wielding" in DnD; You certainly wear weapons, but are you wielding them? Some weapons are worn, equipped or a part of you (built-in) without being wielded. Do you wield your unarmed strikes? They are treated as manufactured weapons too, and yet the scholar has them as a class feature. Because he always has a weapon, he cannot use his PH maneuvers? Of course not.

This issue is not going to apply to the pilot of an actual mecha, since you are clearly a creature within a vehicle that you pilot to have it do stuff as opposed to wearing an armor that does stuff you command it to do, so there is no issue of having the mecha 'equipped', 'wielded' or otherwise. The spellcaster example I've given applies easily, but if you want to redesign nanoarmors as an equipped armor that makes you wield its weapons, be they built-in or weapons it can be separated from, while it is worn, then I'll agree that PH maneuvers cannot be used while a nanoarmor is donned unless a method to unweild them is implemented. As written, right now, that is not the case.

On a different subject, if you just don't want to have the adept wield weapons, is the part about having two free hands necessary considering not every race has two hands to begin with?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 13, 2013, 06:43:45 PM
It depends on what your intent was when you wrote PH. You bolded the need to have a pair of free hands and mentioned afterwards that weapons and shields must not be wielded. So one wonders if wearing an armor with spikes counts as wielding a weapon, as defined by the term "wielding" in DnD; You certainly wear weapons, but are you wielding them? Some weapons are worn, equipped or a part of you (built-in) without being wielded. Do you wield your unarmed strikes? They are treated as manufactured weapons too, and yet the scholar has them as a class feature. Because he always has a weapon, he cannot use his PH maneuvers? Of course not.
You're confusing classes. A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon. A scholar simply has Improved Unarmed Strike, that by itself doesn't make your unarmed strike count as a manufactured weapon.

This issue is not going to apply to the pilot of an actual mecha, since you are clearly a creature within a vehicle that you pilot to have it do stuff as opposed to wearing an armor that does stuff you command it to do, so there is no issue of having the mecha 'equipped', 'wielded' or otherwise.
Considering that both a mecha and a nanoarmor's strength/dexterity are directly tied to that of the pilot, that's not really the case. I had already pointed out mechas are basicall oversized suits of armor+weapons, not vehicles. Compare with an Apparatus of the Crab, that has its own fixed combat statistics, independent of who's piloting it.

The spellcaster example I've given applies easily, but if you want to redesign nanoarmors as an equipped armor that makes you wield its weapons, be they built-in or weapons it can be separated from, while it is worn, then I'll agree that PH maneuvers cannot be used while a nanoarmor is donned unless a method to unweild them is implemented. As written, right now, that is not the case.
I'm not redesigning, simply clarifying, just as at the start of the game you could pick Ancient Temple yet be unable to use it because you weren't geting youkai-forged blades. And I had already made a proposal about that a few posts ago, of the nanoarmor being able to retract/draw weapons as a move action.

On a different subject, if you just don't want to have the adept wield weapons, is the part about having two free hands necessary considering not every race has two hands to begin with?
Because you still need to be able to write stuff down.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 13, 2013, 11:05:00 PM
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You're confusing classes. A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon. A scholar simply has Improved Unarmed Strike, that by itself doesn't make your unarmed strike count as a manufactured weapon.
For the purpose of weapon buffs that may be applied to manufactured weapons. Mecha weapons do not behave that way. They are still treated as weapons.
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Considering that both a mecha and a nanoarmor's strength/dexterity are directly tied to that of the pilot, that's not really the case. I had already pointed out mechas are basicall oversized suits of armor+weapons, not vehicles. Compare with an Apparatus of the Crab, that has its own fixed combat statistics, independent of who's piloting it.
But you also pointed out that they are separate from the pilot. Them using your stats is part of their design. You are not the mecha, it just gets stuff based on who's in command. You make it do things. There are some psionic skins in the magic item compendium that can be worn all over you. Being able to carry a skin-tight item all over yourself doesn't make you wield it. The key word is 'wield'; You must hold it in your hands.
Some carried magic items uses some of their carrier's stats for a purpose or another, like using their saves when they are targeted. It does not make them wielded.
Even if the case of a mecha that has everything it holds mechanically be treated as if the pilot was holding them himself, built-in weaponry is not held weaponry. They aren't wielded by the mecha either.
The Apparatus of the Crab is a good example. It does not have the same statistics because it offers a different package, yet in essence it is still an object you must get into so that you may control it. And both aren't wielded.

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I'm not redesigning, simply clarifying, just as at the start of the game you could pick Ancient Temple yet be unable to use it because you weren't geting youkai-forged blades.
Now I'm clarifying why the PH guidelines do not apply in this case. Changing things so that they would is a redesign in the wording, but maybe not in intent when you wrote Plain History.

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Because you still need to be able to write stuff down.
They could do it with their mouth/unusually long tongue. Their tail. Whatever thing that could be dipped in some ink-like substance to write with. Even an amputee missing an arm can still write. Was just wondering if specifying that two hands had to be available to write on top of not wielding weapons/shields was necessary considering they can trace their writings in mid-air.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 14, 2013, 04:06:11 AM
Well...you're not really recording history if you're just tracing words in the air...

I think the problem here is simply that you're possibly assuming no action is required to draw or sheath the youkai-forged blades because they are being counted as built-in to the Nanoarmor and thus can freely go between drawing them and using Ancient Temple maneuvers then sheathing them to fulfill the requirement of Plain History needing your hands free to use it's maneuvers in the same round.

Some clarification needed to be done to allow Ancient Temple to be usable by Moon Vanguard because the interaction of the two is weird. The same problem here just seems to be the clarification of how AT & PH interacts with eachother as well, at least in the context of using maneuvers from both disciplines in the same round.

I think it'd be resolved simply by clarifying that it takes the same action to draw or sheath the Nanoarmor's built-in weapons as it does normal weapons.  :-\
Built-in doesn't mean the same as being counted as natural attacks, I believe...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 14, 2013, 05:50:37 AM
I'm wondering how PH stuff interacts with the fact it lets you wield writing implements. Does that count as hands free? :lmao

And now I remember that gestalt Scholar//Goddess with the +35 or something bonus to all knowledges at level 8. Heheh. Ah, here she is. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8666.msg180030#new)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 14, 2013, 07:00:33 AM
Reminds me of the God/Scholar/Lunatic Lancer I was interested in making awhile ago...Gosh I really wanna plan a Lunatic Lancer in something...I should think up an interesting build for that for the next opportunity :)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 14, 2013, 07:06:45 AM
I'm working on getting a character into LL, and they're... one level off. Currently a mix of vampire, vampire lord, and Eternal Royal. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 14, 2013, 11:48:28 AM
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I think the problem here is simply that you're possibly assuming no action is required to draw or sheath the youkai-forged blades because they are being counted as built-in to the Nanoarmor and thus can freely go between drawing them and using Ancient Temple maneuvers then sheathing them to fulfill the requirement of Plain History needing your hands free to use it's maneuvers in the same round. Built-in doesn't mean the same as being counted as natural attacks, I believe...
It is not a matter of there being no action cost fo draw/sheathe them. You don't need to draw or sheath armor spikes. Some weapons can be used merely by being worn. You don't have to wield them. You use them without wielding them.
Natural weapons aren't the only weapons that do not need to be wielded.

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The same problem here just seems to be the clarification of how AT & PH interacts with eachother as well, at least in the context of using maneuvers from both disciplines in the same round.

I think it'd be resolved simply by clarifying that it takes the same action to draw or sheath the Nanoarmor's built-in weapons as it does normal weapons.
If the objective is to make it harder to use AT and PH in my current situation, what would have to be done is adding a rule on 'drawing' and 'sheathing' built-in and arsenal weapons. Adding a rule that states that all weapons worn with the nanoarmor or possessed by the mecha are also treated as wielded by the pilot just for being within the mecha, even if he stops piloting it.

Then it would make it impossible for me to do what I do, so since the new clarifications are harming my action economy I'll just replace AT and the setup used to be good at it by a better discipline that will improve my damage potential and relieve me of the huge drag of having to roll so many attacks (and get a feat back).
So if the situation is indeed a problem that needs to be worked around, I've no objection to having it corrected as long as it is done correctly.
Win-win for me either way.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 14, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
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You're confusing classes. A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon. A scholar simply has Improved Unarmed Strike, that by itself doesn't make your unarmed strike count as a manufactured weapon.
For the purpose of weapon buffs that may be applied to manufactured weapons. Mecha weapons do not behave that way. They are still treated as weapons.
You lost me there with that sudden change of subject.

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Considering that both a mecha and a nanoarmor's strength/dexterity are directly tied to that of the pilot, that's not really the case. I had already pointed out mechas are basicall oversized suits of armor+weapons, not vehicles. Compare with an Apparatus of the Crab, that has its own fixed combat statistics, independent of who's piloting it.
But you also pointed out that they are separate from the pilot. Them using your stats is part of their design. You are not the mecha, it just gets stuff based on who's in command. You make it do things. There are some psionic skins in the magic item compendium that can be worn all over you. Being able to carry a skin-tight item all over yourself doesn't make you wield it. The key word is 'wield'; You must hold it in your hands.
Some carried magic items uses some of their carrier's stats for a purpose or another, like using their saves when they are targeted. It does not make them wielded.
Even if the case of a mecha that has everything it holds mechanically be treated as if the pilot was holding them himself, built-in weaponry is not held weaponry. They aren't wielded by the mecha either.
The Apparatus of the Crab is a good example. It does not have the same statistics because it offers a different package, yet in essence it is still an object you must get into so that you may control it. And both aren't wielded.
Thank you for the enlish lesson. Since the word "wielded" doesn't cover half of what I tought it did, clarified the original intent on the Plain History thread.

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I'm not redesigning, simply clarifying, just as at the start of the game you could pick Ancient Temple yet be unable to use it because you weren't geting youkai-forged blades.
Now I'm clarifying why the PH guidelines do not apply in this case. Changing things so that they would is a redesign in the wording, but maybe not in intent when you wrote Plain History.
I can assure you my intent when writing Plain History was not for them to all become Mad Max raiders covered in spikes.

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Because you still need to be able to write stuff down.
They could do it with their mouth/unusually long tongue. Their tail. Whatever thing that could be dipped in some ink-like substance to write with. Even an amputee missing an arm can still write. Was just wondering if specifying that two hands had to be available to write on top of not wielding weapons/shields was necessary considering they can trace their writings in mid-air.
With their bare hands, not other appendages.

If the objective is to make it harder to use AT and PH in my current situation, what would have to be done is adding a rule on 'drawing' and 'sheathing' built-in and arsenal weapons. Adding a rule that states that all weapons worn with the nanoarmor or possessed by the mecha are also treated as wielded by the pilot just for being within the mecha, even if he stops piloting it.
Nanoarmor now has rules for retracting weapons and making them useable again, since Moon Vanguard was never intended to allow a Plain History user to go around with a full arsenal at the tip of their hands, whetever youkai-forged blades or not.

Then it would make it impossible for me to do what I do, so since the new clarifications are harming my action economy I'll just replace AT and the setup used to be good at it by a better discipline that will improve my damage potential and relieve me of the huge drag of having to roll so many attacks (and get a feat back).
So if the situation is indeed a problem that needs to be worked around, I've no objection to having it corrected as long as it is done correctly.
Win-win for me either way.

Point out your character's changes when you're done.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 14, 2013, 07:02:08 PM
What about the Scholar's 'I WILL BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH A SCROLL' trick? Does that prohibit using PH maneuvers?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 14, 2013, 07:14:57 PM
No, those are intended to work just fine, but clarified it just in case.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 14, 2013, 10:34:01 PM
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You lost me there with that sudden change of subject.
Losing tracks happen when you change the subject yourself. I was talking about the wieldability of weapons that aren't wielded and then you focused on changing the meaning you gave to 'treating as a manufactured weapon' for the guidelines on using mecha weapons; that being the ability to make iterative attacks with them, and made it about the manufactured weapon guidelines proper to Monks.
So I return to the point, saying that mecha weapons, although they follow manufactured weapons usage guidelines, cannot be enchanted like a Monk's fists. Your point about Monks doesn't apply since fists can still make iterative attacks as per your mecha weapon manufactured weapon use guidelines. Maybe I didn't make this harder to understand. Vulgarization isn't my forte.

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including but not limited to animated shields, armor spikes, mechas/nanoarmor with weapons drawn, nanoarmor, and similar,
Including but not limiting to is very vague. You should instead define what is right and what isn't instead of making a small incomplete list.
You list nanoarmor has something that prevent initiation of the maneuvers. The entire nanoarmor. So just having a nanoarmor on makes it impossible to use PH.
You mention mecha/nanoarmor with weapons drawn. You put the notion of retrieving weapons and making them usable again, but it doesn't fit the DnD term of drawing a weapon, which already has action types to cover that. (Move action, free action as part of a move, free actions with Quick Draw...)

In the case of Mao, these change are, again, insufficient to prevent her use of PH when inside a mecha if she stops piloting it to initiate. You don't equip a mecha.
Don't forget to include the rules for retrievable retractable weapons in the mecha section.

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Point out your character's changes when you're done.
Good idea. Will do.

I've considered many options, but using Dolls equipped with weapons (that Mao herself isn't equipped with) sounds like a very attractive option.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 15, 2013, 12:43:29 PM
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You lost me there with that sudden change of subject.
Losing tracks happen when you change the subject yourself. I was talking about the wieldability of weapons that aren't wielded and then you focused on changing the meaning you gave to 'treating as a manufactured weapon' for the guidelines on using mecha weapons; that being the ability to make iterative attacks with them, and made it about the manufactured weapon guidelines proper to Monks.
So I return to the point, saying that mecha weapons, although they follow manufactured weapons usage guidelines, cannot be enchanted like a Monk's fists. Your point about Monks doesn't apply since fists can still make iterative attacks as per your mecha weapon manufactured weapon use guidelines. Maybe I didn't make this harder to understand. Vulgarization isn't my forte.
Mechas don't have unarmed strikes. Some of them have fist attacks, but they're not unarmed strikes, just like a golem has slam attacks, and thus have their own rules.

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including but not limited to animated shields, armor spikes, mechas/nanoarmor with weapons drawn, nanoarmor, and similar,
Including but not limiting to is very vague. You should instead define what is right and what isn't instead of making a small incomplete list.
You list nanoarmor has something that prevent initiation of the maneuvers. The entire nanoarmor. So just having a nanoarmor on makes it impossible to use PH.
Bad editing on my part, nanoarmor appearing twice, removed the second one just leaving the "mechas/nanoarmor with weapons drawn" part.

You mention mecha/nanoarmor with weapons drawn. You put the notion of retrieving weapons and making them usable again, but it doesn't fit the DnD term of drawing a weapon, which already has action types to cover that. (Move action, free action as part of a move, free actions with Quick Draw...)
If it already fitted DnD rules, I wouldn't need to homebrew it.

In the case of Mao, these change are, again, insufficient to prevent her use of PH when inside a mecha if she stops piloting it to initiate. You don't equip a mecha.
Excellent point. Taken care of.

Don't forget to include the rules for retrievable retractable weapons in the mecha section.
Done as well.

I've considered many options, but using Dolls equipped with weapons (that Mao herself isn't equipped with) sounds like a very attractive option.

Weren't you just complaining about having to make too many attack rolls? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 15, 2013, 12:59:19 PM
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Mechas don't have unarmed strikes. Some of them have fist attacks, but they're not unarmed strikes, just like a golem has slam attacks, and thus have their own rules.
I guess I indeed made it harder to follow. You totally lost the point. Oh well. Not like it really matters.

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If it already fitted DnD rules, I wouldn't need to homebrew it.
You wouldn't have to overhomebrew it if you used the right terminology.
Just explaining that all mecha weapons can be drawn and sheathed as wield-able weapons would be sufficient.

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Excellent point. Taken care of.
Good for the rules on piloting and stopping to pilot. It makes it easier to determine how switching pilots go when you have passengers in a mecha that wants a go at kicking butts with it.
The whole mecha being treated as equipped is amusing though. :p
Shows how far you're willing to go to make things interact the way you want them to with other stuff you've made.
Coincidentally, that I got you to make mechas count as equipped just made pilots very vulnerable to a particular trick. TBC.

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Weren't you just complaining about having to make too many attack rolls? :p
I definitely aim to spare myself that annoyance if I can avoid it.  :psyduck
Every round up to now I looked for something I could do without rolling a thousand dice but the best available options I've snared myself into always figuratively involved at least half that number. Not really motivating to get a post done quickly.
Getting more firepower is simple enough but I'd like to stick with something that doesn't stray too far from the theme I've got going if possible.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 15, 2013, 01:11:43 PM
You wouldn't have to overhomebrew it if you used the right terminology.
Just explaining that all mecha weapons can be drawn and sheathed as wield-able weapons would be sufficient.
Sufficient to make the ruling useless, since there's multiple easy ways to draw weapons as a free action.

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Weren't you just complaining about having to make too many attack rolls? :p
I definitely aim to spare myself that annoyance if I can avoid it.  :psyduck
Every round up to now I looked for something I could do without rolling a thousand dice but the best available options I've snared myself into always figuratively involved at least half that number. Not really motivating to get a post done quickly.

Write down the rolling code ahead of time for your main attacks, then copy-paste as needed. It's what I do for the NPCs.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 15, 2013, 01:21:26 PM
Vulnerable to a particular trick? Which one's this, sundering?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 15, 2013, 01:22:49 PM
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Sufficient to make the ruling useless, since there's multiple easy ways to draw weapons as a free action.
I don't see why. If normal weapons go by the draw/sheathe rules to use Plain History, why should mechas/nanoarmors have a harder time at it? Especially if they invest in feats like Quick Draw.
If the objective of the ruling is to avoid giving mecha/nanoarmors an advantage over normal weapons for using PH, making it harder goes beyond that goal.

The term 'retracted' might be a better fit than 'retrieved'. Retrieving something implies that you are getting back something that you didn't have before the retrieval while retracting something is simply getting inside something that you have outside.

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Write down the rolling code ahead of time for your main attacks, then copy-paste as needed. It's what I do for the NPCs.
It's what I already do but I always have to change the numbers since the circumstances of the rolls are rarely the same up till now. Though perhaps I could make myself a better template with numbers that can be formatted in more easily. Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 15, 2013, 01:42:14 PM
More character and  action updating  please. Already been 8 days, I'm advancing the turn tommorrow.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 15, 2013, 01:48:51 PM
Hey, what do you expect me to write? There's not much of an IC post that can't be bundled into whenever I arrive. And the OOC stuff is on here. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 15, 2013, 02:49:55 PM
Already took mah akshun.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 15, 2013, 10:50:35 PM
Something I've been wondering; is it normal that Moon Vanguard offers no simple weapon proficiencies? They can get the Ancient Temple and Doll Judgement disciplines but they have nothing to use as youkai blades and to arm their dolls.
I can work around that, no problem, but I'm mostly wondering if it was meant to be a class flaw that made it particularly bad at with disciplines. It is a little odd that the can wield arsenal guns and sabers but have no idea how to use normal versions of those weapons.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 16, 2013, 06:48:47 AM
Ancient Temple just demands one-handed slashing weapons. Several of those available among mechas.

Added in a single simple weapon proficiency of their choice to help Doll Judgment Moon Vanguards a bit.

As for why you can wield that laser saber but not a regular longsword, well, the longsword doesn't come with in-built gyroscopes, AI and smart stablizers to help the registered wielder. :p

And since I'm here
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Sufficient to make the ruling useless, since there's multiple easy ways to draw weapons as a free action.
I don't see why. If normal weapons go by the draw/sheathe rules to use Plain History, why should mechas/nanoarmors have a harder time at it? Especially if they invest in feats like Quick Draw.
If the objective of the ruling is to avoid giving mecha/nanoarmors an advantage over normal weapons for using PH, making it harder goes beyond that goal.
Moon Vanguard gives both maneuvers and awesome weapons by default. Other martial classes give maneuvers, but do not give awesome weapons. They have to invest other resources.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 16, 2013, 10:03:30 AM
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Moon Vanguard gives both maneuvers and awesome weapons by default. Other martial classes give maneuvers, but do not give awesome weapons. They have to invest other resources.
If your read the question again, you might notice that that answer does not answer the question nor address the point raised.

It also a very strange answer considering not long ago you didn't even need to draw those awesome weapons, so obviously it wasn't a concern before and was added for PH purposes alone.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 16, 2013, 11:03:17 AM
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Moon Vanguard gives both maneuvers and awesome weapons by default. Other martial classes give maneuvers, but do not give awesome weapons. They have to invest other resources.
If your read the question again, you might notice that that answer does not answer the question nor address the point raised.
If you really believe so, there's absolutely nothing I can post here that will answer that question or adress that point.

It also a very strange answer considering not long ago you didn't even need to draw those awesome weapons, so obviously it wasn't a concern before and was added for PH purposes alone.

Considering that I made the new ruling because before moon vanguard simply didn't work with Plain History (as in the definition of wielding weapons that Plain History was based upon, instead of the D&D version you claimed to be the correct one, that doesn't corresponed to the dictionary definition of wielding which I had tought correct), then yes, it was for Plain History purposes alone. Who could have imagined that a new ruling following a discussion about definitions among two sets of rules would be based on that same discussion? :p

BTW, you just admited I actually answered your question (why mecha/nanoarmor weapons have slightly worse retrieving rules than other weapons) and adressed your point (the objective of the ruling is indeed to avoid giving mecha/nanoarmors an advantage over normal weapons for using PH).
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 16, 2013, 12:06:07 PM
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BTW, you just admited I actually answered your question (why mecha/nanoarmor weapons have slightly worse retrieving rules than other weapons) and adressed your point (the objective of the ruling is indeed to avoid giving mecha/nanoarmors an advantage over normal weapons for using PH).
Then you did not understand the point and the question.
The point wasn't about whether the objective of the ruling was to avoid giving mecha/nanoarmors an advantage over normal weapons for using PH or not. That alone was a given. The point and question was; if the reason a draw/sheathe rule was added to nanoarmors/mechas was so that they could use PH without having an advantage over other PH users (since they didn't have to draw weapons) why make it more difficult than any other discipline? They don't have particular restrictions using most of their other available martial disciplines, why should they have a special limitation with PH that other martial adepts do not have?

Before the ruling, it was as good as any other adept with every discipline, but had an advantage with PH since they didn't have to wield weapons. You try to correct this by turning the advantage into a disadvantage; ergo turning the balance problem into a different balance problem.

Saying: "Moon Vanguard gives both maneuvers and awesome weapons by default. Other martial classes give maneuvers, but do not give awesome weapons. They have to invest other resources." does not address why they should now have a particular disadvantage with one of their available schools. They get nice weapons, okay, so they have to invest into non-weapon resources. Other classes get non-weapon resources and can invest into nice weapons if they want. That is the point of having a balanced class. If you say they should have a particular disadvantage over other martial classes, then it is the same as admitting that your class is overpowered compared to your other martial classes - so fixing the class shouldn't be done by making it handicaps with a single martial discipline that is optional, but by making it weaker as a whole so that it is on par with the others.
I'm not saying that I think that is the case, before you put more words in my mouth.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 16, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
Can we move the in-depth  discussion of Moon Vanguard/Plain History mechanics to either of those threads, perhaps? @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 16, 2013, 04:03:18 PM
What RD said.

Will start updating now. Since it's partially my fault for not having noticed it earlier, and I guess Anomander was too busy with something else to update his character in time, then Mao will simply run in bugged mode for this battle for simplicity's sake.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 16, 2013, 07:28:39 PM
Would Overwhelming Presence work on these things? I'm not terribly sure what it does work on... @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 16, 2013, 07:41:10 PM
If they were pilots inside mechas, it would work. But they're clearly constructs, and those are immune to stunning by default.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 16, 2013, 07:50:26 PM
Ah, so they are.

... how many rounds has it been since I stabbed the guy? I need to work out if I've got full Spirit or not. :lmao

K and B, why must you be so close?  Otherwise 'energy blast cone' would be a viable tactic. ;-;
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 16, 2013, 08:03:44 PM
3 rounds.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 16, 2013, 11:42:55 PM
Reflex save to avoid deafness? Ok.
Used that tower counter to prevent the action so that the Waber dude doesn't kick bucket on us.
Damn Mao being needlessly altruistic.  :nonono
Edit: Nevermind. It was probably the best move possible for the situation. I'll use one my two attack rerolls if the first attack would fail.

For future reference, if an ability is supernatural it has to overcome a d20 level check against a DC 33 to affect Mao.

Also, did one of the 6 enemies within her melee reach do anything that would provoke an AoO? Whether from movement or maybe using ranged attacks.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 17, 2013, 03:33:24 AM
Also wondering if any of the bots within 15ft of me provoked any AoOs cause I get a lot~ :)

Also I'm glad I suddenly gained some universal energy resistance!

Also were any of the sonic attacks against me ranged attacks or just AoEs?
Was the electric bolt that zapped me a ranged attack?
Also can I assume you took Alert into account already?

Secondary to that, does Alert trigger on any attack against you, even if the roll ends up being a miss, or only trigger on attacks that actually would have hit you? Just cause I don't feel like the working for the ability is clear on that.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 17, 2013, 04:59:12 AM
Reflex save to avoid deafness? Ok.
Remember that even if you make the save, you're still left deafned for 1 round.

Used that tower counter to prevent the action so that the Waber dude doesn't kick bucket on us.
Damn Mao being needlessly altruistic.  :nonono
Edit: Nevermind. It was probably the best move possible for the situation. I'll use one my two attack rerolls if the first attack would fail.

For future reference, if an ability is supernatural it has to overcome a d20 level check against a DC 33 to affect Mao.
I already knew that. Turns out that sound loud enough to deafen you and inflict other structural damage is a an Ex ability. Strange I know, since singing well enough to motivate people is considered nothing short of supernatural in D&D. :P

Also, did one of the 6 enemies within her melee reach do anything that would provoke an AoO? Whether from movement or maybe using ranged attacks.
Damn, I knew I was forgeting something. You get 2 Aoos against the two polizeis in the center when they fell on Baha's hole.

Also don't forget to advance Mao's update when you have the time.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 17, 2013, 05:02:00 AM
Also wondering if any of the bots within 15ft of me provoked any AoOs cause I get a lot~ :)
You would get one against the Polizei that was right under Baha and then fell (and Baha himself would get an Aoo against it now that I think about it).

Also I'm glad I suddenly gained some universal energy resistance!

Also were any of the sonic attacks against me ranged attacks or just AoEs?
The sonics were Aoos.

Was the electric bolt that zapped me a ranged attack?
Yes, already took in account your 20% miss chance.

Also can I assume you took Alert into account already?
Yes.

Secondary to that, does Alert trigger on any attack against you, even if the roll ends up being a miss, or only trigger on attacks that actually would have hit you? Just cause I don't feel like the working for the ability is clear on that.
It triggers on the first attack against you, regardless if it would be a hit or not. That's why it's so cheap spirit wise.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 17, 2013, 05:20:48 AM
Quote
I already knew that. Turns out that sound loud enough to deafen you and inflict other structural damage is a an Ex ability. Strange I know,
Not really. I expected them to be Ex abilities. Just didn't want to take a chance on it seeing how these attacks don't show us their tags.

Quote
Also don't forget to advance Mao's update when you have the time.
Trying. Probably will start working on it later today if I've the time. Can't manage more than short posts atm so posting my next actions might take quite a moment too.

Not a fan of making big character changes in the middle of a battle though, so that might give me time to double-check my stuff and try to type them down.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 17, 2013, 05:46:14 AM
Not a fan of making big character changes in the middle of a battle though, so that might give me time to double-check my stuff and try to type them down.

Again, at this point, the update will just apply after this battle is over for simplicity's sake. Keep your bugged stats around.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 17, 2013, 11:14:32 AM
Um... can I limit the maximum range of an attack, or is it automatically at full blast? Just checking with 'energy blast' is a viable tactic or if Kenny and Baha would get caught in it too. @_@
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 17, 2013, 02:12:26 PM
Well I moved some so that may help.

Also, Sonic Damage? I don't suppose anyone has a Silence Spell handy do they? :D
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 17, 2013, 02:13:28 PM
Um... can I limit the maximum range of an attack, or is it automatically at full blast? Just checking with 'energy blast' is a viable tactic or if Kenny and Baha would get caught in it too. @_@
Unless it says in the ability text "up to", you have to use max range.

EDIT:

~Note: Creeping is a Swift to use, centered on my and above my head. That's 2 dimensional speak. Why not spin upside down and burn people below me? I mentioned such on my sheet since day one, finally trying to pass it directly in front of the DM through.

Hmm, ok go ahead with it for rule of cool's sake. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 17, 2013, 02:36:58 PM
Ugh, this reminds me I was supposed to turn Creeping Sun into standard action after explaining why it wasn't a problem and wouldn't deal double damage. Guess I got side-tracked.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 17, 2013, 02:48:54 PM
Hm, how many abilities do I even have that are useful (since a bunch of them either need enemies lined up or greater-than-Medium size, which wouldn't fit as Colossal is bigger than the spaces available) and don't involve friendly fire because I'm facing the wrong way? :lmao

Seems like my best action might just be Spring Attack Full Attack w/Valour (hurrah, fastest!) -> Zeal -> repeat sans Valour. KILL THE BLUE THING.

Possibly try blinding basically every enemy within 120'  of Amaterasu.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 17, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
Well I moved some so that may help.

Also, Sonic Damage? I don't suppose anyone has a Silence Spell handy do they? :D
Maybe. Is Silence Evocation or Conjuration?

Failing that, I have some cookies handy.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 17, 2013, 04:59:49 PM
Its an illusion.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 17, 2013, 05:06:47 PM
Even better. XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 17, 2013, 05:07:37 PM
Should I try blinding them as well to turn this into the corridor of 'knowingwhat's happening is hard'? XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 17, 2013, 10:12:07 PM
Ugh, this reminds me I was supposed to turn Creeping Sun into standard action after explaining why it wasn't a problem and wouldn't deal double damage. Guess I got side-tracked.
Heh. I looked at that thing on day one going, "well what if I didn't throw it?".

Honestly the concept of "double damage" isn't even something I questioned. I mean it too. Creeping Sun dealing 1d6/IL on round 1 then 1d8/IL on round 2? Sounds normal. I mean, it's a 6th level Maneuver we're talking about, circumstantially Flare Up deals 1d6/IL and that's only 3rd level. 4th level gives you Hell's Artificial Sun which is not only 1d6/IL but Dazes people, feeding a 6th level into it next round deals 1d10/IL + Paralyze, and Stun, and Daze, because screw your immunities you don't get a turn. Hell, Mega Flare's damage is significantly higher than 1d6/IL (12d6=42, 15ranks+10die=50, and you still have circumstantial/competence/ability/etc) and that damn near matches WotC Standards (sic nightmare blade maneuvers). Creeping Sun's Swift Action 1d6/IL has a knee jerk to it, but it's what you'd come to expect out of Divine Flame...

And it's not like our DM is slouching off with some low valued numbers either. ;)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 18, 2013, 01:02:52 AM
What happens when I use the Block boost from Burning Justice and the Stealth mecha property to hide at the same time?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 18, 2013, 02:18:51 AM
I did the maths too. Even then and with those points taken into consideration I'd rather swap it to standard activation. The standard would include the initial area, the possibility to hold it there and concentrate into the next round or throw it right away.
I think it would still be a fair deal, even if it is a far less attractive option for 6th level maneuvers.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 18, 2013, 05:08:34 AM
... oh, right, I can use Hell's Artificial Sun and constrain the radius can't I? :D

... I guess it's bad form to immolate the warforged because he is in the way of most of the more interesting things I can do? If he was literally 5' back, this wouldn't be a problem (in fact, if he was, stuff would fit neatly. XD)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 18, 2013, 06:33:40 PM
... so... is it possible to move that giant K (that I THINK is the warforged) 5' back down the corridor before he eats 100+ damage? Unless he's immune to atomic damage. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 19, 2013, 03:04:13 AM
The giant K is Katherine and she is moving. As soon as oslecamo answers that weird question regarding a weird circumstance :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 19, 2013, 08:19:23 AM
Also wondering if any of the bots within 15ft of me provoked any AoOs cause I get a lot~ :)
You would get one against the Polizei that was right under Baha and then fell (and Baha himself would get an Aoo against it now that I think about it).

Also I'm glad I suddenly gained some universal energy resistance!

Also were any of the sonic attacks against me ranged attacks or just AoEs?
The sonics were Aoos.

Was the electric bolt that zapped me a ranged attack?
Yes, already took in account your 20% miss chance.

Also can I assume you took Alert into account already?
Yes.

Secondary to that, does Alert trigger on any attack against you, even if the roll ends up being a miss, or only trigger on attacks that actually would have hit you? Just cause I don't feel like the working for the ability is clear on that.
It triggers on the first attack against you, regardless if it would be a hit or not. That's why it's so cheap spirit wise.

I think you might have missed this post?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 19, 2013, 09:04:31 AM
What happens when I use the Block boost from Burning Justice and the Stealth mecha property to hide at the same time?

You become an invisible barrier. If you manage to remain undetected, neither you nor those behind you can be targeted.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 20, 2013, 02:38:41 AM
What happens when I use the Block boost from Burning Justice and the Stealth mecha property to hide at the same time?

You become an invisible barrier. If you manage to remain undetected, neither you nor those behind you can be targeted.

Yes! That is exactly what I hoped!  :D

I think you might have missed this post?

Nah, you missed my follow-up question  :P

Blast it! I nat' 1'd my hide check :( Turrible.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 09:37:39 AM
BURN EVERYTHING.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 09:52:28 AM
Quote
You become an invisible barrier. If you manage to remain undetected, neither you nor those behind you can be targeted.
But they are clearly aware that someone in the blocking area is doing some blocking and somehow hiding people behind him.

Quote
BURN EVERYTHING.
When in doubt...
Well, it is the answer to everything.
Did you select your actions for the next round? You didn't roll your shooting sun damage but you rolled your next round.

@ketaro: Do you still have a standard action?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 20, 2013, 10:11:48 AM
@ketaro: Do you still have a standard action?

Well, yeah. I just didn't use it for anything cause like just about any strike I could use does damage based on my normal attack which right now is not only fairly little damage, especially under the safe assumption of the enemies having any DR, but also a lot less to hit than what I usually can. I mean, I just didn't feel like it'd help, and I'm trying to hide.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 10:18:10 AM
I did include the shooting sun damage. >.>

Round one: Hell's Artificial Sun, 12d8.
Round two: Hell's Artificial Sun lvl 6 + Shooting Sun (Swift Action). 12d10+6d6.

Round one: standard+move+free, round two: standard+swift.

What was the ruling on Valour+AoE's? XD
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 01:09:15 PM
There are other uses for standard actions than strikes. Total defense, a normal attack (including trip/disarm/etc).
Even if nothing seems good, there is always Aid Another.

@Raineh: Nope. You rolled 12d10+6
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 01:22:18 PM
... I didn't, I just seem to have gotten the formatting wrong. >.<
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 01:23:54 PM
Not sure I understand why you act for two rounds already.
You rolled 12d6+6 again.
Edit: Never, you fixed it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 01:52:46 PM
Zeal.

Turns might be a better way of putting it? I guess the important thing is using two standard actions to feed stuff into Hell's Artificial Sun.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 08:09:11 PM
You get two turn's worth of actions, but you don't actually get two turns. And even then it happens within the same round.
Quote
Upon initiation you use the level 4 effect without increasing the size of the area. Each round then after...
It implies that boosting the effect by burning maneuvers into it happens in later rounds.
Having a bunch of standard actions to use into it won't work. At least it wasn't the intent.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
Really? It consumes multiple maneuvers to do so; it's not like Shooting Sun where the effect scales independent of investment. Two turns, two maneuvers, two effects. Get multiple actions? Great, you can use them to use the maneuvers themselves, or continue using HAS. :/
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 09:34:38 PM
Read as written, you can use a standard to concentrate on the effect to have it carry on into the next round by expending a maneuver, which also alters the effect. That happens once each round. Maneuvers usually need to be recovered to be used again and you bypass the recovery by expending more maneuvers. I don't want a built-in system within a maneuver to use a maneuver, sort-of recover it and use again within the same round, so only once per round.
Osle can houserule that you can do it anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 09:38:09 PM
I don't get what you're saying. This doesn't bypass maneuver recovery; it just expends them to do something different. The only maneuver recovery that can be used along with HAS is Eternal Royal--which doesn't even have it as an option. Basically everything else requires you to stop concentrating on HAS to recover it. :/

As written, you can use HAS, next round feed into HAS, and then use an extra turn to recover that maneuver. That won't change by making you unable to feed maneuvers into it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 10:25:48 PM
I mean by that that the maneuver is being used again without being recovered and you can still do other things and use other maneuvers. You don't have to recover it to expend maneuvers into it. Because it bypasses the need to recover between uses, it applies once per round. Yes, it requires more expended maneuvers and an action. That covers the use per round but doesn't justify being able to use it X times in one round.
Using your actions on other things doesn't break concentration, as long as a standard is spent on it to keep it going for another round.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 20, 2013, 10:39:29 PM
It doesn't function as being used without recovering it. You can't move it, it still uses up maneuvers, still uses up actions, and this way you can't do other stuff without losing it. It's intrinsically limited. And I'm arguing for entire turns--that is, if you get two turns into a time you'd normally have one, you treat it as two separate rounds, rather than just extra actions.

Given that we've got group initiative, could think of it as right on the boundary of turns?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 20, 2013, 11:56:17 PM
No, a round is a round. A turn is a turn. Some tricks can alter your turn or change your initiative so your turn happens twice within a round. Buffs that work for one round takes effect on both turns, not one.
And zeal does not give you two turns anyway. It only gives you two turn's worth of actions. Not two turns.
It might sound like the same thing but it isn't.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 21, 2013, 03:00:19 AM
There are other uses for standard actions than strikes. Total defense, a normal attack (including trip/disarm/etc).
Even if nothing seems good, there is always Aid Another.

Mmm.....yeah...I guess I always keep thinking Full/Total Defense is a fullround action...
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 22, 2013, 04:53:29 PM
Oh, made a mistake on the attacks. They do ignore half armor/shield/natural bonuses to AC but they probably ignore all DR and hardness instead of half if the target isn't a mecha, since she is larger than her targets.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 23, 2013, 02:20:30 PM
Should update this tommorrow, just Hugo hasn't acted yet.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 25, 2013, 09:24:31 PM
Is the electric damage four separate things, and therefore three can be negated with That Won't Work Twice? :lmao

So, charmed, which changes absolutely nothing about how she would've acted anyway. :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 25, 2013, 09:34:11 PM
Yes, you can use That Won't Work Twice to block off the other three.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 25, 2013, 09:40:34 PM
Right.

Literally no way that I'm making that concentration check, though, so the sun goes poof.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 25, 2013, 10:11:56 PM
Kath was blocking line of effect to most of those behind her. Are they still supposed to be subjected to that charm thing?
Also, is that charm effect another Ex ability?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 26, 2013, 03:48:18 AM
Kath was blocking line of effect to most of those behind her. Are they still supposed to be subjected to that charm thing?
Also, is that charm effect another Ex ability?

On top of this query, I should also be adjacent & infront of Baha on the board as that's what I've been trying to keep doing.
(Yeah cause looking back Baha flew over AD17 so I moved back to AC17)

Secondly, does using a Charm count as an attack in regards to the Alert I have active?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 26, 2013, 06:20:57 AM
Kath was blocking line of effect to most of those behind her. Are they still supposed to be subjected to that charm thing?
It can go around obstacles. Katherine wasn't fully blocking the corridor.

Also, is that charm effect another Ex ability?
No, but it managed to overcome your Su-resistance.

Kath was blocking line of effect to most of those behind her. Are they still supposed to be subjected to that charm thing?
Also, is that charm effect another Ex ability?

On top of this query, I should also be adjacent & infront of Baha on the board as that's what I've been trying to keep doing.
(Yeah cause looking back Baha flew over AD17 so I moved back to AC17)
Can't update the map right now, but go ahead and count yourself in that position. In the future tough please state the corners you want your character to end in when you're filling more than one space.

Secondly, does using a Charm count as an attack in regards to the Alert I have active?
Your alert had already been expended blocking the new sonic wave.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 26, 2013, 09:41:30 AM
Craaaaaaaaaaap I keep forgetting to activate Alert. It's a damn good thing my illusion spells (or at least the shadow ones) get auto-silent, or that deafened condition is gonna SUCK if it takes.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 26, 2013, 01:43:22 PM
Quote
Is this OK?
Swift: Melting White (heal from atomic damage, can include self in maneuvers) +1 Heat
Full-Round: Desolation Breath (12d6 atomic) from mouth to body, slagging the floor yet again. Mega Flare & Creeping Sun recovered, X HP healed.
Unfortunately it technically isn't possible. I've tried to do something similar in an area game once for totally different reasons and understood it wasn't possible because of the rules on area aiming.
A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate.
Key word here being "shoots away from you". So you cannot choose a corner and shoot inward. It must aim outward completely.
It says spell but it is the ruling on area effects.

It may otherwise be accepted anyway for 'the rule of cool', if it qualifies.

Quote
Standard: Ready Standard vs a perceived hostile action from the Erinye Prototype.
You cannot just ready a standard action with a trigger. You must also declare what the action is going to be (unless you have some ability that allows to declare whatever you want once the trigger is triggered.)

@osle: Out of curiosity, how do you handle creatures joining an encounter already in progress? Do you roll their initiative and make them play their turn somewhere between the PCs and enemies or do you just lump them with the enemies/PCs depending on whether they are allies/enemies/neutral?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 26, 2013, 04:21:46 PM
I'm Readying Acid Fog and unnoted Move Action for the Components.

Also, you're drifting from that helpful guy that reminds me to finish my slap-together posts in this game to just plain annoying.
So why don't you concentrate on fixing your homebrew* and let me ask the DM what I want to ask instead of being so presumptuous?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 26, 2013, 05:00:34 PM
I'm sorry I gave you that impression.

Quote
If it were possible to actually use Rocket Dive, I can use Melting White to charge my self or even Fuse with my self. Hilariously I can use Setting Sun to throw my self around too and god knows what else. So if you really want to take exception to attacking your self, I've got a wonderful idea of what you should be doing rather than what you are doing.
While attacking yourself is possible, I'm not sure charging yourself can be done since you must charge at least 10ft toward the target. Though I imagine Rocket Dive can be awkward since isn't a normal charge.
Wasn't referring to rules against attacking yourself but at a rule on how cone effects can be used.
If it isn't worded clearly, I'll remedy to it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 26, 2013, 06:00:01 PM
Actually as written your Charge Maneuvers are a Full Round Action Initiated during a Charge. This created two huge problems, the first being that Charging already takes a Full-Round Action so without Celerity and the sort it's impossible to use. Secondly, Melting White does/did in fact state you can choose your self as a target of a Maneuver, Atomic Dodge and Nuclear Fusion being the biggest wtfs, but it's not necessarily a Divine Flame Maneuver either as it was ambiguous enough to apply to any Maneuver.

Now, the Atomic Dragon seems to very much be written hand in hand with Divine Flame even through two different people wrote them. The ability to include your self in your Breath Weapon when using something like Melting White makes a lot of sense. Now admittedly it doesn't help that I think Cones should say away from the point of origin rather than you but I think it's enough to warrant asking the DM on it. Specially when my other self heal option is to use Hell's Artificial Sun and Melting White. And a problem with is besides Paralyzing/Stunning/Dazing my self is it's up in the air where the Sphere would manifest in order to include me in it's manifest. Same with everything else honestly, if I were holding the Creeping Sun, do I have to move into it? etc.

So no, rather than dealing with all of that blew through it, asked the DM to breath on my self and if not CC murderbot. At the time, it seemed simpler.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 26, 2013, 06:22:02 PM
Brings to mind effects like Shalantha's Delicate Disk or contigency on a trigger that does not happen within your immediate personal area.

Which reminds me, are there ways to deal atomic damage via spells?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 26, 2013, 06:23:03 PM
Quote
Actually as written your Charge Maneuvers are a Full Round Action Initiated during a Charge. This created two huge problems, the first being that Charging already takes a Full-Round Action so without Celerity and the sort it's impossible to use.
Charging as part of the initiation of the maneuver is something I've picked off the Tiger Claw maneuvers, such as Pouncing Charge. The order of the words might make this unclear though since I've meant to use the same formula.
 
Quote
Secondly, Melting White does/did in fact state you can choose your self as a target of a Maneuver, Atomic Dodge and Nuclear Fusion being the biggest wtfs, but it's not necessarily a Divine Flame Maneuver either as it was ambiguous enough to apply to any Maneuver... The ability to include your self in your Breath Weapon when using something like Melting White makes a lot of sense.
It wasn't intended to work with any maneuver. Only to make it possible to heal even if you are the source of the effect (like shooting yourself with the control rod). I edited it to make it clearer.
The breath isn't a maneuver so that clause about adding yourself as maneuver target doesn't apply.

Quote
Now admittedly it doesn't help that I think Cones should say away from the point of origin rather than you
I actually agree (even though then it wouldn't mean anything since the origin is an intersection point, which makes it impossible to not shoot away from it). I did try pull a similar stunt myself. I just mentioned why the rules makes doing that particular trick difficult, which is why I stated that the rule of cool could apply.

Edit: Changed how Creeping Sun works. Mostly following my later thoughts on it. Including yourself in the area of effect of a maneuver is simple enough. You just have to share your space with that area. That can be accomplished by the usual ways; be within the AoE if it can be generated on you, move the AoE into yourself if it can be moved, have the AoE last long enough for you to move into it.
IE, if you could make your breath last, say, with Desolation Breath or the Lingering Breath feat, you could move into your breath area to absorb the damage.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 26, 2013, 07:33:38 PM
Charging as part of the initiation of the maneuver is something I've picked off the Tiger Claw maneuvers, such as Pouncing Charge. The order of the words might make this unclear though since I've meant to use the same formula.

Maneuver rules state: You initiate a maneuver by taking the specified initiation action. A maneuver might require an immediate, swift, move, standard, or full-round action to initiate.
You used: Initiation Action: Full-round action ... This maneuver is initiated as part of a charge.
So you can already see the confusion I hope. The Maneuver is an addition to Charging, but it's not a Boost or following standard format.
For reference, Pouncing Charge says: As part of initiating this maneuver, you make a charge attack.
The Full-Round Maneuver it's self makes you charge, same format is found in White Raven and such.

The breath isn't a maneuver so that clause about adding yourself as maneuver target doesn't apply.
No, but it should. Just like Melting White, Rocket Dive, Cones, etc should say something else about it's self. ;)

You know, while we're at it Heat needs to be seriously addressed. Think of it this way, say if at 26 Heat and I use a Maneuver to add 2, then cooldown 5. I'd be at 24 and in the 3rd stage right? No. If at any point I am at 28 Heat I immediately am royally fucked over, I'm Overloaded 3rd Stage, difference being is my Maneuvers no longer work. So I have to track Heat values for each and every single Action I take. Now add to this the Atomic Dragon's Ability Adjustments for Heat levels. The DC of a Maneuver I use could be one rate, could be another after a Boost, yet still another after Fission Foot's Free Action, and even a fourth after the Maneuver is used (or during? hellifiknow).

Technically, if I really paid attention I'd be using Fission Foot more often than I do now because each stage increase also increases the rate in which I cooldown. In fact, it's impossible for me to enter the 3rd level of Heat with my current level and apparently way too high Constitution (it's 20 at lv12, what a joke) combination. At 21 Heat I enter the 3rd stage and 28 it's the 4th. So since I'm raped at 28 on following the total hitting that value 27 is the highest I can obtain. This bumps my 20 Con to 24 or -7 Heat, putting me square back into the 2nd stage. If I wanted to enter the 3rd level, I need to overload or reroll with substantially frailer, weaker, more pathetic body (dump con). Which in turns means less cooldown and therefor less Maneuvers. It's a no win situation either way you go and because of that its not a fun mechanic. And the paperwork between the two is astounding. I don't think I've posted an accurate bonus yet. I mean my Will Save vs Charm this round is off by a point (just checked, forgot stage 2's +2 to Wisdom). And worse, I've been skipping the HP side entirely. At the start of combat I should have gained 36 HP, only to lose 12 by the end of the round. This round, I both went up and loss 12. But imagine I initially added those HPs and the bot's still dropped me to 11 HP. On cooldown I dropped unconscious and in the following round dead. Not only am I supposed to watch my Heat overloading in between each action, I'm to additionally track my immediately death for Heat changing HP too much. And don't forget, my Initiative has been all over the place too so if if we acted per Initiative Count everyone would be sharing my headache. Imagine attempting this on the tabletop.

So needless to say, I've been ignoring the HP gain, screwing up bonuses, wiping entire posts to redo actions, and so on. I get so bogged down in this the tab explosion to even reread my a Maneuver or Spell does is forgotten in seconds. Stream lining Heat rape/bonuses to be end of round and revamping Atomic Dragon's Ability Boost to be say a flat +1/+2/+3/+4 to Attack, Damage, Saves, and maybe Skills like Sadism would help out a lot. That way it's a single flat rate value during your entire turn.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 26, 2013, 08:08:39 PM
Aye, I understood the confusion. Which is why I questioned the order in which I put the words into that sentence.
I just fixed it, I hope.

Quote
Which reminds me, are there ways to deal atomic damage via spells?
Not to my knowledge. Or at least not that I remember.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 27, 2013, 05:27:34 AM
Do we even have a healer?

And yeah, sorry osle. I'll try to be clearer about where I move my huge ass self :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 27, 2013, 07:05:01 AM
I don't think I can technically heal everyone by Wrapping them, then using One with the Machine to heal both myself and the wrapped individual using a mecha's nanomachines. Wrap and Fast Healing/some other self-heal would be slower but less tricky rules-wise.
Covering their skin with her own might qualify as a very awkward experience though. Even if refluffed as Mao covering an individual with the entire code translation of her physical manifestation. Or something just as farfetched and overly complicated. :blink

I think everyone has self-heals for their own mecha but my cohort has some just in case.
Otherwise... I don't think we have a real healer yet.
Mao might get some healing later but nothing good to use in-battle for the while.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 27, 2013, 10:01:52 AM
Well, I do have my Shadowcraft Cookies; depending on how troublesome it would be to get access to healing spells or wands, I could go with that.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 27, 2013, 10:40:00 AM
I have Fast Healing, I guess? XD

I don't think Guts works out of a mecha, but that's only good for me, anyway.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 27, 2013, 10:56:34 AM
Actually, I'm pretty sure Spirits work in any situation, mecha or non.

I mean, we're not riding right now, and we have people using Alert... unless I forgot something about Guts' description.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 27, 2013, 11:04:19 AM
I think I specifically asked about the healing spirits, and they don't work. But best to ask again since I can't remember where that was asked.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 27, 2013, 01:46:22 PM
Spirits work whether you're in your mecha or not. It is just that the healing ones specifically mention that the healing is done to the mecha. So you could, say, heal your mecha with a spirit even if you are not piloting it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on October 27, 2013, 08:17:09 PM
It would be common knowledge for your characters that a building of this size has to have one or more medical facilities/supply storages with stuff to patch you up during downtime, if you'll just look for it.

Seems like plenty of questions while I was away, let me know if I miss something.

@osle: Out of curiosity, how do you handle creatures joining an encounter already in progress? Do you roll their initiative and make them play their turn somewhere between the PCs and enemies or do you just lump them with the enemies/PCs depending on whether they are allies/enemies/neutral?

Lump them.

So needless to say, I've been ignoring the HP gain, screwing up bonuses, wiping entire posts to redo actions, and so on. I get so bogged down in this the tab explosion to even reread my a Maneuver or Spell does is forgotten in seconds. Stream lining Heat rape/bonuses to be end of round and revamping Atomic Dragon's Ability Boost to be say a flat +1/+2/+3/+4 to Attack, Damage, Saves, and maybe Skills like Sadism would help out a lot. That way it's a single flat rate value during your entire turn.

Excellent point, changed to flat out bonus. Anomander will have to do the heat rules part tough.

Spirits work whether you're in your mecha or not. It is just that the healing ones specifically mention that the healing is done to the mecha. So you could, say, heal your mecha with a spirit even if you are not piloting it.
Correct. I won't say that was intended from the start, but it kinda makes sense now that you mention it. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 27, 2013, 08:23:11 PM
It makes sense I can overcome a mecha's injuries through spirit but not my own? :O
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on October 27, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
You know, we ARE pretty close to the entrance, my mecha IS small enough and it CAN operate independently from me.

Are you all thinking what I'm thinking?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 27, 2013, 09:50:42 PM
Your mecha is small or lower? By all means, bring it in. Break the doors if needed.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 28, 2013, 11:30:08 AM
No, we go outside and our Mechs step on the enemies.

Through of it a couple rounds ago but someone wants to be neck deep in enemies.

And for those of us not paying much attention, namely my self, is that person the same one that had their mech blown up? I'm just wondering if there's a trend and I should be looking into what buff spells I've got on Arcane Pilot's crappy list.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on October 28, 2013, 12:12:18 PM
No, we go outside and our Mechs step on the enemies.

Through of it a couple rounds ago but someone wants to be neck deep in enemies.

And for those of us not paying much attention, namely my self, is that person the same one that had their mech blown up? I'm just wondering if there's a trend and I should be looking into what buff spells I've got on Arcane Pilot's crappy list.

Yes. Yes it is.  :lmao

And I just feel like these robots wouldn't follow us outside the tower.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on October 28, 2013, 12:24:10 PM
That would be fine if there weren't more possible survivors to go rescue inside the facility.
Which is, like, most of the reason we even went in there.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on October 28, 2013, 01:40:00 PM
Getting separated from everyone else wasn't intentional this time. I did not expect to utterly fail to get out on the first round at those speeds. :p

... as for getting exploded, oh well. Always got to try and make friends. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on November 04, 2013, 06:12:58 PM
The update of this will have to wait until next weekend I'm afraid. Just too busy with RL stuff to properly focus on D&D combat.

May update low end if they decide to go somewhere since they're out of combat right now.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 09, 2013, 08:17:40 PM
Hm, would I get an AoO?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on November 09, 2013, 08:30:05 PM
Unless you have at least 15 feet reach, no.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 09, 2013, 08:30:45 PM
Hm, nope. Not in this form, anyway. And the other one just doesn't fit. :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 09, 2013, 10:03:45 PM
Hm, nope. Not in this form, anyway. And the other one just doesn't fit. :lmao
That's what she said!  :blush
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 09, 2013, 10:10:44 PM
Hm, nope. Not in this form, anyway. And the other one just doesn't fit. :lmao
That's what she said!  :blush

Given that she's 70' tall, of course. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 10, 2013, 04:46:59 PM
 :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on November 14, 2013, 08:33:45 AM
Oh. Did combat end?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on November 14, 2013, 03:34:59 PM
Assuming we go after crazy prototype girl, I guess so.

Hugo did mention that the bots will probably keep on coming unless we turn the security system off, though.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 14, 2013, 11:17:41 PM
Anyone invest Ranks in Use Computers or did they, like me, think D20 Modern's Skills were off the table?
Maybe Disable Device?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 14, 2013, 11:24:17 PM
I don't think we could reasonably disable the security system from the entrance, not when this was constructed as a settlement.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on November 15, 2013, 05:22:20 AM
Oh. Did combat end?

Depends whetever you want to pursue Erinye prototype or not.

Anyone invest Ranks in Use Computers or did they, like me, think D20 Modern's Skills were off the table?
Maybe Disable Device?
You need to find the main system console and press the glowing buttons. It doesn't take much of computer skill, just finding the right room for it.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on November 15, 2013, 08:28:39 AM
Well Baha was playing with the nearest console pretty easily, what with getting a bunch of security footage and remixing it and all. Maybe she's got/can bring up a layout of the place showing where to go to do that if we don't already have a layout of this place somewhere in the party (because I certainly don't as far as I remember) :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on November 15, 2013, 12:48:53 PM
I've got some ranks in Knowledge (technology). I know we're supposed to substitute normal dnd stuff for modern things but I wouldn't know what else could be used to represent hacking into a computer, network or system. Maybe Use Magic Device.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 15, 2013, 02:27:20 PM
You need to find the main system console and press the glowing buttons. It doesn't take much of computer skill, just finding the right room for it.
That's how I disable everything ^_^
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on November 16, 2013, 08:51:13 AM
Will update this tomorrow. Nobody else wants to do something in the IC?
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on November 16, 2013, 08:55:47 AM
I want to GTFO and get it on with sexy Newmans, but you can't always get what you want.  :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 16, 2013, 09:13:49 AM
My only IC idea would be 'follow', but that would mean getting separated again. >.>
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on November 16, 2013, 05:26:28 PM
I'm a bit not sure what I would do right now besides continue waiting for my cooldowns :D
So I really wouldn't want to get separated from the party.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 18, 2013, 02:38:34 PM
So, uh, if I choose to follow them, am I going to end up completely on my own again? And do we actually have any better direction to head to try and find out how to turn this stuff off? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on November 18, 2013, 02:44:59 PM
There are possible survivors left within the dome to fetch and contact. 2 I left below and another 2 I think that would be a little upstairs.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on November 18, 2013, 03:26:13 PM
So, uh, if I choose to follow them, am I going to end up completely on my own again?
Depends on your ally's actions. :p

And do we actually have any better direction to head to try and find out how to turn this stuff off? :p
Well, you destroyed the nearby console with all the fireworks, but it should self-repair after some time (or you could just go look for another), then make a search for places you would like to check out.

And yes, Mao radar detected two more survivors beings upwards.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 18, 2013, 05:35:11 PM
I'm inclined to want to keep an eye on the advanced prototype. Anyone want to come with me? :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on November 18, 2013, 06:47:33 PM
Well......if Ammy tells me to....I wouldn't object... :rolleyes
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 18, 2013, 07:24:48 PM
... anyone else? Anyone? Anyone not waiting for an hour-long cooldown? D:
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on November 18, 2013, 08:50:46 PM
I say we follow miss certain doom.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 18, 2013, 08:57:06 PM
Am I Certain Doom due to everywhere I go causing explosions, or is that the prototype? :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on November 18, 2013, 09:18:09 PM
You're free to take that however you want.  :P
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: ketaro on November 19, 2013, 03:23:04 AM
... anyone else? Anyone? Anyone not waiting for an hour-long cooldown? D:

 :lmao
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on November 19, 2013, 01:35:27 PM
Not me. It's looking for unnecessary trouble.
Gonna fetch the mother and her kid, get them safe then find the other two.

I'd rather see that we quickly get our job here done before wandering around. Especially when pointless fights offer no xp rewards.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 19, 2013, 01:39:14 PM
Well, this IS part of our job, too.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Kuroimaken on November 19, 2013, 01:46:34 PM
The crazy nuclear lady has a point.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 19, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
"*sigh* Why can the crazy ones always materialize miniature suns?"

Materialising suns is probably why she's crazy. All that power, spend decades as a teacher. :p
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Anomander on November 19, 2013, 02:11:28 PM
Well, it is mostly a matter of priority and effort distribution.

For now we have made significant progress in explaining what happened to the colonies. Have something worth going back to report.
Next is the rescue of colonists. We are getting there.

Securing the dome to avoid having to fight even more security-bots would be pretty important too. Avoiding casualties would be nice.
E-Proto is trying to find one of our objectives, so she is essentially doing work that we would be doing anyway.
Using her might be profitable. There is the possibility that she would try to kill our target and that this is actually a race but it isn't the impression I had from the situation.
Getting more information from her would be easier if there is no tension between us and her (it). Pressuring her might actually draw hostility and make any further contact a problem to deal with.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: Raineh Daze on November 19, 2013, 02:12:50 PM
We know what actually happened? :O
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: oslecamo on November 19, 2013, 02:41:36 PM
Well, it is mostly a matter of priority and effort distribution.

Priority: update your character to remove eitherPlain History or Ancient Temple elements.
Title: Re: High-End OOC thread
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 23, 2013, 10:12:33 AM
Note - It's not that I've been ignoring you. It's that I forgot.

Two full timers quit at my part time job and they need help covering hours, on top of all of the vets at my main job wanting Thanksgiving off. Fun fun. I'll get around to updating at some point.