Author Topic: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving  (Read 56576 times)

Offline Maelphaxerazz

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #120 on: March 14, 2017, 11:19:22 AM »
There is a way around Chameleon's spellbook expense, which I plan to use. The Apprentice feat lets a character copy from their mentor's spellbook at no charge. At level 5, you may also exchange it for Mentor, which gives you another cohort. Two birds with one stone.

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2017, 01:12:41 PM »
Actually, I see that that negates the Copying fee, but does it also negate scribing costs? If not, then the 'Chameleon Extra Spell' trick should do to get some spells, and Warlock 12's Imbue Item (if he survives that far) should take care of the rest (by making scrolls of any arcane spell he needs, then either using it or scribing it)

[Edit] I'm considering having the character create a Boccob's Blessed Book, but even at the reduced cost, it's 4686.5 gp (unless I can fit Extraordinary Artisan, in which case it's 3515.63gp), plus the 300-450gp price of scribing secret page (for the crafting of the book). So if we can use 47 (or 36) spell levels of spells, for crafting or whatever, the BBB pays for itself. A 20th level sorcerer knows 42 'pages' worth of spells, counting 0-level spells as 1 page. [/Edit]

[Edit2] Duh! Extraordinary Artisan is much more necessary than Legendary Artisan, as it's only going from 3% XP cost down to 2.25% XP cost. I'll update that build. [/edit2]

@Drammor: If a character takes the Improved Cohort feat, it still abides by the Cohort XP rules. Thus, an existing cohort can't catch up unless the PC gets more XP than he can use (more than 2 level's worth). Will that be addressed, or am I somehow incorrect?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 02:22:34 PM by Chemus »
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Offline ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #122 on: March 14, 2017, 04:33:53 PM »
Can't you use other nonfeat cost reduction to make that BBB cheaper? Like making it x class only.

Offline Garryl

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #123 on: March 14, 2017, 05:03:15 PM »
The Spellcraft skill lets you memorize spells from another person's spellbook. The DC is 15 + spell level for each spell, one check per day. IIRC, Complete Arcane lets you permanently work from someone else's spellbook with a DC 25 + spell level Spellcraft check, too. It's a little unreliable without a high Spellcraft modifier, but it should help cut down costs for having large numbers of spellcasters around.

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #124 on: March 14, 2017, 06:42:05 PM »
I don't know how to judge it sorry -_-'

@Drammor
I've gotten to the point of browsing spells for my Cohort's bard side atm. I may edit this before you respond. I'm exhausting D&D sources for interesting stuff before browsing Pathfinder >> Yes, whatever is linked below is me asking for a PF spell...

0th Level Signal
2nd Level Lay of the Land
3rd Level Arcane Concordance

That is all please & thank you~

Edit: Hmm, not counting a few more spells (above), yay I finished my cohort. With a very appropriate spell selection for largescale war :p
God damn is he both squishy and easy to hit...

Excellent spells for war. You may get some weirdness going on with the second one, but hey, weirdness is why we have a game at all. These are definitely approved, yes.

@Drammor: If a character takes the Improved Cohort feat, it still abides by the Cohort XP rules. Thus, an existing cohort can't catch up unless the PC gets more XP than he can use (more than 2 level's worth). Will that be addressed, or am I somehow incorrect?

No, you're right.

We could just fix cohorts at their maximum level and give them an XP pool that puts them "halfway to their next level", and have them gain/lose a permanent level when you do. Their pool could gain or lose XP as it was gained/spent but it wouldn't affect their level. And I'm not majorly concerned about what that means for cohort crafting.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2017, 08:42:15 PM »
Oh no, I have 18 AC as a frontline dps that drops to 12 when I rage  :lmao

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #126 on: March 14, 2017, 09:06:35 PM »
Oh no, I have 18 AC as a frontline dps that drops to 12 when I rage  :lmao

you lose 6 AC while raging?
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #127 on: March 14, 2017, 09:24:35 PM »
In return I gain +8 Str/+6 Con >.>

Edit: Well, I can also somewhat undo and/or bump the AC loss with Phalanx Fighter if I grant it to everybody and just make ya'll huddle up  :plotting
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 09:38:48 PM by ketaro »

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #128 on: March 15, 2017, 12:28:33 AM »
Can't you use other nonfeat cost reduction to make that BBB cheaper? Like making it x class only.
Um... it can require a DC... 15? ...21? spellcraft, or ...forgery, check to scribe... that knocks off 10% (~350gp), But I can't see a way to get a 'specific class' (and alignment is right out!) requirement in there well (which could knock off 30%) Unless they meant a class feature (such as arcane casting) in which case, the book only functions for those who prepare and scribe spells as a wizard does... if I could do that it would get it to 2214gp.

The Spellcraft skill lets you memorize spells from another person's spellbook. The DC is 15 + spell level for each spell, one check per day. IIRC, Complete Arcane lets you permanently work from someone else's spellbook with a DC 25 + spell level Spellcraft check, too. It's a little unreliable without a high Spellcraft modifier, but it should help cut down costs for having large numbers of spellcasters around.

So sharing the BBB could be good... I'd not reread the entry, just got the price and linked it; it's 1000 pages, not 100 (I'd misremembered that instead of 1k pages, that each spell took 1 page in the book) so the cost of unique arcane spells is 3.5gp (or 2.2gp) per spell level. Who all has need of a spellbook, and of those who's got the lowest spellcraft? I'd need to get +21 to permanently use the BBB with 6th level spells I'd not scribed myself.

And though the DC to prepare from it is only 15+level, the DC to decipher is 20+spell level, and deciphering must be done first. However it says "A read magic spell automatically deciphers a magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic." so if anyone else needs to decipher my cohorts handwriting just ask ;)

So the BBB can be shared with only +11 to spellcraft (my cohort can only get to 6th level spells, so unless someone else needs to get higher, the DC is 21, and you can take 10 on spellcraft). Anyone's character/cohort gonna have less that that on spellcraft?
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
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Offline ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #129 on: March 15, 2017, 01:12:24 AM »
I'm done. Welcome to the field of battle: Dedstorm Ted and Bannerlord Zed


Orc names weren't doing it for me so I went to a goblin name gen. It works, they're basically the same thing :p
Did you know Ted is considered a legit goblin name?  :lmao
I also did not expect building my followers to take over 8 hours -_-' my gosh...

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #130 on: March 15, 2017, 03:58:17 AM »
A heads-up, it's taking longer than I thought to get a firm understanding of all the large-scale battle rules. This is due in part to the volume in content, and to the amount of other stuff I'm working on. The starting date may change, depending on how long it takes me to wrap my head around it all, but I want to make sure I'm not leading you all into a mire of mistakes.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #131 on: March 15, 2017, 05:04:48 AM »
Is cool~ I haven't even touched heroes of battle yet ;)

Gosh, it sure is fun imagining hundreds of orcs ominously chanting "Ted, Ted, TED, TED" ever louder and becoming a cacophonous, bloodthirsty roar of just there boss's name. Terrifyingly fun fanfare  :plotting

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2017, 10:33:32 AM »
@Drammor: If a character takes the Improved Cohort feat, it still abides by the Cohort XP rules. Thus, an existing cohort can't catch up unless the PC gets more XP than he can use (more than 2 level's worth). Will that be addressed, or am I somehow incorrect?

No, you're right.

We could just fix cohorts at their maximum level and give them an XP pool that puts them "halfway to their next level", and have them gain/lose a permanent level when you do. Their pool could gain or lose XP as it was gained/spent but it wouldn't affect their level. And I'm not majorly concerned about what that means for cohort crafting.

Weighing in on this. I'm a bit fond of the always maximum level for Cohort myself. Even if it just means less bookkeeping.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 10:42:29 AM by Rekmond »
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2017, 11:06:47 AM »
Yeah, I'd be happy for this to be the case.

Everyone, I remembered that he said Taint is in play! That means that Undead and Evil Outsiders are immune to the negative effects of Taint (HoH, 62), but can still gain bonus feats at moderate and again at severe Taint (HoH 67).

Now to get the HoB rules read...
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
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Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2017, 04:37:36 PM »
um so, I was looking at equipping my Dvati and ended up stumbling over one thing that REALLY needs to be decided on.

How does having two bodies interact with ability score enhancing items like the Cloak of Charisma?

Does the bonus apply to both bodies? Does it apply to whichever body is wearing it while the other keeps normal scores? Can each body wear one thus doubling the bonus? (not bloody likely)
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2017, 05:01:14 PM »
Only the body wearing the item receives the bonus. The other body keeps their normal scores.

Also, max level cohort for less bookkeeping is go.

Edit: Have you guys put any thought into a companion spirit?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 05:56:00 PM by Drammor »
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2017, 11:24:49 PM »
Companion spirit? Uhh... never really read that part of DMGII. Does that interact with Practiced Cohort at all (HoB)?

I'm looking at using PsyRef as a Magic Device (1/Day) to fix my PC's and its Cohorts' feats  to maximize Leadership. If I do, then it'd have ~160+ 5th level+ followers, capping out at 9th level followers, and 12 Cohorts from 4th to 8th level, only one of which has to be that crafting cohort (otherwise there'd be a few more), and if we can attract followers later on, then as we advance, there'll be even more.

The PC would have over 6k followers at 9th level. Is this taking things too far?

Apathy is ...ah screw it.
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Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #137 on: March 16, 2017, 02:44:34 AM »
I can appreciate doubling down on the followers aspect of the game, but that really is going too far with the concept.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #138 on: March 16, 2017, 03:30:19 AM »
That's what I thought, but once I saw the possibility, I kinda had to check. I'll limit the followerness-ness of my feat picks then.

Since alignment ain't in the game, would an item in MIC that's limited to Turn undead (Not Rebuke Undead) still have that limit, and would it be homebrew to have the same item in reverse? (Ephod of Authority, Part of Vestments of Divinity (Set for 'fighting evil creatures'), MIC 215, +1 Turn Undead).
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
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Offline Maelphaxerazz

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #139 on: March 16, 2017, 12:48:23 PM »
I can appreciate doubling down on the followers aspect of the game, but that really is going too far with the concept.
Could you clarify this? My current also has a similar horde of followers (and more), so I would like to know how many followers is too many, so I can guide my choices.