Author Topic: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving  (Read 56599 times)

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #220 on: July 07, 2017, 01:27:38 PM »
I seriously have to stop accepting new players after this, though. I won't be able to handle any more. :tongue


On the other side of the spectrum, let me introduce you to one of the NPCs. He is a nameless man so unfortunate that he was exiled for the crime of being too ugly. Not even the most blind or deranged mother could love him. He's one of the few truly neutral characters you'll meet, and how your relationship with him goes is entirely up to you.

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« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 01:31:21 PM by Drammor »
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #221 on: July 07, 2017, 01:45:02 PM »
Quite the description. Not someone I'd like talking to in real life.

As an aside, to boost the utility of my few troops, all 23 of them. I am debating picking up a few siege weapons. Possibly a Heavy Mangonel and a pair of Heavy Ballista. Have the rest of my troops as replacement operators/defenders. Maybe lay some traps using Blast Disks or Exploding Spikes.

Thoughts and opinions?
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #222 on: July 07, 2017, 02:27:54 PM »
It would be a good choice once you get to defending a keep or other settlement in the city, yeah. Depending on if you go that route.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #223 on: July 07, 2017, 02:48:10 PM »
I'm considering Warlock as an alternative to Binder (though I'm not sold yet either way). Drammor, would you rule that eldritch glaive can be used to make Assaults, Parries, etc.?

EDIT: Also, is PrCs on both sides of the gestalt kosher?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 03:12:57 PM by sirpercival »
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Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #224 on: July 07, 2017, 07:14:39 PM »
Well, the easy one to answer is that prcs can occupy only one side of the gestalt.

The question about the eldritch glaive invocation is quite a bit more complicated. On one hand, it acts in several respects like a weapon, but it's not a weapon, and there is a large number of things it cannot do as a result. On the other, it is weapon-like enough to make multiple attacks if your BAB is high enough, and you can apply a few feats to it as if it were a weapon. In the end, though, I'm going to say it's a gray area and rule against it in general.

In specific, though, I think that the number of things it can't do should be examined in detail, and a feat or two to ameliorate the difference should be provided. I say this because there is quite a number of "this is not a weapon" details behind eldritch glaive, and allowing it would be a great boost in raw damage for a martial character. As a result, how it works with Bladecraft should be carefully calibrated, if you want to go in that direction at all.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #225 on: July 07, 2017, 07:27:18 PM »
I just realized - you've okayed Bladecraft, but does that include the feats/ACFs/Blademaster PrC which make up the supporting material?
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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #226 on: July 07, 2017, 07:37:02 PM »
Upon careful consideration of the rules and many math. I have decided to drop the Siege Weapon idea for my mooks. It simply won't work 80% of the time.

the DC 10 Str part of the reloading check, I can get an Orc with +2 str and a +1 from a Marshall support...and for people to aid him requires a DC 10 profession check which can't be done untrained. +5 to this check at best without tooling them up.

and that doesn't even go into the dc 15 profession checks to Aim and reload. Much less if you ever need to repair the weapon.

I just can't see it working with a group of Level 1 characters.

edit. Even if I hash out the gold for the +2 bonus self-reloading (which isn't happening) the aiming would likely flop and they would hit the target once in every 6 or 7 shots.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 07:44:06 PM by Rekmond »
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #227 on: July 07, 2017, 07:43:27 PM »
Upon careful consideration of the rules and many math. I have decided to drop the Siege Weapon idea for my mooks. It simply won't work 80% of the time.

the DC 10 Str part of the reloading check, I can get an Orc with +2 str and a +1 from a Marshall support...and for people to aid him requires a DC 10 profession check which can't be done untrained. +5 to this check at best without tooling them up.

and that doesn't even go into the dc 15 profession checks to Aim and reload. Much less if you ever need to repair the weapon.

I just can't see it working with a group of Level 1 characters.
Improved Aid Another improves the bonus to +4? The Superior Team Effort teamwork benefit from PHB2?
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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #228 on: July 07, 2017, 07:45:57 PM »
Upon careful consideration of the rules and many math. I have decided to drop the Siege Weapon idea for my mooks. It simply won't work 80% of the time.

the DC 10 Str part of the reloading check, I can get an Orc with +2 str and a +1 from a Marshall support...and for people to aid him requires a DC 10 profession check which can't be done untrained. +5 to this check at best without tooling them up.

and that doesn't even go into the dc 15 profession checks to Aim and reload. Much less if you ever need to repair the weapon.

I just can't see it working with a group of Level 1 characters.
Improved Aid Another improves the bonus to +4? The Superior Team Effort teamwork benefit from PHB2?

Yeah, but here's the thing. Standard stat array.
for that +1 aura from Marshal I have to give them a Cha boost which is easiest from race. Skill focus to make the check easier could work, but the odds are still gimped.

actually, .....4 ranks in Profession, +3 from SF, +1 from a Wis boosting Marshal, and I would have a +8 for those Profession checks. So I 'might' be able to make it work. forgot Skill Focus honestly.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 07:48:15 PM by Rekmond »
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #229 on: July 07, 2017, 07:47:05 PM »
I just realized - you've okayed Bladecraft, but does that include the feats/ACFs/Blademaster PrC which make up the supporting material?

The feats are fine, but the ACFs and PrC will have to wait for another occasion, I'm afraid.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #230 on: July 07, 2017, 10:20:06 PM »
I just realized - you've okayed Bladecraft, but does that include the feats/ACFs/Blademaster PrC which make up the supporting material?

The feats are fine, but the ACFs and PrC will have to wait for another occasion, I'm afraid.
OK, no worries. I probably wasn't going to use the ACFs anyway, and the PrC (while awesome) would only have contributed one level to the build anyway.
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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Archon

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #231 on: July 08, 2017, 01:05:08 AM »
Okay, so currently my build is looking like this: (Sorry for the terrible formating)



Race: Draconic Orog With Major Noble Bloodline

Bard 9 // LA 2 Orog / LA 1 Draconic / Binder 1 / Warlock 1 / Warblade 4


target leadership score of 31 (Now 36)
9 (Level) + 9 (Natural Leader) + Cha  +Str (Might makes right) = 36


Native Stats:

    Starting   Bloodline   Orog Racial   Draconic Racial   Level-up    Items   Total
Str 15          +1          +6          +2                         +4       =28 (+9)
Dex 12                      -2                                              =10 (+0)
Con 12                                  +2                                  =14 (+2)
Int 12                                                                      =12 (+1)
Wis 7                       -2                                              =5  (-3)
Cha 17          +1          +2          +2             +2          +4       =28 (+9)


Level    Class 1   Class 2         Feats               
1      Bard     Orog LA       RETRAIN:Requiem         
2      Bard     Orog LA       BONUS:Force of Personality   
3      Bard     Binder      RETRAIN:Improved Cohort   
4      Bard    Draconic LA    BONUS:Leadership            
5      Bard    Warlock                         
6      Bard    Warblade      Might Makes Right        
7      Bard    Warblade                        
8      Bard    Warblade                        
9      Bard    Warblade      Extra Followers       

(The Bonus feats are from the bloodline, and I haven't noted the song of creations feats here)



(click to show/hide)



Gear: 16k +4 cha, 16k +4 str. Some other things. (I know these costs will be dropped - haven't done gear properly yet)

[/font]
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 01:10:18 AM by Archon »

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #232 on: July 08, 2017, 01:17:10 AM »
Okay, so currently my build is looking like this: (Sorry for the terrible formating)

target leadership score of 31 (Now 36)
9 (Level) + 9 (Natural Leader) + Cha  +Str (Might makes right) = 36

The Leadership feats you have (aside from leadership itself) increase your score by 1 apiece. So Improved Cohort and Extra Followers add another +2 to your score.
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Archon

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #233 on: July 08, 2017, 01:20:10 AM »
Okay, so currently my build is looking like this: (Sorry for the terrible formating)

target leadership score of 31 (Now 36)
9 (Level) + 9 (Natural Leader) + Cha  +Str (Might makes right) = 36

The Leadership feats you have (aside from leadership itself) increase your score by 1 apiece. So Improved Cohort and Extra Followers add another +2 to your score.

Do they? I didn't know that. That's really good. I'll start integrating the extra troops. No extra high levels, but another two companies doesn't go amiss.

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #234 on: July 08, 2017, 01:23:57 AM »
Okay, so currently my build is looking like this: (Sorry for the terrible formating)

target leadership score of 31 (Now 36)
9 (Level) + 9 (Natural Leader) + Cha  +Str (Might makes right) = 36

The Leadership feats you have (aside from leadership itself) increase your score by 1 apiece. So Improved Cohort and Extra Followers add another +2 to your score.

Do they? I didn't know that. That's really good. I'll start integrating the extra troops. No extra high levels, but another two companies doesn't go amiss.


"LEADER FEATS
This book introduces a new type of feat called leader feats.
Leader feats augment or alter the effects of the Leadership feat
(as presented on page 97 of the Player’s Handbook and described
in more detail on page 106 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). Typically,
a leader feat affects your cohort and/or your followers but
has no effect on other allies.
 Since all leader feats include Leadership as a prerequisite,
their presence in the game is subject to the DM’s approval. If the
DM prefers not to include the Leadership feat in the campaign,
then all feats of the leader type are similarly off limits.
 In addition to their listed benefits, each leader feat taken by a
character improves his Leadership score by +1
."

Bottom paragraph on page 96 of Heroes of Battle.
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Archon

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #235 on: July 08, 2017, 01:27:39 AM »
Thank you for pointing that out. I haven't read the book through yet. Add that too the to-do list.


Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #236 on: July 08, 2017, 01:36:11 AM »
No problem. I've still got a bit of work to do myself. Figuring out if I really want to run some siege engines for one. They'll be pricey and annoying. And I already have to equip two bodies since I'm fielding a Dvati as my pc.

I might just go with giving all my people Far Longbows with weapon focus and call it done.
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Archon

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #237 on: July 08, 2017, 01:52:10 AM »
I have enough new troops for a third new company - I might make that siege, once I have read the rules. How effectively could 90 level 1-2's do siege, do you think?

Otherwise, it will be rouges and factotums, set up for infiltration.

Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #238 on: July 08, 2017, 02:00:46 AM »
I have enough new troops for a third new company - I might make that siege, once I have read the rules. How effectively could 90 level 1-2's do siege, do you think?

Otherwise, it will be rouges and factotums, set up for infiltration.

for using Heavy Mangonels...you could easily do 6 per Engine and get your hits in. Heavy Trebuchet is where you'd want 10 per, but it also costs 3K base instead of 800. But has higher damage and distance. (1000 ft, 6d6 vs 1500 ft 14d6)

My setup is level 1s doing the labor while my level 3 and the pair of 2s are the crew Chiefs who do the actual firing.

And to craft any engine takes a dc 20 Craft Siege Engine check.
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Archon

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #239 on: July 08, 2017, 02:09:59 AM »
Level one NPC's have 900gp WBL, according to this, which is what I have been using. If each crew member contributes 500gp of that to the siege engine fund, that pays for a lot of kit.

I'm thinking of 1 squad of 3 of the ten-man big ones, and 2 squads of 5 of the six-man ones, plus bards and marshals to buff, and a squad of hostlers to keep the horses and mobility for these things.

Also, speaking of NPC WBL, each of my 1500+ soldiers is contributing 100gp to the diamond fund, in exchange for a chance at getting resurrected out of it if they die in battle. (since my 9th level healers knows raise dead, this gives us a good fund to keep the main party members, and the better followers going even in hard times). And its good for morale, if the prize for "Most Glorious death that left a reasonably intact body" is being brought back to life.