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Handbooks & Resources => Handbook Discussion => Topic started by: Jackinthegreen on June 25, 2013, 12:42:02 AM

Title: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 25, 2013, 12:42:02 AM
Mettle mini-handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10506.0)

I don't really expect this to get much discussion unless someone points out a class I missed, but I might as well have this thread just in case.

ToB and ranged weapons (Carnivore) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11233.0)

Just a port from Carnviore's archery handbook that was back on the WotC boards.  Bozwevial dredged it up, and has given me permission to make a mini handbook out of it.

Dragonlance 3.5 source books mini-index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11445.0)

Just me taking a look at a wikipedia link and deciding to port some of it over here.  Dragonlance has some great stuff in it and is a fairly well-known fantasy setting.

Abjurant Armor spells mini-handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12558.0)

I decided to look through a spell catalog and find out which spells actually benefit from the Abjurant Armor ability.  The result?  Not many at all.


Jan 11 2015 update:  Made the Movement speed and armor index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15253.0).

Feb 14 2015 update:  Added the D&D books by publication date index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15375.0).

April 26 2015 update:  Made the Evasion index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15704.0).
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Demelain on June 25, 2013, 02:55:01 AM
You say we needed a handbook, but did we? Was the Lists of Stuff not doing it for ya? (Though I do admit, they didn't have the items there)

Anyway, from Lists of Stuff:
Sohei is in Dragon MAgazine 318, page 32. Gains Mettle at 9th level.
Denieth Warden 5, Eberron: Dragonmarked page 105
Argent Fist 8, Faiths of Eberron page 70
Kinslayer 1, Drow of the Underdark page 87
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Nanshork on June 25, 2013, 10:51:55 AM
The problem with the Lists of Stuff is that it is no longer being updated (unfortunately).
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 25, 2013, 10:54:50 AM
The Lists of Stuff handbook is nice, but as Nanshork mentioned it's no longer being updated.  Plus I do feel the community needs a quick and dirty handbook to look up for Mettle so they can reference it (and therefore know it by heart) more easily.

I'll add those other classes to the list though.  Thanks.

Speaking of the Lists of Stuff not being updated:  If you got that list from there, then it does need to be updated since the Sohei originally appeared in Oriental Adventures and was then updated to 3.5 in Dragon 318, page 34, not 32.  I'm making note of that in my redo, as well as directly checking the pages and such of all those classes.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Garryl on June 25, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
The Void Incarnate (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a) epic class gets Mettle of Fortitude and Will and their improved versions over 10 levels.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 25, 2013, 11:30:10 AM
I have added the suggestions from Demelain and Garryl, as well as added a section about asking the DM if a Ring of Mettle might be available.  Might get rid of the ring mention though since it is homebrew, albeit very easily implemented homebrew.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: kitep on June 25, 2013, 11:36:18 AM
I'm not familiar with the list of stuff handbook, but can't somebody (not me) make a new list of stuff handbook?  Start by copying the old one wholesale, then update as necessary.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Demelain on June 25, 2013, 11:50:53 AM
Huh. Didn't know it wasn't being updated anymore. A shame, I use it pretty often.

Lists of Stuff didn't have a page for the Sohei, I went and looked it up. Sorry for the page number mistake.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 10, 2013, 05:46:18 AM
Did Surreal specifically say he wasn't updating it anymore or is that just inferred because it hasn't been updated in a while?
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Demelain on July 10, 2013, 09:30:17 AM
Did Surreal specifically say he wasn't updating it anymore or is that just inferred because it hasn't been updated in a while?

Well, the "Last Update" in the first post says May 2010, and the Last Edit line at the end of the posts reads November 20, 2011. He's been on, profile says he was online just yesterday. No explicit statement, but everything points towards "not updating".

I've considered making my own - repetitive data entry will be about half my job when I'm through with college, anyway - but I'll be damned if it isn't a daunting task to look at, and what is and isn't deserving of a category is a problem all its own.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 10, 2013, 09:40:38 AM
Did Surreal specifically say he wasn't updating it anymore or is that just inferred because it hasn't been updated in a while?

Well, the "Last Update" in the first post says May 2010, and the Last Edit line at the end of the posts reads November 20, 2011. He's been on, profile says he was online just yesterday. No explicit statement, but everything points towards "not updating".

I've considered making my own - repetitive data entry will be about half my job when I'm through with college, anyway - but I'll be damned if it isn't a daunting task to look at, and what is and isn't deserving of a category is a problem all its own.

I'd advise PMing him and waiting a few days for a reply before doing so. Copying his stuff into a new thread without his permission could be considered rude.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Demelain on July 10, 2013, 09:47:41 AM
Did Surreal specifically say he wasn't updating it anymore or is that just inferred because it hasn't been updated in a while?

Well, the "Last Update" in the first post says May 2010, and the Last Edit line at the end of the posts reads November 20, 2011. He's been on, profile says he was online just yesterday. No explicit statement, but everything points towards "not updating".

I've considered making my own - repetitive data entry will be about half my job when I'm through with college, anyway - but I'll be damned if it isn't a daunting task to look at, and what is and isn't deserving of a category is a problem all its own.

I'd advise PMing him and waiting a few days for a reply before doing so. Copying his stuff into a new thread without his permission could be considered rude.

I wouldn't copy anything, I'd work from scratch. There's a lot of stuff that I wish was included in the entries, and it'd frankly be easier to work from nothing than to sort it out.
But I'm way too busy right now anyway; summer classes being so work dense and all.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 10, 2013, 07:23:50 PM
Might I recommend you guys make a separate discussion thread for the Lists of Stuff?  That way it can hopefully get the attention it needs.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Maat Mons on July 10, 2013, 08:39:59 PM
Is that ability from master specialist that basically combines mettle and evasion close enough to get a mention in this handbook? 
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 11, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
Yes, that would gain a mention.  I'll add it, and thanks for letting me know about it.
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Garryl on July 11, 2013, 04:42:49 PM
Master Specialist only works against spells, not other effects (such as traps, maneuvers, and supernatural abilities).
Title: Re: Mettle Mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 12, 2013, 04:45:27 PM
Thanks for correcting me on that.  Adding a note on it.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 01, 2013, 01:55:56 PM
I've changed this thread to be for my mini-handbooks and such.  They're small enough that I feel combining them into one thread works best.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: nijineko on September 03, 2013, 01:14:32 PM
thanks for the handbooks.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Daebu on September 20, 2013, 03:19:59 PM
I was making a Whisper Gnome Swift Hunter recently who has a 1 level dip into both Warblade and Swordsage. I naturally consulted your port of Carnivore's "ToB and ranged weapons" guide. Incidentally I think I might've found a glaring oversight:

Counter Charge (SS1) isn't listed among the useful maneuvers. Now I understand it has a listed range of "Melee Attack". However, at no point is it actually described as using a melee attack. You don't make an attack roll. You make an opposed Str or Dex check, and that's it. The flavour text is even more clear as to the action you're taking -- "With a quick sidestep..."

In fact, due to the nature of the maneuver only being useful when an opponent charges, and they're very likely to have a greater reach than you, I can't imagine that it's meant to be limited to your melee attack range but rather your opponent's. Otherwise this maneuver is entirely useless. This would be truly foolish, given that there is considerable text and weight given to what happens if you are larger or smaller than your opponent.
 
Thus the logical interpretation seems to be that this maneuver is green-lighted to use once an opponent charges and is within his melee range. You then choose one ability and an opposed roll is made, with appropriate modifiers applied. In short, it appears the authors were trying to give small, Dex-heavy types another shot at surviving Berserkergeddon.

So given these thoughts, is Counter Charge not a useful maneuver for my Dex heavy, small sized Gnome? What am I missing?
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 21, 2013, 12:57:53 AM
Based on the wording of Counter Charge (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/counter-charge--3666/) I would have to agree with your analysis.  I'll add in into the guide with a note that it likely means melee attack for the opponent, not the one actually executing the counter.

Carnivore did have a few errors in the list, by the way.  Adamantine Bones was listed previously, but I found it odd that none of the other "*** Bones" maneuvers were, so I looked at it and found that it was a melee attack just like the others, which meant I took it off.

Edit:  Counter Charge has been added with a note.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Daebu on September 23, 2013, 10:51:22 PM
And that is officially my first contribution to the handbook section of the boards. :p Thanks for the handbook by the way. It made for a significantly stronger and more flexible archer. :)
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 12, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
I've added the Aburant Armor spell index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12558.0) to the list of handbooks discussed here.  If anyone knows of more spells and can give me the book they're in, I'll be happy to add them to the list.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: snakeman830 on February 13, 2014, 11:24:09 AM
Abjurant Champion list is missing Repelling Shield from Complete Mage.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 13, 2014, 01:56:05 PM
I've added it.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 21, 2014, 04:09:19 PM
Abj Armor on the psi adaptation ...
StP Erudite can get most of those over.
Discipline Erudite doesn't help on Abj's
in general though, so those non-Wiz
spells would need to get a divine to
arcane convert trick themselves first.
Lots of monkey motion for sure.

Course StP Erudite is good enough anyway.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Gazzien on April 17, 2014, 10:39:22 AM
Mettle Mini-Handbook:
I was just looking for a way to get mettle in pathfinder (as evidenced by the question in the AAQ board), and this is what I/we found:
-Gun Tank (Gunslinger Archetype), Fort Only, level 15 (at least 1 grit point, doesn't consume them)
-Inquisitor, level 11 (medium or lighter armor, not helpless)
-Aegis' Astral Suit - Stalwart, Level 2 (one point cost, doesn't function in null-psi areas)
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 17, 2014, 12:19:05 PM
I've added the basics of those, though I would like to keep it similar to the D&D entries with a book and page number.  Might also go for links to the PF SRD though.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Gazzien on April 17, 2014, 01:30:40 PM
Don't have the books, but I'll give you links in an hour or two when I have my computer back. Posting from my phone right now, no wifi in this part of the school.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Gazzien on April 17, 2014, 11:39:32 PM
Gun Tank (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/gun-tank)
Inquisitor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor#TOC-Stalwart-Ex-)
Aegis' Astral Suit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis/astral-suits)

Code: [Select]
[url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/gun-tank]Gun Tank[/url]
[url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor#TOC-Stalwart-Ex-]Inquisitor[/url]
[url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis/astral-suits]Aegis' Astral Suit[/url]
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: zook1shoe on May 05, 2014, 07:55:55 PM
@abjurant handbook

the Sanctified One (http://dndtools.eu/classes/sanctified-one/) for Wee Jas has a similar + armor ability
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 05, 2014, 11:06:36 PM
@abjurant handbook

the Sanctified One (http://dndtools.eu/classes/sanctified-one/) for Wee Jas has a similar + armor ability

That one isn't constrained by spells though.  Any armor bonus or shield bonus counts, thus there is no need to make an index of what it would work on because it works on everything.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: zook1shoe on May 05, 2014, 11:57:20 PM
I guess that's true
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 06, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
I suppose I could add an honorable mention for it though.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 09, 2014, 05:07:58 PM
ToB and ranged weapons:

I added Defensive Rebuke (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/defensive-rebuke--3600/) to the list with a *9 next to it.  The boost doesn't say it can't be used with ranged weapons, but making an AoO usually requires a melee weapon and such because you need to threaten an enemy to make an AoO against it.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 11, 2015, 08:50:47 AM
I've made the Movement speed and armor index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15253.0).
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on January 26, 2015, 07:59:18 AM
Does anyone have a comment about the movement speed stuff?  I've been thinking about some of the things I did and it's still a bit iffy I guess.  What I ended up doing was rounding up movement speed in armor if it came on the 5 foot mark before a full cutoff.  For example, with regular armor a character with a base speed of 60 feet moves at 40 feet.  What I did was a character that has a base speed of 55 feet also moves at 40 feet.

Does anyone have any comments on this?
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: zook1shoe on February 16, 2015, 03:10:38 AM
@ 1st- and 2nd-party sources by date

were you planning putting the other 2nd party stuff in?

here are the ones i can think of... Call of Cthulhu d20, Planescape, Kalamar, Birthright, Diablo 2, Ravenloft, Warcraft d20, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Rokugan, and Dragonlance.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 16, 2015, 03:52:47 PM
I'll add more as I can find it, though right now it's not high on my priorities.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: zook1shoe on February 16, 2015, 04:23:20 PM
totally understand
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 27, 2015, 01:49:13 AM
Made the Evasion index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15704.0).
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 02, 2015, 03:40:31 PM
Niice.
Yakuza looks interesting.


SRD Generics (so isk what page in UA)
can get Evasion at level 2 and Improved Evasion at level 4
though that's with aggressive multiclassing.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#bonusFeats
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 03, 2015, 02:37:13 AM
I wasn't going to touch generics just yet, or maybe ever.
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Garryl on December 20, 2015, 02:52:14 PM
Noticed a typo. In Evasion Index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15704) under spells, you have "Aura if Evasion" instead of "Aura of Evasion".
Title: Re: Jack's mini-handbook discussion
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 29, 2017, 01:48:31 AM
Fixed.  Also fixed "Dread Fang of Loth" missing an L in both mentions.