Author Topic: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?  (Read 4165 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« on: November 11, 2011, 01:54:11 PM »
I'm running a gestalt Viking-themed campaign, and I have a former player's character hanging around as a DMPC (he is a brother to another player's character).  Right now the character is a Half-elf Druid 6//Scout 5/Ranger 1.  Due to plot reasons, I'm going to have him start taking levels in Master of the Yuirwood.  To take advantage of the spellcasting advancement that class offers, I'm going to dip a level of Wizard on the Scout side.

Given that the character already has full Druid casting, I think it will be better to give up some schools of magic to get more spells per day.  Going with Focused specialist will require that I lose access to 3 schools.  Which 3 do you think would be best.  I'm planning on Enchantment and Evocation, but can't decide on the third.

Offline Mooncrow

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 983
  • The man who will be Pirate King
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 01:57:30 PM »
I'm running a gestalt Viking-themed campaign, and I have a former player's character hanging around as a DMPC (he is a brother to another player's character).  Right now the character is a Half-elf Druid 6//Scout 5/Ranger 1.  Due to plot reasons, I'm going to have him start taking levels in Master of the Yuirwood.  To take advantage of the spellcasting advancement that class offers, I'm going to dip a level of Wizard on the Scout side.

Given that the character already has full Druid casting, I think it will be better to give up some schools of magic to get more spells per day.  Going with Focused specialist will require that I lose access to 3 schools.  Which 3 do you think would be best.  I'm planning on Enchantment and Evocation, but can't decide on the third.

Necromancy seems like a no-brainer for that build.

Offline X-Codes

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2001
  • White, Fuzzy, Sniper Rifle.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 02:04:40 PM »
IMO keep Enchantment, drop Abjuration, Evocation, and Necromancy.

Offline Basket Burner

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1072
  • I break Basket Weavers.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 02:06:51 PM »
Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy. Everything else gives you something good that isn't redundant.

Offline X-Codes

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2001
  • White, Fuzzy, Sniper Rifle.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 02:09:14 PM »
Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy. Everything else gives you something good that isn't redundant.
What does Abjuration give you?

Dispel Magic?  Druids have it.
(Mass) Resist Energy?  Druids have it.
Protection from Energy?  Druids have it.
Friendly Fire?  Druids have it.
Energy Immunity?  Pretty sure Druids have that, too.  If not, they can just turn into something that's immune to the energy type, anyway.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 03:19:54 PM »
Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy. Everything else gives you something good that isn't redundant.
What does Abjuration give you?

Dispel Magic?  Druids have it.
(Mass) Resist Energy?  Druids have it.
Protection from Energy?  Druids have it.
Friendly Fire?  Druids have it.
Energy Immunity?  Pretty sure Druids have that, too.  If not, they can just turn into something that's immune to the energy type, anyway.
Yes, druid's do have energy immunity.  But Shield and Protection from Evil would be nice buffs while in Wildshape.

I understand that in general, giving up necromancy would make a lot of sense, but there are still some goodies in that school that seem nice for a druid.  Vampiric Touch and Chill Touch are some decent add-on buffs while wildshaping. Ghoul touch wouldn't be bad either.

Spectral Hand could be useful, especially given that this DMPC and a PC Druid are the healers of the group.

Enchantment is well and truly covered within the group.  One player is a Barb//Beguiler, and the PC Druid//Sorcerer has Charm Person and maybe a few other enchantment spells.

Although I know Illusion has a lot of good stuff, none of it is really essential for what this character is.  I'm planning to have most of his spells be self-buffs or "toolbox" type spells.  So I might go with Illusion as that last school to drop.  The beguiler covers a lot of that anyway (and the Druid//Sorcerer, and the Rog//Wiz will probably pick up the invisibility line next level).

Also, this character is not meant to outshine my players; rather he will be a support character (healing, toolbox solutions, and making use of the menhir circles to ferry the party around quickly).  I just plan to have him be very good at buffing himself while wildshaped.

Offline Basket Burner

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1072
  • I break Basket Weavers.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 03:40:28 PM »
In that case most of the good necromancy spells that are appropriate to a Druid, and that aren't covered by Druid are things that don't really fit your goals. So it would be better to ban Necromancy and keep Abjuration for buffing in Wild Shape.

Offline X-Codes

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2001
  • White, Fuzzy, Sniper Rifle.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 04:02:50 PM »
RE: Prot: Evil.  Druids have Resistance/Greater Resistance/Superior Resistance, so Prot: Evil isn't giving a significant save bonus.  Sandstorm also has a spell called Halo of Sand which gives a far superior Deflection bonus to AC (it's listed in my awesome spells list) relative to Prot: Evil.  I suppose that if you want Shield, then you want Shield, but I frankly just can't imagine why.

That said, if Enchantment is covered (and it certainly looks like it is), then Evocation and Enchantment are certainly safe drops.  If you want Necromancy, then the decision is really what defensive spells you'd rather lose: Abjuration or Illusion.  I think the defensive spells from Illusion are *way* better than the ones you lose out by dropping Abjuration.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 05:28:33 PM »
I think the defensive spells from Illusion are *way* better than the ones you lose out by dropping Abjuration.
Touche.

Yeah, Mirror Image + Blur/Displacement is a better deal than shield.  This is why I ask.

Abjuration or Necro.... hmm

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2011, 10:32:25 PM »
Decided to dump Abjuration as the third school.  Here is a look at the spells I'm planning to have him pick up from leveling.  There's going to be a spot where the party finds a cache of 5 captured spellsbooks (the party wizard, who started at 5th level, has only 2 or 3 spells in his spellbook beyond those from leveling... his fault for not spending his starting wealth on it...)  Anyway, some of these spells might be in those spellbooks (I can't remember; made them up a month back), but these are the baseline I'm looking at.

Starts with 5 first-level spells (Int 14)

Spells for a Conjurer’s Spellbook (Ban Abjuration, Enchantment, Evocation)
1: Grease, Mage Armor, True Casting, Benign Transposition, Lesser Orb of Acid
   Lesser Orb of Sound, Mount
2: Web, Mirror Image
   Kelgore’s Grave Mist (PHB2), Spectral Hand
3: Dimension Step (PHB2), Vampiric Touch
   Greater Mage Armor, Displacement or Shivering Touch (FrB)?

The above will take him up to character level 11; I can look at further options after that (Evard's, etc).

Some of these are here because they mesh well with the character's other abilities (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Skirmish) and because many of the party's foes have SR, and I need to lightly demonstrate to the PC Rog//Wiz how to go about being effective (he's only sneak attacked once in ~6 sessions).  Granted, damage isn't the end-all, but he hasn't even used his touch spell/sneak attack combo yet. (A former player Rog//Cleric never put 2 and 2 together either...)

So, I tried to give him a decent smattering of battlefield control spells to supplement those from his Druid casting, as well as some toolbox-type spells (Float will most likely literally save someone's hide once they spend some more time on a longship), as well as some buffing spells and touch spells to buff his wildshapes and get easy skirmish damage.

Given that his DC's will be relatively low, I'm trying to stay with spells that don't allow saves, or have a detrimental effect on the target regardless of a successful save (such as Grease and Web).

I've only been running this PC for about one level, but I'm sure his typical Druid spell lay-out could use some work too.  Here is his typical spells prepped right now (since I took the character over they've spent nearly the whole time traveling, escorting a bunch of rescued slaves back home); it includes an array of things to deal with trolls, aid him in scouting, and heal the hurts of the party.

0 - Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic, Guidance, Virtue
1 - Entangle, Produce Flame, Lesser Vigor (x2)
2 - Barkskin, Flaming Sphere, Flame Blade, Decomposition
3 - Call Lightning, Mass Lesser Vigor, Forest Fold

Next level he'll probably start prepping Murderous Mist (large area, moves, deals not-fire damage, and can permanently blind those caught in it); it will be his only 4th level spell (Wis 16).

Critiques?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 10:49:18 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline X-Codes

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2001
  • White, Fuzzy, Sniper Rifle.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2011, 10:42:08 PM »
I might take Dispel Magic over Call Lightning, and rely on Produce Flame for ranged attacks (it's just a little weaker at this level).  Not sure I like Flame Blade, though.  At this level, Summon Swarm is still relatively good.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2011, 10:51:25 AM »
I might take Dispel Magic over Call Lightning, and rely on Produce Flame for ranged attacks (it's just a little weaker at this level).  Not sure I like Flame Blade, though.  At this level, Summon Swarm is still relatively good.
Dispel Magic is 4th level for Druid.  But Summon Swarm is quite good...

Offline Nachofan99

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2011, 11:40:03 AM »
I just played a campaign as a Focused Conjurer and normally I give up Evocation, Necromancy, Illusion.  This time I decided to give up Abjuration instead of Evocation because everyone likes to cast Magic Missile now and again.  (Yes I know Evocation is one of the weakest schools but big deal.  Anything that is not Pun-Pun is also weak.)

I hated it.  We *did* have a druid - but when we needed Dispel Magic at 5th level - the Druid does not get it until 7th.  For campaigns where you actually play through every level, it's important to get certain spells/abilities at key levels; not having Dispel Magic for 2 levels sucked.

Protection from Evil is way better than simply a +2 AC bonus.  It hedges out summoned creatures and provides immunity to mind control abilities - as a first level spell.  I did not actually miss not having it but it's solid.  As said though, others can cast it as well.

Normally: Evoc, Necromancy, Illusion or Enchantment depending on mood.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard: Focused Conjurer - best three schools to lose?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2011, 01:16:29 PM »
Your point about delayed access to Dispel Magic, while very true, doesn't apply here.  As the character is set up, he would get access to Wizard Dispel Magic 4 levels after he would get access to it as a Druid.  This also isn't the main party mage.  Everyone else is helping to cover the arcane side, so this character doesn't really need to worry about that (he wouldn't be effective at it anyway, given his delayed casting).

For reference, the other characters in the group are:
Barbarian//Warlock who uses Hideous Blow if he can't get a full attack -> biggest straight damage dealer
Barbarian//Beguiler who uses his spells first, and only rages if he's in HP trouble or the spells aren't working
Druid//Sorcerer
Rogue//Wizard

The Warlock is working toward Runescarred Berserker on the Barb side, but other than that, no one is specifically working toward any PrC's.