Author Topic: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!  (Read 46455 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #100 on: March 04, 2016, 11:18:27 AM »
Weee, been a long week.

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Offline Geigan

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2016, 01:07:19 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 03:25:31 AM by Geigan »
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #102 on: March 10, 2016, 02:05:55 AM »
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Offline Geigan

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #103 on: March 10, 2016, 06:40:16 PM »
Ok, added another clause to clear up that it's “multiple applications of the same effect” and don't stack.

Gah, that's a lot of clauses, but I guess that's what I deserve for making a school based on channeling spells.
Dang, I'll have to find a replacement for Vampiric Touch now. Probably for the best though.

I know the pain of dealing with mechanics meant to handle general/open ended systems from experience, which is why I expect I will only find more potential problem spells and loopholes in the future. Thankfully there are only so many spells that are really useful when channeled through LCM.

Btw, how do you classify weapon-like spells such as Blade of Pain and Fear, Whirling Blade, or Threesteel? (note that each of those three are somewhat different spells)
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #104 on: March 11, 2016, 01:28:31 AM »
Ok, added another clause to clear up that it's “multiple applications of the same effect” and don't stack.

Gah, that's a lot of clauses, but I guess that's what I deserve for making a school based on channeling spells.
Dang, I'll have to find a replacement for Vampiric Touch now. Probably for the best though.
I'll point out that vampiric touch gives you temp HP equal to the damage you deal, and that several LCM maneuvers increase the damage the spell deals, so there should still be good synergy.

I know the pain of dealing with mechanics meant to handle general/open ended systems from experience, which is why I expect I will only find more potential problem spells and loopholes in the future. Thankfully there are only so many spells that are really useful when channeled through LCM.

Btw, how do you classify weapon-like spells such as Blade of Pain and Fear, Whirling Blade, or Threesteel? (note that each of those three are somewhat different spells)

I don't remember the exact wording of those spells, but I believe they all need separate attack rolls before starting to deal damage, so I would classify them as non-valid, like summon monster, or wall of iron that can technically deal damage if you drop it over someone.

EDIT: Whirling blade should work. Can't find where threesteel is from.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 01:34:19 AM by oslecamo »

Offline Geigan

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #105 on: March 11, 2016, 12:06:57 PM »

I don't remember the exact wording of those spells, but I believe they all need separate attack rolls before starting to deal damage, so I would classify them as non-valid, like summon monster, or wall of iron that can technically deal damage if you drop it over someone.

EDIT: Whirling blade should work. Can't find where threesteel is from.
Threesteel is from Dragons of Faerun. Sorry, it was pretty obscure so it's probably a bad example, and it's not that different from Whirling Blade anyway. I just brought it up since it's a weird spell around the same level that I've always wanted to make work well somehow.

Something like Black Blade of Disaster might make for a more interesting question, since it's not really something you wield so much as you concentrate on. I think the definition of "separate attack rolls" as a distinguishing feature could probably use more specificity.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #106 on: March 13, 2016, 05:09:23 AM »
Black Blade of Disaster would work fine, since it attacks right away, and it won't last more than 1 round so concentration duration is not very relevant. The key aspect is if the spell deals damage right as it is being cast, or needs something else after being cast for the damage to occur. Seeked to clarify.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #107 on: March 29, 2016, 01:20:25 PM »
Does the double from Illusion Star get destroyed on taking any damage? I'd assume yes, but there's no specifying. Same for the 'what if my orbs get hit?'

For Orreries Sun, does using maneuvers through the orbs use the same action as normal? I'd expect yes, given that it's implicit in the 'as normal' bit. More importantly, what if you use the orbs for say, Dragon Meteor? That would make them move, not you, but they're normally beside you.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #108 on: March 29, 2016, 09:38:27 PM »
The clone has the same defensive statistics as the initiator, that includes HP. But that may be a bit too good, halved it.
The orbs also all have listed amounts of HP, they're destroyed when reduced to zero, that's specified in the stances and everything.

Yes, Orreries Sun doesn't change the initiation times of maneuvers.

Good point about movement, added clauses that you move with the orbs if the maneuvers would make them move.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #109 on: March 29, 2016, 09:45:25 PM »
The clone has the same defensive statistics as the initiator, that includes HP. But that may be a bit too good, halved it.

Even half HP seems too good for a swift action that doubles your firepower. You're going to burn through maneuvers, but counting as two casters for a single boost is just insanity.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #110 on: March 29, 2016, 09:51:21 PM »
Ok, made it "wink out of existence as soon as takes damage" as per your suggestion.

Offline CrazyYanmega

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #111 on: April 01, 2016, 11:02:17 PM »
A balance issue occurs once you hit epic levels. Magic Recycled Bomb+Deep Ecological Bomb+10th level casting= Everyone within a 20 ft radius getting a free Wish.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2016, 11:20:35 PM »
"Balance issue". "Epic levels". Isn't epic nothing BUT balance issues?

Offline Geigan

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #113 on: April 02, 2016, 03:58:29 AM »
Simple fix anyway. Just make sure you have to pay the XP component cost (and maybe gp component cost) for spells you use on Magic Recycled Bomb. Possibly make sure that you have to pay for each target affected by Ecological Bomb as well if AoE XP cost spells are any more problematic than regular AoE spells. Abuse via AoE versions of non-AoE spells is kind of this class/discipline in a nutshell anyway though.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2016, 11:08:22 AM »
Applied above fixes.

Offline CrazyYanmega

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2016, 05:39:56 PM »
Marisa has been retired. She became a minor noble of the kingdom, and is now a quest-giving NPC for the campaign continuation, as are all of the other PCs.

I can't even begin to imagine the crazy quests Marisa would hand out.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2016, 08:06:11 PM »
Lots of fetch quests into other kingdoms to 'borrow' stuff and lying about having permission to do so  :rolleyes

Offline CrazyYanmega

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #117 on: April 08, 2016, 10:45:41 PM »
Lots of fetch quests into other kingdoms to 'borrow' stuff and lying about having permission to do so  :rolleyes

Seeing as Marisa's bluff is usually 51 BEFORE rolling...

Offline Shadlith

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #118 on: April 27, 2016, 08:06:33 PM »
I hope this doesn't count as thread necromancy, but I had a couple minor questions about how this class works, if you're willing to answer them?

1) In the Youkai Magician thread, you noted that "Magical furnace boosts spell damage, Magical grimoire does not." Cool. But, um...

I can't see that trait in the magical furnace? Is that something from before an edit? Because as it stands, the only reference to damage is if it's enchanted with the Frost enchantment or whatever, and both of them add that to damage.

2) What does Light Sign "Luminous Strike" actually do?

I mean... it turns your spell into a gun. Okay. But the gun lasts for 1 round, and takes the same action to fire as it'd take to cast the spell. So what's the benefit of turning the spell into a gun, instead of just casting the spell directly?

I mean, take a Fireball bound into a stance. You use your swift action to channel it into Light Sign, then fire the magicannon as a standard action, thus getting a fireball at the target location.

Why not skip the swift action and just cast fireball? Are magicannon described elsewhere to do something, and I just missed them?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #119 on: April 27, 2016, 09:37:54 PM »
1) Hmm, seems like you're right. Both magical furnage and magical grimoire equally boost damage. Maybe I changed it after making that comment.

2)Luminous strike allows you to cast the spell as an attack action. Not the same action as it's take to cast the spell. So if you have Haste up and take a full attack, you can throw two fireballs plus iteratives.