Author Topic: Weapon Handbook Discussion  (Read 24673 times)

Offline Captnq

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Weapon Handbook Discussion
« on: February 26, 2013, 01:06:42 AM »
The handbook is HERE.

In order to create my ultimate guide to the many weapons that one can have in d20, I have discovered that to simply list the weapons is not enough. There are Weapon Special Abilities you can put in the weapons. There are poisons to put on the weapons. There are alchemy items that can modify weapons.

So, I have decided to break it down into sections:

Base Weapons - v2.01
Weapon Special Abilities - v3.01
Poisons - v1.03
Extrapolated WSAs - v1.01
Weapon Augment Crystals - b0.03
Exotic Materials - b0.08

b = Beta test, which means it's still in processing and not fit for release at this time.
v = Release Version

All Odd Weapons have been rolled into the base weapon file for sake of my sanity. So the Base Weapon file now includes: EVERY SINGLE WEAPON AND PIECE OF AMMO!!! Yeah, also all the poisons, all the Weapon Special Abilities, a bunch of extrapolated weapon abilities, and... stuff.

Trust me, if it's a weapon, might be shot out of a weapon, could be thrown, dropped on the ground in a threatening fashion, explode, ooze, be used to shoot you, stab you, staple you, mangle you, fold you, blind you, sicken you, disease you, or just plain kill you, it's in here.

After I take a long break, I might even start with figuring out what weird and disgusting combinations are out there. Huzzah. I'm taking a long ass break.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 11:31:35 PM by Captnq »
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 01:19:45 AM »
Reserved
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Offline Rann

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 05:37:43 AM »
Just a note: Aren't the 'mercurial greatswords' a die step higher then the greatswords? (in your pdf they are now the same, IIRC it should be 1d12/2d8)

Only thing to make the Base Weapons PDF  more perfect is a table with cost, damage, crit, weigh and type ;-)
:plotting *thinks of evil plan :plotting

Offline kitep

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 07:55:12 AM »
You also need how damage changes based on weapon size.  Eg, a weapon that does 1d10 for small or 2d6 for medium, would do large 3d6, huge 4d6, gargantuan 6d6, and colossal 8d6.


Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 12:51:15 PM »
Just a note: Aren't the 'mercurial greatswords' a die step higher then the greatswords? (in your pdf they are now the same, IIRC it should be 1d12/2d8)
In both Arms and Equipment Guide and Sword and Fist they are listed 1d10/2d6. Althought thanks for bringing it up, I found a formatting error in the entry. (Some of my previous revisions have left artifacts I missed.)

As far as I can tell, all mercurial weapons are normal swords with an upgrade from 19-20/x2 to x4 critical. You'd think being made of mercury would upgrade the damage, like with heavy weapons, but nope.

That said, if there is another more current source that I missed, I eagerly await word of it's existence. Alas, all mercurial weapons, that I know about, are 3.0. I could not find a 3.5 update. Personally, I'd have made it more like a weapon modification, like Cold Iron or something.

Only thing to make the Base Weapons PDF  more perfect is a table with cost, damage, crit, weigh and type ;-)

Alas, I've suffered from data corruption and the excel spreadsheet is screwed up. I have to go through the file and update everything and verify it against the original weapon file for accuracy. I thought about including the parts of the sheet that survived, but I didn't want it to be confusing.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 01:04:35 PM »
You also need how damage changes based on weapon size.  Eg, a weapon that does 1d10 for small or 2d6 for medium, would do large 3d6, huge 4d6, gargantuan 6d6, and colossal 8d6.

Holy crap, I left off the weapon rules section.

Well, that's why it's Version 1.08, not Version 2.01, folks. Although I'm not happy with the formating, now that I'm looking at it. I need to update the ammunition section to reflect that the Enlarge spell specifically indicates that ammunition size has no effect on damage.

Better to not release, then to release false information, that's what I say.

That said, expect the next release to correct this egregious oversight. Alas, I will not be updating the weapon section itself until I finish all the other subsections. In order to know what are the best possible combinations, one must have all the combinations at your disposal, and I simply have not found the time to bring it all together. But, let me assure you, I suspect I'll be done with the complete project in another... six months. Maybe less depending on how my overtime schedule is.

That said, I still... *twitch-twitch* have this nagging part of my brain that tells me that because shields are both weapons AND armor that I have to also include all Armor Special Abilities, and If I'm including THOSE that I should include all armors, and if I'm doing THAT I should include all Special Materials, since some apply to both weapons and armor, and... and... and...

Now you know why I suffer from mission creep.
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 05:56:40 PM »
Aren't the 'mercurial greatswords' a die step higher then the greatswords?
In both Arms and Equipment Guide and Sword and Fist they are listed 1d10/2d6.

Older printings of Sword and Fist did list the mercurial versions as having higher damage.  There's errata saying they're supposed to deal the same damage as the regular versions. 

Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 11:22:13 PM »
Aren't the 'mercurial greatswords' a die step higher then the greatswords?
In both Arms and Equipment Guide and Sword and Fist they are listed 1d10/2d6.

Older printings of Sword and Fist did list the mercurial versions as having higher damage.  There's errata saying they're supposed to deal the same damage as the regular versions.

Ah. When in doubt, I compare the publishing date of multiple entries, and for weal or for woe, the more recent printing is the one I go with.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 11:37:31 PM »
New Version Posted. Huzzah. I sleep.
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Offline Arz

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 07:22:05 PM »
Two bits:

Nimblestep - This is effectively 3 psionic feats. One of which, psionic meditation, is the basis of any psionic build.

Sword of the Pearl - Looks like a +1 ability. They appear to have got the creation cost correct then multiplied the cost of pearlsteel. Which is where there math went wrong.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 08:10:54 PM »
Two bits:

Nimblestep - This is effectively 3 psionic feats. One of which, psionic meditation, is the basis of any psionic build.

Sword of the Pearl - Looks like a +1 ability. They appear to have got the creation cost correct then multiplied the cost of pearlsteel. Which is where there math went wrong.

Oh, thanks. Updated.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 08:59:30 PM »
How do you figure that Bracers of Striking apply their WSA's to your natural attacks?  It doesn't even say they apply to your unarmed strikes.  All it says it that they can be enchanted as if they were blunt weapons. 
It seems to me like your claim takes quite a leap of logic.

This is where we run into the problem with all this 3.0 crap. Really, it doesn't clarify anything. BoS give you improved unarmed Strike. They can be enchanted as weapons, but they don't even say they do any damage. It can be modified with WSAs, but it doesn't say you can use them.

Alas, one has to ask the DM. See, if they were TRUE double weapons, I could enchant each bracer seperately, but I'm not allowed to do that. They must be enchanted equally and both raised at the same time. So, do they affect all Unarmed Strikes? Do they affect natural attacks? We don't know. But gosh darn it, you have to spend twice as much for them, they'd better do something.

It's one of those gray areas where you ask the DM and wait to see what he rules. I know how I see them. Double cost NoNW that can't be made into more then one weapon. You need to be 30th level to make a +10 version.

This goes back to my original post, ASK YOUR DM. Explain how you plan on using the item. Don't try to blind side him. You'll both be happier for it.

Alright, that makes sense.  Just the way you said it made it sound like having their WSA's apply to natural attacks was RAW, when really the thing requires DM intervention in order for the WSAs to do anything at all. 

But, I'm not sure if it's quite correct to say that you need to be a 30th level caster to make +10 Bracers.  The relevant text is "they count as a double weapon, so double the cost of any ability."  You don't need to be 30th level to create a +10/+10 quarterstaff, so why should that apply to the Bracers?  The only way I can see it working like that is if you included the CL requirement as part of the "cost" of an ability. 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 11:37:10 PM »
Ah. I haven't released the Unique Special Weapons that I cannot breakdown yet. So the BoS hasn't made the "official" handbook yet. It states in how to make BoS that you must double the cost, and since weapons have a max cost of 200,000 gp + base cost, this thing exceeds the max cost of a non-epic weapon at +7. But it also states the creator level must be three times the bonus. So +10 weapon is x 3 or 30th level. This doesn't apply to any other weapon but BoS.

It's a specific requirement for the bracers, which effectively limits their actual usefulness to +6.

In spite of this they are very useful for monks, but chances are you'll never actually enchant a pair over +4. A NoNW is just so much more useful and cost effective. Blending the two adds to a nice combination.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 12:12:44 AM »
Oh, I see. The bracers dint have the normal text that says you use the CL requirements for either the enchantment bonus or the enchantment equivalent bonus, so you have to add them to find the CL prereq.

This does cause conflicts with other rules, namely the fact that normally any item under a certain gp value should be available in a city of a certain size, even though that city probably can't support a Caster of a level high enough to actually craft this particular item.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2013, 12:19:34 AM »
Okay, I’ve finally got the base random tables done for the weapon handbook. I’m looking for feedback before I finalize this part and move onto the Random WSA tables. Forgive the formatting, the PDF will be much more cleaned up. The Masterwork version of Ammunition assumes there are 50 units of the ammo. I included the masterwork price because it isn’t always so clear cut, what with some weapons being double, or triple, or weapon/shields, or double weapon shields. So, the first is for the base weapon/ammo one unit. The next is if you are building a magic item. A WSA Random table is next on the list.

d100/the Item/Cost/Cost for Masterwork version

Quote from: MASTER RANDOM WEAPON TABLE
01-10   SIMPLE LIGHT MELEE WEAPON
11-20   SIMPLE ONE-HANDED MELEE WEAPON
21-30   SIMPLE TWO-HANDED MELEE WEAPON
31-40   SIMPLE RANGED WEAPON
41-50   SIMPLE THROWN WEAPON
51   SIMPLE LIGHT MELEE AMMUNITION
52-56   SIMPLE THROWN AMMUNITION
57-61   MARTIAL LIGHT MELEE WEAPON
62-66   MARTIAL ONE-HANDED MELEE WEAPON
67-71   MARTIAL TWO-HANDED MELEE WEAPON
72-76   MARTIAL RANGED WEAPON
77-79   EXOTIC LIGHT MELEE WEAPON
80-82   EXOTIC ONE-HANDED MELEE WEAPON
83-85   EXOTIC TWO-HANDED MELEE WEAPON
86-88   EXOTIC RANGED WEAPON
89-91   EXOTIC THROWN WEAPON
92-94   EXOTIC THROWN AMMUNITION
95   UNARMED ATTACK
96   EXOTIC UNARMED ATTACK
97   TRAP
98   AMMUNITION
99   ACCESSORY
00   APPLICATION
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If you see anything missing, or feel that a given random value is too much or too little, speak up now.
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2013, 12:50:49 AM »
Spiked Gauntlet? Would it go under Unarmed ? I can't seem to find it...

Offline linklord231

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2013, 01:01:13 AM »
Spiked Gauntlet? Would it go under Unarmed ? I can't seem to find it...

It's under Simple Light Melee.



Why do you have some categories (Unarmed, and Exotic Unarmed are the ones that jumped out at me) that only have one entry in them?
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2013, 08:29:54 AM »
Spiked Gauntlet? Would it go under Unarmed ? I can't seem to find it...

It's under Simple Light Melee.



Why do you have some categories (Unarmed, and Exotic Unarmed are the ones that jumped out at me) that only have one entry in them?

Because that's how they are listed. There is only one unarmed attack, PHB, gauntlet. But for some reason, being an unarmed attack, it still comes with damage.

Ward cestus is also an unarmed attack, but it is also listed as Exotic. It also does no damage and goes entirely off of your unarmed strike damage. As much as I'd like to make them light weapons, I can't. Originally I thought ward cestus would be supersized to allow you to use it two handed, but after checking how it's listed in sword and fist, it's clear that it's an unarmed attack.

I assume Unarmed is just another way of saying, "You can't change the size of this weapon."
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Weapon Handbook Discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2013, 08:32:58 AM »
Spiked Gauntlet? Would it go under Unarmed ? I can't seem to find it...

Nope. You'd think that, but no. Me? I'd make all Gauntlet and glove weapons "unarmed", but I'm not so confident as to make such a sweeping change.
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