Author Topic: Summoner Homebrew; where is it broken?  (Read 1829 times)

Offline vaz

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Summoner Homebrew; where is it broken?
« on: February 05, 2017, 12:38:50 PM »
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Summoner_(Fullcaster)(5e_Class)

Please excuse the wiki link. I've been asked by a player of mine who is wanting to play a Summoner build, and he showed me this. It seems a bit OP, so to tone it down, will require it to work like the Chainlock Familiar, and maybe require Concentration to order it about to represent the power level of the minion being more than equitable to a Polymorphed Familiar.

There is also an Infinite healing trick that is broken by being able.get Fast Healing and Sacrificing the monsters HP. I'm not normally a fan of such mechanics, but having it reduce current AND Maximum until it takes a Long rest seems appropriate to fix that.

How else is this breakable? I could often see things in 3.5, but 5e is just new to me so can't see the traps. I'm also vetoing Broodmaster due to the length of time they take to resolve.

Maybe also going for Paladin progression on spells (+Half speed Sorcerer Cantrips)

Rolled Stats, 14th level.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 12:40:22 PM by vaz »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Summoner Homebrew; where is it broken?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2017, 04:14:02 PM »
It seems to me like 2 separate characters.

1 is a full caster in name only, but with almost no class abilities.
The other is called "Eidolon" instead of Master Of Many Forms,
and would require a solid combing through on all those abilities.

Fused is why 3e Gestalt is weaker than 2 PCs.

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I'd say run it as is, with the PC knowing the overdeity  :tongue
has a few chaos and pique based nerfs on the way.
No guide as to how to play it better, with lots and lots (and lots)
of stuff going on, is tactically difficult.

Besides you could always target the party with 1 more mook.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Summoner Homebrew; where is it broken?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 05:22:06 PM »
Pathfinder conversions to 5e are invariably a mess because the converter can't let get of all the Pathfinder-isms.  Even if you tone that thing down to half-casting, it does the UA revised Beast conclave ranger's schtick better than that class does with no real drawbacks.  The eidolon is practically an extra barbarian under the PC's control with spellcasting backing it up.  Take away all those bonus action attacks from the eidolon.  The Grab one is ok.  Other evolutions combined with the bonus actions attached to various natural weapon types will push the eidolon too far ahead of some martial PCs without even factoring in what the summoner himself will do.  If you're generous with what you give to the martials or you don't have martials in the party, you can ignore that advice.

Constrict doesn't work the way it's written on any creature in official 5e sources.   Constrict usually is an attack with an attack roll like any other natural weapon and applies the grappled status after dealing its damage.  Often the restrained condition is attached, conditional on the grappled status being maintained.  Reference the Giant Constrictor Snake to see what I mean.

The trip is strictly superior to a Battle Master's Trip Attack since it has unlimited uses.  I'd lean towards curtailing that, since no other minion available in official 5e has a scaling DC on its unlimited trips.

Be sure you and the PC understand that by 5e's rules, the eidolon lacks the Multiattack action to make use of all those possible natural weapons.  It has one attack unless the summoner is 6th level in Bond of the Eidolist.

Try to convince him to just play a Lore bard using Magical Secrets to take the best Conjure spells from the druid and wizard lists.  It will be less of a headache.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:28:23 PM by TenaciousJ »
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