Author Topic: Troublesome Player, Take 2  (Read 32961 times)

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2011, 01:46:48 PM »
You could also point out to them that evil acts are evil, and will move your alignment in that direction, even if you're chaotic neutral.
They'd do the occasional "good" thing to balance it out. They're not taking any classes that care about alignment so if I suddenly said "you're CE", they'd just shrug and go "Excellent. Now I have even less of a conscience."

I'm not 100% concerned about everything, just looking for advice. If I absolutely have to, I'll bring back a very lawful group of beings that they met at the beginning of this cycle. They're mage hunters. They represent the law of the world. You're allowed to have magic, but you're not allowed to abuse it. If you do, these guys are sent after you. It's not just a small group either. If I had to describe them, I'd say they were "the navy" from the anime One Piece. Most of them don't worship gods, but law itself.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline TenaciousJ

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • AVENGE WAGON
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #81 on: November 22, 2011, 03:10:07 PM »
You're the DM.  It's trivial for a DM to make in-game actions that show the consequences of PC behavior.  Appropriately shitty actions can be rewarded with consequences that have increasing CR to the point the players need to reconsider their course (assuming you don't just kill them).

I have to agree with Weenog.  Even "This isn't fun for me to DM." should be a sufficient statement to get these players to reconsider their actions if they're actually your friends.
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #82 on: November 22, 2011, 03:16:20 PM »
You're the DM.  It's trivial for a DM to make in-game actions that show the consequences of PC behavior.  Appropriately shitty actions can be rewarded with consequences that have increasing CR to the point the players need to reconsider their course (assuming you don't just kill them).

I have to agree with Weenog.  Even "This isn't fun for me to DM." should be a sufficient statement to get these players to reconsider their actions if they're actually your friends.
Well, another part of the problem is my lack of experience. If our Friday group told the DM tomorrow, "we're all going to be evil next campaign", it's done. No question or hesitation. He'll have it up and ready to go. Heck, we've got three evil party members in the group in this cycle, two of them being CE. He's perfectly happy with that, and has adjusted the campaign accordingly. He knows what the tiefling and incubus are going to do and not do, and tries to convince them to join missions using reasons that they are happy with. Then again his campaign world is ruled essentially ruled by a pit fiend, and an undead demon.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3618
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #83 on: November 23, 2011, 01:02:48 AM »
You could also point out to them that evil acts are evil, and will move your alignment in that direction, even if you're chaotic neutral.
They'd do the occasional "good" thing to balance it out. They're not taking any classes that care about alignment so if I suddenly said "you're CE", they'd just shrug and go "Excellent. Now I have even less of a conscience."

I'm not 100% concerned about everything, just looking for advice. If I absolutely have to, I'll bring back a very lawful group of beings that they met at the beginning of this cycle. They're mage hunters. They represent the law of the world. You're allowed to have magic, but you're not allowed to abuse it. If you do, these guys are sent after you. It's not just a small group either. If I had to describe them, I'd say they were "the navy" from the anime One Piece. Most of them don't worship gods, but law itself.

Solution: explain to them that Dungeons & Dragons is about having fun, both for the players and the Dungeon Master.  You are uncomfortable with the disturbing focus on rape and sadism enacted by the players. and that it makes DMing a nightmare for you.  Don't send minions, monsters, groups, or other stuff like that; you're giving them what they want, and may get to torture more NPCs that way.  Tell them "This just isn't fun for me.  If you continue to engage in this sort of sick BS then I'm not playing anymore.  I don't want to do something I'm not enjoying."  No fights, no climatic battle, no more loot or experience points.  No description of what happens to their characters.  Just an end to the game.

You mentioned earlier in your posts that the God-born of Thor player is interested in role-playing characters of good alignment.  If it comes down to it, have games with her instead if she doesn't engage in disruptive behavior.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 01:04:37 AM by Libertad »

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #84 on: November 23, 2011, 01:04:58 AM »
No, just the Thor-born player is considering good. The paladin player, now that he knows I won't take the BS from him anymore, actually started the "Next cycle, let's be CN and have no gods to worship unless they're CN or evil so we don't have nearly as many consequences."
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #85 on: November 23, 2011, 01:06:27 AM »
You know, you can turn the tables by having them captured and raped repeatedly with unlubricated objects.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3618
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #86 on: November 23, 2011, 01:07:13 AM »
No, just the Thor-born player is considering good. The paladin player, now that he knows I won't take the BS from him anymore, actually started the "Next cycle, let's be CN and have no gods to worship unless they're CN or evil so we don't have nearly as many consequences."

Sorry I missed that; mistake on my part.

Still, stick to your guns and tell them you just can't take it anymore.  The DM seat is not meant to be a chore.

You know, you can turn the tables by having them captured and raped repeatedly with unlubricated objects.

If you do that, you'll come off as a hypocrite and just spread around resentment among the players.

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2011, 01:08:07 AM »
You know, you can turn the tables by having them captured and raped repeatedly with unlubricated objects.
What's funny is that one of the players (the one who's going to be the pyromaniac) indirectly showed me exactly what god to use against them. The goddess of revenge. If you pull this crap enough times, people will band against you as a collective, and come for your heads. Having a god on their side powering them up the entire time is only going to make things worse for you.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2011, 01:09:22 AM »
You know, you can turn the tables by having them captured and raped repeatedly with unlubricated objects.

If you do that, you'll come off as a hypocrite and just spread around resentment among the players.
Fuck 'em.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2011, 01:10:46 AM »
You know, you can turn the tables by having them captured and raped repeatedly with unlubricated objects.

If you do that, you'll come off as a hypocrite and just spread around resentment among the players.
Fuck 'em.
I'll just tell them a wizard did it. Or a cleric of the goddess of revenge. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have been the pot calling the kettle black.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3618
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #90 on: November 23, 2011, 01:12:57 AM »
You know, you can turn the tables by having them captured and raped repeatedly with unlubricated objects.

If you do that, you'll come off as a hypocrite and just spread around resentment among the players.
Fuck 'em.

This can work against him.  They can go to other players in the area, tell them "Kevin Video's into some sick shit, he had our characters get raped in his game as a personal vendetta!"

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #91 on: November 23, 2011, 01:14:56 AM »
This can work against him.  They can go to other players in the area, tell them "Kevin Video's into some sick shit, he had our characters get raped in his game as a personal vendetta!"
Wouldn't be the first time my name would be mud in the gaming community as a DM. The only problem I'd have in the end is that two of my players also game on Fridays as well. Could be a bit of hostility in that, but I'd think they'd be mature enough not to do anything childish like holding a grudge.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline solara

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • this hurts my physics
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2011, 03:06:10 AM »
This can work against him.  They can go to other players in the area, tell them "Kevin Video's into some sick shit, he had our characters get raped in his game as a personal vendetta!"
Wouldn't be the first time my name would be mud in the gaming community as a DM. The only problem I'd have in the end is that two of my players also game on Fridays as well. Could be a bit of hostility in that, but I'd think they'd be mature enough not to do anything childish like holding a grudge.

Right. No. These players have shown, as far as I have seen, that they are EXACTLY the sort of players to hold grudges. Either way, though, the game needs to be brought under control. I agree with laying all your cards on the table - and if you're not okay with playing an evil game (and most new DM's really shouldn't touch anything like that) then tell them that. Period. Stop. End of conversation. They are welcome to play with you on the condition that they play the game that YOU want to play too. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just the DM.

And, for what it's worth, if ANY players in ANY of my games (except an evil or other game where such things had ALREADY BEEN AGREED TO at the BEGINNING of the game) tried to pull this - especially rape - well, I'd go completely bonkers and apeshit on them. Not cool. Maybe what you need to have with them is a discussion about consent, consensual sex, and how rape =/= cool. And, in fact, how rape often leads to things like revenge, or being assaulted by The Most Prepared Woman in the World (trigger warning for attempted rape and "taking aholt"). Oh, and then there's prison.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 03:07:48 AM by solara »

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2011, 03:13:07 AM »
Prison means officers, which to them means more cannon fodder to give them xp. Granted I'd make sure they were pretty much the most broken law officials ever, but not so bad that they cried foul on me.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline solara

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • this hurts my physics
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2011, 03:22:52 AM »
Then just let them encounter Curtisene. I'm fairly certain that is an auto-hit, no-save, no-SR ability. Anyway, my point about not taking that sort of stuff in your campaign stands. If you're not having fun, the game isn't going right.

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2011, 03:24:20 AM »
Well I'm definitely going to talk to them and lay down some ground rules when the next campaign gets closer. I want them to have fun too, but I also need for them to meet me halfway.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #96 on: November 23, 2011, 12:30:02 PM »
Well I'm definitely going to talk to them and lay down some ground rules when the next campaign gets closer. I want them to have fun too, but I also need for them to meet me halfway.
I feel grateful for my extremely fun and understanding group now.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline archangel.arcanis

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #97 on: November 23, 2011, 12:34:14 PM »
Kevin your group sounds like instead of a gaming session you need to have a surprise intervention for them. They sound like they have some serious issues and are acting out on them in game.

Offline kevin video

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Hail to the King baby!
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #98 on: November 23, 2011, 12:36:46 PM »
Kevin your group sounds like instead of a gaming session you need to have a surprise intervention for them. They sound like they have some serious issues and are acting out on them in game.
They probably do. One person's new, two are from the Friday game, and the others haven't gamed in years. Could be a lot of pent up frustration. I thought I was handling that by letting them dictate that this campaign was going to be heavy on the hitting and light on the story (their suggestion). Would probably help if they could actually hit the monsters though. I'm not even making the AC all that high. They just didn't build their characters properly.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Offline archangel.arcanis

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
Re: Troublesome Player, Take 2
« Reply #99 on: November 23, 2011, 05:14:07 PM »
Kevin your group sounds like instead of a gaming session you need to have a surprise intervention for them. They sound like they have some serious issues and are acting out on them in game.
They probably do. One person's new, two are from the Friday game, and the others haven't gamed in years. Could be a lot of pent up frustration. I thought I was handling that by letting them dictate that this campaign was going to be heavy on the hitting and light on the story (their suggestion). Would probably help if they could actually hit the monsters though. I'm not even making the AC all that high. They just didn't build their characters properly.
Rape and sodomy go beyond pent up frustration. This is so over the top I would expect it to be a plot on Criminal Minds.