Eternal wands and normal wands.

[Yirrare]

So as I get it, the differences are the following:

Wand:

• Spells of level ≤4
• Can have varying caster level
• Arcane or divine spells possible
• Can be used without UMD only if spell is in class list
• Cost is 750*[spelllevel]*[casterlevel]
• 50 charges - No limit on uses per day

Eternal wand:

• Spells of level ≤3
• Static caster level (CL = [spelllevel]*2-1 (min 1)?)
• Only arcane spells possible
• Can be used without UMD for any arcane caster
• Cost is static (MIC p. 159)
• 2 uses/day - Unlimited charges

Am I missing something, or reading something wrong?
Also, is there an upper level for the casterlevel of a wand?

Best Regards
Yirrare

Edited to add the 50 charges vs. 2/day, which I can't see why I forgot. 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't think eternal wands have to be a static CL if you want to pay for higher...

There is no upper CL limit for a wand.  Beyond 20 might be iffy, depending on DM.

Otherwise looks good.  Of course, the most important difference is Eternal Wands are 2/day and never run out otherwise; while as wands have 50 charges and then run out, but you could blow as many of them in a day as you want.

[darqueseid]

I think eternal wands are treated as having an unlimited amount of charges right?  but are only usable 2/day.

I thought it worked that way because an incantatrix can abuse an eternal wand pretty nicely, that is persist any 3rd level or lower spell they have in a wand when they get the metamagic spell-trigger ability(with infinite charges)... at least I thought the incantrix could do that....

[Yirrare]

I don't think eternal wands have to be a static CL if you want to pay for higher...

There is no upper CL limit for a wand.  Beyond 20 might be iffy, depending on DM.

Otherwise looks good.  Of course, the most important difference is Eternal Wands are 2/day and never run out otherwise; while as wands have 50 charges and then run out, but you could blow as many of them in a day as you want.

Thanks for the reply.
Do you have any source or formula for the price of an eternal wand with varying caster levels? My short internet search came up empty...

*Facepalm* How could I forget to add the 2/day or 50 charges part!? I agree with you, that is a very important difference. XD

Kindly
Yirrare

[kitep]

Do you have any source or formula for the price of an eternal wand with varying caster levels? My short internet search came up empty...

Looks like the formula is   price = [ 720 * (spell level) * (caster level) ] + 100   where 0-level counts as 1/2-level

Though if you're going to use this in a way not actually laid out in the book, I'd go with
price = [ 720 * (spell level) * (caster level) ] + [48 * (material component cost) ] + [ 48 * 5 * (xp cost) ] + 100

ie, price = [ (price of 50-charge wand) * 720/750 ] + 100

[Kethrian]

And then there's staffs.  If you make a single spell staff, you're basically just making a wand that can take higher than 4th level spells, and which gains the other bonuses of letting you use your own CL, plus your ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for it.  I think the price works out to the same formula for wands, too, other than the +600gp for a MW quarterstaff, which you could drop if you use the alternate magic item rules from CA (you just need to also have the Craft Wondrous Item feat).

[kitep]

Agreed.  The catch to a staff is that you have to use a minimum caster level 8 when you set the caster level.  Since the OP was asking about higher caster levels, this should work for him.  And since you can add a 2nd spell at 75% cost, and a 3rd and more at 50% cost, things are good.

The DMG p284 lists the price of the MW quarterstaff you need at 300gp.  Guess it doesn't have to be a double weapon.

[Kethrian]

Either that or the writer completely forgot that they are double weapons....

[Captnq]

Eternal Wands have no formula. I tried to reverse engineer them for an hour.

Here. Go to the back of the DM's guide. Make a Wonderious Item. Spell usable twice a day. Throw in the cost to make it do the exact same spell as an eternal wand. See which is cheaper.

[Kethrian]

Let's see... command activated, so base 1800.  0 level spell... 900*2/5... 360gp.
1st level spell... 1800*2/5... 720gp.
2nd level spell... 4320gp.
3rd level spell... 10,800gp.

Eternal wands have a +100gp cost on top of everything I just calculated.  Interesting.  Therefore they do have a formula, but I have no idea why there should be a +100gp cost.  Should be a -100gp cost per spell level, given the arcane caster only restriction... (or a -10%, but whatever)

[kitep]

Eternal Wands have no formula. I tried to reverse engineer them for an hour.

The +100 does not make it easy.

I used the 2 equations 2 unknowns math way

(click to show/hide)

price = X * (caster level) * (spell level) + Y

for 1st level
820 = X * (1) * (1) + Y
X = 820 - Y

for 2nd level
4420 = X * (3) * (2) + Y
4420 = 6 * ( 820 - Y) + Y
4420 = 4920 - 6Y + Y
5Y = 500
Y = 100
X = 820 - Y
X = 720

so,
Price = 720 * (caster level) * (spell level) + 100
I tried it for 0 level and 3rd level, and it works.

Here. Go to the back of the DM's guide. Make a Wonderious Item. Spell usable twice a day. Throw in the cost to make it do the exact same spell as an eternal wand. See which is cheaper.

While I was doing that, Kethrian posted my conclusion.

[sirpercival]

Let's see... command activated, so base 1800.  0 level spell... 900*2/5... 360gp.
1st level spell... 1800*2/5... 720gp.
2nd level spell... 4320gp.
3rd level spell... 10,800gp.

Eternal wands have a +100gp cost on top of everything I just calculated.  Interesting.  Therefore they do have a formula, but I have no idea why there should be a +100gp cost.  Should be a -100gp cost per spell level, given the arcane caster only restriction... (or a -10%, but whatever)

Eternal wands first appeared in the Eberron Campaign Setting.  From "Crafting Eberron Shard Items":

For an item such as an eternal wand, the cost of attuning the shard is added to the cost to create the item, and its equivalent market value (100 gp) is added to the market price of the item.

They carried this over into MIC without explaining it.

[Yirrare]

Thank all of you for the replies.
Having a formula for the eternal wands is great. The tip about the staves were also great. However, some new questions did arise.

Is it stated anywhere that eternal wands can have varying caster level?
(If not) Is is stated anywhere what the caster level is on an eternal wand?
I take it I might find some answer for this in "Crafting Eberron Shard Items", but sadly I do not have access to it.

About staves, the DMG says it uses the users caster level, but it has no information or formula on the price for the creation of a staff (apart from the specific staves found there).
The SRD, on the other hand, have a formula for creating staves. But the fact that this formula include the creators caster level confuses me. Especially since to me, considering the caster level is not "inserted" into the staff, a powerful magician should be able to create a staff for less money than a mediocre magician...
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Kindly
Yirrare

[Kethrian]

About the staves, you have to have a minimum CL of 8, or the minimum required to cast the spell, whichever is higher, for determining price.  You then can use either that CL, or your own, when casting from the staff.

For eternal wands, the caster level is on the table, CL 1 for 0 and 1st lv spells, 3 for 2nd, and 5 for 3rd.  But since we know the formula for making them (shown earlier), it can easily be changed.

[Yirrare]

About the staves, you have to have a minimum CL of 8, or the minimum required to cast the spell, whichever is higher, for determining price.  You then can use either that CL, or your own, when casting from the staff.

For eternal wands, the caster level is on the table, CL 1 for 0 and 1st lv spells, 3 for 2nd, and 5 for 3rd.  But since we know the formula for making them (shown earlier), it can easily be changed.

Ah. That seems very logical. 

Thank you all for helping me figuring this out. 

Best regards
Yirrare

[kitep]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with Kethrian (sorry).

For staves, you set the saving throw DC as if the wielder were casting the spell (DMG, p 214).  Everything else is based off the caster level used to create the staff.

For example, a 10th level wizard with 20 Int casts a fireball from a staff that was created using CL8.  It's still an 8d6 fireball.  Max range is still 720' (400 + 8 * 40).  But the saving throw is DC 18 (10 + 3 (spell level) + 5 (wizard's INT bonus)).  The same spell cast from a wand would only have a DC 14 (10 + 3 (spell level) + 1 (INT 13 is all you need to cast it)).

Feats that increase the saving throw DC (eg Spell Focus) also count when casting from a staff.

I'm not even sure why the DMG lists using the caster level in setting the save DC from a staff since CL is not involved.  I'd let you use your own CL for overcoming SR, but that's a house rule, not RAW.  Maybe it's a holdover from 3.0?

[Kethrian]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with Kethrian (sorry).

For staves, you set the saving throw DC as if the wielder were casting the spell (DMG, p 214).  Everything else is based off the caster level used to create the staff.

For example, a 10th level wizard with 20 Int casts a fireball from a staff that was created using CL8.  It's still an 8d6 fireball.  Max range is still 720' (400 + 8 * 40).  But the saving throw is DC 18 (10 + 3 (spell level) + 5 (wizard's INT bonus)).  The same spell cast from a wand would only have a DC 14 (10 + 3 (spell level) + 1 (INT 13 is all you need to cast it)).

Feats that increase the saving throw DC (eg Spell Focus) also count when casting from a staff.

I'm not even sure why the DMG lists using the caster level in setting the save DC from a staff since CL is not involved.  I'd let you use your own CL for overcoming SR, but that's a house rule, not RAW.  Maybe it's a holdover from 3.0?

DMG p. 243, in Staff Descriptions: Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff.

So in your example, the fireball would do 10d6 fire damage, have a range of 800', and a save DC of 18 (20 with Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Evocation).

[kitep]

I stand corrected.  Thanks.