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Topics - awaken_D_M_golem

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41
Off Topic Fun / 1st Chess , then Go , now US Air Force , when D&D ?
« on: February 01, 2016, 05:16:30 PM »
Wired's write-up (usually positivist about)
http://www.wired.com/2016/01/googles-go-victory-is-just-a-glimpse-of-how-powerful-ai-will-be/

A real expert's review of the "GoBot" :  (warning this is very long go-specific)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHRHUHW6HQE

(edit flipped the two links)


Discuss ...


42
D&D 5e / SRD ... "dial up" the C.O.
« on: January 15, 2016, 03:30:53 PM »
The http://www.5esrd.com is here. 
It's bigger than Basic, but smaller than the PHB.
Races have only 1 subtype.
Backgrounds are that much more obviously a handwave.
Classes have only 1 subtype.
Skills are tucked away, but mostly in effect.
Feats are gone, except the errata'd Grappler.
Spell lists are smaller, but not necessarily worse off.
1/3rd casters aren't there.
etc
Magic Item Crafting would be a really good idea ... hint hint.

So have at it.  What works?
I know this is c.o. re-tie-ing one hand behind your back


Gnome Wizard 20
Int 15+2 Dex 15 Con 15+1 , S W Cha 8s
Arcana , Insight , Perception , Stealth or Acrobatics
4) ... Int +1 / Dex +1
8) ... Int +2
train in History at some point around here, espcially if hankering for that artificer thingy
12) ... Dex +2
16) ... Dex +2
19) ... Wis +2
At level 3 start crafting stuff.
Any rare consumable you get, sell it,
make 2 uncommons out of the gold.

Going with Int 14+2 , Dex 14 , Con 15+1 , Wis 12 , would
allow a (+2) mod on wis from 1 to 18, and +1 for 19 and 20,
while being (-1) mod on dex from 4 to 18.  I'm favoring the
whole pile of dex stuff over wis saves, but homegames differ.

Haven't combed through the spell list(s) quite yet.

43
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Appraise , what-can-you-do-with
« on: January 09, 2016, 03:53:04 PM »
 :???

Red Dragon Shaman 3 is exploitable.
Red—Treasure Seeker (Ex): You gain a +5 competence bonus on Appraise and Search checks (always active).
... "(always active)"  is not the usual wording for a +X bonus to a skill check. 
This implies a certain amount of "always on" different and better than normal.
At level 13, DS can extend this to allies within 30 feet.
Kinda interesting.

Disciple Of Mammon 7 , ecl 11 (ecl 8 with Rebuilding)
using the Enhance Value ability for 1 hour boosts
an items gp value by 1% per point of the check result.
Doubling wbl is a yawner normally, and this is.
However, skills can get some interesting t.o. going
which can get a 10:1 like "The Enabler", or even more.


What else ?
 :)

44
Min/Max 3.x / ignore / reposted at FF 2nd party
« on: December 30, 2015, 03:15:51 PM »
idk if there ever was one of these for DL.


The Master is a semi-npc class. 
I've googled very few references to it.
http://guilesworld.com/role-playing-games-stuff/dragonlance/master/

The Profession knacks can gets you :
Faithful Aide ... cohort equivalent at level 4
Skilled Team ... leadership army composed of Experts (!)

WOW.
Otherwise it's closer to Expert than a bad Rogue.


edit --- oh right there was this thread
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12131.0


EDIT 2 --- uh right Arz ignore this thread I'll repost over there.


45
Off Topic Fun / "modern" X-mas gifts
« on: December 20, 2015, 03:35:31 PM »
Ho ho (thud)


46
D&D 5e / Out Of The Abyss , adventure map
« on: November 28, 2015, 02:37:37 PM »
This is on the wotc web site, but the ENWorld version is more insta- accessible.
 :clap ... and funny.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72102&d=1448559332

47
Gaming Advice / Wording on variant Bestow Curse?
« on: November 25, 2015, 03:37:46 PM »
There was a discussion in Fun Finds 6, about
the DMag #348 variant of Greater Bestow Curse.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13562.msg284650#msg284650


Q1 ... Is that the correct wording?

Q2 ... when do you think a local small semi- magic mart, get access?

"Q" 3 ... uhh Wizard with 5e armor hi-jinks ?

48
General D&D Discussion / Illusionist or Necromancer Verbs the School
« on: November 04, 2015, 04:08:52 PM »
Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
 
       Abjurers abjure
       Conjurers conjure
       Diviners divine
       Enchanters enchant
       Evokers evoke
       Illusionists ...?
       Necromancers ...?
       Transmuters transmute

So what is it that Illusionists + Necromancers do ?!
 :???

49
Off Topic Fun / Mexico v Worst Hurricane on Record
« on: October 23, 2015, 05:42:44 PM »
Holy snot, they're gonna get clobbered worse than Katrina on New Orleans.
Send good thoughts, prayers, condolences etc
200+ mph (320 kph) winds and 880 millibar pressure are unbelievable.

I was looking at it Wed night as a Cat 1 going over near 90* water
and thought well that might be bad, but this is just incredible.

from --> http://www.startribune.com/catastrophic-category-5-hurricane-patricia-pushing-toward-manzanillo-and-puerto-vallarta-mexico-possibly-strongest-hurricane-ever-observed/336315371/


50
Min/Max 3.x / [Archive] ... What is the Most Powerful Psionic Power?
« on: September 25, 2015, 04:39:14 PM »
kudos to Haldrik and the gang.
Circa late '04 to mid '05 ; with no CPsi in it.
old address http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/946531



What is the most powerful psionic power?


1-Point Powers
1st-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!


Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Hammer
Float
Astral Traveler

Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive
Know Direction and Location
Detect Teleportation
Distract
Empathy
Telempathic Projection
Conceal Thoughts
Catfall
My Light
Sense Link
Attraction
Destiny Dissonance
Demoralize
Deceleration
Daze, Psionic
Disable
Déjà Vu
Burst

Melee Suicide — Least Useful for Psion, Not Bad for Wilder, Good for PsyWar and Psicrystal
(Doesn't Augment Well)
Bite of the Wolf
Expansion

Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Grip of Iron
Claws of the Beast
Call Weaponry
Metaphysical Weapon
Metaphysical Claw
Stomp
Prevenom
Prevenom Weapon
Dissipating Touch

Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Compression
Call to Mind
Chameleon
Synesthete
Control Object
Mindlink
Skate
Precognition
Control Light
Grease, Psionic
Create Sound
Far Hand
Minor Creation, Psionic
Matter Agitation
Entangling Ectoplasm
Force Screen
Detect Psionics

Not Bad (Augments Well)
Bolt
Empty Mind
Thicken Skin
Control Flames
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive

Good (Augments Well)
Inertial Armor
Ecto Protection
Charm, Psionic
Mind Thrust

Very Good (Augments Well)
Energy Ray
Crystal Shard
Vigor
Astral Construct



3-Point Powers
2nd-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!


Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive, Mass
Object Reading

Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Sense Link, Forced
Inflict Pain
Aversion
Tongues, Psionic
Bestow Power
Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions
Brain Lock
Elfsight (Spot and Search)
Repair Damage, Psionic
Empathic Transfer
Sustenance
Id Insinuation

Melee Suicide (Doesn't Augment Well)
Painful Strike
Prowess
Mental Disruption

Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Dissolving Touch
Strength of My Enemy
Energy Push
Dissolving Weapon
Psionic Lion’s Charge
Swarm of Crystals

Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Scent, Psionic
Detect Hostile Intent
Knock, Psionic
Control Air
Concealing Amorpha
Wall Walker
Levitate, Psionic
Share Pain
Clairvoyant Sense
Cloud Mind
Dimension Swap
Identify, Psionic

Not Bad (Augments Well)
Psionic Repair Damage
Recall Agony
Thought Shield

Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Read Thoughts

Good (Augments Well)
Biofeedback
Suggestion, Psionic

Very Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Control Sound

Very Good (Augments Well)
Concussion Blast (Psionic Magic Missile)
Energy Missile
Ego Whip
Energy Adaptation, Specified
Energy Stun
Animal Affinity



5-Point Powers
3rd-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!


Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Mind Trap
Ubiquitous Vision

Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Darkvision, Psionic
Crisis of Breath
Share Pain, Forced
Energy Retort

Less Useful (Augments Well)
Energy Burst
Body Ajustment

Melee Suicide (Doesn't Augment Well)
Graft Weapon
Duodimensional Claw
Keen Edge, Psionic
Claws of the Vampire
Vampiric Blade

Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Empathic Transfer, Hostile

Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Danger Sense
Eradicate Invisibility
Dismiss Ectoplasm
Exhalation of the Black Dragon
Escape Detection
Mental Barrier
Concealing Amorpha, Greater
False Sensory Input
Energy Wall

Not Bad (Augments Well)
Body Purification
Telekinetic Thrust
Telekinetic Force

Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Solicit Psicrystal
Ectoplasmic Form
Touchsight
Hustle
Fate Link
Astral Caravan
Dimension Slide

Good (Augments Well)
Energy Bolt
Psionic Blast
Ectoplasmic Cocoon

Very Good (Augments Well)
Time Hop
Dispel Psionics
Energy Cone



7-Point Powers
4th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!


Least Useful (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Quintessence

Less Useful (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Personality Parasite
Power Leech
Correspond
Trace Teleport
Anchored Navigation

Melee Suicide (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Immovability
Claw of Energy
Weapon of Energy
Truevenom
Truevenom Weapon
Psychic Vampire

Not Bad (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Detect Remote Viewing
Mindlink, Thieving
Aura Sight
Modify Memory, Psionic
Energy Adaptation
Dimensional Anchor, Psionic
Divination, Psionic
Inertial Barrier

Not Bad (Augments Well)
Mindwipe
Dominate, Psionic
Empathic Feedback
Intellect Fortress
Telekinetic Maneuver

Good (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Steadfast Perception
Freedom of Movement, Psionic
Remote Viewing
Fabricate, Psionic
Dismissal, Psionic
Death Urge
Wall of Ectoplasm
Dimension Door, Psionic
Fly, Psionic

Very Good (Augments Well)
Control Body
Energy Ball

Very Good (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Schism
Metamorphosis

Broken ;) (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Psychic Reformation
Take it every time to swap out your abilities including itself.



9-Point Powers
5th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!

Least Useful
Shatter Mind Blank

Less Useful
Leech Field
Metaconcert
Catapsi
Ectoplasmic Shambler
Incarnate
Restore Extremity

Melee Suicide
Psychofeedback

Not Bad
Baleful Teleport (A)
Psychic Crush
Fiery Discorporation

Good
Adapt Body
Second Chance
Hail of Crystals
Energy Current (A)
Plane Shift, Psionic
Mind Probe
Major Creation, Psionic   Good
Tower of Iron Will (A)
Teleport, Psionic

Very Good
Clairtangent Hand (A)
Teleport Trigger
Psionic Revivify
True Seeing, Psionic
Power Resistance



11-Point Powers
6th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!

Least Useful
Suspend Life
Fuse Flesh
Remote View Trap
Overland Flight, Psionic
Aura Alteration
Co-Opt Concentration
Cloud Mind, Mass

Less Useful
Mind Switch
Banishment, Psionic

Melee Suicide
Form of Doom
Dispelling Buffer

Not Bad
Breath of the Black Dragon
Precognition, Greater
Disintegrate, Psionic

Good
Restoration, Psionic
Contingency, Psionic

Very Good
Retrieve
Crystalize
Null Psionics Field
Fabricate, Greater Psionic
Temporal Acceleration



13-Point Powers
7th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!


Least Useful - not worth a 7th-level power
Phase Door, Psionic
Ethereal Jaunt, Psionic

Less Useful
Divert Teleport
Energy Conversion
Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass
Crisis of Life
Insanity

Melee Suicide
Sequester, Psionic
Ultrablast

Not Bad
Decerebrate

Good
Reddopsi
Dream Travel
Energy Wave
Fate of One

Very Good
Fission
Moment of Prescience, Psionic



15-Point Powers
8th-level Psionic Powers from the worst ... to the best!


Least Useful
Time Hop, Mass

Less Useful
Fusion

Not Bad
Matter Manipulation
Mind Seed
Iron Body, Psionic

Good
Hypercognition
Shadow Body
Recall Death
True Metabolism
Teleport, Psionic, Greater

Very Good
Telekinetic Sphere, Psionic
Mind Blank, Psionic
Astral Seed
Bend Reality



17-Point Powers
9th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!


Least Useful
Etherealness, Psionic
Apopsi
Assimilate

Less Useful
Timeless Body
Mind Switch, True

Not Bad
Affinity Field
Teleportation Circle, Psionic
Time Regression

Good
True Creation
Tornado Blast
Psychic Chirurgery
Microcosm

Very Good
Genesis
Metafaculty
Metamorphosis, Greater
Reality Revision



Each and every power is better than the one above it. If you see one that you feel is out of order, post it and say which two powers it should go between.



**



What is the most powerful psionic damage power?


Damage Powers
From the Worst ... to the Best!


Less Useful
Energy Burst (3)
Ahhh, the fire is so friendly.

Melee Suicide — Least Useful for Psion, Not Bad for Wilder, Good for PsyWar and Psicrystal
Sure, go right up there and touch it. Good luck with that, by the way.
Dissipating Touch (1)
Assimilate (9)
Swarm of Crystals (2)

Mindaffecting — Good at Low Levels, Less Useful at Mid, Least Useful at High
A. If you have an awesome brain, your immune. B. If you don't have a brain, your immune. C. If either A or B doesn't apply, you're immune.
Recall Agony (2)
Mind Thrust (1)
Psychic Crush (5)
Ultrablast (7)
Crisis of Life (7)
Recall Death (8)

Not Bad
Exhalation of the Black Dragon (3)
Energy Bolt (3)
Baleful Teleport (5)
Energy Push (2)

Good
Hail of Crystals (5)
Concussion Blast (Psionic Magic Missile) (2)
Energy Cone (3)
Breath of the Black Dragon (6)
Energy Current (5)
Energy Ball (4)
Disintigrate, Psionic (6)
Energy Wave (7)
Tornado Blast (9)

Very Good
Energy Missile (not the good kind ;) ) (2)
High DC, massive damage ... on the foes, not the ally.
Energy Stun (2)
Hit 'em again and again and again. They can't do nothin'!
Energy Ray (1)
No save, massive damage.
Crystal Shard (1)
No save, massive damage, ... no psi resistance.



Each and every power is better than the power before it. If you think that one of the powers is out of order, post your comments. Name the power and tell which two powers it should go between.

51
General D&D Discussion / ~archive ... Beholder pics floating around wotc
« on: September 24, 2015, 05:25:32 PM »
"floating" as in both literally and figuratively
my save skills are rather substandard on these ...









... and same neighborhood, a personal fave


52
by JulesCarv
I think I can fit this into 1 post, but maybe not, so wait a smidge ...

**

Minimizing caster level: why would anyone want to do such a thing? The idea is that an artificer's item-creation abilities are caster-level based. As such, an artificer who goes by the minimum caster level of a cleric can't scribe a scroll of miracle until level 15 -- but going by other classes, they might get it sooner. Here's what I've come up with so far.

Cleric spells -- accessible to an ur-priest. Caster level = spell level, if the ur-priest has no spellcasting before entering the prestige class, or cleric spellcasting. (5th level spells have minimum caster level 5, etc).

Domain spells -- accessible to a divine crusader. One again, Caster level = spell level.

Sorcerer/Wizard spells -- here, things get a bit more confusing. There are two ways of getting high spell-level/low caster-level spells here.

A bard/sublime chord gets accelerated casting. Since this is a silly theoretical optimization exercise, we might as well push it as far as we can: let's take an illumian bard 1/rogue 9 with precocious apprentice and improved sigil (krau). She becomes a bard 1/rogue 9/sublime chord 1, able to cast 4th and 5th level bard and sorcerer spells with a caster level of two. From then on, progression is a bit more normal: 6th level spells require a caster level of 4, 7th require 6, 8th require 8, and 9th require 10.

Level 2 sorcerer/wizard spells also are accessible with a CL of 1, via precocious apprentice.

Level 3 sor/wiz spells still require a caster level of 5, as far as I can tell. It's a bit odd: you can cast level 0, 1, and 2 arcane spells at CL 1, then you need CL 5 to cast level 3 arcane spells, then you go back down to CL 2 to cast 4th and 5th level arcane spells.

Bard spells -- well, I think this is mostly covered by the bard/sublime chord combination for bard spells of level 4 or higher. Bard has another weird "hump" in CL: level 0 spells have minimum CL 1, level 1 spells have minimum CL 2, then level 2 spells go back to minimum CL 1 thanks to precocious apprentice. Spell level 3 -- well, the best I can come up with is CL 6, which is barely better than the default of CL 7. That's the caster level at which a chameleon can cast level 3 arcane spells.

Depending on whether aptitude focuses are usable for item creation, the chameleon provides a bit of help for both arcane and divine spellcasting CL minimization for level 2 spells: they can cast them at chameleon level 1 with a CL of 2. From then on, chameleon spellcasting quickly becomes a worse and worse deal for CL minimization: level 3 spells at CL 6, level 4 spells at CL 10, level 5 spells at CL 14, and level 6 spells at CL 18.

The blighter could be addressed, but in truth, I don't feel like bothering. Its spell list is so thoroughly mediocre that the divine crusader, ur-priest, bard/sublime chord, and such probably make it completely obsolete.

So... for an artificer, this means that 9th level cleric and domain spells can be scribed onto scrolls at level 7, since artificers can meet item creation prerequisites two caster levels higher than they are, and can scribe 9th level sorcerer/wizard spells at level 8. Furthermore, polymorph is available at level 1 for an artificer.

**

julesCarv ---
Update: I failed to take into account the feats Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection. With those, every spell, I believe, is accessible with a caster level of 1, when combined with other tricks (ur-priests, etc).


xaktsaroth ---
Not sure if I'm popping a bubble here, but you do realize that when your crafting an item, you can set the CL to your current CL or anything lower, right?


T_G ---
Actually I think CustServ said if you don't have the minimum caster level to normally cast the spell you can't... I would seek a verification of this statement though because it's coming out my random memory bank.


aDMg ---
Commoner 1 Proxies are casting Domain spells at caster level 11, and that's even on the 7s 8s and 9s.
Presumably an item of X can be made from said castings.
Efreet and Noble Djinn are spell-like-ing Wish at caster level 12.

Ardent 2 / Caster 1 with tricks / Cerebremancer or Psychic Theurge 10,
with Psiotheurgist feat from Dragon #349, gets 3rd level powers at 3rd, 4s at 4th, etc.
but then you take ExpandedKnowledge and pick a power that is not part of the Psiotheurgist double count, and EK works with any power and 'surprise' your manifester level on that power is just your Ardent manifester level.
EK at 6th level would give you a 5th level power, but only 5ML if it's not on the Psiotheurgist feat.

Chasing T_G's statement:
This may have bearing over here ---> linky {dead link}
Now, I know it's CustServ , but they do have Caelic in their corner.

so I clicked the link, myself.
The concensus, led by Mommy Was An Orc, seems to be :
Example True Strike - makes no reference to caster level in it's entry, hence it works.
Example Fireball - references caster level, hence 4d6 or 3d6 or even 1d6 fireballs BUT spell fails at 0 caster level.


ed209 ---
Sublime Chord has access to the entirety of the Sorcerer/Wizard and Bard spell lists, not just spells of 4th level and above. Such a character is allowed to add lower level spells (0-3) to his known list with something as simple as Extra Spell, and just requires caster level 3. Some other useful low level lists that occur to me (not sure if they add anything useful) are Nar Demonbonder, Suel Arcanamach, Holy Liberator(mostly Paladin), Pious Templar(Paladin or Blackguard), and Consecrated Harrier(Ranger). Anyone got one for Druid?


callix ---
The trick here with Mage Slayer is that it is possible to cast almost any spell with a caster level no higher than 5. (Ur-priest 9 with no cleric and Mage Slayer). Thus a 3rd level artificer can create any spell-dependent magic item, because he can create any item that requires a CL of 5 or less. Since the item could be created by a reverse-optimised character of CL 5, he can make it. Cubic Gates anyone?


aDMg ---
I was perusing CPsi and found
"Dimension Door, Psionic" has two negative augments. This allows a 4th level power to be -fested at 3pp.
Githzerai get "Plane Shift, Psionic" at 11th level; it's a 6th level power at 6 ML.
This establishes that Psionic powers can be manifested at a lower ML/pp than standard.

Just reread the Thrallherd.
It discounts Psi-Charm way below it's original cost, all the way down to 1pp.
So psionic powers can be manifested for a lower pp cost than what's listed.
It just takes more machinations, than those cheesy Wizards and Clerics take.


crimsondeath {not sure who he quotes}
   let's take an illumian bard 1/rogue 9 with precocious apprentice and improved sigil (krau). She becomes a bard 1/rogue 9/sublime chord 1
No, she doesn't. An Illumian Bard 1 with Improved Sigil Krau knows four cantrips, which her Improved Krau Sigil can Heighten to level 1 spells. You need either another level of Bard, or a level of pretty much any other arcane spellcasting class.


archerpwr ---
bard 1/ wizard 1/ XX 8/ SC 1 could have a CL of two though, right?


crimsondeath ---
Actually, even that wouldn't work because you need level 3 spells to become a Sublime Chord.


archerpwr ---
prec. apprentice (wizard) + improved sigil krau?


crimsondeath ---
That would work.


aDMg ---
Druid spells can now be treated as Arcane.
P.30 of Dragons of Eberron, has a dragon religion called Child of Eberron.
It adds Druid spells to the arcane list, for the dragon.
For everybody else:
Locate said dragon ; Charm said dragon ; You start making a scroll ; The dragon supplies the spell.
Then stick it through JulesCARV's loop.

What makes it ... s ... l ... o ... w ... ,
is which-ever dragon only knows a Sorcerer's # of spells,
so the total known Druid=arcane spells,
will be limited one dragon, to one other dragon, to the next dragon, etc.

Magic of Eberron has the feat Psychic Rush.
For 1 action point, it reduces the cost of a power by d6 powerpoints.
Combined with Psiotheurgist, and a very specific build,
that reduces the cost of all up to 8th level powers to 1 pp.

Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle open up any power up to 7th level
to non-psi for just 1 pp; so that's about the same ball park.

Metapower and Midnight Augmentation combined with Psychic Rush (above)
would reduce augmentation costs to 1pp for any augment up to (8+PowerLevel of PP)pp total cost.
The CPsi powerstone nerf could be two-wayed. First to make a cheap powerstone.
Then use it, via the 3 feats above for augmenting, to make a new powerstone, with the cheapened augmentation.

Lastly, Chameleon Crafting feat in Dragon #349 can make psi powers into an arcane or divine item; and vice versa.
All for the cost of *1.5 exp of normal.
Scrolls of Psi powers can be made, and then Wizards or Archivists can run them through the loop.
That feat is totally borkny.

conclusion:
Psionics is hard to do this way, but all in all, every spell and power can be 1 CL or ML.
Psi-powers can also be augmented by bunches for just 1 more pp.


julesCARV --- {not sure who he quotes}
    No, she doesn't. An Illumian Bard 1 with Improved Sigil Krau knows four cantrips, which her Improved Krau Sigil can Heighten to level 1 spells. You need either another level of Bard, or a level of pretty much any other arcane spellcasting class.
Okay. It's been a while since I've looked at this thread, but I'm confused. Are you saying that the 2nd level spell slot from precocious apprentice doesn't count in terms of meeting prestige class prerequisites? If so, fair enough, but if so, you really need four bard levels, not just two, to be able to use improved sigil (krau) to heighten them to 3rd level spells as need for the sublime chord entry, and nor would a single level of another spellcasting class be sufficient: three wizard levels, for instance, would be necessary.
So where are you getting this "either one more bard level or one level of another arcane class like sorcerer or wizard is needed" stuff? Are you thinking that the sublime chord has a requirement of 2nd level spells, which could be acquired by krau-heightening a 1st level spell or something?


phaedrusXY --- {aDMg quote}
    D
    What makes it ... s ... l ... o ... w ... ,
    is which-ever dragon only knows a Sorcerer's # of spells,
    so the total known Druid=arcane spells,
    will be limited one dragon, to one other dragon, to the next dragon, etc.
Hi Mr. (charmed/dominated/otherwise enslaved) Dragon. Can I use Psychic Reformation on you? 25 XP per spell is not too bad.


PLZ ---
I'm glad you guys managed to prove it. I saw when this came out and I though, 'of course' and never read it [good job though awakened]


**

Now does it fit?
It fits.  Minor edits for format.
So post away, if so inclined.

53
Min/Max 3.x / Did anyone port/hack over TM20's guide to Schools gawds Tools?
« on: September 23, 2015, 03:52:31 PM »
Tsuyo put Divination in his regional dex, so that's saved.

But I haven't been able to locate
CantripN's transmutation or TM20's the other 6.

I'm willing to do the work to transfer them over,
from wotc, but did I miss them over here somewhere??

54
General D&D Discussion / [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« on: September 19, 2015, 04:18:22 PM »
This was his version of an obituary.

(posted Mar 14, 2008)

Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge.  You tried to whack Gary Gygax ...
... you only proved you haven't read the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master's Guide.

You posted a contra retrospective, with narry a fact-check to be found. It's my intention to not flamethrow a thing at you, rather just point out to you the facts; facts readily available in a Player's Handbook (PHB), a Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), and even on-line at www.d20srd.org. Here's what you posted at http://www.slate.com/id/2186203/pagenum/all/
(click to show/hide)


**


The basic outline to contra your contra is A for Alignment, B for Bill Gates, C for Challenge Ratings, D for Diplomacy Checks , E for Experience Points, and some other stuff. Easy enough to remember. You can/could've looked all this up.

A ... Alignment is found in the PHB in Chapter 6, and also throughout all Dungeons and Dragons books (D&D). Similarly, it's available right now at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm. If you had fact checked, you'd've noticed that the behavior you describe as a "normal" game, is very not that way. There is a Prestige Class that works the way you want D&D to work; it's called the Assassin, here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm. You'll note, there is only one small class that does what you accuse all of D&D to do. Alignment of the Planes is here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#outerPlanes , and again also available in the PHB and the DMG.

The Planes are an awful interesting place, especially in regards to "moral" discussions. In the real world, Jerry Falwell Protestants, Jesuit Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, line up in slight opposition to Calvinist Protestants, Dominican Catholics, and Lutherans; the free-will vs. determinism debate. To oversimplify: you pick god vs. god picks you. In D&D, some creatures have free-will; but some creatures are made by the planes, planes which are the em(supra-)bodyment of a particular alignment, the creatures unable to behave in any way other than exactly the way the plane made them. The creatures that act like what you think D&D has them act, are parcelled off on the Plane of Archeron, the plane of eternal war. And even there, they don't have infinite resources to kill, and kill, and not need to lick their wounds, and not need to check there rankings in the army they belong to. Some of the creatures in D&D are Hyper-Calvinism Gone Wild, and some of them act like the videos I'm referencing.


C ... Challenge Ratings for Traps, is available right now at http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/traps.htm ; also in the DMG under "Traps" in Chapter 3. No killing here. You do need a really smart Wizard, or a Cleric with a specific spell, or more typically, a Rogue to find the trap and disable it. And then something interesting happens, you get experience points. Way back in the day, the trapfinder was called a Thief, but most of the time, the Thief was not thieving. Weird, huh?


D ... Diplomacy Checks and other skills, are in the PHB Chapter 4, and the DMG Chapter 4 NPC attitudes section, and online at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm. Provided you can talk to the monster, and you can with minimal spell investment, and later Telepathy, adjust the bad guy's attitude. You can make it friendly. You can make it helpful, even better. You can make it Fanatical, and have it follow you around like a puppy, even in the face of a horrible Dragon. No killing here. And then something interesting happens, you get experience points. Charm Person and Charm Monster are well know spells, that do the same thing except faster and flashier. Maybe you use the Giant to fix the Barn he wrecked a few days ago. Let's sing Kum-Bye-Ya in Orcish (sweetly).


E ... Experience Points are in the DMG Chapter 2 under Rewards. It is detailed with Experience Awards and Story Awards, both of which may involve no killing. This one isn't linked online, because it's crucial to game play; perhaps the only rule that is a rule that must not be mentioned, lest the dreaded Abomination of the Copyright Dimension, sticks a supernatural suggestion on your soul, forever ... a mighty long time. Question: If you assign a CR to an Orc baby, one with ~maybe 1 hit point and can't move, of perhaps 1/10 - what level would you be when you wouldn't receive any experience points for killing all of them ???
In 1st Edition D&D, you could have terminal levels on immortal creatures, that could do what you want to do with Orc babies, for eternity, just like that "dude" in Greek Mythology that rolled a rock up a hill, and rolled a rock up a hill, and ... never ever get ahead. Literally Hell - in a D&D sense - and only one very small corner of an infinite number of infinite planes. Oh, and no experience points ever, for all that killing.


B ... Bill Gates is your boss, via Michael Kinsley. This is a rather distasteful line of reasoning for me. Bill Gates made Microsoft. Gary Gygax made D&D. You (and I) use Microsoft. You (and I) use D&D. You use D&D for *indirect object A*. I use D&D for *indirect object B*. The same sentence model can be used for Microsoft. Some people use D&D for 'distaseful indirect object'. Some people use Microsoft for 'distasteful indirect object'. You blame Gary Gygax for your own indirect object, a.k.a. hack-and-slash.
Should I blame Bill Gates for people using Microsoft for child-prawn and/or soupy-sized bombing? Ick.
By the way, this compares real-world bad behavior, to imaginary-world bad behavior.


F ... Fie on you, knave. { ... sorry, couldn't resist ... }


G ... Generically, there are 9th graders playing D&D somewhere near where you are. I'm sure they could help you out of the mess you've made of your own game. D&D is a huge rule-set. Real world Freshman Introductory Psychology will tell you, that people remember 30% of what they've read. You either didn't read the rules, or you read them but didn't remember them. Read 'em again, maybe 3 or 4 more times. In D&D, there's a skill called Autohypnosis, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm. Let's say I'm the DM and I'm'n'a give you 1 rank in the trained skill. You need to roll a (15-1) on a d20, to "memorize - You can attempt to memorize a long string of numbers, a long passage of verse, or some other particularly difficult piece of information (but you can’t memorize magical writing or similarly exotic scripts). Each successful check allows you to memorize a single page of text (up to 800 words), numbers, diagrams, or sigils (even if you don’t recognize their meaning). If a document is longer than one page, you can make additional checks for each additional page. You always retain this information (lucky!); however, you can recall it only with another successful Autohypnosis check." Even in D&D, you don't memorize everything, unless you are really really skilled. In the real world, you don't "always retain this information".


(clicky please)
Hide
Relax, sit back, click a few links, meditate, and an eventual apology would be appropriate. I hereby sentence you to 6 months of playtesting, and a published book review of D&D for Dummies. I apologize to Bill Gates for dragging him into this.

Thanks,

signed ... awaken_Dungeon_Master_golem


**

I'll clean this up later.
EDIT ---- added sblock to sofge's

link for wayback purposes
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1174866

55
Saving from the glee-2-pocalypse.
This one is 2E , and there's some confusion about which DMG printing is used.

**

post #1 Betasquirrell

A new edition is coming around, and all our builds will soon be outdated, so I thought I'd put up some really outdated optimization - from 2E. In the 2nd edition DMG, there was a table for creating custom classes as an optional rule. The gist of it was that you went through tables and cherry-picked what you wanted, and each selection gave you a number. At the end of class creation, you added all those numbers together and got a total (which was probably quite large).

You took this total and used it as a scalar on the DMG's sample xp table, and you got the xp progression for your class. This allowed you to play your 'I can do ANYTHING' character, but you would take about ...30-ish times the amount of xp to level up as your fighter buddy. (Yes, I checked).

Well, this was one of the few places in the 2E manuals that allowed for real customization besides race selection, spell picking, and ability scores. “So,” I thought, “it must be breakable!” Boy was I right! Once I figured out that there were no limits, I was able to construct the following class, using the minimums for everything:
[size="3"]The Punster - 2E[/size][/b]<br />
#   Reason<br />
0   Race: Human only<br />
-4   Combat and saves:  As 0-level human (terrible, and they never improve)<br />
-1   Armor: None allowed<br />
-1.5   Weapons:  Limited (4 total weapons for class, none can do more than 1d6)<br />
+2   Hit Dice:  d4 until level 9, +1 per level thereafter (minimum allowed)<br />
-2   Alignment:  Lawful Good<br />
-1   Special:  Can possess only 6 magic items<br />
-.5   Special:  Must carry all possessions<br />
-1   Special:  Cannot associate with bards (I dunno, I don't like bards.)<br />
-.5   Special:  Must donate 10% of all treasure<br />
+9   May learn and cast 3 schools of magic: Necromancy, Conjuration/Summoning, Illusion<br />
--------------------------------------<br />
[size="3"]-0.5[/size]   Total

What does this mean? Well, assuming you play a Human Punster 1, at level 1 you are just a limited wizard. But you actually have 100 more xp than the next level requirement at start of play! Because the scalar is negative, your xp table actually got inverted, so at 0xp you have 100 more than was necessary for level 2 and 14,000 more than was necessary for level 9, meaning that you start the game at level !

In fact, the xp for level 99 would be, based on the chart’s instructions to increment the base by 30,000 for each level past 10, (30,000*89+28000)*(-0.5)=-1349000, which means that you have completely eclipsed level 99 by the beginning of character creation! And because you started with 0 xp, and didn't gain it in an encounter, you are immune to the rule that states: 'you can't gain enough xp in one encounter to advance more than one level'.

So, what do you get? Instant access to the highest powered summoning spells, the prismatic array, and Wish (along with the sweet necromancy and illusion spells). And, here's the good bit, instant access to 10th level magic from 'Player's Option: Spells and Powers' (or whatever it was called).


**


Fwib

I can't find my original notes, but I think I picked:
Human-only(+0), RogueCV(-1), Best Saving Throws(+0), d3 HD(+0), All Armour(+0), Limited Weapons(-1.5), 1 hp/level beyond 9th(+.5), One Initial Proficiency Slot(+.25) Cast Any Priest Spell(+8), Two Alignment Restrictions(-2), Cannot Keep More Than Can Carry(-.5), Donate 10%(-.5), Ethos(-1), Cannot Associate with class+alignment(-2)
Total(0.25)

Ahhh... memories.


**


Bs quoting me

    This is like DC Zero epic spells, and then using the SR seed to make DC negative epic spells.
    Bravo, and congrats.


Thanks!

    And how exactly do you plan on grabbing the power(s) of the gods; all of them; and more ?!


By using rules from Legends and Lore, which, IIRC, had rules about becoming a demigod that I should easily be able to complete with my p0werz.

Did I beat you to the punch? ;) I don't mind sharing the credit for 2E's ascensions if you want to incorporate this (assuming your method is different and we didn't think of the same thing).

If you've got a build, though, keep in mind that I reach level Infinity at 0xp, so you'll have to ascend really fast. Of course, if you use the same trick you might be able to get there first, assuming you have some clever combo.

Oh, yeah. Did anyone else notice that you can add ANY ABILITY for a +3 mod? As in, Manipulate Form 2E style?

By the way, Fwib, what DMG were you using? According to mine, there is no d3 and you are missing something like -11 for 'cannot associate with any class or alignment.' As it is, you can associate with any class/alignment except two. So you have more leeway than you think!


**


Chemus

Infinite stats would be accessible via infinite wish spells, IIRC. 2e's been a while for me.

Outside of outright godhood, as I recall, you only get access to 9th level spells as a wizard-type caster.

10th level spells are relegated to gods normally, I think. Your wishes, however would own!



**


jojolagger

race:human  only                                                                             1         cheapest
Combat value used:wiard                                                                1         bad but scales up with lvl
saves:wizard                                                                                   1         bad but scales up with lvl
HP: 1d3                                                                                            0         cheapest
armor:none                                                                                     -1        cheapest
weapons: limited                                                                             -1.5     cheapest
HP at lvl 9+: 1                                                                                  0.5       cheapest
must be good                                                                                  -1        cheaper
must be neutral                                                                               -1         cheaper
must carry weath                                                                            -0.5       easy due to next one
must donate all treasure                                                                 -5         with bonusest who cares
cannot own more than  6 magic items                                             -1          easy due to above
cannot associate with evil                                                                -1           cheaper
spell schools (Necromancy, Conjuration/Summoning, Illusion)          9            magic

total exp multiplier                                                                             (-0.5)        Infinite lvl at zero exp

end result  character  NG exp 0 lvl infinity,  THACO - infinity, awesome Saves, 3 spell schools, Infinity HP, no treasure but hey who cares

P.S. formating died when I posted


**

56
General D&D Discussion / [Archive] ... Gygax's Guitar Heroes
« on: September 19, 2015, 02:39:55 PM »
Nother from the 2nd-gleemax-pocalypse
and following Nifft's lead on [Archive]

AlterFrom did this, circa May '09.

Gygax's Guitar Heroes!

IMAGE(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/guitar_hero.jpg)
Pic Unrelated, but hilarious.


Flip to the last chapter of Arcane Power, the rituals one. This is where the fun starts. We already know about Duplicate and then Fool's Gold; any magic that lets you create "gold" is certain to be broken at some point or another. These two just let you fake wealth, however. BUT! What if I told you there was a ritual that generated real, cold, hard cash?

Flip to page 154, if you please. Top-right corner. Call of Friendship ritual.

It costs 50 gp to cast, and needs a 50 gp focus. A Diplo check of 19 or lower gets a 1 hour friend and 5 gp; 20-29 gets you an hour and 25 gp. 30-39 gets you 6 hours and 50 gp - Hey! We break even with a check of 30+! But wait, it gets better! A check of 40+ gets you 24 hours and 500 gp.

A Net Gain with a check of 40+. The question is, then, just how early can this happen?

It can happen at Level 1 3, since I forgot to account for the "level -2" restriction on the target. (With a few caveats or a bit of cheese)
The math for the trick is currently set for level 1 since it will take me a few minutes to recalculate at a +1 bonus to the check.

The Setup
Hide
We're gonna have a full party here, 6 characters, as follows: (all are level 3)
Half-Elven Bard of Waterdeep* (Takes "Skill Focus(Diplo)")
Half-Elven Ranger (Takes the "Crucial Advice" encounter utility power, Also takes "Skill Training(Diplo)")
[Any Race] Cleric of Waukeen (Takes the "Waukeen's Silver Tongue" CD power)
[Any Race] Cleric of Garl Glittergold (Takes the "Glittergold's Gambit" CD power)
2 Characters of any race and any class. (Must have Diplomacy as a class skill)

All members have training in diplomacy and a 10 CHA (The Bard has a 20 CHA). They have diplomacy mods of +6.

*Or any background that grants +2 diplomacy, per the PHB2 background rules.


The "Heist"
Hide
Let's break it down step by step:

    The party pools their starting gold, for a total of 600 gp
    A scroll of CoF costs 215 gp, the focus costs 50 gp, the components cost 50. The party can afford 2 scrolls, 2 castings worth of components, and a focus with 20 gp leftover.
    The Bard has a total Diplomacy modifier pre-mods of +18 (1 Level + 5 CHA + 5 Training + 3 Focus + 2 Race(Untyped) + 2 Background)
    Another Half-Elf in the party grants a +1 racial bonus to Diplomacy to the Bard and the other party members (the Bard covers the other Half-Elf party member) putting the others at +7 diplo.
    The Bard's Words of Friendship power grants a +5 bonus to the Diplo roll. (Admittedly the most untenable part of the combo since you might not be able to use the minor action at the proper time, but...it makes the trick a good bit smoother with it)
    The Bard's Clockwork Precision power (AP p8) bumps the party members' diplo AA checks to +9 (auto-success) and cause them to provide +3 per check rather than +2. Since it lasts until the end of the encounter, activating it just before starting to cast a scroll leaves the allies just enough time to use it. Otherwise, a second bard in the party could simply use it instead of the main Bard.
    The Clerics each provide a reroll to the diplomacy check, and the ranger does so as well.
    Per PHB p179 and p299, we can have up to 4 allies assist with the skill check for a total +12 (A +9 bonus on the allies guarantees they'll get the DC 10 to aid)
    We're up to a total bonus of +31 with 3 rerolls and 2 castings. Math time!



With a +36, we're guaranteed to not lost the value of the components at least. The probability of increasing our wealth is as follows:

DC 40 - 36 = Success on 4+ = .15 chance of failure.

.15 ^ 3 = .003375 chance of failure after rerolls. = .996625 chance of success after rerolls.

.00375 ^ 2 = 0.000011390625 chance of failing both castings.

.996625 * 500 gp = 498.3125 expected gp per casting

At a cost of 265 gp for a scroll and components for each casting, we can expect an income of ~233 gp per casting.

At 1 casting every 10 minutes (5 minute cast for being a scroll and a 5 minute rest, assuming purchase time is negligible), this is 30672 gp every 24 hours since we don't need to ever take an extended rest.

At this rate, we could purchase a L30 magic item in 102 days (A bit over 3 months).


Surely it can be done more elegantly, though?

Indeed it can.

Ocean's Eleven Style (AKA the super-special-awesome version)
Hide
The party is composed as before, but now everyone is level 4.
Their feats are as follows:

    Bard: No necessary new feats.
    Clerics: Multi to Wizard, Take a familiar feat.
    Ranger: As Clerics
    Others: As Clerics


Other new things:

    Bard Can now cast CoF once per day for free, having scribed it into his spellbook.
    Bard now has a Gem of Colloquy L2, granting another +1 to Diplo
    All party members and their familiars now aid the bard, for a total AA bonus of +30 (10 assistants: 5 allies, 5 familiars; The allies use APs to produce the necessary action for the familiars to AA the bard, who didn't take a familiar because I felt the bard APing during the ritual was really pushing it.) (Explanation of why I disregarded the 4 ally "limit" on AA in next spoiler)


The Bard's Diplo check is now at +63, plenty more than enough to hit the DC 40 check every time before rerolls.

Since the Bard can cast the ritual for free 1/day, the trick now requires 265 gp of startup money for a focus and scribing fee for the ritual. It's considerably slower than before, but it's now 100% guaranteed to grow infinitely and costs 0 upkeep money.


On Aid Another
Hide
For Reference:

    PHB p179 wrote:
    Cooperation
    In some situations, you and your allies can work
    together to use a skill; your allies can help you make
    a skill check by making a check themselves. Each
    ally who gets a result of 10 or higher gives you a +2
    bonus to your check. Up to four allies can help you,
    for a maximum bonus of +8. If you have a choice, let
    the character in your group who has the highest base
    skill check bonus take the lead, while the other char*
    acters cooperate to give bonuses to the check. See “Aid
    Another,” page 287, for how to cooperate in combat.


    PHB p287 wrote:
    Aid Another
    You use your action to aid another character. You can
    aid an ally’s attack roll against one enemy or grant an
    ally a bonus against an enemy’s next attack. You can
    also use this action to aid someone else’s skill check or
    ability check.

    ? Attack Roll: Choose a target within your melee
    reach and make a melee basic attack vs. AC 10. If
    you succeed, deal no damage, but choose one ally.
    That ally gets a +2 bonus to his or her next attack
    roll against the target or to all defenses against the
    target’s next attack. This bonus ends if not used by
    the end of your next turn.
    ? Skill or Ability Check: You can instead aid a skill
    check or an ability check made by an adjacent ally.
    Make a DC 10 skill check or ability check. If you suc*
    ceed, you give a +2 bonus to your ally’s next check
    using the same skill or ability. This bonus ends if not
    used by the end of the ally’s next turn.


The usual ritual cooperation rules call for using the "cooperation" rules on p179. However, the CoF ritual calls for a skill check after the ritual is cast, meaning the allies can activate Aid Another on round 100 (since it takes 10 mins to cast) and do the same with their familiars with an action point.

If we work by RAI here (which, IMO, was thrown out the window the moment this became an infinite wealth trick), the earliest perfect success is guaranteed is level 16. The math proving this claim is trivial and thus left to the reader. :P


This trick is perfectly legal in LFR, but the level item restrictions make it rather pointless (can't use items over 4 level higher than you).
This trick is perfectly useful in homegames, but the lack of rules-robot DMs make it rather pointless (any of a myriad of reasons).

Big Thanks to:
Ieniemienie for starting the ball rolling.
-and-
awaken_DM_golem for helping me nail out the details.

Original Thread on BG

Credit for First Conception to:
Stardock, here

57
General D&D Discussion / [Archive] ... d&d timeline , speed dump finished
« on: September 18, 2015, 03:35:23 PM »
This work is ripvanwormer from planewalker.com
but saving it from the greater-glee-pocalypse.
It's fully sourced -- a rarity -- others are out there.

EDIT ------> I think I've gotten all of what I was looking for.  I did not ask for permission from the various authors, I just ripped it for preservation purposes.  It's a heck of a lot of reading.

I need about 9 posts ......

**

 :clap



GHotR has made non-3.5E sources to be legitimate. I like that.
I inserted one red line into your 1st timeline, since that's the one with years on it.

Originally Posted by ripvanwormer
06-27-06, 01:06 AM
* The leshays destroy the previous multiverse [Epic Level Handbook, 202].
* The present multiverse begins, created by the so-called Old Ones. [DM's Guide to Immortals, page 3]
* The Old Ones create draedens and the first dragons [Dragon #158, page 14]
* The Elder Evils create the aboleths [Lords of Madness, page 15]
* The Old Ones create a Barrier around the multiverse and withdraw beyond it, interacting with their creation only through their minions, the umbral blots and spectral hounds. Others say the umbral blots destroy their creators [DM's Guide to Immortals, pages 3, 4, and 50 - see also the Epic Level Handbook, page 224]
* The first gods find the multiverse without order and without purpose, and they make the achievements of these things their highest goal. [ibid]
* The draedens become resentful of the gods, and the two forces go to war. After long strife and negotiations, the draedens agree to peace, planning to outlast their enemies, waiting for the gods to destroy themselves, leaving the multiverse to them again.[DM's Guide to Immortals, page 39]
* The draeden Ulgurshek falls asleep in the void that will one day become the Abyss [FC:1, 126]. The Sleeping Ones fall asleep in what will become the Plane of Ice [The Inner Planes, 72].
* The forces of Good, Evil, Law, Neutrality, and Chaos form [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 8]
* The force of Evil creates the baernaloths [Ibid, page 8]. The force of Law creates the Twin Serpents [Guide to Hell, page 2]. The slaad lords (first Ssendam, then Ygorl) and the unnamed celestial progenitors also emerge at this time.
* Law and Chaos battle, as do Good and Evil, twisting and deforming scope of existence. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 8]. The forces of Law enforce order on the chaos of the outer planes, leaving the Abyss as the remnants of their plunder. [FC:1, page 5].
* The Unity of Rings principle is established by the Twin Serpents [Guide to Hell, 2]
* The Outlands are created at the border of Law and Chaos [Guide to Hell, page 2, also Hellbound page 8].
* The Rule of Threes principle is established [Guide to Hell, 2]
* The Center of All principle is established last [Guide to Hell, 2]
* Law combines with Good and Evil, and Chaos does the same thing [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 8]. The Serpents battle between themselves. [Guide to Hell, 3]
* The Inner Planes shift. The Paraelemental Planes of Dust and Vapor become Quasielemental Planes of Dust and Steam. They are replaced by the new Paraelemental Planes of Smoke and Ooze [Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III, page 116; see also 1e Deities & Demigods, page 113]
* Thousands of years after the emergence of the baernaloths, they create the yugoloths. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, 8 and 10] The guardinals are created at the same time. The roles of the Celestial Lion and his Five Companions are established [Book of Exalted Deeds, 138]
* The Styx grows from a trickle to a stream, creek, and finally a full river. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, 10]. The Oceanus grows at the same time.
* The rebellious baernaloth Apomps creates the demodands [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, 10]
* The General of Gehenna creates the Heart of Darkness to purify the yugoloths of Law and Chaos. The expunged forces are transferred into larvae and driven into Baator and the Abyss [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, 10]
* The tainted larvae evolve into obyriths [Fiendish Codex I] and ancient baatorians. Ssendam and Ygorl create the Spawning Stone to limit future slaad forms [Tales From the Infinite Staircase, 71] Seven blessed martyrs who sacrificed themselves for the cause of a goodness and law are transformed into the first of the Celestial Hebdomad [Book of Exalted Deeds, page 124]. The eladrin Queen of Stars is born [Book of Exalted Deeds, 150]
* The baernaloths disappear [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 11].
* The ancient baatorians disappear [Hellbound: War Games. [page 74], leaving behind their young, the nupperibos [Faces of Evil, 12]
* The kamarel Hallonac creates the Mirrored Library [Tales From the Infinite Staircase, 102]
* The beholder Great Mother spawns beholders and gibbering mouthers [Lords of Madness, 37] and oculus demons [Dungeon #129, 64]
* Obyriths create the tanar'ri [FC1, 105]. The first baatezu form from the blood pooling in the Serpent's Coil in Nessus [Guide to Hell, 36]. Aphanacts emerge from Mechanus [Dragon #341, 52]
* The vaati conquer the Elemental Planes and much of the Material Plane [Dungeon #124, 17]
* The Queen of Chaos declares war on the vaati [FC1, 106], cowing most of her rivals under her banner. Ogremoch becomes her ally [Dungeon #124, page 29]. Bwimb becomes her ally [Dungeon #129, 47]. She kills Obox-Ob, naming Miska the Wolf-Spider Prince of Demons in his stead [FC1, 73]. Dagon refuses to become involved [FC1, 61].
* World after world falls to the Queen of Chaos and her minions [FC1, 106].
* Law and Chaos stalemate for centuries [Dungeon #124, 17]
* The battle at Pesh. Miska the Wolf-Spider is bound by the vaati Icosiol using the Rod of Seven Parts [Dungeon #124, 17]
* The Harrowing of the Abyss. The eladrin Queen of Stars dispatches an army to cleanse the Abyss of the obyriths. The tanar'ri, led by Demogorgon [FC1, 139], rebel against their former masters. [FC1, 106] Pale Night misleads the Consort of Stars, Ascodel, and thousands of eladrins are imprisoned in the layer Androlynne [FC1, 148]
* War between the rilmani and kamarel [Tales From the Infinite Staircase, 103]. The kamarel flee into the Plane of Mirrors.
* Ascodel, Consort of Stars, dies protecting the innocents of Androlynne [FC1, 148].
* Although Law and Chaos settle into an awkward stalemate throughout most of the planes [FC`,106], the tanar'ri and baatezu fight on. Parties of the respective races encounter one another for the first time, resulting in slaughter on their respective planes. Larger parties are sent in retribution, then batallions, then armies. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 11].
* Arcanaloths offer the mercenary services of their race to the tanar'ri and baatezu. They betray their employers in the very first battle. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 11]
* Demogorgon declares himself Prince of Demons. [FC1, 139] The Lords of the Nine make their first appearance in planar records. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 11]
* The balance of power between tanar'ri and baatezu swings wildly [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 11]
* The tanar'ri and baatezu explore the upper and neutral planes [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 12]
* Millions of celestials, archons and angels (not eladrins, who learned their lesson long before) intercede in the Blood War. Only 3000 return to the Upper Planes, teaching the celestials caution and prudence when dealing with the fiends [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 12].
* In the aftermath of the slaughter, celestials schism along lawful and chaotic lines. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 13]
* War in the heavens [Book of Exalted Deeds, 124]. The archon Triel succumbs to temptation, craving more power and authority than Heaven would grant him. Blinded by ambition, he goes to far and is exiled to Hell as Lord Baalzebul [Book of Vile Darkness, 158; see also Green Ronin's Legions of Hell, page 60].
* The fiends begin keeping meticulous histories of events. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 13]
* The gods intercede in the Blood War. A god of chaos dies, apparently due to the agency of wrathful fiends. Most take the hint and leave the demons and devils to their war; a few continue to involve themselves to this day [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, 13]
* Early battles in the Blood War. Bel, not yet a Lord of the Nine, executes his legendary Four-Cross. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 13; Guide to Hell, page 39]
* After millennia, the first petitioners begin arriving in the Outer Planes. Baatezu experiment on twisting them into lemures. Archons transform them into lanterns. Tanar'ri turn them into manes. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, 13]
* Fiends and celestials discover Sigil, the City of Doors, and its Lady of Pain [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 14]. They scheme to use it to their advantage.
* First battles on the Field of Nettles in the Gray Waste [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 14]
* The empire of the Aeree, the progenitors of birdlike humanoid races, emerges on worlds not dominated by illithids. [Citation needed - Serpent Kingdoms?]
* Kiaransalee, necromancer-queen of the world of Threnody, ascends into true divinity after destroying her world. [Demihuman Deities, 23; also Lost Empires of Faerun timeline]
* The Blood War pauses to access the threat of the expanding illithid empire [The Illithiad, page 38]
* The first human, Vashar, is destroyed by the gods. He is recreated by a demon, some say Graz'zt. [Book of Vile Darkness, 12]
* A slave rebellion headed by a Pharagoan warrior-psion named Gith quickly spreads to most illithid settlements. The armies are divided into three groups, one led by a warrior-psion named Zerthimon, one led by a wizard named Vlaakith, and one led by Gith herself. Enough elder brains are destroyed to break the Overmind and plunge the illithid empire into darkness. [The Illithiad, page 39, and Dungeon #100]
* The Proclaimation of Two Skies. The followers of Gith begin to battle one another as Gith's general Zerthimon leads a third of their forces against her [Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix One, 48]
* Zerthimon is killed in personal combat with Gith. The followers of Zerthimon make a strategic defeat to Limbo, a plane hazardous enough to discourage pursuit but not devoted to evil. [A Guide to the Astral Plane, 46]
* Gith travels to Baator to make a pact with Tiamat's red dragon consort Ephelomon. She does not return. [A Guide to the Astral Plane, 46] Vlaakith is crowned Vlaakith I, Queen of the Githyanki.
* Tanar'ri and baatezu begin exploiting the Material Plane [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 14]. A group of archons called the Watchers teach mortals the arts of enchantment, astrology, smithcraft, writing, and the signs of the sun and clouds. The Watchers are exiled from Celestia for interfering too closely with mortal development. They give rise to a race of aasimar [Planes of Law: Mount Celestia, page 10; See also Green Ronin's Legions of Hell, page 61]

* ~37,000 years ago. Grand History of the Realms - picks up here [Brian James, extensive D&D boards work]

* 30,000 years ago. Araushnee is driven from the Seldarine [Lost Empires of Faerun timeline]
* Collapse of the spellweaver empire [Dragon #338, 63]
* Much more than 10,000 years ago, a wizard of nearly godlike power weaves a spell designed to destroy the lady of Pain. He is imprisoned in the Labyrinth Stone and cast into Pandemonium [Faction War, 4]
* The race of ethergaunts, or Khen-Zai, abandon the material plane for the Ethereal. [3e Fiend Folio, 64]
* Orcus becomes a demon, initially a manes [FC1, 127]
* 10,000 years ago. The death of Shekelor. [In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil, 23]. The last aphanact disappears from the plane of Mechanus [Dragon #341, 52].
* The Reckoning/Rebellion of the Inferiors in Baator begins. The lower castes take advantage of changes in the Material Plane to rebel. Some of the Lords of the Nine take advantage of the rebellion to attempt to sieze control of Nessus. In the aftermath, Moloch and Geryon are removed from their positions. Triel is transformed into a hideous, sluglike being. Fierana becomes Lady of the Fourth. The Dark Eight take control of Baator's legions. [Hellbound: The Dark of the War, page 14; Guide to Hell, 37]
* The first inevitables appear [Dragon #341, 52].
* Imaskari empire stricken by mysterious plague. [Lost Empires of Faerun]
* War between geniekind and the gods. The Loregiver receives the Law from Fate Herself. [Adventurer's Guide to Zakhara, 114]
* 4000 years ago, the mortal Alvarez becomes a chasme. [Faces of Evil: The Fiends, 60]
* A truce between the warring forces of the Blood War is brokered in order to study the newly-opened Ghoresh Chasm.
* A thousand years ago: Vlaakith CLVII is crowned queen of the githyanki. [A Guide to the Astral Plane, 52]
* About 500 years ago. The monk Tarmuid, the first illumian, becomes a god [Races of Destiny, 73]
* About 200 years ago. The Death of Orcus.
* "Relatively recently," Mydianchlarus whispers a single secret of such profound and disturbing insight that Anthraxus leaves Khin-Oin. [Faces of Evil, 71]
* A hundred years ago. The library of the goddess Aulasha is sacked by the githyanki, rendering Aulasha homeless [Races of Destiny, 74]
* 8 years ago. Orcus returns to Thanatos, driving the goddess Kiaransalee to the world of Guldor [FC1, 125].

 :)

58
Saved this one from the glee-pocalypse.


from ---> gammillustrations.bizland.com/monsterkid...
edit ---> http://gammillustrations.bizland.com/monsterkid5/5_images/idle4.jpg




      ... Not The Were-Schnauzer ?!


(step 0) ... this is Theoretical Optimization.  And a possible "best" case scenario at that.


**




(step 1) ... Pick up the Plane Below book.


**




(step 2) ... turn to the Canaughlin Bog section, thumb your way down to The Black Pool and read that section down to the last sentence.

(step 3) ... Think about it for a moment.  What happens when an elemental and mortal like a Genasi dies?  Genasi qualify for both categories.

(step 4) ... No need for a step 4.  This is all you need.  It really is that simple.

(step 4a) ... And you might need the help of the Were-Schnauzer.


**




(step 5) ... Mo-ar dies and rises as an Abyssal Ghoul.  That's pretty awesome at level 1.  Overwhelming in fact.

(step 6) ... Curly-EST dies and rises as "other horrors".  This could be anything in the Abyss.  Curly could be a level 1 minion Wilted-Lilly Demon.  That would suck obviously.  Curly could also be something more powerful, or vastly more powerful --- say like a level 36 Solo BBEG.  That's really awesome at level 1 and beyond overwhelming.  Or anything in-between.


**


(step 7) ... Larry-Er1 dies and rises as a Blight Born Demon (BBD).  There are two possible results for our purposes.  Two of the BBDs are rather nice results for killing yourself.  That version of Larry-Er is what it is.  Ash is boring though powerful.  Crag is outlandish.  Still, neither of these results are what we want.

(step 8) ... Larry-Er2 dies and rises as a Dust or Swarm BBD.  Dust for the Dust Horde encounter utility.  Swarm for the Consumptive Spew attack.  This can become an Infinite Loop.  At level 1.

(step 9) ... Some DMs might be a little iffy about you killing yourself.  That's OK, you can just jump into one of the Acid pools on the very next page.  Some DMs might be a little iffy about that.  Here's where the Were-Schnauzer fits in.  a It kills you.  b Then it has to survive one Consumptive Spew attack from a Swarm BBD.  cThen it has to kill most or all of the first few minions pumped out, whether Spew-ed or from Dust Horde.  That's it ; the faster, the better.  The Were-Schnauzer has done his/her/its bit for the Infinite Loop.  My guess is it needs to be a level 16 build or so, to reliably do all three things it might be needed to do.

(step 10) ... This is the real action.  The minions are elementals.  KILL THEM.  They rise as one of the 4 BBDs.  Return to step 7 or preferably 8.  Repeat.  Again and again.

(step 11) ... As more and more BBDs pop out, the wave of demons has to go somewhere.  They expand near Geometric out to the limits of the area.  The Crags go down into the earth.  Ash and Dust fly up out of the way.  Ash can even fly through others spaces.  No clogging at all.  The Swarm has an attack that includes movement, so it doesn't clog the area either.  The middle of the space does clog up with the Swarms, though.  Once there's no where left to go within the area, the geometric loop stops, but a linear loop keeps going.  Lastly, the area becomes a portal to Slimeville every now and then, and flushes out the middle.  Think of a donut.  The loop goes geometric again for a short while, to refill the middle.  Overall it's slightly above linear.  And at level 1.

link to a Blight-Born Demon www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4
edit ---> http://dnd.wizards.com/go/article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20091207
nope still doesn't work

**


So ... I'll repeat: it's a possible "best" case T.O. scenario.  Don't do this to your home game.  There are a couple of issues:

The more interesting being the skill challenge in Plane Below (so you don't have to go far) that lets you avoid the demon horde altogether.  Ha!  Serves it right.  At some point, higher level monsters just don't show up.  They go around the horde.  End of advancement and game basically over.  My guess is level 29 monsters can avoid even an all Crag horde.

The less interesting, is there's no random involved with what BBD shows up.  Technically it is dm fiat.  The d.m. has to pick something.  Hence the best case scenario part is necessary for the loop.  The Consult Oracle ritual can find the locale, but at step 6 the dm can make any PC return to life (or "life") at a lower level.  Or the Were-Schnauzer's dinner, quite a "horror" eh?

59
In terms of endless argumentation and
what was being argued or "argued"

Paladin rules and regs, hello Dragon Mag other alignments

DMPC also known as the Divination school of magic

was Tiers that much of an argument?


 :D ;) :???

60
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Why be Commoner 1 when Humanoid RHD 1 exists?
« on: August 07, 2015, 04:57:48 PM »
 :???
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType

It's like a race ACF that goes:

-4 hitpoints
lose 1/4 a BAB if calculating
lose 1 good save
gain Commoner skills list
lose all but 1 simple weapons
lose shield prof because of no armor
gain access to limited # of tricky commoner only thingies


Are commoners just really that stupid/brainwashed to make that "choice"?

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