Author Topic: Gabriel Lightbringer, Master of Puppets (complete)  (Read 48835 times)

Offline phaedrusxy

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Gabriel Lightbringer, Master of Puppets (complete)
« on: November 13, 2011, 10:41:21 PM »
Most recent version (Asura) is HERE
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 09:49:01 AM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2011, 11:53:05 PM »
For mechanics, what about an ardent with a greater celestial bloodline, and a custom mantle that is themed on something like Envy, Domination, or Souls? I'd like powers like Mind Switch and Mind Seed in the mantle for sure. This would let him get into a psionic Stranger with the Burning Eyes a bit faster (assuming I multiclassed into some other PrC that advances his manifesting also, and we use the cheesy interpretation of bloodline + ardent interaction).

Hell... the Telepath discipline is pretty close to what I'm looking for...

Dominion Mantle
Special ability: ?

   1. Charm, Psionic
   2.  Read Thoughts
   3.  ?
   4. Dominate, Psionic
   5. Stygian Dominion: Assume control over the body of a mindless undead creature. (CPsi)
   6. Mind Switch
   7. ?
   8. Mind Seed
   9. Mind Switch, True
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 07:48:53 AM »
The history is fantastic!  Love it.  :)  Think about what he's been up to recently.

Ardent is fine, we can definitely go with the helpful bloodline/ML interpretation.  I'll get back to you on those powers and the mantle ability.  I assume your other mantle(s) will include Force or somesuch, right?  And maybe Freedom, for flight?
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2011, 09:17:42 AM »
Was thinking of building him as so:

Ardent 4/Monk (Cobra Strike) 2/Elocater 1/Psionic Master of the Unseen Hand X/Stranger with the Burning Eyes Y

Elocater would get me permanent flight (albeit with a slow speed, without boosts). MotUH would get me at will Telekinesis. SwtBE would get me at will Magic Jar. And I'd have a few more powers and abilities to flesh him out.

I'm thinking for the psionic version of SwtBE, feat prereqs that would make sense would be Overchannel and Body Fuel, with the skill prereq changed to Knowledge (Psionics).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 10:56:03 AM by phaedrusxy »
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2011, 09:25:47 AM »
Sounds great!  I think this is an awesome character concept.

You'll have to figure out who or what he's possessing currently.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2011, 10:00:37 AM »
Sounds great!  I think this is an awesome character concept.

You'll have to figure out who or what he's possessing currently.
Yeah... what's reasonable? I had him in a war troll with a couple of different versions, but those versions were based on Ur-Priest and had the Mother Cyst feat, and had permanently enthralled a bunch of minions (including the war troll) so that he could just use their bodies whenever he wanted (and the war troll was... pretty overpowered, in retrospect).

I'd also rather have him be more "mobile" (i.e. not stuck in one form all the time, because it's the "best"), also. Thematically, I see this guy using bodies as "disposable". Mechanically when playing different versions of him, I've wound up basically being stuck in bodies because he was a melee-based buffer (DMM ur-priest), and when he wound up with a super-physically powerful body, he was much better off to just stick with it. I'm hoping having him be based on actually using his "powers" for combat (fly + telekinesis) will help me be more free to body hop. :D

Then there is also the concern that when you leave a body, it is then returned to its owner, who is likely pissed and wants to kill you, unless he/she is already your slave or ally somehow...

Anyway, I'll probably just have him in the body of something "normal", like a human hero or something (fighter, etc). I guess making him a Thrallherd could help with that, also. Having one Thrall who he can "ride" around in while shopping for his next body, and also for him to automatically get kicked back into if his current body is killed, is pretty handy. Luckily intelligent magic items work pretty well for that, as well... and can be far more innocuous...
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2011, 10:31:37 AM »
What's reasonable is what makes sense.  I mean, if it's a Will save to resist, don't pick something that will only fail the save on a 1, but if he's going to ride around in a war troll he's going to ride around in a war troll.  :D

A level of thrallherd could work well for that purpose.

EDIT: If you had an item familiar or weapon of legacy to inhabit, it would be hilarious to just be wandering around as a bodiless suit of armor.
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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2011, 10:51:55 AM »
What's reasonable is what makes sense.  I mean, if it's a Will save to resist, don't pick something that will only fail the save on a 1, but if he's going to ride around in a war troll he's going to ride around in a war troll.  :D

A level of thrallherd could work well for that purpose.

EDIT: If you had an item familiar or weapon of legacy to inhabit, it would be hilarious to just be wandering around as a bodiless suit of armor.
In one game where I was playing a version of this dude, at one point I wound up possessing another PCs intelligent (item familiar) Tooth of Savnok...

I do have one guy with this PrC who has custom-made suits of armor that he uses, also.

I have a custom weapon (actually an item) of legacy that I use with a few versions of this guy, which I might just use for that purpose. In the past it has been a necklace or set of bracers, but I'm thinking I'll go for a ring this time.

Edit: Bah, MotUH doesn't actually give you at-will Telekinesis... What a crock... Maybe I should just have an Item Familiar Ring of Telekinesis...

Or maybe just go back to tweaking that feat I made... Maybe tweak it to kind of be a combination reserve feat and tactical feat? Or maybe turn it into a prestige class?...

Telekinetic Master
Prereq: Knowledge of at least 3 Psychokinesis (Force) powers which must include Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Force, or Telekinetic Maneuver as a power known or Psi-like ability.

Benefits: As long as your manifester level and power point reserve meet the following requirements, you gain access to the following abilities as Psi-like abilities using your ML and DCs as if you'd manifested them as a power known.

3: As long as you maintain your psionic focus, you may use Far Hand at will.
5: You may use Telekinetic Thrust at will as a standard action by expending your psionic focus.
7: You may use Telekinetic Force at will as long as you maintain your psionic focus.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 11:22:54 AM by phaedrusxy »
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2011, 12:22:39 PM »
That works perfectly.  Go for it.
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 02:22:42 PM »
So on the Body Fuel feat... it specifically says you can only use it if you're in your own body... Well, since I'm not going to have a body, can we put a bypass feature in the class for that? Or is that going to be a useless feat?  :eh I mean... I could technically use it as a recharge mechanic by possessing and draining bodies of their physical stats, but that's going to be slow and limited by victims. So is that really a problem?
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 02:28:29 PM »
Go ahead and use it on other bodies.  It's very flavorful that way.  :)
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 02:29:17 PM »
Go ahead and use it on other bodies.  It's very flavorful that way.  :)
Thanks. That's what I thought, too. That's why I made it a prereq, then I noticed that prohibition in the write-up...

Psychic Stranger with the Burning Eyes

Change know (rel) prereq to know (psi). Change feat prereqs to Overchannel and Body Fuel. Change Spellcraft class skill to Psicraft. Change +1 spellcasting to +1 manifesting. Change Consume to as follows:

Consume
You may use your Body Fuel feat to consume the strength of bodies other than your own, fueling your psionic prowess at the expense of those you possess.

Everything else is as the original.



Edit: I was thinking of making the special ability of the Dominion mantle something like this:

Commanding Presence
Your presence is so daunting that others instinctively fear to disobey you, even after you've left them. When you intimidate someone, they remain friendly to you indefinitely, as if you'd used Diplomacy instead of Intimidate to change their attitude.

I can't really think of anything else....
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 03:01:29 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 03:25:40 PM »
Or, how about Frightful Presence as a bonus feat?
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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 04:35:44 PM »
Or, how about Frightful Presence as a bonus feat?
Hah! I certainly won't turn that down. Which version? The one dragons get as a special ability? Or is there a feat somewhere?

Although I like the idea of being able to use Intimidate to basically build a network of spies, assassins, etc that are loyal to you out of fear instead of because you're just a smooth talker. That was the idea behind my writeup. Of course, for in-combat purposes, Frightful Presence would almost certainly be more valuable... I think the original seems more in-character for this guy, though.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 04:37:39 PM by phaedrusxy »
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Tshern

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 06:24:45 PM »
Frightful presence, good, good. I need someone to make people run away from me before they gang up and destroy Bane. So, basically, you are not partially responsible for keeping the Sith alive!
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 06:25:40 PM »
Well, if you like the Frightful Presence idea then you can either go with FP the feat from Draconomicon (pg 106), or Daunting Presence from Libris Mortis (pg 25), whichever you like better.  However, if you think the original idea makes more sense then go for it -- I was just suggestion some options since you were drawing a blank :D
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 09:00:45 PM »
Hmm... Frightful Presence + Never Outnumbered could make a decent battlefield control combo. The range is pretty crappy, though, and it is mind-affecting. But still, fun. This guy wound up lacking any BFC abilities, unlike the stormlord idea I played with earlier.

It doesn't look like we have much in the way of BFC, so maybe I should pick it up...

For reference:
(click to show/hide)
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Tshern

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2011, 09:10:25 PM »
Hmm... Frightful Presence + Never Outnumbered could make a decent battlefield control combo. The range is pretty crappy, though, and it is mind-affecting. But still, fun. This guy wound up lacking any BFC abilities, unlike the stormlord idea I played with earlier.

It doesn't look like we have much in the way of BFC, so maybe I should pick it up...

For reference:
(click to show/hide)
No spare feats for Imperious command, I take it?
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2011, 09:11:28 PM »
Frightful Presence already affects an area -- did you mean Daunting Presence, where you can demoralize one target, to use w/ Never Outnumbered?
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Tshern

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Re: Gabriel Lightbringer, Bodiless Deciever
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2011, 09:20:02 PM »
Frightful Presence already affects an area -- did you mean Daunting Presence, where you can demoralize one target, to use w/ Never Outnumbered?
Maybe he is looking for escalating fear effects. First get them shaken with Frightful presence, then hit them with Intimidate and laugh all the way to the bank.
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