Author Topic: Paladin advice  (Read 7202 times)

Offline jforjeff

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Paladin advice
« on: July 24, 2015, 05:02:16 PM »
I know, I know, play Crusader instead.
I know, I know, read the handbook(s).

The divine is calling me. I want to play a PALADIN.

I'm thinking the Fist of Raziel is the best PrC for what I'm wanting.

I'm just curious what you guys think about the build?

Do I want all 10 levels of FoR?

Paladin 10/FoR 10?

What alternative class features should I get?

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 06:59:42 PM »
Charging Smite.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline jforjeff

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 10:13:27 PM »
Charging Smite.

I'll get charging smite. Definitely over a mount. 

Is FoR a good PrC for pally? I've heard about the emissary class that can break the game, but that doesn't interest me.

Offline muktidata

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 695
  • Ephesians 2
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2015, 10:27:27 PM »
Sure, play a Fist of Raziel.
I appreciate the logical, cool-headed responses and the lack of profanity displayed by our community.

Offline Argent Fatalis

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
  • Nature, red in tooth and claw.
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 01:14:43 AM »
Sanctified Mind out of Lords of Madness is actually a pretty good option to at least dip; full BAB, good Fort and Will, 4/5ths casting (or manifesting), some solid Charisma based class features (Partition Mind!), and the only part that sucks are the entry requirements; 2 of Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Psionics) and Sense Motive, as well as at least 1 power point. If you're using Magic-Psionics Transparency, it's actually pretty potent with its Disrupting Blow ability which could knock out SLAs/PLAs for a few turns.

Pious Templar from Complete Divine is another dip worthy option, with full BAB, good Fort and Will, and grants Mettle for a single level. It sucks on the grounds of feats you need Weapon Focus (not fun) and then True Believer, which the latter could be really useful. It also has its own spellcasting progression, but aside from Mettle early on, its not that special.

Hellreaver from the Fiendish Codex II is a really active, almost Tome of Battle style paladin-esque prestige class. Its abilities might not be show stopping, but they're flavorful and are actually really versatile. It is built almost entirely around fighting evil alignment enemies, but it combos well with the Chaotic Good paladin, or any of the variant paladins from Dragon Magazine that get something other than Aura of Courage. It also gives you more to do than swing your weapon at things and hope your Smite Evil lands. Has full BAB, good Will, Mettle and its own point based action economy using free, immediate and swift actions.

Those are just some good things to look into if you really want to go with the paladin ideal.

Offline Dwarfi

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 06:29:57 AM »
As I played with that idea too I would add some thoughts:

1) Prestige Class Paladin: Gets everything a Pala has except that he has 1/2 caster progression and uses cleric list. Starts at Lv5 so you would get the mount at Lv6, everything else from Lv1-5 is gathered in the first 2 Levels now.
You would go Cleric>Fighter or knight to get the required stuff.

2) Want to go for a charger? Halfling outrider is actually a pretty neat class for that.

Offline jforjeff

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 12:03:15 AM »
Still looking for more help to this. I want to play a Holy man.

I know I want to start Paladin and end up in Fist of Raziel.

Should I multiclass? Probably.. but to what? Fighter? Cleric? toB?

I should replace my mount with charge smite.

I don't think I can swing dragon magazine shenanigans, but maybe.

Give me more thoughts and suggestions!

Offline DavidWL

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 01:47:23 AM »
As I played with that idea too I would add some thoughts:
1) Prestige Class Paladin: Gets everything a Pala has except that he has 1/2 caster progression and uses cleric list. Starts at Lv5 so you would get the mount at Lv6, everything else from Lv1-5 is gathered in the first 2 Levels now.
You would go Cleric>Fighter or knight to get the required stuff.

I agree.

Best,
David

Offline jforjeff

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 03:22:31 PM »
I saw someone mention  Paladin 5 / Pious Templar 5 / Fist of Raziel 10

Is that better than Paladin 10 / Fist of Raziel 10?

What other builds?

I've also heard 5 Paladin / 5 Divine Crusader / 10 Fist of Raziel

Is that better than the Pious Templar?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 10:24:13 PM by jforjeff »

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 04:59:49 AM »
Take Battle Blessing as a paladin.  Swift cast nearly every spell.  Good buff.
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline jforjeff

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 01:06:52 PM »
I can't decide on a build, agh!

Paladin 6 / Pious Templar 4/ Fist of Raziel 10
Paladin 6/Fist of Raziel 1/Divine Crusader 2/Fist of Raziel +9 (increasing divine crusader's spells).

Which one?

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 02:54:22 PM »
Take Battle Blessing as a paladin.  Swift cast nearly every spell.  Good buff.

You might even say that it's divine.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Dictum Mortuum

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 03:50:58 AM »
I can't decide on a build, agh!

Paladin 6 / Pious Templar 4/ Fist of Raziel 10
Paladin 6/Fist of Raziel 1/Divine Crusader 2/Fist of Raziel +9 (increasing divine crusader's spells).

Which one?

The second one, depending on the domain.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11325
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline jforjeff

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 03:59:10 AM »
I can't decide on a build, agh!

Paladin 6 / Pious Templar 4/ Fist of Raziel 10
Paladin 6/Fist of Raziel 1/Divine Crusader 2/Fist of Raziel +9 (increasing divine crusader's spells).

Which one?

The second one, depending on the domain.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11325

:bow

Care to elaborate? Is this character still tier 5 like this? Or would it be more tier 4 ish?

Offline Dictum Mortuum

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 05:37:41 AM »
I generally dislike the tier system, but if you're going to be casting spells higher than 4-5, even if it's just one spell per level, then I don't think anyone would consider you tier 5.

So the answer is that it really depends on your domain choice. Time, summoner, strength, war. Wrath gives rhino's rush + righteous might.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline Unbeliever

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2288
  • gentleman gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 10:53:32 AM »
I generally dislike the tier system, but if you're going to be casting spells higher than 4-5, even if it's just one spell per level, then I don't think anyone would consider you tier 5.
I'm with Dictum on this.  The tier system is a useful concept for game design, but there's no reason to get hung up on it.  If your goal is to play a kickass Paladin and you kickass, am holy, and can do so without being easily shut down, then mission accomplished.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2015, 05:00:16 PM »
Recharge Magic ... is a decent way to boost a Paladin.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm

Probably puts a Paladin near the Tier 2/3 border.
'Course the big boys are gonna want it too.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Dwarfi

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 12:55:58 PM »
Depending on what exactly you want to be:
I pesonally really like some of the classes in complete champion.
The purple dragon knight is a group buffer.
and the knight of the chalice, who is basically a demon slayer.

Its far from a powerbuild, but great for roleplay fun.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Paladin advice
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2015, 01:11:17 PM »
SorO's Paladin Replacement
The True Heironeous

Quote from: Progression
Cloistered Cleric 5 / Ordained Champion 3 / Fist of Raziel 1 / Contemplative 1 / Fist of Raziel +9 / Crusader 1
Domains: War, Knowledge & Undeath.
Free: Weapon Focus (war domain)
Free: Extra Turning (undeath domain)
1: Servant of the Heavens required for fist
3: Knowledge Devotion required for fist
6: Holy Warrior +highest war spell to damage
Free: Power Attack give up the knowledge domain's power (worthless at this point)
Free: Extend Spell (planning domain) required for persist
9: Persistent Spell
Free: Bonus Domain! Mmybe choose Cold if you can and Rebuke a Deathless Red Dragon for a mount or something...
12: Divine Metamagic(persistent spell)
15: Blade of Force swift action +highest force to damage and ignores incorporeal
18: Mother Cryst for necromantic empowerment
Rearrange as desired (flaws are helpful), requires worshiping Athena for the domains and reflavoring of OC's worship requirements. I also suggest Rapid Spontaneous casting Divine Power for full BAB as a Swift Action as needed, instead focus your Persistence on things like Greater Visage of the Deity and Necromantic Empowerment. Both of those will consume 14 usages, which means you'll need some items to cover even those two. Nightstick (+4) & Reliquary Holy Symbol (+3) are pretty helpful but there are more. Shroudcrown is the best since it gives you another 3+ChaMod per day, woot.

Highlights & Smiting the Wicked (real smite name may very)
* The Informed Spellstoring Holy Flaming Force Greater Smite Evil: Deals +15d6 fire (oc's flame strike), +[highest force spell] damage (holy warrior), gains the Holy property for DR-bypass and +2d6, +[knowledge-10/2] to attack & damage, confirms crits and chain smacks 5 nearby targets for 2d6, delivers up to a 9th level spell, and it does everything Smite Evil. And that's a mouthful. Really it's a combination of several Smite-like abilities that your introduced to and learn to use as you level up so don't worry about memorizing everything and don't feel intimidated by it.
* It also has Magic Circile Against Evil because normal Paladins keep people from running away in fear, but Great Paladins keep you from being Dominated and attacking teammates.
* It's focused on basic combat potential so it feels like a Super-Paladin. But it can keep up with an optimized group thanks to it's nearly full spellcasting progression which goes up to 9th level Spells with Persist. Very Maneuvers at capstone serves as a nice introduction to the system.

Don't forget to look up Class Boosters in the Cleric, Paladin, and Sorcerer (for cha) sections.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 01:33:38 PM by SorO_Lost »