Author Topic: Discussion  (Read 34228 times)

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Discussion
« on: June 29, 2012, 01:16:47 AM »
This will be the only thread in this sub-board in which you will see any usernames besides mine in the top-left corner of a post. I'm going to lock all of the other threads, simply because I would like them to look as clean and ordered as gleaming toys in factory-sealed plastic boxes. Please do not hesitate to voice any questions, comments, criticisms, suggestions, and miscellaneous reactions you might have as a result of anything you read in this board. And... go!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:20:43 AM by TheGeometer »

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2012, 01:34:38 AM »
Just a note, if you want any of your earlier threads moved here, just drop us a request with the thread link.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2012, 10:45:00 AM »
I'm glad you took my advice.   :)

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2012, 10:15:34 PM »
Just a note, if you want any of your earlier threads moved here, just drop us a request with the thread link.

Thanks, but I think I'll start from scratch. Copying and pasting the earlier classes over here will allow me to make the necessary changes while also getting rid of the other posts.

I'm glad you took my advice.   :)

Thanks for the advice in the first place!

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 10:19:25 PM »
You're welcome, glad to see that everything will be all organized.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 12:16:47 AM »
The list of base classes is up in the Magic of Residuum section, as well as notes on the multiclassing issue that I had avoided for so long. Feel free to check if you werre curious about the other 2 classes that had not been revealed until now. Tomorrow, I'll move the Residuon and Priest of Legacies over to this board, making changes as I go, and finally get around to posting the completed Spellknight.

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 01:07:24 AM »
So when do you and I build a Residuum/Rituals hybrid?   :smirk
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 01:21:58 PM »
So when do you and I build a Residuum/Rituals hybrid?   :smirk

Hmm... when I finish the base classes, we'll see what we can do about making a... Resitualist. :) I'll add that to the list of dual-progression PrCs planned for this system, along with the ones that progress arcane magic, divine magic, psionics, incarnum, and binding. Man, it's going to be hard to come up with enough single-progression PrCs to top that.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 02:05:41 PM by TheGeometer »

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4503
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 03:26:53 PM »
I know the feeling. Looking back at MaI, I had about 8 different dual progression classes and only 2 or 3 single progression PrCs.

Some ideas, if you're looking for residuum-only class inspiration...
- Building up wisps of residuum into full-fledged spell-like effects that actually take actions to use.
- A summoning-focused class. There are enough summoning techniques, you can probably do something interesting.
- A sort of anti-residuon with a lot of counter spells and anti-magic, possibly also getting some bonus residuum from negated spells.
- A multi-elementalist. Unlike normal elemental mages who like to focus on only one, the residuum elementalist takes dregs and scraps of all elements and smushes them together.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 04:04:20 PM »
I know the feeling. Looking back at MaI, I had about 8 different dual progression classes and only 2 or 3 single progression PrCs.

Some ideas, if you're looking for residuum-only class inspiration...
- Building up wisps of residuum into full-fledged spell-like effects that actually take actions to use.
- A summoning-focused class. There are enough summoning techniques, you can probably do something interesting.
- A sort of anti-residuon with a lot of counter spells and anti-magic, possibly also getting some bonus residuum from negated spells.
- A multi-elementalist. Unlike normal elemental mages who like to focus on only one, the residuum elementalist takes dregs and scraps of all elements and smushes them together.

Thanks, Garryl! The first idea is actually really similar to an idea for a PrC I already had, the Arch-Residuon. It's the Archmage of the Residuum world, as the name would suggest. It learns "greater techniques" that cost way more than 9 RP, and are a lot closer in power to spells, but I think I'll keep those as free actions. The other 3 ideas sound really good as well - I'll definitely end up using some of them.

By the way, the Residuon is now up. There are some more techniques I'd like to change, which I've removed for now. I'll work more on that later.

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 04:08:26 PM »
How 'bout an evil class a la necrocarnate that destroys residuum?
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 04:21:17 PM »
How 'bout an evil class a la necrocarnate that destroys residuum?

Not bad. I'll definitely have some sort of evil PrC - after all, I wrote in the "Residuons in the World" section of the class that they are often ridiculed and sometimes want revenge. Mwahahahaha!

Spellknight-based PrCs seem to be the easiest to come up with. One that rages and one that steals spells and turns it into residuum are the first that come to mind, though the latter might be better as a feat for multiclassing Spelthieves.

Offline Wrex

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 584
  • Large and In Charge.
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2012, 04:50:10 PM »
How can youd estroy residuum? Isn;t more created whenever someone casts spells? Would such a class/PrC focus on manipulating Dead Magic zones, by way of voiding all energies from a location by drawing residuum away from it?


I just had an idea. What if there was a Sort of Necromantic Residuon, who used the residuum of life? He would have a book or tome or recording medium of some sort, in which he puts down the names of creatures, probably with some form of material component for the ink. Then, he can call forth these creatures as diffrent forms of Undead, for a residuum investment. If it dies, he is unable to use that portion of his capacity for a period of time. He would also get a small number of buffing techniques, and probably Pain for healing his minions, to spend any spare Residuum on.


I dunno, just a random idea I had.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 11:09:23 AM »
Not so sure about the book or the life-stealing, but the focus on undead seems to be a good idea, especially with the newly improved Undeath technique.

On another note, the Priest of Legacies is up. After I make a few more changes to the techniques, the Spellknight will follow.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 12:26:32 AM »
I just posted the Spellknight, and the technique list will be up by tomorrow. As this is a new class, I would really appreciate any comments and criticisms about it that you can give me. Thanks!

EDIT: I just read through the Spellshaping Codices' Sublime Shaper (great job, by the way, DonQuixote) and noticed quite a few similarities to the Spellknight, especially the quote at the top. Before anyone else sees the connection, I swear I didn't plagiarize, and it was an understandable coincidence, since the ideas are both so close thematically.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 12:54:00 AM by TheGeometer »

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2012, 06:54:07 PM »
Hey Geometer, I just added Residuum to my list of pre-approved homebrew in the High Arcana game.  You're welcome to come join and give it a test-drive, if you like.
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2012, 01:23:53 PM »
Hey Geometer, I just added Residuum to my list of pre-approved homebrew in the High Arcana game.  You're welcome to come join and give it a test-drive, if you like.

Thanks, I'm flattered that that you like my homebrew that much. The system isn't even close to finished, though. It won't even be playable until I post some feats. I was kind of waiting for more feedback on the Spellknight (isn't it too dippable?) before posting the Magician and the feats, but I might as well put them up now anyway.

As for joining High Arcana, it sounds really interesting, and I might in the near future. I'll add more to this sub-board first, though. I feel like I have an obligation to get this done and make Residuum a complete subsystem.

Offline VennDygrem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4587
  • Exceptionally Average
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2012, 09:45:23 PM »
I'm really interested in these classes and system. If you just get the feats up, I think that at least makes the classes that are posted playtestable, as I might be interested in giving one of them a shot in High Arcana if another of my ideas doesn't pan out.

Offline TheGeometer

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2012, 12:52:01 AM »
The Magician and a list of Residuum Feats is finally done, which means that this system is now finally playable! I'm going to quickly go over the previous classes to change anything inconsistent. Meanwhile...

Can I get some feedback on the Magician and the feats? Anything too strong, or too weak? I especially would like to hear about the Magician's Secrets, and whether anything about that should change.

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4503
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2012, 02:50:17 PM »
Magician

Seems odd that the Magician is Cha-based for implementing, but uses Intelligence for Magician's Secret, but then uses Charisma again instead of Int for the Extra Secret feat.

Magician's Secret should spell out the save DC. Since it's an SLA, it's presumably Cha-based, but it should be stated explicitly for ease of use. Ditto Spell Mimicry, although since it isn't an SLA, which stat is used is up in the air.

The RP cost for Counterspell seems a bit low. RP are a lot less valuable than spell levels. Since techniques have neither schools nor subschools, I don't think this ability works at all as written, though.

What's the action cost to use Arcane Surge?



Feats generally look good. A few issues, though.

Modify Metamagic is a bit unclear on how many RP is costs to reduce a metamagic's cost for more than 3 levels. Assuming that people will follow an undefined pattern is a bad idea, and any mathematician will tell you that if the first three numbers are 5, 10, 20, then the next one could just as easily be 40 as it could be 0 or -397 or pi. If there are ever any PrCs that let a spellcaster progress alongside an implementing class, Modify Metamagic will be too strong. The amount of metamagic reduction it can grant is on par with the 10th level capstone of several PrCs (Dweomerkeeper, Incantatrix), with the potential to be even greater with more than 5 RP. Since you get your RP back every turn, the cost is negligible, and since prepared casters apply metamagic at the time of spell preparation, they don't even pay that momentary cost in combat. Finally, the feat needs text to stop it from lowering spell slot adjustments below 0.

Pray for Health is a bit open ended, and can get relatively high level spells at relatively low level (Cha 22 at level 1 is easily achievable, and someone in Sirpercival's High Arcana game is shooting for a Cha of 40 at level 6). The wording implies a replacement of the spell's normal targeting, which may have unintended consequences (like multitarget spells getting the shaft, or spells that target by type being applied to creatures of a normally invalid type). The targeting selection requires neither a willing creature nor an ally, so beware of offensive uses of this ability (at the least, Cure spells on undead, and at the most, homebrewed offensive healing spells). Finally, healing is a subschool, not a descriptor.

Technique Mastery should say "Choose a technique for which you have the Favored Technique feat". Also, having an ability modifier of +17 requires a score of 44, which I don't think is intended. Should that requirement be "Primary implementing ability score 17" instead? I would be very careful with this feat , as choosing a single, expensive technique would have ridiculous benefits (spend 18 RP to get the benefit of 117 RP, for example).