Improved sorcerer casting

[RobbyPants]

I've been thinking about sorcerers lately, and I was thinking about modifying their spell progression. There are two things I wanted to look at and bounce off you guys:

1) Even casting progression
One thing I hated about sorcerers is how they get their new spell levels on even-numbered levels, where as the good casters get their spells a level earlier. Is there actually a good reason for this? Given that people tend to rate sorcerers as behind clerics, druids, and wizards on power, I'd like to examine a progression that changes that.

The following two tables are pretty much a straight port of the sorcerer's spells/day and spells known tables, but with the new spell levels coming online at odd-numbered levels:

Sorcerer spells per day:

Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
_________________________
1     5 3 - - - - - - - -
2     6 4 - - - - - - - -
3     6 5 3 - - - - - - -
4     6 6 4 - - - - - - -
5     6 6 5 3 - - - - - -
6     6 6 6 4 - - - - - -
7     6 6 6 5 3 - - - - -
8     6 6 6 6 4 - - - - -
9     6 6 6 6 5 3 - - - -
10    6 6 6 6 6 4 - - - -
11    6 6 6 6 6 5 3 - - -
12    6 6 6 6 6 6 4 - - -
13    6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 - -
14    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 - -
15    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 -
16    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 -
17    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
18    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
19    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5
20    6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
_________________________

Sorcerer spells known:

Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
_________________________
1     4 2 - - - - - - - -
2     5 2 - - - - - - - -
3     5 3 1 - - - - - - -
4     6 3 2 - - - - - - -
5     6 4 2 1 - - - - - -
6     7 4 3 2 - - - - - -
7     7 5 3 2 1 - - - - -
8     8 5 4 3 2 - - - - -
9     8 5 4 3 2 1 - - - -
10    9 5 5 4 3 2 - - - -
11    9 5 5 4 3 2 1 - - -
12    9 5 5 4 4 3 2 - - -
13    9 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 - -
14    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 - -
15    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 1 -
16    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 -
17    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
18    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
19    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
20    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3
_________________________

2) 1 known spell of the top level
This issue bothers me far less than the other, but I don't like that sorcerers only get one spell known of their highest level when they first learn it. This following progression is based off of the above table (so, new spells at odd levels), but I made two changes:
1) You get another 1st level spell at 2nd level instead of 3rd.
2) Each odd level from 3rd and on, you start with 2 spells of the highest level known.
So, it looks like this:

Sorcerer spells known:

Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
_________________________
1     4 2 - - - - - - - -
2     5 3 - - - - - - - -
3     5 3 2 - - - - - - -
4     6 3 2 - - - - - - -
5     6 4 2 2 - - - - - -
6     7 4 3 2 - - - - - -
7     7 5 3 2 2 - - - - -
8     8 5 4 3 2 - - - - -
9     8 5 4 3 2 2 - - - -
10    9 5 5 4 3 2 - - - -
11    9 5 5 4 3 2 2 - - -
12    9 5 5 4 4 3 2 - - -
13    9 5 5 4 4 3 2 2 - -
14    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 - -
15    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 2 -
16    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 -
17    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 2
18    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
19    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
20    9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3
_________________________

So, I'm mostly interested in the first point, but I'm curious about your thoughts on both.

Is the progression in point #1 fine? I really can't see it breaking anything. Sorcerers will meet the prereqs for some feats and PrCs a level earlier, but no earlier than a wizard would, anyway. I don't expect this to make them better than wizards (or even as good as), but I'm hoping it'd make them a little more fun to play.

[Stratovarius]

I don't see anything wrong with either progression - you've obviously bumped their power noticeably, but they still aren't going to run neck and neck with Batman and CoDzilla or the StP Erudite.

[RobbyPants]

I don't see anything wrong with either progression - you've obviously bumped their power noticeably, but they still aren't going to run neck and neck with Batman and CoDzilla or the StP Erudite.

I figure the first point is a boost in power, but not a huge boost in power. It's basically the same power, one level earlier, in line with the other classes.

The second point is more of a direct improvement of their power. I agree that I don't think it will throw them ahead of the prepared casters.

[Stratovarius]

I figure the first point is a boost in power, but not a huge boost in power. It's basically the same power, one level earlier, in line with the other classes.

The second point is more of a direct improvement of their power. I agree that I don't think it will throw them ahead of the prepared casters.
[/quote]

Interestingly, I was looking at it the other way around - knowing a higher level of spells is much more important that one more top level spell known. A 5th level sorcerer (if the changes were split apart) would either know 1 3rd level spell or 2 2nd level spells. I'd certainly bet on the 3rd level spell.

[RobbyPants]

Interestingly, I was looking at it the other way around - knowing a higher level of spells is much more important that one more top level spell known. A 5th level sorcerer (if the changes were split apart) would either know 1 3rd level spell or 2 2nd level spells. I'd certainly bet on the 3rd level spell.

No, you're right.

Of the two things I brought up, getting higher level spells earlier is the bigger boost. I'm not seeing that at first because I'm trying to get them on par with other casters... at least in that regard.

Still, those two things together: do you think they're still fine?

[Stratovarius]

Still, those two things together: do you think they're still fine?

If the sorcerer is in a world with other Tier 1/Tier 2 characters, the changes won't be a problem at all.