Author Topic: General Discussion and Sugestions  (Read 75395 times)

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2013, 06:12:48 PM »
Depends on what exactly is desired.
If you want a magician whose primal power is the use of a martial discipline that can be enhanced with spells.
Or if you want a spellcaster that has access to a special tweak of her own magic in the form of spellcards.

I went with the later, seeing how magicians are, well, spellcasters before anything else.
I see no problem with the former. That is just my interpretation.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 06:14:52 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2013, 06:26:20 PM »
Well, right now my discipline falls under the "spellcaster that has acess to a special tweak of her own magic in the form of spellcards", since basically all of the maneuvers are dependant on you having prepared spells ready to use. If you run out of spells, the school becomes mostly useless. The stances allow you to get more uses from your limited slots, assuming you don't mind having to rely mostly on destructive spells.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2013, 06:38:38 PM »
Aye, that'll depend on the martial discipline, I suppose. If they are indeed quite useless without spells.

If it is meant to be only used by casters it shouldn't be too dependant on the actual base class otherwise other builds wishing to get access to it would get an empty and useless discipline.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2013, 05:49:15 PM »
Yanno, legacy weapons for some of these martial schools could be pretty cool. With how the ToB schools have some too.

Like Shanghai for Doll Judgement or Youmu's Roukanken & Hakurouken for Ancient Temple. Or something like that.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2013, 05:57:14 PM »
Shanghai isn't a specific doll.

Now, the Hakurei Yin-Yang orbs could theoretically be candidates (though I don't remember the system as much good)

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2013, 06:01:33 PM »
Well, that wiki says it is :P
There's also Hourai I guess.
I mean, even if not specific dolls, there is still a name there for them lol.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2013, 06:06:01 PM »
If it's the wikia wiki, it's less than reliable.

Nevertheless, if you pay attention to the spellcards they're from, Alice has a whole bunch of the things. Besides, there's already a feat to create a unique doll companion. :p

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2013, 06:07:58 PM »
Oh, thats a good point. That carrionette thing, right?

I guess a legacy weapon for Doll Judgement would take more thought then. Not as obvious as some other characters.

Now that I think about it, the Youkai-forged blades you get from the feat for Ancient Temple could already qualify as a sort of legacy weapon that they could awaken into later...

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2013, 06:16:36 PM »
Everything Hakurouken and Roukanken can do is folded into the basic blades and the maneuvers.

Kaguya's stuff is the very basis of her maneuvers.

The items that could qualify tend to be either not yet implemented (Marisa's stuff) or have really weird effects (Yin-Yang Orbs). Legacy weapons are also... kinda bad, from what I remember.

Interestingly, the only other items I can think of that are important enough and not folded into maneuvers are all from UFO. Palaquin Ship, that lantern, Byakuren's scroll.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2013, 06:48:15 PM »
I already made one for Desire Drive (7StarSword) but I intend to post a few together instead of one by one. It'll give me a better overview of them in general that way. Trying to stick to the formula of normal legacy weapons, recycling their abilities in an order that doesn't make them suck and making new ones inspired by those already in place.

If all goes well, I should be able to finish Divine Flame (that sweet starcloak) before too long.
I also had a concept for Ancient Temple. The blades come with the feat, so I was going for a special sheath instead, the one with the flower strapped to it.
Border of Life is a special fan, I guess.
YingYang Orb is a given.
Doll Judgement... probably some kind of spear for a doll to use. Fashioned like a long needle, maybe.
Cryst Silver would likely be an icepick. Kidding.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2013, 06:51:44 PM »
... the cloak looks awesome but doesn't actually do anything. Same deal with the fan, and for the doll you're just making stuff up. :|

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2013, 07:07:27 PM »
Yeeeaaah....I guess you're kinda right on that, Raineh Daze.

Some of the things Anomander mentioned, like Utsuho's cape, Yuyuko's fan, ect, probably stuff that would work as just normal items in that Kourindou's Shop thread  :p
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 07:10:14 PM by ketaro »

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2013, 07:16:13 PM »
There comes a point where there is no harm in making stuff up, then adjust them when a better concept idea comes up.

New idea for Doll Judgement would be a weapon in the form of strings, maybe kinda like a garrotte.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2013, 07:25:41 PM »
There comes a point where there is no harm in making stuff up, then adjust them when a better concept idea comes up.

There definetely is harm in doing discipline-specific magic items when said disciplines are already so borderline strong. If you want to do magic items, do them as generic as possible and put them in Korindou's shop, otherwise you're just trying to start a straight-out power creep competition, meaning they'll get auto-banned in my games.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2013, 07:29:55 PM »
Yikes. Power creeping?
You may not know it but discipline specific legacy weapons aren't so discipline specific. They aren't that good to begin with and non-initiators can use them just about as well as any master of their key discipline. The key discipline is for the theme more than anything else.

In other news, it appears that 13.5 is coming out soon in its full version along with the demo for 14. Very soon.
Making a decent school for Nitori will finally be possible. Beware the science (and water...)!
I'll probably consider reviewing the disciplines once Miko and Futo's moves are all released. It seems Utsuho won't be playable despite that one screenshot.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 10:08:49 PM by Anomander »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2013, 05:43:36 PM »
Byakuren would eventually get a school, too.

This appears to involve kicking people in the face by flying into the air.

Yeah, coming out Sunday whilst I'll be at a different expo thing in the UK. :lmao

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2013, 05:53:53 PM »
Yikes. Power creeping?
You may not know it but discipline specific legacy weapons aren't so discipline specific. They aren't that good to begin with and non-initiators can use them just about as well as any master of their key discipline. The key discipline is for the theme more than anything else.
It doesn't matter that the original ones are crap. I'm assured you would work on taking care of that, just as you made a base class by picking up the marshal and throwing in save-or-die, don't die when you're killed, exp/gold bonus, a bunch of immunities, planet-throwing, turn undead and a bunch of other goodies before adding in maneuvers and stances. :p

In other news, it appears that 13.5 is coming out soon in its full version along with the demo for 14. Very soon.
Making a decent school for Nitori will finally be possible. Beware the science (and water...)!
I'll probably consider reviewing the disciplines once Miko and Futo's moves are all released. It seems Utsuho won't be playable despite that one screenshot.

Like there isn't some other dozens of characters with full sets of spellcards waiting to be done? I sometimes wonder why you give the latest game characters so much attention over the previous ones.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2013, 05:58:27 PM »
Utsuho's cape looks awesome. And she tosses suns at people. Definitely the awesomeness factor with this one.

... we ought to keep a list of Windows characters with schools, or some way involved in schools (or earmarked for forbidden schools), I guess. @_@

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2013, 06:13:08 PM »
Yeah, I'd try to make them good weapons. Mostly by using existing legacy weapon abilities with the occasional adjustments to fit the theme. But in the end it remains a magic weapon that isn't more powerful by being used with by masters of a given school. Pretty much like the other legacy tob weapons.

Quote
Like there isn't some other dozens of characters with full sets of spellcards waiting to be done? I sometimes wonder why you give the latest game characters so much attention over the previous ones.
I give attention to characters I like.
I feel somewhat apathetic to most of the other characters.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2013, 06:21:14 PM »
Yeah, I'd try to make them good weapons. Mostly by using existing legacy weapon abilities with the occasional adjustments to fit the theme. But in the end it remains a magic weapon that isn't more powerful by being used with by masters of a given school. Pretty much like the other legacy tob weapons.
Hint: legacy weapons are broken in all senses of the word. Several options are horrible, several options are imba, and if you're basing your work on that horrible, terrible book, then I honestly doubt any good will come out of that.

Quote
Like there isn't some other dozens of characters with full sets of spellcards waiting to be done? I sometimes wonder why you give the latest game characters so much attention over the previous ones.
I give attention to characters I like.
I feel somewhat apathetic to most of the other characters.
Doesn't change the part where the characters you like just happen to be the protagonists of the latest titles.