Author Topic: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread  (Read 14907 times)

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2013, 08:47:10 PM »
Shouldn't it say were-sewerm instead of were-serpent?

Also, were-octopus gives you Imp Grab without size limits that deals bite damage if it succeeds. It also gives some other nice benefits (see spoiler below):

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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2013, 09:10:28 PM »
Tauric octopus-were sewerm goliath?
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Offline brujon

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2013, 09:19:03 PM »
The tooth of Ahazu (Dungeon 143, p58) gives you an effective size increase for grappling.  It's a 6,000 gp item that doesn't occupy a body slot.  Like other teeth of Dahver-Nar, there's only one tooth of Ahazar, despite the fact that it has a market price.  It also gives you penalties if you don't act like a kleptomaniac.

This is ridiculous. How can a one of a kind item even have a market price? I get that it's not uber powerful, not even minor artifact level, but still.
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Offline MirddinEmris

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 10:35:53 PM »
If you added Wildshaping ranger, you could also mention Master of Many Forms - get Huge forms as soon as 12 level and eventually get Colossal shape. Good for grapple and many other things (scouting in cat form for example).

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 10:47:27 PM »
Huge is the only one you need to grapple any creature
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Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2013, 01:09:32 AM »
Warmind seems like quite a good PRC for a grappler. Full BAB + PsiWar power list is nice enough but Sweeping Strike is actually a really good ability for grapplers because it allows all your melee attacks to apply to two squares equally. With Improved Grab you can pull people into your square... :devil.Being able to initiate even more grapples at once is also nice.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 01:58:14 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 12:06:53 PM »
Holy crap that's good, maneuvers really benefit from that
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 08:57:49 PM »
Eldritch Claws (Dr 358) + Grappling Blast (Dr 358) + Beast Strike (Dr 355) = Fun times on grapple checks.  Eldritch Claw damage is equal to Unarmed damage + EB's normal damage, and with Beast Strike unarmed strikes do unarmed damage + claw damage.  Effectively, it's 2x unarmed damage.  Add in Grappling Blast and it's 2x unarmed and 2x EB damage.  And since Grappling Blast grants a circumstance bonus on the next grapple made within the next round equal to half the damage done by the EB... Yeah, it can get kinda crazy, assuming the original check goes through.

I'll see if I can put together a build for it.

One last thing: The Fear No Binds feat from Dr 355 requires IUS and 6 ranks in Escape Artist to nullify the penalty to attack rolls made while grappling, among other things.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 11:00:26 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2013, 10:37:36 PM »
This handbook hasn't been updated in what seems like a while. I'm not trying to bug you-I understand that you're extremely busy what with the baby and all- but would you be able to give a rough estimate of when you might be able to update that guide again? I'm fine with waiting a long time but it would be nice to know approximately how long to wait.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2013, 12:04:01 AM »
How would Imp Grab work with a War Hulk 10? Simultaneously grab at every creature within reach?

would you need Greater Multigrab to use body parts w/o penalty?
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2013, 01:12:51 AM »
That's a screwy combo...  Enough so that it's likely to depend on DM interpretation more than anything else.  I think most sane DMs would say if you tried to start a grapple then your forgo your other attacks on further enemies because your attacking limb isn't free to hit them.

But, strictly-speaking, it might allow grabbing everything and grappling with it.  And yeah, it'd probably require Greater Multigrab to work fully.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 01:20:58 AM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2013, 01:30:34 AM »
Actually, you can take a -20 penalty to grapple w just that limb. Those feats just reduce this penalty.
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Offline Coidzor

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2013, 02:28:35 PM »
In the list of powers and spells that add natural weapons, you missed Form of Doom (Psychic Warrior 6) which gives 4 tentacle attacks, 2d8+1/2Str, though it explicitly doesn't stack with metamorphosis.

Nice to see this effort, since I was working on making Mr. Stab'n'Grab workable by RAW, but never really looked at grappling as worthwhile.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2021, 08:05:14 PM »
*ahem*
Oh forgotten thread
lost to the ages,
Arise and return
to the frontmost pages


So, there's a PRC that seems to have been missed which is really bloody important to the shapeshifting direction in the form of Primeval. It provides a shape-changing effect that operates like Polymorph, except that it adds the ability scores, meaning that you can directly stack your templated to Hell and back beatstick with an 8RHD or less Animal up to one size larger (main Huge target for a Goliath or Half-Giant seems to be the Dire Snake). You can also trade Wild Shape uses, so it might actually receive Wild Shape benefits, but... The wording is quite the clusterfuck as to what it counts as.

And if that's not enough it gives slight improvements to both your base ability scores and the chosen form with more levels. And it's a typeless bonus based on being a different form, so it should stack with everything. With its BAB +8 requirement, you can actually take the first few levels of Black Blood Cultist first to reach level 8 of it later. To partially copy the existing build stubs for a very blunt preliminary version:


Grarg, Nature Appreciator
Half-Orc Wild Shape Ranger 1/Goliath Spirit Bear City Brawler Barbarian 1/Ranger +3/Black Blood Cultist 2/Ranger+1/Totemist 2/Primeval (Megaraptor) 3/BBC +6/Primeval +1
Feats: Track(b), Self-Sufficient (1st), Endurance(b), Cobalt Rage (3rd), Improved Unarmed Strike (b), Azure Toughness (6th), Improved Grapple(b) (7th), Bonus Essentia (9th), Open Lesser Chakra (Arms) (12th), Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (15th), Cobalt Charge (18th)

Strength score is 18+2(Half-Orc)+12 (Primeval)+2(Regression)+4 (Rage), for a total of 24 Strength at all times and another 16 on a pair of 3/day buffs. BAB is +17 if I'm counting correctly. Then you have 7 Essentia, 6 of which is on making Girallon Arms +12 to Grapple and +6 to your Claws, then the remaining point can go to the Arm-bound Kraken Mantle for a +1, for +15 off the Incarnum package. Add in +4 for Improved Grapple, and you have access to +57 if I have my math right.

This is not the best Grapple output for using Primeval by a long shot, and the ordering is doubtlessly a disaster, being as it's a rough draft, but it has solid damage potential going for it owing to combining a particularly nasty Wild Shape form with extra buffs packing Totemist behind it and Black Blood Cultist turning this into an every-grapple-check phenomenon.

...If this leads to an update to the handbook, please double-check the numbers.