Author Topic: Finding our +respect posts  (Read 12229 times)

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2013, 02:26:54 PM »
I don't know what universe you live in but I typically try my hardest to get rid of pennies and to keep $100 bills.

In any case, I think the whole quantity/quality thing is a false dichotomy. Even if the system ImperatorK is proposing existed, we would have no context and so no real idea of what the respect actually meant.

For example, you can get +3 for maintaining a database of all the homebrew on the site  or you can get +5 for having a cool username.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 02:29:22 PM »
A universe where I hoard and only get rid of pennies when I realise they're taking up too much space? :lmao

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 02:56:39 PM »
You said quality is more important than quantity.
Yes, that's what I said. A 100 dollar bill is of better quality than a jar of pennies. It's lighter, takes less space, is less annoying than the jar to count, can easily be of greater value (I didn't say it's 100 dollars worth of pennies BTW), easier to keep track of (serial numbers), costs less to make (I think) or at least takes less materials (paper and some dyes vs. pounds of metal).

Even if the system ImperatorK is proposing existed, we would have no context and so no real idea of what the respect actually meant.
And that's somehow different from now... how?

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For example, you can get +3 for maintaining a database of all the homebrew on the site
Are you one of those 3 4 people that upvoted his thread?

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or you can get +5 for having a cool username.
If 5 people gave respect to him for his username than clearly it was earned. Or are you saying that some of the more respected users on this boards give respect foolishly?
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Offline Agita

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2013, 03:07:59 PM »
We've had discussions about this before, and it's been said by mods (IIRC) that there's no real way to do that.
This is correct. There's no way to implement the suggested change.
If we wanted to do something like that, we'd have the swap the system out altogether (which would reset respect scores across the board), and if we were to do that, I think we'd either do something different or just remove respect.
One alternative system we've considered is keeping post-specific upvotes but removing the total scores. It still wouldn't allow searching for upvoted posts, but it would remove the number under your avatar, which is the main acute incentive to look them up by virtue of always being in front of your nose.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2013, 03:30:40 PM »
Even if the system ImperatorK is proposing existed, we would have no context and so no real idea of what the respect actually meant.
And that's somehow different from now... how?

It's not different. It's exactly the same as now. That's my point.

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or you can get +5 for having a cool username.
If 5 people gave respect to him for his username than clearly it was earned. Or are you saying that some of the more respected users on this boards give respect foolishly?

That's another false dichotomy. What I'm saying is that respect is given for many reasons, not all equal or even comparable. Which is why no system that does not provide access to the context (IE: the posts in question) will provide significantly more information than the current one does.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2013, 03:47:17 PM »
I'm curious if it can be made so that you can see the respect count when going through an account's "show posts" area.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2013, 04:01:50 PM »
One alternative system we've considered is keeping post-specific upvotes but removing the total scores. It still wouldn't allow searching for upvoted posts, but it would remove the number under your avatar, which is the main acute incentive to look them up by virtue of always being in front of your nose.
I'd be down with that.

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It's not different. It's exactly the same as now. That's my point.
But it at least would show quality over quantity.

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Which is why no system that does not provide access to the context (IE: the posts in question) will provide significantly more information than the current one does.
Firstly - my suggestion was an addendum to Jackinthegreen's suggestion. So yeah, there would be context.
Secondly - even if the first point would not be true, it still would be better than it is now, because even though you wouldn't know the context, you would know for a fact that something the user did was smart/funny/helpful enough to gain respect of multiple people. And besides, who said that the point is to provide more information? It is to provide different, more important, IMO, information.

There's a reason you ignored my second question?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 04:04:18 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2013, 04:15:46 PM »
Quantity has a quality all of its own.

Especially when it's a measure of how many times you've been up-voted. :eh

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2013, 04:19:48 PM »
Quantity has a quality all of its own.
I prefer actual quality over second rate quality.

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Especially when it's a measure of how many times you've been up-voted. :eh
Eh... :???
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2013, 04:20:21 PM »
But it at least would show quality over quantity.

Only if you believe that number of upvotes on a single post maps to some kind of objective "quality." 

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Firstly - my suggestion was an addendum to Jackinthegreen's suggestion. So yeah, there would be context.

We had at the time confirmation that Jack's suggestion was impossible to implement and have had more since. We haven't had such confirmation about yours so if it were to exist it would do so without Jack's.

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Secondly - even if the first point would not be true, it still would be better than it is now, because even though you wouldn't know the context, you would know for a fact that something the user did was smart/funny/helpful enough to gain respect of multiple people.

In my experience, the degree of smart/funny/helpfulness has much less to do with number of upvotes than its visibility. So all we'd  know is who had the most people see their smart/funny/helpful post when they were in an upvoting mood.

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And besides, who said that the point is to provide more information? It is to provide different, more important, IMO, information.

Why not provide both sets of information and let people decide for themselves which is more important?

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There's a reason you ignored my second question?

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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2013, 04:37:55 PM »
But it at least would show quality over quantity.

Only if you believe that number of upvotes on a single post maps to some kind of objective "quality." 

This.

I for one don't think that it does.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2013, 04:50:32 PM »
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Only if you believe that number of upvotes on a single post maps to some kind of objective "quality."
It does. Getting many upvotes from many posts just means you post a lot. Can you believe that I have 11 upvotes? It's quite surprising even to me.

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We had at the time confirmation that Jack's suggestion was impossible to implement and have had more since.
... so? Please re-read my first post. You'll see that it was pretty clearly an "if they'll do manage to make this kind of complex changes" scenario, thus still a part of Jack's idea.

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We haven't had such confirmation about yours so if it were to exist it would do so without Jack's.
Dunno about you but to me it's pretty obvious that my idea is at least slightly more complicated to implement than Jack's, so if anything, it would be his idea without mine.
Also, IIRC, we had confirmation about my idea in another thread (my thread and my suggestion, that's why I know), and it was pretty much the same reason. I assume that's also why Agita didn't address my first post here.

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In my experience, the degree of smart/funny/helpfulness has much less to do with number of upvotes than its visibility. So all we'd  know is who had the most people see their smart/funny/helpful post when they were in an upvoting mood.
That's unavoidable. And also a con of current system.

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Why not provide both sets of information and let people decide for themselves which is more important?
I guess, if people wouldn't mind too much numbers under their avatar.

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Yup.
I see. Interesting.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2013, 04:53:43 PM »
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That's unavoidable. And also a con of current system.

Even worse with your proposal, since it only takes one post into consideration.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2013, 05:08:18 PM »
Actually, that's a pro, because it means that the post was just so good.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2013, 05:10:06 PM »
What, it's a pro that one post made in a busy topic when lots of people have free time is rated much better than something made at a different time when hardly anyone's on? Not seeing the logic.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2013, 05:36:17 PM »
Posts don't vanish 5 minutes after they're posted.
A post might have many upvotes because it was posted in a "busy topic", or it might not. Doesn't really matter. You know why? Because from those many posts that got small upvotes some are also posted in busy topics. If none of them has a bigger number of upvotes, it stands to reason that none of them was good enough.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2013, 06:25:45 PM »
There is no way to make an upvoting system actually have any meaning.

Offline Libertad

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2013, 06:53:14 PM »
There is no way to make an upvoting system actually have any meaning.

I agree.  Let's upvote Nanshork's post as a show of solidarity for this meaningless one-up-man-ship. :)

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM »
There is no way to make an upvoting system actually have any meaning.

I agree.  Let's upvote Nanshork's post as a show of solidarity for this meaningless one-up-man-ship. :)

Glad I'm not the only one who had that idea!  lol

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Finding our +respect posts
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2013, 07:37:53 PM »
There is no way to make an upvoting system actually have any meaning.

I agree.  Let's upvote Nanshork's post as a show of solidarity for this meaningless one-up-man-ship. :)

Glad I'm not the only one who had that idea!  lol

I think that's officially my most upvoted post now.

I feel the love!   :cool