As always I hope for some feedback and responseI'm not sure Range Increments has anything to do with Whirlwind's limitation of being within your Reach but you can replace Recaster, use a Runestaff to access the Spell and there are better ways to reduce Metamagic cost without limiting your self to a twice per day trick.
As always I hope for some feedback and responseI'm not sure Range Increments has anything to do with Whirlwind's limitation of being within your Reach but you can replace Recaster, use a Runestaff to access the Spell and there are better ways to reduce Metamagic cost without limiting your self to a twice per day trick.
Also, to scale a Sorcerer/Martial Adept/JPM can cast a Smiting Storm/Scalding Touch and use Adamantine Hurricane to deal his melee damage, +9d6/+13d6 damage, plus a Save vs Stun/Dazed, with a +4 bonus to Attack Rolls, to each opponent within reach, and can hit them each of them twice. Then I suppose if you wanted to get into it some, Raging Mongoose can give you another two attacks against the main threat and if the user were a Necropoliton with a Greater Wounding Marrow Finding Lifedrinker each hit would deal 3 Con damage and 1 Negative Level which helps to prevent them from making their Save so they lose a turn and you can smack them some more with your triple threat of death. So steal some ideas here or something.
But, welcome addition either way.
If you can find a clear definition of (just only!) "reach" in 3.5 that contradicts this, I would be happy to see it.That's impossible. See "Reach", not "natural reach" which is you adding a word that's not there to claim the meaning is different, is a property of a Creature's Size. And a listed characteristic in stat blocks. And has it's own further defined entry under AoOs & combat. And Google (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+reach)/Oxford (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/reach) define reach as both a verb and noun to mean something in arm's length which isn't how you're trying to use the word or claim it means. But you have ignored everyone on GitP that have already told you this and posted it here, receiving the same exact points as before. Clearly there is nothing in the world that you'll accept as a "clear definition".
First the build is optimized around Shivering TouchIf that were the case I'd use a standard Metamagic cost reduction build with Reach/Chained/Widened Shivering Touch in some Arcane Fusions as spell option instead of a dedicated build to deal an even higher amount of Dexterity damage to a 60ft area. Spell Thematics can even make it look like you're tossing a giant ghostly golden hammer just like Diablo too. And you'd still have enough room to gish out so you can run around in armor and even stack on some auras too.
which deals DEX dmg and not HP dmg.I quit playing years ago, did the Diablo 2 hammerdin nerf changed them from dealing unresistant hit point damage (like a scorching scalding touch spell) to preventing their opponent from walking away?
No Save, No SR, just I win & all enemies in range lose.:huh
Spell Resistance: Yes
but it's a build that can still hold water even in most lvl 20 and 20+ campaigns. So there is a niche for it imho.You need to roll a 19 (10% chance) to even affect an equal CRed Pit Fiend and it only works twice per day in a game that wants you to face four Encounters a day.
If you have read the post on gitp than you know how the discussion went. No one could provide a clear definition "reach" from the rules. A single column in a table doesn't explain anything, it's just a value.If you can find a clear definition of (just only!) "reach" in 3.5 that contradicts this, I would be happy to see it.That's impossible. See "Reach", not "natural reach" which is you adding a word that's not there to claim the meaning is different, is a property of a Creature's Size. And a listed characteristic in stat blocks. And has it's own further defined entry under AoOs & combat. And Google (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+reach)/Oxford (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/reach) define reach as both a verb and noun to mean something in arm's length which isn't how you're trying to use the word or claim it means. But you have ignored everyone on GitP that have already told you this and posted it here, receiving the same exact points as before. Clearly there is nothing in the world that you'll accept as a "clear definition".
First the build is optimized around Shivering TouchIf that were the case I'd use a standard Metamagic cost reduction build with Reach/Chained/Widened Shivering Touch in some Arcane Fusions as spell option instead of a dedicated build to deal an even higher amount of Dexterity damage to a 60ft area. Spell Thematics can even make it look like you're tossing a giant ghostly golden hammer just like Diablo too. And you'd still have enough room to gish out so you can run around in armor and even stack on some auras too.
which deals DEX dmg and not HP dmg.I quit playing years ago, did the Diablo 2 hammerdin nerf changed them from dealing unresistant hit point damage (like a scorching scalding touch spell) to preventing their opponent from walking away?
Also there was an officially released Diablo 2 d20 product, you should check it out. We don't get many comments on published books outside of the official ones. Optimizing D2 builds is virtually untouched.I had the box, but most stuff got lost over the years.. But as said, it was just a tiny bit of fluff that inspired me to this build, nothing else.
Oh, somehow I did got the SR part wrong in my mind, sry for that..^^. But since the build is focused on that ability/spell, you should expect items to compensate that at least a bit.No Save, No SR, just I win & all enemies in range lose.:huhQuote from: Shivering TouchSpell Resistance: Yesbut it's a build that can still hold water even in most lvl 20 and 20+ campaigns. So there is a niche for it imho.You need to roll a 19 (10% chance) to even affect an equal CRed Pit Fiend and it only works twice per day in a game that wants you to face four Encounters a day.And even if you overlook SR the one trick it dedicated it's self to struggles for success against some of the lowest monsters out of the ELH, the CR21 Chichimec & CR22 Anaxim, because they both require you to roll higher than average to even deplete their Dexterity.(edit: bad examples, both are immune to ability damage so their high dexterity doesn't matter)
You'll forever hate me over this exchange but stick around. Participating in a forum will do you some good and in a couple years you can come back and revisit it to make it even more powerful than before.I don't hate you. I'll really like to discuss rules and that's what we are doing^^. It's just that neither of us could convince the other so far, but that's life/normal on boards and in reality :)
:ehClearly there is nothing in the world that you'll accept as a "clear definition".If you have read the post on gitp than you know how the discussion went. No one could provide a clear definition "reach" from the rules.
I need either Recaster or Wyrm Wizard to get Shivering Touch on my spell list.18,000gp or less says you can get it on your Duskblade's List without using either of those.
but the amount of cheese/reduction needed won't be allowed on many tables.I just want to lampshade this for a moment, please repeat out loud. "My original assumption was based on redefining reach and overlooking several key details to create, as I previously described it, "just I win & all enemies in range lose" build using several books, a very potent PrC that reduces metamagic costs anyway, and one of the most powerful ability-damage-based spells in the game in a clear combination they were not intended to be."
Reach
Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of
only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks
only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However,
Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons might
threaten more squares than a typical creature. Creatures larger
than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more, so they
threaten all squares within that reach, including diagonal ones.
Creatures smaller than Small typically have a natural reach of
0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. Since
they have no natural reach, such creatures don’t threaten the
squares around them at all. See Size, page 116.
The Rules Compedium has a definition for Reach on pg18 (in the section covering AoOs):QuoteReach
Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of
only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks
only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However,
Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons might
threaten more squares than a typical creature. Creatures larger
than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more, so they
threaten all squares within that reach, including diagonal ones.
Creatures smaller than Small typically have a natural reach of
0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. Since
they have no natural reach, such creatures don’t threaten the
squares around them at all. See Size, page 116.
Spring Attack requires BAB +4, so you can't take it at level 3.
Expanded Knowledge is a [Psionic] feat that learns you a power, not a spell feat for spell-spellers what spell up spells.
Those are two of the shallower flaws; I see the deeper dysfunctions have already been addressed.
"Most creatures" = no strict rule / but doesn't affect the discussed ability anywayActually several creatures have natural reach, and you can get grafts/spells/items/feats to increase it further, and by using that phasing it can cover all exceptions and include yours within it. But the difference between those creatures and your arguments is they have rules stating they can and you're unable to understand the difference because you choose not to. And that's just one of the reasons why you've got three people here, and several others else where, telling you that you're wrong.
But as said, I already have worked for a longer time on this topic and I am very confident with my point of view.Of course, you're a normal human for your generation & age. Just like everyone else.
btw: the intention of the build was a solid duskblade WW build which can hold it's own in most (combat) situation. Sure you can build more powerful builds with full casters and such, but that was not the intention.Yeah just like that. Maybe in a few years you can revisit this. :)
As already said:"Most creatures" = no strict rule / but doesn't affect the discussed ability anywayActually several creatures have natural reach, and you can get grafts/spells/items/feats to increase it further, and by using that phasing it can cover all exceptions and include yours within it. But the difference between those creatures and your arguments is they have rules stating they can and you're unable to understand the difference because you choose not to. And that's just one of the reasons why you've got three people here, and several others else where, telling you that you're wrong.
.., so they
threaten all squares within that reach, including diagonal ones.
If you’re considered armed, you threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack,...